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Thread: Useless information. Of interest to some.

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    Z Slave 1 Bravo 6's Avatar
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    Default Useless information. Of interest to some.

    One of the many good things about being retired is that I have the time to completely WASTE my time, whenever I have the time to waste it.

    Today, with nothing on my plate that really NEEDED doing, I dug out the January 2003 edition of Just Cars magazine and carried out a price comparison of cars against the current (January 2005) edition. Now, while I didn't use a calculator, I'm reasonably sure about my results. Keep in mind that this is taken over a two year period and applies to cars that are, quote, "Condition A: The car will be in excellent condition. It is likely to warrant a score of at least 85/100 in a concourse event". And, "The values shown in the Just Worls Cars guide are indicative of the prices that cars will sell for in the current Australian market", end quote.

    The list is far too long to detail each hike in value. Suffice to say that, if you own an early ford or holden, the value has gone up by at least $2,000. (That's for a '69-'74 Capri 1600).

    The biggest hike in value for Ford was for a '69--'70 Mustang Boss 302, up by $18,000, closely followed by a '71-'73 Mustang Mach 1, up by $16,000.

    The poor old Holden's two biggest increases were '72-'74 L.J Torana XU1, up
    by $9,000 and a '69-'70 HT Monaro GTS 350, up by $8,000.

    The biggest hikes by far go to the '62-'68 Cobra 289, up by $140,000 and the '65-'67 Cobra 427, up by $100,000.

    Surprisingly, the various models of MG's and Porches remained static as did, (unfortunately), all models of our beloved Zeds, which are currently valued at:
    Fairlady, '64-'69, $10,000
    240Z, '70-'74, $15,000.
    260Z, '74-'78, $12,000.
    280ZX, '78-'83, $10,000.
    300ZX, '84-'86, $15,000.

    Now, how rediculous is that ?????. To add insult to injury, one of the greatest white elephants of all time, the '73-'75 Leyland P76, rose in value by $2,000.

    Here we are, the proud owners of a Zed, which motoring writers regard as one of the most important cars in motoring history, yet is valued at far less than the makes and models of other marques that were outclassed in every way by the 240Z.

    Ah, well, such is life.
    OOOps, shouldn't say that, look what happened to Ned Kelly.

    Rick.
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    Probably old news now but check this out - the Wall Street Journal shows a fairly healthy rise in 240Z prices over the last ten years

    http://online.wsj.com/public/resour...intVersion=true

    I do however agree with you but unfortunatley supply and demand dictate price rises or not - now had the 240Z had a ferrari badge.......

    Fundamentally, regardless of how good it may be, most people do not want to drive a Datsun, their loss, our gain

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    sorry, just checked the link and it is down - showed a 195% rise in 240Z prices 9in the last ten years, more than most exotic cars. The biggest risers were old school American Muscle cars

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    1978 280Z (stock) TomoHawk's Avatar
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    Never heard of a "Datsun" so why should I buy one?

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    Very interesting Rick. I think Australia has the cheapest 240Z's in the world! Not that I am complaining - just keep the prices low for a few more years until I get another one OK!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZHeadV8
    Probably old news now but check this out - the Wall Street Journal shows a fairly healthy rise in 240Z prices over the last ten years

    http://online.wsj.com/public/resour...intVersion=true
    Do you happen to have the original URL to this? I think your URL has ..... in the middle causing it to be wrong. If you paste the entire thing the system should automatically fix the URL.

    -- MIke
    Mike

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    Registered User 260DET's Avatar
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    The 240/260 certainly seem to have gone up in demand and price in the bloody hot, errr, 'sunshine' State. The Eurosnob cars are still big, the Murrican and Aussie muscle is popular with the show'nshine crowd.

