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Thread: production number for 1969

  1. #101
    ++++++++ HS30-H's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kats
    The answer is,HS30-00001 was earlier than HLS30-00003.Why I asked this,I just want to tell all of you HS30-00001 was made in JUL 1969 to cross-reff with my old data. Is not this great,is it!Alan!! HLS30-00002 was also made in JUL but it is earlier than HS30-00001.HLS30-00003 was made in AUG 1969.
    Hello Kats,
    This is excellent information. Thank you very very much indeed.

    I was told in Japan many years ago that 'HS30' RHD 'Datsun 240Z' models were being made from the very earliest days of pre-production preparations ( which always made perfect logical sense to me ), and your newly-uncovered data confirms that fact. Thank you.

    Quote Originally Posted by kats
    Please tell me how everybody thinks about posting a picture of the data sheet.Of cource I wish nobody in Japan(except me) see this thread.If I post a picture,I can show you actual facts but it does have a risk of ALL-ENGINE SHUT DOWN all lights are gone, get into the darkness then we may never get futher information from the factory.
    I will echo what has already been said above, and urge you not to compromise your source just to please us. Your word and assurance ( and explanation for not publishing ) is totally trusted - so please protect the relationship that you are fostering with your source. In the long run, we will all benefit from being patient.

    I quite understand your position. In my research on the factory competition cars I have been lucky enough to meet certain people and be given certain information, documents and photos that can not be published on public forums for fear of alienating and offending the source. So don't be worried Kats - I'm sure that everybody understands.

    A phrase Sir Robert Baden Powell learned from the people of Ghana; "Softly, softly, catchee monkey"............

    Alan T.

  2. #102
    ++++++++ HS30-H's Avatar
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    By the way, the following quotes are taken from the early pages of this thread:

    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Beck
    The Z Cars for Export were Left Hand Drive models - No production Right Hand Drive 240-Z's were "produced" until very late Jan or Feb of 1970. There are no 1969 RHD 240-Z's.
    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Beck
    No Right Hand Drive Datsun 240-Z's were "produced" in 1969.
    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Beck
    The first Right Hand Drive (HS30) 240-Z was produced in late Jan or Feb of 1970.
    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Beck
    Everything about the history of the Z Car seems to prove it was "centered" solely around the USA market.
    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Beck
    The history of the design and development, production and sales of the LHD Z - shows clearly that the "240-Z" is the "Daddy". I don't believe that's a personal "bias" - just a presentation of the facts.
    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Beck
    Yes, the total story of the Z would have to include a short chapter about all the various minor incarnations for nitch markets. However if you think they are "as important", "as significant" as the HLS30 - - then I have to believe you have missed the real "Story Of The Z Car".
    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Beck
    As the thread started with Kat's original post - it covered 1969 production. In that context "E" applied to the HLS30's - If we were talking about 1970 production then "E" would cover both HLS and HS models.
    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Beck
    What I said was the 240-Z was specifically designed for the US market - and every other variation was simply a side benefit to Nissan of no where near the significance in the overall scheme of things.
    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Beck
    The Fairlady Z's are interesting and they allowed Nissan to sell a few more cars in their home market - but your assertion that they were "as important", "as significant" or evenly weighted in the design consideration of the Z - are simply - well - your opinion. However I would suggest that your opinion is not based on any real facts nor sound logic.
    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Beck
    The real story of the Z Car - is carried by the Datsun 240-Z - as specified, as designed, as built for the American market.
    ......... and that's only on this thread - let alone any others.

    Thank you for being such fun to quote, Carl. I had a couple of extra slices of toast with my breakfast this morning.

    Alan T.

  3. #103
    Registered User kats's Avatar
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    Default Today is,

    Thank you Alan,
    I am glad that you enjoyed it very much.To be honest with you,I was not for sure about your saying "1969 RHD 240Z".Everytime I think about the red,very low VIN HS30 we know,with regard your saying,why there were big time differences between HS30-00001 and 00034.The 00034 has many parts which were applied in early to mid 1970.There were only aproximately thirty cars between them,that is why I was not for sure HS30-00001 was made in 1969.

    I think Carl just needs amend his website, just a little work, Alan. Some people may think I am a weathercock,but I do not think I am a kind of man.I just want everybody to enjoy this topic.Hey,today is my Birthday

    I will tell all of you about much detail later,but for now,I just want to put this.
    The data sheet got published date "25th JUN 1969" just a week after when I was born.

    Thank you,

    kats
    Katsuhiko Endo
    1970 DATSUN 240Z
    HLS30-02156 (03/70)
    L24-005562

    1970 FAIRLADY Z432
    PS30-00088 (01/70)
    S20-000884

    1972 DATSUN 240Z
    HLS30-60213 (12/71)
    L24-072419

    JAPAN
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  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by kats
    Thank you Alan,
    I am glad that you enjoyed it very much.To be honest with you,I was not for sure about your saying "1969 RHD 240Z".Everytime I think about the red,very low VIN HS30 we know,with regard your saying,why there were big time differences between HS30-00001 and 00034.The 00034 has many parts which were applied in early to mid 1970.There were only aproximately thirty cars between them,that is why I was not for sure HS30-00001 was made in 1969.
    Hello Kats,

    First of all - very best wishes to you on your birthday ( and its on Father's Day too! ). Many happy returns of the day.



