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Thread: Datsun 240Z Barn find Restoration! cont.

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    Registered User mattbibbey's Avatar
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    Default Datsun 240Z Barn find Restoration! cont.

    I've just moved the thread from the HELP!!!! section because I figured it was a bit more appropriate here.

    I have already got all the carpets out and the seats, which were unusually difficult, and have discovered that the drivers side floor pan is totally knackered, i can see the road through it and the rest feels like it's made of tin foil and cardboard :0( Next to come out this afternoon is the vinyl. EEEEK!!

    Thanks to anyone who follows my thread!

    Matt

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    Registered User J Shara's Avatar
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    yea my floorpans are just as bad, i ordered a replacement kit from motorsport auto for like 300 bucks
    1973 HLS30-129971

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    There's also something underneath that looks a bit like chassis that is rotted through and bent! Any idea what it is?

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    Registered User That-hurt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattbibbey View Post
    There's also something underneath that looks a bit like chassis that is rotted through and bent! Any idea what it is?
    That will be one of the floor support rails. You will need to cut it off and re place. a fabricators will be able to make them for you for a few quid.
    I am in the midst of restoring 2 240s so if you need any help just PM me I am in Sheffield UK

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    NUTs according to wife ChrisZ's Avatar
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    Matt, searce Zclub for floor pans, there is something about MGB (or another brand, can't really remember) floor pans that will fit nicely.

    Chris
    -73 240Z HLS30-171039
    -66 Roadster SPL311-05204

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    Thanks guys, i've actually found a company that has quite a lot of Z stuff. I'm posting the progress pictures on "My Z Photos" as i go.

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    Registered User mattbibbey's Avatar
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    ok. yesterday i pulled out the rest of the vinyl and also remove the rear quarter glass and the front windscreen! It took me a long time to get the windscreen out, is that normal? There's a couple of patches of rust at the bottom of where the rubber was, it's gone through in two tiny places.

    Good news, my triple webers arrived today from Italy, they look brand new!! Might have to sell them to pay for all the other stuff the car needs! haha.

    I've added more pictures to "My Z Photos"

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    Looks great so far. That floor board is going to have to be cut out and changed. This project is moving along at Wheeler Dealer speed, you would think you got Edd China on the job. I always enjoy retoration threads. What brand triples you running? For vinyl replace www.classicdatusn.com or www.datsunspirit.com would be best, both guys know and love datsuns.

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    Registered User mattbibbey's Avatar
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    Montezuma, my triple carbs are webers. They've had a really good clean up! I've got it all to do before they go on. The car has ( at the moment) the original hitatchi's.

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    Registered User mattbibbey's Avatar
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    Hi guys, I'm having some serious problems! I can't get the dash board off! I've undone all the bolts (I think) and i can tell that there's something to do with the heater that's preventing me lifting it clear. How do I disconnect that for a start?

    Did anyone see the front wings on my pictures? I've looked them over and there's only a small patch of rust on the bottom of the right side one, none at all on the left one!!! RESULT!!

    If anyone can explain to me how the dash comes away I'd be very grateful.

    Thanks once again

    Matt

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    Here's a search:
    http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/s...earchid=794533

    I searched for Heater Control Panel as that is what is holding you back. The cables to the panel must be released for the dash to come out of the car. Don't try to remove them at the control levers, remove them at the items they control, i.e. vent, heater flap, defrost flap, water valve.

    Here are two of the more pertinent articles:

    http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=20818

    http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/s...ead.php?t=6981

    HTH
    E
    Last edited by EScanlon; 09-04-2009 at 05:46 PM.

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    Cheers for that mate! I finally got it off today! What a lot of hard work. Some of the srews fastening the heater cables and stuff were rusted on so had to snip the wire :0(

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    That z of your is looking pretty good, floor pans are pretty dingy like mine though, i posted some pics of my car at the body shop getting work done
    1973 HLS30-129971

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    Yeah i looked through all your pics. As you can see from my pics I haven't taken the body panels off yet but i can feel that something underneath the top of the wings is about as sound and strong as wet toilet paper so that will get me down a bit! lol

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    Haha, how does the rear hatch area above the tailights on your Zlook?
    Last edited by J Shara; 09-05-2009 at 07:19 PM.
    1973 HLS30-129971

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    BAD. REALLY BAD! The tail gate needs replacing, and there's a few patches of rust on the edges of the rear quarter where they join the tailgate. I'll post a picture of it if you're interested. the locking mechanism is unreckognisable, it's just a mass ball of rust. When they're all striped down, can you see any of the actual chassis?

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    does anybody know a cheap place i can get replacement seats from, mine absolutely STINK!!!! Can't get rid of the smell! I also need something doing to the dash board, it smells too but it also looks very dirty and i can't make it look ok.

    Any ideas?

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    a small patch of rust on the bottom of the right side one
    Sounds like your cowl drain has dumped trash behind the sheet metal and it has accumulated over the years... and kept it nice and moist against the back of the metal. Result? Rust through.

    When you remove the wing (fender for US folks), you'll probably find a glob of some sort right behind that rust.

