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Thread: Lead footed B's.

  1. #1
    Z Slave 1 Bravo 6's Avatar
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    Default Lead footed B's.

    Dropped into the RSL for a quick hello and a can of coke. A couple of the blokes were talking about speed traps. One was saying how the BLOODY COPS had booked him for doing 80 in a 60 zone.
    BLOODY COPS this and BLOODY COPS that was the tone of the conversation.
    I asked him if he KNEW he was doing 80 in a 60 zone. He said yes. When I asked how he could possibly blame the BLOODY COPS for his own actions he gave me a dirty look and left.

    Drivers who KNOWINGLY speed and get booked for it will NEVER get sympathy from me. Such stupidity does NOT show how GOOD a driver is, it only shows how bloody irresponsible he/she is.

    Irresponsible driving can and does cause death and injury. I've seen my share of blood on the road. I guess that's why I'll never KNOWINGLY exceed the speed limit.

    Well, that's my stand on the soap box.

    Rick.
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    Registered User Dale B.'s Avatar
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    When I was young I got caught doing 105mph in a 45mph zone. I knew "I" was at fault and I simply pulled over before the officer could even turn on his lights! I got off lightly with 50+++(actually written on the citation) in a 45 zone. Cost me $20 and a few drops of sweat to be sure.By the way it was done @1:30am on a deserted main street in AZ. I would never attempt that in traffic! Still stupid though.
    Anyone who can't take responsibility for thier own driving habits should not be allowed to drive in my opinion.:

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    Formerly Datto-Zed Murph's Avatar
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    Personally I don't have a problem with the speed limit being broken provided that it's done sensibly.
    My criteria for sensisible being that it's done in the right time and place and is well within the limits of the car and driver.
    For example, not in traffic, not in populated areas and not in old dungers driven by 17 year old P platers. Also not with other people in your car that don't consent to that sort of driving.

    What concerns me most is the piss poor driver training, education and licencing in this country. What it means is that a lot of these new drivers don't know how to judge an appropriate speed for the situation themselves, nor do they understand how to control a car in anything but normal/perfect conditions.

    My ex gf of about 5 years ago was a classic example. She'd speed, tailgate, hook around corners, brake late, make snap lane changes etc, but she never had a bloody clue how to really control a car. The sad thing is she's still the same, even after her brother had a serious accident because he was driving beyond his somewhat meager ability.

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    Registered User Dale B.'s Avatar
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    I totally agree! All of my crazy driving days were in a 240Z that was well cared for and it was a big factor in how far I would go. I certainly wouldn't even dream of driving that way in my '64 Galaxie!

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    Originally posted by Dale B.
    I certainly wouldn't even dream of driving that way in my '64 Galaxie!
    Have any pictures of the Galaxie? My dad still drives a '64 that he bought new in '63. 390cid V8 and 250,000 miles on the original clutch. Within the last year or so he had a lot of work done on it - including getting the original engine rebuilt by Jasper before I decided to do the same with my 240Z. His biggest problem is rust in a couple of places. There's rust around the bottom of the rear window which allowed water into the trunk thereby causing the whole trunk floor to basically disintegrate as well as doing some serious damage to the trunk hinges.

    We have it easy around here with a car body that was basically unchanged from '70-'78 that sold in large numbers. Back in the 60's American car companies often came out with a whole new body every year. Needless to say, finding replacement parts is problematic.
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    Registered User 260DET's Avatar
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    I'm ok with the 60kph limit in built up areas, providing it is well signposted which it quite often isn't. But the max open road limits are nonsense usually, around 150kph would be a lot better. I don't feel safe driving the Z at say 100kph with a semi right up my backside, at 150 I could probably keep ahead of him. And not go to sleep from boredom at the same time.

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    Z Slave 1 Bravo 6's Avatar
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    DattoZ,
    Justin, you've hit the nail on the head there mate. Driver training and licensing in this country is a joke, a farce.

    When ANYONE with a car license can hook up to a caravan and drive interstate without ANY training or experience;

    When a young bloke can pass his driving test in a little 4 cylinder buzz box one day, then legally take out dad's AU Falcon for a 100 kph (plus) drive to the beach the next day;
    (What the heck, those two examples are enough).

    But, I'm afraid there are no excuses for exceeding the posted speed limit. Speed thrills on quiet country roads at 2 in the morning can still turn into a disaster. It just takes one leap from a kangaroo and your family is in mourning.

    I'd like to see repeat offenders made to attend BAD accidents to experience first hand the pain, suffering and remorse. Might wake the up.

    Rick.
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    Formerly Datto-Zed Murph's Avatar
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    But, I'm afraid there are no excuses for exceeding the posted speed limit. Speed thrills on quiet country roads at 2 in the morning can still turn into a disaster. It just takes one leap from a kangaroo and your family is in mourning.

    I'd like to see repeat offenders made to attend BAD accidents to experience first hand the pain, suffering and remorse. Might wake the up.

    Rick.
    You do have a good point. But I suppose it's a calculated risk I'm willing to take on occasion. Selfish? Maybe.
    Mind you, I really do make a big point of keeping that risk as small as possible as I do value my own life and I have seen first hand what happens when people do f*ckup.

    I'll tell you it certainly calms you down a heck of a lot......and scares you when you see some of the idiocy that goes on on our roads.

    On the other hand we all take risks from time to time. I like to go downhill mountain biking and there is some pretty serious risk in that. I've done some good damage to myself and seen some serious damage other riders have done to themselves. But I still continue to ride as it's a risk I'm willing to take.

    I'd conservatively put the risks I take behind the wheel at a fraction of what I do on the bike, and as with the bike I only every put myself at risk, no one else.
    Last edited by Murph; 01-08-2004 at 03:33 AM.

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    Registered User tanny's Avatar
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    Interesting how poor driving ability is always ascribed to "other" people. We always tend to assume we are extremely capable and everyone else needs the training. I think as you get older(and have survived a wreck or two), you tend to become a little less cocky about your driving skills and become much more conservative in your driving habits. Unfortunately at some point you really do get too old and your skills and senses will eventually decline to an unacceptable level. At some point people should be required to pass vision and driving skills tests every year. Of course, at what age the testing should begin is open to debate. Those dottering blue hairs with inch thick glasses going 35 in a 65 zone can be just as dangerous as the drag racing 16 year olds.

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    Registered User Victor Laury's Avatar
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    Hey, I speed, I admit it. I drive a sports car and like to feel I drive as fast as the traffic allows. So, I'm on the freeway, cruising at 80, when a SUV passes me at 100! Now, I understand that at 80 mph, my sports car is going to need skillful handling if an incident occurs in front of me. Of course, I sure the SUV driver has no chance at all in avoiding or recovering. That's what gets to me, mindless speeding. Or those young kids attempting to go way too fast, showing off for eachother, in traffic that's way too dense for such horseplay.

    It's like they have no concept of the physics involved. Mass in motion. Or are they like Bugs bunny, when he breaks the laws of gravity, "That's ok, because I never studied law".
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    Formerly Datto-Zed Murph's Avatar
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    Originally posted by tanny
    Interesting how poor driving ability is always ascribed to "other" people. We always tend to assume we are extremely capable and everyone else needs the training.
    You got a pretty good point here, and I'd be quite tempted to say we all do it. On the other hand while my driving abilty pales in comparision to many out there, I'd say I'm (and most of us on here) would be a lot better than your average Joe Bloggs.

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    Registered User 260DET's Avatar
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    Originally posted by 1 Bravo 6
    DattoZ,
    Justin, you've hit the nail on the head there mate. Driver training and licensing in this country is a joke, a farce.

    When ANYONE with a car license can hook up to a caravan and drive interstate without ANY training or experience;

    When a young bloke can pass his driving test in a little 4 cylinder buzz box one day, then legally take out dad's AU Falcon for a 100 kph (plus) drive to the beach the next day;
    (What the heck, those two examples are enough).

    But, I'm afraid there are no excuses for exceeding the posted speed limit. Speed thrills on quiet country roads at 2 in the morning can still turn into a disaster. It just takes one leap from a kangaroo and your family is in mourning.

    I'd like to see repeat offenders made to attend BAD accidents to experience first hand the pain, suffering and remorse. Might wake the up.

    Rick.
    Certainly agree about the, ummm skill, levels required to get a licence. But it is not that simple. How do new drivers gain such skills? That is part of the problem and something that the government should be doing something about, using speed camera fine money to do it.

    Don't agree about the necessity to always keep to the open road limit though. Your speed should be related to the situation not some arbitary figure, which is some situations may be too high anyway.

