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Thread: Another MSA door weatherstrip problem

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    Default Another MSA door weatherstrip problem

    Well, its my turn to get upset at these new weatherstrip replacements from MSA. The install went fine, everything fit perfectly. But when I go to shut the door, it has to be slammed in order for the lock to click. Even then, the actual rear of the door is pushed out a good .5 inch.

    I also notice that the rear of the door isn't even touching the weatherstrip. It seems that the front of the door (where the hinges are) is touching the weatherstripping and is soooo tight, that is isn't allowing the rear of the door to close correctly.

    I read on here from another thread "Door Slamming Issue Solved FINALLY" that I might need to shim the hinges. Will this resolve my problems?

    When the WS is off, the door has no problem closing at all, and lines up perfect with the gaps. As soo as the damn WS gets installed, it barely closes at all.

    I'll have some pictures tonight, but would really like your help!! Anyone?
    -1973 240Z
    First car over 20 yrs old ever owned.
    LOVING IT!!

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    Registered User LeonV's Avatar
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    Does anyone actually bother to adjust the door strikers when putting on new weatherstripping? It's kinda necessary...
    2/74 260Z

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    Adjusted mine on my 280 and still have the same issue as "New-to-240z" is and MSA's only option to me was to heat the weatherstripping while it's on the door to "shrink" it! Yea right! I have to slam my doors, push in on it from the outside so I'm not putting too much stress on the handle to open them, etc. Mine are nearly 2 years old! Im thinking of taking it to a body shop for help.

    New-to-240z, if you find a solution post it here. There seems to be a few of us with this same problem and if you have installed them (MSA's brand) then you have had the same issue and adjusting hinges and strikers doesn't work.
    Last edited by rcb280z; 03-18-2013 at 12:15 PM.

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    Registered User olzed's Avatar
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    I fitted door weatherstrip to my 240Z some 13 years ago, procured from Victoria British, now Black Dragon.
    It is the solid soft rubber type of seal.
    The doors were very tight to close, and still are to some degree, although they have eased over the years, and are now OK for me.
    I thought at the time, that was how they were supposed to be.lol
    Am i correct in thinking the 260Z was factory fitted with different weatherstrip to overcome this problem? The type with a hole rather than being the solid squishy rubber as the 240Z.
    Last edited by olzed; 03-18-2013 at 12:16 PM.

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    Jim Arnett jfa.series1's Avatar
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    The issues with the PRP door weatherstrips is only one of the most well-documented topics on the forum. Remember - the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. Switch to Nissan OE, Vintage Rubber, or possibly Kia Sportage.

    Jim Arnett
    HLS30-15320 12/1970, original owner
    L24-020208 (original)
    IZCC Original Owner Registry #53

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    Default try adjusting the hinges

    Do you have a large gap between the door edge and the quarter panel?

    If you are too close up front why not adjust the door back towards the quarter panel, away from the pillar.

    The door pillars on zcars are not as solid as you think. I've noticed that when I jack up mine using the factory jack on the jacking point under the front fender, the door gap changes a little.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeonV View Post
    Does anyone actually bother to adjust the door strikers when putting on new weatherstripping? It's kinda necessary...
    @LeonV : I will look into that when I get home, but the rear of the door isn't even coming in to contact with the weathstripping.
    -1973 240Z
    First car over 20 yrs old ever owned.
    LOVING IT!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by hr369 View Post
    Do you have a large gap between the door edge and the quarter panel?

    If you are too close up front why not adjust the door back towards the quarter panel, away from the pillar.

    The door pillars on zcars are not as solid as you think. I've noticed that when I jack up mine using the factory jack on the jacking point under the front fender, the door gap changes a little.
    I that is what I was thinking of doing. I was actually thinking of adding some 'shims' on the hinges to bring the door out a little to allow the back to pull in further before the front of teh door starts touching the WS.

    If anyone is out here in CA (Mission Viejo / Orange ) I would love to troubleshoot!
    -1973 240Z
    First car over 20 yrs old ever owned.
    LOVING IT!!