    Check these photo's out for what I did, which updates the Cowl Drain Tube to properly drain OUT of the fender.

    http://www.classiczcars.com/photopos...y.php?cat=3542

    HTH
    E

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    Does anyone know about having my dash re-skinned? or whatever? The cover of it stinks and is dirty and uncleanable (if that's a real word) and right hand drive dashes are very expensive from what i can find online so far.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mattbibbey View Post
    Does anyone know about having my dash re-skinned? or whatever? The cover of it stinks and is dirty and uncleanable (if that's a real word) and right hand drive dashes are very expensive from what i can find online so far.
    you could get a half or a full dash cover, or you could get a colorbonding spraypaint for interior trim peices in black, like this stuff, although i dont know about how to eliminate the smell
    http://www.blackdragonauto.com/icata...mages/0065.jpg
    Last edited by J Shara; 09-07-2009 at 01:06 PM.
    1973 HLS30-129971

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    ++++++++ HS30-H's Avatar
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    Matt,
    Enrique ( EScanlon ) is giving you some very good advice, so please be sure to take notice of it......

    As for your dash - I would recommend that you put it to one side and deal with it occasionally whilst you pay attention to the other ( BIG ) jobs that need doing on the car first. From the looks of it, I don't think you are going to need to re-fit it for a good while yet....

    I had a similar problem with a long-stored RHD dash that smelled bad and seemed to have all sorts of microscopic life growing on it. It was not cracked though, so the incentive to reclaim it was high and I persevered. After several months of occasional washing / intensive cleaning and feeding with Johnson's Baby Oil ( believe it or not ) it looked just great and smelled, well, of Baby Oil.

    You can get dashes re-skinned, but you can always tell ( and it's expensive ). I suggest you think about other more basic things on the car - like the structure, mechanicals and paint - before you worry too much about the trim and cosmetics that you will be re-fitting to it some time down the line.

    Have you got any literature that pertains to the cars? I'm talking about a proper Nissan-issued Factory Service Manual, and/or a Nissan Parts List? Both would answer a LOT of the kind of questions that you have already asked and will probably be asking here. There's also a really useful book titled "How To Restore Your Datsun Z Car" by Wick Humble, which - even though it is specific to the north American market models - can be a great aid and a good source of inspiration. Many of the parts and techniques in the book are also applicable to your UK market RHD car.

    You might also like to sign up as a member on the UK Z Club forum ( www.zclub.net ) for RHD-specific advise, parts and sympathy.

    And don't throw ANYTHING away yet!

    Alan T.

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    yeah i think you're right! There's a lot of crap that i can sense although i haven't seen it yet! The inside of the car is stripped now except the wiring at the back and i've even got all the sound deadening crap out too!

    With regards to the book mentioned, "how to restore your datsun Z car", where might I find this book, as you can tell, i am in need of direction on the order in which things should come off and stuff.

    I have the Haynes manual and the factory service manual/ workshop manual.

    I've also removed the carbs and manifold with all the stuff attatched to it today (took some doing) and i've loosened off the cam cover, i took it off briefly to have a look and it all looks good, no signs of wear or lack of oil, odd since the car has done 126,000 miles!

    the intake manifold was full of some crap that looked like sand and bread crumbs, it was going into the engine too.

    What am i to do if the chassis is rotten when i finally get to it? This is my biggest worry!!

    Cheers again guys

    Matt

    P.S. posted more pics.

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    Registered User mattbibbey's Avatar
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    Oh dear, I think this is bad.

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    can anyone tell me if this bad? (the picture above that is) I think it's the front sway bar, where it joins the chassis? Please correct me if i'm wrong, I still have an awful lot to learn!

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    Yes, that is bad!
    Arne - Former owner, HLS30-37705, 7/71, 905 Red
    Car blogs - 240Z - Porsche 911

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    I've been working on the premis that nothing is unfixable!

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    I'd agree. It can be fixed, with time, effort and new metal. Not many of us on the West coast of the USA would attempt to repair a car that far gone, there are still too many available that are better. But in other parts of the world, such as you in the UK or people in the USA rust belt, there may not be anything better available.
    Arne - Former owner, HLS30-37705, 7/71, 905 Red
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    yeah, fair one. I've just bought a mig welder so I should be able to do some of the welding jobs but i'll get help with the really structural stuff like this.

    Thanks for your comment, I love it when people say that it can be repaired! lol

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    Its bad but is not unfixable, cut it out and weld in new. Nothing on these cars is unfixable. Did you get your seat situation fixed? If not get new covers and new seat foam. A reliable source is www.classicdatsun.com he can also get you new diamond material and his door panel skins are awesome.

    Quote Originally Posted by mattbibbey View Post
    Oh dear, I think this is bad.

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    Thanks for the heads up!

    I have to agree with HS30 H- Alan, when he says that there are far more pressing issues that need my attention at the moment! It's a shame because the things that need fixing first aren't the ones that look the best haha.

    Oh well, i'm going to start practising with my mig welder next week, i have a spare full bottle and reel which i'm sure i won't need.

    There's a bit of metal directly above what i've taken this picture of, it's at the top of the wheel arch, it's totally rusted away. Does anyone know what i'm talking about?

    Also, does anyone have a diagram or picture showing the datsun 240Z chassis with everything else removed? I'd love to see it!

    Cheers guys

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    Default chassis pic

    Does this help?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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    Quote Originally Posted by jr260z View Post
    Does this help?
    Yes it does thanks. What's the bit above the front wheel arch? On my datsun, it's rusted to hell! Is it structural?

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    Quote Originally Posted by mattbibbey View Post
    What's the bit above the front wheel arch? On my datsun, it's rusted to hell! Is it structural?
    Matt,
    I think you're referring to what Nissan called the "Hood Ledge Reinforcements", and what have come to be known colloquially as the 'Air Tubes'.

    Reason they are called 'Air Tubes' is because they have a secondary function of ducting fresh air from the front of the car ( inlets are in the radiator core support, and plastic tubes connect them to these 'air tubes' inside the engine bay ) to the outlets under the dash, where they are turned on and off by pull/push knobs located either side. Take a look under the dash on the extreme left and right, and you will see the ducts, flaps, cables and knobs.

