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Thread: Starting a new project...Subaru STI Differential swap into my Z

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    Supporting Member Zedyone_kenobi's Avatar
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    Default Starting a new project...Subaru STI Differential swap into my Z

    I have replaced everything in the drivetrain except the Diff in my Z. I am going to do this in stages.

    First I am going to buy an R180 STI LSD differential. Already bidding on one on Ebay.
    Next up is the Wolf Creek output shafts so I can bolt up my half half shafts
    Finally after I save up a few more dollars, I will get the CV shafts form Wolf Creek to complete the conversion.

    I plan to take as many photos as possible. I may drop the rear suspension to replace the spring top hats.

    But we will see how bad the 'while I am at its get'
    1971 240Z HLS30-38691
    93.9% done and getting better every day
    Now with 100% more DATSUN SPIRIT L28 Power
    1968 Datsun 2000 SRL311-03416

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    Registered User Walter Moore's Avatar
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    I had heard that this was possible, and I believe that Madkaw may have a Subaru R180 in his car. I know that they look identical to the Nissan unit.

    I wonder who really makes them...
    '71 240Z, Because any fool can drive fast in a straight line.

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    Registered User beermanpete's Avatar
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    Yes, easily done. We have the STi LSD in our 240 using the Beta Motorsport (now sold by Wolf Creek) output shafts. I think the R180 is (and was) made by Mitsubishi Heavy Industries.

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    Nope - the same guys that have been making these diffs for years- Fuji

    Stephen, you might check the Subby forums too for guys selling there diffs. I got mine from someone who was parting out an STI.
    I wish I could afford the driveshafts myself to finish the transition.
    So far, nothing bad to report from doing this swap
    Steve
    71 240z,bw-5sp 2.4-40 over,balanced,e-88,big valves,ported&polished, stage2,header, triple Mikuni's 40's
    3.90 Subaru STI LSD

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    Nova Scotia,Canada,Earth Blue's Avatar
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    Small size and low weight plus LS is a great racing combo.
    There is scarcely anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse, and sell a little more cheaply.
    The person who buys on price alone is this man's lawful prey.


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    Supporting Member Zedyone_kenobi's Avatar
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    Exactly, I am not really sure I need a LSD, but the going rate for STI LSD's is about 450-550 bucks
    Throw in the WCR out put shafts and you are looking at 900 dollars for a pretty bulletproof rear end.
    1971 240Z HLS30-38691
    93.9% done and getting better every day
    Now with 100% more DATSUN SPIRIT L28 Power
    1968 Datsun 2000 SRL311-03416

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    Nova Scotia,Canada,Earth Blue's Avatar
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    I have a $700 R190 that can't be resuscitated.... trade ya that says it all. Your path is the right way to go. Keep us posted with pics. btw what Subie's can we raid in the J.Y.?
    There is scarcely anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse, and sell a little more cheaply.
    The person who buys on price alone is this man's lawful prey.


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  8. #8
    Supporting Member Zedyone_kenobi's Avatar
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    It must be an STI rear diff, which is the R180 just like ours, the WRX diff is the R160, and it will not work in 240Z's.

    My bid for an STI diff fell through... back on the hunt.



    Huzzah!

    499 shipped to my door!

    2004 STI rear diff, 3.90 ratio, LSD, with 45000 miles on it.

    Next up is wolf creek racing out put shafts.
    Last edited by Zedyone_kenobi; 10-29-2013 at 02:32 PM.
    1971 240Z HLS30-38691
    93.9% done and getting better every day
    Now with 100% more DATSUN SPIRIT L28 Power
    1968 Datsun 2000 SRL311-03416

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    Zeddyone - what is the axle ratio you are planing on getting? Why such worry about a strong rear gear and set-up? Is a v8 swap in the future?

    FWIW,
    Carl Bl

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    Supporting Member Zedyone_kenobi's Avatar
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    actually no it is not sir. The real reason is that my diff has leaky seals, and has always had a bit whine. I figured if I had a choice, I would love a LSD and a bit higher gear ratio (like an auto 240Z rear end). The STI rear diff and wolf creek half shafts sort of gives me a newer diff, with an LSD, and a higher gear ratio for a pretty decent price. Rebuilt Z diffs seem to go for about 900 bucks. I figured this is a viable alternative.

    I would NEVER put a V8 into my car. I love my datsun spirit L28.

    The STI rear diff is a 3.90, so it is not a huge step from my OEM diff. Plus if I ever get a 5 speed in there, it will work beautifully.
    1971 240Z HLS30-38691
    93.9% done and getting better every day
    Now with 100% more DATSUN SPIRIT L28 Power
    1968 Datsun 2000 SRL311-03416

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    Registered User madkaw's Avatar
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    Not huge- but a big step from 354 to 390's
    You will like the additional Getty up
    Steve
    71 240z,bw-5sp 2.4-40 over,balanced,e-88,big valves,ported&polished, stage2,header, triple Mikuni's 40's
    3.90 Subaru STI LSD

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    RAREZX ZXR616's Avatar
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    I've got a 280ZXR. I took an R200 and installed a Phantom Grip unit for LSD. Seems to work fairly decently.

    Wonder if the Wolf Creek CV's will work on a ZX....Gotta drop 'em a line and find out!!

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    Zedyone

    What's your gas milage with the 3.90 on the highway. Mine gets around 27 mpg.
    Ray
    1974 Datson 260Z
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    RAREZX ZXR616's Avatar
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    Drove to Nebraska in August for the Sand Hills Open Road Challenge, 2600 miles round trip...got between 22 to 24 at highway speeds (80+). Sure wish I had cruise control!!!

    And I was towing a trailer!!
    Last edited by ZXR616; 10-29-2013 at 04:31 PM.