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    Registered User datsun260z's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Datto-Zed
    Personally I don't have a problem with the speed limit being broken provided that it's done sensibly.
    My criteria for sensisible being that it's done in the right time and place and is well within the limits of the car and driver.
    For example, not in traffic, not in populated areas and not in old dungers driven by 17 year old P platers. Also not with other people in your car that don't consent to that sort of driving.
    So who gets to decide when "the right time and place" is? There are people who have decided times and places. They are organised clubs at dedicated tracks. They have engineers who have to pass your car and require you to pass a license above and beyond a standard car license.

    Anyone who speeds on a registered road is breaking the law, and that is not just the law of the raod but also the law of statistics. Speed Kills. The more people who speed, the more people will die. Plus fatalities are higher in the younger groups. But is it entirely thier fault. After all they are only following the lead of older more experienced drivers.

    Case in point. A while back I was driving to work early in the morning. I was watching my mirror and soon saw a young bloke aproaching me. I was doing the posted limit of 90kmh when he overtook me, so I figure he is doing 100kmh. There is another bloke in my mirror, middle age, and he overtakes me and the other bloke probably doing 110kmh. Then there is a third bloke. 40ish with his wife in the passanger seat. He overtakes all three of us. Estimated speed 120kmh.

    What were they driving. The young bloke was driving a VH Commodore (same as my daily driver). The second bloke was a old Falcon. The 40ish bloke? A Hyundi.

    The morale of the story. Sure young people speed, but no worse than all the soccer mums out there. Why do more of them die. Maybe it is thier skill or lack of it. Maybe it is because they cant afford new cars with moddern safety features. Maybe it is Darwin's law of survival and they kill themselves when they are younger so less get killed when they are older. Also all three cars ended up behind a truck doing the posted limit when the two lanes merged. Speed gets you know where faster except six feet under.

    I think that is about a $1.50 worth.

  14. #14
    Formerly Datto-Zed Murph's Avatar
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    Just want to make my position clear.

    I don't generally speed. I don't speed in traffic. I don't speed around others. I don't speed in places I don't know inside out. About the only time I do speed is if I am having a bit of a play in the car and I will be the only person I'll ever put at risk by doing so.

    Don't get me wrong. There are a hell of a lot of people out there that do put peoples lives at risk by speeding at the wrong time in the wrong place and they should be stopped.

    Back on the issue of driver education, I agree with 260DET that sometimes the posted speed limit will be too high for the current conditions (eg rain). The problem is it gets pounded into our heads day in day out that if you drive at the speed limit you are a safe driver. That's a load of ****. People need to be taught to be able to think and judge the conditions for themselves.

    The McGrady governments speed kills/ever k over is a killer/lets put speed cameras at the bottom of every hill campaign sure as hell aint workin. These holidays we have the harshest punishments for speeding this country has ever seen, but have you seen the road toll? One of the highest ever.

    You know what, I'd go as far as saying the govenment should be accountable for those deaths. Year after year they lower speed limits, increase fines, increase the number of speed cameras, but do they work? No. The road toll goes up. All the while they feed us all this crap in their advertising campaigns about how they are making the roads safer and people blindly believe it.

    Sure speed kills. You know what's more dangerous? People that don't know how to control a car. People that drink and drive. People that tailgate. People that can't judge a situation for themselves.

    The government isn't going to change though. They make some serious revinue out of their current system (over 300 million in a year if I remember correctly). To save lives they'll need to implement some REAL driver education and that's going to cost money.

    Nothing will happen till the general pubic wakes up to what's going on and demands change.
    Last edited by Murph; 01-09-2004 at 01:36 AM.

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    Forever Cleaning Alan Pugh's Avatar
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    Having lived in the Northern Territory where there is no open road speed limit, it was very rare to get me over 140kph in the car anyway.
    On the bike on the way to work however it was a different story.
    A group of us tempory Australians would meet up just outside town (Katherine) and race to work at Tindal, often hitting speeds of 250+ kph.
    I haven't ridden a bike since the day my son was born as per my wifes recomendation.

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    Just for the record. I speed. The road I that used as an example, I have done 140kmh an hour on my way to work. But it was a clear morning, it is a well maintained road with two lanes and no oncoming traffic and there was absolutly no traffic. I did it once just to see if the car could do it.

    But still I know it was wrong.

    Plus it was not a once off, but the worst offence (except that time I got my 120Y coupe upto 160kmh, but that was so far in the bush that it was practacly the N.T.).

    The thing that pisses me off are people who casually speed when there is other traffic around, whether it is light or heavy. Something goes wrong when speeding on your own, well you may have done the world a favour. Do it in heavy traffic and you could kill someone's mother, wife, sister, niece, I think I have made my point
    Last edited by datsun260z; 01-09-2004 at 02:36 AM.

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    Formerly Datto-Zed Murph's Avatar
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    I agree with you 100%.

    As for the 120Y.....that's an achievement!

    But yeah, I'm sure most of us have done some pretty dumb **** when we were younger. I know I have.

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    Default AAAHHH, YES, TANNY,

    Your absolutely right when you say that it's "The Other Bloke" who lacks road savvy. (Good grief, I said s-a-v-v-y. I'm startin' to talk Yank. I blame you and Carl). Mate, I was never taught to drive. I was TRAINED to drive. I had 17 years driving experience in the Army on everything from cars through land rovers, 2 1/2 ton 4x4, 5 and 8 ton 6x6, all busses including 54 seater coaches and fork lifts up to 18,000 kg. When I passed my Transport Supervisors course I was authorised to train, test, pass or fail student drivers.
    On discharge, my Army driving record was perfectly clean.
    And yet, I do not class myself as a GOOD driver. There ain't no such animal mate. I'm just COMPETENT. And SAFE. It was drilled into me.

    I don't know what the license testing is like up your way but down here, if you can answer most of the written questions, drive in traffic without causing an accident, angle park, paralell park, do a hand brake hill start, 3 point 180 turn, all without giving the assessor a heart attack, you'll probably get your license. I understand that Driving Schools have recently begun taking students out onto the open road to "Gain Experience". What a laugh.

    Datto, I heartily agree with a lot of the points you make. The Government/s are NOT doing enough re. driver education. Forget Teaching people to drive,--TRAIN them. There's a bloody BIG difference. And, I believe, the Army way is the BEST way.

    A full time, 6 weeks course of instruction to be licensed to drive a car, then further courses for 4x4's and drop sided utes.

    How does that sound ????

    Rick.
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    Acts first, Thinks later speedyblue's Avatar
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    They have really got to do something. But nothing is going to happen while they stick to the speed kills slogan.

    I have seen it in a few of my friends (strangely enough mostly female)the attitude that once you get your license you know how to drive. After a few years of driving they come to realise how much they can't drive. (Most do anyway)

    One who was a real leadfoot rolled her car with her sister in it ( didn't suprise anyone). They were both ok, but her sister didn't learn a thing from it and speeds along narrow country roads, blind corners and all. Last time I was ever a passenger in her car.

    Why is it that every young guy gets his license and wants to buy a Commodore or a turbo vehicle. It is absolutely stupid.

    Fortunately I can't comment on my own skills, because I can't observe my own driving independently. I know I drive fast. That is why I stopped driving my 240Z 18 months ago and bought a fourby that I don't drive over 80kph.
    But the Z is going to be on the road again soon so I am really going to have to show some restraint. The Gold Coast coppers are getting pretty tight with it all, and with all the tools doing 1 wheel doughnuts in their VK commodore wagons with multi colour panels, I don't blame them.
    I drive a Z because there simply weren't enough station wagons to go around.

  20. #20
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    Driving is a Privilege, not a Right. You don't even need to be speeding or even on the road to cause mayhem. Here in Florida you read in the paper every day where some old duck has mistakenly hit the gas instead of the brake and gone right through a business store front. Such a shame IMO. This is when you really need to give up your license and ride the bus.
    Zweet

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    Formerly Datto-Zed Murph's Avatar
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    Compulsory retesting at least every 10 years should be a must.

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    1978 280Z (stock) TomoHawk's Avatar
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    I think it is agreed that speeding is OK in the right time, place and conditions. I'll throw in my (too sense) and add what my experiences have been:

    "I don't have to follow any speed limit. My SUV/vette/whatever is SAFE."

    Yeah, right. American bloody arrogance at its best(worst?) I hear a LOT about American "freedom" since 1990, and you have to conclude straight away that Americans just make up their freedoms as they go. "Freedoms" like:

    To disobey the speed limit, then complain when they get caught.
    To toss cigarette butts out the window on the highway/street/grass.
    To carry a gun, and shoot people who don't drive YOUR way.
    To basically do what you want, because you are "American."