    However, the primary function of the 'air tubes' is to act as a front upper body structural member. So yes, they are structural, and very important. Road muck thrown up by the front wheels builds up on the top ledge of the air tubes, and eventually rots through them. If they are badly corroded on your car, then it can be a BIG job to repair / replace them. NOS panels can sometimes be found, but they are expensive and fairly complex to attach properly. Big structural repairs of the air tubes, front crossmember / rad support and front chassis rails really ought to be done on a jig.

    Here are some pics to illustrate the shape of the parts:
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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    Registered User mattbibbey's Avatar
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    Arrrrgh! Yes, that is exactly what i was talking about! Bad times for me ahead then. lol From what i can feel with my hand up in the arch, they're both totally knackered.

    Why is my Z fighting me so much?

    However, some good news, the clutch has bizarrely unsiezed itself. Does that sound surprising?

    Also, as recomended, i have bought a copy of " how to restore your datsun z car" by Wick Humble.

    Thanks again!

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    NUTs according to wife ChrisZ's Avatar
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    Matt, i did point out this thread for you Rust free cars for sale in UK i think it is time for you to contact PMAC from zclub.net and ask what he have, maybe you should consider to get a rust free US shell.

    Chris
    -73 240Z HLS30-171039
    -66 Roadster SPL311-05204

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    Yeah i did look when you first suggested but now i kind of like that when mine is finished, i'll be getting towards expert and will be able to do any job the car requires! Haha. But jokes aside, i am kind of enjoying it at the moment and it will be nice to know i did it all (with a little help from my friends at the classic z car club!!).

    I think i've discovered the worst of the rot now, it's all up front, the rear doesn't look half as bad from what i can see so far. Most of the bolt i'm trying to remove are VERY WELL SIEZED on but they're coming off slowly.

    My biggest problem is going to be sourcing parts. I recently bought something from the states and got hammered by revenue and customs. I realy need to find a Z suplier in the European Union to avoid the taxes. ANY IDEAS?

    Cheers again guys

    Matt

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    NUTs according to wife ChrisZ's Avatar
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    Matt, then you should try to find Roadster parts.

    It all depends on what parts you are after, Alan (HS30-H) already pointed you to z-club, there is a vendor Mr-F and there is PMAC, those two will be your best freinds for now.
    This is by far a great forum, but what i don't understand, is why you don't visit your local club.

    Chris
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    -66 Roadster SPL311-05204

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    Yes. My local club is the my next step. I've sent an email to the guy running the Z club of great britain so should hear back from him within a week hopefully.

    Since my last post earlier, i've taken out the rear glass and put in a safe place. I'd been worrying a bit breaking it accidentally during the work.

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    Default oh yea

    That's really bad, unless you like a car with no steering! You'll to replace that rail asap!
    1978 280z A/T, No. HLS30-457084, purchased 11/2002
    1972 240z A/T, No. HLS30-60614, purchased 11/2007

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    i've sourced a chassis rail/leg 300 british pounds from a uk company. Also stuff like the radiator support panel i'll be needing. they are about 300 UK pounds each, floor pans for 300 the pair,rear wheel arch repair panel 100. I don't think that's too expensive. (opinions please)

    Can anyone tell me their favourite method of extracting siezed nuts and bolts?

    I'm going to copper grease every nut and bolt that goes back on the car, does this make sense? I helped (actually i supplied the beers) when my mate was restoring a triumph tr6, he gave me the idea for the copper grease.

    Cheers

    Matt

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    Matt:
    I don't know if there are or are not any difficulties in receiving material from Canada. I preface my comments with that being said because you have an excellent source of NEW metal items from Charlie Osborne at Zedd Findings.
    http://www.datsunzparts.com/index.htm

    Presuming that there aren't any difficulties, (Don't they recognize the Queen?) then obtaining parts from Charlie may save you some money. Paying £300 is about $490 US, that's a LOT for shipping and handling, seeing as he sells his PAIR of floors for $300 US. You may want to do some more shopping.

    You may also find that some of the prices you are paying for those replacement parts may be for used parts, and although they ARE the "right size and shape", they are in fact, 30+ year old parts.

    Given that you will have to fit and adjust those used parts as much as you would have to fit and adjust NEW parts.... do you really need to question which way to go?

    The process your car requires is extensive. Many here in the US, due to the availability of donor cars and such would STILL not choose to tackle it. As such, you need to determine IF it is salvageable, and IF you want to do it.

    That being said, the next step is to not delude yourself on "repairing" marginal items. Some items simply need replacement. (Cue in Dr. McCoy: "She's DEAD, Matt!") Those are the ones that will take time and effort to locate.

    But, going on to the other questions:

    There is a product called KROIL, which as described by others is the BEST at penetrating rusted and seized nuts and bolts. There are also others that claim to have good success mixing Acetone and Automatic Transmission Fluid (not sure of the exact ratio). There are various other penetrating oil solutions that purport to free up seized bolts, with varying degrees of success.

    You need to note that at times, especially when the rust is as far advanced as the parts of your car you've highlighted are, that the bolt and nut have essentially BONDED beyond the scope of penetrating oil's effectiveness.

    At that point, simply drill and tap out the offending bolt.

    It is sometimes easier to start there from the beginning, but most like to snap off the bolt head before deciding that drilling and tapping is the way to go. I say this because it is easier to discern, mark and actually drill in the center of the bolt stem starting from a FLAT bolt head, than it is from the twisted remnant of the stem left sticking out of the nut. But that's just my experience, and I'll admit to giving the wrench / penetrating oil first licks before I decide to drill and tap.