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    Zedyone

    I have 4 speed trans and 3.36 diff.
    Ray
    1974 Datson 260Z
    RLS30-27748 Matching #'s
    L26 Stock w/72 Round Tops
    Interpart Front Spoiler
    Addco Front & Rear Sway Bars
    My Very First Car
    Purchased 5/23/1974

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    Supporting Member Zedyone_kenobi's Avatar
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    I am not sure buddy.
    I have not finished this mod yet. I have just ordered parts.

    UPDATE:

    Wolf creek half shafts are ordered and on the way.

    All parts should be here in about a week!

    When I get them installed I will see what kind of mileage I get Ray.

    But I bought this ratio with the intent on one day maybe putting in a Datsun 5 speed.
    1971 240Z HLS30-38691
    93.9% done and getting better every day
    Now with 100% more DATSUN SPIRIT L28 Power
    1968 Datsun 2000 SRL311-03416

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    Registered User Travel'n Man's Avatar
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    Keep us updated - the 5 speed is the way to go if you do any traveling at all. Slipping in 5th gear a 60MPH is a beautiful thing.........and still have plenty of get up and go! My 3.90 diff is great through all the gear changes with the 5 speed. Putting in a 4 speed with the 3.90 may be a little over the top........fyi.
    Life's a journey; enjoy the ride!

    Mitchell
    L28 - N42 Block w/Flat tops - N42 Rebello Head & Cam - Triple 40 PHH Mikuni's - Headers - Recaro Seats -
    R180 3.9 Diff - Close Ratio 5 Speed - Toyota Vented Brake Upgrade w/ Porterfield High Performance Pads & Shoes

    1972 Datsun 240z
    HLS30-75040


  18. #18
    Supporting Member Zedyone_kenobi's Avatar
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    Well I can start out with the 3.90 as it is, and then if it gets too bad, I can install a 5 speed. I already have the tunnel cut, and the console modified to accept the Type B. So it should be a breeze. Still I mostly just put around doing car shows locally within 20 miles. So it may not be too bad. The occasional track day as well.

    Still the new diff may make my dieing tachometer a bit more of an annoyance. Time will tell. I can see mostly good coming from this.
    1971 240Z HLS30-38691
    93.9% done and getting better every day
    Now with 100% more DATSUN SPIRIT L28 Power
    1968 Datsun 2000 SRL311-03416

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    Registered User Hunter260Z's Avatar
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    I thought someone came up with a modified shift lever that would save a lot headaches.They even had a picture,looked pretty neat.
    Ray
    1974 Datson 260Z
    RLS30-27748 Matching #'s
    L26 Stock w/72 Round Tops
    Interpart Front Spoiler
    Addco Front & Rear Sway Bars
    My Very First Car
    Purchased 5/23/1974

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    Supporting Member Zedyone_kenobi's Avatar
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    It exists, but I am actually using a stock B type shifter in my car. I had to trim the OEM 71 console a bit, but it works wonderfully and you cannot tell I made the cuts.
    1971 240Z HLS30-38691
    93.9% done and getting better every day
    Now with 100% more DATSUN SPIRIT L28 Power
    1968 Datsun 2000 SRL311-03416

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    Registered User Hunter260Z's Avatar
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    That's great,The older I get I find my memory failing me. By the way, what motor did you get from Datsun Spirit. STR2.8a or STR2.8b
    Ray
    1974 Datson 260Z
    RLS30-27748 Matching #'s
    L26 Stock w/72 Round Tops
    Interpart Front Spoiler
    Addco Front & Rear Sway Bars
    My Very First Car
    Purchased 5/23/1974

  22. #22
    Registered User Jeff G 78's Avatar
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    I like the upgrade and I understand that you are getting a modern, good condition diff, but wouldn't finding a low mileage R180 or R200 and installing an OBX LSD be a cheaper option? It's not a shot at you, I'm really asking which is better/cheaper. Here in the east, there are countless rotted out S130's with low mileage 3.90 R200 diffs. The OBX sells for about $400 and the S130 R200 can be had for nearly nothing. I paid $500 for an F54 engine, 5 speed trans, 3.90 R200, driveshaft and halfshafts all with low miles.
    Jeff
    Northville, Michigan
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    With the OBX you'll have to get deep in to the guts of the differential, and the odds are high that there will be clunking or howling or the Belleville washers will fail if you don't replace them. With the STI you could not even remove the cover and probably end up okay. Kind of comes down to how much risk you want to take and how much wrench work you want to do. The OBX seems simple in concept but the details are difficult.

    On the 5 speed - don't forget that the early ones have a 3.321 1st gear and .864 5th, while the later ones have a 3.062 1st, and .745 5th. The later ones, 80-83 ZX, typically came with the 3.9 rear gear, so you'll want an 80-83 ZX 5 speed.
    1976 280Z, with some minor modifications

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    Nova Scotia,Canada,Earth Blue's Avatar
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    Never heard of the OBX (apart from the synth).

    Looks like OBX is of typical mainland China quality metals, quality build and consistent component uniformity...lol

    OBX_LSD Products

    Remember they can polish a turd there very well.
    There is scarcely anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse, and sell a little more cheaply.
    The person who buys on price alone is this man's lawful prey.


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    ZCars in Eastern Canada seaport ready for shipment to Europe

    http://ZSportCanada.com


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    Supporting Member Zedyone_kenobi's Avatar
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    Jeff G, Your points are valid, and perhaps I did not find the best solution, but I think a factory set up LSD form subaru (my favorite car company, so I am biased) may prove more robust than anything I can set up in my garage. HOnestly, I never even heard about OBX until right now. But I went with what makes me feel comfortable. I trust Subaru, I trust Wolf Creek Racing, and I trust myself to put those together.

