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Thread: Thinking of installing an 81-83 5 speed

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    CraZZZy about Z's DatsunZsRule's Avatar
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    Default Thinking of installing an 81-83 5 speed

    Hello all,

    I'm considering doing the "Upgrade" to an 81-83 ZX Close Ratio transmission. I have the orig. 1977 5 speed now. It won't be till the weather gets nice again. I live in MN. so I still have her in storage right now.

    I know that they are a direct bolt in and that I'll have to use the orig. '77 shift lever but I just thought I'd ask those of you that have already done this if you got any pointers or tips??? Also do any of you have any good leads on where to purchase them??

    Thanks
    Jared (1977 280Z - SOLD )

    "Any car can get you where you need to go. A special car gets you there with a smile on your face"

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    another classic car guy EricB's Avatar
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    Junkyard junkyard junkyard...
    Can't beat 'em at $75-150 depending on where you go and availability.
    Of course you can't easily tell their condition.

    On the other hand you might get real lucky and pull what turns out to be a dog leg "racing" tranny - it still happens occasionally. Happened to a friend of mine a couple months ago... lucky b&$#ard...

    Full rebuild I've been quoted by some reputable folks several on here have already used is in the $650 neighborhood + shipping. But then again... Once you've gone through it there's no reason it shouldn't last a LONG time... Consider it an investment.

    Tips? Victor L can do the job in no time flat with access to a vehicle lift.
    If you're like the rest of us I HIGHLY recommend a tranny jack - got mine off eBay for $50 and what a time saver.

    Other than replacing the obvious like clutch/throwout bearing/etc while you're down there you're right - it's a direct swap. Loc-tite on the driveshaft bolts... Polyurethane mounts for the tranny while you're at it? etc... basics...

    Have fun,

    -e

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    CraZZZy about Z's DatsunZsRule's Avatar
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    Agreed. Gotta have a tranny Jack I plan to drop out the original and install the fresh rebuilt 81-83 myself obviously. However, I do plan on having someone rebuilding it for me so I shouldn't have to worry about clutch,throwout bearing etc. I already got all poly bushings on my Z so thats done

    Thanks ErickB
    Jared (1977 280Z - SOLD )

    "Any car can get you where you need to go. A special car gets you there with a smile on your face"

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    I'm here for the ZZZ's Dans240z's Avatar
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    Jared, what are the throws like on the transmission you have now? Are they pretty long? Did all the zx cars have this transmission? I am just wondering because my project car has long throws, but it is from an 83, So shouldent the throws be shorter?
    Dan Wetmore

    1972 HLS30-57530
    1973 HLS30-121867 project

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    zguitar71 zguitar71's Avatar
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    I got mine from the Zbarn. It was pricey ($600) but it has all new internals. It was entirely rebuilt before I purchased it. He will sell you a used one too for a lot less. I just wanted a "new" one.
    Did I hit that cone?
    1/71 series II 240z, 920 gold (AKA baby poo yellow, but I love it anyway)
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    of the Silver Shield Soc. dogma420's Avatar
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    believe it or not, the ZX 5 speed has longer throws than the 77-78 5 speed. That's the main reason I got the 77-78 5 speed, because the throws are shorter.
    --Dave aka Dogma420 My Gallery
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    zguitar71 zguitar71's Avatar
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    There is not a kit for sale (that I can find) to shorten the throws for the 81-83 5 speed either. The ratio seperation is better and the 5th gear is stronger for the 81-83 (close ratio) 5 speed which is the reason I went with the close ratio. The throws are not that bad ,IMO, anyway. Of course I had a `90 Saab 900 before the Z, they have long, sloppy, vauge throws, this trans feels great compared to it.

    A short throw could be made with the shifter from a later 4 speed, some measurements and a drill press. There is room to put holes on the shifter tabs above the holes from the factory. The late 4 speed shifte lever has a longer distance from the bottom to the mounting hole that looks to line up where new holes could be drilled on the shifter tabs and still have enough metal around the holes for strength.
    Last edited by zguitar71; 03-25-2005 at 05:59 AM.
    Did I hit that cone?
    1/71 series II 240z, 920 gold (AKA baby poo yellow, but I love it anyway)
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    I'm here for the ZZZ's Dans240z's Avatar
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    I dont mind long throws if they feel solid and precise. But thats what I thought, the throws are longer on the 81-83 cars.

    There is no short throw shifter for 81-83 transmissions? I thought MSA offered one.
    Dan Wetmore

    1972 HLS30-57530
    1973 HLS30-121867 project

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    of the Silver Shield Soc. dogma420's Avatar
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    MSA does offer one, but it doesn't make it as short as if you installed it on a 77-78 5 speed....I installed it on mine, its very short...and if you had any machine exp. you could make this kit yourself. it just raises the pivot points where the shifter bolts through, so the pivot is higher (and movement is shorter)...I'm sure you could get it to be much shorter by making one.
    --Dave aka Dogma420 My Gallery
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    zguitar71 zguitar71's Avatar
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    The throws do feel precise and positive on the trans I have. I'm sure having a rebuilt one helps out in that area. I only have 500 miles on it. I did not realize the MSA one could be put on the new 5 speeds.
    Last edited by zguitar71; 03-25-2005 at 06:29 AM.
    Did I hit that cone?
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    of the Silver Shield Soc. dogma420's Avatar
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    Yes, MSA has 3 versions, 1 for the early 4 speed, one for the 77-78 5 speed, and one for the later 5 speed to 1983. Its right in their catalog. It even says that the later 5 speed throws are longer than the earlier one.

