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Thread: HellFire Status & release date annouced

  1. #101
    Boat Anchor Repairman Captain Obvious's Avatar
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    Lenny, Was just thinking about you today and wondering when you might start to find time in the shop again.

    So you say that Bob's AFM has an offset that would make his car run rich? Couple questions...

    First, you're talking about an offset in the "airflow to resistance curve" right? Bob's takes less air than normal to move the vane? (Mechanically speaking, he's got a spring loose?)

    Second, you've measured enough AFM's to be able to spot an outlier? If so, that's fantastic! That means you've got enough data to identify what "normal" looks like???

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    Captain,

    Bob's definitely got a spring loose. However, his AFM offset is primarily because the wiper is mechanically shifted on the carbon track so even at rest it can't show a small enough airflow to the ECU, so the ECU then meters too much fuel (particularly at idle). I see this in the data, I see it fuel my car poorly at idle (rich of course), and Bob (rcb280z) was reporting the same thing.

    The curve on the AFM actually isn't too far off. He did some spring adjusting and got it really close in the upper RPMS by of course loosening his spring (way to go Bob), but with that offset, there would have been no way to get it back perfect. Idle is where the problem is. He would have failed smog with this one for sure!

    As for knowing what "normal" looks like. I'm not there yet, & I'm still kinda going in circles, but the circles are getting smaller. Once I play with my flowbench some more and begin to trust it's numbers, I'll bring in a factory calibrated unit and check my work. I have a buddy with an "in" at Oreilys and he can get me one to play with for a few hours without actually have to BUY a new one. I'll only need it for 30 mins. I hate to just buy one to confirm what I already know....in theory.

    Len
    77 280z - test vehicle
    HellFire L28 digital ECU replacement janitor.

  3. #103
    Registered User CG240Z's Avatar
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    Glad to hear some updates and progress is still being made! I'm still staying tuned in.
    1978 280Z (Current Project) (Bought from original owner)
    (6/70) 240Z (In the family since 1973) (Project currently on hold)

    Car's instagram: @eleanorz_78

    "It's the Dodge Viper of 1970, in Japan"

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    I'll be watching this! Great idea! ! !

    I know you're busy with the new little one, but looking forward to updates!

  5. #105
    Registered User rcb280z's Avatar
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    Wow, how did I miss these updates?! Hey Len, I figured I was close but not close enough. Its good to know you see the same thing. Any closer at getting it right? I was thinking, if you have it ready I could put it in my Z and loan you the one that I passed smog with so you would have the "calibrated" readings. Let me know if that would help.

  6. #106
    Registered User CG240Z's Avatar
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    Glad to see some activity on this thread. I was starting to look into mega squirt because I thought this project was on permanent hiatus due to kids. My stock FI doesn't like my cam and it creates some questionable performance sometimes.

  7. #107
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    Hi All,

    Sorry for the slow/non-existant updates. I've been playing with the new baby & friend/family projects have been needing my attention when I did have some free time this summer. I had seriously forgotten how much time a cute baby can occupy. Of course, my older boys have been blowing engines, & 4 wheeling in the creek...with the car! It seems to never stop.

    I've been slack on HellFire progress, but it's still on like Donkey Kong. I have 10 prototypes built up and ready to send out once I get some code finished up. (primarily bootloader code and AFM calibration numbers). Capt. O and I did some brainstorming on the phone a few days ago on a good plan to get an accurate picture of the AFM. I just need to get my test setup wired up and run some more numbers. Look for some good data within 2 weeks. If not, start blowing up my email/PM on why I'm loafing.

    Len

    Len
    77 280z - test vehicle
    HellFire L28 digital ECU replacement janitor.

  8. #108
    Boat Anchor Repairman Captain Obvious's Avatar
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    The garage is calling. The mice want company too.