    1971 240Z HLS30-38691
    93.9% done and getting better every day
    Now with 100% more DATSUN SPIRIT L28 Power
    1968 Datsun 2000 SRL311-03416

  26. #26
    Supporting Member Zedyone_kenobi's Avatar
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    I got the STR2.8b

    In fact the pic on his webpage is my engine!
    1971 240Z HLS30-38691
    93.9% done and getting better every day
    Now with 100% more DATSUN SPIRIT L28 Power
    1968 Datsun 2000 SRL311-03416

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    Registered User Jeff G 78's Avatar
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    There was a lot of OBX talk on hybridZ. It's a Quaife/Torsen copy and other than the fact that many of the units are assembled wrong, they seem to work very well. Buyers usually disassemble the units when they get them and make sure that the assembly is correct. If not, it's a simple reassembly in the right orientation to fix the mistake. Once assembled correctly, the buyers have had very good success with the OBX unit.

    Again, I'm not questioning your decision, I just wondered if you weighed the options. The OBX LSD is fairly unknown outside of the hybridZ world so I understand that you hadn't heard of it. I'm not sure why nobody knows about it, but I've never heard any chatter on this site about the OBX.
    Jeff
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    '78 280 10:1 CR, Arizona Z Car header, urethane bushings, Tokico springs, Illumina struts, Panasports w/Hankook R-S2 225/50R16 tires, Maxima 105 amp alternator
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    '74 260Z BRE look-alike crap can for Optima Batteries ChumpCar World Series Racing racing
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    Supporting Member Zedyone_kenobi's Avatar
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    Well truth be told an OEM stock 240Z really does not Need a LSD. I am not sure I even still need one with the sticky 205 rubber I am running on my car. But it is sort of part of the package, so I welcome it, but I am not sure it will be a dramatic difference.

    Also, this will finally give me an excuse to install my RT Zsonthebrain diff mount as well. So a lot of things are going to happen once parts start to arrive.

    Kudos to Todd at Wolf Creek by the way. Shipped it out the same day I orderd it.

    Great service.
    1971 240Z HLS30-38691
    93.9% done and getting better every day
    Now with 100% more DATSUN SPIRIT L28 Power
    1968 Datsun 2000 SRL311-03416

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    I ave the OBX in the R200 3.54 rear in my 280Z ITS race car. It has all the upgraded bolts, wachers, etc. It's seen 2+ years of auto-x and a year of road racing. No problems.

    Chuck
    East Coast Z Nationals held at the Carlisle Import & Kit Nationals - May 16-18, 2014 Carlisle, PA
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    1969 240Z #390
    1971 Fairlady Z
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    Quote Originally Posted by cbuczesk View Post
    I ave the OBX in the R200 3.54 rear in my 280Z ITS race car. It has all the upgraded bolts, wachers, etc. It's seen 2+ years of auto-x and a year of road racing. No problems.

    Chuck
    So how long did it take you to do the work? And did you get the parts from the guy on Hybridz? What would you estimate you spent, all told, by the time you got it installed? Just to fill in the blanks for a good comparison to a diff and half-shaft swap.
    1976 280Z, with some minor modifications

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    Registered User cbuczesk's Avatar
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    The PO puchased the OBX and had it installed. Pretty sure he also installed new bearings. I have the receipts at home. I'll get the info tonight and post it.

    Chuck
    East Coast Z Nationals held at the Carlisle Import & Kit Nationals - May 16-18, 2014 Carlisle, PA
    www.carlisleevents.com/events/import
    1969 240Z #390
    1971 Fairlady Z
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    Labor to replace bearings and seals was $215 by the local Nissan dealer. Bearings and seals were $250. I can't find any info on what it cost to have to LSD unit installed. Sorry.

    Chuck
    East Coast Z Nationals held at the Carlisle Import & Kit Nationals - May 16-18, 2014 Carlisle, PA
    www.carlisleevents.com/events/import
    1969 240Z #390
    1971 Fairlady Z
    1971 240Z parts car
    1972 240Z ITS race car
    1972 240Z turbo
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    Registered User madkaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zedyone_kenobi View Post
    Well truth be told an OEM stock 240Z really does not Need a LSD. I am not sure I even still need one with the sticky 205 rubber I am running on my car. But it is sort of part of the package, so I welcome it, but I am not sure it will be a dramatic difference.

    Also, this will finally give me an excuse to install my RT Zsonthebrain diff mount as well. So a lot of things are going to happen once parts start to arrive.

    Kudos to Todd at Wolf Creek by the way. Shipped it out the same day I orderd it.

    Great service.
    I think I remember John Coffey stating that the LSD is the single best improvement you can do for handling. With the STI set up it is one of the easiest also. The LSD is not that exotic for an OEM , just a very nice option.
    Steve
    71 240z,bw-5sp 2.4-40 over,balanced,e-88,big valves,ported&polished, stage2,header, triple Mikuni's 40's
    3.90 Subaru STI LSD

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff G 78 View Post
    There was a lot of OBX talk on hybridZ. It's a Quaife/Torsen copy and other than the fact that many of the units are assembled wrong, they seem to work very well. Buyers usually disassemble the units when they get them and make sure that the assembly is correct. If not, it's a simple reassembly in the right orientation to fix the mistake. Once assembled correctly, the buyers have had very good success with the OBX unit.

    Again, I'm not questioning your decision, I just wondered if you weighed the options. The OBX LSD is fairly unknown outside of the hybridZ world so I understand that you hadn't heard of it. I'm not sure why nobody knows about it, but I've never heard any chatter on this site about the OBX.
    Good option for the gear head- bad for the novice. That's why an OEM( very good OEM) was the best option for me. I wouldn't know if I was putting the OBX in a wore out diff or not. I've read on the Subby sites that the r180LSD is good for 400hp and it was made in this century!!
    Steve
    71 240z,bw-5sp 2.4-40 over,balanced,e-88,big valves,ported&polished, stage2,header, triple Mikuni's 40's
    3.90 Subaru STI LSD

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    Marooned Fish cygnusx1's Avatar
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    Did someone say OBX? Yes it works, and it's pretty darned tough. I am going on about 3-4 years with it now (about 350RWHP). No issues. I actually, opened up the back of my R200, and swapped in the OBX unit with the 200m ring gear from the R200 swapped onto it. I reused the shims that were already in the R200, bolted it up, checked the gear lash which was fine, and filled it with oil. I like it. My only gripe is that it does clunk, but so did the R200 before I installed the OBX. If the STi unit can eliminate the clunk, that would be a plus. Yes, my clunk is coming from the diff internals...it has been thoroughly investigated externally. I am not sure if its from the OBX, the pinion, the ring, or splines. Good luck with the STi Diff install, please report on it.

