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Thread: Power Output

  1. #1
    Take the cop in 3rd! Deus Ex's Avatar
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    Default Power Output

    Hey Guys.

    Just a quick question about my new Z, i havnt really had a chance to test the power as yet and i thought that you guys might be able to use your experience and give me an idea about power output. It is a L28 with 200B flat top pistons and bored out to 2.9. It has a P40 head (US turbo unit i believe) and triple 35mm Webbers. I has a ground cam and flywheel (cam not that lumpy) mated to a FJ 20 5sp with a 2.5 system. Its a very torquey motor, 1st revs hard but is basically for moving forward and the shift to 2nd is a tricky one, from there is smooth shifting. And driving it nicely to work means driving it slowly, until you get into 2nd and 3rd anyway.

    Just thought you guys might have a rough figure to go by, any imput would be appreciated, i dont wanna get fried by a V6 Commodore because i cant shift .

    (new to fast manuals)

    Thanks
    Im rich Beeatch! HONK! HONK!


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    Formerly Datto-Zed Murph's Avatar
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    Default Re: Power Output

    Originally posted by Deus Ex 1st revs hard but is basically for moving forward and the shift to 2nd is a tricky one, from there is smooth shifting. And driving it nicely to work means driving it slowly, until you get into 2nd and 3rd anyway.
    I think your describing the same thing as I notice with my zed. First gear is rather short and will rev out quickly, but the car doesn't accelerate that hard. Sorta like most of the power goes into reving the motor rather than pushing the car. When you get to 2nd and 3rd then it really starts to pull. That what you mean?

    I find that if I can get some wheel slip off the line so that it doesn't have to rev through the full rev range it's much much faster through first gear.

    I'd imagine you wont have much trouble dispatching most V6 falcodores though.

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    Take the cop in 3rd! Deus Ex's Avatar
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    Yeah thats pretty much it, makes it harder by the fact that the 1st to 2nd shift is hard, i need some practise but yeah 2nd and 3rd is where it counts. Yeah i guess the slip would be easier, has no problems spinning them in the 1st to 2nd shift.

    Its a bastard cause of the MSD ignition the tacho hasnt been calibrated, so i really dont know how hard i am reving it at the moment. Thats makes it hard to run a gear.
    Im rich Beeatch! HONK! HONK!


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    Formerly Datto-Zed Murph's Avatar
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    Try changing the oil in your box. If it hasn't been done in quite a while, it will make a huge difference.

    The short gearing sorta bugs me around town, eg when taking off from lights. Unless you want to rev it a bit you spend all your time shifting gears. Mind you, you'll get to love the flexibility of the motor. Normal driving I'd rarely rev it over 2000rpm and it'll happily haul 3rd gear from bugger all speed if asked to.

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    Take the cop in 3rd! Deus Ex's Avatar
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    Yeah exactly, its either slow or fast, and a ***** in the city. Ill give the gearbox oil a go and see if it makes a difference. Thanks J.

    And now and then its fun to rev it out a bit, but im pretty cautious of the fuel. I might consider straping a bowser to the roof
    Im rich Beeatch! HONK! HONK!


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    Formerly Datto-Zed Murph's Avatar
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    Haha yeah I thought mine was bad enough on fuel.....but you have tripples to contend with.

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    Default

    I have a 260Z 2+2 with a 280zx efi motor (stock but reco'd), 280zx 5sp, 3.7 diff, 2 1/4 exhaust and it was recently dyno'd at 82kw at the wheels.

    it is almost exactly the same in terms of acceleration against stockish VT commodores/EL Falcons. a tad quicker of the line, but the larger 6's have the torque at higher speed.

    The 280zx 5sp has lower ratio's (1st is 3.3 vs 2.9 on the 260Z box) which gives better acceleration off the line, but runs out of breath a bit earlier. Cant say I have any issues shifting from 1st to 2nd though...
    2nd and 3rd is where is pulls well

    i get about 18l/100km - im guessing thats about the same as most of you guys?
    1977 Datsun 260Z 2+2, L28 EFI, 5sp, p/s

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    Formerly Datto-Zed Murph's Avatar
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    I usually get about 14-15L/100km out of mine. It's a basically stock L26 though.