    Regarding HS30-00034 - we already knew roughly when that particular car was made. At least - judging from the parts that were bolted onto the bodyshell - we think we know when the car rolled off the production line. We even know a good deal about HS30-00004 - so the fact that both cars rolled off the production line in calendar year 1970 is not in dispute ( even if that does not prove when their bodyshells were made ). We know that there was a BIG gap in export market HS30 production.

    What has always annoyed / frustrated me is the assumption that this in some way proved that HS30-00001, HS30-00002 & HS30-00003 were also made in 1970. It is somewhat surprising that such assumptions have been allowed to be used as some kind of 'proof' against the integrity of the HS30 export model as part of the original lineup of S30-series Z models at the design, engineering and pre-productionisation stages of the process.

    In short, if even a single HS30 was made so early in the production process, it shows that it must have been of significance to Nissan and must also have been a consideration at the design stages of the S30-series Z. We already know that the RHD domestic models were a significant part of that process - even if Carl Beck urges us to believe that they were insignificant:

    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Beck
    The Fairlady Z's are interesting and they allowed Nissan to sell a few more cars in their home market - but your assertion that they were "as important", "as significant" or evenly weighted in the design consideration of the Z - are simply - well - your opinion. However I would suggest that your opinion is not based on any real facts nor sound logic.
    ..... so proof that an Export market RHD car was also amongst the first cars produced helps us to understand a little more of the overall picture - especially with regard to those design, engineering and productionisation processes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Beck
    I think Carl just needs amend his website, just a little work, Alan.
    In my opinion, he needs to start thinking about amending a little bit more than his website. To actively divide the S30-series Z 'family' of models, and to preach that one of the models completely overshadowed the design and engineering of the others, is divisive and misleading to say the least.

    But I'm sure we will hear the same old stuff repeated, just the same as always.

    Alan T.

  5. #105
    Not enough Zs yet! nwcubsman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kats
    ...snipped....I just want everybody to enjoy this topic.Hey,today is my Birthday

    I will tell all of you about much detail later,but for now,I just want to put this.
    The data sheet got published date "25th JUN 1969" just a week after when I was born.

    Thank you,

    kats
    Kats,
    Happy Birthday to you. Today is Father's Day in the USA, so I also want to wish a happy Father's day to all the dads out there, and to Matsuo san and Katayama san. Father's of the Z.

    Thank you for keeping us up to date with your latest information. I was not a 240Z enthusiat when this topic was begun. I have read it with much delight and consider it a gift to all Z fans worldwide.

    Best Regards,
    Bryan
    ___________________________________________
    12/72 240Z, HLS30139612
    2/73 240Z, HLS30149546
    IZCC #14892

  6. #106
    Registered User kats's Avatar
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    Default All first cars

    Thank you Alan,Bryan.
    And thank you everyone who posted here.Also who are watching here.

    The data sheet comes with a supplement.There is a figure showing where the VIN shold be stamped on the firewall.It said 330mm to the LEFT from the datum line(center of coronal plane) for S30,PS30,HS30.Then 350mm to the RIGHT for HLS30.For all of them,VIN number should be 5 numbers,like S30-XXXXX and its width including prefix should be 130mm. I measured mine,yes, approximatetly 350mm,but the width is only 75mm anyway.

    One thing is interesting,all the first car(S30-00001,HLS30-00001,PS30-00001,HS30-00001) was born to be a test running car,the sheet says.
    At this point on 25th JUN 1969,the sheet says only 3 cars rolled out from the factory,(so cross-reff with another data,we can easily find the other cars were still on the assembly line).But there is a assignment of duty for each car, which should surposed to be used for registration/ for press/for an examine of the factory/e.t.c. Totally there are 14 cars listed on the sheet.

    There is a question for you,

    #1 what are those car's VIN?what is a sequencial order of 14 cars?(I say again there might be a difference between the VIN and the results of roll out order.But the factory set the sequencial order for those 14 cars anyway.)

    If you nail it down,I will give you my NOS 1969-1972 rally-clock.

    kats
    Last edited by kats; 06-19-2006 at 07:03 AM.
    Katsuhiko Endo
    1970 DATSUN 240Z
    HLS30-02156 (03/70)
    L24-005562

    1970 FAIRLADY Z432
    PS30-00088 (01/70)
    S20-000884

    1972 DATSUN 240Z
    HLS30-60213 (12/71)
    L24-072419

    JAPAN
    Welcome to my web site,
    http://www.geocities.jp/datsunz903

  7. #107
    Her Majesty the 26th 26th-Z's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kats
    The data sheet comes with a supplement.There is a figure showing where the VIN shold be stamped on the firewall.It said 330mm to the right from the datum line(center of coronal plane) for S30,PS30,HS30.Then 350mm to the right for HLS30.For all of them,VIN number should be 5 numbers,like S30-XXXXX and its width including prefix is 130mm.I measured mine,yes, approximatetly 350mm,but the width is only 75mm anyway.
    kats
    Hey! Happy Birthday, Kats!