    http://forums.hybridz.org/topic/8809...lation/?hl=obx < The picture in this thread is a photo of my OBX unit when I discovered that they were assembled BACKWARDS!
    Last edited by cygnusx1; 10-30-2013 at 10:46 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cygnusx1 View Post
    The picture in this thread is a photo of my OBX unit when I discovered that they were assembled BACKWARDS!
    Mainland China.... they also produce food and safety equipment there.
    There is scarcely anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse, and sell a little more cheaply.
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    My only thing I have to source is the pressed in studs that need to fit into the output shafts that WCR sells. I could take the ones off my old Diff, but I would rather install new ones. Anybody know a source of said studs.

    thanks!

    parts should start arriving friday or monday.
    1971 240Z HLS30-38691
    93.9% done and getting better every day
    Now with 100% more DATSUN SPIRIT L28 Power
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    You might have to search the threads on Hybridz for that. They were having a tough time coming up with those. I used the ones from my old axles without reservation. Not sure if I have ever read about a failure on one of these bolts.
    Last edited by madkaw; 10-31-2013 at 08:30 AM. Reason: because
    Steve
    71 240z,bw-5sp 2.4-40 over,balanced,e-88,big valves,ported&polished, stage2,header, triple Mikuni's 40's
    3.90 Subaru STI LSD

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    I have a spare diff in my storage unit, so I may have an extra set already...Thanks! I just wanted new ones... well, just because...
    1971 240Z HLS30-38691
    93.9% done and getting better every day
    Now with 100% more DATSUN SPIRIT L28 Power
    1968 Datsun 2000 SRL311-03416

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    Wonder if the dealer might have them. Looks like they're called out in the R180 diagram, but not the R200. Part #34.

    Datsun 240Z/260Z/280Z Differential Gear, Pinion & Cover (R180)

    And Courtesy shows availability. $3.11 each.

    BOLT-DRIVE :: Nissan Parts, NISMO and Nissan Accessories - Courtesyparts.com
    1976 280Z, with some minor modifications

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    I forgot all about courtesy!
    Thanks for that research, I am going to get 8 new bolts then!
    1971 240Z HLS30-38691
    93.9% done and getting better every day
    Now with 100% more DATSUN SPIRIT L28 Power
    1968 Datsun 2000 SRL311-03416

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    Looking forward to the pics of the conversion. You will notice a big improvement going to the 3.90! If you like hwy driving I will definetly recommend a 5spd swap with that gear ratio.

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    Have you looked to see what you will be taching at 60-65mph with a 3.9 diff matched with your current 4 speed?
    Life's a journey; enjoy the ride!

    Mitchell
    L28 - N42 Block w/Flat tops - N42 Rebello Head & Cam - Triple 40 PHH Mikuni's - Headers - Recaro Seats -
    R180 3.9 Diff - Close Ratio 5 Speed - Toyota Vented Brake Upgrade w/ Porterfield High Performance Pads & Shoes

    1972 Datsun 240z
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    Mitchell

    That's a good question,I was thinking the same thing. I'm going to take a wild guess and say app 4000rpm.
    Ray
    1974 Datson 260Z
    RLS30-27748 Matching #'s
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    It could be more.
    Life's a journey; enjoy the ride!

    Mitchell
    L28 - N42 Block w/Flat tops - N42 Rebello Head & Cam - Triple 40 PHH Mikuni's - Headers - Recaro Seats -
    R180 3.9 Diff - Close Ratio 5 Speed - Toyota Vented Brake Upgrade w/ Porterfield High Performance Pads & Shoes

    1972 Datsun 240z
    HLS30-75040


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    I'm thinking more like 3500 at 60, depending on whether Stephen has the 336 set or the 354 in his car.
    Steve
    71 240z,bw-5sp 2.4-40 over,balanced,e-88,big valves,ported&polished, stage2,header, triple Mikuni's 40's
    3.90 Subaru STI LSD

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    Again, read the threads on Hybridz about the bolts for the side axles. Courtesy got it wrong for me and it took two months to get a refund on my credit card.

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    I read through the thread and, actually, the studs just seem to be difficult to find. Dtsnlvrs reported in Post #242 that the part number, 38228-21000, does work and can be found. In #245 you found 12. So it comes down to luck or, hopefully, Nissan made more. Somebody talked about Nissan having a vendor make more so maybe they've restocked by now. I forgot to note which post and got tired of reading so can't say who said that. Post #257 reports an option using hex heads.

    Maybe a design revision would be in order to allow the use of readily available studs. It's Wolf Creek's program now, maybe someone can send a prompt.

    By the way, somebody had "whine" in Post #273, although it was just one of several. But, reconsidering everything, the OBX option seems to score a few more points in the viability contest.


    Subaru WRX STi R180 Side Axles - Vendor's Forum - HybridZ
    1976 280Z, with some minor modifications

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    UPDATE:

    Diff came in Saturday and Half shafts Friday.