    I first think it happens because we ("Americans") get a false sense of security by thinking that our vehicles are safer due to design, or we are better drivers because of our so-called laws, or more experience driving "safely" (if/when we did!) or that the other guy is looking out for us & himself as well. Maybe we think we're all racecar drivers? There's probably more to it; some psychological reason that pleases the id in all of us to BE dangerous.

    I'm 40, I usually drive within the posted speed limit (except to pass) and generally try to drive safely. I even STOP for stop signs. That doesn't mean I don't have my momentary brain-lapse, which occurs occasionally. Fortunately, I've never done anything to not come out safely.

    Maybe we should all take a child psychology class to figure out why the kids do it?

  23. #23
    Acts first, Thinks later speedyblue's Avatar
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    Default But is the speed limit set right?

    It is one thing to be caught speeding, ie driving faster than the set limit, but how do we know that the limit was set correctly in the first place?

    New roads are designed with a target speed in mind. This design speed controls the minimun site distance around corners, over crests ect, so it is fairly obvious what the speed should be set at, but what about the older roads that twist and turn through the hills. The road out to my house is signed at 60. It is a good road surface with lots of hills and corners.

    In NSW there are LOTS of narrower roads with hills, tight corners and blind corners that are singposted at 100kph. It is ridiculus to do those speeds.

    There was a whole study done (Swiss I think but I can't find my old textbook) on working out the best speed for a section of road. They monitored the speeds of cars and then broke it down into percintiles, eg 20% of the cars travelled under 50kph, 40% of the cars travelled under 52kph, 60% of the cars travelled under 56kph, 80% of the cars travelled under 60kph and 99% of the cars travelled under 70kph.

    They graphed this against the number of crashes with the speed limit set at different percentile ranges and found that there were the least crashes when the limit was set at the 80% limit. Set it higher, more crashes. Set it LOWER, more crashes.

    It didn't take in to acount the severity of the crashes from what I remember (cmon, it was 4 years ago) but I bevieve it is still the system used for setting the speed limit in many European countries.

    Much better than some of the 'stab in the dark' methods used here when the local politicians lobby for lower speed limits.

    I probably have got a few thing slightly wrong here because it was a while ago, but the majority of it should be right.

    My long winded opinion anyway.

    Scott
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    Last edited by speedyblue; 01-09-2004 at 01:32 PM.
    I drive a Z because there simply weren't enough station wagons to go around.

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    Formerly Datto-Zed Murph's Avatar
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    There are many many countries that quite successfully use the 80th percentile rule.

    I suppose the problem is that they have to set the speed limits keeping the lowest common denominator in mind. Judging my some of the mind blowing idiocy that I see on the roads, that's prett damn low. This is yet another reason why need better driver training. Bring that lowest common denominator up to a reasonable level so we don't have to drive at 50kmh on every bloody road for the rest of time.

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    Deftly daft Alfadog's Avatar
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    Originally posted by datsun260z
    Speed Kills.
    Guns kill, too. That ad campaign is ridiculous and as Datto-Zed pointed out, complete bollocks. All the speed cameras and millions of dollars put into advertisements hasn't really worked, has it.

    The truth of the matter is driver training is what the governments need to put (more) effort into, and they KNOW IT! Personally I went to a defensive driving course as I know I'm not skilled (although admittedly better than some) and I don't want my car to get damaged, let alone myself...

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    Registered User 260DET's Avatar
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    Yeh, you're right the 'speed kills' mantra is utter bullship. No seriously, that campaign is insulting to any remotely intelligent and free thinking person. You drive according to the circumstances, just like you make personal life decisions according to the circumstances.

    I hate, that is HATE, governments that try to brainwash.

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    True, the ad campaign, the speed guns and cameras have failed MISERABLY.
    BUT
    You can't get away from the fact that the MESSAGE is also true.
    When you look at the stopping distances at 60, 70 and 80, even blind freddy can see truth in it. (Refer the ad with the kid running onto the street chasing his toy plane).

    The ads depicting accident scenes,--the school girl hit by a car,----the young bloke sitting in the gutter full of anguish and despair,-----THAT'S HOW IT IS IN REALITY. I know, I've seen it first hand.

    Speed traps at the bottom of a hill ??? Mates, that's what the big foot pedal is for----to slow you down. No excuse.

    Speed guns and cameras ???. No problem at all. Unless you speed.

    Speed DOES kill. Every time there's a race at Bathurst you'll see cars spin out. And those drivers are PROFFESSIONALS. So what chance has the every day bloke behind the wheel got.

    Part of the problem is our belief in our own individual invulnerability. "It'll NEVER HAPPEN TO ME". CRAP.

    Rick.
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    Doing 80 in a 60 zone when there are people around probably is dangerous and will increase your risk of an accident.

    But what about 103 in a 100 zone?

    I have had 3 friends in serious accidents in the last year (turned 18 1 yr and a bit ago now). And all have been caused by poor skills and poor judgement.

    A female friend hit a practacly stationary car doing somwhere about 90k's an hour. After a car had flashed its lights at her to warn her of the trouble up ahead. This is the same girl who would sms people on her phone just days after getting her liscence. A driver paying more attention wouldnt run into someone on a large wide road full stop, but especially after someone had warned her of danger.

    Another mate swerved to avoid a fox (why i ask?) and overcorrected which resulted in him hitting an embankment and rolling his new corolla 4 times. He wasn't speeding at all, just got caught in the gravel.

    And finally I know a guy that got t-boned by a taxi when he turned right in front of it at an intersection in the melbourne CBD.

    The point of these stories is that not one person was doing over the speed limit when they had their accident, although all of them were entirely avoidable incidents if they had been paying more attention, had the required skills, or were driving APPROPRIATELY for the conditions.

    Speed does kill, the difference between hitting a tree at 103 and 100 though is tiny, the difference between reacting quickly at 100 and having a 'narrow escape' and being just too late however is MASSIVE. And paying attention and taking into acount road conditions will always help more than dropping 3 km's.

    Oh, on the subject of women drivers (were we discussing them or am i just using this to tell another story?) I was going to the beach the other day with this girl driving (I offered!) and she locked up the breaks stopping at an orange light. We skidded for about 15 metres. She couln't see that she had done anything wrong! Now where did all that driver training go? Oh, that's right most people never got any!
    Last edited by Mr Volvo; 01-10-2004 at 03:26 AM.

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    Mates,

    I'm on the north coast U.S.A (Ohio)., and it's winter now, so the roads are covered with snow, ice and other slippery stuff. And I STILL see people doing 45 mph on a 25 or 30 mph street! Then you wonder why they rear-ended a car trying to stop for a stop sign? Same thing on the highway- the sign says "speed LIMIT 60 MPH" but they think it means "safe limit." In the newspapers, EVERY winter, I see a big article trying to point out the dangers of winter driving and why you should slow down and look far ahead of where you ARE, so you can plan your actions. In fact, the article also mentions that when dad conditions exist, you can get cited for driving at the posted limit! I'm thankful for those few, RESPONSIBLE truck drivers out there on the highway, who slow down enough to get all the traffic to slow. I'd rather be a little late than PERMANENTLY LATE.

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    Mr Volvo raises a good point about doing a few kmh's over the limit.

    With these increasingly accurate speed traps the police have lowered the tolarence from 10kmh over the limit down to current levels (which I dont know).

    Now with a speedo that is only accurate to 10% plus or minus under ADR rules I could be driving over the limit without realising it. Put into the equation hills (accelerate to go up brake when going down) and suddenly I am watching my speedo more than the road in front of me.

    Now surely that is unsafer than me doing 10% over the speed limit but with full awareness off the road around me.

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    Hypothetical situation on the speedo accuracy angle:
    1970 240Z (20mph speedo)
    Road works/school zone (25km/h limit)
    Busted for speeding @ 30km/h

    Win or lose?

    Yes, it's a joke.
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    Originally posted by 1 Bravo 6
    True, the ad campaign, the speed guns and cameras have failed MISERABLY.
    BUT
    You can't get away from the fact that the MESSAGE is also true.
    When you look at the stopping distances at 60, 70 and 80, even blind freddy can see truth in it. (Refer the ad with the kid running onto the street chasing his toy plane).

    The ads depicting accident scenes,--the school girl hit by a car,----the young bloke sitting in the gutter full of anguish and despair,-----THAT'S HOW IT IS IN REALITY. I know, I've seen it first hand.
    Well it is quite true, the faster car will take longer to stop and the slower car may safe a life. However, there are MUCH more important factors that are going to save many more lives than lower speeds. I.e. driver training so the driver knows better how to avoid the situation and or control their vehicle in that situation.

