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Thread: Parking and Interior Light fuse melting

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    Default Parking and Interior Light fuse melting

    I have been sitting/ignoring an electrical problem for some time now, and as of today figured I would take another run at it.

    About a year ago my combo switch was overheating and melted a wire or two and the plastic connector, seeing as rewiring was out of my range I took it in and had a new combo switch/wiring put in.

    Shortly after(if not immediately) I noticed that my parking and interior lights were out. It was a blown fuse.

    Currently: The parking light fuse, after about 15 seconds gets red hot and burns out once the combo switch is turned on to parking lights. I disconnected all the parking and tail lights(and headlights) and flipped the parking lights on the combo switch, the fuse continues to over heat.

    What I noticed was the dimmer switch, does not turn on the dash lights unless turned all the way up, and then the fuse begins to glow red preparing to burn out after a few seconds. If i turn the dimmer switch down just a tiny bit, the dash lights don't dim, they just go completely out, and the fuse does not over heat.
    Also if i unplug the dimmer switch, the parking and tail lights stay on and the fuse does not seem to over heat, I just have no dash lights. I also tried ordering another dimmer switch and replacing it but it is the exact same problem.

    With the steering wheel housing cover off I am also seeing that the green and white wire leading from the combo switch to the 9 pin plastic connector is very hot and started melting the insulation and has slightly warped the 9 pin connector.

    Any thoughts?
    74 260Z

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    Also, I believe the combo switch that is on my Z now came from a 240z, would there be any problem with this? When I was looking at the green/white wire to the combo switch it seems thinner than the green/white wire going away from the combo switch(on the other side of the 9 pin connector)

    Here are some pictures

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    (I dont know if the dimple came from the over heating or if it was already there, how would I replace this one wire?)
    74 260Z

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    The problem is in the dash illumination light section, but it's not the dimmer switch, it's somewhere else. Something in your illumination lamp section went almost short and is hogging current. It's not a dead short, but almost.

    It's not the dimmer itself.
    It's not the parking lights.

    Maybe one of your illumination bulbs in one of your gauges failed short? Could also be the illumination bulb in the hazard switch or the heater face. Maybe ash tray lamp (if you have one - not sure when they added that).

    I'm thinking that either one of your small illumination bulbs went short or you pinched or melted a wire somewhere behind the dash.

    Was everything working fine before you burned up (and then replaced) the first combo switch?

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    One of your side marker lights or turn signal lights may have the ground and power leads reversed causing a short through the light housing to the chassis ground. These wires are often dirty, or painted over hiding their original color.

    I had this happen after having body work down and the mechanic reversed the leads on re-assembly.
    1971 240Z HLS30A 17574 L24-021025

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    I don't think it has anything to do with the parking lights. He said he disconnected all of them and the problem persisted. He also said that he can crank the dimmer all the way down and the fuse doesn't pop.

    It's got to be something powered by the dimmer rheostat.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Obvious View Post
    The problem is in the dash illumination light section, but it's not the dimmer switch, it's somewhere else. Something in your illumination lamp section went almost short and is hogging current. It's not a dead short, but almost.

    It's not the dimmer itself.
    It's not the parking lights.

    Maybe one of your illumination bulbs in one of your gauges failed short? Could also be the illumination bulb in the hazard switch or the heater face. Maybe ash tray lamp (if you have one - not sure when they added that).

    I'm thinking that either one of your small illumination bulbs went short or you pinched or melted a wire somewhere behind the dash.

    Was everything working fine before you burned up (and then replaced) the first combo switch?
    So I disconnected the dash lamp and fasten safety belt light, problem continued, there is no bulb in the hazard switch, just in the choke and defogger and those seem to be fine.
    Is there a way to disconnect the dash lights individually, i pulled the heater face out and cant see how to really get to them at all
    74 260Z

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    **I should also add...
    I dont recall there ever being a dash light problem before this, If I recall correctly the head lights went out. There is a possibility though that this could have been the real problem the whole time, and that the overheating of the combo switch 9 pin connector could have been what affected my headlights as well and the parking/tails may have initially gone unnoticed.

