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Thread: Broken Plastic in Oil Pan - Broken Timing Chain Guide?

  1. #1
    Registered User Hardway's Avatar
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    Default Broken Plastic in Oil Pan - Broken Timing Chain Guide?

    Well if its not one thing its another. I dropped my oil pan this morning to change the oil pan gasket. Everything went better than expected but that changed once I look in the bottom of the oil pan. Below are pictures of what I found. Whatever it is I think it broke down the center as the bigger pieces have a small lip on them. I am guessing it is the timing chain guide but I could be wrong. Has anyone else seen something like this in their oil pan? If it is the timing chain guide I am assuming it is a must have thus this may warrant pulling the engine out. Any guidance is greatly appreciated.



    08/1970 240z Series-1 #8011 - Silver, black int., 2.4L I-6, 5spd, 90% restored.
    06/1973 VW Karmann Ghia - Black convertible, 4spd, 1600cc air-cooled engine.
    11/2013 Scion FR-S - Silver, 6spd, a car with the soul of a Z for the modern times.
    Restoration thread of my old '72 240z -> http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/o...1972-240z.html

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    Registered User siteunseen's Avatar
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    Very well could be. Here are the old ones off mine. You could pull the valve cover and see down there I beleive.
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    Last edited by siteunseen; 07-01-2012 at 09:24 AM.

  3. #3
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    Yep, looks like that is it. Doooh!
    08/1970 240z Series-1 #8011 - Silver, black int., 2.4L I-6, 5spd, 90% restored.
    06/1973 VW Karmann Ghia - Black convertible, 4spd, 1600cc air-cooled engine.
    11/2013 Scion FR-S - Silver, 6spd, a car with the soul of a Z for the modern times.
    Restoration thread of my old '72 240z -> http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/o...1972-240z.html

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    Registered User siteunseen's Avatar
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    I don't think you have to pull the motor. The front cover is all (if that ain't enough).

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    Any idea if I can get away without the chain guide? The car is just a cruiser, not a racer. I am going to pull the valve cover off and see what kind of slack the chain has at this point.
    08/1970 240z Series-1 #8011 - Silver, black int., 2.4L I-6, 5spd, 90% restored.
    06/1973 VW Karmann Ghia - Black convertible, 4spd, 1600cc air-cooled engine.
    11/2013 Scion FR-S - Silver, 6spd, a car with the soul of a Z for the modern times.
    Restoration thread of my old '72 240z -> http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/o...1972-240z.html

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    Registered User siteunseen's Avatar
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    Look at the tensioner. If it's showing a lot of the plunger shaft you probably need to get in there and replace parts.

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    Registered User Hardway's Avatar
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    UPDATE: I pulled the valve cover off today to take a look at the chain. It appears only on the left chain guide has experienced any damage as it looks like the front lip/edge has broken off. The chain has plenty of tension on the left side but has some slack on the right side, to the point that the right side is not touching its guide. I have also included a picture of the inside of the valve cover. Is this normal for where the chain is located?



    08/1970 240z Series-1 #8011 - Silver, black int., 2.4L I-6, 5spd, 90% restored.
    06/1973 VW Karmann Ghia - Black convertible, 4spd, 1600cc air-cooled engine.
    11/2013 Scion FR-S - Silver, 6spd, a car with the soul of a Z for the modern times.
    Restoration thread of my old '72 240z -> http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/o...1972-240z.html

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    Registered User siteunseen's Avatar
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    My right side is tight against the guide but it's new stuff so that's expected. I know there is a slack side on timing chains, maybe you could find out but I imagine it's not the right side because the tensioner is on the left. I watch all the NCIS and CSI shows so I'll say your chain IS rubbing that valve cover on the right side too, where your guide is gone. IMHO I would fix that before I drove it. But I'm like that.
    Last edited by siteunseen; 07-08-2012 at 03:25 PM.

  9. #9
    Registered User olzed's Avatar
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    I also would not drive the car like that.
    In your second picture it looks as though the guide has lost it's surface as well.

    Bite the bullet and fix it.

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    I agree with the comment above.

    It seems you don't have any rubbing material left on your guide. The tension in the chain might not be ok resulting in loose chain hitting sometimes the cover.
    Since the crankshaft is turning in a clockwise motion, it is normal to have tight side on the right of the engine.
    Another indication could be to check notches on cam sproket. You would immediately see if the chain is still operating properly. I bet it does not.
    It also means your cam is not timed correctly anymore, you're most likely loosing power & torque.

    It's an important job to change the chain but it is really doable.

    You need to:
    - lift the front of the car
    - remove the hood but it is optional
    - remove the alternator belt (the alternator also would help but it not necessary)
    - flush the coolant
    - remove the radiator
    - remove the fan
    - remove the distributor & the oil pump
    - remove crankshaft pulley bolt (impact gun is best but you can have it with a large breaker bar)
    - remove the crankshaft damper/pulley (you need an extractor for this but you can do it with a piece of wood and a mallet)
    - remove all the bolts on the cover
    - remove the water pump
    - remove the cover

    then you have access to all the parts you need to take care of, then you put everything back together with new parts & gaskets.
    I would suggest in the process to inspect oil pump & water pump. Replace them if necessary.

