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Thread: Who needs rubber?

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    Registered User conedodger's Avatar
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    Default Who needs rubber?

    During the restoration of my Porsche 914 I developed a relationship with a manufacturer of rubber weatherstripping. Well, more specifically, an engineer who works with manufacturing rubber parts. We were both frustrated by the complete abandonment by Porsche of parts to restore our cars. We aren't quite that bad off with the Z probably due to the Z Store project from the 90's but still, some of the rubber parts are NLA or of poor quality.
    I was chatting with my friend Mark yesterday and I said that I was installing my Precision Rubber Kit and I was hoping that other stuff that wasn't available through that kit would be available through Datsun (Nissan). He offered that we could make Z car parts as well.
    Now, I should tell you - what we did was to reproduce as faithfully as possible by reverse engineering the original parts when they could be found. Mark made everything from 914 Targa seals to clutch cable rollers. If he found that the original part had a longevity problem, he improved it like using aluminum when the steel mounting tabs tended to rust.
    He didn't try to make money on it either. What we are trying to do is offset the cost of the R&D and set-up by making a hundred instead of the 2 we needed. In some cases, big 914 specialty stores like Automobile Atlanta did order 500 at a time but in most cases we just sold direct in group buys at very low prices.
    Now here is the question. What do we need in the 240Z world that is no longer available and not reproduced?
    In some cases we may need to find someone who has a NOS part they are willing to let us borrow to reverse engineer the parts. These kind souls would get their parts back intact with the only damage being they had been removed from their plastic bags.
    Not trying to make money on this. In most cases, the parts we produce should be less than what Nissan sold them for. If there is interest, I will post pictures of some of the stuff Mark has made for the Porsche world.
    One such project is the front bumper 'tits' that came on the 914. NLA and when they were, the were about $450 each, Mark reproduced them with stainless mounting studs instead of the originals which rusted badly for $80 each. Taillight gaskets for $2 each.
    So, what should we make?
    That is a pair our 'tits' on the green car in the pic. We even have the endorsement of the biggest concours weenie we know in the Porsche world. He poo-poo'd the effort until we produced something he desperately needed then tried it and bought more. Now he says Mark's work is indistinguishable from original.
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    Last edited by conedodger; 06-08-2010 at 08:39 AM.
    Rob
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    1975 Porsche 914 stroker motor autoX car
    1973 Datsun 240Z Restoration project. New paint in original white. E31 head on 2.4 block. Nissan Motorsports header. R200 with Nissan motorsports LSD.

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    Registered User rjracin240's Avatar
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    Default

    Thanks for the efforts would be interested in the grommets for the firewall and other parts. Gotta get home to take an inventory
    Russ Jones

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    240Z Elec. Upgrade guy Zs-ondabrain's Avatar
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    The Engine harness firewall grommet from MSA is $45 friggen bucks for a peice of rubber.
    The wiper motor firewall grommet from MSA is $25 for an ounce worth of rubber.

    The radiator support wall rubber (where the harness goes thru) seems to be impossible to find. (This is the small circle of rubber that attaches to the harness feed thru hole, that keeps the harness from rubbing on the metal)

    The under fender rubber strip (mounts to the body and keeps water from the wheel well from getting into the top area under the fender) Seem to be hard to find, last time I looked.

    That's off the top of my head
    Dave
    Last edited by Zs-ondabrain; 06-08-2010 at 09:29 AM.
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    I've bought some replacement weatherstripping parts for my roadster that are made of neoprene instead of rubber. It seems to remain more pliable and has better longevity. Just something to consider. As far as which pieces are needed, I would think hatch seals are a pretty common problem.

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    Registered User Curtis240Z's Avatar
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    The rubber clutch stop pad located on the firewall bracket is NLA.

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    Registered User JohnnyO's Avatar
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    I agree that grommet costs seem out of hand. I'd be interested in a few items.