    Does this information suggest that the VIN was stamped by hand and not automated after the chassis was assembled? Or, could this indicate that the firewall metal was stamped individually prior to attachment? Very interesting a spec would be made to the exact location of the VIN.

    So you have records of the first 14 cars? Very nice!
    Enjoy the Ride
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  8. #108
    Registered User kats's Avatar
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    Default I corrected spell

    Good afternoon Chris,
    Thank you!!please nail it down and get the NOS rally clock from me.
    I made a big mistake about LEFT and RIGHT.I could not make it before you quote my last post.
    330mm to the LEFT,350mm to the RIGHT.

    Yes,14 cars with each duty and belongs to what section and seaquencial order for them.Remember,there are 4 kinds of Zs.S30,HLS30,PS30,HS30.

    kats
    Katsuhiko Endo
    1970 DATSUN 240Z
    HLS30-02156 (03/70)
    L24-005562

    1970 FAIRLADY Z432
    PS30-00088 (01/70)
    S20-000884

    1972 DATSUN 240Z
    HLS30-60213 (12/71)
    L24-072419

    JAPAN
    Welcome to my web site,
    http://www.geocities.jp/datsunz903

  9. #109
    ++++++++ HS30-H's Avatar
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    Hello Kats,
    I'm enjoying the way that you are presenting this new information. The specifications for the VIN / serial number stamping are fascinating.

    Quote Originally Posted by kats
    There is a question for you,

    #1 what are those car's VIN?what is a sequencial order of 14 cars?(I say again there might be a difference between the VIN and the results of roll out order.But the factory set the sequencial order for those 14 cars anyway.)

    If you nail it down,I will give you my NOS 1969-1972rally-clock.
    I'm not very good at winning things, but the sequence order fascinates me - so I'll give it a shot and perhaps make a fool of myself :

    Here's my *guess*:

    May 1969 - total 2 cars:
    1 = *S30-00001
    2 = *HLS30-00001

    June 1969 - total 1 car:
    3 = *PS30-00001

    July 1969 - total 4 cars:
    4 = *S30-00002
    5 = *HLS30-00002
    6 = *HS30-00001
    7 = *PS30-00002

    August 1969 - total 7 cars:
    8 = *S30-00003
    9 = *HLS30-00003
    10 = *PS30-00003
    11 = *S30-00004
    12 = *PS30-00004
    13 = *S30-00005
    14 = *PS30-00005


    Probably way off?

    Alan T.

  10. #110
    Registered User sjcurtis's Avatar
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    Smile Late 69 production

    This is one amazing thread. Seeing the last imput by HS30H, seems like a very plausable production run. Given this could be a probable, my fasination is for the position of the next HS30-, HS30-00003 are there any thoughts.

    cheers

    Steve

  11. #111
    Her Majesty the 26th 26th-Z's Avatar
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    Kats'

    Your very first thread indicates that the 14th and 15th cars manufactured were "Canada" cars. Then you list how many cars - export and domestic - were made during each month. I don't believe Nissan made PS30s very quickly and suspect they made more S30 model variants to complete their own "domestic" line-up for show and testing. I also believe that Nissan was in the practice of making cars in pairs - two identical cars at a time.

    Thanks Alan for taking the lead on this quiz. Here are my thoughts:

    May 1969 - total 2 cars - one domestic, one export:
    1 = S30-00001
    2 = HLS30-00001

    June 1969 - total 1 car - domestic:
    3 = PS30-00001

    July 1969 - total 4 cars - two domestic, two export:
    4 = HS30-00001
    5 = S30-00002
    6 = S30-00003
    7 = HLS30-00002

    August 1969 - total 7 cars:
    8 = S30-00003
    9 = S30-00004
    10 = PS30-00003
    11 = PS30-00004
    12 = S30-00005
    13 = S30-00006
    14 = HLS30-00003
    Enjoy the Ride
    HLS30-00026
    HLS30-00027
    http://home.earthlink.net/~cwenzel/index.html
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  12. #112
    ++++++++ HS30-H's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 26th-Z
    I don't believe Nissan made PS30s very quickly and suspect they made more S30 model variants to complete their own "domestic" line-up for show and testing. I also believe that Nissan was in the practice of making cars in pairs - two identical cars at a time.

    Thanks Alan for taking the lead on this quiz.
    I'm bracing myself for the unexpected. There's a good chance that the order might not have been all that logical. I kind of like your attempt more than I like mine now - but we are probably both wrong ( ? ).......