    It is a 2 days job for someone who hasn't done it before if you take you're time and do it carefully.
    Last edited by Lazeum; 07-10-2012 at 02:04 AM.

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    Thanks for the info guys. I am going to take your advice and replace the chain and the associated components. Would I be okay with a Beck Arnley chaing that the parts stores carry or I should I get a Nissan chain? I see other people talk about ITM timing components. Any thoughts on who to get the gaskets from? I have used Fel-Pro in the past on small block Chevys but this is my first real deep dive in to an L-series engine.
    08/1970 240z Series-1 #8011 - Silver, black int., 2.4L I-6, 5spd, 90% restored.
    06/1973 VW Karmann Ghia - Black convertible, 4spd, 1600cc air-cooled engine.
    11/2013 Scion FR-S - Silver, 6spd, a car with the soul of a Z for the modern times.
    Restoration thread of my old '72 240z -> http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/o...1972-240z.html

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    Beck Arnley is good. I've used FelPro and it's always worked for me.

    Chuck
    East Coast Z Nationals held at the Carlisle Import & Kit Nationals - May 16-18, 2014 Carlisle, PA
    www.carlisleevents.com/events/import
    1969 240Z #390
    1971 Fairlady Z
    1971 240Z parts car
    1972 240Z ITS race car
    1972 240Z turbo
    1974 260Z turbo
    1975 280Z my first car
    1978 620 King Cab

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    I got everything ordered. No one has anything in stock for several days except a new oil filter. Should I wait to put my oil pan back on at this point? If I am not too tired once I get off work I will go ahead and drain the radiator and get my my wife to help me get the hood off.
    08/1970 240z Series-1 #8011 - Silver, black int., 2.4L I-6, 5spd, 90% restored.
    06/1973 VW Karmann Ghia - Black convertible, 4spd, 1600cc air-cooled engine.
    11/2013 Scion FR-S - Silver, 6spd, a car with the soul of a Z for the modern times.
    Restoration thread of my old '72 240z -> http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/o...1972-240z.html

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    If you drop something in the oil pan you'll wish you hadn't out it on! I know how my luck is.

    Chuck
    East Coast Z Nationals held at the Carlisle Import & Kit Nationals - May 16-18, 2014 Carlisle, PA
    www.carlisleevents.com/events/import
    1969 240Z #390
    1971 Fairlady Z
    1971 240Z parts car
    1972 240Z ITS race car
    1972 240Z turbo
    1974 260Z turbo
    1975 280Z my first car
    1978 620 King Cab

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    before you remove the hood, make sure to mark with a pencil or a marker where it is located back to hinges. If you don't do it, you might have a hell of a time to align your hood back as it is today. Since it is counter intuitive to align, you will solve yourself some troubles.

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    Registered User siteunseen's Avatar
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    Here's something to look at http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/thread46186.html
    Good pictures always help me. And all the bolts on the front cover and water pump are diffrent so pay close attention on their locations. Don't forget the oil slinger, that's a dumb mistake I made because I got in a hurry. You'll need a rubber hammer too.

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    Got the parts in last week. Upon looking at the new guides that came in the timing chain kit and comparing them to the ones in the car, they look just like what I already have in the car. The new curved guide does not have a lip on it like the old one did but broke off. Maybe this has become an common event and they are no longer putting them on? I am sure several of you are shaking your heads in disappointment but I need to get this car back on the road. Its getting very hot here in Austin TX and my buddy has a shop with A/C. If I am going to do anymore on the car beyond items that only take a few hours in the early morning I am going to drive it over there. As of right now the oil pan is back on and I hope to have the other projects wrapped up over the next few weekends as time and heat permits. If I decide to dive back in to this project again I will post up my findings.
    08/1970 240z Series-1 #8011 - Silver, black int., 2.4L I-6, 5spd, 90% restored.
    06/1973 VW Karmann Ghia - Black convertible, 4spd, 1600cc air-cooled engine.
    11/2013 Scion FR-S - Silver, 6spd, a car with the soul of a Z for the modern times.
    Restoration thread of my old '72 240z -> http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/o...1972-240z.html

  18. #18
    Registered User siteunseen's Avatar
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    What are you telling us? That guide was OK?

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    Quote Originally Posted by siteunseen View Post
    What are you telling us? That guide was OK?
    I am sorry about that. Yes, that is what I was saying, the guide in my car appears to be okay so I am rolling the dice and moving forward.
    08/1970 240z Series-1 #8011 - Silver, black int., 2.4L I-6, 5spd, 90% restored.
    06/1973 VW Karmann Ghia - Black convertible, 4spd, 1600cc air-cooled engine.
    11/2013 Scion FR-S - Silver, 6spd, a car with the soul of a Z for the modern times.
    Restoration thread of my old '72 240z -> http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/o...1972-240z.html

  20. #20
    Registered User olzed's Avatar
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    I wonder where all the bits in the pan came from? I'm sure the straight guide in your picture has lost it's wear surface.

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