    I personally debated the early vs. later 5 speed and I am happy with the earlier one....with the exception of possibly problems down the road with the 5th and reverse on the same leg....its exactly like my 4 speed was, just it has a 5th gear now. Instead of 4400 rpm at 70 mph, I get 3200 at 70 mph, which is what I was looking for on those drives to the beach!

    I really have to recommend the upgrade to a 5 speed, if for nothing else, the synchros are just kick butt compared to my stock original 4 speed. The shifts are so much sharper and precise, one of the few upgrades I've done, and I'd recommend it for anyone that has a 240z with the 4 speed. The driving experience couldn't be better.

    Errr, does anyone want to buy my 4 speed tranny? heh.
    --Dave aka Dogma420 My Gallery
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    zguitar71 zguitar71's Avatar
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    http://www.zcarparts.com/store/merch...ry_Code=PRC02A

    MSA does not sell a short throw for the 79-89 5 speed anymore.
    Did I hit that cone?
    1/71 series II 240z, 920 gold (AKA baby poo yellow, but I love it anyway)
    Christopher Gray

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    of the Silver Shield Soc. dogma420's Avatar
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    I guess they don't; email them and let them know you'd get one if you could...that's how they get parts to be made after a long hiatus anyways.

    As you can see in the picture, those brackets are really all this is about, and a longer shifter from the hole to the pivot on the end that goes into the tranny. If you could machine both of those, and get good, you'd sell a lot of 'em on here!
    --Dave aka Dogma420 My Gallery
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    Registered User Victor Laury's Avatar
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    The "Longer throws" are only associated with the Borg Warner T-5 tranmission from the Turbo ZX's. The standard 5 FS5W71B will shift so much like the stock 4 speed, the only real indication is the momment you shift into 5th gear! It's a win/win and a "Drop in". the overdrive is a gas saver on the freeway. However, with the exception of the fith gear, the 4 speed ratios are hard to beat. Nissan put some real thought into the engineering of that 4 speed box.
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    of the Silver Shield Soc. dogma420's Avatar
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    I don't believe that to be true; the 77-78 5 speed was the 4 speed and they just added an extra gear to it; the 79-83 5 speed (not borg warner) was a redesign that doesn't resemble the 4 speed in design.
    --Dave aka Dogma420 My Gallery
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    Old Z Guy LanceM's Avatar
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    I put the shifter from my 73 into an 81 ZX tranny no problem so I don't see why the short shifter from an early Z wouldn't work in a ZX tranny...
    Lance

    73 240Z, tripple webbers, 5 speed, 4 wheel disk, Einbach springs
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    of the Silver Shield Soc. dogma420's Avatar
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    the distance between the hole it pivots on and the ball that inserts into the tranny is different....you need the brackets for each side that make up for the difference...those brackets are shaped differently for the newer tranny...hence why you can't use it...your shifter just doesn't make any difference.
    --Dave aka Dogma420 My Gallery
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    of the Silver Shield Soc. dogma420's Avatar
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    now i see what you're saying...the knob is in the same place on the 'shorter' shifter...we are talking shorter shift distance between each gear.....not a shorter shifter length in the size of the shaft...
    --Dave aka Dogma420 My Gallery
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    Old Z Guy LanceM's Avatar
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    No you were right the first time, I wasn't thinking about the short shifter requiring the brackets, forgot about them. So that is why the aftermarket short shifter wouldn' work, it is all clear now!!
    Lance

    73 240Z, tripple webbers, 5 speed, 4 wheel disk, Einbach springs
    98 BMW 540i/6

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    CraZZZy about Z's DatsunZsRule's Avatar
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    Actually Dogma420, the 1979 and 1980 280ZX was also a "WIDE RATIO" 5 speed. Just like the 77/78 Z's. The TRUE 5 speed with the taller/stronger 5th gear that helps cut RPMs down, saving engine wear/gas ect. was started in 1981 - 1983. Then of course the '83 ZX TURBO's came with the Borg Warner T5.

    I love my original Wide Ratio trans. thats currently in it but I want to lower my RPMs a bit @ highway cruises. I got the 3.9 differential in her now so the RPMs are up there with that early 5 speed. If memory serves me right it's at about 3,200 at 70 or 75 MPH. With that 81-83 ZX tranny she will run much lower RPMs on freeway cruises which will save on engine wear & gas. I am aware though that I will not get as much "Kick" at take off due to the taller 1st and 2nd gears on the later ZX trans. but I don't mind that as much. My goal is to get lower RPMs on the freeway

    Yeah, that sucks M.S.A. no longer has the short shifter for later 5 speeds. I actually don't find the stock Z transmissions to have that wide of a shift pattern. I'm very happy with the way the stock Nissan 5 speeds shift. My $0.02 cents.