    When I was mulling over the possible order of that first 14, I tried to think what the situation would have been like within the different 'teams' of engineers, bean counters and management staff with regard to getting what they wanted. If I were there at the time, I'd be lobbying for my personal area of responsibility to be taken into account - so I'd want input on how certain things were done, and I'd want to know what 'rival' sections were doing that would affect me and my section doing our job properly. I imagined a kind of Tug-O-War between different individuals and sections trying to get what they wanted. Even the publicity and advertising guys would be wanting to get hold of cars to photograph and play with. For sure the competitions departments at Oppama and Omori would be in a big hurry to get their first guinea pigs to experiment on, and would be making suggestions and stipulations for what they wanted. Some kind of pecking order would have come into play.

    And one thing keeps popping into my head; The sheer lack of time between these very first cars being made in dribs and drabs from May until the factory let the Japanese motoring press loose on complete 'production' cars in October, and debuted the cars for sales orders at the Tokyo Auto Show in November. No wonder they needed to make a few design and engineering modifications - the customers were doing most of the testing!

    Alan T.

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    Her Majesty the 26th 26th-Z's Avatar
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    I wonderd about those things also, Alan. They made one of each in the begining. Logical, but then what? I assumed the 14th car was a Canada car from what Kats said at the begining ot this thread. The 14th and 15th were Canada cars, supposedly. Then I have noticed that both the Canada cars were silver. 26th and 27th are green. 40th and 42nd are both gold. So I imagined that the construction teams began making cars in pairs or mutiples so as to establish construction proceedure. But I cannot account for the various fitment of engines and I imagine that would have made the greatest impact.

    How many guesses do I get, Kats?
    Enjoy the Ride
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    HLS30-00027
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  14. #114
    Registered User daddz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 26th-Z
    I wonderd about those things also, Alan. They made one of each in the begining. Logical, but then what? I assumed the 14th car was a Canada car from what Kats said at the begining ot this thread. The 14th and 15th were Canada cars, supposedly. Then I have noticed that both the Canada cars were silver. 26th and 27th are green. 40th and 42nd are both gold. So I imagined that the construction teams began making cars in pairs or mutiples so as to establish construction proceedure. But I cannot account for the various fitment of engines and I imagine that would have made the greatest impact.

    How many guesses do I get, Kats?
    Chris,
    This peaks my interest as I have always imagined a block of similar colored cars rolling off of the assembly line together and being reunited in just the way you have accomplished with 26 and 27. I also tend to imagine with regard to later S31 production that larger blocks of between five and ten were constructed with the same color combination? My only proof thus far is HLS30437667 and HLS30437661 both finished in 611 paint code. It would be wonderful to find notations with regard to color in the data that kats has ben able to obtain.
    http://s205.photobucket.com/albums/bb203/daddsun/

    http://www.classiczcars.com/photopos...00&ppuser=3015
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    78 280Z HLS30456240
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  15. #115
    Registered User kats's Avatar
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    Default Here is an answer

    Hello everyone,
    I am very sorry for kept you waiting.Now I post an answer of the question.
    -----------------------------------------------------------

    May 1969 - total 2 cars - one domestic, one export:
    1 = S30-00001 (Factory prototype 1)
    2 = HLS30-00001 (Factory prototype 2)

    June 1969 - total 1 car - domestic:
    3 = PS30-00001 (Factory prototype 3)

    July 1969 - total 4 cars - two domestic, two export:
    4 = HS30-00002 (Primary Production prototype 1)
    5 = S30-00002 (Primary Production prototype 2)
    6 = PS30-00002 (Primary Production prototype 3)
    7 = HS30-00001 (Primary Production prototype 4)

    August 1969 - total 7 cars:
    8 = S30-00003 (Primary Production prototype 5)
    9 = S30-00004 (Primary Production prototype 6)
    10 = S30-00005 (Primary Production prototype 7)
    11 = PS30-00003 (Primary Production prototype 8)
    12 = HLS30-00003 (Primary Production prototype 9)
    13 = S30-00006 (Primary Production prototype 10)
    14 = PS30-00004 (Primary Production prototype 11)
    ----------------------------------------------------
    So,Alan and Chris, both of you were very close!!I was very surprised about your logical imagination.
    Alan and Chris can share the rally clock half each!!Sorry I only have one clock.

    I was not enough for the explanation about Factory prototype and Production prototype.The data shet said,The First 3 cars were Factory prototype and they HAVE serial(VIN) number.Primary Production prototype started from No.1 ~ was folloing their serial(VIN) number from the Factory prototype.
    It siad,"After these cars,there will be Secondary Production prototype".
    So,I think from 15th car,they must be Secondary Production prototype and we do not know which car was following,DOMES or EXPORT.

    Anyway,according to Jan 1970 issued Japanese car magazine,it said there were 33 cars for Primary and Secondary production prototype.So,we can do 33 minus 11 = 22 cars for the Secondary production prototype.

    I review the magazine today with the data I have got,I found the mgazine said some interesting things.