    Huzzah! I ordered a one ton arbor press from Harbor Fright… So we will get to work soon on cleaning polishing and painting.
    1971 240Z HLS30-38691
    93.9% done and getting better every day
    Now with 100% more DATSUN SPIRIT L28 Power
    1968 Datsun 2000 SRL311-03416

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    parts are in. Just waiting on my press!
    1971 240Z HLS30-38691
    93.9% done and getting better every day
    Now with 100% more DATSUN SPIRIT L28 Power
    1968 Datsun 2000 SRL311-03416

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    Press is for?
    Steve
    71 240z,bw-5sp 2.4-40 over,balanced,e-88,big valves,ported&polished, stage2,header, triple Mikuni's 40's
    3.90 Subaru STI LSD

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    Studs that go into the half shafts.
    1971 240Z HLS30-38691
    93.9% done and getting better every day
    Now with 100% more DATSUN SPIRIT L28 Power
    1968 Datsun 2000 SRL311-03416

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    I guess i only remember cleaning up the old ones and throwing them in the freezer! I guess they are a 'press fit', but just a tight tolerance.
    The only issue I had with my axles was that the ID machined on the new axle that mates to the raised circle on the DS did not match. I coudn't get the DS to fit onto the new stub axle. After measuring I found that the new axle was under machined by .003, so I had to take them to get cut. It should be a snug fit, but make sure you really clean off your old DS in this area well.
    I haven't read of anyone else having this issue, so it might have slipped thru QC.
    Steve
    71 240z,bw-5sp 2.4-40 over,balanced,e-88,big valves,ported&polished, stage2,header, triple Mikuni's 40's
    3.90 Subaru STI LSD

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    Depending on the fit, you might use a stack of big washers and the nut to pull the stud in to place. Check the flange fit first though, re madkaw's post.

    Did you get the studs from your local dealer or Courtesy?
    1976 280Z, with some minor modifications

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    No, I have a spare R180 Diff in my storage unit I plan to take the studs off. I will leave this Diff untouched as it came with the car. So I will rob the studs from that diff. Figured I would save a few bucks doing it that way.

    I have been wanting an arbor press for a while anyway, it can have so many uses. So I figured why not pick one up.
    1971 240Z HLS30-38691
    93.9% done and getting better every day
    Now with 100% more DATSUN SPIRIT L28 Power
    1968 Datsun 2000 SRL311-03416

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    We reused the factory bolts as well. They do fit tight into the flange. There is no chamfer on the flange and it raised burrs when we installed the bolts. You may want to lightly chamfer the back side of the holes in the flanges. Freezing the bolts as Madkaw suggested will help as well.

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    Zedy..
    Looks like you are making great progress as usual.
    Maybe I missed it over the course of this discussion - but what type of LSD is in that Subi unit?

    Dave - I've had a Torsen/Gleason unit in my 72 for decades now. BSR set it up for me in the mid 70's with 4.11's - the only time it "clunks" is when I backup and at the same time turn. I am told this is common with that unit, as the mechanical parts unload in that situation.. Other than that it has been indestructible and never clunks moving forward - or in reverse if I'm going straight back.

    BTW - When I swapped out the L24 for an L28 - I found that the 4.11 was unnecessarily low - the L28 has so much more torque - a 3.7 would have been better for my use..

    FWIW,
    Carl B.

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    Carl,

    3.9 ratio:
    2004, 2005, 2008

    3.54 ratio:
    2006, 2007

    CLSD:
    2004, 2005, 2006

    Torsen LSD:
    2007, 2008

    I'm running the 3.90. Pretty damn quiet. Sometimes pulling into my garage, which is steep, I hear and feel a studder and I think thats the LSD, but can't swear to it.
    Steve
    71 240z,bw-5sp 2.4-40 over,balanced,e-88,big valves,ported&polished, stage2,header, triple Mikuni's 40's
    3.90 Subaru STI LSD

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    THanks madkaw, I was about to look up what kind of LSD is in the 2004 unit
    1971 240Z HLS30-38691
    93.9% done and getting better every day
    Now with 100% more DATSUN SPIRIT L28 Power
    1968 Datsun 2000 SRL311-03416

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    Default Well the process is moving along now..



    Took the day off to have some free time on what must be the most lovely day of the year so far in the Houston Area. Fired a pot of coffee, turned on my favorite country station, and slowly began taking the factory diff out of the car. Well less than 2 hours later… I was done.



    I sprayed some simple green on the OEM diff and then drug it out into the sun to compare it to the STI diff. I would wager more people will want to see the comparison of the two… so without further ado:







    Next think want to do is pull off the rear cover and the side covers off the STI diff and give them a good cleaning. The rubber seals where the output shafts contacts look to be a bit rough. I may have to go by Subaru parts to get more rubber seals so they do not leak. They may be the same as the Datsun ones, I do not know until I pull the sides off.

    Will probably get new bolts or send mine off to get cleaned and plated. Not sure yet. Everything unbolted perfectly fine. I had to cut the old Diff strap off to get it out as my exhaust was too big and would not let the diff crossmember move out of the way. But this may give me a chance to finally use the RT Diff mount I have had for 2 years.



    Well that is enough work for now. I have to start looking to get parts cleaned. Then I can make a run to the storage unit and get my spare diff and pull the half shafts.

    Anybody have any advice on puling the OEM halfshafts out?
    1971 240Z HLS30-38691
    93.9% done and getting better every day
    Now with 100% more DATSUN SPIRIT L28 Power
    1968 Datsun 2000 SRL311-03416

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    Remove the bolt and yank

    Could you do a weight comparison too?
    Steve
    71 240z,bw-5sp 2.4-40 over,balanced,e-88,big valves,ported&polished, stage2,header, triple Mikuni's 40's
    3.90 Subaru STI LSD

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    That seems to be the trick, but what worries me now is the new output shafts require some kind of c-clip or ring to hold them in. The R180 as packaged by Datsun does not have these rings. Now I may have to source some.
    1971 240Z HLS30-38691
    93.9% done and getting better every day
    Now with 100% more DATSUN SPIRIT L28 Power
    1968 Datsun 2000 SRL311-03416

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    They will snap in to your Subby diff just fine! I had to tap mine in with a dead blow hammer.
    Steve
    71 240z,bw-5sp 2.4-40 over,balanced,e-88,big valves,ported&polished, stage2,header, triple Mikuni's 40's
    3.90 Subaru STI LSD

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    Hmmm I think I have an R180 with yokes coming out the side rather than the flat flange with 4 studs.

    If there are 27 spline and 25 spline versions of this it would make adapting a lot easier.... just change the U joint to join.
    There is scarcely anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse, and sell a little more cheaply.
    The person who buys on price alone is this man's lawful prey.


