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Thread: SU Reassembly Step-by-Step [Part 1 Tear Down /Torn n Tattered /Worse for Wear n Tear]

  1. #1
    Nova Scotia,Canada,Earth Blue's Avatar
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    Default SU Reassembly Step-by-Step [Part 1 Tear Down /Torn n Tattered /Worse for Wear n Tear]

    Lots of photos so it may take me a day or two to get them all up.

    Here is a step-by-step procedure for reassembling an SU carb.


    Rip it apart and fear not.

    I did not take out the throttle valve plate and shaft because of the peening and I am lazy today. (I'll do a step-by-step on modifying an SU in another post in the future where the shaft is filed).

    Note: I do not have my rebuild kits yet so pretend there are new gaskets




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    There is scarcely anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse, and sell a little more cheaply.
    The person who buys on price alone is this man's lawful prey.


    John Ruskin (1819 - 1900)



    ZCars in Eastern Canada seaport ready for shipment to Europe

    http://ZSportCanada.com


  2. #2
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    Default Part 2 [The Body]

    Some Pics of the SU Carb body:
    Note: I just washed with soapy water, sprayed with carb cleaner, then wire-brushed the outside with a brass wire wheel on a drill

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    The brass bushing around the shaft wears over time and causes a vacuum leak between the shaft and the bushing. You can put a ring of sealant around the rim of hole (but not touching the bushing or shaft) then place a flat round object (like a dime or aluminum disc or rubber disc) over the raised sealant to seal the shaft. Doing this side will cut your vacuum leak to this carb in half.

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    The bushing on this side of the shaft will also leak. Some fittings and linkage that will be installed on the shaft will come close to the body so there is not much you can do to seal this one. Maybe put some concentric O-ring up against the body with some silicone spark plug grease as a lubricant and a very paper-thin washer so that when the linkage presses in, the washer and O-rings will squish and the lube will prevent binding when the shaft turns.

    The correct fix is to install a new bushing. Here is an idea of what you can do with the right tools: http://home.comcast.net/~rhodes/Tech...ng_Reaming.pdf



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    Last edited by Blue; 08-06-2011 at 08:40 PM.
    There is scarcely anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse, and sell a little more cheaply.
    The person who buys on price alone is this man's lawful prey.


    John Ruskin (1819 - 1900)



    ZCars in Eastern Canada seaport ready for shipment to Europe

    http://ZSportCanada.com


  3. #3
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    Default Part 3 [The Piston Lifter Rod]

    This is easy. Just don't loose the weeeeee itty bitty clips.

    Needle nose pliers works fine to pull off; and press on the clips.

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    Here is the lifter rod laying just outside of its home cast in the main body.

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    Use a Scotchbrite or sand paper to remove the rust then grease the shaft.

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    Insert the rod into the body.

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    On the bottom side, install the spring then attach the clip retainer.

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    Works fine.
    Last edited by Blue; 08-06-2011 at 08:48 PM.
    There is scarcely anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse, and sell a little more cheaply.
    The person who buys on price alone is this man's lawful prey.


    John Ruskin (1819 - 1900)



    ZCars in Eastern Canada seaport ready for shipment to Europe

    http://ZSportCanada.com


  4. #4
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    Default Part 4a [The Jet Assembly]

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    Here are all the parts in relative order.

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    Firmly grasp the nozzle sleeve. (No I am not pink! I used colour enhancement and it enhanced me (fingers) too.)

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    Install the washer on the neck of the sleeve. Some grease is a good thing.
    NOTE: The washer is on the wrong side in this picture. It goes under the sleeve.

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    Slide the Nozzle Sleeve Set Screw onto the sleeve

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    Install the large washer behind the Nozzle Sleeve Set Screw. Apply grease.

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    Install the Idle Adjust Spring behind the large washer. Apply grease.

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    Install (by screwing) the Idle Adjust Nut. Grease between the spring and the nut will make adjustments easy to do.

