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Thread: 920 Gold

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    Registered User JohnnyO's Avatar
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    Default 920 Gold

    I am a little confused. I was at a local paint dealer talking about ppg paints and have decided to go with the DP line of epoxy primers (I have already acid etched the car) and I had a sample of the 920 Gold made up from the PPG formula in the computer. I brought it home and applied some to an area that did not get sunlight of the last 40 years and the color was alot browner than the stock color.

    To be honest it looks a lot different than alot of the 920 Gold cars I see online. I also hear it refered to as Safari Gold.

    Is Safari Gold and 920 Gold the same color or was the early series 1 gold different than the 71 920 gold?

    Thanks,

    John

  2. #2
    Mike B
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    Safari gold is Datsun code 920 and it is the same for all 1970-71 cars. Another member TVollnogle had this same issue recently. I know he had to work with his painter to get the right color match, but I'm not sure what the solution was. Send him a PM in case he doesn't see this.

    -Mike
    Last edited by Mike B; 09-12-2009 at 08:04 PM.

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    Semi-retired admin Arne's Avatar
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    Much has changed in the chemical makeup of paint over the past 4 decades. A formula that was passably close 30 years ago may not look so good when used with today's paints. Safari Gold is not the only color that suffers from this problem, most if not all of them do.

    In my case, my painter started with a commercial formula for 905 red, but then custom tinted it to match the underside of the toolbox lids. The results were quite good.
    Arne - Former owner, HLS30-37705, 7/71, 905 Red
    Car blogs - 240Z - Porsche 911

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    John,

    As Mike said, I experienced this several months back with the 920 Safari Gold and could write a book on what I went through. I'll post here later today on my experience and resolution. At the time, it was suggested by several that I start a thread about it but I never got it done.

    Terry
    Terry Vollnogle
    Grand Rapids, MI
    '70 240Z #3212

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    HLS30-079101 Zak's Z's Avatar
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    110 Red is another color that isnt quite right when mixed with todays paints. I didnt have a sample so I'll have to live with 'close enough'.
    Zak

    HLS30-79101
    Work in progress.

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    Registered User TVollnogle's Avatar
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    Hi All,

    I’ll try to give the short version of my paint color experience.

    I had decided to paint my formerly orange ’70 240Z with 920 Safari Gold during restoration since I had a ’71 Z back in the early ‘70’s that was 920. Since my painter uses Dupont paints, that is what I went with. I had wavered between single stage and 2 stage (basecoat/clearcoat) but in the end decided to use 2K single stage, then color sand and polish.

    I took the body to my painter on the rotisserie and he shot the interior and engine compartment. After seeing the color, I was of the opinion that it was darker than I remembered the 920 being. I contacted Carl Beck and Jim Frederick down in Florida and sent color samples to them for an opinion. After comparing the samples to other 920 cars (Jim has one original and one of the Z Program cars), they both thought it was too dark.

    I contacted Pierre at Pierre Z Car and Les Canaday at Classic Datsun since they had been involved in the Z Program cars. They said that they used Dupont paint on the Program cars and both gave me the same formula:

    920 Safari Gold:

    DMA 383 40.0
    DMA 311 100.0
    DMA 346 180.0
    DMA 329 1030.0

    Les still had a Nissan supplied 920 Safari Gold paint color sample with the formula on the back. They were to use it as quality control for checking that the colors were coming out correctly on the Program cars.

    During this process, my painter was having the Dupont rep mix different samples to try to come up with the correct color. I lost track of how many we did.

    In the end, I sent a sample board of the 920 in Dupont ChromaSystem basecoat/clearcoat (mixed with the above formula) to Les and he compared it to his sample board from Nissan. He said it was as close as you could hope to get it.

    I ended up reshooting the engine compartment with Chroma One single stage, but used the ChromaSystem basecoat/clearcoat on the body since I knew from Les that it was correct. I didn’t want to risk another color variation due to changing paint systems. The reality is, now that the body is painted, the engine compartment in single stage and the body in 2 stage appear to be the same.

    The problem with the original single stage being dark was that my painter had used another Dupont poly line (can’t remember which one) and due to the different base for mixing, the color didn’t come out the same as the original color like the Chroma line did. Dupont called the paint a “blendable color”, meaning it might not be dead on but should blend in when doing repair work. In my opinion: not so.

    If you have any questions, contact me.

    Terry
    Terry Vollnogle
    Grand Rapids, MI
    '70 240Z #3212

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    Administrator bpilati's Avatar
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    This is great, because my Z is in the paint shop right now. They use Glasurit paints, and I just dug up the formula for 920 on the Glasurit website. So what I'm hearing is that the formula will likely not match the original color? This is going to be a long job too, they're going to strip in down and repaint. The guy also doesn't work on the car 8 hours/day because their other work comes first. I need to find the paint formula for the rear light trim panels.
    Bryan Pilati
    1971 Datsun 240Z (8/71; 920 paint)
    IZCC #583; TZCC #16; CZC #110
    I'm never serious unless I should be.

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    Registered User JohnnyO's Avatar
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    I dont have the code for the rear panels but Les at Classicdatsun.com does have the paint in rattle cans.

    PPG lists the 920 gold as 71/72. I am pretty sure it was a 70/71 color but cant find that chip.

