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Thread: New to this forum! Does anybody have any Bilstein inserts for 240z?

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    Registered User Steve Edrington's Avatar
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    Default New to this forum! Does anybody have any Bilstein inserts for 240z?

    Does anybody ever come across any Bilstein inserts for 240z anymore?

    I am in search of a full set front/rear. I had a set of Bilstein rears back in the 80's and I loved them. At one point I thought there were shorter ones available that would fit with a spacer in the bottom?

    I'm also looking for stiffer springs, but not too stiff. Any suggestions?

    I don't really want to do coilovers, or cut my struts, and I'm not racing, but want something stiffer than stock. Right now I'm running 225/60/14 on my old slot wheels and getting tire rub in the back when hard bumps or cornering happens.

    Thanks,
    Steve

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    I have not come across any Bilsteins during my searching for shocks. I ended up with Tokico Illuminas I had to source from a private party since they weren't being sold new at the time I was looking (about one year ago). You may be able to find used Bilsteins somewhere but as far as I know they haven't been available for years.

    I also found that all available aftermarket springs, while stiffer, will lower the car somewhat from stock, which won't help you.

    What's the width and offset of your slots?
    Brian
    73 240Z HLS30-151534

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    Do you have any feedback on the Tokico ILK252 or HPK251 Suspension kits?

    I think a lot of my problem is bad KYB inserts just squatting too much in the rear, but I might be interested in some stiffer springs while I'm there changing the inserts. I am not impressed with the KYB's, the warranty, or the KYB support people at all

    So correct me if I'm wrong, but stiffer springs, while lowering it, with stiffer inserts, should reduce my travel, therefore reduce the squat in the rear, and no more rub - right? These Tokico look to be about the only real option left, but I don't want to get into a whole changing of other suspension items because of the lowered springs. Am I opening a can of worms here?

    My setup is 225/60/14 tires on old 6 or 7 inch slots, don't know the offset. I've had them for 34 years!

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    Changing shocks and/or springs to avoid tire rubbing seems off. You're giving away suspension quality to avoid a noise. Do they rub on the outside or the inside? New control arm bushings might do the trick if they rub on the inside. Or you might roll the fender lips a little, if they rub on the outside.
    1976 280Z, with some minor modifications

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    This has been a looonggg restore, just now back on the road. These rub on the outside rear when hard cornering or 2 people are in the car with a bump or cornering. I'm definitely not 160lbs anymore, so more weight too. I used to have a set of Bilstein gas in the rears, they were great and stiff, and as I remember they even raised my ride height some from stock back then. These KYB's I installed new several years ago, so they've just been sitting and not used while restoring the car, but they have a bad spot on one of the fronts, and with the rear squatting...

    I don't have the receipts when I bought them 8 years ago, so according to KYB - too bad.

    I've replaced all my suspension bushings thru this restore, and used urethane where appropriate.

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    If you want Bilsteins, I think the ones you want are P30-0032. I know of one person over here that used them a few years back and Im pretty sure that was the type he used. I have read somewhere that you also need to machine the gland nut that comes with them to get it to fit the strut.

    As for springs. To get the original ride height a lot of Zed owners go for the 80-85 corvette springs and cut them to suit. They are close to aftermarket springs in stiffness.
    If you go with aftermarket springs, they all seem to drop the ride height at least an inch. You can compensate this on rear of a 240 or 260Z by changing other to the 280Z strut insulator. It will increase ride height by about 25mm (1") and bring it back to original.

    Here is a thread on Hardways atempts at getting his ride height back to roiginal height with corvette springs. Even if you don't want to go this route, it wouldn't hurt to read through it and maybe get a though pointers along the way.
    http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/s...de-height.html

    Chas
    Chas
    5/77 280Z HLS30 403100 with some modifications
    Original colour: 305 Light Blue. The PO changed it to Red

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    Guidance on rolling the fender lips? My worry would be cracking of the paint...

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    I just found the thread (Fenril) on HybridZ. The gland nut is for the VW so it needs to be modified to fit the Zed.
    Need Help to fit Bilstein P30-0032 on my 280z... - Brakes, Wheels, Suspension and Chassis - HybridZ

    If you google biltstein P30-0032 or the new number 24-184530 you will find them.
    Chas
    Chas
    5/77 280Z HLS30 403100 with some modifications
    Original colour: 305 Light Blue. The PO changed it to Red

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    Have you considered going to Koni shocks on the fronts and rears? They will give you the stiffness you want and you may not have to change your springs. I've used them on my 1971 240Z for over 42 years and only changed all four once.