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    Registered User conedodger's Avatar
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    Well, we certainly seem to have interest. Now all we need is for someone who has some NOS weatherstripping or grommets to allow some reverse engineering. We can work from old parts but it is a compromise.
    Rob
    2000 BMW R1100 RT-SE (for sale)
    1999 Toyota 4Runner Supercharged
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    1973 Datsun 240Z Restoration project. New paint in original white. E31 head on 2.4 block. Nissan Motorsports header. R200 with Nissan motorsports LSD.

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    Quote Originally Posted by conedodger View Post
    Well, we certainly seem to have interest. Now all we need is for someone who has some NOS weatherstripping or grommets to allow some reverse engineering. We can work from old parts but it is a compromise.
    I have a small piece of NOS door weatherstripping that I trimmed off when installing. It is NOS Nissan, and just the rubber, as the weatherstrip I installed was the early two piece with separate welting which holds the rubber weatherstrips to the pinch welds on the door frame. I may even have a piece of the welting that was trimmed off, also, but will need to check. The welting appears to be a plastic with embedded metal mesh and is, also, NOS early part.

    Let me know if this would help.

    Dan

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    Registered User conedodger's Avatar
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    I'm going to start with something simple. In the rear hatch on Series 1 cars there are two rubber plugs at the bottom on the inside of the hatch. I think I paid $12 for these. On the sides of the body are the two flat bumpers that guide the hatch. I think these were about the same. I will give mine to Mark for reverse engineering and I would bet we are talking a couple bucks each. Let's see...
    Rob
    2000 BMW R1100 RT-SE (for sale)
    1999 Toyota 4Runner Supercharged
    1975 Porsche 914 stroker motor autoX car
    1973 Datsun 240Z Restoration project. New paint in original white. E31 head on 2.4 block. Nissan Motorsports header. R200 with Nissan motorsports LSD.

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    Semi-retired admin Arne's Avatar
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    Tail light seals? (Available but stupid expensive.) And what about the headlight bucket seals?
    Arne - Former owner, HLS30-37705, 7/71, 905 Red
    Car blogs - 240Z - Porsche 911

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    Mike B
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    Registered User conedodger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike B View Post
    I had not seen that thread. I certainly don't want to step on any toes. We don't intend to try to make money at it. I am just trying to fix my car up. Perhaps if he gets back on track with this, we can coordinate.

    I need taillight seals too. Anyone have a NOS set to use for reverse engineering?
    Rob
    2000 BMW R1100 RT-SE (for sale)
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    1975 Porsche 914 stroker motor autoX car
    1973 Datsun 240Z Restoration project. New paint in original white. E31 head on 2.4 block. Nissan Motorsports header. R200 with Nissan motorsports LSD.

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    It is good to start with something simple. I think everyone who tries something grand just gets burned. The rear hatch is a good one, how about the rubber behind the door locks or some of the parts that were sold with the rubber (and not sepeate from the part like the rubber on the door handles) that are NLA? Another idea is to look at parts that wear out that are NLA like maybe the molded vacuum lines to the brake booster.

    If he will do more than rubber, what about remaking the battery cables, or some of the switches that are NLA, even the resistor for the heater fan for example. These are simple parts that just don't exist any more

    I wish you luck and let us know which parts you are looking for, I might even have that part.

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    Mike B
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    Quote Originally Posted by conedodger View Post
    I had not seen that thread. I certainly don't want to step on any toes. We don't intend to try to make money at it. I am just trying to fix my car up. Perhaps if he gets back on track with this, we can coordinate.

    I need taillight seals too. Anyone have a NOS set to use for reverse engineering?
    I don't think you'd be stepping on any toes. No one has the market cornered on making reproduction parts, and as far as I am concerned, the more the better. My suggestion would be to just pick one part, start it, complete it, and then move on to another part if you still have a desire. Try to start too many projects at once, and you may wind up not getting any of them done. I have previously let people borrow parts to make molds from and not heard anything back in over a year, so things like that have made me skeptical. I may have a NOS set of taillight seals put away (I can't remember if I put the only set on my blue car or not), but reproduction seals are also available from aftermarket suppliers currently.