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    Default R180 yoke

    Yup here are the puppies:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Last edited by Blue; 11-07-2013 at 10:47 AM.
    There is scarcely anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse, and sell a little more cheaply.
    The person who buys on price alone is this man's lawful prey.


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    http://ZSportCanada.com


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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue View Post
    Hmmm I think I have an R180 with yokes coming out the side rather than the flat flange with 4 studs.

    If there are 27 spline and 25 spline versions of this it would make adapting a lot easier.... just change the U joint to join.
    So your thinking those axles will just bolt to the Subby diff?
    Steve
    71 240z,bw-5sp 2.4-40 over,balanced,e-88,big valves,ported&polished, stage2,header, triple Mikuni's 40's
    3.90 Subaru STI LSD

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    No, not quite that. I am wondering if there is a Subaru 27 spine with yokes.
    Last edited by Blue; 11-07-2013 at 02:46 PM.
    There is scarcely anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse, and sell a little more cheaply.
    The person who buys on price alone is this man's lawful prey.


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    Okay I double checked and yes Madkaw, you are 100% correct, they should just pop in with some persuasion. I just spent 15 minutes trying to see if I could polish the diff cover.. Um… it is going to take some time!

    But all is well. Found some new bolts and washers and lock washers to install. Just need about 2x as many. Will have to hit up some hardware places for metric CAD plated bolts..



    Dont laugh at me!!
    1971 240Z HLS30-38691
    93.9% done and getting better every day
    Now with 100% more DATSUN SPIRIT L28 Power
    1968 Datsun 2000 SRL311-03416

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    Like I mentioned before - check fitment of stub axle to DS before installing on diff. Make sure the flanges mate up correctly between the DS and stub axle with no gaps. Clean, clean and a little lube so you can pull them back apart for diff install.
    Steve
    71 240z,bw-5sp 2.4-40 over,balanced,e-88,big valves,ported&polished, stage2,header, triple Mikuni's 40's
    3.90 Subaru STI LSD

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    For the 27 spline yoke idea, maybe a chev part could be used as a blank to machine?

    Click image for larger version. 

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    There is scarcely anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse, and sell a little more cheaply.
    The person who buys on price alone is this man's lawful prey.


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    ZCars in Eastern Canada seaport ready for shipment to Europe

    http://ZSportCanada.com


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    I don't understand all this discussion about cutting yokes, disassembling diffs, etc. The side axles and the STI R180 are as close to bolt-in as anything made for the S30. Yes, I had one pair of side axles where the center section was slightly smaller on OD and Steve was the lucky guy to get those. He had a local machinist fix it and IRRC I sent him $30 per his request.

    The yoke above has internal splines while side axles require external splines. This ain't rocket science guys. Just put the bolts in the flange, put the side axles in the diff, and swap the front pinion flange.

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    Quote Originally Posted by John Coffey View Post
    I don't understand all this discussion about cutting yokes, disassembling diffs, etc. The side axles and the STI R180 are as close to bolt-in as anything made for the S30. Yes, I had one pair of side axles where the center section was slightly smaller on OD and Steve was the lucky guy to get those. He had a local machinist fix it and IRRC I sent him $30 per his request.

    The yoke above has internal splines while side axles require external splines. This ain't rocket science guys. Just put the bolts in the flange, put the side axles in the diff, and swap the front pinion flange.
    Like John said, a 30$ fix which John took care of, and she bolted up fine.
    Not sure where these other ideas are going, John took all the thinking out of the equation
    Steve
    71 240z,bw-5sp 2.4-40 over,balanced,e-88,big valves,ported&polished, stage2,header, triple Mikuni's 40's
    3.90 Subaru STI LSD

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    I think Blue is having a side bar not exactly on this subject. But related

    The OEM Datsun half shafts should bolt up to the Wolf Creek output flanges just fine. I have not checked the fit, but I am not too worried about it. They should fit, if not I will deal with it. This is all about rolling with the punches and not making a square peg fit into a round hole. The right decision will not always be the easy or cheap one. But I will tackle my half shafts after I get my Diff done up the way I like it.

    I have just been cleaning up parts with a wire wheel and gathering some hardware…
    1971 240Z HLS30-38691
    93.9% done and getting better every day
    Now with 100% more DATSUN SPIRIT L28 Power
    1968 Datsun 2000 SRL311-03416

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    Yup... I like what you are doing but $500 for the stubbies from Wolf Creek is the hardest part of the upgrade in my opinion. There may be a less expensive solution. The Yoke solution arose from your trouble getting those short faced D cut bolts. A Yoke with 27 splined shaft would be a nice keystone. That chev or a similar yoke may be all that is needed with some machining...if lucky.... keep going....sidebar or not
    There is scarcely anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse, and sell a little more cheaply.
    The person who buys on price alone is this man's lawful prey.


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    http://ZSportCanada.com


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    This a corollary to the subject but it has been brought up several times. An LSD and a TBD aren't the same thing. I assume that since I hear the STi uses a Torsen type that it is actually a TBD you are putting in. Having used Quaiffe and Gleason/Torsen TBD's for years, I can speak to the difference they make. Those of us who race and autocross love our 'mid-corner speed.' When you go back on throttle in the corner, the only drama is acceleration not wheel spin with the TBD.
    It is often said that LSD is best for road race courses, so to us grassroots guys who don't race, that means DE, it is also said that TBD is best for autocross.
    My Z uses a real honest to goodness Datsun Competition Limited Slip Unit, in fact the suspension and exhaust on my car looks like a old Datsun Competition poster child. I like my 914's TBD much better.
    You will like it too Steve.
    Rob
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    need some advice on what kind of mount to use with the new diff
    Here are my options:

    1) Buy a new strap and go back to OEM. Motorsport sells replacement straps that will probably work.