    Hope that helps.

    John

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    Registered User JohnnyO's Avatar
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    BPilati: Here is the link to the ppg chips online:

    http://www.tcpglobal.com/aclchip.asp...atsun-pg01.jpg

    Terry, Thanks for the help. I might have to consider Dupont instead of ppg if that is the best match. I had a sample of the PPG mixed and it too appeared too dark.

    Thanks all.

    John

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    Supporting Member Diseazd's Avatar
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    Brian.....I have a PPG chip(Safari Gold) for my 71........looks pretty close to the original to me and my painter......you can buy a pint and shoot a chip......remember 35 years of fading makes comparison difficult. Also, Chuck hasn't jammed anything yet.....will pass it on when he starts shooting. Guy
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    long time owner a7dz's Avatar
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    I learned that there are two different paint formulas out there in the PPG world. Caused by EPA taking different chemicals out. The first 918 we mixed was no where close and the second one was spot on. The second one had some additives to get the color back. Did the mix a pint and see trick. In the end I think it was money well spent. I did use a single stage paint color sanded and polished it.
    Jim
    Bought my 70Z at 21 with 24,000 miles
    Still own it. Thirty plus years later.


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    Hey, JohnnyO!!
    We stumbled across your thread and have an input. Color code #920, Safari Gold (which we always called Butterscotch) goes at least all the way back to 1969 Z #HLS30-00013 (which is that color), and was a popular color till the end of the 1971 model year production. It didn't carry over to the '72's. I can't say if any of the prototypes or mules were #920 or not, the only one I know among the first 12 is #00006 which was originally #908 dark green. This doesn't help match your paint, but we just thought you'd like to know.
    All the best, Kathy & Rick

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    Registered User JohnnyO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by a7dz View Post
    I did use a single stage paint color sanded and polished it.
    That brings me to my next question:

    What are the drawbacks (if any) to using a single stage paint? I was thinking of going that route with a high quality paint.

    John

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    Registered User JohnnyO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kathy & Rick View Post
    Color code #920, Safari Gold (which we always called Butterscotch) goes at least all the way back to 1969 Z #HLS30-00013 (which is that color), and was a popular color till the end of the 1971 model year production. It didn't carry over to the '72's.
    I am thinking that it shows up in the PPG computer because they probably didnt have a formula for the year it was released by Datsun. I would imagine that with the popularity of the Z came the mad rush to supply paint for them as "rookie" drivers learned how to drive them and probably all to often wrecked them. That still doesnt explain why the link at TPC Global:

    http://www.tcpglobal.com/aclchip.asp...atsun-pg01.jpg

    only shows the available year as 71.

    I know it was available in for 1970 model year cars. My car is fully documented back to the purchase and the color on the warranty book is 920 Gold, as are the floor boards, rear strut towers and deck, etc. I removed the vinyl inside (another thread to be started soon ) and found some very nice paint that has not seen the light of day in almost 40 years. I used my razor to pull a 1x1 chip up and off to the paint store I went. I hit the closest CarQuest that mixes paint just to see if they could analyze the sample and compare it to the computer formula. I got the feeling that they didn't even want to help me out. (they must have known that I wouldn't buy from them in the end) They told me that my chip was too small. So I said to the guy, "you mean I can go to Home depot with a sample about as big as my pinky finger nail and they can acurately match it but you cant do it with a 1x1 chip?" He just smiled and said "our analyzer needs a bigger chip."

    I packed up and left. My sample will accompany me to the closest commercial paint distributor this week. I talked to them on the phone and they too show Gold 920 as a 71/72 color. I corrected the salesman and asked if he could analyze it and he said he could. He was at $387 for a gallon of Deltron 2000 + reducer ($46.00/QT) + clear ($156.15).

    After seeing the formula posted above I am thinking about going with Dupont. I know there are a lot of oppinions on paint but can anybody give me a reason not to use Dupont vs. PPG? I plan on using the top of the line (or close to it) in either brand, I just want the correct color.

    Sorry it got so winded and thanks again to all,

    John

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    Registered User TVollnogle's Avatar
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    I wouldn't assume that PPG is going to be off just because of my Dupont experience. As a7dz said, he hit it right on with one of the formulas.

    If it was me, I'd shoot some samples and compare them to a known correct color. You could contact Les Canaday and see if he'd compare a sample to his Nissan supplied sample if you sent it to him.

    John, the reason I was going to go with the single stage and then polish was to stay close to the original style of paint. I was advised by several painters that the single stage would achieve that better. I feared that the basecoat/clearcoat would look too "artificial" but that is not the case. I'm pleased with the results. I did polish the clearcoat.

    Also, I have a formula for the rear light trim panel paint. Dupont converted it for me from a different paint line formula I found in one of the forums here. In the end, I didn't feel it was cost-effective to mix it and just bought the spray cans from Les Canaday.

    Terry
    Terry Vollnogle
    Grand Rapids, MI
    '70 240Z #3212

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    Administrator bpilati's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny'O View Post
    BPilati: Here is the link to the ppg chips online:

    http://www.tcpglobal.com/aclchip.asp...atsun-pg01.jpg

    Terry, Thanks for the help. I might have to consider Dupont instead of ppg if that is the best match. I had a sample of the PPG mixed and it too appeared too dark.

