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  • 240-Z

    38 100.00%
  • 280-Z

    4 12.50%
  • DATSUN

    18 56.25%
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Thread: Mylar logo'd sunshades - Completed

  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arne View Post
    I wonder if Pete now has electronic versions of that font, and if so, what it would take to be able to get use of it for these?
    Hi Arne:
    There is an interview - Posted somewhere else on the site - where Peter is talking about the man that did the lettering on the BRE Cars - - originally they were hand painted. I think Adam C. was mentioning the fact that one could see the brush-marks in the lettering on one of the BRE cars...

    So it might not actually be a BRE copyrighted design - but rather the hand work of the original sign painter - who is no longer with us. I doubt he ever actually released a Font in his name or intended any copy rights for an entire set of numbers/letters... More likely the sign painter used some existing font released to the public domain.

    FWIW,
    Carl B.
    Last edited by Carl Beck; 12-06-2009 at 11:54 AM.

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Beck View Post
    So it might not actually be a BRE copyrighted design - but rather the hand work of the original sign painter - who is no longer with us. I doubt he ever actually released a Font in his name or intended any copy rights for an entire set of numbers/letters... More likely the sign painter used some existing font released to the public domain.
    Perhaps, and I'll be researching that angle as well. But on the other hand, the current BRE website graphics make heavy use of what appears to be the same font. It will be interesting to see if I get any response, and what that response might be.
    Arne - Former owner, HLS30-37705, 7/71, 905 Red
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  3. #103
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    Here are some photos of the Mylar logo'd windshield sunshades that I put on my car in 1976. The letters have shrunk a little but they seem to be just under 3 inches and the over all is 4 3/4 inches.
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    Michael 11/75 - 76-280 - HLS30-281,114
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  4. #104
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    Excellent info, Michael, thank you! I have forwarded that and a couple of the pictures to the manufacturer for additional template tweaking.

    Best guess on the font at this point is that BRE and the original Bolder Tints used something very similar to "Eurostile Bold Extended #2".
    Arne - Former owner, HLS30-37705, 7/71, 905 Red
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  5. #105
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    Due to some late requests, I have increased the order of the 'DATSUN' sunshades from 20 to 24. We are approaching the time when no further additions will be possible, so if you are interested and haven't got on board yet, don't wait much longer.

    The changes to the template size and shape have slowed the process some. I no longer think it likely that these will be shipped prior to Christmas. Possible, but not likely. Sorry for the delays, but we all want them to be right, and that is taking time.

    Updated availability stats (12/7/09):
    Code:
    Item       |  240-Z  |  DATSUN  |  Total  |
    -------------------------------------------
    Ordered    |   40    |    24    |    64   |
    Paid for   |   35    |    21    |    56   |
    Pending    |    1    |     0    |     1   |
    -------------------------------------------
    Available  |    4    |     3    |     7   |
    Arne - Former owner, HLS30-37705, 7/71, 905 Red
    Car blogs - 240Z - Porsche 911

  6. #106
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    Final size of the new product will be reduced from the 5 1/8" of the test papers to 4.5-4.75" to match measurements taken from originals. The logo characters will be 3" tall.

    Still working to optimize the curve of the top edge, while allowing for the fact that there will be differences from car to car depending on the condition and manufacturer of the windshield gasket. I think we're actually real close on this now.

    Latest work on the font/typeface is attached.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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    Arne - Former owner, HLS30-37705, 7/71, 905 Red
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  7. #107
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    All payments for current requests have now arrived. Updated availability stats (12/7/09):
    Code:
    Item       |  240-Z  |  DATSUN  |  Total  |
    -------------------------------------------
    Ordered    |   40    |    24    |    64   |
    Paid for   |   36    |    21    |    57   |
    Pending    |    0    |     0    |     0   |
    -------------------------------------------
    Available  |    4    |     3    |     7   |
    Arne - Former owner, HLS30-37705, 7/71, 905 Red
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  8. #108
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    I hope you guys can work out a decent font for these because the ones pictured just won't do.

    Edit: This comment was actually based on the font design for the Datsun strip in post #98. I now see the new design in post #106 which looks much better in my opinion. See my post below for more detailed comments.
    Last edited by =Enigma=; 12-11-2009 at 11:21 AM. Reason: For clarity
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  9. #109
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    Here is a photo comparison of my original with the new ones. Hope this helps.
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    Michael 11/75 - 76-280 - HLS30-281,114
    Web site -Click Here and ORIGINAL OWNERS OF THE 280Z (1975-1976 -1977 - 1978 - ONLY) REGISTRATION[

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by =Enigma= View Post
    I hope you guys can work out a decent font for these because the ones pictured just won't do.
    Adam, can you explain your concerns with the font as attached in post #106?

    The end goal from the very beginning has always been to reproduce a very popular period accessory for S30 cars here in the USA and Canada. At the beginning of the process we were working with the belief that all of the original dies and stencils still existed and were useable. As we progressed, neither has been the case. The manufacturer has been great, even though his quote was based on using existing tooling, he has worked with me far more extensively than planned to re-create the needed tooling, at the original quoted price. Neither of us expected this project to be as time intensive as it has become. We are still open to modifications at this time, but since most buyers have expressed an interest in these being as close to original as possible any modifications would need to be small tweaks, as most people I've conversed with seem to feel that the latest iteration are very close.

