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Thread: Chinese Junk rant

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    Default Chinese Junk rant

    Spent a full day chasing my tail helping a friend with his newly imported California series 1. Just when it is tuned and on its way home the "micro" fuel pump fails but still buzzes. Made in China crap. Previously it was working fine. Ended up limping back to my place and scavenging from a few beater mechanical clackers, threw on a G2 filter, and it went on it's way.

    I did improve my method for tuning fuel and balancing carbs so it was not so bad.
    Last edited by Blue; 10-18-2014 at 05:48 PM.
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    OK, not Z related, but Chinese crap related: Night before last, our security alarm kept going off in the middle of the night, until I finally had the sense not to re-arm it. The offending zone was a contact sensor on the garage door. The next day I went to diagnose it. It turns out that the reed switch had a resistance of 29 ohms when closed, and the circuitry to which it was wired couldn't decide whether that was open or closed.

    A reed switch...

    A Chinese reed switch...

    I mean, how do you screw up making a reed switch? It's one of the simplest and most robust designs of switch there is.

    Sadly, all reed switches seem to be made in China, so far as I'm aware. I replaced the offending Chinese reed switch with another Chinese reed switch whose contact resistance is of a fraction of an ohm. We can now set the alarm again without the system going off spontaneously at 4:00 AM. It was a $2 part that wasted one night's sleep and an hour of two of my time.

    I wish we could start making stuff here in the US and Canada again. I'd buy it.
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    Yup that is the problem.

    Watered down metal that oxidizes... it looks like reed switch and feels like a reed switch but it is not.... fake crap.

    I bought a SS knife set for my apt when I worked in NJ. it rusts in the dishwasher.... fake Chinese stainless steel.

    The business model is that the western world and huge Chinese and Indian markets will continually pay low prices for fake junk that may work for a short time but that we are too cheap and lazy to do anything when it fails but to buy another. It is a vicious addictive cycle where huge numbers of small financial transactions continually flow to China. We must all break this cycle or the junk will continue to proliferate just like the phone scammers will keep in business and tells us our internet is broken due to their success from enough fools amongst us to keep them in business.
    There is scarcely anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse, and sell a little more cheaply.
    The person who buys on price alone is this man's lawful prey.


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    Cheap Junk - comes from the "businesses" that buy it from the factory - and resell it in the retail market.
    High Quality - comes from the businesses that buy it from the factory - and resell it in the retail market.

    The truth is that an ever growing number of Americans make their purchase decisions, based not on the quality of the products - but upon the quality of the advertising generating sales. They make their purchasing decisions based on ease of purchase and price.

    Going to Home Depot is "ease of purchase". You can get everything you need in one location. In decades past you might have to go to the Hardware Store, the Lumber Yard, the Electrical Supply Company, the Plumbing Supply Company etc etc - - just to get one small home improvement project done.

    Going to Home Depot instead of Lowes - might be a decision between "ease of purchase" or "lower price". So Home Depot and Lowes are always looking for lower priced items, and they are always building stores in the same towns/locations.

    Bottom Line - it isn't Chinese Junk. As long as price remains the main element in purchasing.

    China is building their own Space Station. In my opinion the highest quality personal computers, smart phones and portable music players - Apples products are almost all made in china. Yes, up front they seem to cost a bit more - but everything I've bought from them has been very reliable and all the hardware has easily out lived the technical life of its software. Because Apple buys high quality Chinese manufactured products - and resells them in the retail market.

    Harbor Freight - plays both sides of the game. Much of what they sell is junk, some of what they sell is actually very high quality. For years now Harbor Freight's "US General" tool boxes have offered quality as good or better than other major manufacturers offerings - at half the price. This while old line, well known products were being made cheaper and cheaper - Sears Craftsman brand has all but destroyed itself by buying Chinese Cheap Junk - instead of buying much higher quality Chinese Products.

    Just like Japan before it - sooner or later - more and more businesses will start to buy high quality products from Chinese Manufacturing Plants - and resell them in the retail market in America.

    So if your fuel pump or security system are cheap junk - call it like it is - list the name of the company that is selling it.

    FWIW,
    Carl B.