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    Registered User psdenno's Avatar
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    Prior to adjusting the latch or shimming the hinges, I'd suggest parking the Z in a sunny spot for a few days with the doors closed and let the seals compress naturally. This seems to be a very common occurrence, my '71 did the same thing with new seals, a day in the summer sun fixed the issue.

    Messing with latch alignment and hinge shims seems like it opens the door, so to speak, for other problems as the new seals settle in.
    Dennis
    1971 240Z - Original Owner
    2010 Infiniti G37 Convertible

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    Go Fast, Don't Crash 280~Master's Avatar
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    I used the Kia Sportage and have no problems at all. Just adjusted the strikers and everything closes great. Seals like a champ and I would recommend that mod for any Z not trying to be original 100%.
    John Thomas Bertrand
    Model: HLS30 STD CPE 2DR
    Color: 305 LIGHT BLUE
    Serial: HLS30-298085
    Engine: L28-081399
    Port of Entry: 34 JACKSONVILLE
    Method of Transport: TRUCK
    Dealer to whom delivered:
    Brown Datsun INC
    213 E Liberty ST
    Lyons, GA 30436


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    Registered User Lazeum's Avatar
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    I've removed my MSA kit as well after I've tried everything to make them work. I had to slam the door to close it. It was painful & frustrating. I was almost anxious to open the doors since I did not know if something would fail while closing them.

    So I went to the junk yard, look for cars with bigger doors than the Z & with maximun one 90° bend. I ended up finding a Renault Twingo here in France that was quite a match. What I'm saying is Kia sportage works but I'm sure, they're plenty other options to investigate.
    Mine was straight with no bend so I cut the gasket with 45° angle. Junction is made at the top of the door where there's a 90° to fill.

    Install is cleaner since it is clamped instead of being glued, extruded hollow shape is also much softer to compress. Nobody will notice the difference between stock and new gasket. Actually it looks better and it is 100% sealed.

    here's the difference.

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    Matt - 72' 240z

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    Quote Originally Posted by New-to-240z View Post
    I that is what I was thinking of doing. I was actually thinking of adding some 'shims' on the hinges to bring the door out a little to allow the back to pull in further before the front of teh door starts touching the WS.

    If anyone is out here in CA (Mission Viejo / Orange ) I would love to troubleshoot!
    I would not recommend shimming the door away from the pillar. The top of the door frame might not seal well and
    your door might stick out above the fender.

    First...remove the door striker. That takes the striker out of the alignment equation.
    take a black magic marker and trace the outline of the hinge alignment so that you can return to this
    alignment if everything you try is worse. Loosen the bottom hinge bolts on the pillar just a little bit. You don't want the door hinge so loose its sagging and you need to support the door to hold it up.

    Pull up on the bottom of the door. it moved a bit?
    tighten down the bolts. Now loosen the top hinge bolts and push down on the top of the door. did it move? Now check your fit.

    keep doing this until the door moves back enough to not bind

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    Quote Originally Posted by hr369 View Post
    I would not recommend shimming the door away from the pillar. The top of the door frame might not seal well and
    your door might stick out above the fender.

    First...remove the door striker. That takes the striker out of the alignment equation.
    take a black magic marker and trace the outline of the hinge alignment so that you can return to this
    alignment if everything you try is worse. Loosen the bottom hinge bolts on the pillar just a little bit. You don't want the door hinge so loose its sagging and you need to support the door to hold it up.

    Pull up on the bottom of the door. it moved a bit?
    tighten down the bolts. Now loosen the top hinge bolts and push down on the top of the door. did it move? Now check your fit.

    keep doing this until the door moves back enough to not bind
    I will try this tonight on one of the doors and will take pictures as well. Thank you for the detailed instructions!

    To everyone else, I am just trying to stick with the MSA WS because its already on, and I paid $$ for them. If, in the end, I can't get the damn doors to close correctly I'll return them to MSA (if they are willing to take them back) and buy me some Kia Sportage WS.
    -1973 240Z
    First car over 20 yrs old ever owned.
    LOVING IT!!

