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Thread: New Gland Nut Refuses To Screw On

  1. #1
    Registered User Hardway's Avatar
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    Default New Gland Nut Refuses To Screw On

    So I can see the light at the end of the tunner with my rear suspension rebuild. I am putting KYB's on and all 3 of my other struts went back together fine. However I cannot get the final glad nut on the right rear strut started on the tube. I put some anti seize on it to help give it some lube and hopefully make things easier should I need to take it off again. The threads on the inside of the tube appear to be okay and not cross threaded or anything. But when I think the nut is started and looks straight I start turning it with my wrench and it just pops back up out of the threads. Also, due to my many attempts from of the threads have become damaged on the glad nut so KYB is sending me a new one. If I just sit the gland nut on the strut tube it will rock back and forth if I push on it. This leads me to believe the tube may be slightly out of round and maybe causing my problems. I am finding a lot of things were torqued down on this car by the PO as I remember every glad nut on the car being a complete PITA to get off except 1. Any ideas on how to go about correcting this and getting the glad nut on? Should I try using my vise to squeeze the tube a little on the ends that appear too far out?
    08/1970 240z Series-1 #8011 - Silver, black int., 2.4L I-6, 5spd, 90% restored.
    06/1973 VW Karmann Ghia - Black convertible, 4spd, 1600cc air-cooled engine.
    11/2013 Scion FR-S - Silver, 6spd, a car with the soul of a Z for the modern times.
    Restoration thread of my old '72 240z -> http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/o...1972-240z.html

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    Registered User Hardway's Avatar
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    After some digging I found one of the gland nuts I took off the car. The threads were in perfect shape and I cleaned it up really good before attempting to use it. I took a big c-clamp and pressed the the ends that were pushed out back together. It acutally helps as the gland nut would now sit nicely on top of the tube and no rock back and forth. It would now screw in about 2 threads and then require my wrench to turn it. It got progressively harder to the point there were still 4-5 threads showing and I could not turn it anymore. Upon closer inspection it appears a PO cross threaded the tube at one point. The threads are flattened and it just does not appear its going to be usable. Once the the new gland nut arrived from KYB I am going to take the tube and gland nut to a machine shop to get their advice on it. In the mean time I may need to start shopping for a new strut tube/hub assembly. A disappointing end to an other wise productive day.
    08/1970 240z Series-1 #8011 - Silver, black int., 2.4L I-6, 5spd, 90% restored.
    06/1973 VW Karmann Ghia - Black convertible, 4spd, 1600cc air-cooled engine.
    11/2013 Scion FR-S - Silver, 6spd, a car with the soul of a Z for the modern times.
    Restoration thread of my old '72 240z -> http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/o...1972-240z.html

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    Registered User madkaw's Avatar
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    No way to clean out the threads with a dremel? I know it's a long shot, but maybe a little cut off wheel on a dremel to dig out the threads. Probably not enough room for a thread file
    Steve
    71 240z,bw-5sp 2.4-40 over,balanced,e-88,big valves,ported&polished, stage2,header, triple Mikuni's 40's
    3.90 Subaru STI LSD

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    Registered User Hardway's Avatar
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    Unfortunately not Madkaw. There is just not really any threads to clean up at this point. After looking at it for awhile I have come up with an idea to work around it. I am going to try it tomorrow evening after work and post my results.
    08/1970 240z Series-1 #8011 - Silver, black int., 2.4L I-6, 5spd, 90% restored.
    06/1973 VW Karmann Ghia - Black convertible, 4spd, 1600cc air-cooled engine.
    11/2013 Scion FR-S - Silver, 6spd, a car with the soul of a Z for the modern times.
    Restoration thread of my old '72 240z -> http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/o...1972-240z.html

