Progress on rust repairs

[240dkw]

Well it seems to be a few threads showing updates to members projects and as I did not want to be left out here are a few photos of my car.
The first one is a before and after of the TC rail area.
Before I sealed it up I ran a borescope up the rails and found the rail gone behind the support plate over the front cross member. Again a before and after, from the outside you could not tell there was a problem it just looked like a bit of surface rust around the plate (glad I did the borescope). Next is the rocker panel under the front fender, I used the Tabco part for this repair. The last three are the progress on the drivers rear 1/4. I picked up a set of rear 1/4's this past winter in AZ while on vacation. I started on the front drivers side and am working my way around the car. All of the repairs have been POR 15 treated on the inside as I have gone. At the rate I am going I hope to be done by next spring.

[steve91tt]

Wow, looks like great progress. Looking forward to seeing more of your posts!

[Mikes Z car]

Do you have any borseight camera pictures? Where did you get the boresight camera? I made one for my frame rails and other areas but haven't used it yet.
Mike

[JohnnyO]

Dan,

Looks like a lot of work but you seem to have a handle on it. Post more pics as you go.

BTW, Last week I installed the door panels you picked up for me. They look great. I cannot thank you enough.

Good luck and take care,

John

[240dkw]

Do you have any borseight camera pictures? Where did you get the boresight camera? I made one for my frame rails and other areas but haven't used it yet.
Mike

Mike: I used a borescope camera call "Snake eye" that I borrowed from work.
http://www.snakeeye.com/
I do not have any photos as I did not hook up the recorder to the borescope. I still the other rail to do so maybe I will try doing a video recording than.
Dan

[240dkw]

Dan,

Looks like a lot of work but you seem to have a handle on it. Post more pics as you go.

BTW, Last week I installed the door panels you picked up for me. They look great. I cannot thank you enough.

Good luck and take care,

John

John: It has been a steep but enjoyable learning curve. I am glad the panels look great.
Dan

[oldhemi]

I am curious as to what you did between the pics of removing the crossmember stiffener and welding it back on. Could you explain what you did as i have a similar problem that can be seen in the link in my signature. Thanks!

[240dkw]

I am curious as to what you did between the pics of removing the crossmember stiffener and welding it back on. Could you explain what you did as i have a similar problem that can be seen in the link in my signature. Thanks!

oldhemi: I had photos, but missplaced the memory card
I started out by putting a 90 bend in a patch panel at a depth that is the same as the deepest part of the stiffener. I than clamped the patch to the back of the stiffener and used it to hammer the panel it to the shape. I ended up with a folded crease at each end that I filled in with a weld to stiffen it up. I hope this makes sense.
Dan

[240dkw]

Time for an update. I have worked my way around the car to the right rear quarter, here is a photo of the old one removed. The only bad spot underneath was the dogleg area. After cutting out the bad, I treated everything with the silver POR15. next up is to weld on a non rusted rear rocker section and then the new rear quarter.

[240dkw]

While I have replacing my rear quarters with a set from a 73, I found a couple of things that are different. In the first photos the is a "eyebrow" on the top outer corner of the main body that fills in a open area on the quarter panel. This does not exist on the series 1 quarter. The next set show the door latch area. The series 1 has a very small spot welded bracket to hold on the latch plate backing, and the later one has quite a large reinforced bracket for the latch.

[geezer]

You are progressing very well Dan! I enjoy looking at pics of Zs turned inside out and comparing them to what I've found on mine. Looking great so far, keep up the good work.

[rturbo 930]

Wow, I no longer feel too bad about the rust that needs to be fixed on my '71. Do you have any more pictures of the repairs you did on the reinforced section of the frame rail above the TC rod mount? Preferably during the repair if you have them.

Also, I'm wondering if you have rust in the seam that connects the inner and outer rear wheel wells. The seam that the strut tower butts up against.

[240dkw]

Wow, I no longer feel too bad about the rust that needs to be fixed on my '71. Do you have any more pictures of the repairs you did on the reinforced section of the frame rail above the TC rod mount? Preferably during the repair if you have them.

