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Thread: I do not understand car shows...

  1. #1
    Supporting Member Zedyone_kenobi's Avatar
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    Default I do not understand car shows...

    I entered my Z in another big local car show with 300+ cars. And like most TEXAS car shows, it had over 40 categories with which to enter However, for imports you have to settle one of two categories. Old import or New import. Then they are 38+ categories for AMerican cars. Every possible combination of American car has its own class. 1967-1968 Custom Camaro non race car. 1967-1968 camaro original restomod. ETC it goes on and on.

    I do not know how these judges quantify the ratings. I have finished 2nd in old import 3 times. I have lost all three times to a 60's VW beetle that has been built from the ground up as a show car. Now I knew once I arrived I was going to lose to this VW. It had perfect paint, perfect seats, you get the picture. However, the amount of traffic between my Z and the VW was 50:1 in my favor. Yes this sounds like sour grapes, and honestly it is. I am whining a bit here!!!

    Getting beat by a car that the vast majority of people never stopped to look at is heart wrenching...

    Now having said that... let me vent a bit. I have a buddy that has completely rebuilt his 1986 944 turbo. I mean completely, every part straight from Germany. Has 40k original miles and you could eat off the undercarriage. He was in NEW import of course. As that was the only class available for him. Last year he lost to 2011 M6 with dealer plates. Today he came in second to a brand new FRS.

    How is it that a car that is 26 years old that has been painstakingly restored to near perfection gets beat by a new car that just pulled up and popped the hood? It would mean that all they look for is cleanliness, and NOTHING else. Hardly fair.

    The level of work to prepare that 944 was exponentially greater than just buying an new car and running a duster over it.

    THe solution is to have more classes so that a 26 year old car does not have to compete against a brand new car that is completely stock with 35 miles on it.

    Besides 'quit whining'

    Any advice?
    1971 240Z HLS30-38691
    93.9% done and getting better every day
    Now with 100% more DATSUN SPIRIT L28 Power
    1968 Datsun 2000 SRL311-03416

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    Registered User conedodger's Avatar
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    I quit entering car shows. It worked for me.

    But, I feel your pain. Arbitrary. The only 'class' I ever care about is People's Choice...
    Rob
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    1973 Datsun 240Z Restoration project. New paint in original white. E31 head on 2.4 block. Nissan Motorsports header. R200 with Nissan motorsports LSD.

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    Registered User Walter Moore's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zedyone_kenobi View Post
    I entered my Z in another big local car show ... It would mean that all they look for is cleanliness, and NOTHING else. Hardly fair.
    Congratulations! You have just discovered the dark secret of car show judging! Have a nice day.
    '71 240Z, Because any fool can drive fast in a straight line.

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    Supporting Member EScanlon's Avatar
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    It isn't just the Texas shows, it happens everywhere, in just about every state and in just about every category/classification/customization differentiatior you can imagine.

    It's depressing to lose to what is obviously a "check-book" car. That obvious "bought for show" car that the guy just received from California in a covered trailer and he's putting it up against cars that were not only driven to the show, but that also see use miles during the year. It then really grates when he gets up on stage and "brags" about the car and it's features as being the most desireable bar none; when it's obvious the guy couldn't let the air out of the tires, let alone effect a restoration.

    The show judges may have categories and most importantly trophies for putting cars into, but when you only have a few imports show up, it can be plainly obvious that every one is getting a trophy when your award reads "Japanese Car in Red paint manufactured in the first 6 months of 1971".

    Then you have the other extreme, where you simply call your award category "70's Import Sports Cars", and you now have someone complain that a De Tomaso Pantera should NOT be considered in the same vein as a Z because of their original MSRP, even though they're both "Sports Cars" from the 70's.

    Show organizers are constantly fighting that battle: Do we have a LOT of awards, so that everyone (or the majority) wins one? or Do we only have a few trophies and that way those who win it will have won a really contested award?

    The first will get you branded as a "shoo-in" show (everyone gets a trophy), and the second has them grumbling that only "those in the know" or who are "connected" win.

    But the award you obviously won today was People's Choice. And that award is one of the more contentious for the promoter.

    So, welcome to the Show world, where you are surprised at what people will do for a cheap tube of plastic with flashy metallic highlights. I'm not putting down the awards that are given for well deserved and dedicated effort (you don't get a gold medallion just for showing up), but more for the shows that hand out cryptic "Top Winner" awards to just about every car that enters. Typically these are your newer shows who have to give out a lot in order to get participants to register.

    Both my cars have received enough awards that I could probably donate them to a new and starting show and sponsoring their complete first year hand out of. But anymore I go for the camarederie between the owners, and register only when I have to in order to be in the same area. If I don't, I'm comfortable parking in the "riff-raff" area and drawing people there.

    FWIW
    E

    PS: One of the sayings the ISCA judges like to bandy back and forth is: "If you got into the car shows for the trophies, then save yourself a LOT of mental grief and money expensed and go to your local trophy shop and have your own trophy custom made. You'll be happier."
    71 240 920 Gold
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    '72 240Z(G) 3.2L
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    As a judge, the question I always ask folks that are so concerned about winning a car show trophy is this - how much does the trophy cost? I then offer to hand them the price of a trophy and tell them to go buy one if it's that important to them. Cruel? Yes. Honest? Yes. If you need someone else to vindicate your own opinion that your vehicle is the best one there, you're just asking to be hurt.

