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Thread: which air cleaners?

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    Biafra for President e_racer1999's Avatar
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    Default which air cleaners?

    i'm debating on which air cleaners to get for my SUs... right now i'm torn between the K&N round assemblies (similar to the ones in the second link) and the ramflo/longflow style air cleaners that MSA and victoria british sell... i plan on using MSAs air horns on my carbs to optimize flow efficency as wel. i was pretty much set on the ramflo ones but then i read on hybridz that if the intake backfires it will melt the air filter element (that wouldn't be too yummy). i plan on purchasing these very soon so any input would be great!

    ps.... since the ramflos will save me a little $$, they are a little more attractive...

    RAMFLO:
    http://www.zcarparts.com/store/merch...ry_Code=PFFC08

    K&N:
    http://www.zcarparts.com/store/merch...ry_Code=PFFC10

    AIR HORNS:
    http://www.zcarparts.com/store/merch...ry_Code=PFFC07
    Last edited by e_racer1999; 08-09-2004 at 03:03 PM.
    Jason King
    6/72 240Z / HLS30 89646 (Yellow)
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    1971 510 4door (wife's car)
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    Quote Originally Posted by xray View Post
    As unfortunate as it may be, if you want to vintage race, go Euro....If you want to race for real, stick with the Z!

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    Her Majesty the 26th 26th-Z's Avatar
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    I think you will get better filter protection from the K&Ns. I like the K&Ns.
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    I not certain, but I think the K&N's are 3'' deep and work better with the air horns, allowing you to get the full benefit of the horns.
    Don't quote me, There are far greater experts out there than little ol me.
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    Default

    Why not just buy a K&N filter for the stock Air Cleaner Assembly? Then you don't have to figure out plumbing places for the Float Bowl vent hoses, and the the Flow Guide Valve.

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    Exclamation Itg

    Can't go wrong with the setup from ITG...MA sells them, large air volume good flow. Little $$$ but worth it. I've seen only 2.5-3 HP lost on RW DYNO

    David Spillman

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    Biafra for President e_racer1999's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bambikiller240
    Why not just buy a K&N filter for the stock Air Cleaner Assembly? Then you don't have to figure out plumbing places for the Float Bowl vent hoses, and the the Flow Guide Valve.
    because the stock air cleaner doesn't flow well enough for me, and i don't want to cut holes in it since i don't plan on butchering it. also, the winter/summer flap keeps closing on me when i'm driving and it gets me al hot and bothered....
    Quote Originally Posted by dspillman
    Can't go wrong with the setup from ITG...MA sells them, large air volume good flow. Little $$$ but worth it. I've seen only 2.5-3 HP lost on RW DYNO

    David Spillman
    the ITG looks ok, but i'm afraid that it might have the same effect if my intake backfires. also, i don't believe that it filters as well....
    Jason King
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    Quote Originally Posted by xray View Post
    As unfortunate as it may be, if you want to vintage race, go Euro....If you want to race for real, stick with the Z!

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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by e_racer1999
    because the stock air cleaner doesn't flow well enough for me, and i don't want to cut holes in it since i don't plan on butchering it. also, the winter/summer flap keeps closing on me when i'm driving and it gets me al hot and bothered....

    the ITG looks ok, but i'm afraid that it might have the same effect if my intake backfires. also, i don't believe that it filters as well....

    Anything you put on the car to replace the stock air cleaner will flow WORSE without Air Horns. Don't believe me? Talk to ZTherapy!

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    Default Back fire.....

    Jason,
    I've seen the foam burn, but only under odd ball circumstances..
    Fellow racer lost his altenator, and battery lost power, causing misfiring engine, did catch on fire and burn big spot in the hood.
    Proper running car shouldn't have that kinda flame.
    The element is 2 stage on ITG, with proper oiling , I've had no filtration or lack of filtering problems....

    david

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bambikiller240
    Anything you put on the car to replace the stock air cleaner will flow WORSE without Air Horns. Don't believe me? Talk to ZTherapy!
    Yea I second that,
    Without stock horns, you will gain a couple HP up top, but torque curve drops way off.
    Those MA horns look awesome...I may have to give em a try.

    david

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    WESTCOASTZRACER Chino 240Z's Avatar
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    Default

    I had some cheap air tubes on and after I replaced them with those full radius (MSA ones), I did see some smoother running difference and power gains too (but not more than a couple HP). The K&Ns are probably more durable but they are a tight fit to get on between the air horns and in inner fender wall, but you can do it. I have mine off & on often and hate fighting with them. I usually make Mrs. Chino do it, she has more patience with them than I do. Regarding the fuel bowl vent, you could put a nipple fitting on the K&N backing plate, or route it to a small inline filter or into a seperate overflow canister. But don't cap it or restrict its free air flow.
    Good luck.