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    I have to agree with Carl, it's American greed that dictates how stuff is made. If the vendor says' make it as cheaply as possible' , that's what the Chinese manufacture will do. It's the guy ordering the product that should be setting an assuring the quality of the product.
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    Carl, you raise some good points. And it's certainly worth remembering that Japan was once a purveyor of mostly cheap crap.

    You say that we should speak in terms of the company and not the country, but that's nearly impossible in the case of China. There are zillions of mom-and-pop businesses in that economy, many of whom make parts for brands we might recognize. For instance, I might not hesitate too much to buy a piece of Yongnuo lighting equipment (for photography), but I realize it has scores of components from unknown Chinese sources that could easily fail the same way my reed switch did. Part of the problem is parts that deceive and specs that lie -- for instance canning a 35V-rated electrolytic capacitor in a 50V-labeled can (literally a complete, canned and labeled 35V cap placed into a larger, mislabeled can and sold for more money). I hope Chinese manufacture matures like Japanese manufacture did, but then there will always be another China to feed us cheap crap.
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    China can make smart phones because of american design, german & american processes, western oversight, and german factory automation. Left to their own abilities, corruption, lack of laws, over population, congestion and different values (as a result of communism and gansterism) the products are not the Apple kind but more of a pesticide poisonous apple stuffed with paper and worms made by underpaid workers.

    I do agree that western corporate sell outs and our weak spineless leaders (if you call them that) are also a significant factor.
    There is scarcely anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse, and sell a little more cheaply.
    The person who buys on price alone is this man's lawful prey.


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    Hey the germans are getting in on the cheap is better for profits too. I was shocked when i bought a new beetle. Rivets holding
    the ring gear on, rivets holding the 2 piece flywheel together, plastic interior parts that crack when breathed on, headliners that
    the fabric seperates from the cardboard liner..... and on and on. NOT what i was expecting from previously owning vw's built in the 60's
    and 70's.

    I use the made in china label as a great tool to keep my wife from buying crap that we don't need or will never use. yes she's a shopaholic but that stops her in her tracks EVERY time.

    Alot of those dollars sent to china are coming back as business investment dollars when the chinese business owner decides he has big enough nest egg and fears the govt will take it all
    away eventually in the next purge, he heads to the usa or canada to start a business there.

    Canada did essentially the same thing in 97 when hong kong was handed back to china. Many of
    the smart business owners fled WITH their money and started businesses in canada.

    With whats happening in hong kong now, they are probably really glad they fled.
    Last edited by hr369; 10-19-2014 at 05:11 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue View Post
    China can make smart phones because of american design, german & american processes, western oversight, and german factory automation. Left to their own abilities, corruption, lack of laws, over population, congestion and different values (as a result of communism and gansterism) the products are not the Apple kind but more of a pesticide poisonous apple stuffed with paper and worms made by underpaid workers.
    "Left to their own abilities..." ? You're one small step away from looking like a xenophobic idiot with comments like that.

    The last person I heard coming up with this "..all the Chinese do is copy" and "...we taught them everything they know" stuff was drinking tea from a porcelain cup that was decorated with faux Chinese scenes (it was made by Wedgwood). He was oblivious to the irony.

    I presume you are too?

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    I worked for a Chinese company for 4.5 years.... I saw the anchor babies and the statistical improbability that all first born were male ~ 20 in a row... all born in the USA too. I know business owners whose businesses were taken from them by the Govt. and others who must pay gangsters to leave them alone. The mainland Chinese culture is very different and the formation of people who live within it is different. I resent being called xenophobic as I have good friends all over the world including China. Sadly many had their parents taken from them when they were young by the Govt. The country is one messed up place that worships money and relationships for advancing in the quagmire for the most part... humans, air, water, quality, honesty, law, faking do not matter much. Sadly for us, this environment produces a lot of junk and fake crap that fools us fools.
    There is scarcely anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse, and sell a little more cheaply.
    The person who buys on price alone is this man's lawful prey.


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    Quote Originally Posted by HS30-H View Post
    "Left to their own abilities..." ? You're one small step away from looking like a xenophobic idiot with comments like that.

    The last person I heard coming up with this "..all the Chinese do is copy" and "...we taught them everything they know" stuff was drinking tea from a porcelain cup that was decorated with faux Chinese scenes (it was made by Wedgwood). He was oblivious to the irony.