    If I've decided to drill and tap, I typically start with a small diameter drill, and work my way up slowly through the range until I notice that I've reached the threads of the original nut. At that point, it is usually easier to remove the offending threaded remnant than to try to tap it. Once it's all removed, I run a thread chaser through to clean up the thread.

    The most important thing to remember, is to obtain a good set of taps and dies, so that your new threads are consistent and accurate. While a "cheap" set will work as thread chasers, they will wear out quickly and give you inaccurate results in the long run if you use them as actual TAPS and DIES.

    This also applies to your drill bits. Get a well stepped set of drill bits and you can slowly and surely eliminate the bad stem, without damaging the nut severely.


    I'm not familiar with copper grease, but I presume that it is similar to a product we have called Never-Seize.

    Never-Seize, or Anti-Seize Lubricant, is a good item to use.... with caution.

    I mention that because in the case of our Never-Seize... it is a silver colored grease that WILL, if you are NOT extremely and irrationally paranoid of it, "accidentally" get on your fingers... tools... and a myriad of other surfaces, such that you will be convinced that it will slowly but surely cover your entire car, garage, home and surrounding neighborhood; all with a thin film of silver tainted smudges. If the term "copper grease" denotes that it is a copper color instead of silver, well you may not find it as unpleasant... or it may drive you to swear off the stuff.

    What I'm trying to say, is that a very SMALL amount will go a long LO O O O N G way.

    Trust me when I say that you do NOT want your new carpet, seats, weatherstripping, all in a nice matte black.... sporting metal colored stains. The stuff will simply NOT wash or fade away.

    Hope this helps
    Enrique

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    Registered User mattbibbey's Avatar
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    Enrique, thanks very much, the copper grease of which i speak is actually copper based. I'm an armourer in the british army and it's something we use on large guns! The problem with buying anything from outside the European Union is that i will be charged VAT (value added tax) I don't mean to patronise but I don't know how your taxes work in the states. It's charged at 17% and includes the price of the postage which is outrageous!! So a pair of floor pans at 300 us plus about 80US for postage, I'd get charged 65 US on top by my glorious government! Having said that, I should get in contact and it might still work out cheaper than the place i've found!

    DSC_0679

    DSC_0675

    So, this is where i've got to today. I've removed the clutch and brake master cylinders and i've reconditioned the clutch cylinder already.

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    Registered User mattbibbey's Avatar
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    CAN ANYBODY TELL ME WHAT PARTS A DATSUN 260Z FROM 1978 AND A 240Z HAVE IN COMMON. WHAT ABOUT CHASSIS, DOORS, WINGS, REAR HATCH AND MECHANICALS?

    I've just found one on ebay and it's not much money. Was thinking I could use it as a donor car. It's less than a day to go so i'd appretiate your time!

    Thanks very much!

    Matt

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    NUTs according to wife ChrisZ's Avatar
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    Matt, there is no such thing as a -78 260Z in the US IIRC the doors won't fit, wings /fenders should and so should most mechanical parts.
    Have you Contacted PMAC?

    17% VAT is nothing, compared to the 25% we have to pay here and that is after import tax of 10%, but remember that what you pay isn't always the same as the declared value on the CI.
    Matt, don't rush, it is the expensive way to restore a Z, from time to time PPL in the US parts out Zed's, they can also provide you with the sheet metal you need, take your time mate.

    Chris
    -73 240Z HLS30-171039
    -66 Roadster SPL311-05204

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    Registered User mattbibbey's Avatar
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    so is it worth me buying it as a parts car? it's on £460 (roughly 740US) now and finishes tomorrow. It doesn't look too bad, it's definately a 260Z he must have put the date wrong. My Z's hood and tailgate need replacing so i figured that although it's a way off needing that stuff yet, it would be saving me in the end, plus i can sell what i don't need again on ebay.

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    NUTs according to wife ChrisZ's Avatar
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    Is this what you want to use as a donor ???.........

    Red 260Z
    Last edited by ChrisZ; 09-20-2009 at 02:32 AM.
    -73 240Z HLS30-171039
    -66 Roadster SPL311-05204

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    Registered User mattbibbey's Avatar
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    The link won't load for some reason. There is only one red 260Z for sale on UK ebay so if that's it then yes! It'll be worse than it looks but not worse than mine HAHAHA!

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    I tried to send this as a PM to HS30-H..

    Hello there,

    I wonder if I might pick your brains a little more...

    As you know ( because you've already been soooo helpful) I'm restoring my quite far gone '73 240Z and i'll be needing a new tail gate and bonnet among other things. I've found a 260Z (red) on ebay that finishes at 9 tonight and it doesn't look too bad. It's fairly cheap and i thought that it would save me the money for those items in the long run. Will the rear hatch and bonnet and stuff like that fit on my Z? Also i figured it's never a bad thing to have spare glass, accident do happen haha.

    I'd be very grateful for your time once again,

    Matt

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    I didn't buy it. Couldn't assertain whether or not the hatch and bonnet would fit. Oh well. Always on the lookout will be another mantra i suppose...

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    Matt,
    I'm sorry I could not answer you more promptly, as I was away for a few days and am now trying to catch up.

    I'm glad that you didn't buy the 260Z that was on ebay, as I think it would have been a mistake. Yes, the bonnet and tailgate from that late 260Z would have fitted your 240Z, but the doors would not. Cutting it up to use as a donor for chassis / bodyshell parts would have been a lot of work, and many of the sections are different anyway - even if they were sound enough to be used.

