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Thread: Looking to make a "square" L24 with LD28 crank...

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    Default Looking to make a "square" L24 with LD28 crank...

    Has anyone done this? And what con-rods will I need? The square bore/stroke is just something I want to do. I know there is no replacement for displacement. I know the L28 strokers are more popular.

    I have a numbers matching 1970 240z, and want to use the block/head that it came with. I, personally, like the thought of a "square" engine, and thusly plan on building this one accordingly.

    Any insight or advice would be appreciated. My goal is 240rwhp, not sure its it possible, but thats what I am shooting for.

    Plans include:
    L24 block with stock 83mm bore,
    Ported stock head with bigger valves (if possible),
    LD28 83mm stroke crankshaft (knife edged),
    11:1 compression ratio (91+ octane fuel only),
    Lightweight conrods (not sure of length),
    Lightweight dished pistons,
    New cam (not sure which),
    New valvetrain (lightweight, high ratio),
    Not sure of intake, 3x2 maybe, or ITB

    Might put a mild (75hp) shot of juice to it just for fun.

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    Sounds fun, but will only happen with GOBS of money and a professional builder like Rebello and you still won't see 240hp at the wheels. If you do- you will have very prestigious bragging rights. 240rwhp 240 would be a race motor.
    Now that I burst the bubble, shoot for 200rwhp and have some fun. I would think that 280 rods would be the trick with custom height pistons- and not dished pistons.
    How about introducing yourself and tell us about your engine building experience.
    It's obvious that you have some to learn about the L engine, and I'm not trying to be an a$$, just judging by your post.
    You might need to take your head to have it evaluated first before you make these plans. The early E-31 was prone to corrosion.
    Steve
    71 240z,bw-5sp 2.4-40 over,balanced,e-88,big valves,ported&polished, stage2,header, triple Mikuni's 40's
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    S2000 motor has 246hp
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    Ok, hello everyone. As my username may suggest, I am David Boren. I am 28 years old. My daily driver is a 2005 Cadillac V6 CTS. I live in Portland, Oregon.

    My fiance's grandpa has a 1970 Fairlady just sitting in his backyard. I want to turn it into a my weekend cruiser. Just something to take out and have some fun in the sun with. I will probably use it in local autocross events just to become a better driver. And a 240z will do A LOT better job zigging and zagging between the cones than my Cadillac luxury sedan.

    I have no engine building experience, and am planning on making the Fairlady my first build. I am not trying to break the bank on this, and that is why I want to stick with the stock block and head. I will get everything professionally checked and cleaned. And any porting/machining will be at a shop, not by me.

    The 240rwhp goal is simply based on the fact that the car is a 240z. If it isnt feasible, then I will take what I can get from a high-compression "square" L24. The LD28 crank will give the L24 a square bore/stroke (83mm x 83mm). And if the 280 rods will work, they are probably pretty easy to source as well. I want a lightweight/balanced rotating assembly, so the rods and pistons will probably be the largest expense of this build.

    Having the block decked or the head shaved to up compression shouldnt be that expensive. And I am not doing anything too radical to the head as far as porting. Mainly just port-matching everything, and having larger valves installed if they will fit.

    Any word on whether or not I can fit any larger valves into a E31? As I plan on having the block zero-decked to the top of the pistons, I also need to know if larger valves would hit my pistons, or if high-ratio rockers and a lumpy cam would cause interference between valves and pistons. That is actually why I originally mentioned dished pistons.

    Also, speaking of lumpy cams... is there a L-series cam that is more aggressive that would be easier or cheaper to source, or should I just go aftermarket?

    Thank you for your replies thus far.

    PS. There are LOTS of 240+hp engines out there. I am not interested in an engine swap at this point. I am enjoying the vanity of having a numbers matching car, and just want to play with what I have available. If I was going to swap in anything, it would be an all aluminum 5.7L LS1 stroked to 372" with a 3.9" crankshaft (making it square with the 3.9" bore).

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    I almost replied to this thread yesterday about the "square" concept, but decided to just leave you to your eccentricity. It's hard to tell if you're really trying to be sensible or just want to put an odd collection of parts together.

