which air cleaners?

**e_racer1999** · 08-09-2004

i'm debating on which air cleaners to get for my SUs... right now i'm torn between the K&N round assemblies (similar to the ones in the second link) and the ramflo/longflow style air cleaners that MSA and victoria british sell... i plan on using MSAs air horns on my carbs to optimize flow efficency as wel. i was pretty much set on the ramflo ones but then i read on hybridz that if the intake backfires it will melt the air filter element (that wouldn't be too yummy). i plan on purchasing these very soon so any input would be great!

ps.... since the ramflos will save me a little $$, they are a little more attractive...

RAMFLO:
http://www.zcarparts.com/store/merch...ry_Code=PFFC08

K&N:
http://www.zcarparts.com/store/merch...ry_Code=PFFC10

AIR HORNS:
http://www.zcarparts.com/store/merch...ry_Code=PFFC07

**26th-Z** · 08-09-2004

I think you will get better filter protection from the K&Ns. I like the K&Ns.

**Victor Laury** · 08-09-2004

I not certain, but I think the K&N's are 3'' deep and work better with the air horns, allowing you to get the full benefit of the horns.
Don't quote me, There are far greater experts out there than little ol me.

**Bambikiller240** · 08-09-2004

Why not just buy a K&N filter for the stock Air Cleaner Assembly? Then you don't have to figure out plumbing places for the Float Bowl vent hoses, and the the Flow Guide Valve.

**dspillman** · 08-09-2004

Can't go wrong with the setup from ITG...MA sells them, large air volume good flow. Little $$$ but worth it. I've seen only 2.5-3 HP lost on RW DYNO

David Spillman

**e_racer1999** · 08-09-2004

Originally Posted by Bambikiller240

Why not just buy a K&N filter for the stock Air Cleaner Assembly? Then you don't have to figure out plumbing places for the Float Bowl vent hoses, and the the Flow Guide Valve.

because the stock air cleaner doesn't flow well enough for me, and i don't want to cut holes in it since i don't plan on butchering it. also, the winter/summer flap keeps closing on me when i'm driving and it gets me al hot and bothered....

Originally Posted by dspillman

Can't go wrong with the setup from ITG...MA sells them, large air volume good flow. Little $$$ but worth it. I've seen only 2.5-3 HP lost on RW DYNO

David Spillman

the ITG looks ok, but i'm afraid that it might have the same effect if my intake backfires. also, i don't believe that it filters as well....

**Bambikiller240** · 08-09-2004

Originally Posted by e_racer1999

because the stock air cleaner doesn't flow well enough for me, and i don't want to cut holes in it since i don't plan on butchering it. also, the winter/summer flap keeps closing on me when i'm driving and it gets me al hot and bothered....

the ITG looks ok, but i'm afraid that it might have the same effect if my intake backfires. also, i don't believe that it filters as well....

Anything you put on the car to replace the stock air cleaner will flow WORSE without Air Horns. Don't believe me? Talk to ZTherapy!

**dspillman** · 08-09-2004

Jason,
I've seen the foam burn, but only under odd ball circumstances..
Fellow racer lost his altenator, and battery lost power, causing misfiring engine, did catch on fire and burn big spot in the hood.
Proper running car shouldn't have that kinda flame.

The element is 2 stage on ITG, with proper oiling , I've had no filtration or lack of filtering problems....

david

**dspillman** · 08-09-2004

Originally Posted by Bambikiller240

Anything you put on the car to replace the stock air cleaner will flow WORSE without Air Horns. Don't believe me? Talk to ZTherapy!

Yea I second that,
Without stock horns, you will gain a couple HP up top, but torque curve drops way off.
Those MA horns look awesome...I may have to give em a try.

david

**Chino 240Z** · 08-10-2004

I had some cheap air tubes on and after I replaced them with those full radius (MSA ones), I did see some smoother running difference and power gains too (but not more than a couple HP). The K&Ns are probably more durable but they are a tight fit to get on between the air horns and in inner fender wall, but you can do it. I have mine off & on often and hate fighting with them. I usually make Mrs. Chino do it, she has more patience with them than I do. Regarding the fuel bowl vent, you could put a nipple fitting on the K&N backing plate, or route it to a small inline filter or into a seperate overflow canister. But don't cap it or restrict its free air flow.
Good luck.