    2) Go with the RT mount with the bump stop on top and the OEM on bottom

    3) Go with the RT mount with the GM motor mount option that has no lower mount (this one I need some help on)

    Figure OEM would work, and I never really had a clunk to speak of. But I would be interested in opinions. Also if anybody knows the mount needed for the RT to work as a standalone let me know

    THanks Blue!

    I got the studs out of the other diff without any problems. I removed the flange from the OEM diff and then set it on a solid surface and with a 5 lb maul just tapped out the old studs. They pressed into the Wolf Creek flanges without any fuss what so ever. They went in actually very easy. Probably some permanent set on the studs, but they will work as they are.
    Last edited by Zedyone_kenobi; 11-10-2013 at 12:56 PM.
    1971 240Z HLS30-38691
    93.9% done and getting better every day
    Now with 100% more DATSUN SPIRIT L28 Power
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    Quote Originally Posted by conedodger View Post
    This a corollary to the subject but it has been brought up several times. An LSD and a TBD aren't the same thing. I assume that since I hear the STi uses a Torsen type that it is actually a TBD you are putting in. Having used Quaiffe and Gleason/Torsen TBD's for years, I can speak to the difference they make. Those of us who race and autocross love our 'mid-corner speed.' When you go back on throttle in the corner, the only drama is acceleration not wheel spin with the TBD.
    It is often said that LSD is best for road race courses, so to us grassroots guys who don't race, that means DE, it is also said that TBD is best for autocross.
    My Z uses a real honest to goodness Datsun Competition Limited Slip Unit, in fact the suspension and exhaust on my car looks like a old Datsun Competition poster child. I like my 914's TBD much better.
    You will like it too Steve.
    I think it depends what year diff you get. I believe STI's used both clutch and TB
    Steve
    71 240z,bw-5sp 2.4-40 over,balanced,e-88,big valves,ported&polished, stage2,header, triple Mikuni's 40's
    3.90 Subaru STI LSD

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    #2 definetly
    Steve
    71 240z,bw-5sp 2.4-40 over,balanced,e-88,big valves,ported&polished, stage2,header, triple Mikuni's 40's
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    Option 2 for sure. No reason not to especially if you've got the RT in hand already, it's way superior to the OEM design.
    Rubber is strong in compression and weak in tension so with an RT mount and a stock mount sandwiching the diff then each mount gets to play to it's compressive strengths.

    Using the RT as a standalone with a hanging mount isn't recommended for a stock engined Z as it changes the angle of the diff a bit to "less than ideal". It's really a modification for V8 swap guys as they need the slightly canted pinion angle to match up with the equally canted new engine in the swap.
    Last edited by Captain_Zeros; 11-11-2013 at 05:09 AM.
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    Well then number 2 it is!!
    1971 240Z HLS30-38691
    93.9% done and getting better every day
    Now with 100% more DATSUN SPIRIT L28 Power
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    You may be able to adapt parts/philosophies of these designs to enhance.

    https://www.classiczcars.com/forums/...tml#post374011
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    Well I am well on the way to finishing this. I have all my seals coming in, and I am almost done tracking down some new shiney hardware. I polished the plates on the side with a wire brush and painted the new diff with some POR chassis black for presentation purposes.

    I am still cleaning up parts in the spare time.

    On a side note, has anybody priced the bolts that connect the half shaft to the hub on the rear wheel? EACH bolt is 12.57 at MSA! EACH BOLT!! You need 8 of them!!!! I am going to have to invest in a CAD plate kit from Eastwood soon. I like my hardware to be perfect when it goes together. I have a rare phobia against dirty threads... called impropertorqueaphobia
    1971 240Z HLS30-38691
    93.9% done and getting better every day
    Now with 100% more DATSUN SPIRIT L28 Power
    1968 Datsun 2000 SRL311-03416

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    The bolts for the half-shaft to hub are available from Nissan at about $3 each.

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    Oh I will reuse my old ones, they cleaned up nice, but I was just shocked at the price MSA wants, I would always call courtesy before ordering something like that.
    1971 240Z HLS30-38691
    93.9% done and getting better every day
    Now with 100% more DATSUN SPIRIT L28 Power
    1968 Datsun 2000 SRL311-03416

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    My seals and my rear diff cover came in today.

    Just waiting on some hardware and we can start zipping this puppy up.



    ON quick question, do you have to trim the bump stop on the RT mount any? I recall some folks having to shorten it a bit. It would be good to know BEFORE I bolt it in and have the diff suspended over my head.
    1971 240Z HLS30-38691
    93.9% done and getting better every day
    Now with 100% more DATSUN SPIRIT L28 Power
    1968 Datsun 2000 SRL311-03416

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    Yup, 3/4" for an r180, which is three 1/4" steps on the bump stop that was supplied with my mount from TechnoVersions. Pretty easy to do with the bump stop in a vice with a hacksaw.

    Disclaimer, I forget the nominal height of the bumpstop if you have a different one than I did, I'm pretty sure it's available in at least one thread in this forums.

    Here's a rusty crusty picture I got of it installed by jamming my phone up into the tunnel when I did mine and a picture of my uncut bump stop before the install (check out the shiny spot on the diff! That's where it was clunking from broken mounts!)
    Click image for larger version. 

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    1973 240Z w/ roundtop carbs, 280zx e12-80 distributor, 280zx alternator, late model Altima junkyard electric fans. 115 Blue Metallic & white side stripes.

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    That pic is spot on bud, thanks!

    I will check out the other RT mount threads to get an average, but your picture is what I remember!
    1971 240Z HLS30-38691
    93.9% done and getting better every day
    Now with 100% more DATSUN SPIRIT L28 Power
    1968 Datsun 2000 SRL311-03416

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    Oh Oh, I am starting to think I leaped before I looked...

    Looking at this image from wolf creek racing, it would appear that the bar that joins the lower support for the rear A-arms may interfere with my shwanky new diff cover..

    in the words of yo semitie sam.

