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Thread: SU Floats

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    No more body roll! SteveJ's Avatar
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    Default SU Floats

    73 240Z
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    Rust Free'ish zKars's Avatar
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    That don't look like no SU float I ever seen.....
    -----------------------------------------
    Jim
    73 240Z HLS30 149331
    69 510 PL510 77603

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    Registered User Stanley's Avatar
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    It's for an SU but not the ones on a 240Z. Good thing there was a photo. Might fit 510's.

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    Those are for the Roadsters.....I need one. I opened mine up and one looks like this pic, the other is all metal (brass I think). I think the all metal float is early roadster vintage and the pictured one is late model vintage.

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    These are the free floating floats for the 38mm carbs (2 bolt mount to the manifold)...... Those brass floats have a nasty habit of developing tiny hair line cracks, taking on gas and sinking like a rock.....

    Still nothing available for Z car floats as far as we know.....
    Bruce Palmer
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    These are the free floating floats for the 38mm carbs (2 bolt mount to the manifold)...... Those brass floats have a nasty habit of developing tiny hair line cracks, taking on gas and sinking like a rock.....

    Still nothing available for Z car floats as far as we know.....
    Bruce Palmer
    Salem Or
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    No more body roll! SteveJ's Avatar
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    That's too bad. I was hoping they found some lying about. If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is too good to be true.
    73 240Z
    74 260Z

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    Registered User Stanley's Avatar
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    Can't believe nobody's making floats for the 240Z's. It's not that complicated - seems like the tool-up cost would be so low you could sell them for $5 each and still make a profit, $20 a pair would seem OK. I've seen some Chinese (I know) manufacturing company's sites that say something like "send us your CAD drawings, we'll send you a quote, 200 items minimum production..."

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    One of you guys need to jump on this...... Small two or three stage die set for the metal piece and mold or molds for casting the floats them selves. Anyone? ANYONE?

    We alone would probably buy a dozen or so a year.....

    We did identify the resin used for the injection molding process if that helps......
    Bruce Palmer
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    No more body roll! SteveJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Palmer View Post
    We did identify the resin used for the injection molding process if that helps......
    Only if you let us know what resin it was.
    73 240Z
    74 260Z

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    Bruce, what is it about the existing floats that make them need to be replaced? Aren't they solid material? It is something to do with the metal frame? Are the float bodies deteriorated? Can't imagine ways to help unless we know the details.

    If its the resin that needs replacing, I was thinking about other ways to replace just that part.

    Precisely weighted ping pong balls? Styrofoam? Just need something with the same density, yes?

    I'm flush with ideas once I get going!

    Click image for larger version. 

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    -----------------------------------------
    Jim
    73 240Z HLS30 149331
    69 510 PL510 77603

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    We see all kinds during tear down but primarily it's physical damage from errant tools splitting and gouging the foam. I'm also hearing that floats are being degraded by today's gas i.e. soaking it up and getting squishy. No one has sent their squishys in for us to look at so can't testify to that but we are still waiting to see some real cases of "come over here Vern, and look at this".......
    Bruce Palmer
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    Rust Free'ish zKars's Avatar
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    I taking quite an interest in SU's lately. The more I learn the more I like, and more I yearn to improve the breed. Let me play with float ideas and I'll let you know what I find out.

    Get my PM Bruce?
    -----------------------------------------
    Jim
    73 240Z HLS30 149331
    69 510 PL510 77603

    www.zKars.com
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    The polymer is called Nitrophyl...... Good luck and if captured behind enemy lines this agency will blah blah blah........
    Bruce Palmer
    Salem Or
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    Boat Anchor Repairman Captain Obvious's Avatar
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    "For over 40 years, Rogers Corporation has been the leader in the design and production of liquid level floats where resistance to gasoline, oil, and other hydrocarbons is essential. The key is in our NITROPHYL® NBR (Buna-N) Technology."

    Rogers Corporation NITROPHYL-Floats

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    So close....

    MossMotors.com - Restoration Parts And Accessories For British Cars

    Perhaps one could do a bit of cut/shape/glue of these to our old float armature? Its just a block of Nitrophyl, make it what you need to be.
    -----------------------------------------
    Jim
    73 240Z HLS30 149331
    69 510 PL510 77603

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  17. #17
    Rust Free'ish zKars's Avatar
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    Heck Summit racing has a wide variety of Holley Nitrophyl floats, again, an available source of raw materials.