    If this is not what you had in mind for the pair that you ordered and paid for, I will happily send you a check back and return your reserved parts to the available pool.
    Arne - Former owner, HLS30-37705, 7/71, 905 Red
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  11. #111
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    Sorry Arne, the coment was actually based on Datsun example in post #98. Unfortunately I did not see that there was another page of posts with an update on the font design (post #106). That's what I get for viewing this from my PDA when I should have been working....This is also the reason why the comment was so brief, and sadly why the emotion and smiley wink at the end did not come across. I certainly appreciate the effort you and your vendor are putting into this and I do not wish to rescind my order at this time.

    My concern with what I saw in post #98 was that the font for the Datsun example was too skinny for my tastes, but the example in post #106 looks much better, assuming that the thickness and size of the font used for the Datsun version will be the same relative to that displayed for the 240-Z version so far. I don't know what the original Datsun version looked like, but I like the design and font size used for the 240-Z version much better, and look forward to the seeing the final design.
    Last edited by =Enigma=; 12-11-2009 at 11:26 AM.
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    Understood, Adam. No problems. The final version of the DATSUN shade will have the same thicker, extended font as the 240-Z version.

    Both I and the manufacturer recall that there was a DATSUN version way back when, but neither of us can find any pictures of the original to compare to. He is certain that the same typeface was used for all of them, so that's what we are basing this on. Trying to duplicate the known look of the 240-Z shade and then using the same font, weight and kerning settings for the DATSUN one.
    Arne - Former owner, HLS30-37705, 7/71, 905 Red
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  13. #113
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    Default 240-Z and 280-Z lettering

    Here is what I did from my original shade. Hope this helps. I will work on the Datsun as soon as I can.
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    Michael 11/75 - 76-280 - HLS30-281,114
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  14. #114
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    Arnie here is my take on the Datsun one, hope it helps.
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    Michael 11/75 - 76-280 - HLS30-281,114
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    Mike, it looks like you condensed the font in height a bit, is that so? Did you note a percentage?
    Arne - Former owner, HLS30-37705, 7/71, 905 Red
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  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by mgood View Post
    Here is what I did from my original shade. Hope this helps. I will work on the Datsun as soon as I can.
    These are easily the closest yet. To do a proper nit pick, the zero's need the very slight upper and lower radius. I can't tell in the photos, does the '2' needs a smooth radius transition between the curve and flat (on inside of angle)?

    Still, nit-picks aside, those are very good.
    -Andy
    1973 HLS30-166105
    RB20DET swap, HKS GT2530 turbo, HKS Actuator, Hallman MBC, ebay intake manifold, ebay dump pipe, straight pipe, 14 psi boost

  17. #117
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    Arnie and Cam guy, I actually took my 280-Z picture and made it fit to the 3 7/8 inch height and held the ratio of height to length. I then used those to create the 280-Z on top of it in Photoshop. So the 280-Z is as close as I can get to a copy of mine. I then used that to create the 240-Z, the only number I had to recreate from scratch was the 4. I kind of guessed on it because if you make it the same width as the 8 it looked to wide, so I narrowed it down about 1/4 inch.

    For the Datsun I just guessed, I kept the length of the Datsun the same as the 280-Z.

    Cam Guy do you mean that the outside radius is to large, I agree that is could be a little closer to the top radius of the 2. It also looks like the 2 needs a small radius inside the bottom straight.

    I can look at this on monday when I get to my studio.

    I know we can get this so close that you won't be able to tell the difference.

    What makes mine hard to use is that the numbers have shrunk a little and there is a ragged edge around the numbers about 1/16 inch.
    Michael 11/75 - 76-280 - HLS30-281,114
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  18. #118
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    Edit - More reservations today, been a good day. Going fast, and not many left. Still time to add more to the order if demand continues, but the deadline for no further increases is rapidly approaching.

    Updated availability stats (12/13/09):
    Code:
    Item       |  240-Z  |  DATSUN  |  Total  |
    -------------------------------------------
    Ordered    |   40    |    24    |    64   |
    Paid for   |   36    |    21    |    57   |
    Pending    |    3    |     2    |     5   |
    -------------------------------------------
    Available  |    1    |     1    |     2   |
    Arne - Former owner, HLS30-37705, 7/71, 905 Red
    Car blogs - 240Z - Porsche 911

  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by mgood View Post
    I can look at this on monday when I get to my studio.

    I know we can get this so close that you won't be able to tell the difference..
    Michael, what you've done so far is great. When you get it as good as we think can be done, will you be able to send me a full-size image that I can forward to the manufacturer?
    Arne - Former owner, HLS30-37705, 7/71, 905 Red
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  20. #120
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    I grabbed the 240Z sample and tweaked it in Paint. I only changed what I was trying to describe in my first post. I don't have photoshop here at home but you get the idea. It's very subtle, which is why I tried to emphasize them as only nit picks. I'd still rock it
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    -Andy
    1973 HLS30-166105
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  21. #121
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    Here are the new ones.

    I took as measurements as close as I could on my 280-Z. Again the black letters and numbers did shrink a little. I tweeked mine to fit the new measurements and added the subtle radius to the "0" and to the top of the "2". The spacing on each number is not the same and the width of each is also different by 1/8 inch.

    I also over lay my Datsun over the Datsun on the back of the BRE and this is what I got. The one I did was very close, I just had to adjust the width of some of the letters.