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    Registered User Hardway's Avatar
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    I took a pick with a 90 degree tip on it and cleaned out the threads really good. When I ran the pick around it did not get caught on anything. I did not compare the threads or pay a lot of attention to them when I pulled everything apart. Now, all I seem to do is stare at them. Below are some pics of what they look like. Hopefully the new gland nut from KYB will come in tomorrow.
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    08/1970 240z Series-1 #8011 - Silver, black int., 2.4L I-6, 5spd, 90% restored.
    06/1973 VW Karmann Ghia - Black convertible, 4spd, 1600cc air-cooled engine.
    11/2013 Scion FR-S - Silver, 6spd, a car with the soul of a Z for the modern times.
    Restoration thread of my old '72 240z -> http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/o...1972-240z.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hardway View Post
    If I just sit the gland nut on the strut tube it will rock back and forth if I push on it. This leads me to believe the tube may be slightly out of round and maybe causing my problems. Should I try using my vise to squeeze the tube a little on the ends that appear too far out?
    I thought this was an idea worth following-up on. Squeeze the tube slightly in the vise and thread the nut in. If it goes in better then you'll know you're on the right track. You should be able to give it enough light squeezes and test fits to get it right then.
    1976 280Z, with some minor modifications

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    Registered User Hardway's Avatar
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    I used a decent sized c-clamp and it did help but its not perfect, at least not yet. I am sure the tube is tweaked since you can tell by all the jaw marks it was a complete pain to get off. Once the new glad nut arrives I am going to work on it some more.
    08/1970 240z Series-1 #8011 - Silver, black int., 2.4L I-6, 5spd, 90% restored.
    06/1973 VW Karmann Ghia - Black convertible, 4spd, 1600cc air-cooled engine.
    11/2013 Scion FR-S - Silver, 6spd, a car with the soul of a Z for the modern times.
    Restoration thread of my old '72 240z -> http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/o...1972-240z.html

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    Registered User cbuczesk's Avatar
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    Was the strut in the tube when you were tightening the nut? Any chance the nut was tight against the strut? Maybe there's something in the bottom of the tube that's raising the strut so the nut tightens sooner on that strut?

    Have you tired to thread the nut without having the strut installed? It might be easier with that out of the way.

    Another option is to have a shop chase the threads.

    Chuck
    East Coast Z Nationals held at the Carlisle Import & Kit Nationals - May 16-18, 2014 Carlisle, PA
    www.carlisleevents.com/events/import
    1969 240Z #390
    1971 Fairlady Z
    1971 240Z parts car
    1972 240Z ITS race car
    1972 240Z turbo
    1974 260Z turbo
    1975 280Z my first car
    1978 620 King Cab

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    Chuck,
    it seemed he was having an issue just starting the nut. Good point of trying it without the strut in.

    The threads look useable, but if the tube is out of round it will be tough. Have you used a big washer or something to drop into the tube so you can see if it is out of round and where it's out of round?
    You might need something better than a c-clamp to pinch it back in shape. You need something that clamps with a radius like curved-jawed- vise grips or something. My vise actually has a curved section under the jaws for gripping round objects.
    Steve
    71 240z,bw-5sp 2.4-40 over,balanced,e-88,big valves,ported&polished, stage2,header, triple Mikuni's 40's
    3.90 Subaru STI LSD

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    Maybe take some calipers and measure the tube to see if/where it's out of round? Can you press down on the nut while you thread it on?

    Chuck
    East Coast Z Nationals held at the Carlisle Import & Kit Nationals - May 16-18, 2014 Carlisle, PA
    www.carlisleevents.com/events/import
    1969 240Z #390
    1971 Fairlady Z
    1971 240Z parts car
    1972 240Z ITS race car
    1972 240Z turbo
    1974 260Z turbo
    1975 280Z my first car
    1978 620 King Cab

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    Boat Anchor Repairman Captain Obvious's Avatar
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    Have you tried one of the other gland nuts on this housing? I know they are supposed to be the same, but who knows... I've had situations where nuts and bolts that had been paired together for so long fit best with their original partner.