    The rheostat was replaced because the mechanic working on the car thought it was bad for this reason:
    Initially when turning the rheostat instead of controlling the dash lights, it would turn up and down the parking lights.
    When pushing on the rheostat we were able to get the dash lights to flicker on and stay on while pushing against it.
    Now when i turn the rheostat it has no effect on the parking lights or the dash lights until it is turned all the way to max, then the parking lights dim a bit and the dash lights come on and that is when the fuse starts to overheat.
    While under the dash I also noticed when i turn on the dash lights that this comes on(seen in picture) I have no idea what it is or why there is a light in it since i can't seem to see it unless i am under the dash, Also i did try unplugging this and the fuse still heats up.

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    74 260Z

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    hard to tell, can't be sure, but is that the little light that illuminates the cigarette lighter when the headlights/dash lights are on?
    it pokes into the side of the lighter recess in back, i believe on the side closest to the steering column...
    '78 280z - Daily driver/work in progress...

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    The potentiometer would just provide the final path to ground. Each bulb's resistance stops a dead short from happening when the pot. is at zero resistance. So the theory that there's a short in one of your gauge bulb plugs or one of the other bulbs controlled by the pot. seems to fit. It would be a different kind of short, not to ground as usual, but across the intended load. The pot. just completes the circuit.

    It's odd though that you've had two potentiometers that are off-on instead of a gradual resistance. Hard to see how a short in the circuit before the pot. would cause that. Since you can remove the plug, a $3 Radio Shack potentiometer might show something. Maybe you got two bad potentiometers.

    You didn't mention year of car. I added a 1976 picture, but the early cars had some odd wiring schemes.

    Edit - may not change much, but the potentiometer may not actually go to zero resistance. The diagram shows a direct power feed to the pot. itself. So the final resistance in the circuit may be the pot. illumination light itself, if there is one. Or the diagram may be incorrect.

    Edit 2 - the electrical guys already knew this but the above (italics) is wrong thinking, That extra red circuit is just the ground for all of the other lights like the AC.heater controls and cigarette lighter. There are a lot of lights on that potentiometer. Any one of them could be the short.
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    1976 280Z, with some minor modifications

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    Check the sockets on the running lights. They are subject to corrosion.
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    The pot doesn't go OFF-ON instead of gradual. He's got a very low resistance connection somewhere between the output of the pot and ground. That connection is sinking away most of the current through the pot and only a small amount goes through the illumination bulbs because their resistance is higher than whatever is shorted. (Think voltage or current divider between the short and everything else.)

    So when the pot is cranked to full brightness, there's just enough current through the bulbs to get some light out of them even though the improper connection is sucking down most of it.

    But when you start cranking the pot away from full brightness, the current drops and the bulbs go dim. Bulbs are still passing the same percentage of the total current, but it's not enough to glow the filaments.

    Even with the pot turned a little off full bright there's still lots of current flowing through the pot (too much in fact), but not enough to glow the filaments or blow the fuse.

    At least that's my read... Electrical troubleshooting is very hard from afar!

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    I'm glad the good Captain got me thinking. (The thinking part happens rarely.)

    I'm used to diagnosing long distance. The most likely problem is a short around a bulb base in the dash lights. The next likely culprit is in the splices in the dash harness. You could also look at the connectors for the lights on the speedometer and tachometer since the positive and negative pins are next to each other. (Ref page BE-16 of the 260Z FSM)
    Bruce hit it perfectly. The short is bypassing the load on one of the branches of the circuit.

    To trace this down
    1. Get an ohmmeter.
    2. Remove the fuse.
    3. Disconnect all of the gauges except for the speedometer. Also disconnect the illumination for the heater control panel.
    4. Turn the rheostat to the brightest setting.
    5. Measure the resistance from the outside clip of the fuse to ground. It should be high. If it is a couple of ohms or less, inspect the connector, wiring and bulb sockets on the speedometer.
    6. After eliminating the speedometer as the source of the short, plug in the tachometer and measure the resistance from the outside clip of the fuse to ground. It should be high. If it is a couple of ohms or less, inspect the connector, wiring and bulb sockets on the tachometer.
    7. After eliminating the tachometer as the source of the short, plug in the oil pressure/temp gauge and measure the resistance from the outside clip of the fuse to ground. It should be high. If it is a couple of ohms or less, inspect the connector, wiring and bulb sockets on the oil pressure/temp gauge.