    Thanks Again for the replies. zguitar71, thanks for the heads up. I'll take a look at Z Barn.

    LaterZ
    Jared (1977 280Z - SOLD )

    "Any car can get you where you need to go. A special car gets you there with a smile on your face"

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    I have that trans in my 78. It came out of an 82 Maxima. I really don't notice much of an acceleration difference in the lower gears, not do I notice any difference in the throw. That might be because my shifter bushings were shot in the old trans so I can't really compare it to the newer one. But I do notice the gas mileage and rpm difference with the higher fifth gear. I bought mine used eight years ago and haven't had any problems with it.
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    Default Putting '78 5 Spd into a '71

    I am preparing to put a "78 5 Spd into my early '71. I have already obtained a shifter, with the proper bends to avoid hitting the trans tunnel.

    One thing that I need to confirm, is what clutch slave to use. From what I have researched so far, I believe I should keep the 240Z adjustable slave, correct??? I am keeping the 240Z clutch/throw-out bearing.

    TIA,

    Marty

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    I have the slave from the 240 on mine, works great. I have a turbo clutch and flywheel so I have a different throwout bearing.
    Did I hit that cone?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marty Rogan
    I am preparing to put a "78 5 Spd into my early '71. I have already obtained a shifter, with the proper bends to avoid hitting the trans tunnel.

    One thing that I need to confirm, is what clutch slave to use. From what I have researched so far, I believe I should keep the 240Z adjustable slave, correct??? I am keeping the 240Z clutch/throw-out bearing.

    TIA,

    Marty
    Marty, If I remember correctly, you will want to use the 78 5spd tranny clutch fork assembly in your conversion...not the 71 4spd fork assy. I believe the 4 spd fork assy (in the 5spd) does not provide enough travel for proper clutch disengagement. Come on Victor L...help me out here!!!

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    I screwed mine up... So my "help" will be what not to do. I didn't notice the difference in the forks until AFTER I had everything buttoned up. Then I got to the clutch slave installation and saw the later fork had no hole for the rod to pass through. After scratching my head for a few momments=, I called my buddy Les at CDM. "Hey Les", "Got this problem.", "Just installed an 80 5 speed and I can't hook up the clutch.". "No prob" he said, "Use the 4 speed fork!". Well, I couldn't follow his advice, because I had wore out my welcome to the auto shop's lift. They had PAYING customers waiting! So, I cut the rod to match the fork. That was more than a year ago, and it works fine, BUT, come the day my clutch needs adjusting, I'll be out of luck and will have to pull it all and do it right then.

    That's my "help".
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    I can't think of any reason you can't use the the 5 speed fork and slave cylinder for this?

    That's what I am planning on doing if/when I go to a 5-speed or change clutches again.

    Fork used in 73 4-speeds is used through 78 for ALL Z's, same for slave cylinder. I'd rather use the self-adjusting fork/slave (73-78) You just have to use the fork designed to be used with the appropriate slave.

    NOTE, You MUST use the appropriate T/O bearing collar for the CLUTCH/PRESSURE PLATE you are using.

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    Well I took a look at Z Barn's web site.

    zguitar71, Do you just E-mail them and tell them what part your looking for and they locate one for you???? I didn't see any transmissions for sale on there site but I did see there order form. Also did you say that they rebuilt yours??? I'd probably have them do mine as well. Do they rebuild them with the factory OEM Parts?

    Thanks again
    Jared (1977 280Z - SOLD )

    "Any car can get you where you need to go. A special car gets you there with a smile on your face"

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    another classic car guy EricB's Avatar
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    Marty

    Do not re-use the throwout bearing COLLAR from the 4spd - it's 5mm (approx 1/4" too long) - you'll need to use the throwout bearing COLLAR from the 5spd for proper clutch engagement... I know...

    The bearings themselves though are identical from what I can tell so no worries if you already bought a new one... you can get it pressed onto the 5spd collar.

    -e

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    What I used on my 72 was: everything from flywheel back was 77 5 speed....the slave, fork, clutch, pressure plate, throw out, all was 77 5 speed. Works great...I did need the clutch, and the tranny had a real good fork/throw out on it, so it was an easy decision. But everything matched the year of the tranny. Plus the slave is self adjusting which is nice.

    I did have to adjust the clutch pedal nut on the thingy that pushes against the piston on the clutch master, had to thread it almost to max (master was original 72 style but i think its the same)...when this adjustment was done, clutch is smooth as silk in operation.
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    of the Silver Shield Soc. dogma420's Avatar
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    One more quick note---

    I had to pull the tranny twice, and my car is just jacked up, no tranny jack, just using muscles

    Trust me, I tried every combo to save money, and believe me, just have everything except flywheel match the tranny's year of manufacture...make sure the slave, all clutch pieces, fork, and throw out bearing match the 5 speed's year....the 5 speed stuff is more refined anyways in design, imo because the clutch is so much smoother than when I had the 4 speed installed.

    Just my .02 dollars.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bambikiller240
    I can't think of any reason you can't use the the 5 speed fork and slave cylinder for this?