    I know I'd feel a lot safer on a road at 80km/h with trained drivers rather than on a road at 60km/h with some of the *&%^ that drives on our roads now.

    Originally posted by 1 Bravo 6
    Speed traps at the bottom of a hill ??? Mates, that's what the big foot pedal is for----to slow you down. No excuse.
    You missed my point, which was that despite saying that speed cameras will only be put at black spots, where they might just slow people down and save lives, they instead get put in places where they generate maximum revinue. Eg. at the bottom of a dead straight road going down a hill, or on a 5km long dead straight section of highway, where in neither case there has ever been a death or is there a safety risk. Go figure.

    Originally posted by 1 Bravo 6 Speed DOES kill. Every time there's a race at Bathurst you'll see cars spin out. And those drivers are PROFFESSIONALS. So what chance has the every day bloke behind the wheel got.

    Part of the problem is our belief in our own individual invulnerability. "It'll NEVER HAPPEN TO ME". CRAP.

    Rick.
    Keep in mind the race driver pushes much higher limits than you or I would on the road. It comes down to knowing ones limits and staying well within them.

    I suppose that's where a large part of the problem lies. You average Joe doesn't know his or her limits if they've never expereinced them, or come close to them. Of course something that should be learned off the road!

    Originally posted by TomoHawk I'm on the north coast U.S.A (Ohio)., and it's winter now, so the roads are covered with snow, ice and other slippery stuff. And I STILL see people doing 45 mph on a 25 or 30 mph street!
    Was driving my mates skyline this morning on the highway and it was raining that hard that I ended up having to slow to under 50km/h to see anything. Still had some wanker come flying up behind me and almost rear end me because he was going so fast and couldn't see ****.

    Originally posted by datsun260z Now with a speedo that is only accurate to 10% plus or minus under ADR rules I could be driving over the limit without realising it. Put into the equation hills (accelerate to go up brake when going down) and suddenly I am watching my speedo more than the road in front of me.

    Now surely that is unsafer than me doing 10% over the speed limit but with full awareness off the road around me.
    Bingo! We have a winner.
    Last edited by Murph; 01-10-2004 at 11:47 PM.

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    Hey there Datto,

    You know mate, you and I are actually AGREEING on the main point. The LACK of proper TRAINING. We're just using different words to say the same thing.

    Now it's my guess that you're not an old fart like me and from your comments I take it that you know a fair few younger drivers. Have any of them done a defensive driving course or, better still, an Advanced driving course? Perhaps you could suggest those courses to your inexperienced friends.
    Not only would I recomend the courses but I believe they should be compulsory for all newly licensed drivers.

    Rick.
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    Agreed.

    I'm 22 and do know a lot of drivers in the 18-30 bracket.

    Quite a few of them have done advanced and defensive driving courses, although I haven't as yet. However it's certainly right up there on my "when I have some money" to do list. Namely because I'd like to learn more about car control and also because I realise that I'm not the greatest behind the wheel.

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    That's great idea. I'd like to take one too, someday.

    Sarcastically, I sometimres Ii think these courses just give the drivers a little'over-confidence' in their ability, and they end up thinking they can handle anything. So they drive faster, and take more chances.

    Until they crash.


    Just some food for thought.

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    Yes that's exactly true also. The course I did stressed A LOT that this was purely DEFENSIVE driving, not OFFENSIVE. We did not learn how to drag the cars or go sideways, we learnt braking techniques, avoiding objects and making decisions when you're driving (forward-thinking).

    Advanced Driving courses are a little different however and I do suspect a lot of drivers go out after doing that with a somewhat over-confident attitude like you said.

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    I once watched a video about defensive driving. Only thing was that it involved the secret service.

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    AHAAAA, me old mate Lachlan.

    Yes, I noted in your earlier post that you had done a Defensive Driving Course. I think I did three all up over the years but it was the Advanced course that REALLY taught me how to handle a vehicle.

    The instructors SHOULD make it quite clear that the course is to not only make you a better driver but a SAFER driver.

    When you can afford it mate, DO IT. I reckon you'd enjoy it.


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    Yep, Rick I plan on doing that when I can get to it. The Beginning Defensive Driving course didn't really teach me much I didn't know, but it was good to get out there and actually DO IT, not just have the theory in my head.

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    how did you find out wqhere those course are held? I think I saw an auto insurance commercial on TV, so I think I might give my insurance man a ring.

    Cheers,

    BTW, did they clean up the mess down at the harbour, or just move it all to switzerland?

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    It doesn't take a scientist to perform a web search for "Advanced Driving" and the city name nearest you.

    five minutes netted me this one
    Advanced Driving Dynamics, Inc
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    Visit My Other Photo Site

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    Also try the classifieds in your local paper.

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    There are still one or two places left for our performance driving day at Morgan Park Raceway, Q, on Friday 6 Feb. Individual tuition and a written assessment, great day for $280.

    And, you can go as fast as you want.

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    Ok, I'm late to this debate but I want to share this with you.
    Although there have been one or two fixed cameras here for some time, the authorities have just discovered the efficient money making ability of digital cameras. They are springing up everywhere, predominantly on two lane roads and motorways, where I'd imagine speeding is less dangerous than on urban roads and black spots !
    The limit is set at 5% above the speed limit, here at 130 kph, you will get flashed at 137 kph, at 110 - 116 and at 90 - 95. This doesn't give much away on leeway, you're obliged to drive at no more than the limit indicated on your speedo.
    The latest accident figures show the first dip under 6000 deaths per year since they started counting in 1950, in fact a continous down-trend but something which will support more speed controls.
    Young drivers get their licence now with just 6 points (instead of 12) and after a certain time with no infractions, get the boost up to 12 - good idea !
    Cycle motors (mopeds) have to have registration plates now to allow the Police to follow up easier their infractions - good idea - the users will be (a bit) less likely to ride like idiots with no thought for themselves or the carnage they leave behind !
    But I still say that speed doesn't kill by itself ! Recently, there were two examples of people driving up the wrong way on motorways, one finished without harm but the other closed one of the busiest m-ways here and caused a number of deaths. Bearing in mind that here the m-ways are controlled (pay booths), you have to be f***ing stupid or very easily confused to go the wrong way AND KEEP ON GOING FOR SEVERAL KMS !

    Anticipation, respect, tolerance and control is what keeps us alive on the roads today. I also have had accidents and been 'done' for speeding and they were my fault - I'm a better driver now than when I was younger and thought I was !
    1970 240Z wreck
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    In this usually quiet, peaceful seaside town where I live, last Friday night a car failed to take a bend and wrapped itself around a pole killing the driver.

    He was 17 years old.

    What a waste.

    Pity his poor parents and other family members.



    Rick.
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    I just read the entire topic, and i didn't notice (apologies for blindness) a issue that i see as a having a huge effect on what 'speeding' should be.

    The Car!?

    Take my situation.. 1985 ford laser stock as they come, 1974 260z with nice suspension and a warm motor

    both are very different cars. the Z is a pleasure to drive, i love to go into the corners at 60, and hit the pedal midway and (as you all know) she just does as she's told..., now take me switching to the laser for a cheaper drive across town, i have in the past forgotten a small fact, its the LASER not the ZED! it slides going through a corner at 60 (fortunately didn't roll) and as someone made a point - i was checking my speedo coming up to a common police area rather than concentrating on my car, its limits, my limits, and the roads limits.

    also the lasers brakes are terrible in comparison, the wheels are closing in on half the width... they lock easier, and dont slow me up any where near as quick as the Z.

    however, given all this praise of the Z.
    All the same, in the rain, if i breathe on my accelerator i go sliding whereas in the laser, you can put the pedal on the floor and there isn't the power to start a spin(almost)

    The point is.. Driving a Lada Diva, and driving a porsche 911 are extremely different things - and i dont need to expand that....

    the porsche could probably pull up from 3x the speed in the same distance.

    Understandably you need to add human response times. But in my mind this is a serious point....
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------
    You can stop here.... i felt like waffling for longer but unless you're a cat, you've probably better things to do

    All i want to say is, the type of car has a HUGE part to play in the safety and the avoidability of any situation.

    Feel free to flame me and disagree

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------
    Some of us drive some seriously performance oriented cars, and that means we have cars that handle like a slot car, go like the wind and have huge stoppers poking out from behind each corner.