    Thanks all.

    John
    Thanks John. Good god that 920 gold isn't even close. It's closer to orange. I'm pretty certain gold was not available in 72.
    Bryan Pilati
    1971 Datsun 240Z (8/71; 920 paint)
    IZCC #583; TZCC #16; CZC #110
    I'm never serious unless I should be.

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    Terry, I see you painted the wheel wells too. Is that a stock thing or were they just over sprayed originally. When I stripped mine I thought there was a light overspray of topcoat followed by a black paint of some sort (not undercoating) followed by red-oxide.

    I was thinking painting them black for contrast. Probably use POR products.

    John

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    Pardon the poor images, but I do not have a quality scanner at hand.

    The DuPont Color card, page A-75354 listed the Paint Code 920 as follows:
    Lucite Code: 8717L
    Centari Code: 8717A
    Dulux Code: 8717D

    Keith
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    John,

    I had this discussion about the undercarriage with Carl Beck within the last year when I was getting ready to paint. I'll take the liberty of quoting him since this is just informational:

    Hi Terry:
    Your observation is correct. The undercarriage was sprayed with a very light coat of paint the same color as the body. When new, the paint under the car almost looked like an overspray - somewhat flat or dull, not a shinny paint job like the the top of the car.

    Most of the 69 and first few months of 1970 production cars had no undercoating other than in the wheel wells... we aren't certain when the factory started also coating the floorboards, but most Series I cars built after 06/71 have had it.

    The factory undercoat was a very fine grain, rubberized type, sprayed on the prime coat and then painted over to match the car. Usually it extends up into the transmission tunnel - but not clear around the tranny.

    All this was done, before the fuel and brake lines were installed and before the suspension was put on the car. Most of the suspension components were simi-gloss to gloss black (gloss black on the fuel tank). There is an access pannel in the right rear wheel well - three or four screws hold it in place. That one panel seemed to painted with the same paint used on the body.. it was far more shinny and better finished than the wheel well itself.
    Carl

    What I ended up doing was spraying the entire undercarriage with Zero Rust. I then sprayed it with tintable bedliner material tinted to 920. The color comes out slightly milky looking which I was told it would. It is not a noticeable difference with the wheels on and sitting on the ground.

    Terry
    Terry Vollnogle
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    '70 240Z #3212

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    Here are some pictures of the undercoating (bedliner).

    Terry
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    Terry Vollnogle
    Grand Rapids, MI
    '70 240Z #3212

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    ZCCIV Webmaster motorman7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TVollnogle View Post
    Here are some pictures of the undercoating (bedliner).

    Terry
    Wow, that looks awesome!

    I will try and post some pics of my 920 undercarriage and wheel wells this Friday. It is all original and the build is 3/70. All still in very good condition. It is as Carl described in the earlier post.
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    HLS30-079101 Zak's Z's Avatar
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    Lookin' good Terry, you've got alot done since I saw you last.
    Zak

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    Work in progress.

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    The decision to use single stage paint vs. basecoat/clearcoat may also depend on how you intend to use your car. Rock chips/dents/dings will be easier to touch up with a single stage paint. So, single stage may be better for a car that will be driven a lot.

    For those wanting to stay close to the original look a single stage enamel is probably the way to go. Keep in mind that the paint formulas available for re-paint are not the same as what the factory used and that the chemical composition of paint is changing all the time (try to find laquer these days!). That may account for some of the color differences. The best bet is to find a good paint shop or good painter who can match the color based on a sample. A tool bin door, gas door or inspection lid provide a good reference if the paint is still in good shape.
    Kenny P.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TVollnogle View Post
    John,

    I had this discussion about the undercarriage with Carl Beck within the last year when I was getting ready to paint. I'll take the liberty of quoting him since this is just informational:

    What I ended up doing was spraying the entire undercarriage with Zero Rust. I then sprayed it with tintable bedliner material tinted to 920. The color comes out slightly milky looking which I was told it would. It is not a noticeable difference with the wheels on and sitting on the ground.

    Terry
    WOW! Thanks Terry. Exactly the info I needed. As I absolutely hate undercoating I will probably coat with POR-15 then prime and paint a light top coat as Carl describes. I would guess that the POR will take the place of the light undercoating that was in place from the factory.

    I have another question for you. That is a very nice and small rotisserie you have there. Where would a guy find one like that?

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    Registered User JohnnyO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kenz240z View Post
    The decision to use single stage paint vs. basecoat/clearcoat may also depend on how you intend to use your car. Rock chips/dents/dings will be easier to touch up with a single stage paint. So, single stage may be better for a car that will be driven a lot.
    Good point but how many in/out body shops know single stage paint these days. I would imagine that every new vehicle made today is base/clear.

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    John,

    I built the rotisserie. It was more than sufficient for a body of this weight. I even bolted the entire undercarriage on the body before taking it off of the rotisserie a month or so ago. Wheels came from Harbor Freight. I'll attach some pics.

    If you're interested, I can get measurements for you.

    Terry
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    Terry Vollnogle
    Grand Rapids, MI
    '70 240Z #3212

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    Registered User JohnnyO's Avatar
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    Terry,

    I would like measurements. That looks like one of the simplest designs I have seen. It looks like 2 engine stands that have been modified fo hold a Z.