    That's what I am planning on doing if/when I go to a 5-speed or change clutches again.

    Fork used in 73 4-speeds is used through 78 for ALL Z's, same for slave cylinder. I'd rather use the self-adjusting fork/slave (73-78) You just have to use the fork designed to be used with the appropriate slave.

    NOTE, You MUST use the appropriate T/O bearing collar for the CLUTCH/PRESSURE PLATE you are using.
    Thanks Carl......mmmmmmmmm yah, the right TO brg collar....not the fork!!! I was having a senior moment....sorry guys!

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    Quote Originally Posted by DatsunZsRule
    Well I took a look at Z Barn's web site.

    zguitar71, Do you just E-mail them and tell them what part your looking for and they locate one for you???? I didn't see any transmissions for sale on there site but I did see there order form. Also did you say that they rebuilt yours??? I'd probably have them do mine as well. Do they rebuild them with the factory OEM Parts?

    Thanks again
    I have gotten parts from them through E-mail without a problem but with the trans I talked to the owner. With an item that pricey I felt better talking to a person. He is very hard to reach on the phone. I had no problems with the trans, shipping or anything else and I do recomend them and many other people have written positive threads about the Zbarn on this and other sites (which is the way I decided to go to them for parts).
    Did I hit that cone?
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    It still seems like I am getting conflicting info here. It might just be me. It's been a REALLY long day.

    If I read between the lines, I think what I am hearing here is: you should keep all the parts matched, clutch, throwout bearing collar, fork and slave. Either use all the parts from the 71 240Z or all of the parts from the 280Z to match the trans. Is that right???

    Marty

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marty Rogan
    It still seems like I am getting conflicting info here. It might just be me. It's been a REALLY long day.

    If I read between the lines, I think what I am hearing here is: you should keep all the parts matched, clutch, throwout bearing collar, fork and slave. Either use all the parts from the 71 240Z or all of the parts from the 280Z to match the trans. Is that right???

    Marty
    Marty, I did this conversion and purchased new parts....everything inside the bell housing. They were all ordered to fix the 81 to 83 5 speed tranny. Regarding the slave cylinder....I don't think it matters as long as the parts interface correctly (outside end of clutch fork and the push rod in the slave cylinder). I think the key is the TO brg collar, as Carl mentioned. Hope this clears it up!

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    Let me try. (disclaimer - I could be wrong) the difference is in the height of the flywheel/cluch disk/pressureplate. The stacked height of these components on the 240Z was less than the height on the 280Z. Therefore, the T/O bearing collar is longer on the 240 than the 280. When swapping JUST the transmission and NOT the flywheel/cluch disk/pressureplate components, you must use the longer T/O collar. Your free to swap forks/slave cylinders as you wish, but the T/O collar must match the clutch components.

    Comments on this Draft are welcome.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor Laury
    Therefore, the T/O bearing collar is longer on the 240 than the 280. When swapping JUST the transmission and NOT the flywheel/cluch disk/pressureplate components, you must use the longer T/O collar. Your free to swap forks/slave cylinders as you wish, but the T/O collar must match the clutch components.

    Comments on this Draft are welcome.
    But if I keep the 240 clutch pressure plate and disk, and use the longer 280 collar, that would be a mismatch of the parts.

    Marty

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    He actually meant the SHORTER throw out collar of the 280...its shorter.

    If you install the 240 throw out and bearing, the clutch will be disengaged all the time no matter if you press the clutch in or not. Trust me I did this and learned the hard way.

    The 280 clutch/pressure plate are larger in width, so when the longer 240z collar is used, its pressing the clutch in without even touching the pedal, so 100% of the time the car acts like you have the clutch pedal pushed on.

    Use a 73-78 slave cylinder auto adjust---this requires a fork that matches the self adjusting rod of this slave....it doesn't have a hold for the rod to go through. the self adjust will save you, and its more like a modern car!
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    Woops, I mean Marty said the wrong thing....



    You should say SHORTER 280 collar marty, then it should make sense. The 240 is longer cause the clutch width is shorter, and the 280 is shorter, cause the clutch assy width is wider.
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    But Dave, in your case you used the 280 clutch components and therefore needed to use the shorter 280 T/O collar.. right?

    If I were (and I did) install a ZX 5 speed on my L24 which was equipped with the original clutch, I would need to use the longer 240 collar.

    True?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marty Rogan
    But if I keep the 240 clutch pressure plate and disk, and use the longer 280 collar, that would be a mismatch of the parts.

    Marty
    Marty: That is a correct statement. You would NOT want to do that!

    There are two (semi separate) issues to be concerned with when changing from a 240Z Clutch and or Trans to a 280Z/ZX Clutch and/or Trans

    1. Fork and Slave cylinder must match each other:

    both 70-72,

    or both 73-78, 79-83 Non Turbo)


    2. Clutch Disc, Pressure Plate, and Throw-Out Bearing Collar must all match:

    70-74;

    OR 75-78 Coupe, Non Turbo ;

    OR 75-78 2+2, 79-83 2+2, 82-83 Turbo


    Victor: That is a correct statement YOU would want to do that. (I unsderstand that you DID do it)
    Last edited by Bambikiller240; 03-31-2005 at 09:11 AM.