    Sticking with the original engine because it looks original, but modifying it so that it's not original doesn't seem to serve any purpose. The "square" bore-stroke ratio has no technical merits at all, it's just a weird number thing. Porting the stock head and installing bigger valves is what used to be done before the 280Z heads became available. And the most effective way to get more displacement is to get an L28. The money that you're proposing to spend on the LD28 "knife-edged" crank would be more useful elsewhere. Overall, once you do the math on collecting those parts, installing bigger valves, porting the head, buying custom pistons (I don't think that there's a stock set that will work), knife-edging the crank, etc. I think that your bank will be seriously damaged, if not broken. Do the math, then send the engine to Rebello and ask him to give you as much power as possible. You'll be many dollars ahead AND the engine will probably run well and not self-destruct, plus you'll have the Rebello "cool" factor on your numbers-matching engine.

    As far as learning goes, you're at about 1980, I think,with the big-valve, high compression stroker engine. No offense, you seem to be learning, probably from various old internet postings, but what you've proposed won't be cheap, probably won't run as designed unless you use expensive race gas, could very well blow up quickly, and won't be tunable by the average mechanic.

    Full disclosure - I'm only speaking from what little I've learned over the past few years. Not an engine builder, so I could be way off base.
    1976 280Z, with some minor modifications

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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidBoren View Post
    My fiance's grandpa has a 1970 Fairlady just sitting in his backyard. I want to turn it into a my weekend cruiser. Just something to take out and have some fun in the sun with. I will probably use it in local autocross events just to become a better driver. And a 240z will do A LOT better job zigging and zagging between the cones than my Cadillac luxury sedan.

    I have no engine building experience, and am planning on making the Fairlady my first build. I am not trying to break the bank on this, and that is why I want to stick with the stock block and head. I will get everything professionally checked and cleaned. And any porting/machining will be at a shop, not by me.

    The 240rwhp goal is simply based on the fact that the car is a 240z. If it isnt feasible, then I will take what I can get from a high-compression "square" L24.
    Bold emphasis is mine.

    1970 Fairladies had either L20A engines or S20 twin cam engines. The L24 wasn't used in the Japanese market Fairladies until late 1971 ( in the Fairlady 240Z, Fairlady 240Z-L and Fairlady 240ZG ), so if it's a 1970 Fairlady it won't have an L24 engine, and it's not a '240Z'.

    If the car in question does have an L24, then it's a custom installation and the car doesn't have its "stock block and head" anymore....

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    David,
    Not trying to cut you down here, just putting your feet down on firma ground. They would cut you up and feed you to the lions over at Hybridz with your nubience. You will find a friendly group here that loves modified L motors. You will be suprised how much fun a well thought out performance L24 can be---- even at 160HP. Do some searching here and you won't see any square bore projects, but some good stuff.
    good luck
    Blue and Diseazd like this.
    Steve
    71 240z,bw-5sp 2.4-40 over,balanced,e-88,big valves,ported&polished, stage2,header, triple Mikuni's 40's
    3.90 Subaru STI LSD

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    I will have to take a closer look at the car, but gramps said it was a 1969 240z. I didnt think they came stateside until 1970, so I assumed he was just a year off. To be honest, and to advertise my ignorance, I have just assumed Fairlady was a monicker associated with the 240z. I dont know if its a separate car. And if it is, I stand corrected.

    I appreciate the advice and criticism. I do not know much about these cars. It may not have an L24 in it. All I know is that I do not have the money to do an engine swap, so I want to have some fun with the engine that is in there.

    As far as making it square, it is just my preference. To each their own. Nobody thinks twice about stroking an engine, and that is all I was proposing with adding an LD28 crank to a L24. It just happens to make the bore and stroke match. And I just happen to like that. The 2jz is a square bore/stroke powerplant, and people do amazing things with that engine.

    I will get the VIN this weekend, and get back to you with some better details. Thank you for setting me straight.

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    Race 2.4Ls that ran in GT2 back in the day made over 360 horsepower. Spin fast and you can make power even without a lot of displacement.

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    The VIN is a great place to start. If it is a 1969 car it is likely a low number car and would deserve special consideration if its not a rust bucket. A stroker project is not a cheap endeavor, even in the most econo minded setups that I have seen. If you could afford Rebello that would be a sure fire way to end up with good useable power and reliability. Building your own motor takes some attention to detail and what works on a 2jz does not necessarily translate to a 40 year old Nissan motor. 2jz is a dual cam cross breathing engine; a totally different animal than a Nissan L6 type engine. That is why many of the people on Hybrid Z do the swaps they do is because many times it is easier, cheaper or both to just swap or swap and turbo for significant gains. The VIN is the right place to start and some pictures would be good, especially the rust prone areas: battery tray, rocker panels, rear wheel arches, floor boards, dog legs...
    Charles

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    I will check it for rust when I go over there this weekend to check the VIN.