    The height of the 240-Z should be 2 15/16 inch on a background of 4 3/4 inches. I would make the Datsun the same and then it would be about 19 inches across the window. The 140-Z and the 280-Z will be 20 3/8 inches across the window.

    Arnie I will send them to you at 300 ppi or full size via email when they are completely approved and you are ready to go.
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    Michael 11/75 - 76-280 - HLS30-281,114
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  22. #122
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    Thanks for that, Michael. I've got a message in to the manufacturer asking about format preference and such. Your images look great to me.
    Arne - Former owner, HLS30-37705, 7/71, 905 Red
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    One more reservation for a DATSUN sunshade this morning, which exhausts the expanded supply of those so far. If I get more requests soon, I can still add to the order, but that window is closing soon, I suspect.

    Updated availability stats (12/14/09):
    Code:
    Item       |  240-Z  |  DATSUN  |  Total  |
    -------------------------------------------
    Ordered    |   40    |    24    |    64   |
    Paid for   |   36    |    21    |    57   |
    Pending    |    3    |     3    |     6   |
    -------------------------------------------
    Available  |    1    |     0    |     1   |
    Arne - Former owner, HLS30-37705, 7/71, 905 Red
    Car blogs - 240Z - Porsche 911

  24. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by mgood View Post
    Here are the new ones.

    I took as measurements as close as I could on my 280-Z. Again the black letters and numbers did shrink a little. I tweeked mine to fit the new measurements and added the subtle radius to the "0" and to the top of the "2". The spacing on each number is not the same and the width of each is also different by 1/8 inch.

    I also over lay my Datsun over the Datsun on the back of the BRE and this is what I got. The one I did was very close, I just had to adjust the width of some of the letters.

    The height of the 240-Z should be 2 15/16 inch on a background of 4 3/4 inches. I would make the Datsun the same and then it would be about 19 inches across the window. The 140-Z and the 280-Z will be 20 3/8 inches across the window.

    Arnie I will send them to you at 300 ppi or full size via email when they are completely approved and you are ready to go.
    Something doesn't look quite right with these. Namely, the 2, 4, & 8 in these new images look skinny compared to the 0 & Z, or perhaps the 0 & Z are too fat. What I'm talking about here is the width of the lines that make up the chars, not the overall width of the chars.

    Also, something looks off with the inner radiuses of the D (the inner void is too square) in DATSUN, as well as the inner/lower/left radius of the S in the DATSUN. Sorry to nit pick but I like the versions in post #106 better than these latest incarnations. Please take another look at these.
    =Enigma=
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  25. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by =Enigma= View Post
    Sorry to nit pick but I like the versions in post #106 better than these latest incarnations. Please take another look at these.
    Don't be sorry. In this case, nit-picking is good. We want to come up with the best possible compromise, since the original stencils aren't available. (That would have been best, we all know.)

    After reading Adam's comments, I think I agree. While I like the slightly oval'd shape of the zero in the ones in post #121, in most every other way I prefer either post #106 or posts #113 (240-Z) and #114 (DATSUN).
    Arne - Former owner, HLS30-37705, 7/71, 905 Red
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    We're down to only one single 240-Z sunshade left that is not spoken for. Last call!
    Arne - Former owner, HLS30-37705, 7/71, 905 Red
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  27. #127
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    I think we lost some of the proportions when it was made taller/narrower. I can't quite nail it down, but something went strange with the resize.
    -Andy
    1973 HLS30-166105
    RB20DET swap, HKS GT2530 turbo, HKS Actuator, Hallman MBC, ebay intake manifold, ebay dump pipe, straight pipe, 14 psi boost

  28. #128
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    Here is the retweek on the Datsun, I over layed it over the Datsun on the back of the BRE car I copied it from, so you can see how close it is.

    I hope this is closer, you can see that it does distort some when I enlarged it. The "S" is the problem, it looks mor distorted that the other letters.

    I am now working on the 240-Z so I can see if I can improve on the numbers.
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  29. #129
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    Here is the retweeked 240-Z.

    I thickened the top and bottom of the "2".

    I thickened all the "4" and made it a little narrower.

    I made the "Z" thicker on the top and bottom.

    I think this is closer.
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    Michael 11/75 - 76-280 - HLS30-281,114
    Web site -Click Here and ORIGINAL OWNERS OF THE 280Z (1975-1976 -1977 - 1978 - ONLY) REGISTRATION[

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    Well, the 240-Z is better, but the 4 still strikes me as being odd. The latest DATSUN looks good, and matches the BRE car logo pretty well. But what it doesn't match is my memory of how the DATSUN lettering on these sunshades looked in the old days. I still think that the either the DATSUN in posts #106 or #114 look closer to my memory.

    As for the 240-Z, again I keep going back to #106 as being the most consistent from character to character, still looking like what I remember.

    And in reality, I have not yet confirmed that the maker of these can accept an image file like this to created the necessary stencils from. I can certainly make suggestions based on the work here, but may need to trust him to tweak his fonts to try to match whichever we settle on here.
    Arne - Former owner, HLS30-37705, 7/71, 905 Red
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    Here is DATSUN one more time.

    The red background is the BRE car. The gray and off white is from the enlarging the image too much.

    Black that you can just see peeking out around in areas is the last one I did.