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    Here is where it goes at the bottom of the body. Antiseize on the threads is a good idea.

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    Test fit by hand tightening the Nozzle Sleeve Set Screw


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    Here it is in place. As you can see it is not automatically centered.
    Last edited by Blue; 08-06-2011 at 09:13 PM.
    There is scarcely anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse, and sell a little more cheaply.
    The person who buys on price alone is this man's lawful prey.


    John Ruskin (1819 - 1900)



    ZCars in Eastern Canada seaport ready for shipment to Europe

    http://ZSportCanada.com


  5. #5
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    Default Part 4b [The Horse's Mouth]



    The washers are not shown in this.





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    Last edited by Blue; 08-06-2011 at 09:16 PM.
    There is scarcely anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse, and sell a little more cheaply.
    The person who buys on price alone is this man's lawful prey.


    John Ruskin (1819 - 1900)



    ZCars in Eastern Canada seaport ready for shipment to Europe

    http://ZSportCanada.com


  6. #6
    Registered User Travel'n Man's Avatar
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    Default

    Great write up!
    Life's a journey; enjoy the ride!

    Mitchell
    L28 - N42 Block w/Flat tops - N42 Rebello Head & Cam - Triple 40 PHH Mikuni's - Headers - Recaro Seats -
    R180 3.9 Diff - Close Ratio 5 Speed - Toyota Vented Brake Upgrade w/ Porterfield High Performance Pads & Shoes

    1972 Datsun 240z
    HLS30-75040


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    Default Part 5 [The Suction Chamber] Oh Behave!

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    Reference: Suction Piston


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    Reference: Piston bottom.
    Note the centre groove and the two holes on each side of it as well as the needle hole in the centre.
    Note 2: The black insert next to the needle is an inserted stand-off that prevents the piston from sealing against the bridge. This and the centre groove allow air to flow across the bridge when the piston is down

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    Reference: Piston front with guide groove

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    Reference: Top of piston.
    Note the oil well and two holes on each side of it in the floor.

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    Insert plastic/nylon washer over oil well and push to bottom

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    Insert Spring. Ensure it surrounds the washer and is centered.

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    Reference: Suction Chamber.
    Note the passage in the top front. This points away from the motor when installed.


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    Reference: Inside the suction chamber

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    Reference: Oil plunger assembly

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    Oil plunger installed
    Last edited by Blue; 08-07-2011 at 08:39 AM.
    There is scarcely anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse, and sell a little more cheaply.
    The person who buys on price alone is this man's lawful prey.


    John Ruskin (1819 - 1900)



    ZCars in Eastern Canada seaport ready for shipment to Europe

    http://ZSportCanada.com


  8. #8
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    Default SU Suction Chamber Reference [Horses Mouth Again]





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    There is scarcely anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse, and sell a little more cheaply.
    The person who buys on price alone is this man's lawful prey.


    John Ruskin (1819 - 1900)



    ZCars in Eastern Canada seaport ready for shipment to Europe

    http://ZSportCanada.com


  9. #9
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    Default Part 6 [Nozzle Alignment]

    You can build your own alignment tools here:




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    Fit alignment pin to piston. (use grease in the hole).

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    Install piston and chamber.

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    Here is where the tool aligns the Nozzle Sleeve. Note the sleeve is loose at this point and can move.

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    Strange photo... note that the 4 (3) rusty screws that hold the chamber are all evenly tensioned to just less than snug (see the lock washers are not compressed). This is how you want the chamber attached for the next step.

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    To align the chamber, spin it Counter Clock Wise (CCW) to full stop, then spin it CW. Note the limits and try to set the chamber in the middle of these.

    Continue to tighten evenly like car wheel lug nuts... opposites.

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    You can now lift and drop the piston. It should rest flat on the bridge. Here is a photo with no flash showing the piston on the bridge. The only light is from the two hole cut in the piston's bottom (due to the dome removed) and a razor thin gap between the bridge and the piston bottom (due to the inserted stand-off mentioned above). Normally you can see through the grove in the piston bottom but the alignment tool is installed and blocks the light.