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    Thank you Carl,

    You get the prize for reading what I actually said.

    I understand now.

    I might not be getting the fork and throw-out bearing collar from the 280Z. Won't know till I pick it up. So I wanted to be sure that I could use what I have. Besides, the clutch that is in there has pretty low miles on it, so why just throw it away.

    So, for now I will keep all the parts from the 240Z (except the trans). When that clutch wears out, I 'll swap everything over to 280Z parts.

    It's good to know that you can swap over to the self adjusting slave (if you have the right fork). That' just one less thing to mess with.

    Thanks again,

    Marty

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    HTML Code:
    Marty said:
    But Dave, in your case you used the 280 clutch components and therefore needed to use the shorter 280 T/O collar.. right?
    
    If I were (and I did) install a ZX 5 speed on my L24 which was equipped with the original clutch, I would need to use the longer 240 collar.
    
    True?
    Yes, True. I used the 280 components because the fork on my 4 speed was kinda messed up, and the tranny I got had a perfect condition fork/throw out bearing already attached...so I just used what it came with...I'd be surprised if whoever you got it from removed it.
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    Default 4spd upgrade to 5spd

    I have a 1974 260z with 4spd tranny, I'm considering about swapping it out for a 5 spd tranny from a 1988 Nissan 240sx. If anyone has done this before please give me some advice..Is it compatible?

    thanks

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    vissan--
    Start a new thread; adding a different topic (however similiar) to an old thread is bad ediquette.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marty Rogan
    I am preparing to put a "78 5 Spd into my early '71. I have already obtained a shifter, with the proper bends to avoid hitting the trans tunnel.

    One thing that I need to confirm, is what clutch slave to use. From what I have researched so far, I believe I should keep the 240Z adjustable slave, correct??? I am keeping the 240Z clutch/throw-out bearing.

    TIA,

    Marty
    Hi Marty:
    I don't believe you can't make the Type A clutch fork work with the Type B 5spd. The two forks are different lengths and the absolute position of the pivot in the two transmissions are in different places in relative space.

    I may be remembering this incorrectly.. but there are several things going on when it comes to getting the right combination of parts related to these tranny swaps.

    The "original" Pressure Plate used in the 70-73 240-Z was actually the thickest. That is to say that the distance measured between the flywheel (with no clutch plate installed) to the top of the fingers on the Pressure Plate is the greatest of any of the Pressure Plates. Thus the Throw-out Bearing Collar from the Type A tranny, in the 70/71 240-Z's is the SHORTEST of them all. (see below URL).

    With the switch to the Type B 4 spd., came the switch to the self adjusting clutch, and in turn a shorter clutch fork (which changes the amount of movement at the Throw-out bearing...so the Type B 4speed used the longest Throw-out bearing collar. All this to say that it matters which Transmission Type you are starting the swap with - as well as what you are swapping in.

    The 280Z Pressure Plate, while providing higher clamping force, is actually thinner - and therefore the throw-out bearing collar is longer that the original 240-Z throw-out bearing collar in the Type A trannys.


    Shorter/Longer than what? There are at least four common different lengths of throw-out bearing collars that you can run into, plus a couple more that are uncommon but were used in some cars. Collar length isn't the only consideration - the placement of the "ears" on the collar matter as well as that is where the clutch fork meets the collar.

    The clutch forks from the Type A and Type B tranny are a different over-all length. So you can't just fill the hole in a Type A Fork - and use it with a self adjusting slave cylinder.

    To make matters worse - if you order a Pressure Plate for a 240-Z today - you will most likely get the 280Z Pressure Plate anyway, because they haven't supplied the original height Pressure Plates for the 240-Z's years.. Believe it or not, a 12/69 production car that I have, still has it's original clutch and pressure plate installed.

    If you are using after-market parts it gets even more complex because the height of the Pressure Plate Fingers can vary quite a bit among them. Most of them list the same part number for all L24/L28's... and a few still list different part numbers for the L24, L26 and L28 (but out of the box they might still all be the same).

    The general advice that say's use all the components from your 240, or all the components from the 280/280ZX is the safest thing to do - if you are swapping a type "B" 4 speed for a Type "B" 5 speed. If you have a Type "A" 4 speed at present, and you are installing a Type "B" 5 speed.. use all the components from the Type B 5 speed.

    KEEP ALL THE PARTS FROM EACH TRANNY AT DIFFERENT ENDS OF THE GARAGE - AND MARK THEM AS THEY COME OUT - magic marker of masking tape - BUT DON'T LOSE TRACK OF EXACTLY WHAT IS WHICH!


    Then if you must - change the clutch out - compare the new parts you get with the original parts that worked... Lay the Pressure Plates on a flat surface and carefully measure the distance from the surface to the Pressure Plate fingers... make sure the new and old are the same height. If they are not, you will have to exchange the new pressure plate... or find the correct throw-out bearing collar to match that new Pressure Plate.

