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Thread: still no charge from alt.

  1. #1
    '73 HLS30-154951 Quinn'Z's Avatar
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    Default still no charge from alt.

    ok, so, am i supposed to have a charge light somewhere? I've got another alternator on now and now i am not getting power at all ever to the BW or the WB wires, and I have full time power at the White wire, key on, key off, full time 12 volts. any ideas to what is going on now?

  2. #2
    Formerly known as Koalia Reverend's Avatar
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    External or internal voltage regulator?
    -72 240Z "Goldie"

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    This is a new thread from your other thread? The 79 internally regulated alternator to replace the bad one from Autozone?

    http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/s...eed-reg-jumper

    You still haven't described which procedure that you used. Did you try the one at zhome from Post #3 in the other thread? (I glanced at the zhome article and it looks like that's the one you're using).

    1973 should have an Ammeter and apparently they don't have Charge lights. The Ammeter tells you if it's charging. + = charge, - = discharge. What does the Ammeter needle do?

    Battery power at the white wire is good. It's supposed to be connected to the battery. The wire that goes to the cross bar on the T plug should always show battery power also. It's the Sense wire (S at zhome) and senses whether or not the alternator should be charging. The other part of the T, the bottom, should have switched 12 volts, but probably needs a diode. If you put the diode in backwards, the alternator windings won't energize and you won't get any charging. Did you install a diode?

    Everything above can be checked with a voltmeter before you start the engine. If you're not getting switched power at BW, you might have a blown fusible link or fuse. I'm not sure where that wire comes from but a wiring diagram will probably show you where to look for a fuse or fusible link. Check http://www.xenons30.com/reference.html in the Body Electrical section (I just looked and it looks like BW runs through the fuse box). No power at BW means no energized windings, no magnet, no charge. You mgiht have a bad fuse. Good luck.

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    '73 HLS30-154951 Quinn'Z's Avatar
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    Thank you so much. Gonna go and try it out. Getting internet Friday so my responses shouldn't be so spread out. Just started my new job too and life us a little tough, can't tell you how much I appreciate your help.

  5. #5
    '73 HLS30-154951 Quinn'Z's Avatar
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    No Autozone for 3000 miles.

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    '73 HLS30-154951 Quinn'Z's Avatar
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    My ammeter was puttering with the Napa 17 volt alt. Now nothing. I believe I used the thread you suggested,#3, I was getting change voltage on Napa alt, again, over charging at 17 volts. Fml. Batt dying on phone. I be been trying to read all the schematics on my phone searching and searching. Thanks for your patience. I'll try and be more specific in my next post. Thanks again

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    '73 HLS30-154951 Quinn'Z's Avatar
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    Ok, I started over. I bought a Reman alt, internally regulated, I ran a hot key on only wire to the S terminal, with a Diode (stripe on the alt side). The two yellow wires are jumped to the white wire at the old regulator plug and has power all of the time. The ground wire that went to the regulator is grounded to the fire wall. When started the ammeter moves to positive charge but as you rev up a Lil bit it pegs and the yellow wire gets smoking hot. Turning the car off again, when I unplug the yellow wire jumper I hear a relay under the passenger side dash click and my battery drain goes away. I don't know where to go from here.

  8. #8
    No more body roll! SteveJ's Avatar
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    Well, the click you hear is the fuel pump relay. Hopefully I can have a chance to review the 73 wiring diagram and come up with some solutions for you. Don't expect any answers before you wake up on Saturday.
    73 240Z
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    Still not clear why you're doing some things. No offense. The zhome instructions and my comments don't fit what you're describing as being done.

    The S wire is "on" all the time, not switched. It should be connected close to the battery positive terminal. A common spot is the big lug on the starter solenoid, or just directly to the positive terminal. No diode.

    The L wire is the one that needs a diode. But you should probably leave the diode out for now. It's only there to keep the engine from continuing to run after you turn the key off.

    Not sure about your other connections. You said that two yellow wires are jumped to a white wire. Don't know which wires those are. Then a yellow wire starts smoking. If one yellow starts smoking, then all three wires should be getting hot, right? They're all jumped together.

    If you have a load on the ammeter (battery drain) with the key off that goes away when you disconnect the yellow wire, then that yellow wire (the one that you disconnected at the end) must be connecting the battery to a device that uses current. So that is not right.

    You've mentioned measured voltages but haven't really confirmed that the wires you're connecting to S and L, and the white charge wire, have the correct voltages before you start the engine. It really helps to be methodical and careful when getting in to the wiring. Confirm that L is 12 volts switched, S is 12 volts always, the white wire is 12 volts always, before starting the engine. I assume that you have a voltmeter.

    As it stands now, it looks like you have several wires incorrectly connected. It's not clear why. The zhome page is pretty clear, just confirm the voltages at each wire before connecting, in case of differences between years. It looks like zhome might be for 1971, you have a 1973.

  10. #10
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    I would suggest SteveJ & Zed Head, with multi-meter and wiring diagram in hand, jump a plane to the Big Island to get this Z on the road. It is very beautiful this time of year, I was there 30 years ago last month.

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    Happy Hawaii Trip Anniversary, Bonzi!