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    Here is how to tighten the Nozzle Sleeve Set Screw. A thin walled 19mm socket with a T handle will work even better.

    Note: If you only have a stock needle to align with, install it as well as the nozzle then tighten the Nozzle Sleeve Set Screw slowly. When doing this, hold the carb vertically and move the piston up and down ensuring it hits the bridge and the needle does not bind against the nozzle.

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    The Nozzle and the alignment tool are same outside diameter.

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    Here is a shot showing the centered sleeve (left) and the centered sleeve with the nozzle in place.

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    If you want to double check nozzle alignment you can use this second tool that aligns the nozzle and sleeve at the same time.
    Last edited by Blue; 08-07-2011 at 08:42 AM.
    There is scarcely anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse, and sell a little more cheaply.
    The person who buys on price alone is this man's lawful prey.


    John Ruskin (1819 - 1900)



    ZCars in Eastern Canada seaport ready for shipment to Europe

    http://ZSportCanada.com


  10. #10
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    Default Interlude: Needle Identification




    I wanted to start a needle exchange program but the department of health shut me down.


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    Last edited by Blue; 08-07-2011 at 08:55 AM.
    There is scarcely anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse, and sell a little more cheaply.
    The person who buys on price alone is this man's lawful prey.


    John Ruskin (1819 - 1900)



    ZCars in Eastern Canada seaport ready for shipment to Europe

    http://ZSportCanada.com


  11. #11
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    Default Part 7 [Seating the Needle]

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    The needle can be placed at nearly any depth in the piston; however, there is only one correct depth.

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    Lubricate the needle hole and loosely fit the needle in the hole.
    You may need to use the side screw to hold the needle if it is too loose.
    The needle should be nearly fully out of the hole (Don't worry, we will push it back in).
    For greatest accuracy, you can reassemble the suction chamber and secure all 4 (3) screws as mentioned above.

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    Turn the Idle Adjust Nut all the way up and insert the nozzle.
    Drop or, in this photo, press the piston into the nozzle.
    The shoulder of the needle will seat tightly against the jet at the correct depth.


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    Here you can see the shoulder is out of the hole at the correct depth.
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    Another shot.
    Be careful because if the needle is loose, it can drop out or fall back in the hole. Correct tension on the needle is needed to do these steps. As mentioned above, the side screw may be required to loosely hold the needle in place.

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    When satisfied with the needle's depth, slap some antiseize on the side screw and install.

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    Lock it up.

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    If you are wondering if you bent a needle, here is a quick way to check:
    Throw the piston and needle in the dome and spin.
    You can try to straighten or you can get a new one.
    You can also spin it in a drill press for inspection and straightening.
    There is scarcely anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse, and sell a little more cheaply.
    The person who buys on price alone is this man's lawful prey.


    John Ruskin (1819 - 1900)



    ZCars in Eastern Canada seaport ready for shipment to Europe

    http://ZSportCanada.com


  12. #12
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    Default Horse Teeth

    Below are a drawing and photo showing how to set needle depth in the FSM.

    The only difference in this technique is that the needle shoulder is above the bridge by the depth of the stand-off.

    When the nozzle is lowered to operating location, this should not make a big difference however, with the NON-FSM method shown above in Part 7, the nozzle top is matched against the needle's shoulder, so any mechanical differences in the sleeve, washers, stand-offs,etc between carbs will be nulled. One turn of the Idle Adjust Nut on both carbs will yield the same nozzle/shoulder gap and effectively "annular fuel orifice size".





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    Last edited by Blue; 08-07-2011 at 09:28 AM.
    There is scarcely anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse, and sell a little more cheaply.
    The person who buys on price alone is this man's lawful prey.


