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Thread: Tell me about the Series 1 Bumper "Override" Bar

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    Registered User auzziez's Avatar
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    Default Tell me about the Series 1 Bumper "Override" Bar

    ]I'm interested to find information about the Series 1 Bumper "Override" Bar. To describe it, it is a chromed tube, strategically bent, that connects to the rear bumper of a Series 1 Z. I'd like to know a few things like: 1) Is it factory or dealer option? 2) Which year cars did it come on? 3) Is there such thing as an "override" bar for the front bumper" 4) Like it? or Leave it?

    Does anybody have detailed pics and measurements for fitting an override bar onto a rear bumper. I appreciate any/all help. Thanks!

    The picture shows the override bar on the classic oldschool Z (that's the one in front )

    Tony - Largo, FL
    '71 240z build date 12/70
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    Hi Tony:
    See Page 3 at http://zhome.com/History/72AccBroch.htm

    These were "Factory Authorized Accessories" - meaning that if they were purchased and installed by your Datsun Dealer - they carried the full 12/12,000 Factory warranty.

    They were mostly installed by the Dealers before the 240Z was offered for sale. They were pretty common

    FWIW,
    Carl B.

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    HLS30-97744 + Turbo DArtanean's Avatar
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    I have one ready to throw out in my trash pile....

    Jay
    Last edited by DArtanean; 02-11-2010 at 08:11 PM.
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    Thanks guys. I came across one and am trying to decide if I should put it on, or not. Thoughts?
    Tony - Largo, FL
    '71 240z build date 12/70
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    Quote Originally Posted by auzziez View Post
    ]I'm interested to find information about the Series 1 Bumper "Override" Bar. To describe it, it is a chromed tube, strategically bent, that connects to the rear bumper of a Series 1 Z. I'd like to know a few things like: 1) Is it factory or dealer option? 2) Which year cars did it come on? 3) Is there such thing as an "override" bar for the front bumper" 4) Like it? or Leave it?
    1)Non-factory option
    2)I know they had them for the 260Z and 280Z. 73 was the last year for bumpers listed above
    3)Yes I have 3 of them, they don't wrap around like the rear. They are bolted to the override bumpers
    4)I really like the the rear ones for looks and it would look odd not to have the front one.

    If you want them I'd look at picking up an original their are a lot of them around. You usually can find them being sold with the bumpers so you won't even need to drill. Usually on ebay the bumpers go for almost the same with or with out the override bars, so you could get most your money back in the purchase. besides the rear has a lot of bends in it. It would be a lot of work to replicate. After I find out which one is the early style I could let one of my front ones go. I do not have hardware for the front.

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    240Z Elec. Upgrade guy Zs-ondabrain's Avatar
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    They had no real protection for the Z's so you could call it a Decorative item. No real purpose other than 70's "Bling"

    If you like 'em, instal one. If you don't, don't.
    Pretty cut and dry.

    Dave
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    I've heard them referred to as "towel bars". 'Nuff said...
    Arne - Former owner, HLS30-37705, 7/71, 905 Red
    Car blogs - 240Z - Porsche 911

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    Actually the Front Bar did offer some protection to the point on the nose of the hood. You could feel something hit the bar, and it did let you know that you were about to "ding" the front of the hood if you didn't stop. That point on the front of the hood is an area that is very hard to properly fix once it's dented.

    FWIW,
    Carl B.

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    240Z Elec. Upgrade guy Zs-ondabrain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Beck View Post
    Actually the Front Bar did offer some protection to the point on the nose of the hood. You could feel something hit the bar, and it did let you know that you were about to "ding" the front of the hood if you didn't stop. That point on the front of the hood is an area that is very hard to properly fix once it's dented.

    FWIW,
    Carl B.
    I stand corrected on the front bar. And you're dead on about the "Pre" hitting of something, like my garage door, twice......

    Better the bar than my new hood, again....

    Dave
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    I have a pair new in the box from 1980. I doubt they will ever go on. The 73 front one will be a little different width to mount on the over-riders. Pic is of the different positions of the over-riders of series 1, (black) thin and even with the hood line. The 73's are a little wider and closer in.

    Bonzi Lon
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    Does anyone have the original hardware that I could get a look at? I have the hardware for the rear but not the front.