    Also, another member posted this link http://www.vintagerubber.com/240z.aspx to another source for reproduction rubber parts recently, in case you didn't see that. Good luck!

    -Mike
    Last edited by Mike B; 06-08-2010 at 05:48 PM.

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    Registered User conedodger's Avatar
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    We can do complex. Mark has a standard to which he adheres. If he can't make it just as good or better, he will not do it. Here is a seal that was unavailable (sort of) Porsche showed 11 of them in the system but it must have been a glitch. They listed at $450 and had a metal clip that rusted causing some swelling in the area where the clip was located. Mark made it with an aluminum clip and sells it for $199 which is just a few bucks more than they cost to make.
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    Rob
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    1973 Datsun 240Z Restoration project. New paint in original white. E31 head on 2.4 block. Nissan Motorsports header. R200 with Nissan motorsports LSD.

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    Registered User JohnnyO's Avatar
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    Rob,

    Post 15 made me think of the airbox seals. Those are NLA for sure.

    John

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    How about the differential strap, that is a safety thing that is NLA

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    Registered User Powderkeg's Avatar
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    Rob,

    Any chance of making a fuel filler tube for a 74-76 280Z?

    Dave Ruiz

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    Registered User conedodger's Avatar
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    Overwhelmed! Mark and I plan to start with something simple and go from there. Thanks for the suggestions. Again, what we need is for someone who has NOS parts to let us borrow them for a period to do measurements and technical drawings. You get them back unharmed. Let me know what you have and we can make some arrangements. That diff strap sounds like a good part to work on. I am going to remove mine, but I worry that by using a used part for measurement, I risk that it has stretched or shrunk etc...
    Rob
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    1973 Datsun 240Z Restoration project. New paint in original white. E31 head on 2.4 block. Nissan Motorsports header. R200 with Nissan motorsports LSD.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ajmcforester View Post
    How about the differential strap, that is a safety thing that is NLA
    MSA started to carry those again as a factory reproduction in the last catalog I think..



    Yup, its like 54 bucks
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    How about the rubber bumpers for the hood? Are they still availabe from Nissan?
    Bryan Pilati
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    Registered User Marty Rogan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by conedodger View Post
    Overwhelmed! Mark and I plan to start with something simple and go from there. Thanks for the suggestions. Again, what we need is for someone who has NOS parts to let us borrow them for a period to do measurements and technical drawings. You get them back unharmed. Let me know what you have and we can make some arrangements. That diff strap sounds like a good part to work on. I am going to remove mine, but I worry that by using a used part for measurement, I risk that it has stretched or shrunk etc...
    I think I have a diff strap that was only used for about 5,000 miles. You can use that if you want.

    Let me know and I can mail it to you.

    Marty

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    Any plans for the rubber pads on the early Z front & rear bumpers and bumperettes? They have gotten expensive just like the 914 bumper cones.
    Dennis
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    I can use the filler pieces on the ends on the front bummper on my 73 240Z. I have been working on the car and need new ones. The old ones are damaged and falling apart.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny'O View Post
    Rob,

    Post 15 made me think of the airbox seals. Those are NLA for sure.

    John
    Sure would like to find good air box seal material for my heater's flaps...i won't or can't put it back in until i find the right stuff to replace it with, so far no luck

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    Registered User tlorber's Avatar
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    Door window squeegees would be good as well. Simple die, I would imagine. Right now you have to purchase the entire stainless steel moulding just to replace the rubber. At $200.00 for the pair, I'd happily pay $30.00 for the rubber and figure out how to attach them on my own.

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    By the way Rob, I have a client in Van Nuys that is does Porsche service and builds cars for racing. If you get me your guy's contact and an inventory of the parts, my guy will probably buy from him.

