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Thread: Help needed ASAP

  1. #101
    Registered User madkaw's Avatar
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    Google DIY tune for your wideband. I think you need to concentrate on tune before assuming something else is wrong. Ask me how I know this I dynoed my Z at Zcon and it showed rich and a power drop at 5300, but for the most part my plugs looked good-I didn't have a wideband at that time so I was left guessing. It turned out that I didn't have my carbs synced properly at 3000rpm and I was pulling off of mostly one carb-great for MPG-lousy for power. My floats were set up to stock specs, but i had to tweak them beyond that point for best AFR and power. I'm not sure i buy into the spill-over theroy. Any fuel in the filter? You said it ran worse when the fuel tank was low-did this tie into when it bogged on right handers? If your fuel rail is set-up in the stock position, I'm not sure I buy into vapor lock either. Pulling the chokes to enrichen fuel that might not be there(floats) will only help diagnose one aspect of a fuel problem.

    I know you have looked at the tank, but look again, especially your sending unit return line. I had what looked like a brand new unit and it had a bug or something in it that partially blocked the return line and played havoc with me. It happened intermittmently to make it harder to diagnose.
    The 150$ or so spent on the wideband will be well worth the investment.
    Steve
    71 240z,bw-5sp 2.4-40 over,balanced,e-88,big valves,ported&polished, stage2,header, triple Mikuni's 40's
    3.90 Subaru STI LSD

  2. #102
    Registered User Bonzi Lon's Avatar
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    As a teenager I used to pit crew for a drag racer. One of the tricks was a box around the fuel pump, filled with ice right before the race. Later outlawed.

    The original silver wrap got me to thinking about a newer type of material, like No-Mex (sp), that is used in fire suits. And a heat resistant gel used in the movies.

    Watching "Modern Marvels, Spirits", it said 'alcohol vaporizes at about 170 degrees F'. Is there any alcohol used in your fuel?

    An inexpensive hand held laser thermometer might be a useful 'cool tool'.

    Bonzi Lon
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  3. #103
    Registered User Jeff G 78's Avatar
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    Bonzi Lon, all gas in this region has 10% ethanol, so yes, it will vaporize at a lower temp than pure gasoline. I do have a no-touch pyrometer, but we never checked to see just how hot the rail was getting. The tools were at the other end of the paddock and I forgot I had even brought it to the race. I think that with the right testing and countermeasures, I can eliminate all of the fuel heat issues. At that point, we can concentrate on the actual tuning.
    Jeff
    Northville, Michigan
    IZCC #1285
    '78 280 10:1 CR, Arizona Z Car header, urethane bushings, Tokico springs, Illumina struts, Panasports w/Hankook R-S2 225/50R16 tires, Maxima 105 amp alternator
    http://www.classiczcars.com/photopos...00&ppuser=7975
    '74 260Z BRE look-alike crap can for Optima Batteries ChumpCar World Series Racing racing
    https://www.facebook.com/Jeff.Grauer

  4. #104
    Boat Anchor Repairman Captain Obvious's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff G 78 View Post
    The plan is to remove the steel pads from the front rail mounts and replace them with some sort of insulators like the carb/fuel pump spacers.
    I'm not a thermo expert but I'm skeptical about the amount of heat that is conducted up through those mounts. I guess any little bit helps though, right? In any event, After you drill the mount hole larger, I'd be happy to make some plastic insulating inserts for you once you get to that point.

    Now that you aren't using the mechanical fuel pump at all, how about completely re-routing the fuel lines across the firewall and onto the driver's side fender instead. Don't ever mount it to the block at all. I'm sure I've seen pics here on the forum somewhere of that mod.

  5. #105
    Registered User Jeff G 78's Avatar
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    The ONLY reason to keep the OE rail is because of the return system. The rail has a nice loop that would have to be replicated. We have run it both with and without the return and so far, it doesn't seem to really care one way or the other. I agree that with no return, we could reroute the supply hose and keep it completely away from the engine.

    As for the heat transfer through the mounts, I wouldn't have thought so either until I saw the exhaust manifold glowing red. That means the head is pretty damn hot as well so some of that heat will certainly transfer to the rail. Every little bit contributes.

    I will go through the McMaster Carr catalog and see what kind of insulators I can find. I'm thinking ceramic or fiber-plastic like the mechanical fuel pump uses.
    Jeff
    Northville, Michigan
    IZCC #1285
    '78 280 10:1 CR, Arizona Z Car header, urethane bushings, Tokico springs, Illumina struts, Panasports w/Hankook R-S2 225/50R16 tires, Maxima 105 amp alternator
    http://www.classiczcars.com/photopos...00&ppuser=7975
    '74 260Z BRE look-alike crap can for Optima Batteries ChumpCar World Series Racing racing
    https://www.facebook.com/Jeff.Grauer

  6. #106
    Boat Anchor Repairman Captain Obvious's Avatar
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    Yeah, that's a good point about the exhaust manifold. It's hot.