  9. #109
    Z geek at large FastWoman's Avatar
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    My Z stands ready for action! I just finished ticking off a major project, so I think I'll have some time for ECU stuff in weeks to come. Looking forward to it!
    My last three sports cars while I still owned all three:

    2001 BMW Z3 Roadster 3.0i soft/hard top (sold)
    1966 Ford Mustang Coupe (sold)
    1978 Datsun 280Z (enjoying very much )

  10. #110
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    Hey! Glad to hear from you Len! Now get back to work!! joking of course.
    1978 280Z (Current Project) (Bought from original owner)
    (6/70) 240Z (In the family since 1973) (Project currently on hold)

    Car's instagram: @eleanorz_78

    "It's the Dodge Viper of 1970, in Japan"

  11. #111
    Registered User mjr45's Avatar
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    Len, I'm in serious need of the Hellfire!! Have fun with the kids then do other stuff.
    75 280Z almost done
    49 Chevy 3100 p/u next project
    96 Dodge 2500 4X4 tows my 5th wheel

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    Time for an update & some pics. Don't get too excited, I'm still mucking about with the AFM and flow bench pulling some numbers, but it's somewhat interesting so here are the pics. The first is my 3d printer making an adapter/bushing for the Infinity Q45 MAF Sensor. These are $30 new from Ebay and I think will be handy two ways.

    1. As a research tool, it's another sanity check on calibration of the AFM. My flowbench gives a number, this MAF gives a number, and the AFM gives a number. In theory, they should all agree. That's what I'm studying currently.

    2. In production, it would make a good choice for an aftermarket MAF if someone doesn't want to pay to get their AFM rebuilt or buy a new one. This MAF is cheap and easy to secure and the HellFire will ship with the calibration already in place for this model. You can of course use any MAF you drag up from anywhere, but this one would be a drop in.

    The second pic is of the flow bench test setup. You can see the AFM (it's actually Bob's, he make recognize it & I left out the copy of today's paper as I'm sure he thinks I have it kidnapped. ) at the start of the airflow then onto the Infinity MAF using the adapter I printed, then down into the flow bench. Inside the flow bench is a calibrated orifice that I measure pressure drop across. All of the measurements of course are done with the HellFire board itself. The user calibration feature of the GUI makes it easy for me to drop in any kind of sensor and just type some numbers into a spreadsheet to scale/calibrate it. The MAF is read directly on the channel that in the stock world is the AFM reference signal as we don't use/need that reference. To measure the PSI drop across my flowbench orifice I had to scab on another differential pressure sensor and blue wire it's output to the EGO monitor.

    Now, I just need to find some more time to measure/test/measure/test...ect.

    Len

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    77 280z - test vehicle
    HellFire L28 digital ECU replacement janitor.

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    Oh, I forgot to add that an quicker way to reach me instead of PMS (I've not been checking in that often) is to hit me at superlen*hellfireproducts.com. The webpage is just a hello world, but the email is all functional.

    Len
    77 280z - test vehicle
    HellFire L28 digital ECU replacement janitor.

  14. #114
    Registered User rossiz's Avatar
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    how very cool!!

    i've been looking forward to progress - love hearing the process.
    '78 280z - Daily driver/work in progress...

  15. #115
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    Hey Len,

    Thanks for the progress update. Your not the only one suffering from too many things to do and not enough time to do them:

    Chas
    Chas
    5/77 280Z HLS30 403100 with some modifications
    Original colour: 305 Light Blue. The PO changed it to Red

  16. #116
    1978 280Z (stock) TomoHawk's Avatar
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    After I get the HEI stuff working, I'd like a Hellfire (I think?)

    But in the meantime, can your 3-D printer build me a brunette, say 5-9, with blue eyes?
    Drive Responsibly.
    enjoy classic Rock music.