Also, I'm wondering if you have rust in the seam that connects the inner and outer rear wheel wells. The seam that the strut tower butts up against.

Owen: sorry, I misplaced the card they were on, I have the same work to do on the passenger side and will make sure to take photos then. No there is no rust in that seam other than right at the bottom of the dog leg. In my first post you can see the white seam filler. I scraped it all out and there was no rust.
Dan

[240dkw]

Well, it was a long cold winter here, I only have a elec heater in the garage and it was over 4 months of way too cold to work on the car. I need to finish it this winter or upgrade the heater. I finally got the right rear quarter on and moved on to the right front. It was a nice surprise that the front rocker area was in good shape. Of course as the photos show the brace above the torsion box and behind the front steering brace were as bad as the drivers side. I removed the battery support and it is not to bad. I am almost all the way around the car for the first time.

[JohnnyO]

I was wondering how it was coming along Dan. Those door panels are going to be antiques pretty soon.

John

[240dkw]

I was wondering how it was coming along Dan. Those door panels are going to be antiques pretty soon.

John

I know, if I don't pick up the pace I will be able to call them NOS by the time I put them on.

[240dkw]

More updates.

[240dkw]

And more

[240dkw]

Some of the floor rails, the first one shows the pile of stuff that was inside the rail.

[240dkw]

And the floors

[Mikes Z car]

Great work and thanks for sharing the pictures!
Mike

[jepherz]

An inspiration to us all! Thanks for sharing, Mike!

[madkaw]

That's an incredible amount of work to do-you truly are determined. I am kind of suprised you are getting away with such little work on the floors since everything else seemed so rusted. keep up the good work.

[240dkw]

Well, the cutting and patching has finally come to an end. I am now able to move on to the body work. I was able to weld the battery tray back in after replacing a large section of metal under it as well as a section of the firewall. Here are a few update photos.

[Oiluj]

That's quite a task. Good work!

[Blue]

Looks great Dan!

[Z Greek]

Wow, very nice work. I was just admiring your battery box. I was working on my battery tray area not an hour ago. I am very lucky, my car is very solid over all, but the battery tray area is really a mess. Previous owner had laid fiberglass cloth over the whole area, and then riveted the battery tray back in.


I have a parts car that looks like it may be pretty solid in the battery tray area, I think I might cut pieces from it.

[Zealous]

Wow this is simply amazing I wish I had your skills. Looking forward to seeing the final product. How did you treat the metal after you welded in new sections.

[esmit208]

Goin' hard at it! I LOVE IT! My 72 is just waiting for me to get a WELDER. Just keep dreaming of the day it's all finished.

[esmit208]

This is what my battery tray area looks like now. Left and righ rocker as well before sand blasting.

[240dkw]

Zealous: I am treating everything with POR15 that I can get at after welding, I used a weldable primer on all of the peices that I can not get at after and will spray some type of coating inside the rails once I am done.
Z Greek & esmit 208: Somewhere on this site I read that using a section on a old fender to replace the metal under the battery tray works well, This is what I did and the curve of the fender matches quite well.

[Z Greek]

Zealous: I am treating everything with POR15 that I can get at after welding, I used a weldable primer on all of the peices that I can not get at after and will spray some type of coating inside the rails once I am done.
Z Greek & esmit 208: Somewhere on this site I read that using a section on a old fender to replace the metal under the battery tray works well, This is what I did and the curve of the fender matches quite well.

Thank you very much for the advice! I have searched a number of times, but did not see the post referring to using an old fender. I am surprised there are no commercially produced patch panels available for that area, since it seems at least half of all Z's suffer there. Opportunity for someone in the sheet metal business?

[Zealous]

Thanks. Are you painting with POR15 and then using an etching primer for sanding and levelling?

[240dkw]

Thanks. Are you painting with POR15 and then using an etching primer for sanding and levelling?

JC: I miss read your post, I am only using the POR15 on the insides of everything. On the finished side it is the normal cleaning and leveling coat of bodyfiller with fiberglass strands followed by etching primer and final coat of filler if needed.
Dan

[MotoManMike]

Are you keeping track of your hours? I'd be very interested in how much time it takes you to complete. Very nice metal work too.