    As to a dark secret that the best car doesn't always win is and can be true in more cases than most, I would have to say that for the past 12 years at the annual Z conventions, the best cars actually won. So if you want to win at car shows that aren't Z-centric you going to have to have the best dam resto or a wildly modified Z to garnish attention and interest. Other that that, either stop entering your Z or stop whining cause it's at best a $50. fuzking trophy.

    And last year my 240 took second place to a 1956 VW Bug, original owner's son, that was totally un-restored and had all the wear marks of a well used and loved vehicle. I voted for the VW and it turns out he voted for mine. That VW wasn't pretty or clean but it was a wonderful survivor that was still driven and enjoyed.
    if a little knowledge can make you dangerous, I'm a little dangerous

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    It never cross my mind to sit beside a car and have people asking questions , but it did. I came to the hobby some 5 yrs ago, 510's , had a super nice 4 dr , for a while till I blew the motor and sold it . Got a time capsule Orange 510 2 dr with period mods and the Z bug bit me. Hunted for a Cali Z for close to a year, then traded two cars for my current Z. She is a "SUPER CAR'' the work done is worth showing her. So I have entered her in local established car shows. My advice, go there with a humble attitude , lost of trailer queens there and cars detailed to the max , yours is just one more. My experience this past spring/ summer was great. yes I washed and wax her for the event but in no way to the level as most in the show. Went to 3 events and Z-VETTE got the attention from the judging panels in these categories : TOP 50 in a show with over 300 cars, Best Import Modified, and Nicest Foreign........Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by 72 OJ; 10-20-2012 at 08:13 PM.

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    Registered User tlorber's Avatar
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    "Ya know what really grinds my gears...?"

    The statements above are testimonials to why these cars are for driving. I love my Z but it Is just not that exotic. One's validation should come from the feel of the car on the road, not from the accolades of others.

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    Registered User Bonzi Lon's Avatar
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    As a teenager I would pit crew for a small town drag racer where the winner got some cash and trophies to the runners up. He always had a saying about that, "It takes he++ of a lot of salt & pepper to make those trophies taste good." I've never forgot it. I know car shows do not give out cash, but the statement still holds true. Its all for fun and the love of being there. Sometimes you meet someone famous which makes it all that more special than winning something that sits on the shelf and collects dust. My drag racer's wife HATED all those trophies because OF the dust. The 2 trophies I have won so far are now covered in dust, no wife to complain though. hehe

    Bonzi Lon
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    I still go to cars shows because they are a lot of fun, but I don't enter into the contest anymore. Too frustrating and ultimately self-defeating. I have my own windshield card I made up, it doesn't have my name on it just a few facts about the car for anyone that might be interested. I get to check out all the hard work other guys have done and chat, have a hotdog and leave when I've seen everything. It works for me.
    Chris
    1970 240Z HLS30 01955 March/70

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    Nova Scotia,Canada,Earth Blue's Avatar
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    Stephen, time to make a trailer queen!

    Since your street car looks so great, I can imagine what your show car would look like.

    Fight fire with fire! Maybe do a purpose built 2000 roadster as it has the "cute" factor that can do battle with the cuteness of a beetle.
    There is scarcely anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse, and sell a little more cheaply.
    The person who buys on price alone is this man's lawful prey.


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    Supporting Member Zedyone_kenobi's Avatar
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    You guys are absolutely right.
    I was having the best day talking Z cars for hours and I should focus on that next time.

    Gosh I hate trailer queen VW bugs.

    It could have been worse.
    There was such a nice little guy who painstakingly restored his grandmas late 70's Ford Granada four door fown to the chassis

    Beauty is indeed in the eye of the beholder
    1971 240Z HLS30-38691
    93.9% done and getting better every day
    Now with 100% more DATSUN SPIRIT L28 Power
    1968 Datsun 2000 SRL311-03416

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    Here another trophy..............Click image for larger version. 

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    Speaking as someone who organized national car shows for many years, the awards tend to be won by either people who buy a very nice car that someone else lavished time and money on (a hollow victory at best), or by someone who has channeled their anal retentive tendencies to the car hobby (a life altering obsession).

    To clear the way for others to win, and feel good about their cars, we created a "Senior Class" for cars that had won three consecutive shows. That pitted the best against the best and opened up the other classes new competition.
    Dennis
    1971 240Z - Original Owner
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    Registered User Oiluj's Avatar
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    I know what you mean. Last show I was in, there was only one award for import cars. A pristine XKE that was "professionally" restored won the trophy. The cost of the restoration work alone was probably three times as much as I have in my Z. It was absolutely beautiful, so I didn't mind losing to it. I did win a "vendor's choice" award in that show, which was a complete surprise. My car is for driving, and will eventually show a sight patina of repaired paint chips, seat wear, etc.

    At a clubr gathering, a brand new, "off-the-showroom" GTR won the top prize. To me, that's just completely wrong. It seems to me that there were many cars, (mine not included), there that better deserved "best in show". But that's how car shows go...

    As I did with the 1960 MGA I replaced with my Z, car shows for me are about chatting with folks about my car, and seeing other nice cars. I'm just not anal retentive enough in my restoration or preparation to win a best in class trophy. I appreciate those that do it, but for me it's just not worth it.
    Julio
    1972 240Z (in-progress, 95% complete)
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    Supporting Member Diseazd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 72 OJ View Post
    Here another trophy..............Click image for larger version. 