    "Totaly 61 cars were prototypes,
    25 cars were Plan-Design prototype for stage 1/2/3(I think NO- VIN)
    3 cars were Factory prototype for 3 types(did not say S30 or HS or..)
    33 cars were Primary/Secondary production prototype"

    Thank you,

    kats
    Katsuhiko Endo
    1970 DATSUN 240Z
    HLS30-02156 (03/70)
    L24-005562

    1970 FAIRLADY Z432
    PS30-00088 (01/70)
    S20-000884

    1972 DATSUN 240Z
    HLS30-60213 (12/71)
    L24-072419

    JAPAN
    Welcome to my web site,
    http://www.geocities.jp/datsunz903

  16. #116
    Hakosuka sakijo's Avatar
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    Default

    Kats:

    Any reason why HS30-00002 was built before HS30-00001?
    Miles

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  17. #117
    Registered User kats's Avatar
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    Thank you sakijo,
    I was stupid making a careless mistake.Here is correct one,

    -----------------------------------------------------

    May 1969 - total 2 cars - one domestic, one export:
    1 = S30-00001 (Factory prototype 1)
    2 = HLS30-00001 (Factory prototype 2)

    June 1969 - total 1 car - domestic:
    3 = PS30-00001 (Factory prototype 3)

    July 1969 - total 4 cars - two domestic, two export:
    4 = HLS30-00002 (Primary Production prototype 1)
    5 = S30-00002 (Primary Production prototype 2)
    6 = PS30-00002 (Primary Production prototype 3)
    7 = HS30-00001 (Primary Production prototype 4)

    August 1969 - total 7 cars:
    8 = S30-00003 (Primary Production prototype 5)
    9 = S30-00004 (Primary Production prototype 6)
    10 = S30-00005 (Primary Production prototype 7)
    11 = PS30-00003 (Primary Production prototype 8)
    12 = HLS30-00003 (Primary Production prototype 9)
    13 = S30-00006 (Primary Production prototype 10)
    14 = PS30-00004 (Primary Production prototype 11)
    --------------------------------------------------------
    And I am still feeling some uneasy to discrib like "Primary" and "Secondy".To read Japanese words from the data sheet,I think it only means "first groupe" and "second groupe".So,please think very simple about it,there might be no special meanings for them.

    Alan is the best man to interprit these factory terminology.

    kats
    Katsuhiko Endo
    1970 DATSUN 240Z
    HLS30-02156 (03/70)
    L24-005562

    1970 FAIRLADY Z432
    PS30-00088 (01/70)
    S20-000884

    1972 DATSUN 240Z
    HLS30-60213 (12/71)
    L24-072419

    JAPAN
    Welcome to my web site,
    http://www.geocities.jp/datsunz903

  18. #118
    Her Majesty the 26th 26th-Z's Avatar
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    Hi Kats!

    Great information and most relevant to the conversation about S30-00002. I think it would be best to describe the factory prototype cars as those constructed to test the production process and the primary production cars as those intended to display and road test. Just think of this first family of the Z car! The very first generation!
    Enjoy the Ride
    HLS30-00026
    HLS30-00027
    http://home.earthlink.net/~cwenzel/index.html
    Go Gators
    Go Butler Bulldogs

  19. #119
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    Default Why only a few HS30s were made in 1969?

    Hi,

    I must organize threads which are oriented from me, following post is excerpt
    from "Datsun 240z vs Fairlady-z432" #212 .

    This scan tells us very interesting informations.Each car has each place(department) to belong and has subject to be used.

    1 = S30-00001 Nissan Shatai (test drive)
    2 = HLS30-00001 Q21 (production factory study)
    3 = PS30-00001 Nissan Shatai (test drive)
    4 = HLS30-00002 Nissan Shatai (test drive)
    5 = S30-00002 Nissan Shatai (test drive)
    6 = PS30-00002 K11 (registration)
    7 = HS30-00001 Nissan Shatai (test drive)
    8 = S30-00003 K11 (registration)
    9 = S30-00004 F45 (K31 spare)
    10 = S30-00005 F45 (K31 spare)
    11 = PS30-00003 F45 (K31 spare)
    12 = HLS30-00003 E81 (service; service manual? kats)
    13 = S30-00006 F45 (for press/media)
    14 = PS30-00004 F45 (K31 spare)

    This report is dated 25th Jun 1969.

    kats
    -------------------------------------------------------------

    And today I want to tell you is, we will be able to see new reports about developing S30 in early 1970 from a gentleman who was involved the test , he was a member of a groupe of aerodynamics analysis.

    I can not show them right now, but from what he is saying about Euro car,
    that is HLS30Q , Nissan was knowing Euro car needs to be more "sporty and stable in high speed driving" already.

    So the project "HLS30Q high speed stability development" started from Feb 1970 ended at 27th Mar 1971.
    And this report was made by department "K42" , now we learned K42 is a groupe of aerodynamics analysis.
    After this test, Euro car got front and rear spoilers and stiff springs and shocks e.t.c.

    To think about production volume in 1969, I think HLS30Q and HS30 were very few produced.I guess this happned because of not only Mr.Katayama wanted 240Z for his territory so strongly but also Nissan wanted to sell these(Euro) cars after the car had tested well and ready for Euro customer.