    Have you uncovered the 'air tubes' on your car yet? I'm afraid that if the rot is as bad as you describe ( you mentioned the radiator support panel is bad too ) then you might need to sit down and think about this car as too much of a moneypit to be worth continuing with. Even if you do find the chassis rails, air tubes, rad support and other sheetmetal that you need, it all still needs to be attached properly and you still end up with something made Frankenstein style. It will cost thousands, for sure, and then you need to paint and trim it.....

    My advice would be for you to consider sourcing a similar-year car with a sound bodyshell to put the RHD parts from the green car onto. If you source a complete LHD car, you will be able to 're-shell' your RHD and save a lot of time and money into the bargain. In the long run, you will be left with something that is better than the possibility of a patched-up mess or even an uncompleted project ( been there, done that! ).

    There's what I think is a good candidate on ebay in the UK at the moment: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...=STRK:MEWAX:IT

    Although I don't know what that car will eventually sell for ( possibly around £3,000? ) I think it would not take long for you to spend the same amount on your car and for it still to be no better. A pair of good, sound and unrusty 240Z doors will easily change hands for £600 in the UK these days. Add in a sound bonnet and hatch lid and you'll have no change out of £1,000. Professional repair of your originals will likely cost just as much, if not more.

    I'm betting that most of the suspension components, brackets and pipes on your UK car will also be pretty much rotten. The USA car would likely be much better in that respect too. Don't underestimate what the whole thing can end up costing you if you go ahead with the rusty UK car.

    Sorry to sound like the messenger of doom, but I'd like to try to guide you away from taking on something that you might never be happy with.

    Cheers,
    Alan T.

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    I think Alan might be on to something. I am shocked by the rust in your car. If you are willing to do all the welding in of the new parts and spend the money then go for it.

  52. #52
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    I couldn't agree more alan! And no worries about the reply. I was doubting whether or not to buy it at an early stage any way lol.

    The more time i spend on the car the more encouraging, rust free stuff i find. I believe that i've discovered the worst of it now so that's the air tubes ( which may be repairable, i think they're holed and not totally shot away), that front right chassis member that the picture shows by the sway bar, the floor pans and the rad support panel, small patches under the drip rail above the doors. other than that there's just the odd small bit here and there.

    My doors are in mint nick with not a patch of rust on them. The wings are rust free too. The car going backwards from the fire wall really, isn't too shabby. The only rust visible from inside the car is the floorpans, granted they're pretty bad.

    I'm in the fortunate postition where my friend (also in the army) and his father, used to restore classic cars for a living so they will help me free of labour charge as his old man is retired now and it will keep him occupied. Plus if i need a cash injection, i can always volunteer for a tour of afghanistan! I have to go anyway, might as well use the money for good. Haha.

    I am a realist and i fully understand the implications of all that needs to be done so i haven't ruled out the idea of getting a different car.

    I am quite overwhelmed by everyones help and advice so i thank you all!

    Matt

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    The air tubes on my car were fairly rotted too, but i got the ones currently on the car from my parts car, i shelled out i think around a grand just for the body shop guys to cut these off the orange car and weld them to the white car.
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    1973 HLS30-129971

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    when i finally get the wings off my car, and everything else, how do i go about cutting out the old chassis legs and welding in the new ones? i'm a competent welder but i'm not sure on the best method and order to do it. If anyone has done this before i'd be grateful for some pointers!

    Matt

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    Ahhh... English terms and Yank terms.

    I know "wings" = "fenders", but am at a loss to for "legs". Unless you're referring to an old ZZTop song, in which case I'd suppose you're referring to the tires (tyres?).

    I'm not trying to be offensive, but could you elucidate on "legs", that being the term that has me at a loss.

    In very broad general terms, measure between key alignment points, measure and compare to the FSM (Factory Shop Manual) dimension sheet... you may have to do some basic number crunching, and clamp, support and otherwise rig up a frame to hold it all together before you do your first spot weld to hold in position. Then once you've done enough of these to hold the pieces in position, re-measure and adjust if necessary.

    With your experience as an armourer, you know that it only takes a gnat's width to cause problems.

    Hope this helps.
    E

  56. #56
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    Yes, unfortunately i do know only too well about small things making big problems haha!!

    The leg i was refering to is the front portion of the chassis member, the part running from the front towing eyes to the floor pan supports. The part that includes the sway bar bracket, the engine mounting brackets and so on. I found some from a UK company fpr 300 pounds each. datsun 240Z parts aren't common here.

    Thanks for the heads up about measuring before and after the spot welds! Probably would have overlooked that.

    Thanks

    Matt

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    Not sure if I mentioned that I may (perhaps only in the short term) rescued my dash board. I used some boot polish, it isn't sticky or slippery but i'm going to leave a test piece in the sun for a couple of days. See how it turns out. Any other ideas?

  58. #58
    Supporting Member EScanlon's Avatar
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    Wear dark clothing when you're near your dash.

    Seriously, if your UK boot polish is anything like the boot polish I remember from my Air Force (US) days, there's a bunch of wax and other petroleum distillates in it. As such, when it gets HOT, as black tends to do, it will get soft (unless it is an extremely thin film) and smudge anything that comes near it.

    As an alternative, don't use anything with Silicone in it. Here in the US we have Armor All, which DOES have Silicone Oil in it.

    Armor All unless it is used.... religiously, that is, on a very strict and fixed schedule, is NOT good for vinyl. There will be those who swear by it... I used to myself. The problem isn't WHILE you are using it.... it's when you don't do it for some time. Kind of like Heroin... you think everything is psychedelic and cool... until you go cold turkey. Then the problems creep in, cracks, shrinking, discoloration, chalkiness... need I go further?