    Haven't found anyone that sells Nitrophyl resin raw components to "cast your own"...
    -----------------------------------------
    Jim
    73 240Z HLS30 149331
    69 510 PL510 77603

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    Quote Originally Posted by zKars View Post
    Haven't found anyone that sells Nitrophyl resin raw components to "cast your own"...
    Nitrophyl is a trade name from Rogers corporation? The basic rubber is a closed cell NBR rubber (Technical name: Acrylonitrile Butadiene). It also goes under trade names as Nitrile & Buna-N, Nipol & Europrene.

    Rogers corp does not sell resins. We (where I work) have used them in Gent Belgium, but they require €1200 tooling costs and a minimum order of 250 pieces. That was a special rubber bellow for a high speed shear mixer.

    The vulcanising process for NBR if not easy for a hobby guru to try. Probably why no one making them...
    Refab from another larger float could be a possability though.

    Chas
    Chas
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    Original colour: 305 Light Blue. The PO changed it to Red

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    Rust Free'ish zKars's Avatar
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    Now that I know some more trade names for the stuff... Thanks Chas!

    how about this for stock?

    McMaster-Carr

    "This economical grade of Buna-N offers good resistance to oils and solvents but is not as weather resistant as other rubbers. Also known as nitrile, acrylonitrile butadiene, and NBR."
    Last edited by zKars; 06-18-2013 at 02:20 PM.
    -----------------------------------------
    Jim
    73 240Z HLS30 149331
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    I guess the next question, Jim, is "Can Buna-N be milled down to size from a bar?" Chas, do you have any idea?
    73 240Z
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    That stuff from McMaster would be about as hard as a shoe heel and difficult to machine, but you guys are missing the most important tricky part... It's solid and it won't float.

    The tricky part to the Nitrophyl is that it's a FOAMED Buna-N, not solid.

    According to Rogers, you can machine and glue Nitrophyl sections together to make a float, but it's not as simple as taking a solid hunk of typical Buna-n (like what McMaster offers) and trying to hog out a float.

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    Rust Free'ish zKars's Avatar
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    The road to success is full of detours. Some of the detours are paved in 75 durometer Buna-n.. Details details...
    -----------------------------------------
    Jim
    73 240Z HLS30 149331
    69 510 PL510 77603

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    Something semi critical to the process is the way those floats are cast they end up with a hard shell around the outside with foam inside.
    Bruce Palmer
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    Melts in you mouth, not in your hands?

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    Quote Originally Posted by zKars View Post
    The road to success is full of detours. Some of the detours are paved in 75 durometer Buna-n.
    Haha! Yes they are! It would sure be sturdy and fuel resistant!!

    As mentioned above, one of the things that makes the Nitrophyl work is the fact that if done correctly, it skins over on the outside to produce a protective and non absorptive shell.

    "NITROPHYL material is transformed from a solid material to a hard, cellular structure by a two-step molding process. The outside layers, which are in contact with the hot surfaces of the cavity, produce a hard, smooth outer surface. The inside acquires a closed-cell structure. This distinctly different shell or "skin" protects the cell structure and adds to the mechanical strength of the part. NITROPHYL floats are also abrasion-resistant and capable of reproducing cavity details with sharp resolution in a wide range of sizes."

    NITROPHYL Design Guide

    I'm no plastics guy and I don't know if Rogers Corp sells the Nitrophyl compound in a resinous form, but it does appear they currently hold the trademark on the Nitrophyl name. I didn't look deeply enough to determine if they want to make their money selling resin or selling floats, (or both). I also didn't dig to see if there were other "generic" compounds of foamed NBR available from other sources or if Rogers Corp had a stranglehold on the technology.

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    Wonder if a small captive screw or something could be added to the steel tang on the floats to allow adjustment. Even with a sight glass, it takes dexterity, patience and luck to get them adjusted right.

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    We always check the fuel level with a clear hose attached to a hollow screw that is screwed into the bowl drain spot. Then stand the hose up beside the bowl and turn the fuel pump on.

    As far as the floats go, they're, in lamen's terms, just like a foam rubber surround of a speaker. They're a block of airy foam that has a layer of rubber glaze coating them. What's the interest in these? I can have the tooling made here and start making them, just needa know what normal replacement cost is for them.

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    MSA lists part #11-2501 (float, 70-72) for $17, not available.

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    Really doesn't matter what floats are listed for price wise. If someone goes to the trouble of making them, then charging what it takes to stay on the black side of the line is in line.

    NISSAN has recently gone nuts with prices on fuel nozzles for example.....
    Bruce Palmer
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    Yeah I was mainly just wondering for labor cost.....my guys' time is worth alot more than my spare time, so if something is to be done and will sell alot for a good enough price, I'll put one of them on it.....if not alot will sell and price will be low, I'll tool around on it in my spare time.

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