    They have a lot of 911's over there that are the same age as our Z's and are just as badly in need of new rubber.

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    Still plays with cars kenz240z's Avatar
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    How about the rubber "blocks" that are used to mount the fuel & brake lines along the firewall and also through the tranny tunnel? And also the rubber "blocks" that are on the clutch hard line and a few of the brake hard lines that have a metal clamp that mounts the line to the frame rail?
    Kenny P.

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    Quote Originally Posted by davescatch View Post
    Sure would like to find good air box seal material for my heater's flaps...i won't or can't put it back in until i find the right stuff to replace it with, so far no luck
    I used McMaster part number 86225K51 on my flap doors. It's very similar to the original stuff.
    Steve Golik
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    Registered User conedodger's Avatar
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    I have started with two very small insignificant - even available parts just to show what we can do. I will have a price estimate for these next week. The 15th or so...

    The round plugs that goes in the bottom of the rear hatch.

    The metal/rubber guide at each side of the body in the hatch area.

    Keep the suggestions coming. The idea is that we make something that looks factory enough to fool concour judges but in some cases is better. So what you got from Mcmaster Carr is nice but it is a compromise...
    Rob
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    Registered User Steve Parmley's Avatar
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    We even have the endorsement of the biggest concours weenie we know in the Porsche world.
    This made my morning and congratulations, that couldn't be easy.

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    I would like to see some replacement boots for the hatch hinges. These are probably a bit more complex, but I've seen lots of interest over the years.
    The LaZarus Project
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    Registered User conedodger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Parmley View Post
    This made my morning and congratulations, that couldn't be easy.
    Steve the dude is completely insufferable. He has a crack in the plastic next to a bolt holding the raintray on under his engine lid. He has been searching the classifieds on three different Porsche websites and the PCA publication for a new or like new one for 10 years. He has even offered $1000 for it. It apparently was the only problem his car had until he discovered that the longitudinals on the sides were rusting out from the inside. He then promtly had chest pain and was admitted to the hospital for an angioplasty. The doc told him "you need to lighten up!" No??? Really???
    Rob
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    I have 1 and 1/2 taillight seals. As you might guess, they are not NOS, in fact they are pretty hacked out but are still attached to a pair of taillights, which may be of some help in dimensioning. I'm still planning on the reunion in Sacramento next weekend, so I'll just bring'em along and let you decide if they are usable or not.

    Chris

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    Registered User conedodger's Avatar
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    Chris,
    They probably aren't usable. The better the beggining the better the end. I have my own I could take off... They are probably in better shape than most.
    Rob
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    Quote Originally Posted by conedodger View Post
    Chris,
    They probably aren't usable. The better the beggining the better the end. I have my own I could take off... They are probably in better shape than most.
    I'll bring 'em anyway. They are attached to a spare pair of taillights, not the ones on the car.

    Chris

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    Registered User conedodger's Avatar
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    Just an FYI, I just got off the phone with Les at Classic Datsun Motorsports. Les has a company he is working with to make rubber products for the Z. In that regard, I want to say that we are not a manufacturing company. We are just a couple guys wanting to restore our cars. So given that fact, we are not interested in competing with Les' source. Les will probably come on and comment on this development but let me just say that Mark and I will only be making rubber product that Les' source is not interested in making.

    This is good news in that Precision will be a year out from making anything for us and their quality was in some regards not the best.
    Rob
    2000 BMW R1100 RT-SE (for sale)
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    1975 Porsche 914 stroker motor autoX car
    1973 Datsun 240Z Restoration project. New paint in original white. E31 head on 2.4 block. Nissan Motorsports header. R200 with Nissan motorsports LSD.

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    Rob,

    Don't know if this part has been discussed, but there is a rubber, or plastic grommet that fits in a hole in the radiator support. The engine wiring harness passes through this hole and is protected by this grommet. May be difficult finding an original to copy, but would be important to an original restoration project.

    Dan

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