    I've been using several products to try to ascertain the one that gives the best result, and while results vary, others have their choices as well. That we're on different sides of the "pond" (and I'm on the "left" side of the US as well ...on the map not politically), makes it difficult to recommend one product over another.

    Turtle Wax used to sell a product called Clear Guard. Excellent stuff, lasted forever... they took it off the market... poor sales, the product was too good. Clear Guard left a nice matte shine that repelled dust, lint and lasted for MONTHS.

    POR-15 sells one called Boss Gloss... again very nice, but don't put it on anything you don't want to be extremely slippery... seats, steering wheels, rubber foot pads, you get the idea. Doesn't last very long, but it gives an outstanding shine... but it IS shiny, and IMO seems to catch small dust particles easily.

    Protectant 302 is purported as SPF 30 for vinyl. I bought it at a shop that sells Hot Tubs, Vinyl Pools and the like. What I've seen I've liked. Lasts a good time, and you usually find yourself re-applying because it looks good and not because it's faded away (except for seats which are being wiped down with your clothing... no stains or problems there either).

    Meguia's Leather and Vinyl Protectant is also an easy to apply and use product. I've used this on the Roadster's vinyl top with good results and haven't found a need to switch, it's also relatively inexpensive compared to the other ones. Biggest drawback seems to be that after a week or so, it tends to "evaporate" and leave a non-shiny surface which will show you how evenly you did or did not apply it.

    Mother's also has a Leather and Vinyl product, but I have not tried it yet.

    Others will no doubt chime in with their preferences and why.

    But to clean off your dash board, use some Mineral Spirits (oil-based paint thinner) NOT Lacquer Thinner (that would dry out the vinyl), then use a soft spray on degreaser like Simple Green, or the like to remove the last of the oily residue. Apply your vinyl cleaner/conditioner and you should have a nice finish.

    FWIW
    E
    Last edited by EScanlon; 10-04-2009 at 10:56 AM.

  59. #59
    Registered User mattbibbey's Avatar
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    Well i'll definately be able to get hold of the meguia's product range so i'll keep it in mind so thanks.

    Does anyone know a person who wouldn't rip me off for all the kits that i need to recondition the brake master, clutch master, brake calipers, and so on and so on? Alternatively, does anyone have these items they'd sell to me?

  60. #60
    NUTs according to wife ChrisZ's Avatar
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    Once again i have to send you to Zclub and get hold of mister F, he is a vendor there and being you are in the UK, i think it will be your best choice.
    He have a exchange rate that is 1:1 but he takes care of tax and shipping from US, it's not my first choice and that is because i have to pay international shipping once more if i buy from him.

    Chris
    -73 240Z HLS30-171039
    -66 Roadster SPL311-05204

  61. #61
    Registered User mattbibbey's Avatar
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    This was only really an option for me last year. In order for me to now buy a rust free californian car and convert it to right hand drive would be far beyond my finacial means lol. I had a quote for left to right conversion last year of £2000. Then i'd have to buy a car, ship it here and pay all the taxes, duties and any other charges, i'm a soldier, i can't afford it! ( sadly)

    So in light of all that i feel that i HAVE to crack on and make do with what i have. To that end I've been in contact with a company called Fourways Engeneering. They have a lot of experience with Z's but also Classic Aston Martins and Ferraris, so they're obviously good. To fix the two floor pans, the two front chassis member/rails and the radiator core support panel he has quoted me £1600 for the manufacture and about £2000 for the labour cost. This sounds like a lot but i suppose that a rust free 240Z chassis is worth more than what it will have cost me to that point. My next tour of Afghanistan will pay for it.

    At the moment I've been struggling to find places to do the work in the UK. If anyone else has had any structural work done on their Z in the UK i'd appretiate some numbers! haha. So far I've found Auto-active ( based in bristol), Fourways Engeneering and the Z farm ( based in Yorkshire). The Z farm have sold a few of their fully restored cars for £23,000+ ! these Z's are getting rare over here i guess.

    Thanks again for taking the time to read and respond!!

    Matt

  62. #62
    Registered User mattbibbey's Avatar
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    I have encountered another problem tonight! Shock! I'm trying to get the tail lights off the car but the screws just turn and turn. I can see the end of it that's outside and it is turning also. I'm not sure what to do. My rear panel is rust free so i don't want to damage that and the european tail lights are about 200 pounds ( 320 US) each so as you can imagine, i don't want to damage those either! I would get a junior hacksaw in there and saw the heads off the screws but as you know there isn't enough room.

    Grateful for ideas. Hope someone has done this before.

    Matt

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    Supporting Member EScanlon's Avatar
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    What you see turning from the outside, are acorn nuts. The sides of their individual pockets in the light housings are supposed to hold them fast while you insert/remove the screws that hold the light in place.

    Unfortunately, sometimes the nuts get corroded in place on the screw and you have your result, a spinning nut that is stronger than the surrounding plastic which is supposed to hold it firm.

    If the condition of your light gaskets is such that there isn't anything to save, then peel off the rubber around the nut and insert a flat tipped screwdriver, or if you have a long needle nose pair of pliers use it to grip the nut with them. Then you can, hopefully, unscrew the lights from the body.

    The nuts are encased in the plastic, which might mean you will have to remove them once you have the lights out. It's tricky, but you can do it.

