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Thread: How to deal with Hatch Compartment Rust?

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    Registered User mikewags's Avatar
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    Default How to deal with Hatch Compartment Rust?

    Today I began the mission of cleaning the hatch floor area. After removing the spare tire, i found what looks to be like the most rust my car has (could be worse) ... I scrubbed the area clean with a semi-wet sponge; including some of the rusty residue off. I know a wet sponge isn't exactly the best idea vs. rust; although I just wanted to get the area cleaned up a bit before I proceeded to deal with the rust. From the look, I think its just bad surface rust...it doesn't really rust through completely.

    My question...

    What would be the best way to tackle rust like this? Would you suggest grinding it off, then painting over it; or do they make good rust removing chemicals that won't wreak havoc on my paint?

    http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...Car/hatch2.jpg

    http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3.../Car/hatch.jpg
    Last edited by mikewags; 06-27-2008 at 07:34 PM.
    11/75 - 1976 280Z - #HLS30-282,503
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    Known Zitus carrier! hls30.com's Avatar
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    Your links don't work! Photo moved or Deleted...
    There are many rust eating/converting chemicals Metal Ready, Ospho, Naval Jelly, etc.
    If it hasn't perferated the sheet metal, I would suggest a rust eating product and then a suitable sealer.
    Will
    A Z is beautiful from any angle, I just happen to prefer to view from the drivers' seat!

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    Registered User mikewags's Avatar
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    The links should work now...
    11/75 - 1976 280Z - #HLS30-282,503
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    Registered User MEZZZ's Avatar
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    I would suggest buying a product called POR-15. I bought mine on Ebay. The only thing is it is meant to go on bare metal, meaning you would have to strip the spare tire area using a wire wheel on a drill or the sort. Once you do that, use the marine clean, then metal ready, then the paint. Stuff is hard as nails and should prevent any further problems. I bought the 3 part "sample" kit (pint of each) for about $20 bucks, would be a great size for what you need to do.
    1977 280Z
    I'm great at taking my Z apart, putting it back together has been a whole different story.

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    1978 280Z (stock) TomoHawk's Avatar
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    I saw some POR products at the NAPA store in quart cans...
    Drive Responsibly.
    enjoy classic Rock music.

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    I believe that POR stands for "Paint Over Rust", that being said ... Hmmm there's really not much else to say, but I will anyway
    My personal experience was to remove flaking and loose rust with a wire brush and paint right over it - worked great.
    I don't believe that you need to take the chance of passing right through the floor by using excessive force just to remove all hints of rust as this is designed to seal the surface without having to entirely strip it. The Marine clean is a degreaser/cleaner - marketing.
    Last edited by Sailor Bob; 06-28-2008 at 03:17 AM.
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    Registered User mikewags's Avatar
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    Thanks guys. I will try that out this weekend, removing the rust with a drill-wire brush; cleaning it up, then applying the POR paint. I'm not too concerned with the mis-match in paint (I assume POR is like a primer color) - I just want to make sure the rust is gone, so it doesn't cause any further corrosion.
    11/75 - 1976 280Z - #HLS30-282,503
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    Supporting Member EScanlon's Avatar
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    You can get POR in Black, Silver or "Clear" (which ends up being kind of milky white, unless exposed to UV rays, in which it turns kind of greenish).

    Before you begin wire brushing, remove the tar mat. Otherwise you will NOT be removing or addressing all the rust that's hidden underneath that tar. Voice of Experience here. Trust me, in that area, it can be like an iceberg... 2/3 hidden.

    Once you remove the tar mat, then either wire brushing, or Scotch pad disk clean up will clean it up enough to proceed.

    Since you're planning on using the POR, do all 3 steps as they instruct: Marine Clean, Metal Prep and lastly the POR.

    While Marine Clean may be "just" a degreaser do NOT use it without gloves. You will leach out every last bit of oil in your fingertips and you will find your skin cracking and feeling as if you "numbed" it. Again, VOE here.

    The Metal Prep is a phosphoric acid with some other ingredients added in. This is probably the most critical for proper adhesion to bare metal, and rusted metal. If you're painting POR over painted surfaces, be sure to scuff them up well, or you'll find that the POR WILL act like a decal on the painted surface. It won't peel up off the metal, but it WILL peel off the paint. VOE.