    About the out of round strut tube... How did you hold the strut assy when you loosened the gland nut to take it off? If you clamped the tube in a vise up near the nut, you may have ovalized the tube in the vise?

    And if it is oval, you could use your new hydraulic press to squeeze it round again. Would be a lot more controllable than a C-clamp.

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    The top of the strut tube is ovaled. Squeezing with a clamp of any kind probably won't help much. You have to work the oval out. Tale a 14mm x 60mm x 1.5P bolt, clamp the bolt head in some big vice grips, put on some thick leather gloves, lay the threads iof the bolt n the threads at the top of the strut tube, and hit the side of the bolt with a hammer. You want to push the bent in part of the strut tube out. Work the bolt around the strut tube and don't try to fix the bend with one smack. If you heat the top of the tube with a torch it makes this easier.

    And ALWAYS, ALWAYS, put a gland nut in the top of any strut tube. Keep your old ones for just that purpose.
    Last edited by John Coffey; 04-23-2013 at 08:08 AM.

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    John beat me to it.
    I think its ovaled as well. Probably from falling over. Maybe it fell hard on the ground during your spindle pin drama and you didnt notice at the time. It wouldnt take much.
    Do you have a set of vernier calpiers? You could then measure the inside diameter and see if it is oval. You could try screwing the old nut back in, lay it on a block of wood and tapping around the outside with a soft hammer, preferably widest part of the oval.
    Chas
    Chas
    5/77 280Z HLS30 403100 with some modifications
    Original colour: 305 Light Blue. The PO changed it to Red

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    Registered User Hardway's Avatar
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    Thank you for all the replies guys. When I took the strut out I used 2 pipe wrenches to get the gland nut off, one to hold the tube and the other to turn the gland nut. I have tried it many times with the strut out and insured the gland nut was not bottoming out on the strut when it was in. I still had the old gland nut, found it in my pile of parts. The nut/hat on top was pretty chewed up from getting it off but the threads were in good shape. I tried putting it in and it has the same problem. I am in agreement that the tube is oval'd ever so slightly. I also believe that even though the threads look good, something else is not right with them. The other 3 strut tubes and their gland nuts went on very easily and required just a little effort to snug them down. This one should follow suit but it is not. I could trial and error this until the cows come home but once the new gland nut arrives I am going to take it to a machine shop and have them figure it out. Their tools and expertise will help solve this and I do not want to permanently fubar the tube either as replacing it will not be cheap. I will keep everyone posted!
    08/1970 240z Series-1 #8011 - Silver, black int., 2.4L I-6, 5spd, 90% restored.
    06/1973 VW Karmann Ghia - Black convertible, 4spd, 1600cc air-cooled engine.
    11/2013 Scion FR-S - Silver, 6spd, a car with the soul of a Z for the modern times.
    Restoration thread of my old '72 240z -> http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/o...1972-240z.html

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    HLS30A 17574 djwarner's Avatar
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    If your strut tubes are perished, Look here:

    240z front strut housings - Parts for Sale - HybridZ
    1971 240Z HLS30A 17574 L24-021025

  16. #16
    Registered User Hardway's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by djwarner View Post
    If your strut tubes are perished, Look here:

    240z front strut housings - Parts for Sale - HybridZ
    The one that is giving me trouble is the passenger side rear. I have some leads on some others if I need one but hate to go that route as I have already replaced the bearings and seals in this one and there is no guarantee another won't be a bigger pain to get apart thus leaving me in the same position. I got the new gland nut in and plan to go to the machine shop this afternoon.
    08/1970 240z Series-1 #8011 - Silver, black int., 2.4L I-6, 5spd, 90% restored.
    06/1973 VW Karmann Ghia - Black convertible, 4spd, 1600cc air-cooled engine.
    11/2013 Scion FR-S - Silver, 6spd, a car with the soul of a Z for the modern times.
    Restoration thread of my old '72 240z -> http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/o...1972-240z.html