    Keep doing that for the ammeter/fuel gauge, clock and illumination on the heater control panel.

    Edit: I missed that this circuit also can go to the radio illumination and hazard switch illumination. Include unplugging those in your diagnostics. Those are on page BE-17.
    Last edited by SteveJ; 10-15-2014 at 02:44 PM.
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    Yup. That's what I'm thinking.

    The thing that worries me the most though is that all of this started after some melties happening. I just hope it isn't melted insulation buried down in the harness somewhere.

    If it's a bulb, even I could probably find it. However, if it's melted and shorted insulation somewhere in the harness, I'd need one of those RF signal sniffers.

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    The first thing to remember when doing the troubleshooting online, Bruce, is the Dr. House philosophy. Patients lie. Mind you, it's lies of omission, but the person with the problem didn't say what modification he/she made or what system he/she was messing with before the problem happened.

    While there is a chance there could be something wrong with the dash harness, the main thing is that there is enough information to say that the GW & RL wires are short circuiting somewhere. The bad thing is that it's a 20A fuse in the circuit to protect wire that I wouldn't want more than 10A going through. I can't say if that's poor engineering on Nissan's part or if the standards for ampacity have changed between when the circuit was designed and now.

    There are splices in the harness, too, where the wiring make the parallel circuit. These splices have a little bit of electrical tape covering them. When I was changing the light sockets on the speedometer on the 260, I used uninsulated splices covered with heat shrink and offset the splices to prevent overlap. I haven't taken apart the dash harness to see if they avoided overlapping splices.
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    Steve, Haha. Yeah, that's one of the things that gives me trouble with distance diagnosis. That and the ability to explain things in a way that others understand. It might make sense in my head, but being able to convey that info without writing a novel is a different story!

    I found the same thing as you did with the buried splices. I'm planning some electrical upgrades (like headlight and starter relays) and have dissected a cadaver engine compartment harness for investigation. They did the same thing there. Splices crimped and taped and then buried in the outer layer of tape. Just hoping the fault isn't buried...

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    boosd,

    SteveJ summed up the problem when he said that the Green/White wire is somewhere shorted to the Red/Blue wire. Problem is figuring out where that short is. Here's one idea that might help track it down:

    Park the car in a dark spot (dark garage or just wait until it's dark out).
    Turn the dimmer control to full dim.
    Turn the combo switch to the first position (turn on the parking lights).
    The parking lights should all be lit and the fuse should not be glowing.

    Then quickly turn the dimmer to full bright and look at your interior illumination lamps. Don't keep the dimmer full bright for long because you're going to pop the fuse or burn something up again. But quickly look at the following:

    speedo
    tach
    water/oil
    amp/fuel
    clock
    lighter
    heater control panel
    radio
    hazard sw

    If you can't look check all of them in a second or two, just turn the dimmer back to full dim and give it a minute or two for everything to cool off. After a cool off period, do it again to check the stuff you didn't check the first time.

    If any of those devices are NOT lit, I'd start there.

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    And I'm not sure if this is the most appropriate place for this, but since it's related...

    While reviewing the wiring diagrams for the 260, I turned up a couple mistakes. I don't know if these are old hat already known issues, but since I'm not the keeper of 260's electricals (Steve?) I thought I would hand off to the experts. Here's a portion of the 260 (manual trans) diagram:


    Here's what it should look like:




    If there is a collective "Problems Found on the 260 Wiring Diagram" thread, this could go there. If there isn't a thread like that already, maybe one should be started? I know I've got at least one other 260 problem that I've discovered.

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    I will look at the dash lights tonight when i get home from work to see if one isnt lighting. I dont know if it is different on other models but my hazard switch doesnt have a light on it, just the defogger, choke, and fasten seat belts. I tried to get to the dash lights and dont see a simple plug, although I am going through the heater face/vents, is there a plug buried further back there or somewhere else, or do i have to pull each gauge out?