[240dkw]

Sorry, no I am not tracking hours. I get side tracked a way to easy to ever mark down the time spent on the car. I will be welding and stop for a break, pick up a part and start cleaning it up for later and not get back to welding for a couple of hours. Very ADD of me but it keeps me enjoying the project.

[240dkw]

So, I finished the work on the hatch/tail light area and decided to clean all of the old undercoating off the bottom of the car. After getting tired of laying on my back and the stuff falling in my face, I put the car on the rotisserie and flipped it over. The job went better after that.

[240dkw]

I have decided to go with a etching primer and paintable spray on undercoating. It seems to have about the right texture. Here is how it looks on car. I will paint it with the same color as the car before I flip it back on its feet

[Blue]

Looks great Dan! But can it fit in your luggage?

[grannyknot]

Dan, just found this thread and read the whole thing, beautiful work! I'm just about to start this process on my 240z so it's great to see where the rust has settled in your car compared to mine. Your floors are almost pristine compared to mine. But then I have less rust above the floors. I'm planning on starting my own strip/clean/repair and resto thread when I really get going on mine, hope you will have a look at it and comment.
Did you use the Eastwood spot weld drill or just drill through both layers?
Chris

[240dkw]

Blue: Are you saying that if I bring it out you will finish it for me?

Chris: Thanks, I used a spot weld drill (OK I went through four or five before I was done).

[bpilati]

Time for an update. I have worked my way around the car to the right rear quarter, here is a photo of the old one removed. The only bad spot underneath was the dogleg area. After cutting out the bad, I treated everything with the silver POR15. next up is to weld on a non rusted rear rocker section and then the new rear quarter.

These are awesome photos, first I've seen these types of pictures. I find the middle two photos especially enlightening.

[240dkw]

Time for an update. So I thought I was done with the rust until I pulled the fenders out of the pile in the corner. Lower panel behind the front tire not so good. Cut it out and welded a new one one. Photo one is the bad cut of, two is the new panel tacked on, three is the panel all welded up and four the finished job. As well here is a pic of the car so far.

[Blue]

Nice!

[Hardway]

That is some great progress Dan! You are truly neck deep in that car. I have been tackling some of the rust repair on my '72 as well and yours gives me more motivation to carry on. Can you tell us what kind of welder you are using and what you have it set at? When I have welded some butt joints together I am still blowing holes through it. I have Hobart Handler 150, set on 1 for power, 5-6 for wire speed, using .024 Hobart wire, and my gas set at around 25-30. In some of my repair work as can be seen in your pics there is no way to put a backing plate on the spot you are welding. If you do blow a hole through the metal how do you go about repairing it without making the hole bigger? Any info will be greatly appreciated by all!

[240dkw]

That is some great progress Dan! You are truly neck deep in that car. I have been tackling some of the rust repair on my '72 as well and yours gives me more motivation to carry on. Can you tell us what kind of welder you are using and what you have it set at? When I have welded some butt joints together I am still blowing holes through it. I have Hobart Handler 150, set on 1 for power, 5-6 for wire speed, using .024 Hobart wire, and my gas set at around 25-30. In some of my repair work as can be seen in your pics there is no way to put a backing plate on the spot you are welding. If you do blow a hole through the metal how do you go about repairing it without making the hole bigger? Any info will be greatly appreciated by all!

I use a Millermatic 140 with the automatic setting. The wire is .024 E-Z grind. Is 25-30 CFH or PSI, my gas setting is about 5 PSI as I do not have a flow meter, but even 25 CFH seems high. As far a welding , patience, patience, patience. Do not try to lay down a bead, just a whole bunch of tacks. I use five or six tacks and then move to the other end of the panel and do the same while the first one cools. I jump back and forth and keep checking the whole panel for temp and if it starts to feel too warm take a break and let it cool. Same goes for if you blow through, STOP and let it cool right down before trying to fill in the hole with more little tacks.
This link might help, http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/thin-metal.htm

[e-tek]

Any updates since Xmas Dan?