    HTH
    E

  64. #64
    Registered User mattbibbey's Avatar
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    yeah, i've got a pair of snipe nose pliers but it's difficult to get them far enough into that reccess to grip the acorn nut. I'll keep trying but i think the nuts are siezed on too which is always helpful haha! As long i'm not the only one who struggles with these things I don't mind so much.

    Cheers

    Matt

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    Sadly no, you're not the only one that has had their share of "fun" with those.

    You might get a grip on them, and see if by "tightening" them just a tad, you might break the screw loose from the nut and can then remove the screw normally.

    It's not impossible to remove them, just a regular Pain In The Arse (PITA).

    E

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    ++++++++ HS30-H's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattbibbey View Post
    To that end I've been in contact with a company called Fourways Engeneering. They have a lot of experience with Z's but also Classic Aston Martins and Ferraris, so they're obviously good. To fix the two floor pans, the two front chassis member/rails and the radiator core support panel he has quoted me £1600 for the manufacture and about £2000 for the labour cost. This sounds like a lot but i suppose that a rust free 240Z chassis is worth more than what it will have cost me to that point. My next tour of Afghanistan will pay for it.
    Matt,
    Geoff and his team at Fourways Engineering are good friends of mine, and I'd certainly recommend their work - as long as you don't ask them to cut any corners due to costs. They know what they are doing, and have done the same repairs on many similar UK market cars. To repair it all properly, and with structural integrity as well as accuracy, is a really big job.

    They replaced the floors on my Fairlady Z-L project car some years ago, and did lots of other prep work on the body before they painted it. You'd be very welcome to come over to my garages and see the car in person if you have time.

    I've got a good bonnet and tailgate that you could buy if you really think you need them. No need to take them yet, as they are not going anywhere ( they are hanging on the garage wall ) and you will need to do lots of other work before you need them. They are there for when you need them.

    I'm still worried about the true condition of the air tubes / upper supports. Have you investigated them fully yet?

    Cheers,
    Alan T.

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    Registered User mattbibbey's Avatar
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    Alan,

    Really grateful ( as always) for your comment and offer of a good sale! I will definately take you up on both offers. But, like you said, i've got it all to do first. Bonnet and tailgate are a low priority. Geoff at fourways seemed like a nice guy and i looked at their website. If someone trusts them with their Aston Martin DB4, then they must be really good. And like you said, I don't want any corners cut. I want a really good, original example of a 240Z. If that costs me an enormous amount then (grudgingly) so be it!

    At the moment, i'm still struggling with the wings, a few of the bolts sheered off and others just won't budge. I'm going to have to cut off the bolts securing the front of the wings to the headlight cowl and the bit underneath that. But it's a bit tricky in my small garage lol.

  68. #68
    Registered User mattbibbey's Avatar
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    What part of london are you in?

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    ++++++++ HS30-H's Avatar
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    The cars are garaged in the N13 postcode, and I live just a few miles down the road now.

    Quite easy for you to get to I think. Take the M40 down to M25, go clockwise, off at Junction 24 and then south on A111, which takes you all the way there. Drop me a PM here if you want to set something up date / time wise.

    Cheers,
    Alan T.

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    Alan,

    N13, is that Enfield? I'm thinking about getting the whole car dipped in whatever it is that stripps all the paint and rust off. A friend of mine had his 60's dub camper van dipped and he was really pleased with it. Obviously my engine and everything else would be out. Is there any good reason why i shouldn't do this?

    Cheers

    Matt

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    Those siezed acorn nuts holding the tail lights in are not budging! I'm going to have to cut the screw heads off to get them out. Any ideas how i can do that. It'll be very difficult to reach the ones at the bottom edge of the lights.

    Cheers

    Matt

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    I don't know what tools you have available to you, nor if some of the names I will use will "translate".

    When I had this same problem on my 71 refresh years ago (8 or so), I used a DREMEL tool with it's cable attachment in conjuction with a needle nose VISE-GRIP. (I used caps on the brand names that have become accepted as identifying the tool. I'll presume you know them by such, or if not you can look them up by those names.)

    The Dremel was used to grind out the indent in the screw head to ease the introduction of a drill bit. Then I replaced the grinding stone attachment with a drill bit until the screw head was removed. The Vise-Grips were used to grasp the screw head while I ground and drilled.

    That was the procedure on the hard to reach screws (the lower and extreme outside). The easier to reach ones, I was able to grind off the screw head with a 4" Grinder and a cut-off wheel disk. I also tried the Dremel with cut off wheels, but ended up chewing up a lot of wheels and little progress, your results could differ.

    In both cases, while the screw head WILL get very hot, try to minimize the length of time you grind so that it won't melt the plastic base of the light.

    I wish there were an easier way, but there isn't. Sadly, with the fuel vapor hoses, the supports for the tail-lamp plastic cover and the hatch shelf overhang.... it's a very tight fit.

    Hope this helps.
    Enrique

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    It does, thanks! I've got a mains electric powered drill with the cable thing so i'll try that. Also my grinder will work ( i hope) on the easier to reach ones.

    I haven't even started to remove the stuff under the car! Like the fuel tank, any running gear oh god!! AND the engine. Aarrgh!

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    Well, the car tried to kill me a couple of times last night. I was removing the bonnet (hood), and the car tried to swallow me whole!! haha. Now I must start with those blasted wings! I won't let them defeat me again!

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    Ok, update time. The bonnet and tailgate are off now. I can properly see the the radiator support panel. It's a bit lacy. None of it is distorted so replacing it won't be too challenging. The radiator itself is in a good state. The underside and outside edge of the airtubes looks ok, it'll just be the top that's in a bad way I reckon. I've removed the exhaust system and it's going in a skip. (I wanted a stainless one anyway.) I've drained the fuel tank so that's next to come off. The fuel was really red, a cross between red diesel and red wine!! Wierd. Now I'm struggling to release the wing from the headlight cowl. I know how, it's just siezed like everything else. lol

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    so. Now the radiator is off! Had to use a nut splitter.