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    Pesonally, I thought they were butt-ugly. Didn't REALLY offer any additional protection to the car and took away some of the streamline look.

    And I NEVER liked the way the front one attached THROUGH the rubber on the bumperettes!

    AND if you have nice 240 bumpers now, you would be crazy to drill into them!

    My 2 cents.....

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    Mine the holes are already their and in NJ they are not bad to have they provide protection from how people park out hear (they really piss me off I grew up in Colorado and can't see why you need to rub bumpers to park).

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    I have them and recently took them off. I'll probably keep them just in case, but I prefer the cleaner look of just the bumpers. I plan on getting some of those little stainless steel inserts to plug the holes.

    Grass is always greener I guess.

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    Great Feedback. I like the look of the one on the rear, and I have to send the rear bumper out to fix a small dent and new chrome, so I was going to send out the "towel" bar and front bumper at the same time. I don't have holes drilled.

    If anyone is interested in "unloading" a front bar, I will pay for shipping.
    Tony - Largo, FL
    '71 240z build date 12/70
    HLS30-17268
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    Registered User auzziez's Avatar
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    Carl, I've got to imagine that Jim Frederick has a Z or two with the override bars on front or back. do you know if so? If you think so, I can PM him to ask if I can drop by to take some measurements so I can drill before sending the bumpers out for chrome. Tony
    Tony - Largo, FL
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    Quote Originally Posted by tlorber View Post
    I have them and recently took them off. I'll probably keep them just in case, but I prefer the cleaner look of just the bumpers. I plan on getting some of those little stainless steel inserts to plug the holes.

    Grass is always greener I guess.
    Carl, I've got to imagine that Jim Frederick has a Z or two with the override bars on front or back. do you know if so? If you think so, I can PM him to ask if I can drop by to take some measurements so I can drill before sending the bumpers out for chrome. Tony
    Why don't you see if you can trade bumpers one wants with and one without what an idea. That way we are not drilling more bumpers and filling more holes than needed. I have a set on 73 non drilled overriders for the front. the nice thing about the front bumper is the holes are drilled into the rubber just put a non-drilled rubber peices on and they are gone

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ID:	34411[/ATTACH]my front and rear bars.
    ______http://www.cardomain.com/id/nahurry1971____________ 3/73- HLS30-151414

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    i also have a set of undrilled front overriders. the fasteners for my rear bar are the original stainless ones. the rear bar was a pain to install!
    ______http://www.cardomain.com/id/nahurry1971____________ 3/73- HLS30-151414

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    Her Majesty the 26th 26th-Z's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Beck View Post
    Hi Tony:
    See Page 3 at http://zhome.com/History/72AccBroch.htm

    These were "Factory Authorized Accessories" - meaning that if they were purchased and installed by your Datsun Dealer - they carried the full 12/12,000 Factory warranty.

    They were mostly installed by the Dealers before the 240Z was offered for sale. They were pretty common

    FWIW,
    Carl B.
    Only from 1972 on. Prior to 1972 they were AMCO aftermarket accessories.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 26th-Z View Post
    Only from 1972 on. Prior to 1972 they were AMCO aftermarket accessories.
    Chris,
    Not quite sure what you meant, but, when I purchased my 01/71 in March 1971, I had the AMCO front bumper guard installed as a dealer option. It was an AMCO aftermarket option, but was offer and installed by the dealer when the car was new.

    Dan
    Last edited by AZ-240z; 02-12-2010 at 01:45 PM.

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    Her Majesty the 26th 26th-Z's Avatar
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    Yes, that's why part numbers were assigned and the option catalog published that Carl referenced. The "Factory Authorized" is a bit of a misnomer as well. In this case, "factory" means Datsun USA not Nissan Ltd. Nissan had optional equipment for the S30 from day one, but Datsun USA bought the rights to the AMCO line which did include some aftermarket manufactured Nissan Ltd. options.

    I have a set of the towel bars, foot rest, clip-on visor mirror and luggage bar.
    Last edited by 26th-Z; 02-12-2010 at 02:12 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 26th-Z View Post
    Only from 1972 on. Prior to 1972 they were AMCO aftermarket accessories.
    Actually long after 1972 AMCO was selling them though various dealers and distributors.