    I am pretty sure it has an L24, as that is what the American import 240's had in 1969 and 1970.

    This will be my first manual transmission vehicle, so I am mainly just going to play with it at autocross events to become a better driver.

    That being I am going to focus largely on upgrading the transmission and differential first, because it is going to take a beating with me pretty much learning how to drive a stick. Suspension and brakes will be a close second because autocross can be hard on these areas.

    Once I get the power it already has available firmly and efficiently hitting the ground, I will worry about upgrading the engine. Thank you all for your input, both negative and positive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidBoren View Post
    My fiance's grandpa has a 1970 Fairlady just sitting in his backyard. I want to turn it into a my weekend cruiser.
    I probably came across as negative in my post. Just trying to save you some money. The two sentences above shout "thousands of dollars" just to get to the end of the second sentence. Seriously, all of the hydraulics are probably bad, there's probably body/frame rust, the engine may need one or two thousand if you rebuild it along with the carburetors, and on and on. A broken stud or bolt here, a cracked thermostat housing there, the nickels and dimes just start rolling. Wait until you have the car in your possession and know what you have. If it's a very early Z you might decide to just restore it, or pull the numbers-matching motor (if it is) for safe keeping.
    1976 280Z, with some minor modifications

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    I second that. It may be a truly low number car and I am not sure beating it up with cones would be my first choice...condition translates not only into money but time, if you are going to do the work yourself. I am 5 years into one of my restorations currently...
    Charles

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    Before you get ahead of yourself David you might look into the availability of the LD V07 crank and its current going rate to obtain. They can be hard to locate and once located go for around $700. If this car is a low number rust free clean car you might consider allowing it to remain stock and original...they are only original once. Surviver class cars are the rage right now and do very well in price and value.

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    Ok, it is a HLS30 8###, placing it as a 1970, Series 1 car. It has the Z-in-the-circle emblem on the sides (which I thought was a Series 2 thing), and the louvers on the back window. My phone is about as old as this car, so I cannot upload the pictures. No noticeable rust around the fenders, cannot get under it to check the frame-rails.

    Overall, the car is surprisingly rust-free in appearance. This is promising, but I am not holding my breath. I fully understand that getting a 40+ year old car to working order is going to cost quite a bit. That is why I do not want to spend an obnoxious amount on the engine.

    I also have looked for the V07/LD28 crank, and have seen how rare it is. The cheapest one I have found was $500. So I do appreciate how much this is going to cost, regardless of which route I choose to take.

    Either way, bushings need to be replaced, and will be replaced with polyurethane parts. Shocks and springs needs to be replaced, so high-rebound shocks and stiffer rate lowering springs will be installed. The parts that need to be replaced are going to be upgraded with performance being the goal. Getting the engine checked and cleaned, as well as having any porting and machining done will be done regardless of whether or not I end up stroking it square.

    The valve job, port-matching, new cam, new intake, new exhaust all have to happen, even if I get to re-use the numbers matching block/head.
    Last edited by DavidBoren; 10-07-2013 at 06:41 PM.

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    The best advice I can give for the engine is come up with a very specific plan and the knowledgable 'staff' here at Classic can help guide you along the way. Saying that you are going with 'all new' intake doesn't make sense. If you are staying with SU's, good choice for now by the way, then really nothing needs to be done. The head work is where all the HP is at. That doesn't mean replacing with all new parts either. Bigger valves are great and using used ones is cheap and OEM stuff is excellent. You don't need a new cam when regrinds are cheap and it keeps the proper metallurgy of OEM steel. Use a machinist that has dealt with these motors before. The proper machining and proper 'set-up' of these heads is imperative.
    The bottom ends are about bullet proof, so don't get crazy there.
    Doing your due diligence with searching will save you big$$ I AM speaking from experience. I have made dumb mistakes from not doing my homework.
    Steve
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    When I first heard you saying you wanted to hack up a Series I car, I was aghast. They were top of the list in an Sept 2013 CLASSIC MOTORSPORTS article titled "Golden Opportunities - 18 Classic Cars you should buy RIGHT NOW!"

    May not be the highest and best use of a rare and getting rarer every day vehicle. But as I thought about it, hacking it up will only make mine rarer, so go ahead, have fun.
    1971 240Z HLS30A 17574 L24-021025

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    As Patcon said, Robello might be the way to go if you want to keep the stock engine, assuming that it actually is an L24. Check out his site under the 2.7L Purist Z Car: Complete Engine Builds

    He claims 240HP with SU Carbs.