    Oh its a 74 260z and nothing was modified before the initial burn up of the combo plug
    Last edited by boosd; 10-16-2014 at 11:14 AM.
    74 260Z

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    The connectors for the lights are the connectors for the gauges. Then there is the socket that attaches to the back of the gauge. I would take pictures, but I'm overworked & have to fix the things my wife is breaking at home.

    Make sure you look at the FSM. I gave you the page numbers.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveJ View Post
    The connectors for the lights are the connectors for the gauges. Then there is the socket that attaches to the back of the gauge. I would take pictures, but I'm overworked & have to fix the things my wife is breaking at home.

    Make sure you look at the FSM. I gave you the page numbers.
    I dont have an ohm meter, but hopefully this works... So far I unplugged Temp/Oil. Gas/Amp. and Clock one at a time, I still have the problem, tonight I will pull the tach plug and then speedometer
    74 260Z

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    Don't forget about the lights in the center stack & center console.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveJ View Post
    Don't forget about the lights in the center stack & center console.
    Pulled defroster, fasten seat belt, choke and heater face flip light, any thing else im missing?

    Tried to disconnect the speedometer and the tach tonight, but I am unable to reach behind either anywhere near a connector or bulb, is there a trick to this or does the dash have to come out?
    Last edited by boosd; 10-17-2014 at 12:43 AM.
    74 260Z

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    I believe you got all of the center stack lights. I never had luck in reaching behind the speedometer & tachometer.

    To pull the speedometer & tachometer (assuming all of the fasteners are in place)
    1. Pull the screw in the top of the bezel.
    2. (Speedometer) Reach behind and unscrew the speedometer cable.
    3. Contort yourself so you can see under the dash and remove the screw that holds the meter to the dash.
    4. Pull the gauge forward through the dash. (Hope you don't have a full dash cap glued on...)
    5. (Speedometer) Use a small screwdriver to loosen the set screw for the trip odometer.

    It's a pain to get the trip odometer cable in place with the set screw tightened when you go to put it back in.
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    Quote Originally Posted by boosd View Post
    I dont know if it is different on other models but my hazard switch doesnt have a light on it, just the defogger, choke, and fasten seat belts.
    I know the 74 was transitional in spots, but according to the wiring diagram, your hazard switch DOES have a light on it. Either your bulb is burned out, your connectors are corroded, or maybe that's where your problem is originating.

    And about the other three... Defogger, Choke, and Seat Belts? None of them are controlled by either the dimmer or the combo switch. All three of those will always be full bright when their respective switch is turned on regardless of the position of the dimmer or combo switch. For example, the CHOKE indicator will come on full bright anytime the choke lever is pulled regardless of the combo switch or dimmer positions. Nothing is impossible, but it's unlikely that any of those have anything to do with the problem you are having.

    If I were you, next thing I would do would be to disconnect the hazard switch and see what happens.

    And you've been disconnecting things one at a time and then what? Reconnecting them or leaving them disconnected? If you've been reconnecting them, I wouldn't do it that way. I would disconnect something and leave it disconnected until you get to the bottom of the problem.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveJ View Post
    To pull the speedometer & tachometer
    And the problem BETTER go away once the speedo is disconnected! The dimmer control gets it's wires from the speedo, right? If the speedo is disconnected, so is the entire illumination control circuit?

    So what are you gonna do once everything (except the speedo) is disconnected and the problem still occurs?

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    He gets to pull his speedometer, remove the bulbs and do a continuity check between the G/W & R/L wires. Then with the fuse pulled, he'll do a continuity check between the G/W & R/L wires on the dash harness.
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    Gotcha.

    Step 0 - Buy or borrow a meter.

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    Speaking of interior lamps-

    I've had my last two dome lamp bulbs fail because the filament de-soldered itself on one end. Is that normal? It's a new lamp, and when I replaced the bulb each time, all the metal parts still looked shiny-new! It must be creating a high resistance when the filament gets old and melts the end off.
    Drive Responsibly.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Obvious View Post
    Gotcha.

    Step 0 - Buy or borrow a meter.
    As I described it in another forum, an essential tool for working on cars.
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