    So why are we penalised for not abiding by laws that were designed and structured (assumedly) on statistics from ours and other countries around the world that represent the mass population, of which high performance cars make very little to no impact due to the sheer size of the SUV and Family car markets... blah blah

    But of course they can't have one rule for the commodore, one rule for the falcon, and one for the barina (sorry americans) what if one commodore has new sports tyres, shouldn't he be allowed to go faster because he can pull up and corner slightly better?
    etc etc blah blah.. it is impossible to enforce a grey area, so we are stuck abiding to a very black and white rulebook.

    After all, logic says it has to be this way

    What gets me, is the way the rules are enforced, i've heard and shared many cop stories, and without bias (i am unusually calm writing this!) there are so many more reflecting a bad attitude towards owners of flashy cars! i've be stalked the width of the town for an "rbt" and known people that were let go at a displayed 38 over the limit (and he knows he was)!

    But its not only police, i've been sworn at and had rude signals shown to me by people in other cars countless times (and never once from a nice new car) always old beaten cars with dinged panels etc.

    Do the police have an inferiority complex and grudge just like them?

    why come down harder on someone that is less endangering to the safety of a given situation

    i'm going to shutup now and sleep
    i'll waffle another day
    *dodges rotten tomatoes*

    speaking of which, haven't tomatoes been poor quality lately... good time to plant a tomato seed! i am scared of food poisoning everytime i eat one!
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    Another problem with policing of speed is that most of the time it isn't the police doing the catching!

    I must admit I'm a bit of an idealist and as I havent had a run in with any yet I still believe to be decent compassionate human beings.
    But a camera atached to somone who is getting payed to catch people will probly not be so understanding.
    I mean if I'm doing 105 on a wide straight stretch of road in the country at 5 o'clock in the afternoon about 5k's from my house and there isn't a car in sight, then I'm sure the police would just tell me to be careful. But recently this situation occured near my house but there was a camera on the side of the road hidden on the crest of a small rise in a camry, not even a police car.
    Even if I had got a ticket it probably wouldn't have made me re-think my speed anywhere near as much as having a police car pull me over and give me a bit of a lecture about the dangers of speeding (whethere they are false or not).

    That was some terrible grammar throughout that post, but im sure the general *vibe* is there:
    A police car pulling someone over will enforce the message that the TAC propose (be that a good message or not) far more effectively than a letter 2 weeks later in the mail.

    And that lack of effectiveness leads people to believe that the new laws can only be designed for revenue raising, not safety.

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    Originally posted by Mr Volvo Even if I had got a ticket it probably wouldn't have made me re-think my speed anywhere near as much as having a police car pull me over and give me a bit of a lecture about the dangers of speeding (whethere they are false or not).
    That's a good point that is also relevant to general policing of our roads. I personally find that getting pulled up for doing something stupid, having them go over my car, get a big lecture, me **** my daks, then get let off with a warning leaves me with a good bit more fear and more to the point respect for them and the law than if they just hand me a big fine and be on their way.

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    Thats just the point, the kcuf here (work out why they're called that) are on a zero tolerance and are booking people for anything that they can - speeding itickets are THE fashion. There is no opportunity to explain extenuating circumstances, they're not even ging to lecture you, just write out the ticket and voila, you've just lost 2 or more points and have a fine to pay !

    The fine plus a going over would calm me ! But that still leaves the (dare I say it) Volvo drivers poodling along at a 'safe' 3kmh under the speed limit, braking for no reason, turning without a signal, bumper hugging and generally leaving chaos behind them - they're the ones who have snug insurance bonuses 'cos they never had an accident ! How many were caused by their 'safe' driving ?
    1970 240Z wreck
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    On that note I have to acnowledge that up here in Townsville we are getting it a lot better than down south where they have a 3% speed tolerance. They're still using the 10% tolerance here AFAIK.

    Things were pretty bad here a year or two ago. We have this local councilor called Jack Willson that went on a mad anti "hoon" cruisade. His definition of "hoon" being anyone in any modified or hotted up car regardless of whether they broke the law or not. Not to mention that most people in nice cars are sensible and it's dumb kids in mummies camry or bogans in commodores screetching their tires on the strand.

    Anyhow he went on to make many outrageous comments in the media about owners of modified cars, even outright calling us ALL criminals, and saying that we owned and modified these cars purely for criminal purposes and to purposly disrupt the public. And with all this hysteria in the media all the joe blows that are incapable of thinking for themselves jumped on the bandwagon. And yeah, everyone copped some pretty harsh threatment from the police.

    Yeah well we spat the dummy at that. A large group (50 or so) of the townsville members of performance forums went and flooded the local paper with letters, all written to a very high standard pointing out that it's only a very small minority that do dumb sh*t etc etc.

    I was the organiser of a big cruise to which we invited Jack and the media, so he could meet us criminals face to face and see that we were just average people, not to mention doctors, lawyers, IT profesionals, engineers etc etc. We had about 70 cars and bikes rock up for the cruise which was great, everyone was well behaved (as per usual on the big cruises) and it did a great job of giving the general public a new perspective on the modified car scene. Another great out come was that we came to a few agreements between us, the council and the police, which meant that the police backed right off.

    The funniest bit though, the media managed to get an admission from Jack........on the local news, that he'd pulled skids in his car when he was younger!!!

    Since then the council has got right in to support the car scene. Recently as part of the Townsville centenary celebrations they had a 400 strong supercruise and car show on the strand. We had some huge numbers come to watch too.


    Wow....that turned into quite a long tale!

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    Originally posted by Sean Dezart
    The fine plus a going over would calm me ! But that still leaves the (dare I say it) Volvo drivers poodling along at a 'safe' 3kmh under the speed limit, braking for no reason, turning without a signal, bumper hugging and generally leaving chaos behind them - they're the ones who have snug insurance bonuses 'cos they never had an accident ! How many were caused by their 'safe' driving ?
    Wow, u must have terrible Volvo drivers in France. All the Volvo drivers here in AUS are fantastic. Especically the P-platers! Even more so the ones that drive green 940's.

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    The worst here are ambulance drivers - I'm talking about private ambulances, used in the main as taxis for people unable to walk to the doctors / hospitals etc and reimbursed by their health insurance. These guys (and gals) spend too much time on the road and hence take it all for granted, speeding, cutting up, phone in one hand, late braking, swinging off a three lane road onto the off ramp....

    Women are the least polite and generally completely oblivious to anything other than what is in front. The small people carriers (Megan Scenics/Citroen Picassos) that allow them higher and therefore better vision permit them to hang closer to your butt 'cos they can see there's no danger in front of you. Of course there's no danger to them 'cos they can stop courtesy of ESP, ABS, KGB, KY, SOB..... !

    It used to be Volvos, the 244DLs, especially estates but they got too expensive !
    1970 240Z wreck
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  53. #53
    Off my bleeding rocker ! symon's Avatar
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    If you want to see bad driving just come to Spain. The young lads here at 18 are buying small GTIs that go like a rocket. They show off to their mates after a night of bars & "fiesta" by racing around the town centres, etc, etc. The sunday drivers clog up the roads at 50 kph, the women drivers park using their bumpers, the list goes on & on.
    I´ve got no problem about speeding if it is done in a sensible controlled manner by drivers who know how to control their car, but I suppose that the governments have to put speed limits based on the average nerd´s driving ability, the average plonker´s road awareness & the average pot brains motor car.
    I´ve been driving all over Europe for the last 23 years & so far only picked up one ticket for 42 mph in a 30 area about 2 miles from my parents home . But using a bit of common sense I´ve done average spped trips of well over 90 mph on main roads without getting a ticket & I would like to think that I did not create any accidents, cut up anybody, etc.
    When I really want to enjoy myself I go to one of the local race tracks. That´s the best place to go fast.

  54. #54
    Registered User Sean Dezart's Avatar
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    Yeah Symon, the track's the place to be wicked without the usual blue follow-up !

    This might interest you :

    situation: NOUGARO dans le GERS
    possibilité de faire tourner des voitures de tous type pendant les journées club.
    seul obligations pour tous véhicules avoir une assurance course .
    pour les dates du mois de mai ou juin je ne les aurait que courant fin avril
    prix de la journée par véhicule 70 €.

    I'm sure I can find the motivation for you to improove your French !

    I've been only a few times on the track with a Z but every time...mmmh ! Otherwise as a small club, we hire a karting circuit for team endurance races but beware, there are no friends on the track !
    1970 240Z wreck
    1973 240Z (almost boringly quick) !
    1977 260Z 2+2
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    Registered User 260DET's Avatar
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    Default French cops

    I thought that French cops were called 'flics', a sort of friendly name. Anyway, sounds like they need sending off to Iraq to give them some proper police work to do.