    Marty

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    1970 and 1971 S30s are not particularly rare. On the local craigslist there are 8 for sale right now.

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    I think some of that is regional. CA,OR & WA tend to have a good number of these cars just from reading the "I spy" thread. Here in the deep south I very rarely see them on the road and the projects tend to be very rusty. I suspect the Northeast and the Midwest is even worse...
    Charles

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    Alright, I just shot Rebello an email. I will let you know what he says in return. Thank you all for your input and advice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by John Coffey View Post
    1970 and 1971 S30s are not particularly rare. On the local craigslist there are 8 for sale right now.
    Wow John, tried using Search Tempest for Craigslist entries within 500 miles of La Habra for 1970 Datsun 240z. It only came up with two hits on Craigslist, a Chevy powered Z in Yuma, and one in Fresno that was deleted by the author.

    Of course I omitted posting for fenders, etc. What did I do wrong?
    Montezuma likes this.
    1971 240Z HLS30A 17574 L24-021025

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    The "Purist" build is $5000. Plus carbs (I asked for the triple-double carbs) and dyno, Dave says its closer to $7500. $7500 is way out of my price range.

    For that kind of cash, I can forget the vanity of having a numbers matching car, grab a 2jz-gte with the transmission for $3000, sell the twin turbos, buy an ITB intake and six throttle bodies, and still afford any fab work required for the swap.

    $7500 to stroke an L24 using an OEM 280z crank and OEM 240z rods and a little port work on the head? Nope. Not me. I may be inexperienced, ignorant, naive, but I am not freaking stupid.

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    I know that experienced engine builders carry a bit of weight, but $5000 for rebuilding an L-series engine with OEM L-series parts, and some porting is ridiculous. I cannot get over that.

    I could put an LS1 in it for less than the cost of having Rebello rebuild the L24. I really like the idea of keeping it numbers matching, but screw the "Purist" build.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidBoren View Post

    Plans include:
    L24 block with stock 83mm bore,
    Ported stock head with bigger valves (if possible),
    LD28 83mm stroke crankshaft (knife edged),
    11:1 compression ratio (91+ octane fuel only),
    Lightweight conrods (not sure of length),
    Lightweight dished pistons,
    New cam (not sure which),
    New valvetrain (lightweight, high ratio),
    Not sure of intake, 3x2 maybe, or ITB

    Might put a mild (75hp) shot of juice to it just for fun.
    Curious what your estimates were for this plan. Parts alone, plus machine work, plus assembly, plus tuning. Seriously, it would be a good exercise and give you a much better idea of how much you'll need to spend.

    I made a comment earlier about nickels and dimes. They really do add up, many people recommend doubling an initial build cost estimate,then hoping nothing goes wrong just to hit the doubled number.

    Anyway, since you're at the start, it would be a lesson for anyone following if you keep track of and report the costs you incur with whatever you decide.
    1976 280Z, with some minor modifications

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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidBoren View Post
    I know that experienced engine builders carry a bit of weight, but $5000 for rebuilding an L-series engine with OEM L-series parts, and some porting is ridiculous. I cannot get over that.

    I could put an LS1 in it for less than the cost of having Rebello rebuild the L24. I really like the idea of keeping it numbers matching, but screw the "Purist" build.
    get over it David. You are portraying rebello as a rip-off, and the business is well respected in the Z community. I really don't think you understand what goes into this kind of work-it's a little more then a 'mild port job.' 100HP per liter-think about it.
    I guarantee you will have a hard time doing a 2JZ for less. Swapping motors is not easy and the Rebello just drops in place. If you value your time, then the 2JZ will cost way more. It will cost as much anyway you look at it.
    What happened to keeping the stock numbered engine?
    Steve
    71 240z,bw-5sp 2.4-40 over,balanced,e-88,big valves,ported&polished, stage2,header, triple Mikuni's 40's
    3.90 Subaru STI LSD

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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidBoren View Post
    The "Purist" build is $5000. Plus carbs (I asked for the triple-double carbs) and dyno, Dave says its closer to $7500. $7500 is way out of my price range.

    For that kind of cash, I can forget the vanity of having a numbers matching car, grab a 2jz-gte with the transmission for $3000, sell the twin turbos, buy an ITB intake and six throttle bodies, and still afford any fab work required for the swap.