    Out of interest though, what is the powerband in everyone elses zeds like? Mine for example builds power till around 4200, then flattens out, but still makes usable power till 5000, then drops off. There's usually no point reving over 5000rpm. I have heard many others saying they should be able to pull to about 6 however?

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    Registered User Zpeed's Avatar
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    Default

    I had a 260z 2 seater with a freash rebuilt L26, 260z 5spd, 3.9 rear, 240z Su's, extractors and exhaust, 280zx ignition

    i keept with v6 5spds, and burnt all v6 auto's no problem,

    burnt Vl 5ltrs, and other cars of that area, cept for the turbo's of corse, beat Vl 3.ltr N/A autos and 5spd's...

    had alotaa fun in that car


    anyone got one for me they want to sell...
    Nathan
    Melbourne, Australia
    11/73 Datsun 240z HS30-103638 red

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    Registered User 260DET's Avatar
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    He he, mine presently does 220 rwhp. New engine etc coming.

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    Take the cop in 3rd! Deus Ex's Avatar
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    What have you got strapped in yours 260DET?

    Ive been finding that fuel is pretty good since i have been keeping her under 3k as much as possible. But its still great to give it that little bit extra. Havnt really had a chance to take her out for a strap yet, and cause of the MSD i dont know how much i am reving it (the taco needing calibration because of the new ignition). But as soon as my mate gets his Z on the road (Kalium this means you!) let the fun begin.

    Eventually i will get it dynoed when i tune the carbs abit. Also, anyone had experience with MSD's and recalibrating the taco?
    Im rich Beeatch! HONK! HONK!


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    Formerly Datto-Zed Murph's Avatar
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    260DET has an FJ20DET.

    Re the tacho, maybe as a temporary measure by one of the those "car" multimeters that can do rpm. They aren't too expensive from memory.

    Is the MSD a CDI ignition? Or what's the reason it can't be hooked to the stock tacho?

  13. #13
    Take the cop in 3rd! Deus Ex's Avatar
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    Um the reason it cant be hooked up is because it sends a different magnatude of power to the tacho and it pretty much just sits at 9K (Or whatever the max is).

    What was the work around you mentioned?
    Im rich Beeatch! HONK! HONK!


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    Formerly Datto-Zed Murph's Avatar
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    From jaycar:

    STOCK-CODE: QM1442 - Limited
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    Audible continuity beeper and diode test
    Supplied with lead, rubber holster and comprehensive instructions

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    Formerly Datto-Zed Murph's Avatar
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    Or as another temporary measure:

    STOCK-CODE: KC5290
    RRP: $62.95
    Digital Tachometer Display Kit for Cars

    Refer: Silicon Chip April 2000.
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    Kit includes case with silk-screened panel, PCBs, pre-programmed PIC micro, 7 segment displays, red acrilic, hook-up wire and all electronic components.

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    Registered User Brett240's Avatar
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    hey you guys are goin alright! im getting 200 kays out of a tank
    73 240z,
    sequential Fuel injected L28 3 Litre,
    152 KW @ wheels (6800RPM)
    300zx TT Brakes, R200 LSD
    Sydney Australia

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    Registered User Ben's Avatar
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    I get around 300-350 km out of a tank. Power output is sufficient to embarrass XR6 Turbo's.

    The force-fed, but otherwise 100% stock L28E loses efficiency above about 5000rpm. My ported P90, forged pistons & 1-bar of boost will sort out that issue....

    Oh, make sure you have your tach modified to suit the MSD output, or you'll fry it (I have a MSD-6A fitted to my car).
    Ben
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    Hi Ben,
    just put an MSD 6A into mine on the wekeend. how do you modify the tach to make it work??
    73 240z,
    sequential Fuel injected L28 3 Litre,
    152 KW @ wheels (6800RPM)
    300zx TT Brakes, R200 LSD
    Sydney Australia

  19. #19
    Z fever Fun_in_my_z's Avatar
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    I will tell you how much power it makes. Plenty!