    I presume you are too?
    Quote Originally Posted by Blue View Post
    I worked for a Chinese company for 4.5 years.... I saw the anchor babies and the statistical improbability that all first born were male ~ 20 in a row... all born in the USA too. I know business owners whose businesses were taken from them by the Govt. and others who must pay gangsters to leave them alone. The mainland Chinese culture is very different and the formation of people who live within it is different. I resent being called xenophobic as I have good friends all over the world including China. Sadly many had their parents taken from them when they were young by the Govt. The country is one messed up place that worships money and relationships for advancing in the quagmire for the most part... humans, air, water, quality, honesty, law, faking do not matter much. Sadly for us, this environment produces a lot of junk and fake crap that fools us fools.
    I hate to see two of our long-standing members quarreling like this. Let's try to set the example and word our posts a bit differently. Thanks.
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    The drywall screws from china leave steel splinters in my hands. Also i am sure you have heard of the mold that grows on there drywall. I got a check for 250 bucks from Lowes because i had bought some. I do like the food.

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    I see people buying stuff at the Dollar Tree like crazy. They don't care about "quality" stuff, and only care about cheap stuff. Nobody bothers reading the packaging these days.

    Almost everything there has "Made in China" on the packaging, but the paper goods (plates, tissue, towels) and food items, and a lot of that stuff is "imported" or "distributed" by an American company. The $1 pocket knife I bought at the Dollar Tree fell apart the first time I tried cutting a box, and I ended up cutting myself.

    You just have to be careful with whatever you buy. READ the packaging or the papers. LOOK at it all over for good design and good manufacturing. Also keep your receipts and warrantee cards for a year, and if you don't really like the product, tell the people who run store where you got it.You might even tell the BBB.
    Last edited by TomoHawk; 10-20-2014 at 11:10 AM.
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    If you think the Chevies made in Detroit had problems, what if they made those in China!?
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    I had a double post here, but why waste a good reply.

    Here's something funny to think about. The people complaining here are the same type that will complain about how expensive and hard-to-get things are when trade with China is tariff'ed down to nothing. That's how business works. The reason we can all run down to the one of three or four auto parts stores , open 'til 8 every night, and pick up a new part for a few dollars is China.

    That's fun to think about.

    Future thread -

    RIPOFF Parts stores. "I went down to the only parts store in town, which is only open 10 -2, and had to pay $10 for my part that used to cost $2. What a rip! Stupid American union workers!!! I'm going to start importing black market parts from China. We need to do something about these overpaid ripoff American companies!"
    Last edited by Zed Head; 10-20-2014 at 11:41 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bpilati View Post
    I hate to see two of our long-standing members quarreling like this. Let's try to set the example and word our posts a bit differently. Thanks.
    Doesn't matter how you word things if you want people to join you in simplistic thinking. I'll bet that G2 filter he threw on there was made in China. Rationalize that.
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    I got sucked in to this conversation, so would like to end with something more constructive, along the lines of the car-based advice we all tend to give to new members. There is no simple solution. You just have to put the work in to get the results. Complaining doesn't get anyone anywhere, and just makes everybody involved feel crappy.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue View Post
    the "micro" fuel pump fails
    Constructive - give us the brand name so that we can avoid the product.

    Nonconstructive - vague generalization about country of origin.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zed Head View Post
    I got sucked in to this conversation, so would like to end with something more constructive, along the lines of the car-based advice we all tend to give to new members. There is no simple solution. You just have to put the work in to get the results. Complaining doesn't get anyone anywhere, and just makes everybody involved feel crappy.
    Also, quality tools are usually purchased once and used for a long time. For instance I have a Fluke multimeter that has held up well for close to 15 years. My brother still has my dad's old Simpson meter (in addition to a Fluke) that has held up great for close to 50 years.

    Maybe a good thread would be to rate parts & tools, especially the quality tools.

    Sometimes the inexpensive can be good, too. I bought new front turn signal lenses and gaskets from Blackdragon Auto. They were much cheaper than the competition, fit well, and gave me no problems. They look really good, too.
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    Fluke Corporation is an interesting example of how the off-shore manufacturing model could work. I bought mine about seven years ago, a lower-end 115 model. I just looked to see if it had any "Made in..." markings but all it says is "Designed in USA". Not Made. It's of very high quality. But it was more expensive than most other options.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zed Head View Post
    Constructive - give us the brand name so that we can avoid the product.