    John Ruskin (1819 - 1900)



    ZCars in Eastern Canada seaport ready for shipment to Europe

    http://ZSportCanada.com


  13. #13
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    Default

    Great reference! Keep them coming. Looking forward to the SU modification thread you mentioned above.
    Steve

    1973 240Z (daily driver)
    1971 240Z (track car)

  14. #14
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    Default Part 8 [Choke/Nozzle Drop Assembly]

    This is the most complex assembly. I started to photocopy a step-by-step but I messed up so I got tired and reassembled and took fewer ones.

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    Here are the key parts loosely in their relative positions.
    The long plate on the left lowers and raises the jet nozzle.
    The plate on the right is connected to the choke cable.
    The assembly is also connects via a small rod to the throttle assemble (as the jet is lowered i.e. choke applied, the small rod opens the throttle a little to give a faster idle.
    Lots of grease helps this assembly work well.
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    Here are the remaining parts with the items in the above photo assembled.
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    A spring and washer are installed on the body.
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    The rest of the assembly mounts on top and looks like this:
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    The bolt that holds it together needs antiseize and grease.
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    Here is another angle with interconnection details:
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    And another:
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    Last edited by Blue; 08-07-2011 at 09:21 PM.
    There is scarcely anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse, and sell a little more cheaply.
    The person who buys on price alone is this man's lawful prey.


    John Ruskin (1819 - 1900)



    ZCars in Eastern Canada seaport ready for shipment to Europe

    http://ZSportCanada.com


  15. #15
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    Default Part 9 [Here come the warm jets]


    Insert the nozzle and prepare the hardware.
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    Install the sleeve.
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    Insert the screw and lock washer.
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    Insert the flat washer on the other side. Use lots of grease.
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    Move the choke lever and rotate the nozzle to position the long plate so that the screw aligns with the threaded hole in the nozzle.
    Snug the screw in place.
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    Test the choke functioning by lifting the lever.
    The nozzle should drop and no binding should occur.
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    Release the choke lever and the nozzle should snap up into place without binding.
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    There is scarcely anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse, and sell a little more cheaply.
    The person who buys on price alone is this man's lawful prey.


    John Ruskin (1819 - 1900)



    ZCars in Eastern Canada seaport ready for shipment to Europe

    http://ZSportCanada.com


  16. #16
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    Default Part 10 [Throttle Assembly]

    Throttle Assembly parts in their relative positions.
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    Throttle shaft.
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    The first part is installed. This is the idle lever. A set screw pushes it down to open the throttle and increase idle speed.
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    Next is another plate. This is just the WOT stopping plate.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    A washer is installed. Grease it well on both sides.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Next is another plate with a connecting rod to the choke assembly.
    You have to twist and bend a little to fit this one. The first step to fitting is to insert the rod into the choke assemble.
    The way this works is very simple: As the choke is applied, it pulls the rod. In turn, the rod turns the throttle assembly which opens the throttle a little and increases engine rpms when the choke is on.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Another sleeve is installed. Note that it fits in the plate above.
    Use lots of grease on the ends and inside.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    This is the plate that is pushed by your foot via the throttle linkage.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    A lock washer holds it all together
    Click image for larger version. 

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    A final deep bolt with recess is installed.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    There is scarcely anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse, and sell a little more cheaply.
    The person who buys on price alone is this man's lawful prey.


    John Ruskin (1819 - 1900)



    ZCars in Eastern Canada seaport ready for shipment to Europe

    http://ZSportCanada.com


  17. #17
    Nova Scotia,Canada,Earth Blue's Avatar
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    Default Part 10b [The one that would not fit]

    The limit of 10 pictures per post bumped this one:

    Exploded drawing of throttle assembly



    Idle set screw and spring. Note the fine thread.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Installed.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by Blue; 08-07-2011 at 09:53 PM.
    There is scarcely anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse, and sell a little more cheaply.
    The person who buys on price alone is this man's lawful prey.