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    Biafra for President e_racer1999's Avatar
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    i'm probably going to get the k&ns with the air horns. thanks for the input guys!
    Jason King
    6/72 240Z / HLS30 89646 (Yellow)
    1996 Infiniti I30 *I finally have all Nissans again!*
    1971 510 4door (wife's car)
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    Quote Originally Posted by xray View Post
    As unfortunate as it may be, if you want to vintage race, go Euro....If you want to race for real, stick with the Z!

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    '71 240Z, '78 280Z jmark's Avatar
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    Jason,

    How do you like the K & N's? How hard are they to install? Here is my current setup. Works OK just doesn't look good.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by jmark; 05-24-2005 at 05:58 AM.
    Mark
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    Quote Originally Posted by e_racer1999
    because the stock air cleaner doesn't flow well enough for me, and i don't want to cut holes in it since i don't plan on butchering it. also, the winter/summer flap keeps closing on me when i'm driving and it gets me al hot and bothered....

    the ITG looks ok, but i'm afraid that it might have the same effect if my intake backfires. also, i don't believe that it filters as well....
    I just finished watching the Ztherapy video and installing new carbs. One thing I learned is the stock air box with the integrated air horns flows as good or better than the aftermarket horns. They tested different types of brands including the ones MSA sells and found the stock unit to be superior. Bambikiller240 is correct. Regardless what you do use some type of horn or you will loose power. I use the stock unite and make plenty of power and will not ever change my set up because I do not think I will gain anything but better looks.

    If your intake backfires you do not have the carbs set up right and you could eventually have an engine compartment fire, problem with the SU's. the type of filter and horns should not cause that problem the tune of the carbs is the problem. Call Ztherapy and ask them some questions about the flow and tune of the carbs and try watching their video, it is worth it.
    Did I hit that cone?
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    '71 240Z, '78 280Z jmark's Avatar
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    Anybody got a nice '71 stock air cleaner for sale?
    Mark
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmark

    How do you like the K & N's? How hard are they to install? Here is my current setup. Works OK just doesn't look good.
    I quite like the look of your setup actually . I was thinking of making a copy for mine out of an old stock air filter cover I have to go with the K&N I have just bought.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jmark
    Jason,

    How do you like the K & N's? How hard are they to install? Here is my current setup. Works OK just doesn't look good.
    Looks just fine! Only improvement would be a trip to the chrome plater. I also intended to do what you did but went with the round K&Ns and the TWR velocity stack (sold by MSA). As Craig mentioned, the filter element on the round K&Ns is a little difficult to install, but if you slightly squeeze it into an oval, it will slip right over the two long outer plate mounting studs and velocity stacks.....won't effect the filter element, as long as you are careful not to poke a hole in it.

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    Thumbs up

    K&N Filters for everything, air filter, oil filter and fuel filter. Scott even retro fitted a K&N for my vacuum cleaner and A/C unit in the house. Not really but that would be cool


    Vicky
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    Registered User 240ZX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zrush
    K&N Filters for everything, air filter, oil filter and fuel filter. Scott even retro fitted a K&N for my vacuum cleaner and A/C unit in the house. Not really but that would be cool


    Vicky
    Hi Vic, I once tried a K&N filter in my shorts, after a heavy dose of Mexican food, but blew the filter element right out......K&N filters are great but not impervious to really hot gas!!! If you know what I mean! Just kidding of course!

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    Can I ask a little side question - how often should one replace their air filter??

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    With K & N filters you don't replace them, you clean them, re-apply oil, and reuse.

    K & N makes a great filter for the stock air cleaner can. Why start butchering OEM stock parts when there is no need?