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    Back when I had Bilstein's on the rear, I had Koni's on the front. Never had a problem with them as I recall...
    Any advantage/disadvantage to gas inserts (Tokico) vs hydraulic (Koni)?
    Looks like the Tokico HP and the Illumina are about the only choices on gas, any comments on either of these?

    Very disappointed in the KYB gas that has literally been sitting until now.

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    If you put poly bushings on the rear control arms they may be contributing to your rubbing. Swap them out for the original rubber bushings and your ride quality will vastly improve. You won't hear any squeeking noise either. As far as gas vs. hydraulic I believe you've already answered your question. Hydraulic is the way to go. There was a reason why Koni's were the "go to" shocks for Zcars in the early 70's. They are more expensive than any of the others but well worth it.

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    Ride quality is not bad, just getting the rear squatting too much on hard cornering and bigger bumps.
    Noise level is good, no squeaking. I'd have to look again to see what bushings are there, been a couple years during the restore.

    Thanks for the info!

    Steve

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    No offense, but you might have some misconceptions about the shocks and other parts. The gas in the shocks is there to keep a dry, inert head over the fluid to help keep the oil from foaming. They're called gas "charged". Any lifting the pressurized gas does is secondary to its main purpose. All of the shocks are hydraulic.

    Not sure what you're saying about the KYB's. Brand new KYB's can be compressed by hand. There's not much pressure in them. And who wants to take back three year old inventory?

    erectorset's point about the urethane bushings is probably true, but for a reason a performance oriented person might not appreciate. The rubber bushings will let the body sway out away from the tire more in a turn. Urethane might hold it where it should be and that could allow a rub during compression.

    I think that the only decent bolt-in shock available these days is the KYB. You might be able to get Tokico's but you'll need to buy extra parts or fabricate spacers and/or gland nuts. The others all seem to require some fabrication.
    1976 280Z, with some minor modifications

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    The poly bushings on my 71 240Z caused the car to bottom out over speed bumps and pot holes. The rubber bushings solved this problem. The Koni shocks I am recommending are adjustable and, if one has the patience to keep adjusting them, you can arrive at the ride that feels the best for you.

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    Zed - thanks for the info on shocks, and you're right, I have misconceptions about how that works with shocks.
    erectorset - thank you for the good info, I will check that out.

    Thanks everyone!

    Steve

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    I believe Arizona Z Car has Springs that are stock height.
    http://www.arizonazcar.com/springs.html

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    I recently got new P30-0032 Bilsteins (VW Rabbit) for my Z, along with new gland nuts that fit. Search HybridZ, the info is in there somewhere. I know I posted the part numbers and source in my build thread, "Leon's Other 260Z". Looks like the HBZ server is down right now so I can't link you...
    2/74 260Z

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    I called Arizona Z a few days ago, he does not have them any more, just hasn't removed them from his site.

    Steve

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    Leon,
    Found your thread on the parts, is it the B4-B30-U232B1 part number for the proper gland nuts?
    I have stock strut housings, can you enlighten me on what you did for the spacers for the front and rear?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Edrington View Post
    Leon,
    Found your thread on the parts, is it the B4-B30-U232B1 part number for the proper gland nuts?
    I have stock strut housings, can you enlighten me on what you did for the spacers for the front and rear?
    Yes, that's the gland nut P/N. AJUSA was able to source them for me and were awesome to deal with. Another HBZ member recently bought the same stuff and they were able to get it all for him. Hurry, the inserts may still be on sale @ $132/ea! I have not installed them yet and have heard that you may need to slightly shave down the threaded portion of the gland nut in some cases.

    If you don't plan to lower your car much, you can use the stock housings. All you need to do is take the appropriate measurements and cut a 1.5" OD pipe to use as a spacer, such as what Tokico does for their rear inserts.
    2/74 260Z

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    I don't plan to lower it much. The spacer goes in the bottom of the strut - correct?

    In my mind, I'm thinking that rear springs with a higher just to offset more weight compared to stock.
    Any suggestions for a cheap solution on the rear springs? Even if it's off another Z year, I would prefer close to stock height, but more spring rate, but not too much so that it's a jarring uncomfortable ride.

    I've heard of 280ZX springs and maybe cutting them?

    What I don't want to get into is all the stuff to offset geometry by lowering the car. This is my 03/70 Z car that I've owned for 34 years, and I'm not going to race it, just fun drives that when I want to get on it, it will perform properly.

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    Your getting deeper in to the morass. Here's one that people seem to like. The main difficulty is that there may be some trial and error involved to get it where you want it. People start high and work their way down.

    http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/s...de-height.html

    It looks like there may be some original spring stock still out there at the Nissan warehouses. They shows up as available but you don't know until they try to get them.