    Why Nissan did (could) not prepare for all the territory before biggining the production ? I think Nissan just did not have enough engineers and test crews!!

    kats
    Last edited by kats; 12-15-2008 at 06:35 PM.
    Katsuhiko Endo
    1970 DATSUN 240Z
    HLS30-02156 (03/70)
    L24-005562

    1970 FAIRLADY Z432
    PS30-00088 (01/70)
    S20-000884

    1972 DATSUN 240Z
    HLS30-60213 (12/71)
    L24-072419

    JAPAN
    Welcome to my web site,
    http://www.geocities.jp/datsunz903

  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by kats View Post
    And today I want to tell you is, we will be able to see new reports about developing S30 in early 1970 from a gentleman who was involved the test , he was a member of a groupe of aerodynamics analysis.

    I can not show them right now, but from what he is saying about Euro car,
    that is HLS30Q , Nissan was knowing Euro car needs to be more "sporty and stable in high speed driving" already.
    Hi Kats,
    Is the gentleman you mention Mr Michio TAKEI?

    I am certainly looking forward to your posts.

    Quote Originally Posted by kats
    To think about production volume in 1969, I think HLS30Q and HS30 were very few produced.I guess this happned because of not only Mr.Katayama wanted 240Z for his territory so strongly but also Nissan wanted to sell these(Euro) cars after the car had tested well and ready for Euro customer.
    One of the problems that caused unexpected delays was in connection with European lighting regulations. The front turn signals / sidelights of the first two HS30s imported to the UK were found to be lower than the new regulations allowed, and Nissan were forced to reposition the indicator lamp units from another model onto the top of the front bumper for subsequent imports - which would have left a hole in the quarter valances. New - blanked off - quarter valances had to be designed and manufactured. The headlamps too were found to be illegal, and new units incorporating a 'side-light' bulb - and the wiring to suit - had to be fitted.

    I have been told that communication problems between the UK franchise holders 'Datsun UK Ltd' and Nissan in Japan were at least partly to blame for the mistakes........



    Alan T.

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    Hi

    Kats, you always bring great matters to discuss, and now this part is interesting, because I have a Euro 240z, with all the spoilers and specifications from factory and that interests me.

    I hope you can put more information soon...



    ALAN, as you know my car has the normal (US and Japan) front turn assemblied in blank colour, not orange, as it is a 1971 and all the others cars that came to Portugal has that 2 types that you mention...
    I think you know the story, but correct me if iam wrong, i was told that Entreposto in Portugal ordered near 120 240z cars and this was the first and the last shippment of cars to here.

    Here i can see that with that shippment, were delivery cars with all diferents types of front turn assemblies, the US/japan and the Euro/UK type, and my questions are

    1 - Why they delivery cars with the 2 types of turn assemblies in Portugal, knowing the european laws?

    2 - Which production date forward Nissan change them?

    Now, another question that i think its interesting.

    3 - Where could be Portuguese cars located, as they were different from anyother market, because all of them received the magnesium 432 wheels that were standard here.
    Does they were packing apart, with the destination of Portugal??

    Hope i can have answer for that

    Filipe
    Last edited by FilipeA; 12-17-2008 at 04:17 PM.

    Z is the best

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    Quote Originally Posted by FilipeA View Post
    ALAN, as you know my car has the normal (US and Japan) front turn assemblied in blank colour, not orange, as it is a 1971 and all the others cars that came to Portugal has that 2 types that you mention...
    I think you know the story, but correct me if iam wrong, i was told that Entreposto in Portugal ordered near 120 240z cars and this was the first and the last shippment of cars to here.

    Here i can see that with that shippment, were delivery cars with all diferents types of front turn assemblies, the US/japan and the Euro/UK type, and my questions are

    1 - Why they delivery cars with the 2 types of turn assemblies in Portugal, knowing the european laws?

    2 - Which production date forward Nissan change them?

    Now, another question that i think its interesting.

    3 - Where could be Portuguese cars located, as they were different from anyother market, because all of them received the magnesium 432 wheels that were standard here.
    Does they were packing apart, with the destination of Portugal??

    Filipe,
    I'll try to answer some of your questions as best I can, but to be honest you stand a far better chance of getting closer to the full story yourself if you research it locally. I think if you are persistent with former ( and current? ) employees of Entreposto, you may well find out exactly what happened, and why........

    But here are my shots anyway:

    1. There's always the chance that minor differences in specs were due to Force Majeure rather than any kind of strictly-enforced plan. My guess is that the lighting differences in the Portuguese cars could well have been due to lack of certain parts being ready in time for shipment schedule, or even simple mistakes. I can imagine that the 'Option' clear indicator lenses might well have been in short supply at certain times if they were made in the same injection moulds as the amber units.

    2. No idea on dates specific to the Portuguese cars I'm afraid, and the 'R-DRIVE' parts catalogs ( which - strangely - supposedly cover all the UK, Australian & 'European' market cars ) do not mention an 'Applied From' date for the clear indicator lenses. However, they do give the following:

    *26120-E4300 ASSY-LAMP PARKING RH UNCOLOR, OP, UP TO 07-73.
    *26125-E4300 ASSY-LAMP PARKING LH UNCOLOR, OP, UP TO 07-73.