    John Ruskin (1819 - 1900)



    ZCars in Eastern Canada seaport ready for shipment to Europe

    http://ZSportCanada.com


  18. #18
    Nova Scotia,Canada,Earth Blue's Avatar
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    Default Part 11a [Fuel Bowl]

    The Parts
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Install shock mount washer
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Install rubber shock mount
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Install mounting shaft
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Some images of the fuel bowl
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Click image for larger version. 

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    Click image for larger version. 

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    Click image for larger version. 

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    Hitachi Logo
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Click image for larger version. 

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    There is scarcely anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse, and sell a little more cheaply.
    The person who buys on price alone is this man's lawful prey.


    John Ruskin (1819 - 1900)



    ZCars in Eastern Canada seaport ready for shipment to Europe

    http://ZSportCanada.com


  19. #19
    Nova Scotia,Canada,Earth Blue's Avatar
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    Default Part 11b

    Fuel Bowl Needle Valve
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Found all the parts (Everything will workout if you let it)

    Note the black rubber nose on the needle.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Installed
    Click image for larger version. 

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    The float.

    Note: the tab in the middle is adjustable by bending.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    To install the float, a free floating pin is used.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Closeup of how the float presses against the needle valve
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Fuel filter and banjo joint

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Detail
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Locking fastener.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Same
    Click image for larger version. 

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    There is scarcely anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse, and sell a little more cheaply.
    The person who buys on price alone is this man's lawful prey.


    John Ruskin (1819 - 1900)



    ZCars in Eastern Canada seaport ready for shipment to Europe

    http://ZSportCanada.com


  20. #20
    Nova Scotia,Canada,Earth Blue's Avatar
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    Default Part 11c

    Fuel bolt captive retainer in place
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Fuel bowl drain installed.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Fuel bowl attached to carb body.
    Note the rubber shock mounts.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    That's all folks!
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    There is scarcely anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse, and sell a little more cheaply.
    The person who buys on price alone is this man's lawful prey.


    John Ruskin (1819 - 1900)



    ZCars in Eastern Canada seaport ready for shipment to Europe

    http://ZSportCanada.com


  21. #21
    Walmart greeter Mikes Z car's Avatar
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    Default

    I really appreciate the terrific info and great pictures on the alignment tool and procedure for using it. I have a sticking piston I hope to unstick with this information. Thanks a lot! Ace hardware (now called Thriftway here I believe) didn't have the exact parts for the alignment tool but I used (their part number) 60604-D (hitch pin- 1/8" DIA) and 65784-D (nylon spacer) as a substitute. The nylon spacer available here has a slightly larger ID than what you listed but I wrapped a couple of inches of clear packing tape around the hitch pin to make the larger ID of the nylon spacer tighter on the pin.
    Mike

  22. #22
    Supporting Member 240dkw's Avatar
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    Default

    Blue: I used this thread to do the work on my carbs and look what happened, great write up .
    Thanks
    Dan
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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  23. #23
    Nova Scotia,Canada,Earth Blue's Avatar
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    Default

    Dan they are a work of art!

    Did you do the plating? It really sets them off.
    There is scarcely anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse, and sell a little more cheaply.
    The person who buys on price alone is this man's lawful prey.


    John Ruskin (1819 - 1900)



    ZCars in Eastern Canada seaport ready for shipment to Europe

    http://ZSportCanada.com


  24. #24
    Supporting Member 240dkw's Avatar
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    Default

    Yes, I used the Caswell copy-cad.

  25. #25
    Nova Scotia,Canada,Earth Blue's Avatar
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    Default some great exploded view drawings for hitachi su carbs

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Click image for larger version. 

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    Click image for larger version. 

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    There is scarcely anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse, and sell a little more cheaply.
    The person who buys on price alone is this man's lawful prey.