    Remember when your dusting that porche or letting that ricer know whos the man, then you will know its not about power, its about pleasure!

    Dont ask cuz yes im nutts!
    HLS30-217804 6/75 "The Unnatural One"

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    Take the cop in 3rd! Deus Ex's Avatar
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    Well i had it tuned and put it on the dyno..115kw at the wheels, about 161rw Hp i think. Not bad, i had hoped for abit more, i didnt get to see the torque curve but im sure that would have been huge.

    So basically im now looking for some easy mods for easy power, putting trumpets on my triple webbers will be the first, then i was thinking of re-grounding my cam to make it alittle mild.

    Anyone have any other suggestions?
    Im rich Beeatch! HONK! HONK!


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    Registered User Brett240's Avatar
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    tell us more about the engine combo, this is where the real power lies. standard L28 crank? what Rods are you using? what diameter are those pistons? Pin height?

    has the head been shaved, ported? what head exactly is it? you said P40? are sure its not a P90?

    how big is the cam you have at the moment?
    73 240z,
    sequential Fuel injected L28 3 Litre,
    152 KW @ wheels (6800RPM)
    300zx TT Brakes, R200 LSD
    Sydney Australia

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    yes it is a p90 running a f54 block tripple 45mm webbers extractors i think its about 2 1/4 2 1/2 inch exaust on it standard crank running 200b flat top pistons other than that its a mystery matt just put a rb20 in it


    cheers doug

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    Registered User Ben's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Brett240
    Hi Ben,
    just put an MSD 6A into mine on the wekeend. how do you modify the tach to make it work??
    I don't know the specifics, I just take the tacho into a gauge workshop & tell them to modify it to suit the square wave output of the MSD rpm signal.

    ~$100AUD later, it's done, calibrated & ready to use!

    Had 2 of my 6-cyl tacho's done so far, one in my MR30 & the other my original 240Z unit.
    Ben
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    South Australia.
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    I got 280zx Fever 280zx Fever's Avatar
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    Default Re: Power Output

    Originally posted by Deus Ex
    It is a L28 with 200B flat top pistons and bored out to 2.9. It has a P40 head (US turbo unit i believe) and triple 35mm Webbers. I has a ground cam and flywheel (cam not that lumpy) mated to a FJ 20 5sp with a 2.5 system.
    35mm webers ? or 35mm chokes ?

    P40 head isnt the turbo unit.. p90 is the l28t head.
    1979 280zx Fairlady Z
    HGS130-000713
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    1981 280zx
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    Originally posted by Deus Ex
    Well i had it tuned and put it on the dyno..115kw at the wheels, about 161rw Hp i think. Not bad, i had hoped for abit more, i didnt get to see the torque curve but im sure that would have been huge.

    So basically im now looking for some easy mods for easy power, putting trumpets on my triple webbers will be the first, then i was thinking of re-grounding my cam to make it alittle mild.

    Anyone have any other suggestions?
    Not easy but,

    Take the p90 off and put a e88 on it (or N42). That will bring the compression up, increasing horsepower. The p90 has larger cc chambers (It has a 53cc chamber) than the e88 because its for a turbo engine, and along with the dished pistons lowers the static compression ratio down for the turbo.

    The p90 is supposed to flow better, but the e88 will have higher compression. Putting it on a flattop L28 motor puts compression in the mid 10's.
    www.nostalgictrio.com Skyline - Silvia - Fairlady Z
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    Take the cop in 3rd! Deus Ex's Avatar
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    OK

    Its seems i have made som etypos (lol) over the course of this post. The details are as follows (thanks for jumping in doug. No doung im not putting an RB in);

    P90 head
    Triple 45mm Webbers
    MSD ignition
    Aparently it has a ground cam but im not sure
    Bored to 2.9L
    200B flat top pistons

    Nothing has been shaved or ported as far as i know. I have no idea about the diameter of the pistons or the length of the rods as all this was done before i bought it and i havnt pulled it apart (gotten doug to pull it apart rather) to look at it.