    But competition use of the Z is booming and some of them are no expense spared big dollar cars. Some of their suspension systems are costing more than a really good entire car. In fact it seems that most Z owners now are prepared to put money into their cars whereas not so long ago bragging rights went to those who took pride in spending the least

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    I believe as owners it's our responsibility to set the mark in terms of price. I valued mine at $10,000 when i insured it but to be honest if I remove the rust in the doors I'll say it's worth $12,000. We need to start increasing the prices that's just it alot of people are getting into the Z as a performance car for rally events, racing you name it. It won't be long before the Z will increase and cost far more than any old XU1 piece of junk Torana yuk!

    Some of the Zeds in VicZcar are of exceptional quality and the more Z's like that around that are built to the same quality the higher these cars will start to demand.

    Alfa now is an ideal time to buy a Z while you still can on a shoe string budget.

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    1978 280Z (stock) TomoHawk's Avatar
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    Exactly.

    If supply & demand determine the price of things, then low demand means low price.

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    Registered User Walter Moore's Avatar
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    Low demand only means low price if there is a plentiful supply...

    A friend of mine was lamenting one day that back in '68 he had bought (brand new) a Chevy Nova (SS I think...) with a big block V8, and a Muncie 4 speed. A classic American muscle car. With car prices being what they were back in the day, he spent less than $3000 on it I expect.

    The thing (like most of the late 60's muscle cars) was really poorly built junk. Within two years it was trash. The rear leaf springs had broken (and been replaced) several times. The body was badly rusted, and the frame was saging. He traded in in on a Capri, and got very little for his trade.

    He saw a Nova sell at auction recently that was almost identical to the one he had owned. (when it was new, not when he traded it in.) The car sold for over $100,000.
    (note the U.S. use of a comma to separate the thousands place, not as a decimal point.)

    Very few people WANT a 60's Nova, but for those that do, there are almost none left in existance. The same sort of twisted logic applies to many other cars as well.

    Lots of people want a "Z" car, but in the shall we say "less moist" parts of the world there is still a good supply of them.
    '71 240Z, Because any fool can drive fast in a straight line.

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    Z Slave 1 Bravo 6's Avatar
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    Gavin, me old china,

    Just Cars values the '70-'71 LC Torana XU-1 at $20,000 and the '72-'74 L J Torana XU-1 at $24,000. TWICE that of a Zed.

    While I'd like nothing better than to see the value of Zeds skyrocket I fear that it won't be for quite a while yet.

    I reckon I could get around 11K for Precious as she stands. Now, if I were to put a price of, say, --20K on her, any prospective buyer would pass me by and buy yours for 10K.

    Sure, we can "Set the mark in terms of price", but we have to be realistic at the same time.

    It's not the availability or the number of cars of a model still on the road that determines it's value. It's the NAME !! The MARQUE!! The BRAND !!.

    There must be THOUSANDS more MGB's than Zeds around and their value is 25K.

    What's the answer ??????

    Buggered if I know mate.

    Rick.
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    The answer is simple we need to all pull our fingers out and start putting our Z's into competitions and winning against these MGB's and Torana's. Problem is the Z did well in competition in it's day but not really in Australia. They raced a 2+2 at Bathurst then pulled the plug.

    Shame really but things are changing and Z's are becomming more sort after.

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    Registered User 260DET's Avatar
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    Zeds are doing well in competition, those non-owners with knowledge admit that the Zed is a good car. 1B6 is right, to put it more crudely its snobbery. I call them Eurosnobs, you have the German snobs and their overpriced, overengineered deutchwagens, then you have the British car snobs. Even though most British cars are rubbish compared with the Zed.

    Japanese cars are broadly associated with the lower end of the motorsport social scale, therefore their value is tied to that. But I don't care, love porkin the Porka's

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    260Det's pretty well spot on.
    Go to a car show. Get talking with the owner of, say, an MG or Healy. Watch his eyes, (I always do), when you say, "I own a Zed".

    Car shows up here usually attract over a hundred cars. A good example is Classics By The Coast, held in May last year.

    All the usual marques were there; Mustangs, MG's, Fords and Holdens etc.
    Mine was the ONLY ZED. I was amazed at the number of people who asked me what it was. Mainly younger people. Older people remembered them, some admitted to having owned one and had very fond memories. But the younger ones, -----------
    "What is it?"
    "Is it a Jag?"
    "Haven't seen one of these before"
    And so on and so forth.