    As for what to make the insulators out of... I was thinking Delrin (acetal) because it machines like a dream. Well, that and I have it on hand. Haven't checked the thermal conductivity and it's probably not as good as ceramic, but it's gotta be a whole lot better than steel!

  7. #107
    Registered User Jeff G 78's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Obvious View Post
    Yeah, that's a good point about the exhaust manifold. It's hot.

    As for what to make the insulators out of... I was thinking Delrin (acetal) because it machines like a dream. Well, that and I have it on hand. Haven't checked the thermal conductivity and it's probably not as good as ceramic, but it's gotta be a whole lot better than steel!
    http://plastics.dupont.com/plastics/...in/230323c.pdf I'm no materials expert, but it looks like it might work. The only obstacle might be the melting point of Delrin.
    Jeff
    Northville, Michigan
    IZCC #1285
    '78 280 10:1 CR, Arizona Z Car header, urethane bushings, Tokico springs, Illumina struts, Panasports w/Hankook R-S2 225/50R16 tires, Maxima 105 amp alternator
    http://www.classiczcars.com/photopos...00&ppuser=7975
    '74 260Z BRE look-alike crap can for Optima Batteries ChumpCar World Series Racing racing
    https://www.facebook.com/Jeff.Grauer

  8. #108
    Registered User black gold man's Avatar
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    You can see the car here.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQg71OIyfNo

    50 sec in z being passed and passed again at 6 .15 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOxwZQXttS0
    Fiero Crash
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUNKH...eature=related
    Looks like fun
    Last edited by black gold man; 10-14-2011 at 07:56 PM.

  9. #109
    Registered User beermanpete's Avatar
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    I think the Garolite G-11 or G-7 would handle the heat better.

    http://www.mcmaster.com/#garolite/=ehxk7v

    http://www.mcmaster.com/#garolite/=ehxlnr

  10. #110
    Registered User Jeff G 78's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by black gold man View Post
    You can see the car here.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQg71OIyfNo

    50 sec in z being passed and passed again at 6 .15 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOxwZQXttS0
    Fiero Crash
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUNKH...eature=related
    Looks like fun
    With our Friday issues, we never mounted the video camera in the car, but one of the other racers says that he will soon be posting a montage of night racing clips with our car. To get a feel for what CCWS is all about, check out this video of a Ford LTD 5.0L and a Dodge Neon. They had a great battle. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EyKyoZT31RY
    Jeff
    Northville, Michigan
    IZCC #1285
    '78 280 10:1 CR, Arizona Z Car header, urethane bushings, Tokico springs, Illumina struts, Panasports w/Hankook R-S2 225/50R16 tires, Maxima 105 amp alternator
    http://www.classiczcars.com/photopos...00&ppuser=7975
    '74 260Z BRE look-alike crap can for Optima Batteries ChumpCar World Series Racing racing
    https://www.facebook.com/Jeff.Grauer

  11. #111
    Boat Anchor Repairman Captain Obvious's Avatar
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    Don't get me wrong... I'm not questioning the belief that there are materials better suited to this application than Delrin. I'm sure there are LOTS of better choices. I just happen to already have Delrin in stock and it's very easy to work with, that's all. I picked that one for all the wrong reasons. Kinda like looking for your car keys where the light is good.

    And again, I'm not pushing for Delrin or anything, but if I'm reading the datasheet correctly, they list the melting point at 175C. That ought to be enough, right?

    Quote Originally Posted by black gold man View Post
    You can see the car here. Looks like fun
    Does look like fun.

    I drove a Fiero for years and years and I feel for that guy. I think I've talked with him in the past.

  12. #112
    Registered User madkaw's Avatar
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    I just spent time on the Chump Car series forum and I freakin love it. What a great series and and a great idea. I have been cracking up reading the rules. I think the Z makes a great canidate for this race scenerio. I just told my wife that I have found a race venue that I can compete in-she's thrilled
    Steve
    71 240z,bw-5sp 2.4-40 over,balanced,e-88,big valves,ported&polished, stage2,header, triple Mikuni's 40's
    3.90 Subaru STI LSD

  13. #113
    Registered User beermanpete's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Obvious View Post
    Don't get me wrong... I'm not questioning the belief that there are materials better suited to this application than Delrin. I'm sure there are LOTS of better choices. I just happen to already have Delrin in stock and it's very easy to work with, that's all. I picked that one for all the wrong reasons. Kinda like looking for your car keys where the light is good.

    And again, I'm not pushing for Delrin or anything, but if I'm reading the datasheet correctly, they list the melting point at 175C. That ought to be enough, right?



    Does look like fun.