    The green are the letters from the one in post #114 that every one likes best.
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    Michael 11/75 - 76-280 - HLS30-281,114
    Web site -Click Here and ORIGINAL OWNERS OF THE 280Z (1975-1976 -1977 - 1978 - ONLY) REGISTRATION[

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    Default 240z mylar

    Arne

    I don't know if this helps, here is a crappy blackberry photo of mine. Let me know if you need it measured or a better photo of it.

    Dave
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    71 240z (L28 parts car)
    73 240z (rust bucket)
    72 240z weekend driver

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    Quote Originally Posted by back-to-zcars View Post
    Arne

    I don't know if this helps, here is a crappy blackberry photo of mine. Let me know if you need it measured or a better photo of it.

    Dave
    A better photo might be nice for comparisons, if not too difficult to get.
    Arne - Former owner, HLS30-37705, 7/71, 905 Red
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    Updated availability stats (12/16/09):
    Code:
    Item       |  240-Z  |  DATSUN  |  Total  |
    -------------------------------------------
    Ordered    |   40    |    24    |    64   |
    Paid for   |   38    |    22    |    60   |
    Pending    |    1    |     2    |     3   |
    -------------------------------------------
    Available  |    1    |     0    |     1   |
    Arne - Former owner, HLS30-37705, 7/71, 905 Red
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arne View Post
    Updated availability stats (12/16/09):
    Code:
    Item       |  240-Z  |  DATSUN  |  Total  |
    -------------------------------------------
    Ordered    |   40    |    24    |    64   |
    Paid for   |   32    |    21    |    60   |
    Pending    |    1    |     2    |     3   |
    -------------------------------------------
    Available  |    1    |     0    |     1   |
    Hopefully that's 39 paid for 240-Z otherwise it doesn't add up.
    -Mike
    Add your Z to my online spreadsheet registry

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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeW View Post
    Hopefully that's 39 paid for 240-Z otherwise it doesn't add up.
    Yup. Fixed it.
    Arne - Former owner, HLS30-37705, 7/71, 905 Red
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    Had an order adjustment.

    Updated availability stats (12/17/09):
    Code:
    Item       |  240-Z  |  DATSUN  |  Total  |
    -------------------------------------------
    Ordered    |   40    |    24    |    64   |
    Paid for   |   40    |    21    |    61   |
    Pending    |    0    |     2    |     2   |
    -------------------------------------------
    Available  |    0    |     1    |     1   |
    As this now reflects, the 240-Z are all sold or reserved, and there is now only a single remaining DATSUN sunshade available.
    Arne - Former owner, HLS30-37705, 7/71, 905 Red
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    Updated availability stats (12/18/09):
    Code:
    Item       |  240-Z  |  DATSUN  |  Total  |
    -------------------------------------------
    Ordered    |   40    |    24    |    64   |
    Paid for   |   40    |    22    |    62   |
    Pending    |    0    |     1    |     1   |
    -------------------------------------------
    Available  |    0    |     1    |     1   |
    Arne - Former owner, HLS30-37705, 7/71, 905 Red
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    All pending payments have arrived. Only one left unsold.

    Updated availability stats (12/19/09):
    Code:
    Item       |  240-Z  |  DATSUN  |  Total  |
    -------------------------------------------
    Ordered    |   40    |    24    |    64   |
    Paid for   |   40    |    23    |    63   |
    Pending    |    0    |     0    |     0   |
    -------------------------------------------
    Available  |    0    |     1    |     1   |
    Arne - Former owner, HLS30-37705, 7/71, 905 Red
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    So I guess that this means that I won't be giving any of these away as Christmas Presents this year......

    FWIW,
    Carl B.

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    No Carl, I'm afraid not. I had hopes early on that we'd have them by now, but that all went sideways when the original dies turned out to be un-usable. Re-creating it all from scratch has taken some time. I think we are close, now.
    Arne - Former owner, HLS30-37705, 7/71, 905 Red
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    "Well maybe next year".... Hang in there Arne - no good deed goes unpunished.

    thanks for the effort...
    Carl B.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Beck View Post
    thanks for the effort...
    You're welcome, folks. I decided way back that I wanted one of these for myself bad enough to take on the project, knowing that it may not succeed, and that the road might be bumpy. It has been more work than I expected, but now that the end appears to be in sight, I can say that it wasn't too bad.

    Of course, I still need to live through shipping them all once they get to me....
    Arne - Former owner, HLS30-37705, 7/71, 905 Red
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    Default HUGE thanks Arne!

    HUGE thanks Arne for all your hard work on this project Waiting on them to arrive is not really a problem ... it's a long time till 2010 driving season starts!

    Have a great holiday season!!!

    Stan
    Datsun 280Z purchased new in 1977: $8088
    Having my 5 year old Son (in 1995) claim it as "Devin's car": PRICELESS

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    I guess that depends on where you live. Here in the Bay Area it's driving season all year round.
    =Enigma=
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    I hear you, Adam. I'll probably drive my 240Z to work either tomorrow or Wednesday. But even for those of us who drive year-around, the wait isn't too bad. I've waited three years so far. A few more weeks won't kill me.
    Arne - Former owner, HLS30-37705, 7/71, 905 Red
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    Merry Christmas to all!

    Test fitted the second round of paper mock-ups today. The shape is now good and ready for production.