    I was wondering about the head, being a higher flowing head for a turbo i assumed that it would run a lower compression, but after we pressure tested the cylenders we got an average of 175 Psi. I believe that is relativley high, so if i replaced the head and maybe made the cam mild (again not sure HOW ground it is) that should add more ponies.

    With my setup i believe i should be getting more power, but i have no idea where the bottle neck could be.
    Im rich Beeatch! HONK! HONK!


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    I don't know the specifics, I just take the tacho into a gauge workshop & tell them to modify it to suit the square wave output of the MSD rpm signal.
    fair enough then,
    i have to say im somewhat concerned about the original tacho wirings ability to handle the 460 odd volts that the MSD puts out.

    Deus ex,
    i wouldnt be switching anything until you know exactly what combo you have there, who knows what your compression is now, let alone what it will be if you switch heads
    73 240z,
    sequential Fuel injected L28 3 Litre,
    152 KW @ wheels (6800RPM)
    300zx TT Brakes, R200 LSD
    Sydney Australia

  28. #28
    Registered User Ben's Avatar
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    The MSD 6A series have a male spade connector on the end that is the tacho ouput signal connector. It's a high impedance, low voltage/current square-wave output. There's more infor in the user manual (which is available at http://www.msdignition.com/)

    DO NOT hook up the tacho to anything that even looks like it connects to the coil!
    Ben
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    well now it makes sence! I dont have a manual ill have to download it,
    Thanks Ben
    73 240z,
    sequential Fuel injected L28 3 Litre,
    152 KW @ wheels (6800RPM)
    300zx TT Brakes, R200 LSD
    Sydney Australia

  30. #30
    Take the cop in 3rd! Deus Ex's Avatar
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    hey guys,

    Well its been a while on this thread but i do have more to report, after blowing a head gasket and doing the work (Doug Ray and Jake my personal mechinics. you are a life saver) I have found that my head is indeed ported and polished. I also found that the engine has been balanced and the crank has been liniged. (what ever that is lol)

    We gave this a good clean out and advanced the cam gear to 3. It now pulls alot LOT harder. but i wont know an output till i need to get my carbs tuned again. My compression appears to be around 8.75-9:1, which is alittle higher than standard. I guess the flat top pistons are somwhat negated by the expansive P90 chamber. I was intending to put an N42 onto it, but it needed somework, and my head has aleady been flowed, ported and the intakes mactched.

    ANyhow, i have noticed a significant increase in power, and am very interested to see what it will dyno next. I guess my next step from here is a cam or EFI system (read up on the stroker, the commitment is too large at this stage) and im out of space.

    But as you guys well know, they are a work in progress.
    Im rich Beeatch! HONK! HONK!


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    Registered User Tommo560's Avatar
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    hey guys,

    maybe you have seen one of my posts but i am new to this forum. i have just bought a competition spec 260z. getting it dyno tuned soon, will be interesting to see what power it has as it has... high cams, triple 45mm webers, flat top pistons, ported polished and blueprinted l28 (2.8l) with 2.6 head (10.4 compression???) high intensity(???) spark. this thing is a fuel guzler, it doesnt like to rev less than 2500 because of the cams and the 4.4 rear diff. according to my dad (who has beendriving it) it chews through about as much fuel atm (its a bit rich down low cause its made to rev high being a comp motor) as he gets through in his '93 3l tt toyota supra. its basically set the odometer to zero, and re-fill at 150 miles, ~250k's, (when racing) to make sure you dont run out of fuel cause the gauge doesnt work.

    Tom.

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    Z fever Fun_in_my_z's Avatar
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    Welcome to the club Tom, I bet that car is a wild ride to.

    How does it run in traffic? I keep hereing that race engines run hot at low speed. Do you have this problem?
    HLS30-217804 6/75 "The Unnatural One"

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    Formerly Datto-Zed Murph's Avatar
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    Sounds quite interesting Tommo! Let us know how it goes when you get it on the dyno and/or the track.

    For a comparison on fuel, my zed (basically a stock L26 with 240Z SUs) will do about 250km on 30L of fuel at best. That's driving on the street. Makes 250km from a full tank on the race track seem pretty good.