  56. #56
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    They are called flics but if they really p*** you off and you've lost all respect for them, the name if kcuf, pronounced couff !
    Poule is another name, and therefore la maison des poules is the local gendarmerie !
    1970 240Z wreck
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    I totally agree with what Walking pig has to say... The tomatoes are really really really crap lately


    Originally posted by Walkingpig

    *dodges rotten tomatoes*

    speaking of which, haven't tomatoes been poor quality lately... good time to plant a tomato seed! i am scared of food poisoning everytime i eat one!
    I find all this really sad, because it shows the times. I've heard lots a stories from old timers about "maxing out" their falcon gtho's at 160mph-racing against 6 pack chargers
    or racing their 240z(with tripple webbers in early 70's) thru mountain roads - keeping at 10 tenths for hours on end.(and dat 1600's)
    ALL THIS ON PUBLIC ROADS

    And those days are gone.. Now in qld if you get caught doing 45kph over you LOSE your licence for a min 6 months- and unlike drink driving you cant even get a work licence.
    I'am not saying that the above things are sensible but its something that us younger petrol heads WONT ever be able to do -
    the phase "lets take her out and see what she'll do" is over.

    The cops dont even have to bust you - they sit in their van/4wd on the side of the road and let a camera do that(what a job hey).

    Anyone watched cannonball run recently???

  58. #58
    Registered User Sean Dezart's Avatar
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    No, I prefer The Gumball Rally - fewer breasts but the action is more realistic !
    What was the name of the other film with David Carridine in which a yellow Pantera explodes ?
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    Unstockafied Zrush's Avatar
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    The movie with David Carridine is called "Cannonball". They've been running it on HBO forever. I think it sucks.
    Zweet

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    Ok, I accept that ! So, you prefer The Run with the girls (Katherine Ross from The Dukes Of Hazard) in the Lambo who, in the 2nd film get done by the lady cop ?

    Anyone seen the 1st version of Gone in 60 Seconds or Dirty Larry and Crazy Mary (never did understand what that film was about) ?
    1970 240Z wreck
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    Cannonball Run with Burt Reynolds is a classic. I love the parts played by Dean Martin and Sammy Davis Jr as drunk priests in a Ferrari.

    Too funny
    Zweet

  62. #62
    Formerly Datto-Zed Murph's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Sean Dezart Anyone seen the 1st version of Gone in 60 Seconds or Dirty Larry and Crazy Mary (never did understand what that film was about) ?
    Damn that was one shocking film. I'm supprised anyone could understand anything from it! Was sorta cool to watch them smash all the cars up though.....but that's about it. Gotta love how the engine note of the stang changes through out the movie. It starts out sounding like a low revving lazy V8, by the end it sound like a highly tuned/high revving V8.

  63. #63
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    Originally posted by zrush
    Cannonball Run with Burt Reynolds is a classic.
    Interesting trivia: This was the first US movie with Jackie Chan (1981). He was the driver of Subaru with the jet engine in the back and night vision goggles who later got into a fight with a bunch of bikers.

    Jackie got the idea of running outtakes at the end of his movies from this film.

    http://www.lovehkfilm.com/panasia/cannonball_run.htm
    -Mike
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  64. #64
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    "Michael Hui (brother of Swordsman's Sam Hui) are clearly speaking Cantonese, their characters are erroneously identified as Japanese Subaru drivers"

    zrush, quote from the site you posted. I thought that the co-driver was 'Jaws' from the Bond films, who, speaking Cantonese or not, cannot be mistaken for being Japanese !

    You sure Dirty Larry drove a 'stang ? I thought the car that hit the train at the end was a 'Cuda ?
    1970 240Z wreck
    1973 240Z (almost boringly quick) !
    1977 260Z 2+2
    1981 280ZX 2 seater
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    Unstockafied Zrush's Avatar
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    Sean, I didn't quote from any site, I think you mean Mike W. I agree, you could never mistake "Jaws" for a Japanese. In "Dirty Mary, Crazy Larry", I thought it was an yellow Charger. I could be wrong as it's been years since I've seen that movie.
    Zweet

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    Ahh....can't remember. Tis all the same.

  67. #67
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    Originally posted by Sean Dezart
    I thought that the co-driver was 'Jaws' from the Bond films, who, speaking Cantonese or not, cannot be mistaken for being Japanese !
    Richard Kiel ("Jaws") was actually Jackie Chan's driving partner in the forgetable sequel "Cannonball Run II". This was the movie where Burt Reynolds was an Army general. Even Frank Sinatra made an appearance. As I recall even though it was supposed to be the same cross country race it appeared to be filmed entirely in the California desert.

    The original:

    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0082136/

    The sequel:

    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0087032/
    -Mike
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  68. #68
    Registered User Sean Dezart's Avatar
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    Ah Mike W - you're hot, too hot for me ! Yeah. The 1st Cannonball was alright, the second featured too much of Telly Savalas and his glasses wearing nephew.

    Completely off the track and because they seem to be some serious film buffs out there, apart from The Italian Job, is there any film coverage of Lamborghini Muiras ?
    1970 240Z wreck
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  69. #69
    1978 280Z (stock) TomoHawk's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Sean Dezart
    (Katherine Ross from The Dukes Of Hazard)
    I think that's Katherine Bach, on "Dukes of Hazzard" and Katherine Ross plays Mrs. Cunningham on "Happy Days?"

  70. #70
    Unstockafied Zrush's Avatar
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    Katherine Ross was in the movie Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid with Robert Redford and Paul Newman.

    Marion Ross was in Happy Days.

    I Think
    Zweet

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    Correct.

    No worries...

  72. #72
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    Right, I'll take a K. Ross and a K. Bach when I don't need intelligent after s*x chat !
    1970 240Z wreck
    1973 240Z (almost boringly quick) !
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    1981 280ZX 2 seater
    1982 280ZX 2 seater
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  73. #73
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    Weren't Chan & Jaws in a Mitsubishi Cordia Turbo, not a scoobie?
    Ben
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  74. #74
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    I think your right, and I haven't seen one since - what happened to them - rust ?
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    1973 240Z (almost boringly quick) !
    1977 260Z 2+2
    1981 280ZX 2 seater
    1982 280ZX 2 seater
    1989 300ZX N/A 2+2

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  75. #75
    Dats a Nissan Enthusiast kyteler's Avatar
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    There's plenty of GSR Cordia Turbo's left over here (in NZ), there's just something about them that doesn't seem right though. That and Mixof****ties (Mitsubishi's) seem to be made of the thinnest metal in the world and seem dreadfully unsafe.
    -Michael

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  76. #76
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    Originally posted by Mr Volvo
    Another problem with policing of speed is that most of the time it isn't the police doing the catching!

    I must admit I'm a bit of an idealist and as I havent had a run in with any yet I still believe to be decent compassionate human beings.
    But a camera atached to somone who is getting payed to catch people will probly not be so understanding.
    I mean if I'm doing 105 on a wide straight stretch of road in the country at 5 o'clock in the afternoon about 5k's from my house and there isn't a car in sight, then I'm sure the police would just tell me to be careful. But recently this situation occured near my house but there was a camera on the side of the road hidden on the crest of a small rise in a camry, not even a police car.
    Even if I had got a ticket it probably wouldn't have made me re-think my speed anywhere near as much as having a police car pull me over and give me a bit of a lecture about the dangers of speeding (whethere they are false or not).

    That was some terrible grammar throughout that post, but im sure the general *vibe* is there:
    A police car pulling someone over will enforce the message that the TAC propose (be that a good message or not) far more effectively than a letter 2 weeks later in the mail.

    And that lack of effectiveness leads people to believe that the new laws can only be designed for revenue raising, not safety.
    Lets start a new thread now. Nice stories about police. I have two.

    1. Walk out of a night club at three in the morning. This is a well lit city on a quite night so when I jump in my car I forget the headlight. I notice this when I pass the first oncoming car, Mr Police Car. So while he is doing a Uturn I pull over, turn my engine off and get out my license. He does not give me a lecture but still gives me a RBT then lets me go with no fine and headlight on.

    2. Working as a courier driving without my seatbelt. Pass a Motor cycle cop but try to lose him while he Uturns. $50 fine but no lecture. Two weeks later I am in an accident and write my car off. No injury as I am waring my seatbelt.

  77. #77
    Registered User Sean Dezart's Avatar
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    Here there is no difference if one is flashed by an automatic camera or stopped by the police - Zero tolerance and an automatic can process a lot more in 24 hrs and costs less !