    Therein lies another part of the problem. Zeds are NOT WELL KNOWN.
    Mr. & Mrs. General Public will usually identify an early Ford, Holden, MG, Chevy, Chrysler etc., but show them a Zed and you'd have no trouble at all convincing them that it's a very rare, one off prototype of a compact E Type Jag as I did about eighteen months ago.

    And the poor bugger BELIVED me.

    Even if your car is NOT up to show standard, we need to put them into shows so people will start to recognise them. My "Precious" isn't up to a prize winning standard but I put her into shows at every oportunity. I'm even having people say things like, "Yes, I saw this car in Yeppoon the other day".

    We need to develope the public's interest in the Zed.

    I made up a board that I display at car shows detailing the Zeds success in events such as the East African Safari and the Monte Carlo Rally. Even people who claim to have owned Zeds in the past are surprised at their history.


    Rick.
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    http://viczcar.com/Photos/Meetings/C...004/index.html you mean shows like this? Miles ahead of you!

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    Default Z scarcity

    No worries mates! When you figure in the the 240z's accellerating ROR(Rate of Rust) factor, the supply should be shriveling like the dessert tray at an Overeaters Anonymous convention buffet. Then the people with Zs in vacuum storage will rake in the bucks! Victor.
    73 Z, 06 Honda civic

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    Why does anyone want the prices of Zeds to rise !?!?

    I cant understand it...Im not going to sell mine, so why do I care if its worth $15,000, or $50,000.

    I didnt think that most of the crowd here were the "I wouldn't sell my zed...unless it was the right price"...I guess economics always wins out

    Meanwhile If I want to buy a 240 to do up I have to pay $4,000 for a rusted out bucket of junk

    Bring those prices down I say !

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    Some people feel the need to be able to say "Look at me, My car is worth $$$XXXX"; others are satisfied maintaining/improving, driving and enjoying it.

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    Those are your typical American vices:

    1- Vanity
    2- Greed
    3- Fear

    In that order. "Americans" do everything for one or more of those reasons.

    (Vanity) "I DESERVE a $50,000 car because I have a good job, and I'll look great."
    (Greed) "Look at my $50,000 car. It's great."
    (Fear) if I don't have a $50,000 car, people will think I'm a loser."

    Even people who drive a Zed do it:

    (Vanity) "I love my cool Zed with the rust spot and the worn seats."
    (Greed) "I want a Zed with the carbs and the 150 hp L24."
    (Fear) "I want to get a Zed before they're all rusted apart or cost $50,000!"

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    No more fog! eulb1's Avatar
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    Yeah Fear thatís me.

    Keep the prices down until I get my 2nd Z, or 3rd. I need a house in the country with a big shed first. Besides series 1 parts are high enough now.
    5/70 240Z #HLS30-04831
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    Im glad I held off posting.

    I could have said something vain .

    Seriously my Z has never been about the cost of building it or the money I'd get back if I "WERE" to sell her. It's been about completing a project and improving the car aethetically and mechanically and doing a job of the upmost highest standard.

    Then just enjoying the ride!

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    Quote Originally Posted by TomoHawk
    Those are your typical American vices:

    1- Vanity
    2- Greed
    3- Fear

    In that order. "Americans" do everything for one or more of those reasons.
    .................
    Those are the BIG THREE, but I don't think you'll find that these are limited to "Americans". There is plenty of all of these things throughout the world.

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    Yair Carl, your dead right mate. We've got our share of greedy, money hungry buggers down here as well. Does the name Christopher Skase mean anything to you ????

    Why do I want to see the value of Zeds go UP?
    Because they DESERVE to be at least as expesive as an MGB or C, Healey 3000,Triumph etc. I've had my share of snobbish owners look down their noses at me when I mention the word ZED. I even had the owner of a pissy little Sprite say I was crazy.

