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Thread: 3 Die...Will it ever stop?

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    Laidback Purist moonpup's Avatar
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    Default 3 Die...Will it ever stop?

    Just saw on the local news another case where racing caused a tragic loss of life.

    Apparently a 350Z, racing a black Infiniti, lost control and spun into oncoming traffic, striking a Honda driven by an elderly lady. Reports are that the lady along with 2 teenagers in the Z were killed. The Z was almost cut in two and it's engine is some distance away in the middle of the road.
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    I'd like to sit down and have a heart to heart talk with the numnuts who gave the keys to the idiot kids.
    Bruce Palmer
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    Registered User MikeW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Palmer View Post
    I'd like to sit down and have a heart to heart talk with the numnuts who gave the keys to the idiot kids.
    In this case it sounds like their kid and their kid's friend is dead so I'm sure the parents are beating themselves up. That's just speculation on my part since I have no idea what the real story is here. Here's the latest news story I could find:

    http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/6076553.html
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    Registered User Oiluj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Palmer View Post
    I'd like to sit down and have a heart to heart talk with the numnuts who gave the keys to the idiot kids.
    Bruce has it right. Very few teenagers have the common sense to drive a high performance car like the 350Z. I completely blame the parents.

    We read or see this in the news all the time. I even saw it when I was a teen, (without a fast car...). What's really tragic is the collateral damage they cause to other families.

    Teens and fast cars on public streets don't mix. There are a VERY few teens who are mature enough to be trusted not to do something stupid under peer pressure, especially behind the wheel of a "fast" car. (Same can be said for many adults as well).

    That said, I have no problem with teaching teens how to drive on the track, as long as parents make certain kids understand the difference between the track and public streets.

    I'll get off my soapbox now...
    Julio
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    Registered User Walter Moore's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Palmer View Post
    I'd like to sit down and have a heart to heart talk with the numnuts who gave the keys to the idiot kids.
    It's a little late to talk to those particular people.

    The real question is: How do you convince the people who right this minute are handing the keys to some unbelievably high powered car to their adolescent son that they may well be signing his death certificate?

    Most parents live in denial thinking that THEIR children are different and can be trusted. The problem with living in denial is that you may be eaten by the crocodiles...

    Just my opinion. And let's be honest, I have a lot of them!
    '71 240Z, Because any fool can drive fast in a straight line.

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    HS130-150591 4/79 zbane's Avatar
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    Though in all honesty, can everyone here say that they never did anything stupid behind the wheel?
    I know I have.
    My sister and I used to take the family car out and put it through its paces. It was a 1977 Buick LeSabre 4 door with a 5 liter V8. I can tell you what it's like to fly through the air at over 90 mph, using an elevated bridge as a ramp, hitting the gravel road hard enough to catch air again on the rebound... (we watched far too much Dukes of Hazzard).

    And that's just the beginning. (I'm not bragging, BTW. I know now just how stupid some of my antics were. I do feel rather lucky to have survived some of them, completely and totally unscathed and for the most part ticket free. Not everyone realizes in time, and that is part of the problem)

    It doesn't take a sports car to bring out the stupid in people.

    It takes age and experience to reign it in.

    There will always be incidents like this, and it doesn't please me to be such a pessimist about that.

    I applaud all the efforts made by the police, car clubs, student organizations, parts manufacturers, race/drag tracks, etc. who try to get people of all ages to organized, "safe" venues for high speed fun.

    At least we can hope that some of these peoples friends will stop racing, now that they know it can happen to them after all. But there will be those that say "I'm racing this one in memory of (insert name here)."
    Last edited by zbane; 10-25-2008 at 04:42 PM.
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    Registered User JohnnyO's Avatar
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    My first car in 1981 was a 71 240 after I had it rebuilt I believe I got it up to 128, on an open road at 12:30 AM, alone in the car with no one else around. To this day I think that was the stupidest thing I ever did, let alone doing that with other people in the car AND in traffic.

    That was 27 years ago and kids are still doing it. It will never end. The key is to not provide kids with that kind of speed, be it a crotch rocket, sled, wet bike, boat, or car. They just dont have the mental aptitude to think about the carnage they could cause or the consequences of their actions.

    John

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    Last Friday night there were a couple of cars drag racing on the street here in Portland. There were three teens in the Camaro that lost control. All were 17, the car fliped and rolled several times and the driver flew out of the car and landed on the roof of a house and the car hit the house. The two passengers one a girl, were both killed. This sort of thing is happening all over the country. Recently there was a ''ricer'' doing 145 mph on the Freeway at 2:00 am . No crash but the idiot did go to jail , suspended his license and the fine was over $1000.00 , the car was impounded I know that wasn't cheep. The driver didn't seem effected one way or the other. If he would have lost the car, I think it would have gotten his attention .
    I'd rather die while I am living than live while I am dieing. CZC 1887 IZCC 12602 Member of NorthWest Z Car Club