    Nonconstructive - vague generalization about country of origin.

    Knock yourself out. I wasted a day because the car came with this junk:

    http://www.amazon.com/ss/customer-re...=1&*entries*=0


    Last edited by Blue; 10-20-2014 at 12:52 PM.
    There is scarcely anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse, and sell a little more cheaply.
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    Now that you're done kicking the dog, do you think the problem was solely because of the pump quality or was there rust running through it? Why did you install the filter? In other words, do you think a Made in America (or Canada) electric fuel pump would have lasted longer?

    The next level of constructivity would be to suggest a better electric pump. for those that don't have a supply of old mechanical pumps.

    Just trying to end with more information that people can use. Mr. Gasket = bad, what = good?
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    What's got everybodies panties in a bunch? If Blue wants to complain, let him.

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    Well, FAIW, I installed that exact same pump on a Chrysler Marine 318, and it lasted a few years before puttering away. I do think it gave the carb extra life, because I could starve the float bowl when coming into dock and (largely) dry up the carb. Then I could fill the carb again before starting. It was a pretty elegant solution to some of the problems of putting ethanol gas in a carb'ed boat in a drippy-humid climate. In that sense I won't complain too much about the pump. However, it did only last a few years, so it wasn't the most robust product in the world.

    Zed Head, I guess I'm one of the complainers. However, I will actually pay more money, willingly, for a better part. I guess I'm neither a high-bid nor low-bid person. I generally like the middle bid -- reasonable quality at a reasonable cost. What puzzles me, though, is how anyone could screw up the manufacture of a reed switch! I admit to being surprised about that one -- Chinese manufacture or not.

    I'll also clarify that I think the Chinese are perfectly capable of manufacturing a high quality product and frequently do. However, I'm sure anyone will admit that China manufactures a disproportionate share of cheap consumer crap. More disturbing still, much of China's crap exports are counterfeit products -- such as pharmaceutical look-alikes, some with LEAD pigments, that doctors prescribe, that pharmacies buy unwittingly from wholesalers and re-sell, that people put inside their bodies instead of the medications they need to be healthy.

    I mentioned the capacitor issue, BTW, because this is something a Chinese friend of mine is familiar with. His father manufactured electrolytic capacitors in mainland China, and he remembers fondly how his dad would sometimes come home with a bag of caps that they would pop in an open fire like firecrackers. When the startup capacitor went out on his heat pump, he appreciated that I knew where to get an American-manufactured capacitor to replace it. He didn't buy a Chinese capacitor. To me that says a lot.
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    Quote Originally Posted by black gold man View Post
    The drywall screws from china leave steel splinters in my hands. Also i am sure you have heard of the mold that grows on there drywall. I got a check for 250 bucks from Lowes because i had bought some. I do like the food.
    Did you tear down the chinese sheetrock or is it still up?
    If you paid someone to install,tape and texture, that could get expensive real fast.

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    Re Post #10 - there's apparently more to the intent of the thread than just a rant about product quality. It explains my cognitive dissonance though. It can lead to whole separate discussions easily, you can get in to Imperialism, and Isolationism and all kinds of other isms. It can get messy.


    To the quality issue - it would be nice to keep track of what's good and what's bad. I have an Airtex E8312 fuel pump on my car that's worked fine for probably 50,000 miles. With no prefilter. Just saying, there is some good coming from there. (Pretty sure it was made there but not positive).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zed Head View Post
    Now that you're done kicking the dog, do you think the problem was solely because of the pump quality or was there rust running through it? Why did you install the filter? In other words, do you think a Made in America (or Canada) electric fuel pump would have lasted longer?

    The next level of constructivity would be to suggest a better electric pump. for those that don't have a supply of old mechanical pumps.

    Just trying to end with more information that people can use. Mr. Gasket = bad, what = good?

    The series one was in excellent condition. No rust in tank and well maintained. The pump failed but kept buzzing the same way it sounded when it worked. I put the filter in with the clacker for good practice. (The junk Chinese one had a filter so when I pulled it, I pulled its filter too).
    There is scarcely anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse, and sell a little more cheaply.
    The person who buys on price alone is this man's lawful prey.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Zed Head View Post
    Re Post #10 - there's apparently more to the intent of the thread than just a rant about product quality. .