Y'know, I was thinking as I re-read your thread, you and I are on such a similar "Z-life-path" - lol! If we get finished anywhere near the same time, we should drive our Zeds to a meet on the AB-SK boarder.

[240dkw]

Well, had a small setback, while trying to fit the front fenders, I did not like how everything was lining up. I did a poor job of welding the rockers where they met the back of the front fenders. So out came the cut-off wheel and the welder. After a while everything lines up a lot nicer. Next I went over all of the seams under the car with a sealer and then did another coat of undercoating. Not sure if I am going to leave it like this or give it a coat of paint.

[LeonV]

Looks like a thorough job, very nice!

[grannyknot]

Your in the home stretch, will you have it on the road this summer?
Chris

[240dkw]

When I was sanding the engine bay what I thought was rock chips that had rusted turned out to be a lot of rust hiding under a repaint. So had to strip it all and treat the surface rust. The first two are what the rust looked like, the next two are after all of the stripping and then after the first coat of etching primer. Some day this will all come to a end.

[240dkw]

Finished the back end, looks like it will be going to the painters in a couple of weeks. Had to see what putting something back on the car felt like. I am going to spend the next while putting the suspension back on and letting the old girl stand on her own feet.

[Blue]

Nice to be so close to paint.

Looking forward to more photos.

Good Luck Dan!

[240dkw]

Quite enjoying putting stuff back on the car.

[Blue]

Looks mighty purdy! You are now on the other side of the curve... enjoy it, assembly goes by quickly.

ps Don't forget the wee lil' spring that pulls the brake cable back. I never noticed it until looking at pics when reassembling.

[240dkw]

Thanks, Blue. I would have missed that. Now to find that wee lil' spring.

[Blue]

Glad to help.

You may wish to consider using a foam seal or sealant where the parking brake assembly's plate ( the lever part, not the cable junction) bolts to the tunnel. I did it to keep fumes and hot air out of the cab.

[e-tek]

We sure are close on our builds! Ironic too since your turn-around triggered mine - in a matter of speaking.

You are definitely doing it right - like treating that rust instead of just painting over it.

And is that a skid plate on the front? I've never seen one of those.

[240dkw]

Yes we might be able to met at the border this summer. It is a skid pan, I pulled it off a car at a auto wreckers in of all places Prince Albert, picked up a new working complete antenna from the same car.

[240dkw]

More stuff back on, the flash sure shows the dust on everything. And all most ready to drop it down on its feet.

[240dkw]

And the old girl is standing on her own for the fist time in almost three years. Body shop picking it up next week and will get it back in about a month.

[Blue]

Nice! Perfect timing for a good summer.

[240dkw]

Well, very excited the car got picked up today. Now to clean out the garage, organize all the parts I have tucked away and wait for it to come back home.

[Blue]

Smooth looking,

Spend some time on the front lower cowl center piece to make it parallel with the ground. It is worth it. On the 71 I restored it was the most challenging part. The grill really shows any ripples.

[bpilati]

They should have built Z's out of stainless steel. Didn't they realize they were building the greatest car on the planet?

[bpilati]

Well, very excited the car got picked up today. Now to clean out the garage, organize all the parts I have tucked away and wait for it to come back home.

Any rust issues with the air intake for your heating system (under the cowl)?

[cbuczesk]

They should have built Z's out of stainless steel. Didn't they realize they were building the greatest car on the planet?

That's why the Delorean is SS! lol

Chuck

[240dkw]

Any rust issues with the air intake for your heating system (under the cowl)?

Bryan: No everything under the cowl was dry and just light surface rust.

[240dkw]

Couple of update photos from the bodyshop. Getting closer.

[zKars]

The shear beauty of these things stripped bare still takes my breath away. Alone, vunerable, calling for attention....

Hang on, I might need to take a moment here... Excuse me....

....

ok.... I'm fine. Carry on...

[EuroDat]

Dan. This thread is a great read and a tribute to the awesome work you are doing. The contrast between what it was in post #1 and now with the primer in post #69 is just awesome.
Cheers chas

[e-tek]

That is AWESOME to see how much good, unfilled, metal you have on you car! You should blow that photo up to poster size and frame it for your garage.