    By the way, I am in awe of your Z. I am hoping to be where you are now by next spring. Started last November.

    John

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    I think that maybe the original colors were affected by the color of the primer. I would use a very light gray or even white for the gold. Even the correct mix would surely be different over medium gray especially in a single stage. jmo
    theramz

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    Theramz, you're right about the primer color affecting the final color. When we did sample boards we used the same primer. I'll have to check with my painter, but I think it was light gray.

    John, I'll get the dimensions for you. My nephew has the rotisserie down in SC now but I'll either call him or measure it when I'm there in a couple weeks. My car is moving along quickly now. I just took an early out from work so am "retired" and can dedicate more time to it. Just dropped the engine back in yesterday. I started tearing down my car over 4 years ago, but didn't touch it for over 2 years due to work schedule, etc. Just got back on it last November.

    Terry
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    Terry Vollnogle
    Grand Rapids, MI
    '70 240Z #3212

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    I don't think the early paints were as effected by primer. My car is bue and the primer is red oxide. Maybe you could have a white primer tinted to make it really "pop". Your engine bay detail is over he top beautiful!!
    I would also like to have the plans for your rotisserie.
    Tom
    theramz

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    John..

    I am finding the same issues matching my orange Z. The car is at the body shop now. It looks like we may be using the tool lid to match the color--as the exterior is not actually 918.

    The outside of my Z was repainted orange in 1984--and I had always assumed it was a close match to the original color. It wasn't until I removed the quarter windows--and found the original paint beneath them--that I realized that the '84 paint job was quite a bit off!

    What difference does a 2 stage (base/clear) have on the final appearance? Does the clear make the color deeper? Is there more shine? Or is the clear merely a protective coating?
    Last edited by Rich1; 09-17-2009 at 09:07 PM.

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    More shine and depth to base/clear jobs. You can also get a better finish if you lay more coats of clear on then wetsand all orangepeel out. Nothing better than a quality paintjob that has been fully wetsanded and buffed out IMO.

    This thread has made my decision to dimantle my car this winter and build the rotisere. I also plan on doing the bedliner undercoating in the same color.

    I just need to decide whether to stick with the orange or go with my other favorite "cactus green"............
    Last edited by five&dime; 09-18-2009 at 06:23 AM.

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    Matching an original color is next to impossible without an expert eye and a perfect sample. Paint changes hue with age no matter where it is. A 2 stage is the best but your stuck with the end result unless you sand it all off. I was at Hot August Nights and looked at no less than 1000 cars. I saw some very expensive paint jobs with flaws resulting from poor prep work. Paint flaking off in corners etc. You have one shot at it so spend the time on the prep.
    Eastwood has a forum to help with all that stuff. I go to the auotmotive paint store for help and I'm sure your town has one with a guy that knows all about it.
    theramz

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    A quick point about color variations - the lighting will make a difference when comparing colors. Avoid comparing the color chips from the paint supplier's book to your sample while standing inside at the counter under the flourescent lights. For best results, do your color comparisons outside in the sunlight. Take a look at the two photos of my orange '73. The paint almost looks red under the flourescent lights in the garage.

    The primer can affect the color, so it's best to use a light primer with light color paints. Keep in mind that most paint systems allow you to tint the primer with the base color so that fewer color coats will be required for a basecoat/clearcoat paint job. With a bc/cc paint job you only need to spray enough color coat to achieve a uniform appearance. The clear coat seals it, adds depth & shine and provides a durable finish. You could tint the primer if you are using a single stage paint, although you need to apply enough coats to achieve a uniform color and a durable finish. Too thin could cause problems down the road.

    I agree with five&dime, there is nothing better than a bc/cc paint job that has been wet sanded perfectly smooth & buffed to a super high gloss. For those pursing a stock appearance this would be over-restoration on a Z car, considering the cars did not come from the factory with show quality paint.

    I've had no problem getting single stage paint from my local PPG supplier. And I've had very good luck with the PPG Omni value line of paints. The key, as theramz pointed out, is in the prep work. Expensive paint will be wasted on a car that has had poor body work and poor prep work. Don't paint your car black unless it is PERFECTLY straight or every ding, wave and ripple will stand out like a sore thumb. Lighter colors are more forgiving about the imperfections.

    I did my first Z in an orange basecoat/clearcoat, including the engine bay. I'm working on another Z that I plan to use bc/cc on the body exterior and will use a single stage in the same color for wheel wells, door/hatch jams, interior, underside of hood and engine compartment. I've already sprayed the interior and wheel wells. I've got a little body work to do before I can spray the body...
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    Kenny P.

    '73 240Z
    '82 ZX L28
    '82 ZX 5-speed
    Round top SU's
    Tokico HP struts
    Tokico Springs
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    my gallery

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    Quote Originally Posted by TVollnogle View Post
    Theramz, you're right about the primer color affecting the final color. When we did sample boards we used the same primer. I'll have to check with my painter, but I think it was light gray.

    John, I'll get the dimensions for you. My nephew has the rotisserie down in SC now but I'll either call him or measure it when I'm there in a couple weeks.

    Terry
    The primer that I stripped was light grey on top of red oxide. I am going to get a quart of your formula and paint the inside with it. I will start with the floor boards and tranny tunnel. I have some very nice paint examples that were under the vinyl on the strut towers. This paint appears to be the color I am expecting so I hope it hasn't faded or darkened alot.