    FWIW,
    Carl B.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 26th-Z View Post
    ...The "Factory Authorized" is a bit of a misnomer as well. In this case, "factory" means Datsun USA not Nissan Ltd.
    Oh Chris - here you are argueing about the "F" word yet again.

    I wrote "Factory"
    Then you Quoted "Factory" and then wrote "factory"

    I'm not sure which case you are writting about being a misnomer.

    Nonetheless:

    The term "Factory Authorized" in my statement - thus means Nissan Motor Co. Ltd. and if you look at the Owners Manual and Warranty Booklet that accompanied each Datsun 240Z when sold new here in the U.S. - you will see that they are issued by Nissan Motor Co. Ltd. and/or Nissan Motor Company of Tokyo, Japan {see image of back covers below}

    If by "Datsun USA" you are really referring to "Nissan Motor Corp. in U.S.A." it was nothing more than a legal structure offering the full protections of U.S. Corporate Law to Nissan Motor Co. Ltd. and their employees - as they conducted Nissan's business in the US.

    The concept that "Datsun USA" {actually "Nissan Motor Corp. in U.S.A."} was somehow a different company and therefore not included as "the Factory" is muddled thinking at best.

    Nissan Motor Co. Ltd. considers both "Nissan Motor Co. Ltd." and "Nissan Motor Corp In USA" to be interchangeable terms and shortens them to simply "Nissan" in the Warranty Booklet.

    In fact the warranty for accessories was a "Factory Warranty" issued by Nissan Motor Co. Ltd - and "serviced" by their U.S. operations and Authorized Dealers here in the U.S.. If you moved to another Country - the Full Factory Warranty would be honored/serviced by any Nissan Authorized Distributor and/or Dealer.

    Please feel free to read the Nissan New Vehicle Warranty - image copied below.

    FWIW,
    Carl B.
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    Registered User Walter Moore's Avatar
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    As for the reference to the over-rider bars being mostly decorative, the same statement applies to the bumpers. That was true of nearly all cars sold in the U.S. from the mid 1960's until 1974. (When the dreaded 5 MPH bumpers were required by law.)

    I never liked the mandated "bullet proof" bumpers, but at least they cut down or eliminated the costs associated with minor collisions. The early bumpers offered no real protection from anything.
    '71 240Z, Because any fool can drive fast in a straight line.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 26th-Z View Post
    Nissan had optional equipment for the S30 from day one, but Datsun USA bought the rights to the AMCO line which did include some aftermarket manufactured Nissan Ltd. options.
    As I understood it - Nissan signed a non-exclusive OEM supplier agreement with AMCO to supply several of their accessory items that applied to the Nissan/Datsun line of vehicles. Under that agreement AMCO was free to continue to sell their products in the "after-market".

    These AMCO manufactured products, under the OEM agreement were packaged in Nissan/Datsun branded containers by AMCO and delivered to the Nissan National Parts Department. In turn distributed to the Authorized Datsun Dealers. The Dealers then installed them on cars and/or sold them over the Dealership Parts Counters.

    I'd be interested to know what "Nissan Ltd. options" AMCO manufactured {copied?} beside the Passenger Side Foot Rest {passenger side being for the Right side here in the US}. It was somewhat the same, but not identical to product sold in Japan.

    Quote Originally Posted by 26th-Z View Post
    I have a set of the towel bars, foot rest, clip-on visor mirror and luggage bar.
    I have: The Front Guard, Rear Guard Rail, 240Z Shade Kit, 240Z Side Strip Kit {black}, 240Z Floor Mats, Luggage Rack, Parcel Bar, Vinyl Shift Knob, Dual Racing Mirrors, Arm Rest and A/C.{not an AMCO accessory however}.

    I am still missing the Air Foil and the Ski Rack Adapter that fit to the Luggage Rack. I do have a different after-market Ski Rack for the 240Z made by BarreCrafters.

    Not shown the 72 Datsun Accessory Catalog - I also have the Passenger Foot Rest and the Door Panel Scuff Guards. I think the Foot Rest was in a Nissan/Datsun box - - I'll have to dig it out and look. There was also a scuff plate that went on the transmission tunnel next to the accelerator pedal.

    FWIW,
    Carl B.