    Nope, it is to rant about Chinese fake crap that wastes our time trouble shooting. They might as well have used a piezo buzzer in a match box with the word "pump" on it.... as it would function the same..... but they have managed to polish turds to better fool us.


    Maybe this will put it in perspective




    Maybe it was faecal bacteria that caused the pump to fail .....but hey its cool though...who could expect more from a place were "everybody tries to swindle everybody else" (quote from vid above).
    Last edited by Blue; 10-20-2014 at 06:32 PM.
    There is scarcely anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse, and sell a little more cheaply.
    The person who buys on price alone is this man's lawful prey.


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  30. #30
    1978 280Z (stock) TomoHawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue View Post
    They might as well have used a piezo buzzer in a match box with the word "pump" on it.... as it would function the same..... but they have managed to polish turds to better fool us.
    That sounds like the $89.00 electric turbochargers you get on eBay.
    Drive Responsibly.
    enjoy classic Rock music.

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    It's awesome bartsscooterservice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue View Post
    Yup that is the problem.

    Watered down metal that oxidizes... it looks like reed switch and feels like a reed switch but it is not.... fake crap.

    I bought a SS knife set for my apt when I worked in NJ. it rusts in the dishwasher.... fake Chinese stainless steel.

    The business model is that the western world and huge Chinese and Indian markets will continually pay low prices for fake junk that may work for a short time but that we are too cheap and lazy to do anything when it fails but to buy another. It is a vicious addictive cycle where huge numbers of small financial transactions continually flow to China. We must all break this cycle or the junk will continue to proliferate just like the phone scammers will keep in business and tells us our internet is broken due to their success from enough fools amongst us to keep them in business.
    I saw a documentary on Chinese mass produced junk destroying the quality market in Europe few days ago. It's true, but what you gonna do about it ? I think nothing personally. I work with Chinese scooters to for my work, but I have to repair them, it's part of my income. They are not that bad, but offcourse things fail quicker, like chrome and buttons and sometimes even structural failures. The engines are pretty good if serviced regulary.
    HLS30 32581, 5/71 Matching numbers

    Jay Leno : You know one week after the Americans have walked on the moon, the Japanese introduced this sports car, and…if you’re a car guy pretty equal. I mean walking on the moon was pretty good, but how many times you’d gonna walk on the moon? But here was an affordable sports car that had real performance and looked like it cost a lot more than it did.

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    If a consumer's primary purchasing criteria is price, the consumer is the problem. Working on vintage Porsche's for last two years has really opened my eyes to that simple truth. There is a large and constant demand for Made in Germany parts for these cars and the customers are happy to pay the prices. When I worked on S30s for 13 years the exact opposite was true. Few customers wanted to pay extra for a Made in Japan part if a US or Chinese made part was available.

    Ball joints are a perfect example. $100 from Nissan for Japanese OEM quality. $30 from Moog made in China with marginal quality. I had exactly 5 customers step up for the Nissan parts that lasted 40 years and only failed because the boot got torn and the previous owners didn't spent the $20 for new boots.

    The problem is us, not China.
    Last edited by John Coffey; 10-21-2014 at 11:30 AM.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by TomoHawk View Post
    That sounds like the $89.00 electric turbochargers you get on eBay.
    Never really took a look at one of those, now that I have, it seems to look a lot like the heat sink / cooling fan for my CPU

    NOT Empty Anymore...

  34. #34
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    I can really see how those things will pressurize your intake system at 5,000RPM.

    OTOH, AUDI is fooling around with these...
    Drive Responsibly.
    enjoy classic Rock music.

  35. #35
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    On the first night of real estate school, went through it with my step mom, caveat emptor "buyer beware" was a phrase I learned and often repeat.

    Working at a restaurant I've also learned you'll get screwed at the drive thru.
    Last edited by siteunseen; 10-21-2014 at 04:11 PM.
    1972 240Z #918 New Sight Orange
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    John, there is not a car enthusiast that is cheaper or more stingy than a Z owner.
    Anyone who parts out a Z will find that out very quickly. I have also owned 3 BMW's and although the machine parts are always excellent the electrical parts are not. I would take Chinese, Japanese or any other countries electricals over German any day .
    Don't you think 'perceived quality' is a big part of Porsche's draw?
    Porsche certainly isn't way up on the customer satisfaction/reliability charts.
    Chris

    Quote Originally Posted by John Coffey View Post
    If a consumer's primary purchasing criteria is price, the consumer is the problem. Working on vintage Porsche's for last two years has really opened my eyes to that simple truth. There is a large and constant demand for Made in Germany parts for these cars and the customers are happy to pay the prices. When I worked on S30s for 13 years the exact opposite was true. Few customers wanted to pay extra for a Made in Japan part if a US or Chinese made part was available.