The race to finish is still on Dan - but you having it at a shop is giving you an edge - although NOW I'm REALLY motivated!!! Think we're still on-target to meet up (with our Zeds) in Lloyd next summer??!

[240dkw]

That is AWESOME to see how much good, unfilled, metal you have on you car! You should blow that photo up to poster size and frame it for your garage.

The race to finish is still on Dan - but you having it at a shop is giving you an edge - although NOW I'm REALLY motivated!!! Think we're still on-target to meet up (with our Zeds) in Lloyd next summer??!

Oh yah we are still on, but I might not be still living in Alberta by then, just a longer drive for me.

[e-tek]

Oh yah we are still on, but I might not be still living in Alberta by then, just a longer drive for me.

Of course we could just trade photo's here too - and if you're moving to PEI I definitely won't hold you to it!! !!

[240dkw]

Car is going to final paint next week, working on the motor. Some parts ready to go back on.

[grannyknot]

Dan is the valve cover painted or is that bead blasted? Either way is it beautiful.

[240dkw]

Both, it was glass bead blasted then etching primer and painted with high temp alum paint.

[240dkw]

Motor is mostly done, a bunch of nuts and bolts to finish plating. Not quite to Diseazd's standards but I am happy with it.

[cbuczesk]

It's looking really nice!

Chuck

[Blue]

Looks fab!

[Virto]

Looks amazing - I'm jealous of your ability.

Are you planning to keep running the old metal fan?

[240dkw]

Looks amazing - I'm jealous of your ability.

Are you planning to keep running the old metal fan?

Not sure, I do have a plastic one as well. As with everything else there seems to be conflicting opinions as to is better.

[240dkw]

While on a road trip, stopped by the autobody shop to check on the car progress. Coming along nicely. He told me it would take about a month when I gave him the car in the middle of May. Everyone warned me he would take much longer than what he estimated, but the work would be very good. Looks like them were correct on both counts.

[Blue]

Looks ready now!

[ninjazombiemaster]

That looks fantastic!

Not sure, I do have a plastic one as well. As with everything else there seems to be conflicting opinions as to is better.

I don't think I've heard anyone say the metal one it "better".
However, an original restoration with an attention for detail would call for a metal one. I guess it depends on your goal with the car.

[240dkw]

I guess better is the wrong word, what I meant is that there some people that think the metal one is just as good as the plastic one. That there is not a lot to be gained by using the plastic over the metal. The car is going to be as stock as possible.

[ninjazombiemaster]

I guess better is the wrong word, what I meant is that there some people that think the metal one is just as good as the plastic one. That there is not a lot to be gained by using the plastic over the metal. The car is going to be as stock as possible.

Oh, I see. I'm sure the plastic has minimal advantages in that it is lighter weight. But looking at the photos of your engine - the metal one looks just right. I'm really excited to see this all come together.

[240dkw]

A few more photos from the body shop.

[240dkw]

Have been trying to decide what to do to the gas tanks for a while. It is quite rusty inside and very beat up on the bottom. As this car has none of the emissions stuff the tank has a few less connections on it and I want to reuse it. So, I decided to cut it open, clean it up, fix the dents and weld it back together. Then I will coat the inside and paint the outside. Here a photos of it opened up and after sandblasting.

[Blue]

love the tank work.

Please take shots of every part of that chassis inside and out if you can. It looks great!

[Captain Obvious]

Way cool. Never seen anyone cut into a gas tank before. Thanks for the view!!

[EuroDat]

Thats great before and after shots on the tank. Never seen a Z tank on the inside. Keep em coming.
I had to cut a tank open on a Holden Monaro years ago because the baffle crack off and broke the fuel pick-up. It took some toubleshooting to fique that one out. It had what they called a Bathurst tank and I couldn't find another one.

Keep the photos coming. Eccellent thread
Chas

[Blue]

It would be interesting to fit the float and take some measurements.

It would also be nice to know how high the pick-up is above the tank bottom.

[Dr. 240Z]

Re: Metal Fan

This is a great thread and your work is outstanding. That said, I feel obliged to comment on your metal fan.