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    OJ........You are definitely something else! I love your enthusiasm.......you really are a Z phanatic. Good job on the trophies and the girl.
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/1404980...7600346077563/
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    70, 71, 2 72's, and a 73 240z....
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diseazd View Post
    OJ........You are definitely something else! I love your enthusiasm.......you really are a Z phanatic. Good job on the trophies and the girl.
    Yes , the Z addiction is in full force and the Zweet babe is ....................that is for me to know and you to figure out

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    Go Fast, Don't Crash 280~Master's Avatar
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    I have hit a few local shows this month and won nothing. Zero nada zippo but have had people coming out of the wood work taking pics and talking about the Z. How they love it and remember all about it. The last show I lost to a 69 camaro that has been ground up restored buy a shop in town. Then brought to the show by the shop not even the guy who paid for the restro. Trust me it was beautiful and deserved to win. For me its not about the trophy but the cause. Help out cancer kids or breast cancer and even wounded warriors. Would I like to win? sure for bragging rights only thats it.
    What does bother me about most of the car shows around my area is the way trophies are awarded. I have seen a car take home 6 trophies at the same show. They let one car win several classes and I think this is wrong. How do you win best paint, best interior, best wheels, best stance ect then take home best of show to top it all off. Judging should be on a points system from 0-10 and the awards need to be handed out on a tier level. If youy taking home best of show should you also get to take home 4 or 5 trophies. To me its ends up lopsided because the best of show winner always walks out with the 5 or 6 trophies.
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    Known Zitus carrier! hls30.com's Avatar
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    Look at the car show you are considering. Who are the organizers, and are they active participants in more than one Marque/nationality...that will tell you a lot about the results of a show before you enter it. Many larger communities have Car Club Consortiums that bring the leaders-if not the members-of the local car clubs together for a meeting once a month, and allow the clubs to share a common calendar, and pool resources for major events-I set that up for COastal Z Club several years ago and it allows members of clubs that might not actually interact to have that opportunity on neutral ground, Leading up to the Zcon 2011, I exchanged several emails with the President of a local Ferrari Cub, and attended their concours as his guest, subsequently he asked me to help him find a 240Z, and he bought one. He came to our convention as well, and was seriously impressed with the entries in our car show-Both Ferrari and Porsche had their show on the Grass in the heat!
    I saw similar things with Carl Becks Rally Z, #300, at the Amelia Island Concours, and at the Hilton Head Concours-some people openly embrace Zs, and some don't.
    As to winning a car show... In most that do not have an available judging guide Bling in King-and will hide lost of piss poor details. If there is a judging guide get it and use it for all it is worth.
    I had one local Z owner tell me a car show "isn't about the little stuff it is about the big picture, make it eye-catching, and different-the details will get lost in the gloss" This guy has a 240Z that is exactly that-He would not bring it to Zcon, and after four years of inviting him to the local club meetings, I know he knows his opinion would not be true there. But at every open show he enters, he wins-more often than not multiple awards. His car is a beautiful color, his car is as mechanically perfect as it can be, he has lots of gloss, and chrome and polish, but he also has many body and paint flaws, overspray under the hood, and fit and finish issues scattered throughout the car...but as he knows, in the bright sunshine, details get lost in the gloss!
    I'll add some pictures of his car in the next couple of days.
    A Z is beautiful from any angle, I just happen to prefer to view from the drivers' seat!

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    Car Shows are a hoot. I have taken my restored Willys CJ-2A to a show where the "judge" asked, "isn't it supposed to be green?" (CJ=Civilian Jeep) - oh well. My vehicles tend to tax the show organizers as to what class it should be in - it really isn't that important to me as the shows let me meet some very interesting people, see some nicely done vehicles. By the way, I saw the 240 at the show Saturday (really well done car) -had a nice chat with the owner and left before the awards. I will take my '76 280 to shows when it is finished for the fun of the show. I have taken a restored 1942 Dodge Military Ambulance to shows - it has been "street/stock original", "truck", "special interest", "4x4" and probably some classes I don't remember. I did go to one show where the classes were year of manufacture - that was interesting. Our local show has only "participant choice" and "people's choice" awards. To win participant choice was really the most meaningful award that I have taken home.
    1976 GHLS30-036614
    1946 Willys CJ-2A

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    Jim,

    My father & I had a C-2A (korean war?) vintage that I fixed up. I used it to cruise around town in it after college. My father used it for duck hunting in the San Joaquin delta.
    Really great vehicle. The manual gave info on tuning the carburetor to run on kerosene to aviation gas.
    The jeep was eventually sold to my second cousin when my father stopped hunting.
    Julio
    1972 240Z (in-progress, 95% complete)
    CZC# 15388

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    Over the last several years I have learned that each show is very different and judges range from clueless to well informed. Each show is "like a box of chocolates, you never know what you will get".

    Personally, I try to get into shows that are 'off the beaten path', those that typically do not feature Z's. In those shows, people seem to be very intrigued that a Z would show up, which leads to some very nice conversation. Currently, that is my main reason for entering a car show. I want to be around people that are interested in the Z and enjoy talking Z's or similar cars. Any trophies received are just gravy.

    I have found the high end Concours to be the most enjoyable (that is, if I can get in) because those spectators attending are typically paying some decent money to get into the show. As a result, they are very interested and well informed for the most part. I think the shows that are free bring out those that are perhaps a bit more impressed by 'bling'. That definitely is not my Z.