    $7500 to stroke an L24 using an OEM 280z crank and OEM 240z rods and a little port work on the head? Nope. Not me. I may be inexperienced, ignorant, naive, but I am not freaking stupid.
    Quote Originally Posted by DavidBoren View Post
    I know that experienced engine builders carry a bit of weight, but $5000 for rebuilding an L-series engine with OEM L-series parts, and some porting is ridiculous. I cannot get over that.
    Wow...

    I've tried hard to refrain from commenting but this is getting ridiculous. Taunting Rebello combined with the misguided thought of a "square" L24 is beyond funny. Sell your Z and buy a Supra or a Corvette, that's the best advice I can give you.

    I recently rebuilt an L28. I did all my own work, besides machining and mounting the exhaust. I kept a spreadsheet of costs. Everything included (besides my labor), the build cost me roughly $5,500 and that's with having a good amount of parts on hand that I didn't have to buy. In this cost, I'm including everything engine related, i.e. fuel system, cooling, induction, exhaust, etc. I put hundreds of hours of my own labor into the build, which are unaccounted for. I visited Rebello's shop to help get my head setup, and I can say without a doubt that they ARE NOT rip-off artists. In fact, after having done this build, I'd love to just pay Rebello to build my next engine (if I didn't enjoy engine building so much).

    You want a cheap rebuild? Go buy one of those $1,500 Datsun Parts LLC engines and see what you get. Quit dreaming and take a dose of reality. Rebello knows what they're doing and charge a very fair price for it.

    Jeebus, the ignorance of the OP is ASTOUNDING.

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidBoren View Post
    I could put an LS1 in it for less than the cost of having Rebello rebuild the L24. I really like the idea of keeping it numbers matching, but screw the "Purist" build.
    Go for it. Let us know how it goes. Will you be keeping track of your labor cost for the swap?
    Last edited by LeonV; 10-11-2013 at 05:34 PM.
    2/74 260Z

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    I agree with Leon. The last engine I built was a 350 chevy which is fairly cheap to rebuild and I had $3500 or so in just the long block, no injection , exhaust or ignition. I did all the assembly work, motor removal and install.

    The guys at Rebello build a good motor and they can back it up with numbers, experience and history. If you are good at what you do you aught to be able to charge a reasonable price for head work, machine work , parts selection, precleaning, assembly, start up, break in, crating it up and shipping it to your door ready to go into your car. There is no free lunch...

    As for the swap it seems cheap up front but take Zed Heads advice and sit down and add up the nickels and dimes. That's where the swap gets expensive. New fuel lines, line adaptors, electric fuel pump, pressure regulator, fabbing mounts, cooling, exhaust work, etc. It adds up quick. $50 here $75 there before long you have spent some real money. This is not a critique or your notion to make a hybrid Z. Most guys do it for shear power but I doubt many do it because its dramatically cheaper. As a matter of fact many of the really cools hybrid swaps I have seen cost a lot more than 7k plus there are tuning headaches, unique problems to your swap etc. My 2 cents...

    Leon the paragraphs are for you...

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    Hi David,

    Welcome to the club.

    I'm not going to carry on about costs. Its been handled already by other posters and with good reason.

    You can find a good design utility to help find interchangeable parts in the L series engines here: Engine Design Utility

    Good luck and above all have fun

    Chas
    Chas
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    Original colour: 305 Light Blue. The PO changed it to Red

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    Rediculous may have been a bit out of line. I appologize to Dave, if he frequents these pages.

    I have priced rebuild kits and other various parts for a mild performance rebuild and considered the machining and assembly costs. And I still find the price steep. I do understand that there are a lot of things that can cost a lot of money that may come up unexpected. I know that little costs add up fast.

    I am just going to have what is in there checked and cleaned, ported, valve job, balanced, zero-decked, etc etc. Re-use everything that can be re-used. Pick up a quality bolt kit and gasket set. I will simply fix what is there, but I will fix it right.

    I am not going to pay anyone $5,000 to rebuild that motor. Im just not.

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    Hi David,

    You have given conflicting data regarding the vin and circular Z emblem on the sail. There is a data plate in the rear of the driver's door well that gives the month and year of manufacture as well as the vin number. If it was made Jan 71 or before, it is a Series I.

    If it is a matching numbers Series I car, I would suggest you find another L6 engine to modify and store the original engine intact. Used engines can be picked up reasonable, a matching number engine is irreplaceable. Whatever you pay for the second motor will be returned several times over when you eventually sell the car.