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    Anyone know where I might get replacement airtubes?

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    Registered User mattbibbey's Avatar
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    anyone know where i can get a pair of air tubes?

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    NUTs according to wife ChrisZ's Avatar
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    Look on ebay.com, ive seen one a few days ago

    Here is the listing http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/DATSU...Q5fAccessories
    Last edited by ChrisZ; 11-07-2009 at 04:14 PM.
    -73 240Z HLS30-171039
    -66 Roadster SPL311-05204

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    thank you.

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    doors are off. all the fitting that hold the fuel lines to the chassis are siezed on so thats a lot of fun at the moment.

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    does anyone know anything about distinctive industries? I found them online and their seat covers look good, but so do the blackdragon auto ones which i have heard some bad things about. Any help would be appretiated.

    Cheers guys!

    Matt

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    I can't see any photos of there seat covers, please link us up.

    You should try to contact Les at CDM

    Chris
    -73 240Z HLS30-171039
    -66 Roadster SPL311-05204

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    sorry guys. don't know how to do links. I've got the front left wing/fender off now finally. That was a hell of a job. The part of the airtube on the outside of the mud/crap guard has holes in it but they're only on the top of it. The cavity in the airtube just in front of the door is full of rat bedding! There will be a couple of pictures to come. Tommorrow probably.

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    Matt have you looked at getting parts from Australia? There it tons of stuff over there that hasn't rotted away and they never seem to crush anything. Shipping from Aus to Canada is fairly reasonable so I'm assuming it would be similar or better to England...

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    I hadn't given Oz much thought actually. Is it a untapped resource? Do you have any good contacts there?

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    Mate I live in Australia and I don't think there's much left, I even bought doors from the US because I couldn't find anything decent over here. Parts are getting harder and harder to find.

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    Registered User mattbibbey's Avatar
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    does anyone who has restored a wreck 240Z before live any where near me in Oxfordshire?

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    Registered User mattbibbey's Avatar
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    an almost entirely rust free rear end

    I have just uploaded some new pictures, they in "My Z Photos" now.

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    ++++++++ HS30-H's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattbibbey View Post
    does anyone who has restored a wreck 240Z before live any where near me in Oxfordshire?
    Matt,
    As mentioned before, you would be welcome to come and see the contents of my garages when you want. Should be some good reference material for you there; One car that's completed a body resto ( painted by Fourways too - a nice job ) and one that's just starting out on one ( a totally stripped body on trestles ), plus one that's pretty much 'on the road'. The car on trestles has some similar issues to yours, but is certainly worth saving - and it will be saved.

    I could come to have a look at yours some time in mid January, if that would be convenient with you. I'm in Japan for the first two weeks of the year, and it's a bit cold and dark here at the moment anyway, isn't it?!

    By the way, I've looked at the pics you have uploaded and - if it's any consolation - I've seen far, far worse. It's definitely worth saving I think. It can be done. Have faith!

    Cheers,
    Alan T.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mattbibbey View Post
    I hadn't given Oz much thought actually. Is it a untapped resource? Do you have any good contacts there?
    Which parts do you need Matt? there's a 240/260 wrecking near my house which Ill be giving it a visit soon. Shipping might be a bint though.

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    Lubu, the problem at the moment is that I'm just not sure what the hell i need exactly at the moment! lol. Some things that look beyond repair might not be and vice verser! But thank you for the info on that Z in your area!

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    Did you try to start your engine to see if it ran right before you started tearing her down, it would be shame to put those nice new webers on and then find out that it has a blown rear crank seal or something.
    1973 HLS30-129971

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    well it turned over fine, no problems there but it wouldn't start. I'm going to renovate the engine anyway, a friend of mine is a good mechanic with quite a bit of experience on classic engines but not body work. shame lol. i think the years in that barn have not been kind to any part of the car. As Alan said before, I have faith!

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    Yea, from what i can see from your pictures, you car isnt really that bad, i would say that the front structural members of your car as well as the air tubes are about as bad as mine were, as for your interior though, those rats probably trashed it. Also, i had trouble with those damn acorn nuts in the tail lights too, i wound up just pulling them out of the plastic with vice grips.
    1973 HLS30-129971

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    When you pulled the acorn nuts out, did it damage the plastic? I can't get to some of the screw heads with my angle grinder and I really don't want to put holes in the rear panel, it's one of the few parts that actually good! lol

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    Why don't you get a Dreml

    Chris
    -73 240Z HLS30-171039
    -66 Roadster SPL311-05204

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    i've got one of those as well it's just finding a decent grinding head for it. I've bought some real crap on ebay. Unfortunately soldiering keeps me away from the shops!

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    Hi Matt, One of my cars is down in Pangbourne if you want to come over and take a look around a fully restored Z. Possibly if there's no salt on the roads over the next few weeks I could take a drive up to you as well. I would also take up Alan's offer and go over to his garage, I am sure it would be well worth the trip! Also Fourways are good guy's so you won't go wrong with their work.

    C

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    Registered User mattbibbey's Avatar
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    Charlie, is your pangbourne the one that about a twenty minute drive away from me in Abingdon? If so I'd like to take you up on your offer. At the moment it looks like I'm going to have a very busy year haha.

    I have heard nothing but good things about Fourways and they've been around doing Z's for a long time haven't they.

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