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Thread: I'm losing my mind over this...

  1. #1
    Still Z 1
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    Default I'm losing my mind over this...

    Hey Guys... First the specifics; "73 with flattops, known good mechanical fuel pump, new fuel filter, 3 and a half gallons of fresh gas with a can of B-12 Chemtool added to the tank... I'm not getting fuel to the filter or the float bowls. When I turn the key I hear an electric fuel pump in the right rear of the car... I see in the Black Dragon catalog that they offer a fuel pump filter for the '73/'74... Did my '73 come stock with an electric and a mechanical fuel pumps??? The old girl will start and run for a few seconds on starting fluid, but it's not drawing any fuel up to the top... HELP!!! Please somebody help me figure this mess out... Cheers, Scott

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    No more body roll! SteveJ's Avatar
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    There are a lot of information gaps in here. First, though, to answer your question, it is likely the electric fuel pump was added to alleviate vapor lock problems that many reported in that era.

    So, fill us in here.
    1. What is the history on this car to your knowledge? Has it been sitting? Are you working on a recent problem?
    2. Is fuel getting to the fuel filter?
    3. What is the condition of the gas tank? Have you inspected it for rust?
    4. Are the hard and soft lines in the fuel system in good condition? How old are they?

    My first swag is junk in the tank or the fuel line clogging things up.
    73 240Z
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    Hey Steve... Yup, she sat for 3-4 years before I got her...Just got off the phone with Mr. D. Honeycutt and he advises that I drain the tank and start from there. I can't wait to see what kinda crud comes outta that fuel tank... Looks like I'll be sending my roundtops to Z Therapy for the complete treatment... Nothing that money won't fix... Cheers, Scott

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    ZCCIV Webmaster motorman7's Avatar
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    I have a '73 with flat tops and yes mine came stock with both electrical and mechanical pumps. When I first purchased the car niether fuel pump worked, but the electrical did make noise. It also sat for 3-4 years. I tried running just the electrical, because it was making noise, but found that it was not pumping at all...just making noise. I went out and bought a new mechanical pump and by-passed the electrical pump and the car started right up. The car runs great without the electrical pump. I have been operating that way for several months now. I do have plans to install the electrical eventually but right now am running fine without it. I also blew out the lines with compressed air during the whole pump replacement process to make sure all the lines were clear.

    Hope that helps.

    Rich
    Last edited by motorman7; 05-15-2011 at 06:22 PM.

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    Registered User d240zx2's Avatar
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    You've got either plugged fuel lines/filters or a bad set of pumps. Probably both. Tank contamination is also quite likely. Drop the tank, inspect and clean. Blow the lines w/compressed air. Replace the electric pump. If that doesn't work, punt.
    First & Third owner of HLS30-00721
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    Frank in Houston, Texas

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    Still Z 1
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    Hey Guys... Thank you, thank you, thank you... Punting may be an option, but I think I'll drain the tank first and filter the contents. Next I'll replace the filter in the electric pump, curse the flattops, just because they're flattops, and give it another try... I may be back here, cursing like mad, at some point in the near future. But at least I've got a starting point... Cheers, Scott

  7. #7
    Registered User Bonzi Lon's Avatar
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    I suggest putting carb cleaner or other solvent in the fuel lines in front, then blow them out. It will make a smelly mess if you don't catch it. A new and a spare fuel filter should be purchased.

    Bonzi Lon
    1973 HLS30-168500
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    Registered User 240ZX's Avatar
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    When refurbishing my 1970 I discovered that the fuel tank pick-up line has no screen or filter as it leaves the tank. I had a similar problem, like what you've described, and the cause of my fueling problem was a small bit of debris that would find its way to the pick-up line entrance and block it off. I actually used a fiberoptic scope, placed it in the fuel tank and watched this little piece of debris swirl around and plug the pick-up line! Anyway, this is what caused my fuel pick-up problem.

    Tom

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    Registered User 240ZGL's Avatar
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    I just did the whole fuel system on my 73, front to back. The tank needed a boil out, no rear pump, bad front pump, clogged lines. I'm running a Facet rear pump 3-4 lb pressure gold 60 series with a filter before the pump, new 5/16 fuel lines in the rear. At the front a new filter to a new mech pump and new 7mm fuel lines. Mine you I have a triple set up but this works fine. I'm not sure what the psi is on the stock pump, but the factory on is a copy of the old Bendix pump which are now Facet/Purolator. I don't think the stock electric pump did more that 4 psi since it was feeding the mech pump.
    HLS30-143697 1973 110 ORANGE
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    Mallory DP ignition W/ Pertronix kit. Koni struts, Koni RallySport springs. Euro rear sway bar
    Who said they don't build em like they use to.


  10. #10
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    Thanks Guys... I've got the same problem that Rich had. Electric pump makes noise, but she no pump... I've drained the tank and blown out the line, so I think I'm gonna bypass the electric pump and try just running the manual one for awhile... I'll let you know if that helps. Thanks again... Cheers, Scott

  11. #11
    Formerly known as Koalia Reverend's Avatar
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    I remember someone had problem with his 73 flattop-Z in zcar.com and he was adviced to use those flattops as a boat anchor.. :P
    -72 240Z "Goldie"

  12. #12
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    Update: I bypassed the electric pump, drained the tank and blew out all the fuel lines. I have good flow/pressure all the way to the float bowl inlets. She still won't start. I know that the flattops are garbage, but I'm stuck with them for the time being. Are there little screen filters between the fuel inlets and the float bowls on these boat anchors??? Keep the good advice coming, Guys. Thanks in advance... Cheers, Scott

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    Probably not the best thing to do, but I did send a short blast of air into my flat tops where the fuel line goes in after it sat for 3 years. It will spray gas out the intake end of the carb. Didn't seem to cause any damage.