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    HS130-150591 4/79 zbane's Avatar
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    The driver didn't seem effected one way or the other. If he would have lost the car, I think it would have gotten his attention .
    I seem to recall an article (or thread) some time back where street racers were losing their cars, and were forced to witness as the car (straight from the impound yard) was placed in the crusher, and crushed. (I wish the convicted racer was forced to push the button him/herself; just the knowledge that they were crushing their own car because they wanted to show off would be forever engraved in their memory).
    Thousands of dollars in car, rims, tires, go fast parts, all gone in an instant.
    Some may say that's harsh, but if it gets the attention of those who wish to race on public roads...
    Last edited by zbane; 10-24-2008 at 07:34 PM.
    David
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    Quote Originally Posted by beandip View Post
    Last Friday night there were a couple of cars drag racing on the street here in Portland. There were three teens in the Camaro that lost control. All were 17, the car fliped and rolled several times and the driver flew out of the car and landed on the roof of a house and the car hit the house. The two passengers one a girl, were both killed. This sort of thing is happening all over the country. Recently there was a ''ricer'' doing 145 mph on the Freeway at 2:00 am . No crash but the idiot did go to jail , suspended his license and the fine was over $1000.00 , the car was impounded I know that wasn't cheep. The driver didn't seem effected one way or the other. If he would have lost the car, I think it would have gotten his attention .
    I saw that too Gary....I was amazed that the guy ended up on the roof! Now he has to live with killing some passengers for the rest of his life....pretty tragic and stupid.

    Greg

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    Do it in a Z Mat M's Avatar
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    I am under the opinion that EVERYONE that gets behind the wheel of an automobile, even a motorcycle, for that matter, should be given a MANDATORY physics class.

    I especially applaud the groups of firefighters that bring a smashed car and the Jaws-o-Life and give demonstrations on how they extract what used to be people.
    Mat
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    Here in the Land of Oz, for the third offence, the car is sold. The problem is, there is no legislation to stop the fool from purchasing his car back again.

    During a TV interview some months ago, the lead footed petrol head who had just bought his car that had been confiscated pointed out that it was cheaper than rebuilding another car to the standard of the confiscated one. When asked what he would have done had he not been able to purchase his car he said that he would have built another. When asked if he would continue illegal racing he said that he would.

    I'm for crushing the car with the idiot in the drivers seat. That would at least take him out of the gene pool.

    Rick.
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    How many people here got into some kind of accident with their first car?

    I did. I looked over to change the radio while I was leaving High School and rearended the girl in front of me. My dad made me pay for the damage, so I learned a valuable lesson there, but I still drove it like I stole it (I just didn't change the radio station anymore!).

    These days when I find myself being tailgated by a teen, I try to just get out of the way.

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    Not really a recent phenomenon. As long as there have been irresponsible people (teenagers included) and automobiles, there have been these kind of incidents. Everyone does stupid things behind the wheel from time to time. Those of us who survive the stupidity and learn from it / from others' stupidity go on to be more responsible drivers.
    Fixing the situation would require much more education in my opinion. Since that costs money and time, there will always be those not interested in pursuing it. That would include local and national government programs, continuing all the way down to parents and peers. Even still there will be those who ignore what they have learned. At least we could reduce the amount of carnage if we took a more proactive approach.
    '72 240Z - F54, P79, '78 5 Speed, 3.9 R200

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    240z with 280z attitude.
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    I still say it today, but a 6 month long class of driver's education before you get your first license should be mandatory in this country. Just the other day when I was on my way home from putting in an app at the local union hall, a guy in his late 20's was tailgating me in a charger, and I was already going 5 over, (bad habit of mine). He already alomst rear ended me twice. I slow down to let him pass, and he doesn't, so I speed back up, and he doesn't pass. Then he starts to high beam me in the middle of the day. Mind you there is nothing wrong with my car. He did this for about 10 miles, so I braked checked him, and he finally goes around.
    Anyhow, I know I've done some pretty stupid things as well. My first car was a 1997 Toyota Tercel 4 door, California roads...
    But, to continue on with what I was saying, 6 months of driver's education, both classroom and practical, a defensive driving course, with videos of everything that has happened of the crashes with people being stupid. And the point system in this country should be more strict.
    Ok, I'm done ranting. It just saddens me to see innocent bystanders getting killed for someone elses mistakes, and my heart goes out to all affected in this.

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    Registered User conedodger's Avatar
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    I have a 4000 RPM pill for my MSD6AL. My son hasn't figured it out. He thinks I have some program installed in the EFI that senses his key. It's good enough for freeway speed but takes forever and lots of shifting to go quickly in street traffic.
    To answer the question asked in the thread title... No. I don't think it will ever stop. Sadly, it is a combo of testosterone, inexperience, and desire for acceptance.
    Rob
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    Supporting Member EScanlon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zbane View Post
    ... It doesn't take a sports car to bring out the stupid in people.

    It takes age and experience to reign it in....
    Sadly, there are individuals who are "proud" of their particular brand of stupid and are willing to show it off. And this happens even after they're older and presumably more experienced.

    Pushing the limits.... if you choose to do so, expect the limits to push back. Sometimes the limits exist simply because they do and not by choice. Those limits tend to push back the hardest.