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    To everyone else, I am just trying to stick with the MSA WS because its already on, and I paid $$ for them. If, in the end, I can't get the damn doors to close correctly I'll return them to MSA (if they are willing to take them back) and buy me some Kia Sportage WS.

    They won't take it back. I'll be waiting for the results. I may be going the Kia sportage route myself. Getting tired of trying to find solutions to MSA's WS.

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    Sorry guys. Been crazy busy with work and the girl. I'm also trying to figure out what rims to finally throw on her. :-)

    I'll be trying out a few things this weekend. Also, prob talk to MSA about the issue and see what they have to say.
    -1973 240Z
    First car over 20 yrs old ever owned.
    LOVING IT!!

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    Registered User black gold man's Avatar
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    I think with heat and time the new rubber will compress.
    There is friction between the door and rubber and that will not let the rubber move so
    i think lube will help let the new rubber move and compress anybody try something like this.
    Wurth Rubber Care Gel Stick

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    I replaced my passenger door seal with an MSA seal last fall. I've gone through all of the above corrective actions except shimming. To date the required door closing effort has not yet eased to my satisfaction, though it has gotten better with age.

    Compared to the driver's door seal, the new seal is significantly harder. It appears to be binding at the hinge side of the door due to it resisting compression there. I can' really fault MSA as they are simply offering replacement parts from a third party manufacturer. It appears the replacement parts manufacturer is simply taking a standard rubber extrusion and making a 90 degree joint for the upper rear corner. I don't know whether a similar extrusion is available in a softer durometer, but it would certainly improve the product. Are you listening MSA?
    1971 240Z HLS30A 17574 L24-021025

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    Quote Originally Posted by jfa.series1 View Post
    The issues with the PRP door weatherstrips is only one of the most well-documented topics on the forum. Remember - the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. Switch to Nissan OE, Vintage Rubber, or possibly Kia Sportage.
    Vintage Rubber actually supplies PRP now on the door seals, but can't answer about possible remaining old stock left. The owner of Vintage told me this. Vintage changed the durameter of the rubber to make it softer. Still not perfect but much better.
    Bryan Pilati
    1971 Datsun 240Z (8/71; 920 paint)
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    For now I just push in slightly on the door and then open it. Seem's to work okay.

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    I had great luck with an early Cavilier's weatherstripping.

    Dave's 1972 Datsun 240z: Door weather seals

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    Dave
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    Avoid the gnashing of teeth and go KIA sportage. Done and Done.

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    Quote Originally Posted by New-to-240z View Post
    Well, its my turn to get upset at these new weatherstrip replacements from MSA. The install went fine, everything fit perfectly. But when I go to shut the door, it has to be slammed in order for the lock to click. Even then, the actual rear of the door is pushed out a good .5 inch.

    I also notice that the rear of the door isn't even touching the weatherstrip. It seems that the front of the door (where the hinges are) is touching the weatherstripping and is soooo tight, that is isn't allowing the rear of the door to close correctly.

    I read on here from another thread "Door Slamming Issue Solved FINALLY" that I might need to shim the hinges. Will this resolve my problems?

    When the WS is off, the door has no problem closing at all, and lines up perfect with the gaps. As soo as the damn WS gets installed, it barely closes at all.

    I'll have some pictures tonight, but would really like your help!! Anyone?
    Look up my post 39 in that topic. These are perfect and are not expensive, I got them at an Industrial rubber seal supplier. It just a clamp on seal, push in place.. only the ends need to be glued together.
    HLS30 32581, 5/71 Matching numbers

    Jay Leno : You know one week after the Americans have walked on the moon, the Japanese introduced this sports car, and…if you’re a car guy pretty equal. I mean walking on the moon was pretty good, but how many times you’d gonna walk on the moon? But here was an affordable sports car that had real performance and looked like it cost a lot more than it did.

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    You can shrink the seal using solvent, slam the door and leave the car in the sun.
    if a little knowledge can make you dangerous, I'm a little dangerous

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