    See: http://www.zparts.com/zptech/articles/trans_swap%20parts/4tobear_specs1.html

    I repeat:
    EEP ALL THE PARTS FROM EACH TRANNY AT DIFFERENT ENDS OF THE GARAGE - AND MARK THEM AS THEY COME OUT - magic marker of masking tape - BUT DON'T LOSE TRACK OF EXACTLY WHAT IS WHICH!

    If you keep track of everything carefully - you have some hope of correcting any small problems that come up - but you have to have FACTS carefully recorded.

    good luck,
    Carl B.

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    As someone who put an '82 5 speed in his '73, I'll point out that another benefit of the later 5 speeds ('80-'83) is that 3rd is closer (ratio-wise) to 2nd than with the earlier 5 speeds and 4 speeds. This means you won't see your revs drop so much on the 2/3 upshift.
    Daniel
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Beck
    I don't believe you can't make the Type A clutch fork work with the Type B 5spd. The two forks are different lengths and the absolute position of the pivot in the two transmissions are in different places in relative space.
    I don't think that's right. I've got the adjustable slave and throwout fork (I believe these were Type A only) on my 80 ZX 5 speed. Works just fine. I've had the non adjustable fork and the adjustable right next to each other and was unable to distinguish a difference aside from the holes in the adjustable fork that aren't there in the non-adjustable one. I for one really like having the adjustable clutch.
    Quote Originally Posted by 240ZMan
    As someone who put an '82 5 speed in his '73, I'll point out that another benefit of the later 5 speeds ('80-'83) is that 3rd is closer (ratio-wise) to 2nd than with the earlier 5 speeds and 4 speeds. This means you won't see your revs drop so much on the 2/3 upshift.
    This is very true! Especially if you have an aftermarket cam and make your power up top, that drop in rpms between 2nd and 3rd can be brutal when you're racing. I had situation with my old roommate where we had very equal handling cars, had about the same power to weight ratios, but he had a cammed 510 with Mikunis and a 280Z 5 speed. We went to the track and when we'd hit the main straight at the top of 2nd I'd jump past him when he shifted to 3rd. I gave him a closer ratio trans to fix that issue and we were neck and neck again after he got rid of the 280Z unit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jmortensen
    I don't think that's right. I've got the adjustable slave and throwout fork (I believe these were Type A only) on my 80 ZX 5 speed. Works just fine. I've had the non adjustable fork and the adjustable right next to each other and was unable to distinguish a difference aside from the holes in the adjustable fork that aren't there in the non-adjustable one. I for one really like having the adjustable clutch.
    Actually, there was an "adjustable" fork/slave used on 1972 240Zs with the Type "B" trans. (at least the early 72's, but possibly the later ones too)


    I'm not 100% sure, but I don't think the fork used on Type "A" trans can be made to work with the later "B" transmission


    FWIW, the "non adjustable" fork/slave is actually "self adjusting".
    Last edited by montoya_fan01; 04-13-2006 at 03:43 PM.

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    Fair enough. My 5/70 had a Type A to start. I think the same fork is in the car now, but to be honest there were so many parts going around at that time and it was so long ago that I could be wrong, but I think I would remember if it needed to be changed out.

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    I actually tried at first to use the adjustable slave (with the nut) from my original 10/71 1972 240z with my 77 5 speed...the mount point to the end of the rod are different lengths, so I couldn't get it to fit.

    the later 280z slave w/out adjustment is self adjusting like Montoya said--but that brings up a good quesiton--is it self adjusting for a stock pressured clutch? I would think yes, which is fine with me, as I'm closer to stock than modified.

    When it comes time to rebuild my 77 5 speed I will probably upgrade to the ZX 5 speed--sounds like the ratios from 2 to 3 work great--(plus 5th and reverse aren't kissing cousins like on the Z 5 speed)...
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    dogma, it is self adjusting, period. (of course for the stock clutch and probably at least until you've changed things so much that the rod from the slave can't push the fork far enough to disengage the clutch)

    I haven't heard of anyone who reported having a problem in that regard, but that doesn't mean it hasn't/can't happen. If you stick with using ALL PARTS from the same year (p/p, disc, fork, t/o brg collar, slave) you will virtually eliminate the possiblity of a problem, start mixing things up and anything is possible.
    Last edited by montoya_fan01; 04-14-2006 at 03:40 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by montoya_fan01
    dogma, it is self adjusting, period. (of course for the stock clutch and probably at least until you've changed things so much that the rod from the slave can't push the fork far enough to disengage the clutch)
    That's a bit of an oversimplification. If you have the "self adjusting" unit, you're stuck with wherever that engagement happens to be. I guess you could adjust in a whole bunch of free play or really drastically change the pedal height. If that is good enough for you then more power to ya. How many cars have you jumped in the first time and been less than happy with where the clutch engages? For me that's most of the time. By using the manual adjuster, you can change the point of engagement to suit your preference. Is that worthwhile? Depends on who you are. For me, I think it's very worthwhile.