    The dimensions would be great. Not too big of a rush, I won't be working on the floor pan supports and under carraige for a little while.

    Thanks for the help.

    John

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    Quote Originally Posted by TVollnogle View Post
    John,

    I built the rotisserie. It was more than sufficient for a body of this weight. I even bolted the entire undercarriage on the body before taking it off of the rotisserie a month or so ago. Wheels came from Harbor Freight. I'll attach some pics.

    If you're interested, I can get measurements for you.

    Terry
    That's truly first class, and far exceeds what I'm doing.
    Bryan Pilati
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    IZCC #583; TZCC #16; CZC #110
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    Default Safari Gold - Not the same after 40 years

    Finished a total restoration of my 5/70 build 240Z #3833 last year. The car is Datsun 920 "Safari Gold". After we finished stripping the car and revealed the paint in the previously covered areas, I was somewhat surprised to see that those areas were "brighter" than the exterior. Using the unexposed paint as a sample, we matched it with PPG urethane single stage, applied 5 coats, wet sanded and rubbed (a lot!). I think the results were outstanding (pic attached). I am positive if we had simply ordered the 920 gold without color matching, it would have been a darker tint than it was supposed to be. I also think that the chemistry of modern paint is so much more advanced than it was back in the late 60s/early 70s, that it will hold truer over time.

    And as far as I can tell, 920 Safari Gold was only available on the 240Z from 10/69 mid 1971. It was also available on the 510 in that time frame.

    FWIW
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    The color is beautiful, but seems lighter and less brown than the original Safari Gold. It could be the light but the attached seems to be closer (IMO).
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    http://www.flickr.com/photos/1404980...7600346077563/
    ______________________________________________
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/1404980...7603350695459/

    70, 71, 2 72's, and a 73 240z....
    90 300zx and a 1996 Acura NSX.....but who's counting?

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    Do you know if the guy above did a color match or used a code card from the 70's? The reason I ask is that the color in your picture (post 38) looks similar to the samples I have seen from the PPG cards from the 70's.

    John

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    J.0. ........That car is out of Woodlands Texas....the owner is named Frank....Zedyone originally posted the picture and I liked it so much I saved it. When I asked him what he used he said 920 gold with 3 coats of clear...I just P.M.'d him and asked if he would respond on this forum. Hope he responds so we can get details...his car is certainly close to a perfect match of 920 gold (IMO).
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/1404980...7600346077563/
    ______________________________________________
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/1404980...7603350695459/

    70, 71, 2 72's, and a 73 240z....
    90 300zx and a 1996 Acura NSX.....but who's counting?

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    Another car in gold.....this one is a VZ from Carl's files.
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    http://www.flickr.com/photos/1404980...7600346077563/
    ______________________________________________
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/1404980...7603350695459/

    70, 71, 2 72's, and a 73 240z....
    90 300zx and a 1996 Acura NSX.....but who's counting?

  42. #42
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    More gold.
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    ______________________________________________
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/1404980...7603350695459/

    70, 71, 2 72's, and a 73 240z....
    90 300zx and a 1996 Acura NSX.....but who's counting?

  43. #43
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    Zcar70. My dad and I both love the color of your car. We both agree that shade looks better than the factory color. Do you have the formula???

    It's beautiful!!!

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    Thanks for the compliment. All I can tell you is that we used a paint sample from under the dash and the paint matching computer came up with this. The color seems to "pop" more than the original enamel. I really think that it is due to today's superior paint chemistry. The old paint seemed to darken a bit over time. I didn't notice it much until we stripped the car.

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    OK. I am going to get a sample made and spray it next weekend. I will let you know how it turns out.

    John

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    Default a liitle more Gold

    Evening all ,I have been following this thread for a while and the more pics I see of 920 gold ,the more I like it . My Feb-71 #23215 was gold and thankfully some of it still remains . The light in these shots don't really show as well as they could although you can see what untouched paint looked like in 71 . The exterior of the car has been repainted black but everything else still is there as factory condition . If I ever did a complete teardown like the car from Michigan I would seriously consider the 920 as well .
    And yes for those who might be wondering , that is the original Bridgestone laying there in the tub .
    See ya and always love to see the beautiful work that is being done to these Z's .
    Chris
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    71-z , great for me , awesome for the parts store , hey I'm helping the local economy !

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    Apologies for the delay. Haven't been here for a spell.

    My Z is 920 with a bit of gold metal-flake tossed in to give it a bit more snap in sunlight. The paint brand is PPG, Deltron 2000 line. The now-faded label says "OEM 920 Nissan."

    Hope this helps and is timely to some of you.

    Frank
    First & Third owner of HLS30-00721
    B. 01/70 D. 03/12

    New owner of HLS30-15653
    B. 12/70 D.

    Frank in Houston, Texas

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    Quote Originally Posted by fuzze View Post
    And yes for those who might be wondering , that is the original Bridgestone laying there in the tub .
    See ya and always love to see the beautiful work that is being done to these Z's .
    Chris
    Chris,

    Nice Bridgestone, but I have a general comment about securing the spare tire in the tub.