    There are also separate part numbers for the 'Uncolor' ( clear ) lenses on their own, and these too mention that they are 'OP' ( optional ) parts.

    3. I don't know about anybody else, but to me the Portuguese market cars have always seemed to be something of a cut above most other LHD and RHD 'Export' models of S30-series Z. I think Entreposto - with their strong ties to Nissan, and their foothold in some of the emerging African markets which were so important to Nissan - made sure that the HLS30s they imported were well worth what their customers were being asked to pay. They knew what was available parts-wise in Japan, and they added quite a lot to the cars to make them a little bit more special.

    I'm quite sure that these cars were manufactured expressly for Entreposto and the Portuguese market, and I would have thought - this just a guess - that they entered Europe via car carrier ships that stopped in north Africa or Portugal itself rather than en-route to the normal European ports in Holland, Belgium and UK.

    If you want to get deeper into this Filipe, you have a good opportunity and every possibility to find answers to your questions locally. One of the people you might try asking is Mr Jose Megre, as I know he was well connected at Nissan during the period we are talking about and he might be able to tell you some interesting stories.

    Did you find that your car had any special hand-written markings on it when you originally took it apart? I'm particularly interested to know what - if anything - was chalked onto the underside of the glovebox lining, or written on the steering column support bracket. Did you find anything?

    The topic of the Portuguese market cars would justify a thread of it's own.


    Alan T.

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    Alan,
    It is logical the the "niche markets" being RH drive would precede a LH model given that Japan is RH drive.

    I guess that sort of reality is not going to be easily digested & further debate will continue.

    It was interesting to read the combined comments you posted from our friends in the US of A - and I would be so bold as to suggest it should provoke another case of "shoe throwing" from the RH to LH

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    Hi Alan

    Yes!!! I found somekind of letter in steering column support bracket, it menas that it is written in the dash support. I will try to put pictures here as soon possible.

    Filipe A

    Z is the best

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    Default

    I love reading this thread - but it does make me think that I should never have sold HS30-00016. It was very rusty but I could have placed it in storage and restored it - however the guy I sold it to was going to do that.

    Interesting is that the HS30-00016 had date stamps that showed 1970 ie in the glove box was the original key number tag with a date stamp 1970, the seat belts were 1970 and even the plugs leads on the car (which needed to be changed, but I kept the original ones due to this fact) had a 1970 date on them.

    Maybe I should track down the car and see if I can purchase it back.

    Re Zed74 shoe throwing comment - re minds me of when I first registered said HS30-00016 on a website back all those 14+ years ago (IZCC I think and I was member 500+ish). I got an email back tell me not possible as HLS30-00016 was in the USA and this person told me that my car must be a fake as Nissan used the same numbering for both LH and RH cars. I did try and point out that I could also proof a few other numbers listed as HLS30 matched HS30 numbers so this person then said maybe they were wrong about the single numbering system. At the time that put me off visiting website to improve my knowledge of these cars.

    I am pleased that Kats has been kind enough to
    1. Find this info out
    2. Share this info with us all

    Also thanks to the others that have added good info/debate to this thread - I don't visit CZCC as often as I should

    I am sure we are all much better off knowing this info (well those interested in the history of these lovely Japanese designed/assembled/manufactured cars)
    Last edited by NZeder; 12-23-2008 at 02:08 PM.
    76 RS30 260z 改RB26 N/A 霞
    Previous
    70 HS30-00016 240z
    72 HS30 240z L型 2.8
    71 HS30 240z L型改3.2
    79 HS130 280zx
    82 HS130 280zx T top
    2x 73 KP710 160JSSS
    74 KB210 120Y Coupe
    71 510 1600 Deluxe

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    Quote Originally Posted by NZeder View Post

    Re Zed74 shoe throwing comment - re minds me of when I first registered said HS30-00016 on a website back all those 14+ years ago (IZCC I think and I was member 500+ish).
    Hi Mike:
    Your are IZCC #594
    You first registered HS30 00016 16 March 1997

    When you first registered it - as I recall, you registered it on the HLS30 register. I replied and ask if it was in fact HS30 00016 - which you then confirmed.

    Quote Originally Posted by NZeder View Post
    I got an email back tell me not possible as HLS30-00016 was in the USA and this person told me that my car must be a fake as Nissan used the same numbering for both LH and RH cars. I did try and point out that I could also proof a few other numbers listed as HLS30 matched HS30 numbers so this person then said maybe they were wrong about the single numbering system. At the time that put me off visiting website to improve my knowledge of these cars.
    I believe it is possible that you are confusing the Web Site, ie. the Z Car Home Page where the "Registers" are maintained, with the e-mail based Z Car Discussion group, ie. the Z Car List.

    Prior to registering HS30-00016 in March of 1997, In a response to my Annual Up-date to the "Z Car List", on tracking the 69 Production 240-Z's in Nov. of 1995 - you Posted the Following to the Z Car List.