    If the door data plate indicates the car is a Series II, have fun and do whatever you like.

    I understand the car was given to you so your only sense of value is how it can fulfill you dreams. It will have a value after your dreams are realized though. I am only suggesting preserving value if only to help fund your next dream.
    1971 240Z HLS30A 17574 L24-021025

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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidBoren View Post

    checked and cleaned,
    ported,
    valve job,
    balanced,
    zero-decked,
    etc etc.
    Pick up a quality bolt kit and gasket set.

    The major disconnect is here: "goal is 240rwhp", from your first post. Don't forget drive line power losses. Some say 15%, some say 20. 10% would be conservative, so you'll need ~267 HP at the crankshaft. 95 HP/liter, 1.6 HP/cubic inch. You'll need a lot of etc. to get there.

    People are just trying to add more reality to your project. Still, for those that follow, keep track of your costs and report back. You'll probably be in the thousands just to get back to like-new with stock power levels, just on the engine, let alone the rest of the car.

    I'm seriously interested in where you end up. The advantage of Rebello is that his engines are a package deal and the shop is set up to for the work. You'll spend a lot of time educating shops on how to do the work. And there will probably be mistakes made, that add cost.
    Last edited by Zed Head; 10-17-2013 at 09:48 AM.
    1976 280Z, with some minor modifications

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zed Head View Post
    The major disconnect is here: "goal is 240rwhp", from your first post. Don't forget drive line power losses. Some say 15%, some say 20. 10% would be conservative, so you'll need ~267 HP at the crankshaft. 95 HP/liter, 1.6 HP/cubic inch. You'll need a lot of etc. to get there.

    People are just trying to add more reality to your project. Still, for those that follow, keep track of your costs and report back. You'll probably be in the thousands just to get back to like-new with stock power levels, just on the engine, let alone the rest of the car.

    I'm seriously interested in where you end up. The advantage of Rebello is that his engines are a package deal and the shop is set up to for the work. You'll spend a lot of time educating shops on how to do the work. And there will probably be mistakes made, that add cost.
    That's exactly right.

    Keep track of your costs and you'll see what it takes to even do a "refresh" on an engine. If you want to compare your costs to Rebello's, also track your labor hours. BTW, I guarantee that a simple rebuild will get you nowhere near the 240 WHEEL horsepower you quoted. Frankly, this whole thread is completely ridiculous. You come in here, putting some random, dreamed-up combo of parts together to make some magical "square" engine, "but the 2JZ is square, that means I'll make so much power". I'm paraphrasing here.

    You explicitly claim that you lack any engine building experience but then lambast, and continue to do so, a company whose bread-and-butter is building these engines to a high standard. This thread would've been in the shed at HybridZ long ago...

    "I am not going to pay anyone $5,000 to rebuild that motor. Im just not."

    Your call. Doesn't mean that the $5,000 isn't worth it. Maybe once you've actually built an engine and tracked what you've spent (time and money), you'll realize that you didn't know what the hell you were talking about.
    2/74 260Z

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    Thank you all, once again, for the input. Believe me, I get it. I wont see 240rwhp. I already stated it was just a figure I manifested from the model number of the car. I thought it would be cool to have a 240hp 240z. Already stated I probably will not be able to achieve it.

    The square bore and stroke is simply something I wanted to try if it was possible. I know a lot of people swap L-engine parts and I saw that there was an L-engine with the same stroke as the L24 bore... thought it was worth asking about.

    I also already said that I know experience comes with its price. I know that having a specialist build my engine will probably produce a better engine than having a no-name shop rebuild it. I get it. I promise.

    Why people insist on replying to this topic without any useful information pretaining to the actual topic, I dont know. I dont know a lot of things. I do not know how much it costs to rebuild a motor. I do not know how to rebuild the engine myself. I do not know to swap in a different engine. Last I checked, I thought that was the purpose of asking questions. Of course I want an unreachable horsepower figure. What the hell is the point of dreaming if you arent going to dream big?

    I am speaking out my ass. I admitted my ignorance right off the bat. Thank you to the three, or so, of you that actually had something useful to say. The rest of you retards that jumped on the opportunity just to starting bashing my self-admitted ignorance should take a long walk off a short dock.