    Is it just me. It seems that, more often than not, when someone posts a picture of the spare tire, the hold down bracket appears to be installed upside down with the rubber protected edge of the hold down facing upward, instead of down and against the steel wheel for protection.

    Interested in opinions if I have this all wrong.

    Dan

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    Quote Originally Posted by zcar70 View Post
    Finished a total restoration of my 5/70 build 240Z #3833 last year. The car is Datsun 920 "Safari Gold". After we finished stripping the car and revealed the paint in the previously covered areas, I was somewhat surprised to see that those areas were "brighter" than the exterior. Using the unexposed paint as a sample, we matched it with PPG urethane single stage, applied 5 coats, wet sanded and rubbed (a lot!). I think the results were outstanding (pic attached). I am positive if we had simply ordered the 920 gold without color matching, it would have been a darker tint than it was supposed to be. I also think that the chemistry of modern paint is so much more advanced than it was back in the late 60s/early 70s, that it will hold truer over time.

    And as far as I can tell, 920 Safari Gold was only available on the 240Z from 10/69 mid 1971. It was also available on the 510 in that time frame.

    FWIW
    Why is the rear spoiler black?
    Bryan Pilati
    1971 Datsun 240Z (8/71; 920 paint)
    IZCC #583; TZCC #16; CZC #110
    I'm never serious unless I should be.

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    Quote Originally Posted by d240zx2 View Post
    Apologies for the delay. Haven't been here for a spell.

    My Z is 920 with a bit of gold metal-flake tossed in to give it a bit more snap in sunlight. The paint brand is PPG, Deltron 2000 line. The now-faded label says "OEM 920 Nissan."

    Hope this helps and is timely to some of you.

    Frank
    Frank, what kind of metal flake did you add, and how much?
    Bryan Pilati
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    IZCC #583; TZCC #16; CZC #110
    I'm never serious unless I should be.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TVollnogle View Post
    Theramz, you're right about the primer color affecting the final color. When we did sample boards we used the same primer. I'll have to check with my painter, but I think it was light gray.

    John, I'll get the dimensions for you. My nephew has the rotisserie down in SC now but I'll either call him or measure it when I'm there in a couple weeks. My car is moving along quickly now. I just took an early out from work so am "retired" and can dedicate more time to it. Just dropped the engine back in yesterday. I started tearing down my car over 4 years ago, but didn't touch it for over 2 years due to work schedule, etc. Just got back on it last November.

    Terry
    Hey, get that Fram filter off that beautiful engine.
    Bryan Pilati
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    I'm never serious unless I should be.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AZ-240z View Post
    Chris,

    Nice Bridgestone, but I have a general comment about securing the spare tire in the tub.

    Is it just me. It seems that, more often than not, when someone posts a picture of the spare tire, the hold down bracket appears to be installed upside down with the rubber protected edge of the hold down facing upward, instead of down and against the steel wheel for protection.

    Interested in opinions if I have this all wrong.

    Dan
    You've sparked my curiosity now. I am betting the spare tire compartment of my 70Z has never been touched or opened. I'll check it tonite and post pictures.

    Also, just a few quick thoughts on the 920 gold as mine is still the original paint. It looks great in the sunlight and under flourescent lighting, but not so pretty in shade or normal light. In the sunshine or flourescent it is a beautiful shade of orange. In shade or normal lighting it looks almost tan, like an army camouflage tan. Much prefer the sunshine.
    Rich

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    Boy, I was a bit overly optimistic. Looks like Dad was in here way before me.

    I thought the cover looked pretty funny, almost like a smiley face, but not smiling. I think that was on 180 degrees out as there was an arrow on it pointing aft and the flat on the forward end. Fits better with the flat towards the back and I am guessing the arrow should point forward (unless you drive in reverse most of the time).

    I found an old Bridgestone tire in there. Looks like it may be one of the original 175/70/14s as it was a bit worn. I like the made in Japan emblem there. You can see the Hubcap scrapes on the rim and the location of the old tire weights.

    Lots of padding hair in the bottom so I cleaned that out. The paint looks real nice as well. There was a bit of stray glue in the area but no rust. I cleaned up the tire a bit and re-assembled everything. That was fun.

    Anyone know what that black plastic thing is?

    Rich
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    Bad news, Rich. That is not the original tire. The originals on the early cars were Bridgestones, but they were 175SR14, not 175/70-14s. That is a much later size, and the SF-408 model (Super-Filler) confirms that. The early cars came with "Super Speed Radial 20".

    I borrowed these pictures from an earlier thread.



    Arne - Former owner, HLS30-37705, 7/71, 905 Red
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    AAhh, that's right. The 70 series should have clued me in. The glove compartment decal specifies the 175SR14. I'm thinking the 'S' is a 78 series tire.

    I did notice the rim had the black front and the silver back. Now I am wondering which tire on the car has the original spare rim. Then again, I am sure there are much important things to consider.

    Thanks for the input.

    Rich

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    The 'S' is a speed rating, 113 MPH in this case. (The 'H' for the later tires is 130 MPH. The 'R' simply means Radial.) When the aspect ratio (the '70' in 175/70-14) isn't specified, 80% is implied. So a 175SR14 tire is equivalent to a 175/80-14.
    Arne - Former owner, HLS30-37705, 7/71, 905 Red
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    Thanks for the tire education. That is a big help..