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    Registered User Hardway's Avatar
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    Good news, the gland nut is now on. Bad news, looks like it has to come off. Even with it all the way down the strut cartridge moves up and down in the tube about 1/8 of an inch. My other rear strut assembly went together just fine and I did not run in to this. I am thinking I need to put a large washer or something under the gland nut to hold the strut in place. On the bright side, the shop I took it to, Japanese Motorsports in Round Rock was great. One of the master techs, Scott used a large stocket for 4x4 hubs that fit the gland nut perfectly and used one of the old ones to reshape some of the threads that were damaged. He also used a small Snap On tool for correcting threads. Best of all, only cost me $20. I will post up my results on getting the strut tightened up in the tube.
    08/1970 240z Series-1 #8011 - Silver, black int., 2.4L I-6, 5spd, 90% restored.
    06/1973 VW Karmann Ghia - Black convertible, 4spd, 1600cc air-cooled engine.
    11/2013 Scion FR-S - Silver, 6spd, a car with the soul of a Z for the modern times.
    Restoration thread of my old '72 240z -> http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/o...1972-240z.html

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    That's great news! :-) See if the shop has some washers/spacers. Take your parts with you!

    Chuck
    East Coast Z Nationals held at the Carlisle Import & Kit Nationals - May 16-18, 2014 Carlisle, PA
    www.carlisleevents.com/events/import
    1969 240Z #390
    1971 Fairlady Z
    1971 240Z parts car
    1972 240Z ITS race car
    1972 240Z turbo
    1974 260Z turbo
    1975 280Z my first car
    1978 620 King Cab

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    Registered User Hardway's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cbuczesk View Post
    That's great news! :-) See if the shop has some washers/spacers. Take your parts with you!

    Chuck
    Thanks Chuck. I found some washers at Home Depot. The outside diameter is perfect but I need to drill the inside hole out some with my step bit. Hopefully it won't be too much drama and I have plans to tackle it tomorrow after work.
    08/1970 240z Series-1 #8011 - Silver, black int., 2.4L I-6, 5spd, 90% restored.
    06/1973 VW Karmann Ghia - Black convertible, 4spd, 1600cc air-cooled engine.
    11/2013 Scion FR-S - Silver, 6spd, a car with the soul of a Z for the modern times.
    Restoration thread of my old '72 240z -> http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/o...1972-240z.html

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    Boat Anchor Repairman Captain Obvious's Avatar
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    Good news on getting the nut installed, but bad news that it has to come off again!

    Do you still have threads showing? Is it a matter of the gland nut grinding to a stop on crappy threads before it hits the top of the insert, or has the nut run out of threads (either internal or external)?

    Haha! Does that even make sense?

    What I'm trying to find out is... Are washers the correct solution, or is the correct solution to do some more work on the threads?

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    Registered User Hardway's Avatar
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    Hey Captain, those are all good questions and I understand what you are asking. No threads are showing and based on my other strut intalls the gland nut is as far down as it will go as the curve along the top is sunk in a little past the top edge of the tube. The gland nut has a ring welded in to it and on the old one that ring looks thicker than the other new one I have. I have included a picture below, apologies for the crappy cell phone pic. Don't worry about the chew marks on the gland nut, those are from the tech and I using channel locks and the 4x4 hub to move it back and forth to clean up the threads. It is really not as bad as the pics make it look.
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    08/1970 240z Series-1 #8011 - Silver, black int., 2.4L I-6, 5spd, 90% restored.
    06/1973 VW Karmann Ghia - Black convertible, 4spd, 1600cc air-cooled engine.
    11/2013 Scion FR-S - Silver, 6spd, a car with the soul of a Z for the modern times.
    Restoration thread of my old '72 240z -> http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/o...1972-240z.html

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    Weird that one side tightens up and the other doesn't. Implies that the second strut tube is longer. Or the insert/shock/strut is shorter. Or the gland nut is thinner at the load-bearing surface. Does the gland nut fit tight around the top of the shock? It should. Maybe the beat up nut you're using is the wrong one anyway. There are several varieties of gland nut out there, designed to match the shock.
    zKars likes this.
    1976 280Z, with some minor modifications

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    Registered User beermanpete's Avatar
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    You can put the washer/spacer at the bottom of the strut tube and avoid the need to increase the ID. It should take up the space just the same at the top or bottom of the strut.