    Quote Originally Posted by blue 72 View Post
    ...Everyone does stupid things behind the wheel from time to time. Those of us who survive the stupidity and learn from it / from others' stupidity go on to be more responsible drivers.

    ... Even still there will be those who ignore what they have learned. At least we could reduce the amount of carnage if we took a more proactive approach.
    There is a reason survivors get asked how they did it... think of it as crib notes from the exams of life. Some of life's tests are simply Pass or Fail... and nature doesn't have a reset button.

    But education isn't going to solve it, it isn't a situation that can be solved. As long as both the democratic fallacy (not the political definition, democratic as "everyone") and the individual's "dare-devilness" exist (and they're genetically handed down) you'll have folks trying to see if they can get "one toe over the line".

    In their mind, their opinion IS correct even when presented with evidence to the contrary (democratic fallacy). This same "fallatious" thought is also known for most of the new inventions, processes, and other advances in human society. It IS the individuals who are willing to try something new and adventurous that have shown us the way to advance society.

    The sad part is that accidents such as this MUST occur for someone to figure out HOW they occur and can then prevent it. Whether for individuals to learn how, or how to design something to prevent it.

    On a last note, as long as driving a vehicle is seen as a "right" and therefore undeniable instead of a "privilege" (anyone notice the synonymity?) you can't exact minimum standards of behavior. Even when laws are enacted to define conformance you will find that the "punishment" is never truly applied.

    How many times have we read about the schmuck who was involved in an accident while on his 3rd, 6th, or more DUI? How is it they're back behind the wheel? Because nobody really stops them. The car doesn't check DMV Records to see if you're licensed! Heck, even those with DUI Starter Inter-Locks have found ways to circumvent them... and been caught and STILL are finding their "right" to drive .... NOT rescinded. "Suspended" yes.... but they've also been caught with that on their record.

    How do you stop them?

    Do you put Internet ID verification technology into EVERY car, including our Z's to ensure that no driver with a suspended license or without one can operate that car? How do you enforce that? What about the ones that figure out how to circumvent the system? (Remember the "Democratic Fallacy"?)

    All of these questions demand an accepting submission to the limitation of individual freedom imposed.

    Which brings up the matter of having to limit the rights of people like these. Which seems ... appropriate.

    What about MY rights?

    Just doesn't seem to be an easy solution to be found.

    FWIW
    E
    Last edited by EScanlon; 10-25-2008 at 02:48 PM.

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    After almost 15 years in law enforcement I can tell you first hand that traffic fatalities know no age boundaries. It always seems that teen-aged deaths are more highlighted in the news and in peoples own minds. Just like life, death continues on its very own crusade.

    And after reading some post on this website and other Z related sites maturity and age definitely do not coincide. You can only hope that most people realize that after they do something stupid and come out of it unhurt that it is not worth the thrill that you get.

    Tom
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    Doing stupid things on public roads is the reason I no longer drive an RX-7.

    The car was modded pretty good... lots of suspension work and some nice tires made it insanely fun to drive, and since I used to live in the country, there was nothing more fun than taking the car out to tear up the twisty backroads where I lived. Well, I was out one day with a friend in the car actually, and was screwing around, and started taking a posted 20mph turn going about 70... I knew the car could normally take it, I've done it before. But something happened, I'm pretty sure with my front drivers side tire (it was hard to say what happened to the car before/after the accident) and the car began to understeer horribly. Flew into a very steep ditch and flipped the car. Me and my friend were okay, but the car was trashed pretty good. I still don't know why I walked away from it, the roof was smashed in about an inch from my head. I can complain all I want and blame it on tire failure, but when it comes down to it, I just should not have been taking that turn that fast, and especially not with someone else in the car.

    I'm keeping the 7 around because I'm pretty sure once I have a good amount of money to throw at it it'll be fixable, but for now I've got the Z to keep me occupied through college. I've learned my lesson here. As far as racing... I've done it once in the middle of nowhere on a deserted road. I like to watch, but that's about it. The Z will be driven in a pretty sane manner once it's running. End of story.

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    Registered User Oiluj's Avatar
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    Default Teen Accidents

    Quote Originally Posted by Nazgul280 View Post
    How many people here got into some kind of accident with their first car?

    I did. I looked over to change the radio while I was leaving High School and rearended the girl in front of me. My dad made me pay for the damage, so I learned a valuable lesson there, but I still drove it like I stole it (I just didn't change the radio station anymore!).

    These days when I find myself being tailgated by a teen, I try to just get out of the way.
    I think most of us did. But the type of accident you describe is at normal speeds and, frankly, often part of the learning process. I had a almost identical experience.

    However, that's very different than someone choosing to drive recklessly at 1.5x to 3x the speed limit on public streets & highways. When I was young, I admit I did some stupid things as well, but never with other cars around. It was usually on an empty road late at night.

    We did have the ability to go to local autocrosses and get some of it out of our systems. I was know as "wildman" in my Pinto 2000. That's because, "at that time", I thought the only way I could keep speed around the course was to drift the corners. I did consistently beat the local BMW 2002's though. *grin*
    Julio
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