    The problem is us, not China.
    1970 240Z HLS30 01955 March/70

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    Quote Originally Posted by siteunseen View Post
    "buyer beware" was a phrase I learned and often repeat.
    There's no need. We have "No fault returns" at Walmart, the Chinese arm of the retail market!
    Drive Responsibly.
    enjoy classic Rock music.

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    The draw, according to our vintage Porsche customers, is (are) in no particular order:

    1. Marque history
    2. Beauty/style.
    3. Driving experience
    4. Increasing pricing - in some cases stupidly increasing prices.
    5. Lifestyle.

    Quality never enters into the conversation. Sometimes they talk about engineering brilliance but that's usually from someone who thinks engineering is driving a train.

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    I agree. I saw a documentary about Porsche, and the commentator talked about how bad the 911 was in the turns (while driving mountain switchbacks) until they figured it out. And after seeing numerous Porsches at vintage shows and cruise-ins, I remember about all but a few looked as they went through 50 Cleveland winters. They were dirty and corroded- all but the expensive stereo system and aftermarket leather seats.
    Drive Responsibly.
    enjoy classic Rock music.

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    Quote Originally Posted by John Coffey View Post
    The problem is us, not China.
    100% this!

    they are just being good little capitolists.

    If we choose to buy the Great Neck ratchet instead of the Matco, or Snapon, hell, it is not anybody else's fault.

    I am at a stage in my life where I am very happy to pay for a tool, TV, or whatever of quality.

    Why buy a taurus when you can buy a Smith & Wesson
    Why buy a Great Neck, when you can buy a Snap on
    Why buy coby when you can buy Sony.


    I demand quality now, and I have no issues paying for it.


    I think as you get older you are willing to pay more for two things.

    Quality

    and

    Service.
    1971 240Z HLS30-38691
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    Now with 100% more DATSUN SPIRIT L28 Power
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    I think that as you get older - you are ABLE to pay for higher quality and better service.

    With the disclaimer - - There is no longer the more or less direct correlation between Price and Quality, that there used to be several decades ago.

    Quality is defined by the Customer.

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    That's what I was thinking Mr Beck. I'm just starting to get older and a little wiser with my money.
    1972 240Z #918 New Sight Orange
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    1972 240Z #110 Persimmons Red

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    well that is certainly true, but I have never liked buying junk. I would do without and save my money if I wanted something better, rather than settle for less quality. Now I take things to an illogical extreme.

    I would disagree to some degree. I still think the old saying, "you get what you pay for" is still MOSTLY true.

    You are not garanteed quality by paying more, but the likelihood is far greater you will get quality when you pay more than if you do not.

    It all comes down to what is good, and what is good enough. That varies for every person.
    1971 240Z HLS30-38691
    93.9% done and getting better every day
    Now with 100% more DATSUN SPIRIT L28 Power
    1968 Datsun 2000 SRL311-03416

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    I saw a documentary about Porsche, and the commentator talked about how bad the 911 was in the turns (while driving mountain switchbacks) until they figured it out.
    If you drive a FWD car like you drive a RWD car, you won't get the most out of the FWD car. Same is true for a 356, 911, or 912 driven like you would drive a 240Z. You have to drive to the strengths of the car and not to the strengths of the car you drove before. A well setup Acura Integra Type R, a Datsun 240Z, and a 2.2L Porsche 911 will all lap a race track with identical times given good drivers.

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    I think that motor vehicles will be going the same way soon too. General Motors is building manufacturing plants (11 of them so far) in China, and it really makes you wonder about the quality. A friend just bought a NEW GMC pickup because they couldn't get the engine to run on all 8 cylinders! It only had 4 cylinders working, and it was only a few years old. I wonder where that engine was made.