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    Carl, I may have that Ski Rack Adapter along with the original installation instructions you're missing. I'll see if I can find it in the stash and post some pics when I get some time.
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    Quote Originally Posted by =Enigma= View Post
    Carl, I may have that Ski Rack Adapter along with the original installation instructions you're missing. I'll see if I can find it in the stash and post some pics when I get some time.
    I remember from this thread, it's all about the box it came in.

    http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/s...=amco+ski+rack

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    Hi Ron:
    Yes - New In Box {aka NIB} is the "gold" for Collectors. As AMCO most likely sold a lot more Datsun Accessories over the years, the NIB Datsun Boxs would command higher prices today.

    I've always thought about finding every accessory in the Datsun Accessory Catalog and putting them on my White 72 just for display.

    I had a "Car Top Pop-up Tent" that went on the 240Z as well. Made the mistake of loaning to a friend - and never got it back.... It was pretty neat too..

    FWIW,
    Carl B.

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    Her Majesty the 26th 26th-Z's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Beck View Post
    Oh Chris - here you are argueing about the "F" word yet again.

    The concept that "Datsun USA" {actually "Nissan Motor Corp. in U.S.A."} was somehow a different company and therefore not included as "the Factory" is muddled thinking at best.
    Carl,
    Many, many thanks for your kind remarks. I love you too.

    I understand where you are coming from with the warranty conversation but the relevance to this conversation escapes me. The point I was trying to make was that Nissan Motor Co. Ltd. had optional equipment available in Japan in 1970 that does not coincide with the optional equipment published on your web site - optional equipment from 1972 on. I thought we had been down this road before and, believe me, I'm just as concerned about this muddled thinking as you are! Here is the options page from the 1970 dealer brochure. Considering your remarks about the equality of the two corporate identities, do you not find it strange that what was available in Japan was not published in America? And what was published was sourced from a separate manufacturing group?

    Chris
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    Here is the AMCO foot rest you would have if you bought the Datsun option in America, and a foot rest you would have if you ordered the option in Japan. Which one is "Factory / factory / f-word / F-word"?
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    Last edited by 26th-Z; 02-14-2010 at 12:55 AM.
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    If this original packaging is worth its weight in gold, the first $500 in my paypal account takes the mirror. The perfect Valentines gift for your wife's visor. Shipping included in a waterproof floating box.

    And this particular accessory is unique in that it is "factory" authorized yet there is no mention of Nissan Motor Co. Ltd. anywhere.

    Check your stripe kit, Carl. Does it say "Nissan" anywhere? But, whoa! Option number 8 from the dealer brochure is a stripe kit. Doesn't look like it is going to fit on an HLS30, though. I wonder which one is "factory"?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Beck View Post
    The concept that "Datsun USA" {actually "Nissan Motor Corp. in U.S.A."} was somehow a different company and therefore not included as "the Factory" is muddled thinking at best.

    Nissan Motor Co. Ltd. considers both "Nissan Motor Co. Ltd." and "Nissan Motor Corp In USA" to be interchangeable terms and shortens them to simply "Nissan" in the Warranty Booklet.
    Of course, of course. But notice the references to Nissan Motor Co. Ltd. on the warranty information and the distinct lack of any Nissan reference on the accessory brochure from your web site. Given the understanding that accessories (options) were available from Nissan Motor Co. Ltd., and that they collectively differed from the accessories simply labeled Datsun, wouldn't you think that the "factory" term would be disgarded in favor of a more intellectual discussion of the nuances of our precious import? And given the understanding that the licensing of Amco products was peculiar to the North American market and not the manufacturer of the cars, wouldn't you think the word "factory" warrants an explanation? It's this muddled thinking that had me concerned!
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    Kudos to 26th-Z for fighting the good fight, again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Beck View Post
    Oh Chris - here you are argueing about the "F" word yet again.

    I wrote "Factory"
    Then you Quoted "Factory" and then wrote "factory"

    I'm not sure which case you are writting about being a misnomer.
    Yes, we've been here - or hereabouts - before, haven't we? It seems that the word "Factory" means different things to different people, and may change depending on the situation. But, like most of the other times we've been here, I think it most strongly implies a direct link with the manufacturing plant that the cars came out of, and the company ( in Japan! ) which designed, engineered and commissioned that manufacturing process. I don't think NMC USA is the same thing at all.......