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    Edited - Never mind - I do need to say though, that using the word "retard" in today's world is a sign of true ignorance. David needs to become more aware of the world around him, in general.
    Last edited by Zed Head; 11-11-2013 at 09:02 PM.
    1976 280Z, with some minor modifications

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    Wow John, tried using Search Tempest for Craigslist entries within 500 miles of La Habra for 1970 Datsun 240z. It only came up with two hits on Craigslist, a Chevy powered Z in Yuma, and one in Fresno that was deleted by the author.

    Of course I omitted posting for fenders, etc. What did I do wrong?
    Don't know. I just did a search and came up with six 1970/71 240Zs, one of which is a shell. Maybe your search tool misses some.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidBoren View Post
    I am speaking out my ass. I admitted my ignorance right off the bat. Thank you to the three, or so, of you that actually had something useful to say. The rest of you retards that jumped on the opportunity just to starting bashing my self-admitted ignorance should take a long walk off a short dock.
    Hi David,

    I read this a couple of hours ago and its been bugging me ever since. My conscience tells me better, but I have to give my 2cents. I find it harsh and not knowing the situation of others could be offensive.

    You will always get advice from different view pounts. Thats how a community forum works and the comments Ive seen in this thread are not so roughand all trying to get their point of view across. Its up to you to sort through the advice your given and make an educated decision.

    For an eye opener you should copy your first couple of posts and post them in Hybridz. It would Literally be the roasting of DavidBoren.

    With this post I will submit myself to the category "not the three or so". So be it.

    Cheers chas
    Last edited by EuroDat; 11-12-2013 at 10:29 AM.
    Chas
    5/77 280Z HLS30 403100 with some modifications
    Original colour: 305 Light Blue. The PO changed it to Red

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    Default B-b-b--but....

    Quote Originally Posted by Zed Head View Post
    Edited - Never mind - I do need to say though, that using the word "retard" in today's world is a sign of true ignorance. David needs to become more aware of the world around him, in general.
    ...How do I "retard" my timing in today's world then?

    BTW I have a daughter who is special needs...

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    I've read somewhere, maybe Racer Brown's book but don't remember for sure, about the benefits of a "square" engine. IIRC the concept involves having a bore that is at least equal to the stroke. By that criteria, a stock 240 is already "square".

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    If $5000 is you budget, and you want a daily driver with some autocross potential, it might be possible. If compression and oil pressure are ok you could do cam and a valve job, total or partial refresh of the SU's, 2.25" exhaust and turbo muffler, lower it a little and refresh the suspension, new sticky tires and brakes. And lots of tuning, but that's more time than money. You'd cream a stock Z and a lot of other cars at the light and plenty power for twisty roads.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dhp123166 View Post
    ...How do I "retard" my timing in today's world then?
    Now there's some humor. If we were talking about timing, it's just an edgy joke. DB had ill-intent though. He could have made his point without that final paragraph. It's one of those things that you write, then think better of before posting, if you put the time in to thinking. DB's just not thinking things through very well. Now he's always going to be "that guy".
    1976 280Z, with some minor modifications

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    So David, I intend this to address your original query, but could we start from a different perspective? You realize you may be the owner of possibly a very cool car, and you are enthusiastic. Excellent! Let's pose to the group here, where there is a lot of maturity; I for example, owned my first series1 when it and I were very young. It became a an 327 with raw power unbecoming its previously suave unassuming ability to knock any camaro or mustang back. I was young and enthusiastic. I still have a lot of enthusiasm for the series 1 I've been dragging around for about 25 years as the last car I intend to build. So let's say we've just had one of the coolest cars ever, not only for its historic interest, but great handling and power in its day dropped in our lap. I'll bet if you could get the brakes, suspension, interior, body, etc looking and rolling as you would like it to, you would be very proud of your car, assuming you and your fiancÚ are tight in a long term relationship, and there is a great joy in doing this sort of thing ground up with her support. As for the engine, see what condition it is in and could it run with minor expense. Then, pose the question: hey, if you just got hold of a series 1, what would you do? And you will find that question answered in a variety of ways. We've all seen or started tough projects that may never get finished. Fortunately, Z's have been so popular that pretty much everything is out there to build one any way you please. Folks here like a good project and will be very helpful. Start the dream over. It's still good. Learn as you go, do as much as possible yourself, and you will be driving it and grinning bigger sooner. Get a catalog and make an outline of each area, such as brakes. List every possible part you would need to simply rebuild the car to driveable. See how much money you have left to buy some nice wheels and new seats and stereo. You will have a hard time keeping up with installing all those cool parts on a basically stock Z. Then, when adding power or economy even, the engine work will declare itself. Lighten up a little, ask forgiveness, and not only will you find good advice, but people here who have extra parts and time and money-saving mechanical skills. My Z desire: the drivetrain from one of my other favorite cars, BMW e24 635. Why? Several reasons, but mostly because...I have it all, electronics and all, and lots of experience and huge amount of patience. Peace. Jim

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    I do sincerely apologize for any offense caused by my language. If I had taken the time to read what I had written before posting, I would have not used such a word.