    Make sure your choke cable is set right. Loosen the two screws that secure the choke cable at the carbs. Move the choke lever all the way forward. check that cables aren't bent or kinked and then re-tighten. This way the front and rear carbs pull evenly.

    Turn that big screw on the forward carb all the way closed then back it off half of a turn.

    This next item is critical! Make sure that the rubber tube that is just below the big forward carb screw and routes underneath to the rear carb is in very good condition. That means no leaks and no kinks. It is a balance tube and is very critical to smooth operation.

    Might want to check your float level thru the sight glass if you have a small mirror, although it is often hard to see.

    Make sure the carb needles inside your tuna cans are installed with the shoulder flush with the large piston.

    You may also want to open up the idle adjust screw a couple turns just for starting and re-adjust once you are warm. That should cover most of it.

    Also, I had a set of SM needles laying around so put those in my flat tops. Got those from Ztherapy for $30. They run very nicely.

    Rich
    Last edited by motorman7; 05-23-2011 at 09:25 PM.

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    Good Evening Rich, it's Anthony, we met last Monday morning where we work at. I just became a member of classic Z and was going thru the emergency post and was about to write then I came across one of your replies. I figure its probley easier just send you a message so i dont catch you at the wrong time or anything. I am trying to put a game plan together on what is ganna happen here. This weekend is probley a bad time because of Memorial day, however I will call you tomorrow and explain what my first step is going to be.
    Last edited by aj92033; 05-27-2011 at 10:08 PM.

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    Anthony, should be here most of weekend. Feel free to give me a call.
    Rich

    HLS30-02614 in the Cocoon
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    Hey Scott, I have a late 74 260Z that is having the exact same problem yours is, man its driving me up the wall. It started a few weeks ago when I came out to start my car up. It fired up and ran, then Iwent back in to clock out for the day, then no more than 5 minutes later I came back out and my car had stalled out, I spent that weekend disconnecting the fuel lines and electric fuel pump I had and testing it all. I had just put a new electric fuel pump on 2 weeks prior to this issue, I took it back to the parts store and warranty swapped it, also put another fuel filter on as well. Anyhow then i spoke to guy next door that works in this custom hot rod shop, he told me to use starting fluid. Just like what you have been doing. After spraying into the carbs X amount of times it finally fired up, but idled really rough and drove with no power. I had to drive it home about 8 miles or so. When I drove it, it felt like it had barely an throttle response. I myself hd gone through everything, I drained the tank through te bottom plug, again disconnected the fule pump and filter, disconnected the fuel lines in the engine bay that led to the fuel rail, and the lines that led to the carbs. l let the system dry out for a few days, reconnected the lines, then added a fresh 5 gallons along with the Berryman B12 chemtool, started it back up, (it still ran like crap by the way) had to keep my foot on the gas pedal to keep it running. I let it run for a half hour or so but it didnt seem to do anything. Now when I spray startingfluid into the carbs and start the car. It just burns up the fluid then dies real quick. I am right here with you in this mess buddy. And am more than willing to share any conclusions I may come to. Good Luck to us both... cheers, Anthony

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    No more body roll! SteveJ's Avatar
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    aj,
    Did you look at your plugs? What did they look like?
    73 240Z
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    well I will tell you that I had just replaced them before I had this issue, then after having the issue I fouled them due to excessive starts, so i replaced them again, and now they have fouled again, I cleaned them as best as i could but still no start. Im probley ganna pick up some non-foulers and go from there. Rich is ganna cruz by a little later and help me too possibly diagnose this issue.

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    You should check the little filter screens for any gunk or garbage I believe they are located in the top plug on each of your carbs.

  20. #20
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    Hey Anthony... Thanks for the input and welcome aboard. Let me stir the pot here. One pair of my roundtops appears to be servicable... How much different are the flattop's manifold and linkage than the ones for the SUs??? Can I bolt 'em on and make 'em work? Anybody done this before? Share your knowledge please, Guys... Cheers, Scott

  21. #21
    240 Z Owner/Nut Case dhoneycutt's Avatar
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    AFAIK the bolt pattern is the same (carb to manifold). it should just bolt Up.
    David A. Honeycutt
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    Hey Dave... Thanks for your continued support, ... I might make a run at swapping them out Sunday after work. I would have thought that someone would have tried/done this before... Maybe they just haven't happened upon my desperate plea yet... Anyhoo, say hey to the family and I'll give ya a shout soon... Cheers, Scott

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    You will also have to cap the extra waterline that runs through the flat tops. Caps at forward and aft part of motor.

    HLS30-02614 in the Cocoon
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  24. #24
    240 Z Owner/Nut Case dhoneycutt's Avatar
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    I think the linkage will work too but...and I do mean BUT I'm only guessing on that one
    David A. Honeycutt
    United States Air Force, Retired


    1972 Datsun 240Z HLS3079961
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    2004 Mazda 6s
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    The Only Difference Between Men & Boys... Is The Price Of Their Toys!

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    hey guys... chalk one more of us up to this bitter hatred of all things gone wrong!Ditto to everything!... I'm thinking my tank is letting loose debris and clogging the pick-up... She quit just 5 miles from the Canby fairgrounds... guess I will see y'all next year!
    I dunno how fast I was going.... the speedo quit at 160.
    I knew it was out of oil.... it quit smoking

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