    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Beck
    The concept that "Datsun USA" {actually "Nissan Motor Corp. in U.S.A."} was somehow a different company and therefore not included as "the Factory" is muddled thinking at best.
    Carl, I think you're trying to have your cake, and eat it. Historically, it is clear to see that - in the period we are talking about here especially - NMC USA was indeed one step away from Nissan Motors Ltd. of Japan. To use the term "Factory" in relation to NMC USA or its activities in the USA smacks of the kind of mumbo jumbo that salesmen and (m)ad men are apt to use. And this whole thing is about selling cars and the little nick-nacks that go on them, isn't it? Part of that snake-oil selling is the reassurance that is given to the customer, hence the "Factory Approved" moniker. It's just sales patter, that's all.

    Here in Great Britain, 'Datsun UK' also authorised little nick-nacks and gew-gaws to be sold alongside - or attached to - the cars they sold. It's very hard to think of these as "Factory Approved" items, in any sense of the term. If you saw any of them attached to a car, I think you'd agree.

    Looking at this another way, were any of those "Factory Approved" AMCO accessories sold through the dealers in Japan? I don't think they were....


    Alan T.
    Last edited by HS30-H; 02-14-2010 at 01:59 AM.

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    Here are the installation instructions for the parcel bar, a "factory authorized" accessory that wasn't available in Japan. This particular printing is the rare AMCO version. Prolly not worth as much.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	AMCO_LuggBar_Instr.jpg 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Beck View Post
    Not shown the 72 Datsun Accessory Catalog - I also have the Passenger Foot Rest and the Door Panel Scuff Guards. I think the Foot Rest was in a Nissan/Datsun box - - I'll have to dig it out and look. There was also a scuff plate that went on the transmission tunnel next to the accelerator pedal.

    FWIW,
    Carl B.
    Carl could you post a picture of the transmission tunnel scuff plate I might want to get one with my big feet. I drive in socks to keep rub marks off the the tunnel. I had have 2 sets of the door plates, one in the box with everything, my first Z with the white interior I was so glad to have them I'd find scuffs on the plate whenever someone else road with me never found them on my side though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HS30-H View Post
    It seems that the word "Factory" means different things to different people, and may change depending on the situation. But, like most of the other times we've been here, I think it most strongly implies a direct link with the manufacturing plant that the cars came out of, and the company ( in Japan! ) which designed, engineered and commissioned that manufacturing process. I don't think NMC USA is the same thing at all.......


    Couldn't agree more. If I may, I would like to interject a few thoughts on this topic. Lets view this from the perspective of a corporate structure. It is true that anything done at the factory (which should refer to only a manufacturing facility), is done so by directives from Nissan’s Headquarters. Nothing outside of any manufacturing facility can be “factory approved”. It has been my experience that the decision making process doesn’t flow in that direction.

    The responsibilities/liabilities of anything added, modified or altered on the vehicle after being certified to meet the required safety standards of the export market, in this case the US, were assumed by the NMC in the USA. That is to say, once the dated conformance tag was attached, the factory’s job was done, with no further input.

    I can understand how the NMC in the USA was perceived as an all encompassing entity in itself, but in reality took direction from Japan in regards to all matters. I certainly would think this included what options or accessories would be available from Japan. This proved to be not much, not to say, without good reason. NMC was left to set up their own accessories line as well as a performance parts catalog and authorize dealers to install the parts. Any parts installed by the dealer required a NMC Accessory Installation Report to be filled out in triplicate. I have one of these forms, although for a different model, as well as a copy of a directive from NMC’s Technical Communication Department concerning unauthorized modifications. These documents seem to relegate the responsibility of accessories & modifications squarely on the shoulders of the dealers under the tutelage of the NMC in the USA, not the “factory”.

    I find the parts catalogs interesting. They were works in progress that were never completed. The assignment of Nissan part numbers for parts that essentially double as and started life as aftermarket parts is an interesting subject in itself. The lines of jurisdiction are divided in terms of model and market as well, affecting part number assignment.