    Font shape looks 'right' to my eyes, and is as close as his process will get to the tweaked ones we have been discussing here. There are still some issues with how the letters/numbers follow the lower curve, but that should be fairly simple to correct.



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    Arne - Former owner, HLS30-37705, 7/71, 905 Red
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    I really like the way the DATSUN version fills the width of the banner. My initial thought was that I would end up permanently mounting the 240-Z version on my existing car and save the DATSUN one for a future, perhaps non-240Z project, but now I'm not so sure...
    =Enigma=
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    I know what you mean, Adam. I have always been after the 240-Z version, but the DATSUN is growing on me quickly. I may decide to keep the last unreserved DATSUN for myself.

    As for moving forward, the manufacturer (Joe) and I are both happy with the shape of the sunshades now, so that is finalized. We discussed the problem of the lettering not following the curve and Joe assures me that the vector graphic process used for the real thing (which is a completely different process than printing the mock-ups) will correct the letter/number placement.

    So if we are happy with the font as shown here in post #147, we can proceed to production. If we do that I should be able to begin shipping them out within 10 days or so.

    Comments? Thoughts?
    Arne - Former owner, HLS30-37705, 7/71, 905 Red
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    If no one voices any objections by tomorrow morning, I'm going to OK them for production. Last chance for input.
    Arne - Former owner, HLS30-37705, 7/71, 905 Red
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    They both look good to me.
    (But what do I know?)
    '71 240Z, Because any fool can drive fast in a straight line.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Walter Moore View Post
    They both look good to me.
    (But what do I know?)
    They look good to me as well, and also to my wife and a non-Z-driving friend who had them on his cars back in the day. (Notably on a rather bad-a$$ thoroughly modified X1/9. The sound of that little runt car's engine right behind your ears with its twin Webers, hot cam and Ansa header/exhaust was absolutely amazing.)

    But that's what I'm after here, confirmation that they look "right".
    Arne - Former owner, HLS30-37705, 7/71, 905 Red
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    Looks good to me Arne. I'm really looking forward to seeing the finished product.
    =Enigma=
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    I agree, they are both looking good to me
    -Andy
    1973 HLS30-166105
    RB20DET swap, HKS GT2530 turbo, HKS Actuator, Hallman MBC, ebay intake manifold, ebay dump pipe, straight pipe, 14 psi boost

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    Hearing a few positives and no dissent, I'm happy to report that I have given the OK to go to production. If there are no further glitches, I should have them in my possession in 7-10 business days.
    Arne - Former owner, HLS30-37705, 7/71, 905 Red
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    Arne,

    They look great! The "Datsun" version is growing on me as well. Will be a tough decision on which one to use...
    Julio
    1972 240Z (in-progress, 95% complete)
    CZC# 15388

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    Quick update, the sunshades are in the final stages of production and should be ready to ship to me within 2-3 business days. Stay tuned...
    Arne - Former owner, HLS30-37705, 7/71, 905 Red
    Car blogs - 240Z - Porsche 911

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    Awesome, sounds good Arne!
    -Andy
    1973 HLS30-166105
    RB20DET swap, HKS GT2530 turbo, HKS Actuator, Hallman MBC, ebay intake manifold, ebay dump pipe, straight pipe, 14 psi boost

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    Spent a little time this afternoon installing the latest pre-production sample.

    I know, you are all saying, "Another sample? You said we were almost ready to go!"

    You're right, I did say that. And then on last Monday I received a message from Joe, the manufacturer. Rather than paraphrase it, I'll just paste it here for you all to read.

    Arne,

    Yesterday my silk screener...informed that they are not able to print on the mylar that I supplied them. Essentially, their process won't print on the adhesive side of the tint. On the original tints this was never a problem since the supplier for the film had less adhesive on the mylar. Unfortunately that film supplier is no longer in business.

    The options are to use vinyl letters instead of silk screened letters. This looks the same but has a small visible line around each letter. This is what we did for one-off's and race cars for IMSA, SCCA and car shows. I can make a sample tint with vinyl letters for you to test install and see if that will work?

    Joe
    Sigh.

    While I had reservations, I had Joe build me a sample using the letters to see how it would look. Honestly, I was not optimistic. I was envisioning the "vinyl letters" as being the fairly thick traditional die-cut items, and could not imagine how you would be able to get the mylar to stick tightly to the windshield with thick letters.

    The new sample arrived on Friday, and I found time to install it late this afternoon.

    The results were better than I feared. Quite a bit better, actually. Not as good as my memory of 30 years ago, but much better than I feared once he mentioned the vinyl letters.

    Turns out the vinyl material is far thinner than I expected, and the small line around the edge is less noticeable than I thought it would be. From 3 feet away I doubt anyone will notice.

    Finally using real mylar (instead of paper which doesn't stick to the windshield) gives the opportunity to get a true test of the shape. And that is very close, but I'm working with Joe to make another small adjustment.

    Pictures:

    On the car.







    Instructions. (Copyright 1975!)



    Examples of what the vinyl letters do:

    From the inside - ignore the squeegee marks, but note how the numbers look a bit "embossed".





    From the outside - note the reflection around the 'Z'. This is only visible from this distance in certain light, but it is there.



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    Arne - Former owner, HLS30-37705, 7/71, 905 Red
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    So here's the important parts.