    P.S. You have any photos of the car?

  34. #34
    Registered User Tommo560's Avatar
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    It runs quite well in traffic but it really fuels up if you idle it for more than about 20-30 seconds. besides the hard to get in and out of racing seat and rough idle it is a very nice car to drive. with the overheating isuue it has a thermo fan so i dont know if that helps but it should.

    some pics of me getting driving instruction at barbagallo raceway, perth, australia.

    http://www.tamiyanitro.com/bbs/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=4653

    Tom.

  35. #35
    Datsaholic Mr Camouflage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tommo560
    hey guys,

    maybe you have seen one of my posts but i am new to this forum. i have just bought a competition spec 260z.

    Tom.
    Welcome Tommo,

    This is a great Forum for Z's, Quite a Few Perth Guys here too. There's an unofficial Z club in Perth, and Z day is coming up soon (26 of september), you should get along, and bring your Z if you can. www.wazcars.com

    Theres also a lot of perth guys on the OZ Dat Forums: www.ozdat.com/forum/ ( go to events -> Perth Datsun Events ) They have organised a cruise for this weekend.
    Last edited by Mr Camouflage; 08-12-2004 at 06:16 AM.
    www.nostalgictrio.com Skyline - Silvia - Fairlady Z
    www.ozdat.com The Australian Datsun site.
    www.cafepress.com/vintagedatsun

  36. #36
    Z fever Fun_in_my_z's Avatar
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    Nice to know there is a fello 16 year old z owner out there.
    Wish mine looked as good as urs does tho.

    It looks like you had a blast.
    Just remmember no tickets! lol
    HLS30-217804 6/75 "The Unnatural One"

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    America

  37. #37
    Registered User zed240au's Avatar
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    I never got better than 300 km from a tank on my std 2.6 240z carbed motor so if your doing 250 on a race motor i reckon your doing great of course i was younger and silly so it was hard driving

    Mick
    240 zed 1971 fitted with v8
    Mazda Rx4 rally car sedan 13b jport

  38. #38
    Registered User Tommo560's Avatar
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    hey billramsay2002,

    it may look good now but the previouse owner concentrated on the go fast bits and now my dad and i will be concentrating on making it a nice ride. new paint big wheels etc...

    something like this would be desireable but is probably unlikely http://www.classiczcars.com/photopos...hp?photo=12005

    Tom.

  39. #39
    Formerly Datto-Zed Murph's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tommo560
    big wheels

    Tom.
    I hope by that you mean 'bigger' and not 19" bling bling chromies 'big'.

  40. #40
    Registered User Tommo560's Avatar
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    no no,

    i mean bigger as in 17" bigger so that at least the rim will fill the guards a bit more. btw, looking through feb '04 fast fours i read about an ozzy 1600 datto cruise, and saw a pic of a 260 with 20" chromes.... it didnt look to good i'll say that much.

    Tom.

  41. #41
    Formerly Datto-Zed Murph's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tommo560
    looking through feb '04 fast fours i read about an ozzy 1600 datto cruise, and saw a pic of a 260 with 20" chromes.... it didnt look to good i'll say that much.
    Ewww... I can't think of anything much worse you could do to an old school z car.

  42. #42
    Registered User MickieB's Avatar
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    I can. My idea of putting fat flares and then 10" back wheels... Glad i was talked out of that one!
    -MickieB

    2002 Holden VU Storm Ute

  43. #43
    Deftly daft Alfadog's Avatar
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    Why??

    http://www.classiczcars.com/photopos...cat=551&page=2

    (Maybe 9", but you get the idea)

  44. #44
    Formerly Datto-Zed Murph's Avatar
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    Yeah nothing wrong with that. Big diameter wheels are just stupid on anything that's going to get driven fast.

  45. #45
    Take the cop in 3rd! Deus Ex's Avatar
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    Ok, i put a new cam in it. To see the effects, go to my last post....

    http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/s...7113#post97113
    Im rich Beeatch! HONK! HONK!


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