    These are great topics to explore and discuss, but not worth arguing about because of a disagreement of terminology.
    Last edited by geezer; 02-14-2010 at 06:17 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HS30-H View Post
    ...I think it most strongly implies a direct link with the manufacturing plant that the cars came out of, and the company ( in Japan! ) which designed, engineered and commissioned that manufacturing process...
    Strongly implies indeed! Let's just look up the word factory in the dictionary. "An establishment for the manufacture or assembly of goods".
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    Quote Originally Posted by 26th-Z View Post
    The "Factory Authorized" is a bit of a misnomer as well. In this case, "factory" means Datsun USA not Nissan Ltd.
    Quote Originally Posted by 26th-Z View Post
    Carl,
    Many, many thanks for your kind remarks. I love you too.

    I understand where you are coming from with the warranty conversation but the relevance to this conversation escapes me.
    Chris: The relevance comes from your earlier statement quoted above. "In this case, "factory" means Datsun not Nissan Ltd."

    The muddled thinking is that somehow Nissan Motor Co. in Japan is a different company than Nissan Motor Co. in USA. That is what seems to have lead you to state that Nissan Motor Co. located in the US - had the ability or authority to offer their own non-factory Datsun "warranties"

    I simply pointed out the fact that Nissan states that "Nissan Motor Co. Ltd / Nissan Motor Co. Japan and Nissan Motor Co. in U.S.A. are interchangeable - ie one and the same - and thus can be shorted to simply "Nissan". It was in fact Nissan that made the point quite clear that the entire Nissan Corporation stood behind the Limited Warranty - not as you stated "Datsun USA"


    Quote Originally Posted by 26th-Z View Post
    The point I was trying to make was that Nissan Motor Co. Ltd. had optional equipment available in Japan in 1970 that does not coincide with the optional equipment published on your web site - optional equipment from 1972 on.
    An interesting point that could easily have been interjected without the incorrect "misnomer" diversion.

    The URL that I listed is clearly marked "Factory Authorized Accessories For The 1972 DATSUN 240-Z" and the subsection is clearly titled "Accessories For The DATSUN 240Z" - both of which were relevant to the original questions Tony ask.

    No attempt was made to make it "coincide" with any other data. It is there simply to share with anyone interested or with anyone that had not see the original brochures from 1972.

    Quote Originally Posted by 26th-Z View Post
    I thought we had been down this road before and, believe me, I'm just as concerned about this muddled thinking as you are! Here is the options page from the 1970 dealer brochure. Considering your remarks about the equality of the two corporate identities, do you not find it strange that what was available in Japan was not published in America? And what was published was sourced from a separate manufacturing group?

    Chris
    No - I don't find it strange at all. In fact it was quite common practice for imported cars in the 60's and 70's.

    The economies of mass production of a specific model were applied commonly to export models in the 60's and 70's being imported into the U.S. Building one model, one way, with a specific set of "standard" equipment yielded the highest production numbers with the lowest unit cost. Common practice by VW in the 50's and 60's - followed by Nissan years later.

    Do you think that Nissan Shatai Koki produced the foot rest, the radio, the fog lights, the side strips, the vinyl roof cover etc etc.? They were all produced by different OEM's supplying Nissan in Japan. No different than an OEM suppler here in the US supplying Nissan.

    As I understood it from and earlier conversation with Kats and others - the accessories not standard on a specific model were installed as customer options - at the Nissan Dealer in Japan.

    In Japan or here in the US - the accessories were supplied by companies outside of Corporate Nissan {known as OEM's}. In Japan and here in the U.S. the accessories were installed by the Nissan/Datsun Dealers. Nothing strange about that - it was just common practice.

    FWIW,
    Carl B.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Beck View Post
    Chris: The relevance comes from your earlier statement quoted above. "In this case, "factory" means Datsun not Nissan Ltd."

    The muddled thinking is that somehow Nissan Motor Co. in Japan is a different company than Nissan Motor Co. in USA. That is what seems to have lead you to state that Nissan Motor Co. located in the US - had the ability or authority to offer their own non-factory Datsun "warranties"

    I made no such statement. Read my posts again. Accessories offered by Nissan Motor Co. Ltd. were not the accessories offered by Nissan Motor Company in the USA. Nor did they interchange. What or how a warranty worked has nothing to do with this conversation. The use of the word "factory" insinuating Nissan Motor Co. Ltd. is simply incorrect.
    I simply pointed out the fact that Nissan states that "Nissan Motor Co. Ltd / Nissan Motor Co. Japan and Nissan Motor Co. in U.S.A. are interchangeable - ie one and the same - and thus can be shorted to simply "Nissan". It was in fact Nissan that made the point quite clear that the entire Nissan Corporation stood behind the Limited Warranty - not as you stated "Datsun USA"

    You are the one talking about warranties and trying to make the disjointed connection. I have no argument with your warranty illustration, but it doesn't have relevance in this regard. What I am simply trying to point out is that there is a peculiar nuance with regard to accessories marketed in North America under the Datsun brand name. That they are not the same as as the accessories published and marketed by Nissan Motor Co. Ltd.