    To be honest, I was very unimpressed with the 2012 ZCON car show. I think perhaps that my expectations were too high. I was expecting something like 200-400 Z's at the show, and I don't even think there were 100. The turnout was so low that there were only 2 Z's in the 240Z stock class that I was in. We get more stock 240's than that at our club meetings. And, my car really was 'not a good fit' for the show. The ZCON is for Z's that are restored to excellent condition. Preservation or un-restored Z's are not well received by the judges, nor is there a class for them.

    One of my favorite shows was the Dana Point Concours, and I didn't even place. The conversations were incredible, and parking my car on the fairway near the St Regis hotel in Dana Point over- looking the ocean was unparalleled and was well worth the admission fee. The brushed aluminum placard they set-up in front of your car is nicer than most of the trophies I have received. Yet the icing on the cake was when an elderly couple asked if I could take pictures of them with my car. The wife took some pics of the husband around the car which kind of made is looked like he owned the car. I asked them about the pictures and they said my Z looked exactly like the one the husband drove when they were first dating over 40 years earlier, and it brought back wonderful memories for them. Moments like that are priceless.
    Anyway, just my take.

    Best regards,
    Rich

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    I've been in many car shows over the past 6-7 years and so many of them are full of the Detroit iron. Most times I'm the only Z in the show among a few other sports cars. I enjoy the conversations with viewers about their story of when they had Z years ago...heard hundreds of them. If you consider your Z car among all the others YOU are the unique one in a sea of Mustangs, Camaros and Vettes. Have I won anything..sure and it's fun, but that's not the reason to go. I just recently entered a Tri-State All Datsun Show nearby in Arizona. Whata Hoot! I don't think I've talked so much with so many great Datsun enthusiasts ever! Z's, 1600/2000 roadsters, 510's, pickups. It was the best show ever. I didn't win an award though many stated they voted for me...there were some great pristine 240's that did and should have gotten the trophies.
    Late 260Z; 2005 Daytona Blue paint; Triple Webers 40DCOE; competition springs w/Tokico HP shocks; Koenig 17x7 Crosshairs w/ Yokohama AVS 215/45 WR 17; Original owner; Show car w/ many awards

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    Known Zitus carrier! hls30.com's Avatar
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    At the end of the day it all comes down to this, did you plan/build your Z for you or for recognition from others? Those of us who built/planned it for our enjoyment are happy with what our Z brings us without a show win-the Z is enough and everything else is great tasting cake-an unexpected surprise! Those who planned/built or bought a Z for recognition, have to get it from others...nothing wrong with either one, just different kinds of people. Getting bent out of shape, or putting too much value in other peoples opinions means your own opinion is not as important to you as it should be-after all, as long as what you are doing is not illegal, immoral, or unethical, the only one who really cares about it and has to be happy with it is you.

    Back to Car shows:
    I have been thinking about car shows quite a bit in the last several months-in getting ready to host another one for the local/regional area, and here is what I am currently planning to appeal to/satisfy the greatest number of participants-in order to grow the participation year after year.
    1) All Judging procedures will be made available at least a month before the show-and support materials will be fully documented inside-Questions will be addressed openly and answers made public and readily available. Essentially, Cleanliness, Uniformity of Fit, and Uniformity of Finish will rule and rated with easily prepared testing supplies.
    2) Every model in attendance within each Marque in attendance will be awarded. Best 240Z, best 260Z, Best 300ZX, Best Best 510, Best S2000, best Edsel, Best Pantera, Best Isodera, etc...
    3) One member of Every Marque in attendance will be awarded with a Best Paint, Cleanest Interior, Cleanest Engine Bay, and ultimately Best of Show(Meaning there will Best paint on a Nissan, Best paint on a Toyota, best paint on a F.O. R. D. )
    4) Other awards will be given, but not specifically advertised-best starting point, most promise, best improvement (in the second year) best evidence of great work.....
    5) We will use Judges from the local clubs, but they will not judge their own marques, to keep temptation at a minimum, and let them see the best of what other marques have.

    My thought is it is easier for most people to judge Cleanliness, Uniformity of Fit, and Uniformity of Finish-in what they are not overly familiar with-not the marque specific stuff they are used to seeing-it is too easy for many people to see what they want instead of what is when they look at something they see with great regularity. I also believe more, and meaningful awards mean more satisfaction to the entrants at the show, and the point is to further the hobby as a whole and not the collection of a trophy whore.
    Last edited by hls30.com; 10-23-2012 at 11:32 AM.
    A Z is beautiful from any angle, I just happen to prefer to view from the drivers' seat!

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    I have a very nice 72 240Z (Lime) one of the 37 that was part of the Z Vintage Program from back in the mid to late 90's. Since owning it (4 years now) I have redone much of the engine bay area and cleaned up some of the small stress cracks in the paint. It is truely a "show car".....not a trailer queen as it does get driven. When I first started doing the show scene with it 4 years ago I couldn't understand why I didn't get 1st place in the Import/Foreign Class every time. When I didn't I would come home all pissed off about it. Finally, my wife had enough......"did you buy this car to win trophies or because you love Z's?" needless to say I was embarrased....she was right.....WTF was I thinking?? Anyway, I go to shows now to enjoy all the folks who like to talk to you about "their" Z and how much fun they had with it when they owned one. Not all judges are going to like our cars and I have accepted that. The ONE thing that I do take very seriously are the Z convention shows and the quest for a gold medallion. You are not being judged against anyone....it's your car vs. 300 points (actually 290 or better). I have been lucky enough to participate in the Z convention's from 2010 and 2011....and in 2013 it's close by in NH. Local car shows are a chance to relax and talk about the cars that we all truely love....trophy or no trophy!!