    John Ruskin (1819 - 1900)



    ZCars in Eastern Canada seaport ready for shipment to Europe

    http://ZSportCanada.com


  26. #26
    Registered User bquiggle's Avatar
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    Default

    Am a new owner of a 260, car isn't here yet but roundtops are so I am going thru them right now, this article is perfect for me
    I have pulled one apart (I am smart enough to keep one together until I get this one put back together.....)
    It looks as PO had played with it but didn't quite get it right, nozzles were struck, bolts and screws loose in different places ect.
    Anyway question is:

    Note 2: The black insert next to the needle is an inserted stand-off that prevents the piston from sealing against the bridge. This and the centre groove allow air to flow across the bridge when the piston is down

    On my 72 carbs this stand off is flush with the piston top (bottom) should it be and is that a problem?
    Thanks
    Bill

  27. #27
    Nova Scotia,Canada,Earth Blue's Avatar
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    Default

    Hi Bill,

    It is fractions of an inch in height (proud). You should be able to see a thin line of light when you back light the carb, open the throttle valve then peer from the front.



    Another check is to drop the piston, it is not a complete metal-metal smash due to the plastic insert, it is more of a clunk.
    Last edited by Blue; 03-03-2012 at 10:44 AM.
    There is scarcely anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse, and sell a little more cheaply.
    The person who buys on price alone is this man's lawful prey.


    John Ruskin (1819 - 1900)



    ZCars in Eastern Canada seaport ready for shipment to Europe

    http://ZSportCanada.com


  28. #28
    Registered User 5thhorsemann's Avatar
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    Default

    Damn Blue, if you aren't a shop teacher you really missed your calling. I AM IMPRESSED!!

  29. #29
    '75 280z tamo3's Avatar
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    Default

    I'm just rebuilding my '72 SU carb. I bought Just SU DVD and flowing instruction for adjustment, ripping parts. However, written ands bunch of screenshots on this thread is really useful while rebuilding SU.
    Thank you Blue.

    By the way, I have question for float adjustment. On the ZTheraphy Just SU video, they use different valve from the original one.
    The original float bowl valve is using sticking up tip value and ZTheraphy float bowl value is boll rolling valve like below.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Just SU video explain that need to keep consistent distance of 9/16 (.55") from the lid to the float.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    With original float bowl valve, I would like to find out how high is good for the adjustment.
    In other word, how much pushing tips of the valve will start dripping fuel to the bowl.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Does anyone have suggestion?

    Thanks,
    tamo3
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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  30. #30
    Rust Free'ish zKars's Avatar
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    Default

    Take the valve out, blow through the end that screws into the cap, push on the valve end with your finger until you start to blow through. Learn on/off threshold position by experimenting with finger. You can also blow into the fuel inlet pipe too with a piece of tubing attached with the thing still assembled and press the valve with your finger until you hear and feel it open. Then you can see better where the tip position is when it opens.
    -----------------------------------------
    Jim
    73 240Z HLS30 149331
    69 510 PL510 77603

    www.zKars.com
    www.calgaryzclub.ca
    Reference materials
    www.xenonS30.com

  31. #31
    '75 280z tamo3's Avatar
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    Default

    Thanks zKars.
    I was looking for any data point, common knowldge of the threshold of the original sticking tip valve, like Ztheraphy has for their own boll roller valve instead of actually testing valve.
    I will try it out.

    Thanks,
    tamo3

  32. #32
    '75 280z tamo3's Avatar
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    Default

    I search more and I found out good info.
    http://forums.hybridz.org/index.php/..._1#entry865408
    http://www.zcarz.us/TechnicalInforma...arburation.htm

    Just realized that front and rear carb the float level is different for '72 SU carb. Auto and manual transmission is also different float level.

    More and more I learn from this site.

    Thanks,
    Tamo3

  33. #33
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    Default

    You sir are a gentleman and a scholar

  34. #34
    Supporting Member Zedyone_kenobi's Avatar
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    Default

    could be the single greatest and most useful thread in all of Z car-dome
    1971 240Z HLS30-38691
    93.9% done and getting better every day
    Now with 100% more DATSUN SPIRIT L28 Power
    1968 Datsun 2000 SRL311-03416

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