    = = = = =
    From: "Lucas, Mike" mike.lucas@fernz.com
    To: Z Car List z-car@taex001.tamu.edu
    Date: Thu, Nov 20, 1995 12:55 PM
    Subject: {z} Re: 240Z Production numbers


    I am a little confused about the production number of the 240Z. I own a RHD
    240Z #00016 yet I have been told by Carl Beck that there is a LHD 240Z
    #00016 in the U.S.A

    According to the original Z reference manual (a felloe Z member has) 1974
    version. The production of Z were as follows

    240Z 2 Seater Model HS30 (A) (U) (Q)
    Oct 69-May 71 00003-00500
    Jan 71-Aug 71 00501-01500 <- (I suspect Jan should read Jun?)
    Sept 71-Jun 72 01501-14000
    July 72-July 73 14001-101537

    F.Y.I we also have the following car here in NZ
    my car is the earliest at
    HS30-00016='70 (according to NISSAN Japan I mailed their web site for the
    info) engine L24-006777

    HS30-00249='70 engine L24-?????? owner believes it was original an AUTO but
    who can tell it had a V8 when he got it

    HS30-00250='70 engine L24-??????
    HS30-00251='70 engine L24-??????
    HS30-01047='71 engine L24-?????? original Auto model.
    HS30-01259='71 engine L24-054810


    According to the production figures there was only 155,000 and something Z
    made.
    Yet I have been lead to believe that according U.S.A records there was
    179000 and something.

    This original parts reference manual (used to obtain the above production
    numbers) only mentions HS30 (A) (U) (Q) not the HLS30
    Can anyone confirm that LHD and RHD Z had different VIN #.

    Mike Lucas
    IZCC #594
    240Z #00016, '77260Z

    = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

    Back in 95 - I responded that at one time we (Eric Sheeler/Stan Beckman/James Irvine et al, that had started the tracking effort to locate 69 production cars) thought that the Right and Left Hand 240Z's did share the same series numbers - but that we had dispelled that, as well as the fact that none of the 240-Z's sold in Australia had been 1969 production cars, as had been widely published there.

    I don't know who on the Z Car List at the time would have told you your car was a fake - I can't find a Public Post in my archives to that effect. Possible it was sent directly to you - off list. (you didn't happen to keep it did you?).

    Nonetheless, it would seem from your Post in 1995 that you were surprised to hear that the Right and Left hand 240Z's used individualy series numbers, and were asking the list for verification.

    The last report we had from you was in 1999 - when you reported selling to to Peter Campbell in Au.

    FWIW,
    Carl B.

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    Thanks for clearing that up and I recall I was asking the list to clear up the LHD and RHD number out as someone told me I could not possible have HS30-00016, I can't recall if it was via a website, email, list or the phone, or even a local zclub member who did not know about the multiply number scheme.

    Peter still owns the car and I have not heard if he has started the restoration of the car.

    While on the topic of early cars - last time I heard from Peter he said he had also located HS30-00013 or HS30-00015 in Australia (I can't recall if was 13 or 15) but he told me it was the sister car to 16 as they were same original colour.

    HS30-00016 was one of the zed's I have owned that I did not take any photos of as I did not own a camera back then - did not own much infact that is why I sold the car to go toward the deposit on my first house.

    No I didn't keep the email as I left that place of work in 98 so all my mail went with it. Never mind that was a long time ago anyway and we have all learnt a lot more about these cars since. Now that you mention it I would have lost the email I got from Japan about the production of HS30-00016 too

    Cheers
    Mike
    Last edited by NZeder; 12-24-2008 at 12:27 AM.
    76 RS30 260z 改RB26 N/A 霞
    Previous
    70 HS30-00016 240z
    72 HS30 240z L型 2.8
    71 HS30 240z L型改3.2
    79 HS130 280zx
    82 HS130 280zx T top
    2x 73 KP710 160JSSS
    74 KB210 120Y Coupe
    71 510 1600 Deluxe

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    Hi Alan

    Regarding your question about the Japanese letterring, here is what i found in my dashboard after i changed for a new one.

    I don`t know what that means, and it`s right in red colour.

    See pictures
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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    Z is the best

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    More info for this thread:

    From Gab Ringuette, a club member who owned VIN48


    Thought I'd join in. While restoring #48, I actually met an ex Nissan (Datsun) plant worker who moved to Canada years ago and was living in Victoria at the time. He was on the floor in the early seventies and confirmed the stories on how cars that were noted to have a defect would get pushed aside for rectification at a later date. There were no sophisticated tracking system in place to later find out what happened to a certain car either. The late sixties/early seventies were extremely hectic as he recalled and said the priority was getting cars out the door to the waiting masses in NA.
    I believe mine was almost completely assembled when it was put aside for a few months as it has all the early features of a '69 car as well as a block number that puts it in line with the other cars produced in late Oct early Nov. Another club member from out West also had an anomaly model with VIN #300 and a production date of 02/70, go figure!
    There is scarcely anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse, and sell a little more cheaply.
    The person who buys on price alone is this man's lawful prey.


    John Ruskin (1819 - 1900)



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