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    Registered User EuroDat's Avatar
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    Thats goodnews. Would be a PITA to start all over on a new strut, knowing what you went through with these (spindle pins).
    Chas
    Chas
    5/77 280Z HLS30 403100 with some modifications
    Original colour: 305 Light Blue. The PO changed it to Red

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    Boat Anchor Repairman Captain Obvious's Avatar
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    Hardway, Good pic. Certainly appears that the gland nut is down as far as it's gonna go and there isn't anything to be gained by working on the threads anymore. I'm with Zed Head in that it's weird that one side tightens up but the other won't.

    I'm guessing from the responses from others that this is a common occurrence that has been run into before? I personally haven't had this problem... When I've done inserts, thankfully they all tightened up like they should. It's not like I've done a lot of them though!

    My suspicion is that since Datsun never intended those tubes to house an insert in the first place, we should consider ourselves lucky that they work as well as they do and the occasional spacer here and there is a small nuisance?

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    Registered User Hardway's Avatar
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    Thank you for all the replies guys. Most KYB struts include a tall and a short gland nut. My Z had KYB struts on it and used the short gland nuts so I did the same when I installed the new ones. Good call Beermanpete on putting the washer in the bottom. One washer or at the most 2 would do it for sure.

    EuroDat... of the spindle pin saga. They still haunt me to this day.

    You make a great point Captain. We should be thankful the aftermarket came up with a product that is a good work around from the factory setup. Having to make up 1/8 of an inch on one strut is definitely not the end of the world in my book. This issue will come to pass and soon the Z will be back on the ground and ready for the road.
    08/1970 240z Series-1 #8011 - Silver, black int., 2.4L I-6, 5spd, 90% restored.
    06/1973 VW Karmann Ghia - Black convertible, 4spd, 1600cc air-cooled engine.
    11/2013 Scion FR-S - Silver, 6spd, a car with the soul of a Z for the modern times.
    Restoration thread of my old '72 240z -> http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/o...1972-240z.html

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    Registered User Hardway's Avatar
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    Good news! I dropped 2 washers in the bottom, put the strut in, screwed the gland nut on and it is done. It is showing about a half of a thread and snug. I could have probably gotten away with just one washer but I would have hated to use just one and then find that it was not enough once I put it back together. I cleaned up the tube and sanded down the jaw marks from the vise at the shop I took it to and now letting it dry with some fresh paint on it.

    Thank you everyone for all your replies and advice in helping me get through this!
    08/1970 240z Series-1 #8011 - Silver, black int., 2.4L I-6, 5spd, 90% restored.
    06/1973 VW Karmann Ghia - Black convertible, 4spd, 1600cc air-cooled engine.
    11/2013 Scion FR-S - Silver, 6spd, a car with the soul of a Z for the modern times.
    Restoration thread of my old '72 240z -> http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/o...1972-240z.html

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    That goodnews Hardway. Wont be long and you will driving around
    Chas
    Chas
    5/77 280Z HLS30 403100 with some modifications
    Original colour: 305 Light Blue. The PO changed it to Red

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    Sweet. I'll have to keep an eye out for that the next time I'm into struts.

    So, what's the "Hardway multiplier" for struts? Man, are you gonna be so done with suspension stuff after all this!!

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    Just a quick "thanks" to the contributors in this thread, it got me through a spacing issue with my new struts this weekend
    NOT Empty Anymore...

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