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Thread: Correct fender bolts and washers

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    Default Correct fender bolts and washers

    I need a little help in remembering what was correct with the fender to inner hood securing bolts and washers, as my fenders have been off and on in various stages of restoration by different people. My car is a very late series 1 240z manuf. in 1/71.
    There are 5 bolts and washers on each fender, 3 to secure the inner fender,
    and 2 to secure the headlight housing to the inner fender.

    My questions are:

    1. Are all, or part, of these 5 bolts phillips hex head bolts, or just hex
    head bolts?

    2. The fender washers are, I think, 18mm OD washers. Do some, or
    all, of these washers have a cut off edge so as to clear the flared
    lip of the inner fender flange?

    If anyone with a pretty unmolested series 1 car would like to take a look at their car, It would be greatly appreciated.

    Dan

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    240Z Elec. Upgrade guy Zs-ondabrain's Avatar
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    5 bolts (hex head) per side. 10 in total
    4 philips head screws for the hood stoppers (black rubber centering guide blocks)
    6 flat side washers and 4 regular washers 18mm

    You're always better off using Stainless but ALWAYS use anti-seize in that area (and almost every area on the Z's.) I also like chrome or zinc coated and I like allen head screws on the rubber hood guides (on the fender)
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    Last edited by Zs-ondabrain; 02-24-2008 at 08:15 PM.
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    Default Correct fender bolts

    Dan,

    I looked at some pictures I took of an unmolested Z and with original paint and it shows the bolts along the top edge of the fender are all a regular head and not ones with a phillips style insert in the head. They are not a mixture. I hope this is helpful.
    ZULAYTR

    72 240Z
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    94 300ZX TT SMZ #11
    96 300ZX NA

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zulaytr View Post
    Dan,

    I looked at some pictures I took of an unmolested Z and with original paint and it shows the bolts along the top edge of the fender are all a regular head and not ones with a phillips style insert in the head. They are not a mixture. I hope this is helpful.
    Bob, good to hear from you. I could have sworn that those hex head bolts had the phillips cross. Did you happen to notice if the fender washers were cut off or flattened on one side so as to not hit that flared lip on the fender flange? And, didn't all of these bolts also have lock washers installed? Sometimes these lock washers were removed, possibly by dealers I've been told, if there was a clearance issue with the edge of the hood. Any comments on any of these items would be most welcome.

    Thanks also to Zs-ondabrain for his comments which confirms what seems to be a unanimous answer to my questions.

    Dan
    Original Owner/hls30-20419

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    Default Correct fender bolts

    Dan,

    The did have lock washers and flat washers. The flat washers are not cut off at the bottom. They are only slightly bigger than the lock washer so they do not have a clearance issue. As far as bolts with a phillips style head you will find them on the hood hinges. It is easy to mix these up when the car is taken apart. I have had to correct some on mine as well.

    Take care and I hope you are getting a chance to drive your Z.
    ZULAYTR

    72 240Z
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    94 300ZX TT SMZ #11
    96 300ZX NA

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zulaytr View Post
    Dan,

    The did have lock washers and flat washers. The flat washers are not cut off at the bottom. They are only slightly bigger than the lock washer so they do not have a clearance issue. As far as bolts with a phillips style head you will find them on the hood hinges. It is easy to mix these up when the car is taken apart. I have had to correct some on mine as well.

    Take care and I hope you are getting a chance to drive your Z.
    It sounds like you may be looking at pictures of a much later 240z, Bob. I am fairly certain that the flat washers were 18mm OD, much larger than the lock washers, which does hit that lip on my car and gets into the paint. I know that at least two of mine originally had one side filed down so as not to hit this lip but can not recall if all six had been flatten on one edge. Aren't the hood hinge bolts a larger bolt than the fender bolts? I am certain mine are larger, but will have to check when I return to Phoenix this week.
    This is interesting, though, as it seems to be raising more questions than expected.
    Bob, is the carpet set that you had made the loop pile or cutt pile carpet?
    I noticed that you removed the AC from your car, and I am thinking of doing the same to make life simpler. I do drive the car occasionally just to keep everything maintained or for club activities.

    Dan

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    Default Correct fender bolts and washers

    Dan,

    I looked at some other photos I have and also on Kats website since his is a 3/70 and all I see are the washers I described earlier. None were as you described with flat edges. That is not to say that at some point in time they may some changes in producton which tended to be a common occurance. That is one reason why it is so hard to pinpoint when parts changed during the production cycle of the Z.

    The carpet I have now is the set Les had made for me. It is a wool cut pile. If you go that route you will have to install the snaps in the front.

    I did remove my A/C candidly because it was a R143 system and it used a rotary compressor. This was a quick 10 point deduction for GM judging. The system worked fine but again due to judging standards it had to come out.

    I hope this helps. Let me know what you find out about the washers.

    Regards,

    Bob
    ZULAYTR

    72 240Z
    ZCCA Gold Medallion & AACA Senior Grand National Award
    94 300ZX TT SMZ #11
    96 300ZX NA

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zulaytr View Post
    Dan,
    I looked at some other photos I have and also on Kats website since his is a 3/70 and all I see are the washers I described earlier. None were as you described with flat edges.

    The carpet I have now is the set Les had made for me. It is a wool cut pile. If you go that route you will have to install the snaps in the front.