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    i like my set-up just fine. flows like a champ, and you wouldn't believe the power gains over a STOCK (i mean stock air filter, too) air cleaner ass'y...
    Jason King
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    Quote Originally Posted by xray View Post
    As unfortunate as it may be, if you want to vintage race, go Euro....If you want to race for real, stick with the Z!

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    is this seat of the pants HP or actual HP from a dyno readout ? I havent seen any real numbers yet from a dyno that shows a gain from the stock air cleaner box with a K & N filter.
    I'd rather die while I am living than live while I am dieing. CZC 1887 IZCC 12602 Member of NorthWest Z Car Club

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    Quote Originally Posted by beandip
    is this seat of the pants HP or actual HP from a dyno readout ? I havent seen any real numbers yet from a dyno that shows a gain from the stock air cleaner box with a K & N filter.
    I agree. Seat of the pants HP can often be infuenced by the wish of more HP. Real number do not lie and I do not think the difference can be felt between the stock and not stock set ups and if it does make more power at all then I bet it is no more than 2 HP which will not be felt with the a$$ dyno.
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    Biafra for President e_racer1999's Avatar
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    seat of the pants, however, it REALLY can be felt. it's not just psychological, even though it sounds sooooooo good......
    Jason King
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    Quote Originally Posted by xray View Post
    As unfortunate as it may be, if you want to vintage race, go Euro....If you want to race for real, stick with the Z!

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    '71 240Z, '78 280Z jmark's Avatar
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    Got your pics Jason. Would the '72 stock air filter housing be the same as my car would have orginally had? It was built in 2/71 and is an early Series II.
    Mark
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    to my knowledge yes. i believe only the series 1 did not have the flapper...

    quote from ztherapy: "Nissan came out with the original "non-flapper" in 1969. Late 1970, smog laws dictated a heat riser be added to preheat the incoming air for the winter. This is called the "Flapper" style air cleaner."
    Jason King
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    Quote Originally Posted by xray View Post
    As unfortunate as it may be, if you want to vintage race, go Euro....If you want to race for real, stick with the Z!

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    '71 240Z, '78 280Z jmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by e_racer1999
    because the stock air cleaner doesn't flow well enough for me, and i don't want to cut holes in it since i don't plan on butchering it. also, the winter/summer flap keeps closing on me when i'm driving and it gets me al hot and bothered....

    the ITG looks ok, but i'm afraid that it might have the same effect if my intake backfires. also, i don't believe that it filters as well....
    Jason, Is the flapper working correctly?
    Mark
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    VIN HLS3022975
    '78 280Z Wine Red Metallic 611
    VIN HLS30468702
    IZCC #13834 CZC #5664
    '07 Nismo 350Z Silver Alloy Serial #0007
    VIN JN1BZ34E47M552354


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    actually, what it was was some paint on the spring was inhibiting the stretch of the spring.... scraped off a wee bit o' paint and it feels much more solid!
    Jason King
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    1996 Infiniti I30 *I finally have all Nissans again!*
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    Quote Originally Posted by xray View Post
    As unfortunate as it may be, if you want to vintage race, go Euro....If you want to race for real, stick with the Z!

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    '71 240Z, '78 280Z jmark's Avatar
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    Jason,

    PM me what you want for it. I would like to buy a refurbished one from Z Therapy but $300! Does Z Therapy give any club discounts?
    Mark
    '71 240Z White 904
    VIN HLS3022975
    '78 280Z Wine Red Metallic 611
    VIN HLS30468702
    IZCC #13834 CZC #5664
    '07 Nismo 350Z Silver Alloy Serial #0007
    VIN JN1BZ34E47M552354


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    aptfast.com also sells air horns, stub stacks and K&N filters. The HS6 SU flange is identical to the 240Z SU carbs. Here are the ram pipes (air horns) they sell ($31.75 each):



    They also sell K&N Filters on a different page. May want to compare prices. Their tech support is very helpful.

    MIchael

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    Quote Originally Posted by mperdue
    aptfast.com also sells air horns, stub stacks and K&N filters. The HS6 SU flange is identical to the 240Z SU carbs. Here are the ram pipes (air horns) they sell ($31.75 each):



    They also sell K&N Filters on a different page. May want to compare prices. Their tech support is very helpful.

    MIchael
    Damn, its almost a shame to cover up those beauties with K&Ns!