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    The adjustment at the slave sets the amount of gap between the p/p-disc and the flywheel when the clutch is disengaged. That is one place to adjust point of engagement, but IMO it's not the right place to do it. (you of course are welcome to do it in whatever manner floats your boat)

    The only other place to make an adjustment IS at the master cylinder/pedal interface. I always set the slave adjustment (my early 72) per factory spec. so that there is positive disengagement but not an excessive gap, and then adjust the pedal height so that the clutch engages when the pedal is about 1" above the floor which is where I like it to be. This method works equally well for a 73 with the "self-adjusting" slave/fork. (I've owned one and used this method)
    Last edited by montoya_fan01; 04-14-2006 at 11:38 AM.

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    I JUST (last night) installed a 79' 280ZX 5-speed tranni into my 70'Z.

    I used my original clutch, pressure plate, T.O. bearing collar and resurfaced flywheel. I also used the original fork (with hole for adjustable push rod) and a new T.O.Bearing.

    I have an R-200 Diff w/ ZX C.V.axles so I used my original drive line.

    Every thing bolts right up and works great. No adaptors or special parts.

    The tranni was $250. The Diff is a posi locker out of a 300ZX. The cross member was from my 70, The diff mount is from an 82' ZX.

    LOVIN IT! especially with gas prices being what they are right now.

    Dave.
    Last edited by Zs-ondabrain; 04-14-2006 at 04:50 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by montoya_fan01
    The adjustment at the slave sets the amount of gap between the p/p-disc and the flywheel when the clutch is disengaged. That is one place to adjust point of engagement, but IMO it's not the right place to do it. (you of course are welcome to do it in whatever manner floats your boat)

    The only other place to make an adjustment IS at the master cylinder/pedal interface. I always set the slave adjustment (my early 72) per factory spec. so that there is positive disengagement but not an excessive gap, and then adjust the pedal height so that the clutch engages when the pedal is about 1" above the floor which is where I like it to be. This method works equally well for a 73 with the "self-adjusting" slave/fork. (I've owned one and used this method)
    Well I guess we have to agree to disagree. I like to have the brake and clutch pedal heights basically the same, and then be able to adjust the engagement of the clutch independently of the pedal height. It's just one more degree of tunability, and it's definitely not the "wrong" way to do it as you stated above.

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    hey wait a minute, Dave.
    you do mechanicals, too!

    what about the shifter hole?
    did you have to do any cutting for clearance in 5th gear?
    this swap is in my future plans ('A' to 'B' first) and since i've read about the clearance issue, i bought the nismo 'S' shaped shifter from Courtesy just in case
    thanks,
    Bart

    5/71 240z, HLS30-31306, mostly stock, ZTherapy SU's, Pertronix, Eibach ProKit, KYB, Poly bushings, 60 amp alternator w/Dave's plug bypass, headlight and parking light harness upgrades.

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    I don't know about dave, but I cut the shifter right above the pivot then welded it back on so that it faced straight back, then bent it 90 degrees so that it came straight through the middle of the shifter hole. If you want to run the stock inner shift boot don't cut the metal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mlc240z
    hey wait a minute, Dave.
    you do mechanicals, too!

    what about the shifter hole?
    did you have to do any cutting for clearance in 5th gear?
    this swap is in my future plans ('A' to 'B' first) and since i've read about the clearance issue, i bought the nismo 'S' shaped shifter from Courtesy just in case
    thanks,
    I AM a Mechanic, not nearly as qualified or certified as JZM but still, a mechanic.

    The shift hole was already cut for the previous tranni (72' 4-speed) after my original dropped a couple bearings out of the drain hole.

    In a rounded shape, cut only 5/8" forward of the present hole. Your rubber boot should still catch most of the lip and be usable.

    I am a mechanic, electrician, I do electronics and am a 12 volt specialist with 18 years under my belt. I also do construction and can practically build a house from the ground up if need be. I do minor bodywork, upholstery, electrical, mechanical, suspension and brakes, including rebuilding almost every part that has ever been pulled on my car.

    Including the new gear reduction starter that I just rebuilt and put in my Z at the same time as the 5-speed install.
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    yea Jon,
    Thanks.
    i was trying to avoid any cutting of the shifter tunnel with the purchase of the comp shifter (i get a little queasy when the words 'cut the Z' are mentioned).
    i had read that the comp shifter eliminated that necessity so hopefully i won't have to. just curious since Dave didn't mention it.
    Bart

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    you don't have to convince me, Dave!

    i've seen your work and i knew that only a real 'technician' could do it that well!!


    the comp shifter brings the top of the shifter back a couple of inches and the initial incline should allow it to clear the tunnel without cutting. this is strictly by eyeball, and seems to be confirmed by other postings. i hope, i hope.
    Bart

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    so Dave you paid $250 for your 5 speed, and I paid $300 for my 77 5-speed...

    I just found a guy selling a 83 L6 with the 83 5 speed attached selling the total lot for $150!!!! I think I'm going to get it.
    --Dave aka Dogma420 My Gallery
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    The first one I bought was only $77 and it came with the driveline, shifter, fork and throw-out bearing. After installing it and removing it 4 times in two days, I finally got to hear the bearings grinding and found out that It had a BAD main bearing.