    I've been telling people for years to write your favorite automaker in Detroit, to insist they make every last part of them in the U.S. There is nothing consumers in the U.S. need that can't be made domestically. Think of how many more people would have jobs, how nice our economy would be...
    Drive Responsibly.
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    I really believe a pickup truck that was 100% domestic would not be purchased because the price would be too high. MSRP on an 014 F-150 is $25k with no options an F-350 is $31,00. Those are bare bones work trucks, not pretty trucks which can easily reach $50k. Would you pay $100K for a new F350? Trucks are already fairly expensive and the 40,50 or 100% premium for American made would be more than consumers could justify. Just my 2 cents...
    Charles

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    I really think that if the domestic manufacturing of parts for things was really in a good pace, then the prices would be reasonable, if not competitive (the large supply=low price relationship)
    Drive Responsibly.
    enjoy classic Rock music.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by TomoHawk View Post
    Think of how many more people would have jobs, how nice our economy would be...
    And here's the problem, business owners have been seeking for cheaper manufacturing because of rising labour costs, production costs, building costs, more rules etc over time, and the most logical reason is to go to low labor cost countries, also because they don't want to loose profits.
    HLS30 32581, 5/71 Matching numbers

    Jay Leno : You know one week after the Americans have walked on the moon, the Japanese introduced this sports car, and…if you’re a car guy pretty equal. I mean walking on the moon was pretty good, but how many times you’d gonna walk on the moon? But here was an affordable sports car that had real performance and looked like it cost a lot more than it did.

  50. #50
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    I suspect a 100% US car would be just as competitive now as it was in 1991 when I bought my 100% US-built Saturn SL2 (well, actually 95%, with a few parts from Canada and a Japanese stereo). The base model (SL1) at that time was selling at about $8500, if I recall correctly. With the nicer DOHC engine, more amenities, electric windows, airbag (driver's side), and ABS, my car rang in at about $14,000. This was in line with Japanese-made prices at the time.

    People do consider quality when buying a car. After all, the Yugo was not a roaring success. I bought the Saturn because the price was reasonable and because I had confidence in the vastly improved American manufacturing standards of recent years. It was actually the service manager of the local dealership who "sold" me the car. He toured me of all the technical features discussing things the sales staff did not understand. I was VERY impressed with how the little car was engineered.

    I own that car to this day, and it's almost an antique. It still runs great. The only time it ever refused to start and run was when the alternator died. Over its long life, I've had to replace an alternator, the A/C (the 134a retrofit now being kapoot again), a wheel hub, one electric window motor, lots of brake pads, a couple of brake calipers, and a few discs, an AACV, the severely corroded wheels (which slowly leaked), a couple of valve cover gaskets, the rotted headliner, oil, and filters, a catalytic converter (the rest of the SS exhaust being original to the car), and I think an EGR valve. It still looks reasonably good. Some kid yelled, "Nice Pontiac!" just the other day. You really can't ask much more than that from a car.

    Would I pay more for a 100% domestic-built car today? Yes. I would have even paid slightly more for my Saturn at the time to support domestic labor. At that time (prior to that purchase), I was primarily a Datsun/Nissan person, with a couple of forays to Toyota and Mazda. However, I felt the American worker needed a boost, and American cars were again up to snuff.
    Last edited by FastWoman; 10-24-2014 at 08:30 AM.
    My last three sports cars while I still owned all three:

    2001 BMW Z3 Roadster 3.0i soft/hard top (sold)
    1966 Ford Mustang Coupe (sold)
    1978 Datsun 280Z (enjoying very much )

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    In all industry and consumer measures, Toyota, Nissan, Mitsubishi, and Mazda vehicles of 1991 were orders of magnitude better quality then the Saturn SL2. Your own personal standards were different, which worked out well for you. But over a larger sample size the Japanese cars of 1991 were designed and built to a much higher quality standard.

    The only reason GM could sell the Saturn at a competitive price to the Japanese was the increasing value of the yen due to the Plaza Accord in 1985. That forced the price of Japanese cars up in relation to the dollar. If the yen to dollar relationship remained as it was in 1985 that 1991 Saturn SL2 would have been $1,650 more expensive then a comparable Accord or Sentra.

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    "But boy, can they fold a shirt."
    Andrew Dice Clay :>)
    Last edited by tlorber; 10-25-2014 at 02:37 AM.
    Tlorber
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