    OK..sorry for hi-jacking the thread. Now back to 920 gold......I love my 920 gold.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bpilati View Post
    Why is the rear spoiler black?
    It's black because I liked the way it looked. As you know, the BRE type spoiler was not a Nissan part or option, however many 240Z owners added them. With my color scheme, I liked it in "rally black".

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    Arne, I have a 175R14 made by Toyo.
    Bryan Pilati
    1971 Datsun 240Z (8/71; 920 paint)
    IZCC #583; TZCC #16; CZC #110
    I'm never serious unless I should be.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zcar70 View Post
    It's black because I liked the way it looked. As you know, the BRE type spoiler was not a Nissan part or option, however many 240Z owners added them. With my color scheme, I liked it in "rally black".
    Okay, I'll probably paint the front and rear spoilers.
    Bryan Pilati
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    IZCC #583; TZCC #16; CZC #110
    I'm never serious unless I should be.

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    I've got an original 175SR14 that might have been used once or twice shortly during its life. It is mounted on a rim stamped 11 69.

    Still working on the damn paint. I think I've had 5 samples mixed by my shop and have mixed 4 of my own custom mixes too with the samples I purchased.

    This really sucks.

    John

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    Update: So the drama continued until I said the hell with it and went with PPG Shop Line mixed in the off the shelf 23576 code. I had a sample of this and was spraying it on primed sheet metal. Me, being an inexperienced painter to say the least, had only put 3 - 4 light coats on. I wasn't happy with the color. My paint guy painted my valance corners for me so I could see the color and it looks great!

    I asked him why it came out so much better and he told me it took 10 light coats to get the full color! 10! I had no idea you could even apply that much paint. He said even though my coverage looked even it wasn't deep enough. I guess that's why he makes the big bucks.

    Anyway, it matches very close to the 40 year old samples I peeled from under the rear strut tower vinyl and the parts I have look great in the sunlight as well as the garage.

    He is jamming the body and painting the engine bay now and I will pick it up next week to reassemble the body and install the engine, fuel and brake lines and get some of the smaller under body items back in.

    I should be able to get the car back to him by the end of February for the topcoat.

    the picture is from yesterday.


    John
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  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by zcar70 View Post
    It's black because I liked the way it looked. As you know, the BRE type spoiler was not a Nissan part or option, however many 240Z owners added them. With my color scheme, I liked it in "rally black".
    Hi Guys:
    Just a small correction - although somewhat off Topic - the Rear Spoiler was a Factory option. The BRE Rear Spoiler is just slightly different.. no flat place molded in for the badging, and no reinforcing ribs on the external front side.

    The BRE Spook - for the front is strictly a BRE development/design.

    FWIW,
    Carl B.

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    10 coats? From an HVLP gun??

    The results look great, thats for sure. It just seems like that would be a ton of material thrown down. Did you go with single stage? Did you shoot right over primer, or did you toss up a tinted sealer of some sort?

    Sorry to ask so many questions, but I plan on redoing my 920 car also, and like most 920 people I am really sensitive about making sure the tint comes out correctly. You would think with all of the tech advancements we would be able to match a color.

    I'm still a long way from paint, so I guess I am lucky to be able to learn from other peoples frustrations.

  65. #65
    Her Majesty the 26th 26th-Z's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TVollnogle View Post
    I contacted Pierre at Pierre Z Car and Les Canaday at Classic Datsun since they had been involved in the Z Program cars. They said that they used Dupont paint on the Program cars and both gave me the same formula:
    That's interesting. Both Nissan and PPG say that PPG paints were used in the Vintage Z program. I have no intention of bad-mouthing either of these guys but Les restored no more than two of the Vintage Zs and neither Pierre nor Les painted any of the cars. We are well aware that "originality" was not a primary focus of the re-assembly efforts from either one of them. I am surprised to read the jabber about a color match chip for quality control purposes.

    In a post further down, a reference is made to the dark green color as "908". There is no such color. "Racing Green", or sometimes refered to as "Grand Prix Green" is 907. I'm glad to read that you are all refering to 920 correctly as "Safari Gold". I just read in a magazine "Sahara Gold". Wrong!

    There MikeB, I decided to be a ***** about it! Cheers!
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    Enjoy the Ride
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    Quote Originally Posted by 26th-Z View Post
    That's interesting. Both Nissan and PPG say that PPG paints were used in the Vintage Z program. I have no intention of bad-mouthing either of these guys but Les restored no more than two of the Vintage Zs and neither Pierre nor Les painted any of the cars. We are well aware that "originality" was not a primary focus of the re-assembly efforts from either one of them. I am surprised to read the jabber about a color match chip for quality control purposes.

    For what it is worth, when Pierre did my car, he outsourced the paint work where they also used Dupont 918 Orange. This is, of course, no verification that same was used on the VZ program cars.

    Dan

  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by lbpdz View Post
    10 coats? From an HVLP gun??

    The results look great, thats for sure. It just seems like that would be a ton of material thrown down. Did you go with single stage? Did you shoot right over primer, or did you toss up a tinted sealer of some sort?

    Sorry to ask so many questions, but I plan on redoing my 920 car also, and like most 920 people I am really sensitive about making sure the tint comes out correctly. You would think with all of the tech advancements we would be able to match a color.