    A lot of this build has just been day dreaming of what I could do. I get away from reality sometimes. And it was not right of me to get defensive and lash out at those of you whom where simply trying to give me a reality check.

    Now that I have my feet a little more firmly planted on reality, I do have a couple questions...

    I am absolutely okay with using premium fuel only in this car as it will not be a daily driver, so my target is somewhere around 10:1 compression... is there anything else I need to worry about raising the compression that high in this engine (assuming the engine is structurally sound enough to use at all)? Special head gasket? Head studs?

    Will zero-decking the block, or shaving the head, negate the use of larger valves?
    If I am not overboring to add displacement, and I just re-needle the SU carbs, would larger valves be worth the hassle?

    And cam...? Something with good street manners that will compliment a high-compression L24. Do I have to go aftermarket, or would simply using a different L-engine cam be a better choice?

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    Great Dave, glad you're back! You have just enrolled in a lifetime course of study. Most of us us have done considerable reading and debating the points you wish to know. Now, some questions for you. Have you dragged, pushed, begged the Z into a decent, comfortable, lighted work space? How long has the car been sitting? Inside? Outside? Do you have a clear title? All cars, new or customized, are a collection of compromises, i.e. power vs economy; I think you want power. Comfort vs tight handling: you have a smooth ride already. Highly modified, close specs motor vs starts easily and runs smoothly for your fiancÚ. I suggest you start a library of engine building literature and cruise forums to learn how the variables of generations of internal combustion motors have been designed. Too tight internal tolerances may work theoretically, but, due to heat and friction can result in seizures or rapid wear. Custom building is a jigsaw puzzle in which every piece has to work together for the whole to work. Study. Study. Study. At nineteen, when I decided my first needed more "old school" grunt, I took it to a reputable? independent German car shop for a better cam, valves, etc. $950 investment blew out the bottom of the motor within a month, and there was no recompense. So, since my buddies were into Chevys, we installed a modified 327. It lost its original flavor and handling characteristics. Too aggressive for my real needs. Sorry, another long post, but I'll conclude with the speculation that some purists would berate me for bringing up the name of Albrecht Goertz. Goertz was an industrial designer, having worked on BMW styling and arguably may possibly have contributed some elements of the original z and Toyota 2000gt designs. There are also familial connections between Datsun, Prince, and Mercedes engine designs. So, since I loved the big six from the overweight 635, I just thought a small personal tribute to Goertz would also be a great car. Ok. I put that out there in good faith I'm not offending anyone's sensitivities. My daily driver is a 1976 BMW 2002 with m42 engine, 5 spd trans, all electrical and electronics, FI, CPU, from a 1991 318is (a particularly nice twin overhead cam w/header) I added rack and pinion and a limited slip diff from other BMW models. Anyway, even keeping it in the BMW marque, and keeping fabrication to a minimum in order to easily replace parts, it was about three years of intense study and practice to get it right. Much improved over the original carb, 4 speed, truck-like behaviors. It has started and run perfectly in any climate conditions for about five years with no maintenance other than oil changes. Do it carefully, do it right, and it will work reliably. Patience and careful planning and extreme attention to details! Now, start with a good cleanup and try to rejuvenate any parts to functional and you will build confidence and skills. Good luck with your fabulous find! (Given any thought to electric? Ha!) Peace! Jim

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    Zero- decking is what?
    Steve
    71 240z,bw-5sp 2.4-40 over,balanced,e-88,big valves,ported&polished, stage2,header, triple Mikuni's 40's
    3.90 Subaru STI LSD

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    So, I'm laid up with a muscle strain, otherwise I'm not into other peoples lives, yet visiting this site frequently, I find it a really good site and your story interesting, that with good intent, no real knowledge of your situation, and no legal responsibility, I would toss this caveat: be sure you consider all parties involved or interested and transfer the title whether you register and plate it or don't, before you act. I hope that everything works out. On this site, pick a thread like "how do I change my head gasket?" Or, "what rims and tires?" You will learn a lot. Enjoy!

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