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    Quote Originally Posted by beandip
    is this seat of the pants HP or actual HP from a dyno readout ? I havent seen any real numbers yet from a dyno that shows a gain from the stock air cleaner box with a K & N filter.
    I agree. I haven't seen any actual, factual numbers EVER to support claims of increased HP over the stock air cleaner w/ a K & N.

    "Seat o' the pants" statements just don't prove anything. The crew chief for the 2001 & 2002 ITS National Champion (in a Z car) did back to back dyno runs with various air filter assemblies, and reported no gains over the stock set up with K&N's. His word and the word of Scott Bruning (original owner of ZTherapy) are plenty good enough for me.

    Until I see Dyno charts that prove the claims otherwise, it's all Mexican food in those "seat o' the pants".

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    So Carl, you did see some humor in my story about the Mexican food! Your a pal!

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    Quote Originally Posted by 240ZX
    Damn, its almost a shame to cover up those beauties with K&Ns!
    Aptfast didn't recommend using ram jets (air horns) with K&N filters. They are too long so the opening ends up close to the metal plate at the top of thefilter which restricts airflow. You'd be better off goign with a short stub stack with K&N's according to them. The ram jets are for a sock type filter. Anyone else feel free to chime in if this is totally off base - but it makes sense to me.

    Stub stacks:

    just noticed this thread is months old. Oh well..

    michael

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    Quote Originally Posted by mperdue
    aptfast.com also sells air horns, stub stacks and K&N filters. The HS6 SU flange is identical to the 240Z SU carbs. Here are the ram pipes (air horns) they sell ($31.75 each):



    They also sell K&N Filters on a different page. May want to compare prices. Their tech support is very helpful.

    MIchael
    Where can I get a sock filter for these Ram Pipes?

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    Try calling K&N tech support.
    A Z is beautiful from any angle, I just happen to prefer to view from the drivers' seat!

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    I don't think KN offers this type of filter.

    I was thinking about getting 2 longflo replacement elements $5 each and zip tie 1 on each horn.

    I could have sworn I seen a race car with a setup that looked like this.

    Would this work?

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    If you call them, you will know!
    I have had them get involved with a project simply bacuse the thought it was interesting(and they thought it would be marketable).
    Will
    P.S. probably!
    A Z is beautiful from any angle, I just happen to prefer to view from the drivers' seat!

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    Before I call could someone first explain what exactly is a sock filter so I don't sound like an idiot.

    I figured it was just a foam type filter that fit's over the horn. I didn't think KN made foam type filters. I willl call them.

    I was thinking also this could work if I took the filter out of it's housing and zip tied it to the horn. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/HKS-3...QQcmdZViewItem

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    The sock can be made from their media as well(they use cotton gauze(cheese cloth) over a formed screen). It would need a wire(screen) frame to support it inside(keep it open and from being sucked into the carb), and a hose clamp/tiewrap to secure it to the ouside of the horn to keep all of the intake air flowing through, and not around, the filter.
    Will

    P.S. you are on the right track, but foam is quite restrictive
    Last edited by hls30.com; 08-31-2005 at 07:34 PM.
    A Z is beautiful from any angle, I just happen to prefer to view from the drivers' seat!

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    Picture of a Filter sox I found online.


    I think I'm going to order 2 ram stacks and then try to make something like this.
    Some aluminum sheet metal and see if my old man can TIG something up. Slap a 3" universal KN on the end and I think this will be badass.

    Going to be awhile have a 73 and just bought some SUs so still need to figure out how to rig this up.

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    What about putting a box around them and filtering the biggest side they aren't sticking through?
    Will
    A Z is beautiful from any angle, I just happen to prefer to view from the drivers' seat!

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    I'm trying to visualize this can you explain it different?

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    Like an oem 240Z airbox only sealed at the intake end and the "top" a filter.
    Will
    A Z is beautiful from any angle, I just happen to prefer to view from the drivers' seat!

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    Oh ok I see now. That just may work.
    Eric

    1973 Datsun 240z

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    Glad to be of assistance-post pictures of what you do.
    Will
    A Z is beautiful from any angle, I just happen to prefer to view from the drivers' seat!

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    I will thanks! It's going to be a while, need to get the SUs on first.
    Eric

    1973 Datsun 240z

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