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    Please post pictures of your Lime( Nissan/Datsun/Dealer Resto) Z,,,,,,please,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,BTW ,I was very lucky to get the attention from the judging panels on those events , it might have been a factor that my current Z was not shown at those venues before.
    Last edited by 72 OJ; 10-23-2012 at 11:25 AM.

  26. #26
    Registered User EuroDat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by conedodger View Post
    I quit entering car shows. It worked for me.

    But, I feel your pain. Arbitrary. The only 'class' I ever care about is People's Choice...
    Im with conedodger. Stop doing that to yourself and go cruising with your friends, more enjoyment with poeple that understand what effort you put into your car to get where it is.

    PS. OJ, your so entertaining. You get first prize for enthusiasm
    Cheers
    Last edited by EuroDat; 10-23-2012 at 11:56 AM.

  27. #27
    Her Majesty the 26th 26th-Z's Avatar
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    " Please post pictures of your Lime( Nissan/Datsun/Dealer Resto) Z "

    Best looking Vintage Z of all of them and the ONLY picture of someone else's Z I have framed and hanging on the wall. Superb car. This car is on the cover of my Vintage Z research essay.
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  28. #28
    Supporting Member Diseazd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jtmader View Post
    I have a very nice 72 240Z (Lime) one of the 37 that was part of the Z Vintage Program from back in the mid to late 90's. Since owning it (4 years now) I have redone much of the engine bay area and cleaned up some of the small stress cracks in the paint. It is truely a "show car".....not a trailer queen as it does get driven. When I first started doing the show scene with it 4 years ago I couldn't understand why I didn't get 1st place in the Import/Foreign Class every time. When I didn't I would come home all pissed off about it. Finally, my wife had enough......"did you buy this car to win trophies or because you love Z's?" needless to say I was embarrased....she was right.....WTF was I thinking?? Anyway, I go to shows now to enjoy all the folks who like to talk to you about "their" Z and how much fun they had with it when they owned one. Not all judges are going to like our cars and I have accepted that. The ONE thing that I do take very seriously are the Z convention shows and the quest for a gold medallion. You are not being judged against anyone....it's your car vs. 300 points (actually 290 or better). I have been lucky enough to participate in the Z convention's from 2010 and 2011....and in 2013 it's close by in NH. Local car shows are a chance to relax and talk about the cars that we all truely love....trophy or no trophy!!
    Trophy or no trophy my butt.....you win first place at ZCON two years in a row.......no wonder you don't worry about it Mader.....and with legs like yours, you need a nice car to get a girl like Sue! Just remember.....in Savanah, I finished 2nd and you finished next to last!
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    70, 71, 2 72's, and a 73 240z....
    90 300zx and a 1996 Acura NSX.....but who's counting?

  29. #29
    Known Zitus carrier! hls30.com's Avatar
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    One of the awards I am going to add is the DIM (Did It Myself) award for interior/exterior/engine for each car with proof the owner did much if not all of the work in at least that one area. Racing has gotten to the point the deepest pockets usually win, and to a great extent car shows too-I think the guy who does his own work should be recognized as well as the guy who can clear a bigger check. I know how hard it is to get the things on my own cars just the way I want them-and I recognize that effort in others.
    My belief is A passionate person spends Money and serious time on what they are actually passionate about.

    Chatting with a shop about details and signing a check means you know what you want, not necessarily that you are particularly passionate about it-the same way paying to have the yard taken care of, the house painted, or the daily driver washed. A person who loves cars is different from a person who wants to look like he loves cars. As I said on a thread long ago, a true car guy gets stuff on his hands that has to wear off because he is more passionate about doing something to the car than keeping his hands clean. That "While I am at it" gets more dirt on Car Guys and their clothes...That is not to say there aren't many levels between a car guy and a wanna be or plenty of room for both.

    I have been amazed by an intake cast by Mr. Cunningham, and several other things in the archives in a good many Z forums-The cars they were made for may, or may not be, show ready, but those owners did what they did for the love of their car. That passion for a Z is what this hobby is all about. Ask Carl Beck about restoring his Rally Z. You will see the smile and the tribulations of that adventure cross his face in sharing it with you. That passion is what the Z hobby is all about. That passion in all cars is what I want celebrated in the car show I will be hosting.
    Last edited by hls30.com; 10-23-2012 at 12:48 PM.
    A Z is beautiful from any angle, I just happen to prefer to view from the drivers' seat!

  30. #30
    Registered User Marty Rogan's Avatar
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    I am with conedodger. I quit entering car shows. Oh, my car won plenty of awards and even a couple of Best in Shows. It is very stock (maybe 3-4 not totally stock parts on it) and nicely detailed engine bay. The last show I entered, first place was given to a two-tone brown 240Z, with tons of aftermarket parts, and the engine bay that looked like a circus. The fuel rail and the manifold and various other parts were painted blue and red (and I am not talking about aeroquip hoses either). It was then that I realized that these local shows were very political. They vote for their buddies more than for a deserving car. Two people who were attending said that I had the nicest car there and were stunned to learn that I didn't even place in the show.

    That's when I decided all of the money and time and fretting over every paint chip just was not worth it to get a plastic trophy. I started putting on more and more improvements like electronic ignition, grippy steering wheel, etc. and I enjoy driving the car a whole lot more. Anytime there is a choice between going to the race track or a car show, the track wins every time, hands down.