I got lucky earlier this summer when my metal fan started to fail. It made a couple of raspy noises under acceleration which took a little exploring to source. My first thought was to keep it original and replace it with another original (new/refurbished) fan clutch, but all I could source was a used one. Of note, on another thread, Carl Beck, noted that he had seen six metal fan failures and the horrid damage that resulted.

So, the bottom line is unless you are totally comfortable with the old metal fan, as is, then replacing it with the newer plastic type might be good preventative medicine. Plastic doesn't look nearly as retro, but after a couple of months you move on.

Plastic fans and their fan clutch are readily available both new (MSA, etc) and used (ebay).

Cheers,

George

[240dkw]

It would be interesting to fit the float and take some measurements.

It would also be nice to know how high the pick-up is above the tank bottom.

Sorry, Blue it was tacked back together before I saw your post. Ran two very heavy beads, now to figure out how to test for pin holes or just use the tank coating to do the final seal.

[240dkw]

Re: Metal Fan

This is a great thread and your work is outstanding. That said, I feel obliged to comment on your metal fan.

I got lucky earlier this summer when my metal fan started to fail. It made a couple of raspy noises under acceleration which took a little exploring to source. My first thought was to keep it original and replace it with another original (new/refurbished) fan clutch, but all I could source was a used one. Of note, on another thread, Carl Beck, noted that he had seen six metal fan failures and the horrid damage that resulted.

So, the bottom line is unless you are totally comfortable with the old metal fan, as is, then replacing it with the newer plastic type might be good preventative medicine. Plastic doesn't look nearly as retro, but after a couple of months you move on.

Plastic fans and their fan clutch are readily available both new (MSA, etc) and used (ebay).

Cheers,

George

I wonder what failed on the ones Carl saw. Blade came off, clutch exploded? I have no doubt that a metal fan will do more damage than a plastic on when it starts free spinning inside the engine bay. I am just not understanding what failed? If a clutch jammed up would it be enough to make the waterpump break? Or the pressed fit hub come apart? I have another post showing what I think is what the early waterpumps looked like. I can see one of them failing and breaking apart and letting the fan go for a ride.

[Captain Obvious]

Seal off the holes and pressurize the tank to a couple PSI. Then dunk it in your neighbors swimming pool to check for bubbles. Easy peasy.

[e-tek]

MY MY - it's looking lovely!!! You've pulled ahead of me now! I'm just finalized mine for paint now. I'm waiting for Dupli-color to send me some Blue Metallic so I can add it to the Silver to make a custom Blue-Silver Metallic. I'll be painting the inners later this week and then will shoot the exterior shortly thereafter. Then it'll sit for a long while because I have another couple of project I want to get a move on....

At least I can watch yours go together....and DROOL!!

[Dr. 240Z]

I wonder what failed on the ones Carl saw. Blade came off, clutch exploded? I have no doubt that a metal fan will do more damage than a plastic on when it starts free spinning inside the engine bay. I am just not understanding what failed? If a clutch jammed up would it be enough to make the waterpump break? Or the pressed fit hub come apart? I have another post showing what I think is what the early waterpumps looked like. I can see one of them failing and breaking apart and letting the fan go for a ride.

The clutch fails and releases the metal fan into the rad and/or hood.

By way of suggestion, check for any play in your fan. Take a blade and attempt to move it perpendicular to the axis of rotation. If there is any detectable movement (wobble), be aware of a potential clutch failure.

Also, I should mention that if you observe any loss of fluid (oily)from within the clutch mechanism, it's a heads-up that a change is due. The original Series 1 clutch fan hubs were not designed to be refurbished; only replaced.

Hope this is of value to you.

Cheers,

George

[240dkw]

Seal off the holes and pressurize the tank to a couple PSI. Then dunk it in your neighbors swimming pool to check for bubbles. Easy peasy.

Good idea but no swimming pool near by. I sealed the holes and used the discharge end of a vacuum cleaner to pressure it up to 1.5 psi. then I used shoop to check for bubbles. First go around there was around a dozen pinholes and two quite large holes. Another round of welds and another bubble test. Only a couple of very small leaks. Second pass with the welder and all is good.