    I intend for "Precious" to be passed on through my future descendants as a family heirloom. It's the recognition for a great little car that I want, not the dollars.

    Gavin,

    A snippet of info that might interest you is that in the Australian Southern Cross Rally held in 1972, Zeds took out 1st in it's class and 2nd overall.

    Rick.
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    1 bravo 6, at least you know at the shows you got the best zed there hehe.

    I'm building mine up for shows, and yeah i agree, people just don't know them. But there again, sometimes you're surprised by how many people do know them. I hope they stay cheap really. I don't plan on selling mine, but i do plan on buying the rest of them
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    1978 280Z (stock) TomoHawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bambikiller240
    Typical American vices:

    1- Vanity
    2- Greed
    3- Fear

    Those are the BIG THREE, but I don't think you'll find that these are limited to "Americans". There is plenty of all of these things throughout the world.
    You're probably right Carl, but I thougtht I'd stick to what I know "for sure."

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    Is 'fear' a vice?
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    Quote Originally Posted by sblake01
    Is 'fear' a vice?
    If I recall them in the correct order they are gluttony, sloth, envy, wrath, pride, lust, and greed. That's from the movie 'Seven' and actually they are sins rather than vices but there's alot of all of them throughout the world.

    (Sorry about that but remember the name of the thread )
    Last edited by sblake01; 12-21-2004 at 06:08 PM.
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    By vice I mean "a moral weakness." Vices get you to do things you don't really need to do, like a $50,000 car when an $18,000 one will do. When people let vanity, greed and fear control their actions, it's bad, IMO, because you take from one place to the other to satisfy the vice.
    FWIW

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    Quote Originally Posted by TomoHawk
    You're probably right Carl, but I thougtht I'd stick to what I know "for sure."
    I can understand that.

    But in a brief scan of international news websites I found stories from around the globe that seem (IMO) to confirm that these vices are international. Wherever people are found................

    (Viktor Yushchecnko being poisoned with Dioxin is just one example, problems in Rwonda and Demcratic Republic of Congo is another)

    Notice I left out the USA and Middle East? It's not because there aren't problems in both of these places.
    Last edited by Bambikiller240; 12-21-2004 at 09:47 PM.

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    By vice I mean "a moral weakness." Vices get you to do things you don't really need to do, like a $50,000 car when an $18,000 one will do.
    Its a moral weakness if you want to drive a certain car and can afford it? If you buy a 50k car and can't afford it thats a diffrent story. But a person chooses to drive an expensive automobile its their choice not a sign of moral weakness. Hell if you think an 18k car is cheap why not buy a 3k honda and drive it ? I think that would make you feel maybe morally better? My next door neighbor got a 2 year old Champion Optioned 911 which I gather probably cost him a tad bit more than 50 k probably 55-65 . But he is the same guy who wears torn up shirts and drives a half restored mustang somedays and others drives a chevy pickup . He like most people I know who own more expensive cars enjoy the car and driving it , and yes likes the attention to a degree but if the attention was the biggest priority it would be driven more than once every two weeks or so .

    I think if anything envy would be what we all would be guilty of, because weither my 2 240z's are pristine or not or worth 500 bucks or 25k it wouldn't make a diffrence to the person at the light next to us or driving down the road trying to get a better view or get a chance to talk to us about it. I am glad to see the price of the Z's reach a respectable level but at the same time it removes new/old z owners from being able to buy /restore or maintain them. Sorry about the rant
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bambikiller240
    Some people feel the need to be able to say "Look at me, My car is worth $$$XXXX"; others are satisfied maintaining/improving, driving and enjoying it.


    Which one are you Carl?


    Umm, you have way too much time on your hands Rick and I just have to say that I can't wait to be in your position. Maybe not with the age thing and all but you get what I mean.

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    By George, George,
    Good to see you back on deck mate.
    Last I heard from you, you were considering an offer on your car.
    What happened ???????????

    Rick.
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    Realised I was being an idiot and woke up to myself.

    Glad to be back

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