    Interestingly, the gov. promised that no automatic cameras would be used without signs up warning that there are cameras nearby. So, when the police started taking delivery of their mobile auto cameras, legally they can't use them 'cos they weren't issued with little (similar to warning triangles) signs that they must place so many metres before the camera !

    datsun260z, I hear you BUT when I wrote off my 260, upside down in a water filled ditch, swimming to the road with my girlfriend all the police could do when I reported the accident was to ask me to call in later. When I did, they'd decided that a fine was appropriate !
    When I asked did they think that after nearly having died and wrecked a clean 260z, they thought that was fiar, the reply was 'it's like that' !
    We were wearing our seat belts which saved us even though our heads were in water !
    1970 240Z wreck
    1973 240Z (almost boringly quick) !
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    1981 280ZX 2 seater
    1982 280ZX 2 seater
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    Couple of pages back I mentioned that a 17 year old had died in a crash.
    Here's the newspaper article. Speaks for itself.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    IF YOU CAN READ THIS, THANK A TEACHER.
    SINCE IT'S IN ENGLISH, THANK A SOLDIER.


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    Yeah that sobers you up !

    Here all the night clubs are located in the countryside to avoid disturbing residents and every Saturday / Sunday morning there's the carnage on the roads, too tired / too excited / dis-orientated by loud music and lights and sometimes (but not always) drunk or stoned ! So sad that they're too young to get wise !
    1970 240Z wreck
    1973 240Z (almost boringly quick) !
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    1982 280ZX 2 seater
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  80. #80
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    Speed cameras ???

    Anyone driving in New South Wales who gets caught by a camera has only himself to blame. There are signs all along the highway warning drivers that cameras are in operation. .

    And PLEASE don't tell me that taking your eyes off the road to check your speed is dangerous, as was suggested earlier in this thread. It's only dangerous if you don't know where the speedo is and have to find it.

    Do you check your rear view mirrors, (other than to make sure it's safe to pull out to overtake), or your temperature gauge to see if you've blown a welsh plug or a hose, you should !!!.

    Do you use the cigarette lighter, change radio stations, change the cassette or CD, glance over at your passenger during conversation ????? They all take a lot longer than a quick glance at the speedo.

    Provided you know where it is of course.



    Rick.
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  81. #81
    Formerly Datto-Zed Murph's Avatar
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    Originally posted by 1 Bravo 6 And PLEASE don't tell me that taking your eyes off the road to check your speed is dangerous, as was suggested earlier in this thread. It's only dangerous if you don't know where the speedo is and have to find it.

    Do you check your rear view mirrors, (other than to make sure it's safe to pull out to overtake), or your temperature gauge to see if you've blown a welsh plug or a hose, you should !!!.

    Do you use the cigarette lighter, change radio stations, change the cassette or CD, glance over at your passenger during conversation ????? They all take a lot longer than a quick glance at the speedo.

    Provided you know where it is of course.



    Rick.
    Well....

    It really depends on where you are and the situation you're in. In normal driving, where traffic isn't to heavy and there aren't too many distractions, then yes, you shouldn't have any trouble knowing/checking what your speed is.

    The problem is when you get into a busy area, with lots of traffic, lots of pedestrians, or places you're unfamiliar with, then this can be a problem.

    For example when we were last down in Brisbane... Keep in mind that up here in Townsville people are generally pretty relaxed on the roads, none of the crazy hustle and bustle of the big cities. So we go down to brissy and it's this huge and totally unfamiliar place. The roads are much more congested, people are more agressive and you have added complexities such as that you must be in the correct lane at the correct time or you'll end up on the other side of the city.

    In this sort of situation you simply don't have the time to keep your eyes glued to the speedo and your speed perfect. You go with the flow of the traffic and that means that you'll often enough end up speeding, even if only for a moment. And if anyone wants to argue that I'd be safer justs taking my time and driving under the limit.......nooooooooo way. I really don't think I even need to explain that.

    Anyway, my point is normally there shouldn't be a problem. In some situations there is. Also, with the 3km/h "tollerance" down south, I can see drivers spending A LOT more time looking at their speedo's. Hey, ever k over is a killer right? By the same token every second your eyes are off the road is a killer too.

  82. #82
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    Story of some woman being flashed at 117 kmh (corrected to 111)in a 110 zone, 90 euro fineand 2 pts, rising to 135 if not paid within 3 days. 3 days is about the time it takes to ask and get legal advice as to whether or not to contest !

    Surely if one is in an area unknown or where there are multiple hazards like traffic, pedestrians, rain, lots of junctions, one shouls already have slowed down so if you look away from the front for whatever, the risks (although still present) are reduced which is what driving is - always a risk but we try to keep it dwon to a minimum.

    What we all need is a system that calculates in the car the risk factor every 2 seconds, drive slower and the risk reduces, drive at the same speed through a busy area, it rises, in bad weather, it rises further etc.
    That or the anti-peril glasses marketed so well in Hitch-Hikers !
    1970 240Z wreck
    1973 240Z (almost boringly quick) !
    1977 260Z 2+2
    1981 280ZX 2 seater
    1982 280ZX 2 seater
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    Club Datsun-France - for the cars and the people but most of all for the fun !

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    Well, now,
    Here in Yeppoon, if there are dozen cars in a row, it's PEAK HOUR TRAFFIC, so I know what small town versus big city traffic is.

    You see, on average, We travell to Brisbane around every two months. Usually towing an 18 foot caravan.
    Now, in Brisbane, (Sydney's WORSE), if you leave a nice, safe buffer zone between you and the car in front, you'll ALWAYS find a city driver who'll duck into that space, lessening your "Safety margin".
    Funny thing is, ---I can STILL check my speedo and maintain a LEGAL speed.

    With over 40 years of driving experience, (you name it, I've probably done it), I've been involved in only two accidents, both times the other blokes fault entirely.

    Bear in mind that I've been luckier than most other drivers. As we've been saying all along, I had proper TRAINING and have gained the EXPERIENCE.

    Rick.
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    Reading back through the recent posts I notice that Sean mentions driving in bad weather.

    Now, I know it's rather silly but something that really gets up my left nostril are the news reports on T.V. or newspapers when they make statements such as;

    "Heavy rain and poor driving conditions today caused a number of accidents----------".

    CRAP !!!

    Such accidents are caused by fools who haven't the sense to slow down and take precautions due to the unsafe conditions.



    Rick.
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    Dats a Nissan Enthusiast kyteler's Avatar
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    I findparticular problems with people driving in the snow, where I am, it tends to snow maybe once every odd winter and when it does LOOK OUT!

    Obviously a sensible driver would be extremely cautious in the snow due to the extreme lack of grip, several times I've had to watch myself at intersections as those same people who never use gears to slow down and only brake in the last 10m before the intersection are the same people who fly right through them in their vain attempts to stop.

    It's all about driving FOR THE CONDITIONS, whether they be weather or road surface, car or otherwise.

    I'll come clean, I've been done once for speeding, never had an accident in a car (Had 1 motorcycle crash, year before last, the engine seized and the rear wheel locked, I don't remember any of it, my brother was behind me on his bike, that's how I know.) and my speeding ticket was a bunch of pooh. The speedo on the car was out and I was in the passing lane UP A HILL no less, and got snapped for "135+" KPH the speedo said 115kph. That was in my brothers old 280ZX come to think of it. Bloody X that did it I reckon, if she'd have been a Z maybe it would have never happened.
    -Michael

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  86. #86
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    Adaptation to the conditions which include weather, traffic, junctions, pedestrians etc and our brain CAN process all of that very quickly. Sometimes, just easing off the accelerater (and sometimes covering the brake) is enough.
    My accidents (luckily w/out injuries) have taught me lots of things and I'm a better driver for them. Learnt the hard way but at least I'm still here to profit by my experiences and harp on and on and ....
    1970 240Z wreck
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    1982 280ZX 2 seater
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    Originally posted by 1 Bravo 6 You see, on average, We travell to Brisbane around every two months. Usually towing an 18 foot caravan.
    Now, in Brisbane, (Sydney's WORSE), if you leave a nice, safe buffer zone between you and the car in front, you'll ALWAYS find a city driver who'll duck into that space, lessening your "Safety margin".
    Funny thing is, ---I can STILL check my speedo and maintain a LEGAL speed.
    *Datto grabs his shovel*

    So your telling me you never accidentally exceed the speed limit, not even by 3km/h?

    /dig

  88. #88
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    Ahhhhh, Justin,

    Perhaps you should also use the smiley as I do.

    No, I'm not perfect and, as I mentioned earlier in the thread, I don't even class myself as a GOOD driver, merely COMPETENT.