    Zeddy, you already have the right answer. Modify your car the way that makes you happy and drive the hell out of it at the Texas Rally!! And if you want to go to a car show for some good car conversation, go for it, but don't bother paying an entry fee.

    Well that my 2 cents worth anyway.

    Marty

  31. #31
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    If you want objectivity, go to a race track. If you want subjectivity, go to a car show (or a drifting event).

  32. #32
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    I think this thread is so full of great advice not even sure who I should thank first.

    But the joy of going to car shows for me is getting to talk to others 'who have not seen one of these things in forever'

    And the fact that I was almost losing my voice at the end of the day talking to people and thanking them for their complements was just the best way to spend a sunny Saturday Afternoon.

    The most memorable part about the whole Car Show for me?

    When a 16 year old kid came up to me and started a conversation with me..."hey, do you know where Datsun started? It started when the Son of Mr. Nissan wanted to start a car company so he could build the Z, and his dad made Datsun for him..."

    I looked at him and smiled and this was my reply, "It is great you are so into automotive history, keep it up!!! But I maaaaaaay have heard a slightly different version of that story.."
    1971 240Z HLS30-38691
    93.9% done and getting better every day
    Now with 100% more DATSUN SPIRIT L28 Power
    1968 Datsun 2000 SRL311-03416

  33. #33
    Registered User Stanley's Avatar
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    As a spectator (this might sound selfish) to me it's all for the spectators. Sure participants feel different, but I just want to see the cars. Don't give a damn who wins what, just want to see something cool, or different, or classic. Maybe a shocker, like that 510 with the big rotary engine, or something I've never seen before like a Z432 or a nissan Cherry. And of course the Z's. Always pick up a few ideas for the engine bay or something.The only real gripe I've ever had about a carshow is the price of sandwiches

  34. #34
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    Default My first car show might be my last.

    Since my 71Z is almost done I thought I would enter it in a local car show in Moline, IL. There were over 400 cars entered. A friend told me this was a car club show, and if I wasn't a member don't expect any awards. Since this was my first car show ever i didn't have any high expectations. In the end over 40 awards were handed out. I noticed that there really wasn't any category for foriegn cars anyway. However, as my wife and I sat by our Z car that day, I noticed something kinda funny. Although we were surrounded by old hotrods, 67 Camaros, Mustangs, 57 Chevys, ect..ect...Almost every person that walked past our car would stop and talk to me about it. I even noticed the people on either side of me were acting a little jealous that I was getting so much attention. In fact I found it difficult to get away at times. I think since I'm here in the Mid-west, you just don't see these cars around here. Even with over 400 cars, I had seen everything in the hour or so. It turned out to be a really long day waiting for the awards to be announced. My wife and I agree that we will simply enjoy this car on our own terms, and maybe pop into a car show once in a while if we have nothing better to do that day.
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  35. #35
    Registered User conedodger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zedyone_kenobi View Post
    I think this thread is so full of great advice not even sure who I should thank first.

    But the joy of going to car shows for me is getting to talk to others 'who have not seen one of these things in forever'

    And the fact that I was almost losing my voice at the end of the day talking to people and thanking them for their complements was just the best way to spend a sunny Saturday Afternoon.

    The most memorable part about the whole Car Show for me?

    When a 16 year old kid came up to me and started a conversation with me..."hey, do you know where Datsun started? It started when the Son of Mr. Nissan wanted to start a car company so he could build the Z, and his dad made Datsun for him..."

    I looked at him and smiled and this was my reply, "It is great you are so into automotive history, keep it up!!! But I maaaaaaay have heard a slightly different version of that story.."
    Oh I still go... I love to chat it up with the gang and see the cars. Heck, I live in Reno. Hot August Nights is NOT to be missed. Single marque events are better and I do enter the Porsche Club events. In fact, I have never failed to take home something from those. In fact, once I beat a gal who cried and said she put 14 hours into cleaning her car and I won because I had raced my car that year. Well, first of all, why enter Competition and Special Interest if you haven't competed? But, I handed her the trophy and told her 'you take this, it obviously means more to you than me.'
    Rob
    2000 BMW R1100 RT-SE (for sale)
    1999 Toyota 4Runner Supercharged
    1975 Porsche 914 stroker motor autoX car
    1973 Datsun 240Z Restoration project. New paint in original white. E31 head on 2.4 block. Nissan Motorsports header. R200 with Nissan motorsports LSD.

  36. #36
    Semi-retired admin Arne's Avatar
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    Drive more, show less. That's how I look at this these days. I don't own my cars to impress other people, they are intended to impress me. They do that by providing driving pleasure. End of story. I'd rather go on a 300 mile backroad cruise than attend a car show.
    Arne - Former owner, HLS30-37705, 7/71, 905 Red
    Car blogs - 240Z - Porsche 911

  37. #37
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    Every owner and his/her car has a story. Why that specific car, that year, that model, those modifications, etc. Some folks want to own the vehicle that they drove to the prom or the first new car they ever bought with their own money, or the one they got after getting back from WWII, Korea, Vietnam, Panama, Grenada, Gulf I/II. The one they got lucky in.