    Seriously, I can see how someone could get some wires crossed in doing the conversion, especially considering that many of the original wires are left disconnected when it's done, just hanging around waiting to cause trouble. I still have a spare hot wire and a switched hot wire hanging loose in the engine bay (insulated of course), waiting for some purpose along with a few dead wires.

    I tried the conversion by "connecting colored wires" when I did mine even though it was against my normal inclinations and ended up with a dead battery the next day due to one small difference that hadn't been addressed in the instructions (1976 has a brake warning lamp check relay wire that runs through the external regulator), as helpful as they were. It's always better to know exactly what each wire does before doing anything.

    In Quinn's case, new wires could be run from the battery and a switched source just to confirm that the alternator works correctly, leaving the old regulator completely disconnected. A voltmeter would be needed. Then the appropriate wires could be chosen from the original regulator wires, just to neaten things up, if wanted. Of course, some of the regulator wires might have a dual purpose and that's where other problems can crop up. But those can be tracked down individually. The internal alternator really only needs four circuits connected to work (#4,the ground, typically comes through the mounting points).

    Which brings up one thing that's typically not checked but which should be - confirm that you have good ground from the alternator case to battery negative, with the old regulator disconnected. An ohm-meter will be needed.

  12. #12
    '73 HLS30-154951 Quinn'Z's Avatar
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    I'm seriously about to burn down my Datsun. But first i'm going to take me Carquest alt to Napa to check and my Napa battery to Carquest and it either one if them are bad I'll burn them down instead.
    first off, no worries guys, if I were you id think I was a dumbAss too. How hard can 4 wires be? The first week was Napa's faulty alternator. Now I am just stumped. I've basically straight wired everything from scratch and my voltmeter barely moves off 12.5ish. Its an analog meter.
    The two yellow wires and all related were all getting hot as was the charge back"A" whore and red wire.
    With a new switch source to L ,and a straight to pos S, factory (checked) ground at E, and factory red/white at A with continuous 12 volts, I was getting 12 volts at the battery post and this never changed but I was getting 15-16 volts when I rev the engine at the R/W wire under the passenger dash, which also was very hot, and next too a all white wire that was also very hot of the same gauge.
    So. Now I have run a wire from the A terminal straight to the battery positive post and run a straight ground from E to the inner fender and i'm only getting 12.5 at idle and maybe 12.8 revving up at the battery or the alt A post. No wires get hot now but nothing is happening.
    So. I'm all for you guys coming the island with a book, a diagram, or a miracle, or better yet some gasoline to help me burn it down.
    I still have to drive into town to use the internet.
    A tire gas gone flat.
    I'm leaking coolant from my thermostat to housing gasket. My gauges don't work, just Speedo and ammeter.
    I'm going to go drink until I can forget what I've done so I can start over again Tuesday. Sorry for the book post.

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    '73 HLS30-154951 Quinn'Z's Avatar
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    "related were all getting hot as was the charge back"A" whore and red wire." You may have guessed, whore= white. Imma mess. Freud made my phone.

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    '73 HLS30-154951 Quinn'Z's Avatar
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    Carquest alternator, no out put.

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    Hey bud, pm me your phone number and I can help you. Thats what I do for a living is work at a starting and charging specialist. I have 2 73 240's, i've never jumped or touched the regulator plugs, just left them plugged in. I'd be glad to text you pictures and walk you through what is wrong. S is battery sense, it shouldn't have a diode, it needs to read constant battery voltage to know what to put out. The other terminal is either "lamp" or "trio", this would be the Top terminal on that alt you have a T plug, the top part of the T is the lamp trio and should have voltage only when you turn the ignition on. If you don't put a diode in the car will not turn off with the key because the alt will backfeed voltage to the ignition. The S terminal needs battery voltage or it won't kick on and charge. Hopefully this helps, that bird nest you've got going on there looks fun we deal with stuff like that all day long.

  16. #16
    '73 HLS30-154951 Quinn'Z's Avatar
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    thanks mike, where did you post the special help quinn post?

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    Its right on here. Did you get it working?

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    '73 HLS30-154951 Quinn'Z's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MotoManMike View Post
    Its right on here. Did you get it working?
    so, the MotoManmike saved me from aternator peril, on the 79 280zx alternator the L and the S terminals are swapped thus producing no alt output/atlernator death or a battery drain of arround 9 volts in my particular case. thanks so much so checking on that diagram and helping me out bro. i was swconds away from zapping another alternator and spending another month scratching my head and feeling like a rAtard.

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    Glad you got it fixed. Not sure what your comments mean though, since all of the internally regulated alternators from 78 to 83 are wired the same way, and the FSM diagram is correct I believe.

    Just posting, with pictures, for any future alt swappers. The top of the T is S and up and down part is L. Of course, in the FSM drawings, the T is upside down, maybe that's the issue.

    I copied two, from 78 and 79, just to show what I mean.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	1978 Alt Diagram.jpg 
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Name:	1979 Alt Diagram.jpg 
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    I love solving charging and starting issues, it will never get old to me. I'm always still amazed though by the guys that use a test light for drains. I used to, now i've got an amp clamp that goes over the battery terminal but alot of the newer vehicles have a certain amount of mil-amp draw normally so its hard to do with a test light anymore. I'm glad you are back riding. Good luck with getting all the other bugs worked out, these cars are awesome, keep it alive for us.

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