    The 5-speed that I found just down the road from me was the only one within 50 miles that was'nt $400+ dollars.

    Snag that motor and trans for $150. you won't find a deal like that for a long time to come. Don't think, just do it!

    Dave
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    pull n save had $30 transmissions a couple weeks ago. I couldn't pass that up, I would have bought 2 but I let a friend know and he got the other.

    I'm not worried about replacing bearings if needed. They are pretty easy to work on with the right service manual and common sense.

    For the late 5 spd you can modify it for an actual short throw shifter.



    Then cut, drill and tap for a stud in a 4 spd shifter.




    This mod shortens the actual throw on a stock length shfiter from 5.5" to 3" 1-2 shift.
    things will only bother you if you let them.

    82 280zxt 4 spd auto
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    short throw info

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    I just "inherited" a 1980zx non turbo. Is there anything good about this car's drive train to update my 1972 240z? or should I just junk it.
    1971 Tr6, 72 zed, 84 720, 89 Celebrity, 07 Subaru Impreza SE 85 Sandpiper 565 sailboat

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    Got a spare 77 5 spd in the SE if someones interested!

  66. #66
    Semi-retired admin Arne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1972zed
    I just "inherited" a 1980zx non turbo. Is there anything good about this car's drive train to update my 1972 240z? or should I just junk it.
    The distributor and electronic ignition is good to have, I have that system on my '71. Plus many people prefer the 5 speeds from these over the earlier units from the 280Z. The engine is a typical L28 with dished pistons and a round port head. Not bad, but nothing special. Not sure which diff that would have come with - R180 or R200.
    Arne - Former owner, HLS30-37705, 7/71, 905 Red
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  67. #67
    Enjoying the ride... 240ZMan's Avatar
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    I'm a big fan of that 5 speed. It's got a much closer 2-3 ratio than the earlier 5 speeds, and yet the 5th gear is a bit longer (taller) than the later 81-83. I'd suggest pairing it up with a 3.90 diffy, or a 4.11 if you like revs

    I have the '82 and 4.11 in my '73 and it's a lot of fun.
    Daniel
    '73 240Z
    Castle Rock, CO

  68. #68
    240Z Elec. Upgrade guy Zs-ondabrain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 240ZMan
    I'm a big fan of that 5 speed. It's got a much closer 2-3 ratio than the earlier 5 speeds, and yet the 5th gear is a bit longer (taller) than the later 81-83. I'd suggest pairing it up with a 3.90 diffy, or a 4.11 if you like revs

    I have the '82 and 4.11 in my '73 and it's a lot of fun.
    By installing the 3:90 diff and the 79' 5-speed, I ended up with over 390 miles to the tank on our trip to Anaheim, CA from Washington State. Thats over 25 miles per gallon. Not bad for 153,000 miles on the 36 year old engine.

    We had a blast and WILL DO IT AGAIN NEXT YEAR!!!

    I met a lot of great people and customers.

    Dave.
    Rate my Z at Car Domain.com
    My 70' 240Z, Daily Driver

    My Parking Light and Headlight Upgrade Harness's at MotorSport Auto
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    HLH info at CZCC Do a search for info on the other upgrades I offer.

  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by 240ZMan
    I'm a big fan of that 5 speed. It's got a much closer 2-3 ratio than the earlier 5 speeds, and yet the 5th gear is a bit longer (taller) than the later 81-83. I'd suggest pairing it up with a 3.90 diffy, or a 4.11 if you like revs

    I have the '82 and 4.11 in my '73 and it's a lot of fun.
    Am I thinking of this correctly?

    When I think of a "taller gear" - I'm thinking of lower numerical ratio.... ie. a 3.364:1 is a taller gear than a 3.7:1 - right?

    If so - then the 81/83 transmission has a 0.745:1 fifth gear, and the 80 transmission has 0.773:1 fifth gear. So fifth gear in the 80 transmission is NOT taller than the 81/83.

    I'd leave the stock 3.364 in the car if you like lower rev.'s and better highway fuel mileage, or put the 3.545 R180 out of the 80ZX in.... for a little better off the line performance and still acceptable highway mileage.

    FWIW,
    Carl


    Carl Beck
    Clearwater, FL USA
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    Last edited by Carl Beck; 05-06-2006 at 08:27 AM.

  70. #70
    Crumudgeon
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    You can also make a poor man's close ratio 5 speed by replacing the .745 5th gear in the NA 81-83 ZX tranny with the .86 5th gear set out of a truck transmission. Nissan part number 32310-58S54.

  71. #71
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    Damn it. Add another item to my while I'm at it list.

  72. #72
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    Is the 81 5 speed any better than the 81?
    1971 Tr6, 72 zed, 84 720, 89 Celebrity, 07 Subaru Impreza SE 85 Sandpiper 565 sailboat

  73. #73
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    sorry, is the 81 5 speed any better than the 1980?
    1971 Tr6, 72 zed, 84 720, 89 Celebrity, 07 Subaru Impreza SE 85 Sandpiper 565 sailboat

  74. #74
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    The 80 has closer ratio 5th, better for racing. The 81 has taller 5th, better for gas mileage.

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