    Stop at any car and ask these questions and all of a sudden you'll have the owner talking your ears off and maybe you'll find yourself a new friend in the bargain.
    if a little knowledge can make you dangerous, I'm a little dangerous

  38. #38
    Supporting Member Zedyone_kenobi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rubrbulits View Post
    Since my 71Z is almost done I thought I would enter it in a local car show in Moline, IL. There were over 400 cars entered. A friend told me this was a car club show, and if I wasn't a member don't expect any awards. Since this was my first car show ever i didn't have any high expectations. In the end over 40 awards were handed out. I noticed that there really wasn't any category for foriegn cars anyway. However, as my wife and I sat by our Z car that day, I noticed something kinda funny. Although we were surrounded by old hotrods, 67 Camaros, Mustangs, 57 Chevys, ect..ect...Almost every person that walked past our car would stop and talk to me about it. I even noticed the people on either side of me were acting a little jealous that I was getting so much attention. In fact I found it difficult to get away at times. I think since I'm here in the Mid-west, you just don't see these cars around here. Even with over 400 cars, I had seen everything in the hour or so. It turned out to be a really long day waiting for the awards to be announced. My wife and I agree that we will simply enjoy this car on our own terms, and maybe pop into a car show once in a while if we have nothing better to do that day.
    Would it be possible for our cars to look any more alike.

    I think your car looks spectacular.....stunning even!

    Love the rims.
    1971 240Z HLS30-38691
    93.9% done and getting better every day
    Now with 100% more DATSUN SPIRIT L28 Power
    1968 Datsun 2000 SRL311-03416

  39. #39
    Registered User Oiluj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hls30.com View Post
    One of the awards I am going to add is the DIM (Did It Myself) award for interior/exterior/engine for each car with proof the owner did much if not all of the work in at least that one area. I know how hard it is to get the things on my own cars just the way I want them-and I recognize that effort in others. My belief is A passionate person spends Money and serious time on what they are actually passionate about.
    I fully agree with this.

    I did all the dis-assembly, prep, 80% of the interior work, upgraded the suspension & brakes, painted & polished detachable parts, installed after-market HVAC, fabricated custom parts and did all re-assembly myself. I even ended-up with 4 stitches in my finger in the process, but finished installing the diff before going to the emergency room...

    I admit to just writing a check for the engine build and body paint, but to quote Dirty Harry, "a man's got to know his limitations". If you ask my wife, she'll be happy to tell you!

    While my car is certainly not restored to show car level, I take satisfaction in how it turned-out and the effort it took to get it there.
    Having gone through the process a few times, I REALLY appreciate the amount of work & money it takes to make a show winner...
    Julio
    1972 240Z (in-progress, 95% complete)
    CZC# 15388

  40. #40
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    To me the best car gathering is my local Sunday AM Coffee Meet , in Burtonsville MD. A very eclectic group of car and owners, American Muscle, Exotic Italians,Expensive Germans, Proper English Iron, the occasional Nippon and every thing in between . Some are show type and others like mine are well kept weather friendly drivers.Some owners are full of it and some are down to earth . It is a place to network and form new friends , lost of free advice on mechanical's and at times a helping hand on a needed repair.,,,,,,
    Last edited by 72 OJ; 10-24-2012 at 04:25 AM.

  41. #41
    Registered User madkaw's Avatar
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    Default Everyday I drive is a car show!!!

    Not to sound arrogant, but for me it is everyday I drive my car is a car show. Getting all the "thumbs up" and "nice car", and 'man that's SICK' is what it's about for me.
    I didn't build my car for show, but for me it was wanting to beable to say "I did that". And the most important part of saying- I did that- was the personal touch I put on my car to make it different than anyone elses car.
    I have only been to 2 Z car shows since my car was completed(never really done, but...) and it was all about the adventure of traveling there and hopefully meeting guys like you all there at the show. It's also about seeing things others have accomplished on their cars.
    I did win people's choice at the midwest Z show in Ohio, which was greatest trophy I could have won. It showed me that my personalized car did strike a chord with others in what we thought looked good on a Z as far as tastefull mods. It's a shame it was so freaking hot that it took away from the fun of hanging about the cars and telling war stories.
    As far as the judging-well at the midwest Z show it wasn't done all that great. I don't want to be critical becasue the judges were all voulenteers that had to work in the crazy heat. It was a lot of work to put on an event like that in that heat and the staff did a good job making sure everyone was as comfortable as possible. The biggest complaint I has was during their inspection the judging team left gas doors open on several early Z's and walked away. It was an easy way for damage to occur on these fragile cars.

    Next year the midwest show is in my back yard and I hope to help and maybe use some stuff I learned to make the show a success. More than anything I hope to make more friends in the Z community
    Steve
    71 240z,bw-5sp 2.4-40 over,balanced,e-88,big valves,ported&polished, stage2,header, triple Mikuni's 40's
    3.90 Subaru STI LSD

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by 26th-Z View Post
    " Please post pictures of your Lime( Nissan/Datsun/Dealer Resto) Z "

    Best looking Vintage Z of all of them and the ONLY picture of someone else's Z I have framed and hanging on the wall. Superb car. This car is on the cover of my Vintage Z research essay.
    Thanks very much 26th-Z....appreciate the kind words.

    Jeff Mader

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diseazd View Post
    Trophy or no trophy my butt.....you win first place at ZCON two years in a row.......no wonder you don't worry about it Mader.....and with legs like yours, you need a nice car to get a girl like Sue! Just remember.....in Savanah, I finished 2nd and you finished next to last!
    Guy - if you notice I made no mention of my awards at ZCON 2010 and 2011....they are trophies and I really could care less (although kickin' your butt was as good as it gets)!! Really, I am kidding....Guy.....we both know what we are really after is a Gold Medallion. Anything less at ZCON is just "OK". Based on what I've seen with your latest Z my money is on you in 2013 for a Gold Medallion. Oh and thanks for the kind words....as always!!