    I drove a Fiero for years and years and I feel for that guy. I think I've talked with him in the past.
    Delrin is a thermoplastic and will soften and melt. As it softens the mechanical strength reduces. This could allow the fuel rail to move, the plastic could run out, etc. Garolite is a thermoset plastic and does not melt. It could fail due to heat in other ways but won't melt. The G-7 and G-11 types are rated for much higher heat than Delrin, Nylon, and other common plastics. Since cost is an issue maybe a handle from an old pot or other cookware could be donated to the cause. A lot of these are made from Bakalite and similar materials.

  14. #114
    Registered User Jeff G 78's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by madkaw View Post
    I just spent time on the Chump Car series forum and I freakin love it. What a great series and and a great idea. I have been cracking up reading the rules. I think the Z makes a great canidate for this race scenerio. I just told my wife that I have found a race venue that I can compete in-she's thrilled
    Steve,

    The racing season is over for 2011, but the 2012 schedule should be out within a week or two. I'll send you the link when it comes out. If you are serious about getting into CCWS, I strongly suggest taking it slow and either joining an established team as either a crew member or rental driver for your first race or two. There are lots of established teams in Indiana, Ohio, Illinois, and Michigan. You are more than welcome to crew with us to get a taste of CCWS racing. As of right now, I don't think we need any drivers, but that can always change.

    CCWS IS great racing! The series (as well as LeMons) is growing very rapidly since many people are tired of SCCA and how serious everybody takes it. CCWS is a blast and it's FUN! They go to some of the best tracks in the country (as well as Mexico). This year, they were at VIR, Infineon, Sebring, Road America, Laguna Seca, Charlotte, Iowa, Texas World Speedway and other great tracks. They ran around 40 races in 2011.

    Now the bad news... Even cheap racing isn't cheap, but it's a heck of a lot of fun and cheaper than most other forms of racing. I run a 5 driver team and we each spend about $800 - $1000 per race. If we weren't chasing issues and spending lots of money last-minute, that cost would drop slightly. Entry fees, tires, brakes, racecar fuel and tow rig fuel will set you back about $600 per race and the car will cost about $3000 to $5000 to buy and build including the cage, race seat, a HANS device and other safety equipment. Finally, each driver will need personal safety gear which can be had for as low as $350 and go way up from there.

    This is why it's a great idea to rent a seat the first time out. For about $600 you can usually find a seat and all you need is your personal safety gear.

    If you (or any other Classic Z Car Club members) want more info, feel free to contact me.

    BTW, my wife comes to my races and LOVES it. She has been BEGGING me to let her race with us. So far, I have kept her out of the car just because I can barely afford one share, let alone two shares. I'll get her in the car at a track day next year and we'll go from there.
    Last edited by Jeff G 78; 10-15-2011 at 10:38 AM.
    Jeff
    Northville, Michigan
    IZCC #1285
    '78 280 10:1 CR, Arizona Z Car header, urethane bushings, Tokico springs, Illumina struts, Panasports w/Hankook R-S2 225/50R16 tires, Maxima 105 amp alternator
    http://www.classiczcars.com/photopos...00&ppuser=7975
    '74 260Z BRE look-alike crap can for Optima Batteries ChumpCar World Series Racing racing
    https://www.facebook.com/Jeff.Grauer

  15. #115
    Registered User Jeff G 78's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by beermanpete View Post
    Delrin is a thermoplastic and will soften and melt. As it softens the mechanical strength reduces. This could allow the fuel rail to move, the plastic could run out, etc. Garolite is a thermoset plastic and does not melt. It could fail due to heat in other ways but won't melt. The G-7 and G-11 types are rated for much higher heat than Delrin, Nylon, and other common plastics. Since cost is an issue maybe a handle from an old pot or other cookware could be donated to the cause. A lot of these are made from Bakalite and similar materials.
    I will look into the Garolite Pete. It looks like the right stuff.

    Today, I washed the race grime off the Z, filled the tank with gas and Sta-Bil, and swapped the water for coolant in the radiator. I didn't diagnose the problem, but it sounds like I blew the manifold-to-downpipe gasket out. There is a new exhaust leak under the hood. Hopefully it's just a gasket and not a cracked manifold. I also checked the engine oil and it is not only still at the full mark, but it's barely dirty. Not bad for 1450 miles at WOT! I use nothing but Valvoline VR-1 40wt.

    As I ran the car to circulate the Sta-Bil and coolant, I realized that the car never warmed up. I have a feeling that the fail-safe thermostat might have failed. After 20 minutes in the driveway, the gauge barely made it to 120F. During the race, it was running around 130F according to the gauge.
    Jeff
    Northville, Michigan
    IZCC #1285
    '78 280 10:1 CR, Arizona Z Car header, urethane bushings, Tokico springs, Illumina struts, Panasports w/Hankook R-S2 225/50R16 tires, Maxima 105 amp alternator
    http://www.classiczcars.com/photopos...00&ppuser=7975
    '74 260Z BRE look-alike crap can for Optima Batteries ChumpCar World Series Racing racing
    https://www.facebook.com/Jeff.Grauer

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