    • I was expecting (and promised to all of you) that the end result would be the same as the originals. Well, after having to re-create the dies, the loss of the original lettering stencils and having to pick and tweak a newer font, and now the change in production process, it should be obvious to all that while these will be made by the original maker and be as close as we can come with currently available materials and processes, they won't be "the same" as the originals. Yes, virtually the same as the one-offs done for racers, but not the same as the original retail versions, as we have all been expecting.

      Therefore, anyone who wants out, let me know. I'll be contacting each buyer individually to offer this, just in case some people aren't following this thread that closely. I'll happily send a full refund by check back to anyone who asks.


    • This does, however, re-open a new possibility. Since we won't be silk-screening them, the restriction for 20-per-logo no longer applies. This means that 280-Z will be available! So as with the refund, if anyone wants to move some or all of your order to 280-Z, please let me know.


    I apologize for the time this project has taken, and that the end result will not be quite what was promised.
    Arne - Former owner, HLS30-37705, 7/71, 905 Red
    Car blogs - 240Z - Porsche 911

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    I don't know if it's just the photos but I think I like the border reflections. I'm not sure how to describe it, it's an eye catcher. I bet it sparkles around the letters as you walk by in sunlight

    By the way, the font looks great!

    I've never looked through a mylar banner, is it see-through? Having the vinyl letters shouldn't be too distracting I think. I have a window banner on my car now and I hardly notice it

    Pretty easy to install?
    -Andy
    1973 HLS30-166105
    RB20DET swap, HKS GT2530 turbo, HKS Actuator, Hallman MBC, ebay intake manifold, ebay dump pipe, straight pipe, 14 psi boost

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    I must have been writing when you posted your next message but consider me 'in'

    -Andy
    1973 HLS30-166105
    RB20DET swap, HKS GT2530 turbo, HKS Actuator, Hallman MBC, ebay intake manifold, ebay dump pipe, straight pipe, 14 psi boost

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    Arne: I'm still in as well.
    Dan

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    Quote Originally Posted by 70 Cam Guy View Post
    Pretty easy to install?
    Not too tough.

    The original instructions say to use clear water only. But the additional adhesive on the newer mylar doesn't allow it to slide around for positioning as easily as the originals did, so Joe is experimenting with a drop or two of dish soap in the water to make that easier.

    Cleanliness is essential. You want the inside of the windshield and the contact side of the sunshade to both be as dust and lint-free as possible. You'll never get it perfect, accept that going in or you'll get really frustrated.

    The instructions say to use a squeegee, and they do mean a RUBBER squeegee. Flexible rubber is essential, a harder plastic squeegee won't do it.

    Lastly, it doesn't pay to try to get it positioned too tightly against the rubber windshield seal. Try to get it too tight and you risk wrinkling and creasing the mylar. Absolute perfect fit is not critical since even an eighth to a quarter of an inch gap really doesn't show - since the black rubber window seal is right behind it.

    Quote Originally Posted by 70 Cam Guy View Post
    I've never looked through a mylar banner, is it see-through? Having the vinyl letters shouldn't be too distracting I think. I have a window banner on my car now and I hardly notice it
    Definitely transparent, especially from the inside.

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    Arne - Former owner, HLS30-37705, 7/71, 905 Red
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    Hi Arne:
    Was any thought given to using a static cling vinyl - very easy to install and it stays were you put it, until you pull it off. I've had static cling vinyl signs on the sides of my car at 100mph+, and the IZCC Decals have never come loose on the inside of the glass.

    just a thought... but the "new" adhesive seems to be somewhat of a problem.

    Nonetheless - the new one's look great - and I really didn't care if they were "exactly" like the originals anyway.

    Keep at it...
    Carl B.

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    Arne, I am in, I ordered 2 with Datsun, I would like one in Datsun and one with 280 - Z if possible.

    I think they will look great and be very close to the one I have on my car now. I included a picture of my original taken from the inside of the car, you can see that there is a gap space around the letters. I think that was caused from exposure and shrinkage. It's also not as reflective as it was when it was new, you can see that from the photo.

    I am sure that the new one will be better looking because my original one was so dirty on the glue side when I got it that you can see the dust in between the glass and the mylar. You can see in the picture.

    Thanks again for all your work.
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    Michael 11/75 - 76-280 - HLS30-281,114
    Web site -Click Here and ORIGINAL OWNERS OF THE 280Z (1975-1976 -1977 - 1978 - ONLY) REGISTRATION[

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    I'm still in.
    Julio
    1972 240Z (in-progress, 95% complete)
    CZC# 15388

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    I have added Andy, Carl, Dan, Michael and Julio to the "still confirmed" list, and have diverted one of Michael's DATSUN orders to 280-Z.
    Arne - Former owner, HLS30-37705, 7/71, 905 Red
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    Arne, I'm still in. 1 240Z, 1 DATSUN. Thanks again for all the work you're putting into this.

    Cheers, Mike

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    Consider me still in. They look just fine. Thanks for all your efforts.
    72 240-- stock motor and drivetrain, 50,500 orig. miles

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    Arne, sunscreens still looking good! Leave my order as is.