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    One more note about the local hot rod car club - when they do their annual car show, the vehicles of the members are not eligible to win any of the awards. They display them for show only and give out participant's choice and people's choice trophies. Bring the Z to the Baytown show.
    1976 GHLS30-036614
    1946 Willys CJ-2A

  45. #45
    Supporting Member Diseazd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jtmader View Post
    Guy - if you notice I made no mention of my awards at ZCON 2010 and 2011....they are trophies and I really could care less (although kickin' your butt was as good as it gets)!! Really, I am kidding....Guy.....we both know what we are really after is a Gold Medallion. Anything less at ZCON is just "OK". Based on what I've seen with your latest Z my money is on you in 2013 for a Gold Medallion. Oh and thanks for the kind words....as always!!
    Jeff.....All joking aside.....the people are what makes the shows great. ZCON is an awesome collection of the very, very best of Z people, and no matter how you spin it, the prettiest car wins......."don't hate them cause they're beautiful"! The closest thing to what it looked like from the factory or the one with the best paint, interior and engine bays win (as it should be). You're car looked superb, but the thing I enjoyed most of the whole Savannah experience was the people. Meeting members of this forum and all the other folks that love their Z's so much is what it's really all about. "Mad Mike", Bob and Carol Sharp, Carl Beck, Jim Frederick and Sheila and yes, Jeff and Sue Mader.... all the other great Z people were what I brought back from Savannah......it's what I remember. And if you look at the pistures I took at ZCON, it's the people that I tried to capture......Vince, SteveJ, Will, Eiji, Vince etc. etc. etc.. is what I tried to capture. And yes after I lost to your awesome Z, and finished crying (cause there is no one's butt I wanted to kick more than yours), I came to the realization that the real trophy was the fantastic people I had met. If you've never attended a ZCON, you really need to make an effort to go. Just don't worry about the damned trophy.....because you know that your car is the best of show in your mind, and that's all that really counts!
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    http://www.flickr.com/photos/1404980...7600346077563/
    ______________________________________________
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/1404980...7603350695459/

    70, 71, 2 72's, and a 73 240z....
    90 300zx and a 1996 Acura NSX.....but who's counting?

  46. #46
    Newbie ninjazombiemaster's Avatar
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    Related...
    Any ZCONs or good shows in or around Salt Lake? I feel like I'm next to alone out here.
    Mines no show car, but I'd love to take it to a few.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diseazd View Post
    Jeff.....All joking aside.....the people are what makes the shows great. ZCON is an awesome collection of the very, very best of Z people, and no matter how you spin it, the prettiest car wins......."don't hate them cause they're beautiful"! The closest thing to what it looked like from the factory or the one with the best paint, interior and engine bays win (as it should be). You're car looked superb, but the thing I enjoyed most of the whole Savannah experience was the people. Meeting members of this forum and all the other folks that love their Z's so much is what it's really all about. "Mad Mike", Bob and Carol Sharp, Carl Beck, Jim Frederick and Sheila and yes, Jeff and Sue Mader.... all the other great Z people were what I brought back from Savannah......it's what I remember. And if you look at the pistures I took at ZCON, it's the people that I tried to capture......Vince, SteveJ, Will, Eiji, Vince etc. etc. etc.. is what I tried to capture. And yes after I lost to your awesome Z, and finished crying (cause there is no one's butt I wanted to kick more than yours), I came to the realization that the real trophy was the fantastic people I had met. If you've never attended a ZCON, you really need to make an effort to go. Just don't worry about the damned trophy.....because you know that your car is the best of show in your mind, and that's all that really counts!
    Guy - very well said....I was looking at it from an "awards" perspective.....you're right it's all about the people.

  48. #48
    1978 280Z (stock) TomoHawk's Avatar
    Member ID
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    May 2002
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    IMO (from experience with my car and some hand-built customs) you need to remember a few things about car shows, and trophies:

    #1: Show car = NEW car. If it's not chromed, shiny, or perfectly painted, forget winning a trophy.

    #2: Cool car NOT equals votes! Please refer to #1. I have 10x more visitors/chats than other cars, but the "show cars" always get the votes!

    #3: Trophies don't mean squat. I take the "plastic tube" out of my trophies (even the First place one) and bolt it back together. Only the headpiece and the base with the engraved label remain, and they are now 5 inches tall. You can fit them on your average bookshelf that way

    #4: Judges don't care how popular your car is:
    A judged show is close to rule#1 because (usually) people with money (checkbook cars) usually get all those glitzy chemicals o the car to make it shiny, and the judges go for the blingy stuff over the original interior, wheels and paint. That is, unless you are at a marque-specific show.

    that's why being in a club, going to shows as a club, and regional Z meets have the significant advantage of getting you the recognition you deserve for your efforts. Even the 350Z guys will appreciate your car and your efforts over the checkbook ones.

    To me, a real "trophy" is when people point to your car, or the engine, or center console, or whatever, and say, " look at what he did..." or something like that. Then you have people all over referring to you or your car, and making a special trip to check it out...
    Last edited by TomoHawk; 10-26-2012 at 08:45 AM.
    Drive Responsibly.
    enjoy classic Rock music.

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