    When you paint the POR, don't just use a dust mask. Use a paint respirator, the ones with the carbon canister filters. When they recommend that you have plenty of air movement, the're not just suggesting. This isn't just a hint, it's a huge WARNING. Have I said VOE before?

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    beandip beandip's Avatar
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    I have used quite a lot of POR and I agree with EScanlon . If you are only doing the spare tire tub and have good ventilation you wont have any problem with the fumes. It is a different thing if you were doing a large area or spraying it on. You will find the paint will flow out when brushed on to the point that it looks like it was sprayed on. If you wish to spray the car color over the POR do it BEFORE it cures when it is still a little tacky , this way the color paint will bond. If you are going to apply POR over a painted surface , like was already said scuff it off first like you would for any other paint. However treat he whole area to be covered with POR paint with the marine clean and metal ready following the directions on the can. It loves skin and becomes permanent when allowed to cure. If you don't take it off right away it will have to wear off your skin. Trust me on that. I disagree with Sailor Bob on the Marine clean being just a degreaser. It will etch aluminum so don't use it on polished aluminum parts as a cleaner/degreaser. It has more in it than just a cleaner. Again experience. The tester kit should be plenty for the job shown. Gary
    I'd rather die while I am living than live while I am dieing. CZC 1887 IZCC 12602 Member of NorthWest Z Car Club

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    Registered User mikewags's Avatar
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    So you think theres more rust under the tar mat?

    Would you suggest replacing the mat when all is said and done?
    11/75 - 1976 280Z - #HLS30-282,503
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    Supporting Member EScanlon's Avatar
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    I'd almost bet that you'll find some rust under that tar mat in the spare tire bin.

    As far as replacing it, I did. After I had painted the POR everywhere.

    While POR is good for rust-protection and encapsulation, it doesn't do much as far as sound attenuation, which is what the tar mat is mostly for.

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    Registered User mikewags's Avatar
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    BUMP* This is what i've done today to the spare tire well.

    First I removed the tar paper.

    Sanded with a drill-wire brush. Got the metal pretty bare, then prepped the well with newspaper and tape. Covered with the rust spray paint. One solid coat, looks much better. Painted only half down the well.

    http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...parefixed2.jpg

    http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...sparefixed.jpg

    Considering replacing the matt, (btw: luckily there wasn't any rust under it) ...

    Any idea where I can get one? It just seemed like tacky tar paper. Would there be better sound dampening material I can lay in there?
    Last edited by mikewags; 06-29-2008 at 03:51 PM.
    11/75 - 1976 280Z - #HLS30-282,503
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    Registered User texasz's Avatar
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    I used POR Putty to fill in the holes, sanded it all down, then used POR-15 products over the area.
    '70 240Z - HLS30-08215 - Production Date 8/70
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    '71 240Z - HLS30-018482 - Production Date 1/71,Corvette Yellow, driven under a 4Runner, bought for parts, hit lotto with parts on car, may fix and put back on road

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    Mid-life Crisis Sailor Bob's Avatar
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    Looks too nice to put a spare tire in
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    1978 280Z (stock) TomoHawk's Avatar
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    The reason why it got that way is from the collapsable tire & rim rubbing on the bottom.
    Drive Responsibly.
    enjoy classic Rock music.

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    Amateur grease monkey twsutt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TomoHawk View Post
    The reason why it got that way is from the collapsable tire & rim rubbing on the bottom.
    The car in question is a 1975 280z - Full Size Spare not a collapsable spare like on your 1978.

    Note that in the first two pictures the imprint in the tar insulation clearly shows where the sidewall made contact (you can even tell that the maker was Bridgestone.) The rust appears to be located where no rubbing took place. It's just a common spot for rust on our Z's - like so many other places.
    Last edited by twsutt; 06-30-2008 at 01:07 PM.
    Terence W. Sutton
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    Registered User mikewags's Avatar
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    Any idea of where I can replace the tar mat? Better material to lay down instead, for maybe heat/sound dampening?