    Thanks again, John
    John

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    Hi Arne
    Thank you so much for your continued dedication to this project. I am still in, I don't remember which I ordered, but I am still in. I wonder what these would look like with white letters as opposed to black.......
    Thanks again
    Jerry
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    VIN# HLS30-15647
    Engine# L24-021075
    Factory Color #904
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    San Diego, California

    Now residing in a suburb east of Buffalo, New York

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Beck View Post
    Was any thought given to using a static cling vinyl - very easy to install and it stays were you put it, until you pull it off. I've had static cling vinyl signs on the sides of my car at 100mph+, and the IZCC Decals have never come loose on the inside of the glass.
    I hadn't considered it until now, it is an interesting thought. But I can't recall that I've ever seen static cling vinyl in mirrored transparent.
    Arne - Former owner, HLS30-37705, 7/71, 905 Red
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    Jerry, you ordered one (1) 240-Z sunshade, and I've marked that as confirmed, along with John, George, Mike and several others via email and PM.

    Also for Jerry - the pictures might not let you envision it well, but after seeing one up close and personal again (30 years later), I don't think white letters would show up very well at all on the mirrored surface. I could be wrong, but I don't think it would look all that good.
    Arne - Former owner, HLS30-37705, 7/71, 905 Red
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    Leave my order as is. Many thanks to you Arne for putting this together!!!

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    Thanks Arne! I am soaking in all the helpful hints for these. I think they're going to look awesome and everyone is going to wonder how we kept them in such great condition over the years
    -Andy
    1973 HLS30-166105
    RB20DET swap, HKS GT2530 turbo, HKS Actuator, Hallman MBC, ebay intake manifold, ebay dump pipe, straight pipe, 14 psi boost

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    I've heard back from about 75% of the buyers so far. We're still moving forward...
    Arne - Former owner, HLS30-37705, 7/71, 905 Red
    Car blogs - 240Z - Porsche 911

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    Count me still in Arne
    Cheers

    JC

    Current Project: 1971 Datsun 240z Series I - HLS30-14842
    Current drivers:
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    Have heard from all but 3 buyers now. Awaiting the next sample from Joe, maybe by the weekend, but definitely by early next week.
    Arne - Former owner, HLS30-37705, 7/71, 905 Red
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    Hey Arne, I'm still in as well. Thanks for all the effort you've put into this. Out of curiosity, will adhesive be applied to the vinyl letters as well so we're not relying on the surrounding mylar to hold up the letters?
    =Enigma=
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    My name is Adam and I'm a Zeeoholic!

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    Quote Originally Posted by =Enigma= View Post
    Out of curiosity, will adhesive be applied to the vinyl letters as well so we're not relying on the surrounding mylar to hold up the letters?
    Adam, I don't believe so, no. But from my experience with the first true sample (still on my car's windshield, BTW), I don't think that will be a problem. The newer adhesive seems more than adequate to the job. Plus if you've squeegee'd it thoroughly, it appears to me that the vinyl has done the static cling action and really doesn't want to sag. I'll know more about that soon, when I remove this sample.
    Arne - Former owner, HLS30-37705, 7/71, 905 Red
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    Sign vinyl has adhesive on the back, so you are good there. It looks like he is using 2mm vinyl, so the letters are only 2mm thick, you will hardly notice they are not silk screened. Nice job!

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    Stickerman, I assume you mean 2 mil as in 0.0254 mm or .002 inches and not 2mm. That would kind of suck.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stickerman View Post
    Sign vinyl has adhesive on the back, so you are good there. It looks like he is using 2mm vinyl, so the letters are only 2mm thick, you will hardly notice they are not silk screened. Nice job!
    Quote Originally Posted by =Enigma= View Post
    Stickerman, I assume you mean 2 mil as in 0.0254 mm or .002 inches and not 2mm. That would kind of suck.
    I'm with Adam on this - no way the letters are 2 mm think! Maybe thicker than 2 mil, but not much.
    Arne - Former owner, HLS30-37705, 7/71, 905 Red
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    2 mil is old school machinist talk where I used to work. They always meant 2 thou (.002")
    -Andy
    1973 HLS30-166105
    RB20DET swap, HKS GT2530 turbo, HKS Actuator, Hallman MBC, ebay intake manifold, ebay dump pipe, straight pipe, 14 psi boost

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    From Answer.com.

    How thick is 20 mil?
    In: Length and Distance [Edit categories]
    Dakota Ultrasonics
    Ultrasonic Thickness gauges, Flaw Detectors, and Bolting equipment
    www.dakotaultrasonics.com

    According to Answers.com, a mil is: "A unit of length equal to one thousandth (10-3) of an inch (0.0254 millimeter), used, for example, to specify the diameter of wire or the thickness of materials sold in sheets."

    So; 20 mil = 20 thousandths of an inch = 0.020 inches

    Or; 20 x 0.0254 millimeters = 0.508 millimeters = 0.05 cm

    But... According to another source there is more to the story:

    "All papers are measured in two ways. One is referred to as the paper weight, the other is the actual thickness of the paper. Paper weight is generally measured in 'grams per square meter' (gsm). Paper thickness is measured in 'mils' which is short for thousandths of an inch. Paper weight and paper thickness often go hand in hand, BUT because some papers are denser than others they may be heavier than a similar thickness paper. For example, two manufacturers may list a weight of 300gsm, but the papers may have a different thickness because they have different densities.

    Paper thickness is generally listed as 10mil or 15.5mil and this is equivalent to .010 inches or .0155 inches respectively. To give this some perspective, a human hair is only 2 mils. This is measured with a digital micrometer."