    An interesting point that could easily have been interjected without the incorrect "misnomer" diversion.

    The URL that I listed is clearly marked "Factory Authorized Accessories For The 1972 DATSUN 240-Z" and the subsection is clearly titled "Accessories For The DATSUN 240Z" - both of which were relevant to the original questions Tony ask.

    You could have correctly described the accessories as "Nissan Motor Company in the USA Authorized Accessories". They are clearly not Nissan Motor Co. Ltd. authorized accessories as I have pointed out and referenced. Clearly your "factory" reference to Nissan Motor Co. Ltd. is in error.

    No attempt was made to make it "coincide" with any other data. It is there simply to share with anyone interested or with anyone that had not see the original brochures from 1972.

    Yes, no attempt was made and that seems to be the source of this muddled thinking.

    No - I don't find it strange at all. In fact it was quite common practice for imported cars in the 60's and 70's.

    The economies of mass production of a specific model were applied commonly to export models in the 60's and 70's being imported into the U.S. Building one model, one way, with a specific set of "standard" equipment yielded the highest production numbers with the lowest unit cost. Common practice by VW in the 50's and 60's - followed by Nissan years later.

    Do you think that Nissan Shatai Koki produced the foot rest, the radio, the fog lights, the side strips, the vinyl roof cover etc etc.? They were all produced by different OEM's supplying Nissan in Japan. No different than an OEM suppler here in the US supplying Nissan.

    Many Original Equipment Manufacturers supplied components for the primary construction of the cars. Those items listed and sold by the manufacturer would be considered original equipment. Items manufactured and sold by the manufacturer's distributor would not be considered original equipment. Especially in this case, AMCO was not an original equipment manufacturer. The accessories make no reference to the original manufacturer and they are marketed under a different brand name. Muddled thinking again.

    As I understood it from and earlier conversation with Kats and others - the accessories not standard on a specific model were installed as customer options - at the Nissan Dealer in Japan.

    And the accessories that were standard got on the car how? Is this going to lead us into a conversation about how the cars were actually manufactured at the dealership? You don't know how or where the accessories were installed, Carl.

    In Japan or here in the US - the accessories were supplied by companies outside of Corporate Nissan {known as OEM's}. In Japan and here in the U.S. the accessories were installed by the Nissan/Datsun Dealers. Nothing strange about that - it was just common practice.

    FWIW,
    Carl B.
    So you didn't answer my questions. Of all the Datsun branded accessories you have, do any of them make any reference to Nissan Motor Co. Ltd.? Please post a picture of a Nissan Motor Co. Ltd. identification on an AMCO accessory. Show me that the accessory catalog published on your web site is in fact a Nissan Motor Co. Ltd. document like the warranties you posted.

    Which foot rest is "factory"?
    Last edited by 26th-Z; 02-14-2010 at 01:51 PM.
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    Hi Chris/Alan:
    I understand your perspectives and arguments to support them. I simply disagree. As we have now gotten pretty far afield of the original questions that started this thread - I'll stop now and go watch the Games in Canada...

    FWIW,
    Carl B.

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    Slightly tougher crowd here than you get on the CTZCC forum, eh Carl?

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    Quote Originally Posted by HS30-H View Post
    Slightly tougher crowd here than you get on the CTZCC forum, eh Carl?
    I've been calling my project proses an original restoration with early vintage aftermarket modification, but if I went with their argument I'm original (as long as I don't put the Supersprint exhaust on). In original restoration competition it is not original to have anything that didn't come on the car from the factory (nothing added on after the fact), except with direct documentation that it was sold from the dealer new with these accessories.