    Datsun 240Z/260Z/280Z Front Suspension (Strut & Shock Absorber)

    SPRING FRO :: Nissan Parts, NISMO and Nissan Accessories - Courtesyparts.com

    There is a new option, using Vogtland springs and Stagg shocks, but it's a lowered setup.

    Your geometry will only change if you lower it a bunch. It's common to lower these cars about 1 - 1.5" with no problems.

    This shop might be your best bet, considering everything. He really knows the cars and has used parts that don't show on his web page. He restores cars. Worth a phone call. 240Z, 260Z, & 280Z #'s 1,2,&3 - 70-73 240 Z=1 - Steering and Suspension 1 - Suspension 1 - Z Specialties Online Store - If we don't have it in stock, we can get it!

    And, although you feel like you've been burned by KYB, they do make a good product for stock height applications. You're just hurting your own cause by avoiding them.
    1976 280Z, with some minor modifications

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    Quote Originally Posted by EuroDat View Post
    If you want Bilsteins, I think the ones you want are P30-0032. I know of one person over here that used them a few years back and Im pretty sure that was the type he used. I have read somewhere that you also need to machine the gland nut that comes with them to get it to fit the strut.

    As for springs. To get the original ride height a lot of Zed owners go for the 80-85 corvette springs and cut them to suit.
    Here is a thread on Hardways atempts at getting his ride height back to roiginal height with corvette springs.

    Chas
    Pretty sure you mean "Chevette" springs. Pretty much the same car, right?
    -----------------------------------------
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    73 240Z HLS30 149331
    69 510 PL510 77603

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    Quote Originally Posted by zKars View Post
    Pretty sure you mean "Chevette" springs. Pretty much the same car, right?
    Ooeps. Hey Jim, at least someone is reading my posts
    Chas
    Chas
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    Original colour: 305 Light Blue. The PO changed it to Red

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    What was that old line in Mr. Mom: "220/221 - whatever it takes"

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    I'm glad Zed cleared up the issue of hydraulic vs. gas shocks. All conventional dampers are hydraulic. They use a piston moving through a fluid (oil) to generate a damping force. The faster the piston moves through the fluid, the greater the generated force. That's why you can articulate the damper by hand - all you're doing is slowly moving the piston through the fluid. This does not indicate the shock is bad. You wouldn't be able to cycle the shock by hand very quickly because the damping force generated would be too high.

    The "gas-charge" also works the way Zed explained. Imagine the piston whipping up and down through the fluid as you drive over a rough surface. The oil would cavitate, or get loaded up with air bubbles, if not for the high pressure gas charge in the shock. The "secondary" effect of raising ride height is because that pressurized gas acts like a little balloon inside the shock and adds a little bit of spring rate. So you're right that your ride height raised a little back when you installed your gas charged Bilsteins with stock springs.

    Zed made one comment that I do want to correct - he said that the only decent bolt-in shock available these days is the KYB. This was the case until recently, but now that Tokicos are available again, add those to the list. Tokico Illuminas are adjustable at the top of the shock rod, meaning their adjustment is accessible just by popping the hood, or opening the hatch, and twisting a little knob with a screwdriver. It's super easy and neat to be able adjust your damping almost on the fly. The Tokico HPs are non-adjustable but they also offer a good drop-in option.

    I just finished putting my car back together with Eibach progressive-rate lowering springs and second hand Tokico Illuminas. If I were doing it again now, I'd buy brand new Illuminas since they're available again, and I'd get Vogtland springs because they're a linear rate instead of progressive. This would lower the car by a conservative amount, and not have the odd lower-in-the-rear issue that Eibachs seem to have.
    Brian
    73 240Z HLS30-151534

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Edrington View Post
    Back when I had Bilstein's on the rear, I had Koni's on the front. Never had a problem with them as I recall...
    Any advantage/disadvantage to gas inserts (Tokico) vs hydraulic (Koni)?
    Looks like the Tokico HP and the Illumina are about the only choices on gas, any comments on either of these?

    Very disappointed in the KYB gas that has literally been sitting until now.
    All shocks are gas/oleo. Few shocks are made without a gas charge (e.g., nitrogen). When the 240Z was new they didn't use gas charged oleo shocks (the void area was just air), so the ride height is a bit lower than if you use gas charged oleo shocks with the same springs (e.g., stock springs). There are both low pressure and high pressure gas charges depending the shock you buy.
    Bryan Pilati
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