    I would say that the letters are very thin. Hope this helps?
    Michael 11/75 - 76-280 - HLS30-281,114
    Web site -Click Here and ORIGINAL OWNERS OF THE 280Z (1975-1976 -1977 - 1978 - ONLY) REGISTRATION[

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    Your average binder paper or printer paper is usually 3 to 5 thou (.003-.005").

    Suffice it to say, that's thin stuff
    -Andy
    1973 HLS30-166105
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    Yes 2 mil, it was a long day. Vinyl for signs starts at 1.5 mil and goes to about 4 mil, thinner is better.

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    Final order and logo mix has been confirmed. All units are pre-sold, no additional units will be available.

    Final count:

    240-Z - 38
    280-Z - 4
    DATSUN - 18
    Arne - Former owner, HLS30-37705, 7/71, 905 Red
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    Production will begin next week. Estimated to ship to me around 2/5/10.
    Arne - Former owner, HLS30-37705, 7/71, 905 Red
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    Great work, thanks Arne! I can't wait to see them and make my friends jealous
    -Andy
    1973 HLS30-166105
    RB20DET swap, HKS GT2530 turbo, HKS Actuator, Hallman MBC, ebay intake manifold, ebay dump pipe, straight pipe, 14 psi boost

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    We're close. Looks like we'll miss the previous ETA by a day or two. Final payment has been mailed, and the product should be shipped to me early next week. I'll then spot check a couple for quality and begin shipping.
    Arne - Former owner, HLS30-37705, 7/71, 905 Red
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    THEY ARRIVED TODAY!!

    I'll be installing one of mine tomorrow as a final test, then spot-checking and working to combine packages as appropriate. If all goes well, I'll be shipping them out next week. Stay tuned...
    Arne - Former owner, HLS30-37705, 7/71, 905 Red
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    I installed one of my pair today, and I'm well pleased. The fit is nice, and the installation process was much easier this time. I'll be posting some updated hints and tips shortly.

    Shipping prep has commenced, I'll be working on that some tomorrow, and plan to take a few hours off work during the week to get the bulk of them shipped out. I hope to get all of the USA-bound packages mailed by Wednesday or Thursday. All will be shipped First Class mail. There will be either one or two per tube, as needed. Those of you who ordered more than 2 will receive more than one tube.

    The International orders will go out a bit later, I plan to pick up the Customs forms early this week, and hopefully ship by the end of the week.

    My car is alone in the world right now in wearing a current production Bolder Tint sunshade. But it won't be alone much longer....
    Arne - Former owner, HLS30-37705, 7/71, 905 Red
    Car blogs - 240Z - Porsche 911

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    Each tube will include a copy of the original instructions circa 1975. The instructions are still valid, but here are some additional tips, based on my recent experience.

    • Cleanliness is essential. You want the inside of the windshield and the contact side of the sunshade to both be as dust and lint-free as possible. You'll never get it absolutely perfect, so accept that up front or you'll get really frustrated.
    • Do not use ammonia-based window cleaners to prepare for installation. Clear water with a bit of vinegar, or alcohol-based cleaners are OK. In either case, rinse with clear water after cleaning.
    • I did a final wipe using a microfiber drying towel to eliminate as much lint and dust as possible. It appeared to help.
    • The original instructions say to use clear water only, with a drop or two of dish detergent as optional. The additional adhesive on the newer mylar doesn't allow it to slide around for positioning as easily as the originals did, so consider that drop or two of dish soap in the water as required. I did not use it on the test application, but did on the last one and it was MUCH easier to slide around and get correctly positioned.
    • Be careful while handling the sunshade so as not to crease or wrinkle it. Special care should be taken while peeling the clear protective film off the adhesive side, as it is very easy to wrinkle it then. Wrinkles in the mylar will show later.
    • The instructions say to use a squeegee, and they do mean a RUBBER squeegee. Flexible rubber is essential, a harder plastic squeegee won't do it.
    • Lastly, it doesn't pay to try to get it positioned too tightly against the rubber windshield seal. Try to get it too tight and you risk wrinkling and creasing the mylar. Absolute perfect fit is not critical since even an eighth to a quarter of an inch gap really doesn't show - since the black rubber window seal is right behind it.
    Arne - Former owner, HLS30-37705, 7/71, 905 Red
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    Nicely done, Arne! I look forward to seeing them

    -Andy
    1973 HLS30-166105
    RB20DET swap, HKS GT2530 turbo, HKS Actuator, Hallman MBC, ebay intake manifold, ebay dump pipe, straight pipe, 14 psi boost

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    All USA-bound orders were shipped (via First Class Mail) this morning. I expect most—if not all—of them to be delivered by the end of the week.

    International orders will be shipped soon.
    Arne - Former owner, HLS30-37705, 7/71, 905 Red
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    Fantastic, Arne. Looking forward to seeing them if not installing them until the weather gets a bit warmer. Thanks for taking this on. I'm sure it was a bit of a pita. That will teach you about volunteering........lol.
    Cheers, Mike

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    Wouldn't have done it if I hadn't wanted one for myself bad enough to be willing to take it on. Yes, it was a PITA, and I'll think really hard before taking on something like this again. But it's almost over now. I've got mine, 34 others will have theirs, and while I haven't got the final accounting finished yet, I do know that there will be a pleasant amount left over for a club donation. A win for pretty much everyone.
    Arne - Former owner, HLS30-37705, 7/71, 905 Red
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