    Suggestions?
    11/75 - 1976 280Z - #HLS30-282,503
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    beandip beandip's Avatar
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    I used a brand of material called ultimate from B-Quiet . Bought it on line. for just a little space like that , just go to a automotive paint supply. They should have some Tar Mat or some thing similar. The Ultimate has a sticky back and it has a foil face. Sandwiched under the foil is a matt of tar material. So you can cut it with heavy scissors or a utility knife, peal off the back covering and stick it on. It will not come off once pressed in place. Comes in 12'' wide by what ever length , up to 50'. I used two fifty foot rolls. But I covered most of the inside and inside the doors plus the back side of the plastic trim panels and inside the rear fenders over by the antenna and gas fill area. As escanlon said this stuff is for attenuation, the drum effect, and it does not absorb the sound. Gary
    I'd rather die while I am living than live while I am dieing. CZC 1887 IZCC 12602 Member of NorthWest Z Car Club

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    HS30-00352, HS30-101370 240znz's Avatar
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    If you want it to be original, then buy some bitumen based sound deadener, make a pattern out or paper, trace, cut, lay then heat it a tad with a heat gun to make it easier to mould into the folds etc. Then you will need to prime it several times to stop the bitumen bleeding through the top coat.

    If you aren't concerned about originality, then any sound deadener will do.

    But for me, I doubt that that area will have much of a drum effect. I'm just going to cut some jute to fit, secure the spare. That's it. Once the deck jute and carpet are in place, I doubt you'd know the difference.
    Zed not Zee

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    Registered User texasz's Avatar
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    Here's a link to a pic of mine before the work was started (when I looked at this car to buy it there was 2" of standing water in the tire well due to a leaky hatch seal): Ugliness before fixing

    Here's a link to a couple pix of mine after I completed it: Beautiful tire well after repairs completed
    Last edited by texasz; 07-01-2008 at 06:18 AM.
    '70 240Z - HLS30-08215 - Production Date 8/70
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    1978 280Z (stock) TomoHawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twsutt View Post
    The car is a 1975 280z - Full Size Spare not a collapsable spare like on your 1978.
    Not to hijack this topic, but do you think a 78 could be fitted with a full-size well for the spare? It would be great to be able to get that tire a little lower in there.

    thxZ
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    Registered User mikewags's Avatar
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    Looks good Texasz, did you use black enamel to seal that? I was thinking of putting a sealer down over the rubberized undercoat I sprayed onto the well itself.

    Nice job.
    11/75 - 1976 280Z - #HLS30-282,503
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    Known Zitus carrier! hls30.com's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TomoHawk View Post
    Not to hijack this topic, but do you think a 78 could be fitted with a full-size well for the spare? It would be great to be able to get that tire a little lower in there.

    thxZ
    Sure Tomohawk,
    If you drop the tank three to four inches you could put the fullsize tub in, but I am not sure having one to two inches of ground clearance at the gas tank would make me want to do it
    Will
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    Registered User texasz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikewags View Post
    Looks good Texasz, did you use black enamel to seal that? I was thinking of putting a sealer down over the rubberized undercoat I sprayed onto the well itself.

    Nice job.
    I don't remember off hand other than it was POR-15. I could look over the weekend if that would help you.
    '70 240Z - HLS30-08215 - Production Date 8/70
    '70 240Z - HLS30-06293 - Rusty and has Identity Crisis (must have been wrecked and the back 1/2 sectioned in from a later car maybe even a 280Z)...PARTS CAR!
    '71 240Z - HLS30-018482 - Production Date 1/71,Corvette Yellow, driven under a 4Runner, bought for parts, hit lotto with parts on car, may fix and put back on road

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikewags View Post
    Looks good Texasz, did you use black enamel to seal that? I was thinking of putting a sealer down over the rubberized undercoat I sprayed onto the well itself.

    Nice job.
    If you put that rubber tire on top of a rubberized undercoating - and leave it there for a year or so - which is all to typical - please let us know what you find the next time you take the spare out...

    Depending upon the exact materials used - you may need an air hammer. At the very least I'd put a layer of wax paper between the two.

    FWIW,
    Carl B.

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    I used bedliner as a top coat in that area-it is a urethane product, so hopefully it will be non-reactive to tires-or atleast that was my thought.
    Will
    A Z is beautiful from any angle, I just happen to prefer to view from the drivers' seat!

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