    I'm still a long way from paint, so I guess I am lucky to be able to learn from other peoples frustrations.

    I went with the original configuration. Red Oxide epoxy primer over light grey sealer then the top coat. My paint guy had a sample of the original paint which has definately changed in 40 years but it took him 8-10 light coats to get the depth of the color in the original sample.

    You can tell from the thread that people have been trying to match this color and "that's about the closest you can ask for" seems to be the common answer. Like I said, after going with 3 or 4 Prophet gun samples from different areas I decided that the closest match was the PPG ShopLine 23576 in both single stage (wheel wells, under carraige and engine bay) and base/clear for the outer shell and jambs.

    When you get to paint and have questions let me know.

    John

  68. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by 26th-Z View Post
    That's interesting. Both Nissan and PPG say that PPG paints were used in the Vintage Z program.

    I'm glad to read that you are all refering to 920 correctly as "Safari Gold". I just read in a magazine "Sahara Gold". Wrong!

    Thanks for the ad. I guess I am glad I went with PPG, not that I had a choice. All the local supply houses only carry PPG these days and it is getting harder and harder to get paint mailed.

    Yes, Safari Gold is what everyone here is calling it. But for all that might be shopping the PPG paints, the color you get will be called Nissan Gold. This is what comes on the label printed by the supply house when you pick up your paint.

    John

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diseazd View Post
    The color is beautiful, but seems lighter and less brown than the original Safari Gold. It could be the light but the attached seems to be closer (IMO).
    the above car is just a few #'s off from mine. It is here in Houston. It has a metallic finish to it. I have talked with the owner about it. My car was originally purchased in Ill. and driven down here by the owner. I am the second owner and have all the documentation on the car( window sticker, and boxes f extras.). I am about to be in a new house and garage where I will start picking away at getting the car back on the street. I am going back with original paints on the car to keep it O.G. I am #806.

  70. #70
    Supporting Member Diseazd's Avatar
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    Yes I've seen a number of pics of Frank's Texas car.....It's beautful. I asked him to post on this forum re his paint and he did. Zedyone K has more pictures of this awesome car.
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/1404980...7600346077563/
    ______________________________________________
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/1404980...7603350695459/

    70, 71, 2 72's, and a 73 240z....
    90 300zx and a 1996 Acura NSX.....but who's counting?

  71. #71
    Supporting Member Zedyone_kenobi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by texis30O View Post
    the above car is just a few #'s off from mine. It is here in Houston. It has a metallic finish to it. I have talked with the owner about it. My car was originally purchased in Ill. and driven down here by the owner. I am the second owner and have all the documentation on the car( window sticker, and boxes f extras.). I am about to be in a new house and garage where I will start picking away at getting the car back on the street. I am going back with original paints on the car to keep it O.G. I am #806.
    Hey Texi300, welcome to Houston! We started a classic Z get together a few weeks ago in Houston. Had a great turnout...

    Shoot me your email address and I can get you a copy of the member names and numbers of all the classic Z guys in this area. The purpose is to ask others questions, compare notes, check for spare parts, etc.

    Here is a link to the pics Dis referred to..

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/sdamico...7623149004415/
    Last edited by Zedyone_kenobi; 02-12-2010 at 06:16 AM.
    1971 240Z HLS30-38691
    93.9% done and getting better every day
    Now with 100% more DATSUN SPIRIT L28 Power
    1968 Datsun 2000 SRL311-03416

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    I am back from the dead.... Have a few small issues to iron out. Then I am off to the dyno. But enough said here are pics of my 920 car...



  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by TVollnogle View Post
    Theramz, you're right about the primer color affecting the final color. When we did sample boards we used the same primer. I'll have to check with my painter, but I think it was light gray.

    John, I'll get the dimensions for you. My nephew has the rotisserie down in SC now but I'll either call him or measure it when I'm there in a couple weeks. My car is moving along quickly now. I just took an early out from work so am "retired" and can dedicate more time to it. Just dropped the engine back in yesterday. I started tearing down my car over 4 years ago, but didn't touch it for over 2 years due to work schedule, etc. Just got back on it last November.

    Terry
    I'm sorry Terry, but I'm going to have to ask you to remove that Fram oil filter.
    Bryan Pilati
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  74. #74
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    I got a call from the paint shop just now, they got the car painted!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!

    It's been two years.
    Bryan Pilati
    1971 Datsun 240Z (8/71; 920 paint)
    IZCC #583; TZCC #16; CZC #110
    I'm never serious unless I should be.

  75. #75
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    I'll believe it when I see it BP!
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/1404980...7600346077563/
    ______________________________________________
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/1404980...7603350695459/

    70, 71, 2 72's, and a 73 240z....
    90 300zx and a 1996 Acura NSX.....but who's counting?

  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by bpilati View Post
    I got a call from the paint shop just now, they got the car painted!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!

    It's been two years.
    Yeah, your car has been painted...by my wife...Morgan Fairchild. Yeah, that's the ticket. - Tommy Flanagan's Paint Shop.
    73 240Z
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  77. #77
    Jim Arnett jfa.series1's Avatar
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    And I thought it was bad when my car was held prisoner for 9 months!

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    Jim

    Jim Arnett
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