    RAzzle Frazzle fragget
    1971 240Z HLS30-38691
    93.9% done and getting better every day
    Now with 100% more DATSUN SPIRIT L28 Power
    1968 Datsun 2000 SRL311-03416

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    The diff is the same exact dimensions as the one you took out- you don't need that curved bar.
    Steve
    71 240z,bw-5sp 2.4-40 over,balanced,e-88,big valves,ported&polished, stage2,header, triple Mikuni's 40's
    3.90 Subaru STI LSD

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    You are saying I do not NEED that curved bar. I would think it would provide some sort of useful stiffening. Or else why would Datsun engineers put it there. I know the diff is identical, but my new Perrin Cover sticks out further than my OEM cover did. It may hit the curved bar in question...

    This may require some investigation..

    I If you get rid of that curved bar, then what holds the bearings?



    without that bar, the curved sections would be missing. I need to get back under the car again to see what is going on.
    Last edited by Zedyone_kenobi; 11-19-2013 at 02:01 PM.
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    93.9% done and getting better every day
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    1968 Datsun 2000 SRL311-03416

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    Oops - didn't see the previous post and pic Stephen - you might be screwed with that cover. I did the whole r200 LSD thing with the big finned cover and had to make a large Heim joint to connect the LCA's.
    so either dump the cooler cover and put a stock one on or you have some fabbing to do
    Steve
    71 240z,bw-5sp 2.4-40 over,balanced,e-88,big valves,ported&polished, stage2,header, triple Mikuni's 40's
    3.90 Subaru STI LSD

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    Well there is always this option

    Last edited by Zedyone_kenobi; 11-19-2013 at 05:30 PM.
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    Now with 100% more DATSUN SPIRIT L28 Power
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    Zedy......The so called curved bar was so that the diff could be moved back in the later Z's to move the half shafts back so they didn't come out at an angle. Your Z is obviously an early 71 with the straight bar and the short driveshaft. While you've got the diff out, you could get the curved bar, longer driveshaft and fix the early angular flaw. Simply install the curved hangar, longer driveshaft, late style diff mount and flip the mustache bar and you're updated. You can get the used parts at a Z wrecking yard. BTW .....installing the R/T mount in the early Z's (your Z) requires mods to the mount for clearance purposes.
    Last edited by Diseazd; 11-19-2013 at 06:11 PM.
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    That is an interesting thought Guy. But I was under the impression I would need to get different half shafts as well?

    I may just sell the Perrin Diff and use the stock diff cover and call it a day. Shame, loved the bling.
    1971 240Z HLS30-38691
    93.9% done and getting better every day
    Now with 100% more DATSUN SPIRIT L28 Power
    1968 Datsun 2000 SRL311-03416

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    MIxed bag today. I got the drive shafts into the Diff, they literally just snap in. Almost too easy, but I a sure they are right, and then I managed to wiggle that bad boy up in there and up against the RT mount, which if I am perfectly honest took a few blows of 'convincing' to get to line up. But I squeezed it in there. I am without a doubt sure that that diff WILL not move, ever. LIke never ever.

    So then all went very quickly. Starting assembling things and everything is going VERY smoothly….




    UNTIL



    nobody mentioned that the driveshaft coupler on my driveshaft does not have at the same bolt pattern as the STI Diff. I took my impact and took off the huge nut holding the yoke on to the Datsun Diff and it came off with about 10 seconds of impact beating it down.

    Then it hit me. What if the STI diff has a different number of splines. Tricky problem if my Datsun Yoke will not thread onto the splines of the STI diff.


    EDIT:

    Did some Net digging and apparently the input yoke (or companion flange) for the driveshaft is interchangeable between the Datsun and STI.

    HUZZAH, I do not have to take it back out.
    Last edited by Zedyone_kenobi; 11-22-2013 at 03:21 PM.
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    Now with 100% more DATSUN SPIRIT L28 Power
    1968 Datsun 2000 SRL311-03416

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    Yep,
    I guess you just missed that fact about the flange. That's what makes the swap so sweet!
    As far as the RT mount, everyone seems to have experienced the same thing as far as the tight squeeze. I had to beat mine into submission also!!

    Now my car has the T-5 trans(borg Warner from the ZXT) and the flange will not change out from the r200 diff, so I had to have the Subby flange redrilled to match the DS(PITA)
    Steve
    71 240z,bw-5sp 2.4-40 over,balanced,e-88,big valves,ported&polished, stage2,header, triple Mikuni's 40's
    3.90 Subaru STI LSD

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    I totally missed it… but then again, I did not go to hybrid and read a word before I tried this…I just new the R180 was an easy swap and I figured I would wing it!

    I just have to swap out flanges, but I think I may have to do it quirky, as I already filled the diff to the appropriate level…

    Oooops.
    1971 240Z HLS30-38691
    93.9% done and getting better every day
    Now with 100% more DATSUN SPIRIT L28 Power
    1968 Datsun 2000 SRL311-03416

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    Might want to read the directions first-
    Steve
    71 240z,bw-5sp 2.4-40 over,balanced,e-88,big valves,ported&polished, stage2,header, triple Mikuni's 40's
    3.90 Subaru STI LSD

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    Quote Originally Posted by madkaw View Post
    As far as the RT mount, everyone seems to have experienced the same thing as far as the tight squeeze. I had to beat mine into submission also!! )
    Heh, I got mine from Brian at TechnoVersions and it fit the best I've ever seen a part fit on anything. I test fit it before cleaning everything up and it didn't slide in, but after I brushed the road grime off it was sittin' pretty. I bet an extra layer of paint or two would've added too much thickness.
    1973 240Z w/ roundtop carbs, 280zx e12-80 distributor, 280zx alternator, late model Altima junkyard electric fans. 115 Blue Metallic & white side stripes.

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    Good move, also feel how much easier the subaru diff turns compared to your old diff, less drivetrain losses.

    I've got a 4.44 plated subaru r180 LSD to go in mine with the beta motorsports output shafts, combined with the s14 gearbox it should be a nice combo.

    Good thread

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