  17. #117
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    Nice update Len, glad to hear the progress. That's also funny you mention HEI TomoHawk. Yesterday I wired in a GM HEI with a MSD coil and now I have no spark. So that's today's project.
    1978 280Z (Current Project) (Bought from original owner)
    (6/70) 240Z (In the family since 1973) (Project currently on hold)

    Car's instagram: @eleanorz_78

    "It's the Dodge Viper of 1970, in Japan"

  18. #118
    1978 280Z (stock) TomoHawk's Avatar
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    I don't think I want to wait for the ignition box to fail in the middle of no-where to change it out. The hellfire system might be a nice upgrade to the "NLA" control unit.
    Last edited by TomoHawk; 10-02-2014 at 02:47 PM.
    Drive Responsibly.
    enjoy classic Rock music.

  19. #119
    Z geek at large FastWoman's Avatar
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    Good to see you're still amongst the living and making progress! Nice play toys, Len!
    My last three sports cars while I still owned all three:

    2001 BMW Z3 Roadster 3.0i soft/hard top (sold)
    1966 Ford Mustang Coupe (sold)
    1978 Datsun 280Z (enjoying very much )

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    hellfire and brimstone! this has turned into one big project.

    can you release a few bare bones boxes so that some of us can do our own tweaking?

  21. #121
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    If you have any questions for Len I would suggest emailing him at the above email address.

  22. #122
    Boat Anchor Repairman Captain Obvious's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TomoHawk View Post
    in the meantime, can your 3-D printer build me a brunette
    So... What would you little maniacs like to do first?

  23. #123
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    All of the above.
    Drive Responsibly.
    enjoy classic Rock music.

  24. #124
    Registered User siteunseen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Obvious View Post
    So... What would you little maniacs like to do first?
    Bill Paxton as Chet! My favorite movie of the 80s.
    1972 240Z #918 New Sight Orange
    1977 280Z #305 Light Blue Metallic
    1972 240Z #110 Persimmons Red

  25. #125
    Boat Anchor Repairman Captain Obvious's Avatar
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    Haha!! I was wondering if someone was going to catch that one, as it was admittedly a little obscure!

    Gold stars and a new 5 1/4 floppy for you!!
    Last edited by Captain Obvious; 10-03-2014 at 07:24 PM.

  26. #126
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    OK, how about starting small then... with a puppy.

    Drive Responsibly.
    enjoy classic Rock music.

  27. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by superlen View Post
    1. As a research tool, it's another sanity check on calibration of the AFM. My flowbench gives a number, this MAF gives a number, and the AFM gives a number. In theory, they should all agree. That's what I'm studying currently.
    The results will be very interesting. People have built MAF conversion kits for other brands, like BMW, but nobody has really quantified the benefits. It seems like the MAF should have better resolution at the high flow end, allowing better fuel supply control. I get the impression that the vane-type systems just add lots of extra fuel at the high end because when the vane is pushed open large air volume changes only cause small vane movements. If you could compare that between the two, and response rate to opening the throttle, that would be very cool. Pulsing of the signal would seem likely with the vane system also, something I believe the weight and the balance chamber were intended to damp.
    1976 280Z, with some minor modifications

  28. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by TomoHawk View Post
    OK, how about starting small then... with a puppy.

    Pervert
    1972 240Z #918 New Sight Orange
    1977 280Z #305 Light Blue Metallic
    1972 240Z #110 Persimmons Red

  29. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by CG240Z View Post
    Nice update Len, glad to hear the progress. That's also funny you mention HEI TomoHawk. Yesterday I wired in a GM HEI with a MSD coil and now I have no spark. So that's today's project.
    I did mine with a HEI module in the TIU housing and a Petronix Flame thrower II (0.6 ohm) coil. Working perfect since day one. Very happy with it. You sure you wired it correctly? If its under the hood, did you disconnect the plug at the TIU? It could be messing with the HEI module. I have a thread on the mod here. If you need more detailed photos, let me know.
    Chas
    Chas
    5/77 280Z HLS30 403100 with some modifications
    Original colour: 305 Light Blue. The PO changed it to Red

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