    I did remove my A/C candidly because it was a R143 system and it used a rotary compressor. This was a quick 10 point deduction for GM judging.
    Regards,
    Bob
    Thanks, Bob. I have concluded that the bolts are just hex head but some of the washers I've seen on some early cars do have a few of the flat-sided washers, as I vaguely recall mine did.

    I am going to do the loop pile which was original to the series 1 cars, wool if I can find it wide enough, otherwise the synthetic fiber. I, also, have some good leads on natural fibre jute, probably not as good as what Kats has found. Just need to find a good set of patterns for carpet in the footwells, and areas behind the seats and under the plastic tool covers. Where were you able to find the female, I guess, snaps that mated up with the original male half on the firewall padding?

    I am still working on those gold emissions decals, the challenge is the real enjoyment, and am getting very close to something very good, I think.

    Thank for the additional info Bob, and keep any thoughts or comments coming.

    Dan

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    I've NEVER seen a 240Z that DID'NT have the 6 flat edge 18mm washers. Occasionally I'll see them with lock washers but they are very close to hitting the edge of the hood.

    As for the 4 black hood bumpers (on the fenders) I also haven't seen them without the philips head screws, not hex head bolts. Unless an 8mm head is used, you can't fit a 10mm hexhead bolt into the black hood bumpers.

    Dave
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zs-ondabrain View Post
    I've NEVER seen a 240Z that DID'NT have the 6 flat edge 18mm washers. Occasionally I'll see them with lock washers but they are very close to hitting the edge of the hood.

    As for the 4 black hood bumpers (on the fenders) I also haven't seen them without the philips head screws, not hex head bolts. Unless an 8mm head is used, you can't fit a 10mm hexhead bolt into the black hood bumpers.

    Dave
    Hi Dave,

    I agree that the 18mm washers used for the 6 fender bolts, 3 on each side, should probably be flat sided so as not to interfere with with curled lip of the fender flang. I think you misunderstood about the hex head bolts, with or without the phillips cross. I was refering to the bolts that are used with the above washers to secure the fender, not the screws for the four rubber bumpers. Thanks

    Dan

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zs-ondabrain View Post
    I've NEVER seen a 240Z that DID'NT have the 6 flat edge 18mm washers. Occasionally I'll see them with lock washers but they are very close to hitting the edge of the hood.

    As for the 4 black hood bumpers (on the fenders) I also haven't seen them without the philips head screws, not hex head bolts. Unless an 8mm head is used, you can't fit a 10mm hexhead bolt into the black hood bumpers.

    Dave
    Hi Dave,

    I agree that the 18mm washers used for the 6 fender bolts, 3 on each side, should probably be flat sided so as not to interfere with with curled lip of the fender flang. I think you misunderstood about the hex head bolts, with or without the phillips cross. I was refering to the bolts that are used with the above washers to secure the fender, not the screws for the four rubber bumpers. Thanks

    Dan

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    Dave, I totally agree that at least some of these 6 washers have a flat, or cut off side with some of the lock washers missing for hood clearance issues.


    I think that you misunderstood about the hex head bolts, with or without, the phillips cross in the head. I was refering to the bolts used with those 18mm washers, not to the screws for the rubber bumpers.

    Thanks for the input.

    Dan

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    240Z Elec. Upgrade guy Zs-ondabrain's Avatar
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    I totally under stand the question and comment. I was pointing out to Bob what went where on all the Z's I've worked on or seen. You are correct about the solid hex head bolts on the flat sided washers that go on the fenders, they prevent the washer from digging into the paint on the lip of the fender when you raise or adjust the fender height.

    Just please remember to use the anti seize on those bolts. I've never seen one come out easily. They usually break off from rust because of the wheels throwing water up there, or water coming off the hood. Stainless is a god-send on that location.

    Have fun,
    Dave.

    By the way, mine is an 8/70.
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    I've noticed the bolts on the front guards are the hex head but are low profile to clear the bonnet when it is shut. My 240 is a early 70 model and it has the larger washers with the bit shaved off. I havent seen those bolts anywhere else on the car.

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    AZ-240z:
    The two "D" shaped washers you have - go on the fenders where they lift slightly to cross the radiator core support. (if you only have two of them -that is where they go). A lot of times you'll find them farther back, simply because the assembler had a hand full of them at the time (I'm guessing - no other rime no reason I can find)

    Many early cars also have hex-head bolts that have a low shoulder (look like bolts that have had the head ground down) - they were used in the headlight nacelles - so they didn't stick out and hit the hood before the hood hits the bump stops. This was because the manufacturing tolerances on the headlight sugar scoops / nacelles were pretty broad, and they vary in thickness.

    Just my take...
    Carl B.


    Carl Beck
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    Carl, Dave, dimitri, Bob,

    Thanks for your research and time taken to check out my questions. I agree with the majority opinion here, hex head bolts and shaved washers. As carl stated the number of shaved washers could be somewhat random but were found on the fenders and not on the headlight housings.
    Carl makes another good point. I was going to leave all of the lock washers off because a few bolts have a clearance issue with the hood. Should I leave just those lock washers off, or grind the head of the bolt on those areas, or leave all lock washers off for the sake of uniformity? Thanks

    Dan

    Dave, good point about the anti-seize, but the only water my cars sees is from a bucket of soapy water.
    Last edited by AZ-240z; 02-26-2008 at 08:39 PM. Reason: revised

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