    Truthfully, yes, I have slipped above the limit on rare occassions around town only to drop back as soon as I realise it.

    On the open highway, only when overtaking and then, only when a passing lane is available or when I can see a clear road ahead then, having overtaken as safely as possible, I drop back to the regulated speed for that area.

    The "Other" car in the family is a series 3 AU Falcon whis is used for our frequent long trips. One of it's features is a warning BEEP that sounds whenever the speed setting is exceeded. I have it set for 100kph.

    However, under no circumstances would I deliberately and knowingly exceed the speed limit just to indulge myself with a cheap thrill.

    Now, THAT IS the voice of experience.




    Rick.
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  89. #89
    Formerly Datto-Zed Murph's Avatar
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    Geezz.....How many smilies do you want me to use? (damnit! I tried to put more smilies in but it wouldn't let me!)

    I was just having a dig Rick, twas not meant seriously.

    Just as a point of interest, how did you drive when you were my age? And I don't mean that so I can say "har har, you drove like a tool too when you were young". More of less looking for some discussion of how things have changed since then. Road law, policing and peoples attitudes.

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    An interesting article for you all about speed cameras.

    http://www.cis.org.au/policy/spr03/polspr03-1.pdf

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    Originally posted by Datto-Zed
    An interesting article for you all about speed cameras.

    http://www.cis.org.au/policy/spr03/polspr03-1.pdf
    Interesting article. As always, it has its own slant, and uses the statistics for its own purposes, but makes many good points about probable government misuse of the same statistics.

    I've always been of the opinion that, within reason, the safest speed to drive is the speed you are comfortable driving at. I used to spend a lot of miles driving on the open freeways in the western US. I found that about 70mph was a comfortable speed for me then, even though the limit was 55mph. Note that the 55 mph limit in the US was implemented as a gas saving measure in the mid 1970's, and not originally for safety. Now that most speed limits on US highways are 65 or 70 mph, what speed do I drive on them? About 70 mph! That's the speed I'm comfortable driving on open, clear, dry highway, and thus I believe is the safest speed for me. I go slower when conditions warrent - weather, traffice density, etc.

    And I wholeheartedly agree with the paper's premise that the most dangerous drivers are the ones that go very fast OR very slow. The slower drivers are usually the ones that have no clue how to drive their vehicles in anything but a straight line, and thus under any kind of unusual condition, are much more likely to be involved in an accident. The extreme speeders, of course, can't avoid the accident because they are going so much faster than the prevailing traffic flow.

    Anyway, FWIW.
    Mark Brandyberry
    1970 240Z (11/69) HLS30 00215
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    "However, under no circumstances would I deliberately and knowingly exceed the speed limit just to indulge myself with a cheap thrill." Boring ! Yes, I know I open myself to loads of criticism but why do you have a Z ? Unless you have regular and inexpensive access to circuits, one cannot enjoy these cars whilst ALWAYS obeying the speed limits !

    I can appreciate a Z at just 30 mph but you've gotta have some fun or I might just as well keep it in a galss case or sell it to buy a restricted car (those reserved for people who've lost their licence, generally due to alcohol) !

    My favourite speed is also 70 mph !
    1970 240Z wreck
    1973 240Z (almost boringly quick) !
    1977 260Z 2+2
    1981 280ZX 2 seater
    1982 280ZX 2 seater
    1989 300ZX N/A 2+2

    Club Datsun-France - for the cars and the people but most of all for the fun !

  93. #93
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    I'll join the comfortable at 70mph (112kph) onthe highway club. Well even 120 or so in good conditions, but I never really do that.

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    Default Okie Doakie,

    Here we go.

    Sean, I may be an old fart whose get up and go has just about got up and gone but there's still a spark or two left in my distributor.

    If I were to just drive around town or sit on the legal limit on the open road I'd agree with you, BORING !!!!!

    My favorite "drive" is about an hour away from home. It's called the Mount Morgan Range. Steep with sharp bends. Half an hour away is the State Forrest where a lot of fun can be had WITHOUT excessive speed. Rallies are generally held there.

    AHHHHH, now, JUSTIN my young friend. I knew you were only having a dig mate. So was I about the smilie.

    To your question.

    The first car I had was an old Austin A70. The original owner was a bloke named Noah who mainly used it to cart his family between his home and the Marina where he kept his boat, the Ark, moored.
    By the time I got it the poor old thing was clapped out and flat out at 35mph. Had to take the gear changes veeery slowly. If I was a bit rough on the changes, the whole collumn would turn, locking it in that gear until I could pull over.
    Had a lot of fun with that old car but she saw me through till I joined the Army then I didn't need a car.

    So, the answer's no mate, I was never a reckless, lead footed speedster high on petrol fumes but I sure had a lot of fun.

    Bear in mind that, Waaaay back then, most young blokes did'nt have their own cars. Normally you'd beg the "Old Man" to loan you his FJ and, being the "Old Man's", you mostly treated it with kid gloves if you hoped to ever borrow it again.
    The cars that were owned by young blokes were generally clunkers that were noisy petrol guzzlers that could have been used by the Navy to provide a smoke screen for an armada.
    Things really weren't that much different to today though. The blokes who had cars that were in reasonable nick would find a quiet stretch of road and have drags. They'd exceed the speed limit, they'd get caught, booked and fined, just like today, and the oldies would shake their heads and call them irresponsible larrikins. As I do now that I'm an old fart.



    Rick.
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  95. #95
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    Default Re: Okie Doakie,

    Originally posted by 1 Bravo 6 My favorite "drive" is about an hour away from home. It's called the Mount Morgan Range. Steep with sharp bends. Half an hour away is the State Forrest where a lot of fun can be had WITHOUT excessive speed. Rallies are generally held there.
    Ahh...now. Define excessive speed.

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    Sean, what are the specs for a "restricted" car? As for my old fart driving habits, my style hasn't really changed over the years. Never really was a risk taker. Got one ticket in my life(failed to remain stopped at a red light while arguing with my first wife. The cop was the car behind me at the light). Probably the biggest risk I ever take is inhaling the exhaust gases when I go for a ride in the Z with the window down. My sister was the drag racer of the family. I had fun being a passenger while she drag raced down Van Nuys Blvd. every Friday night in her new 64 Corvette. Guess I got my fill. Typical "Valley" kids. Victor.
    Last edited by tanny; 01-19-2004 at 04:14 AM.

  97. #97
    I got 280zx Fever 280zx Fever's Avatar
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    Speeding is speeding.

    there is no safe speeding.

    They set the speed limit because thats ehat the road is safe for.. if you go faster you comprimise saftey endanger others.. even if there is no other people on the road think about this you are someone's brother , uncle , best friend..

    Keep it safe stay in the posted limit.
    1979 280zx Fairlady Z
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  98. #98
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    Originally posted by 280zx Fever

    They set the speed limit because thats ehat the road is safe for..
    I disagree. They set the speed limits at a speed for the lowest combination of driver skill and car ability. It is safe for grandma in her buick riviera boat. A skilled driver in a car that can handle transients would be just as safe at a significantly higher speed.

    A major risk factor on the roads however is speed differential. If grandma is doing 35 in a 45, and you want to speed and do 55, then the differential is 20mph, which gives you very little time to react to anything that grandma does as you try to pass or whatever.

    There is also a major difference between speeding on a limited access highway, and on a city surface street. There are so many more surprises waiting for you on the surface streets, and thus a safe speed will be much slower than on the limited access highway.

    One man's opinion...
    Mark Brandyberry
    1970 240Z (11/69) HLS30 00215
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  99. #99
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    Originally posted by mdbrandy
    I disagree. They set the speed limits at a speed for the lowest combination of driver skill and car ability.
    I disagree with this,partly. I believe that the speed limit also involves the are where through which the road goes. For example, around my area, school zone is 20 mph (24/7 in some places!), business districts are 25 mph, as are residentrial, but regular suburban roads are 35 mph. Rural roads are 45, city highway is 60, and rural highway 65. I read in a car mag once that the speed limit in the remote areas of Arizona is 140 mph...

    Vehicle noise, vahicle safety or pedestrian safety are a major influence (in my area).

    the reasons might be different in your area.

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    Then there is the "other" reason that certain speed limits are placed on certain roads.


    This

    and

    That

    which gives certain municipalities, courts and the Police (er Tax Collectors in that juridiction) a bad name.

    NOTE: this is not meant as a slam to Police Officers in general. Only to those who make a hobby out of entrapment, OK?
    Last edited by Bambikiller240; 01-19-2004 at 02:53 PM.

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