    Example, us early Z people may or may not fall under original with a vintage AC system, it depends were it was installed. So let say I bought a Z in 71 without AC and I wanted AC so first thing I did from the dealer is drive next door to the shop and had the AC installed, that would not be original. Now if I bought that car and before we finalized the deal the dealership installed the AC it could even been done at the same shop, now it is original as long as I have the documentation that the dealership installed before the first sale.

    In the by laws of the rules they define factory, factory options, factory aftermarket options, vintage options, and aftermarket or non-period correct. I'm going to keep the definitions simple and short if you want to read what is what get a vintage competition book, I'd recommend for a Corvette (they are the easiest to read).
    Factory is what came on the car from the manufacture's factory that is it.
    Factory options are the options that came on the car from the manufacture's factory not added on afterwords, note some cars you can ad some factory options they are listed out for each car, but depends on how well documented the parts are from the factory to what is allowed. Also with some factory options you need documentation that they came on the car.
    Factory aftermarket options these are options offered by the manufacture for the cars. So how it is determine if the item is a factory aftermarket option is if it is in the manufacture's parts aftermarket catalog or in the factory parts books for that year only. Example the Datsun version side-stripes is, and not Shelby's version like most people seem to have. For them to be considered original to the car they must have documentation prior of sale.
    Then their are vintage options like what came from AMCO, they can be factory endorsed options, but they are not factory under definition. This does not mean that they didn't make the options for the manufacture.

    Sorry for not going into more detailed definitions but these sections on this argument in the rules covers abut 40-50 pages.

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    AJ,
    The Z community already has rules and the rules have been in place for a very long time. http://www.zcca.org/downloads/ZCCA_J...anual_2009.pdf
    No need for discussion. Show up in the stock class with air conditioning on your '71 HLS30 and you will get dinked 5 points right off the top. No documentation required. It didn't come from the factory that way. If you would like to go back to my earlier post #30, you will see exactly what options came from the manufacturer.

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    Last edited by 26th-Z; 02-15-2010 at 07:17 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by HS30-H View Post
    Slightly tougher crowd here than you get on the CTZCC forum, eh Carl?
    Now Alan, it isn't polite to gloat.
    (At least not publicly...)

    Yet another lovely flame war started by someone dropping the F-bomb. I guess if it didn't come from Zama it isn't safe to use the word Factory, is that the point?

    By the way, now that Zama is just a museum, where do they build the 370Z? I know at one time Nissan had plants in Kyushu and Tochigi, does it come from one of them, or somewhere else?

    (I know it isn't made in Smyrna Tennessee.)
    '71 240Z, Because any fool can drive fast in a straight line.

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    Nissan manufactures the 370Z in Tochigi.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walter Moore View Post
    Now Alan, it isn't polite to gloat.
    (At least not publicly...)
    Walter,
    I have nothing to gloat about. It's good that we can have a fair and frank exchange of views and opinions on this forum without fear of being edited, subbed or even deleted altogether ( unlike some other forums.... ) and I believe the bottom line is that we all respect eachother. We don't always have to agree. Some of these topics are subjective, and opinions can differ.

    Quote Originally Posted by Walter Moore
    Yet another lovely flame war started by someone dropping the F-bomb. I guess if it didn't come from Zama it isn't safe to use the word Factory, is that the point?

    By the way, now that Zama is just a museum, where do they build the 370Z? I know at one time Nissan had plants in Kyushu and Tochigi, does it come from one of them, or somewhere else?
    'Our' cars ( the S30-series Z car family ) were made in Nissan Shatai's plant at Hiratsuka. They were never made at Zama. Nissan simply houses their 'Heritage Collection' at the old Zama truck plant, although they are currently working on a proper interactive museum to house it in the Yokohama area.

    As Chris points out, the Z34 is made at Nissan's Tochigi plant.

    Cheers,
    Alan T.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HS30-H View Post
    Walter,

    'Our' cars ( the S30-series Z car family ) were made in Nissan Shatai's plant at Hiratsuka. They were never made at Zama. Nissan simply houses their 'Heritage Collection' at the old Zama truck plant...

    Cheers,
    Alan T.
    Oh, somehow I mixed that up. In retrospect I should have known better. A company that I worked for back in the 1980's made some equipment for Zama, and it was a truck line at that time. I had never heard of Shantal or Hiratsuka before. I am glad I asked the question.

    Thanks,
    '71 240Z, Because any fool can drive fast in a straight line.

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