**e_racer1999** · 08-10-2004

i'm probably going to get the k&ns with the air horns. thanks for the input guys!

**jmark** · 05-24-2005

Jason,

How do you like the K & N's? How hard are they to install? Here is my current setup. Works OK just doesn't look good.

**zguitar71** · 05-24-2005

Originally Posted by e_racer1999

because the stock air cleaner doesn't flow well enough for me, and i don't want to cut holes in it since i don't plan on butchering it. also, the winter/summer flap keeps closing on me when i'm driving and it gets me al hot and bothered....

the ITG looks ok, but i'm afraid that it might have the same effect if my intake backfires. also, i don't believe that it filters as well....

I just finished watching the Ztherapy video and installing new carbs. One thing I learned is the stock air box with the integrated air horns flows as good or better than the aftermarket horns. They tested different types of brands including the ones MSA sells and found the stock unit to be superior. Bambikiller240 is correct. Regardless what you do use some type of horn or you will loose power. I use the stock unite and make plenty of power and will not ever change my set up because I do not think I will gain anything but better looks.

If your intake backfires you do not have the carbs set up right and you could eventually have an engine compartment fire, problem with the SU's. the type of filter and horns should not cause that problem the tune of the carbs is the problem. Call Ztherapy and ask them some questions about the flow and tune of the carbs and try watching their video, it is worth it.

**jmark** · 05-24-2005

Anybody got a nice '71 stock air cleaner for sale?

**abas** · 05-24-2005

Originally Posted by jmark

How do you like the K & N's? How hard are they to install? Here is my current setup. Works OK just doesn't look good.

I quite like the look of your setup actually

. I was thinking of making a copy for mine out of an old stock air filter cover I have to go with the K&N I have just bought.

**240ZX** · 05-24-2005

Originally Posted by jmark

Jason,

How do you like the K & N's? How hard are they to install? Here is my current setup. Works OK just doesn't look good.

Looks just fine! Only improvement would be a trip to the chrome plater. I also intended to do what you did but went with the round K&Ns and the TWR velocity stack (sold by MSA). As Craig mentioned, the filter element on the round K&Ns is a little difficult to install, but if you slightly squeeze it into an oval, it will slip right over the two long outer plate mounting studs and velocity stacks.....won't effect the filter element, as long as you are careful not to poke a hole in it.

**Zrush** · 05-24-2005

K&N Filters for everything, air filter, oil filter and fuel filter. Scott even retro fitted a K&N for my vacuum cleaner and A/C unit in the house. Not really but that would be cool

Vicky

**240ZX** · 05-24-2005

Originally Posted by Zrush

K&N Filters for everything, air filter, oil filter and fuel filter. Scott even retro fitted a K&N for my vacuum cleaner and A/C unit in the house. Not really but that would be cool

Vicky

Hi Vic, I once tried a K&N filter in my shorts, after a heavy dose of Mexican food, but blew the filter element right out......K&N filters are great but not impervious to really hot gas!!! If you know what I mean!

Just kidding of course!

**Alfadog** · 05-24-2005

Can I ask a little side question - how often should one replace their air filter??

**Bambikiller240** · 05-24-2005

With K & N filters you don't replace them, you clean them, re-apply oil, and reuse.

K & N makes a great filter for the stock air cleaner can. Why start butchering OEM stock parts when there is no need?

**e_racer1999** · 05-24-2005

i like my set-up just fine. flows like a champ, and you wouldn't believe the power gains over a STOCK (i mean stock air filter, too) air cleaner ass'y...

**beandip** · 05-24-2005

is this seat of the pants HP or actual HP from a dyno readout ? I havent seen any real numbers yet from a dyno that shows a gain from the stock air cleaner box with a K & N filter.

**zguitar71** · 05-25-2005

Originally Posted by beandip

is this seat of the pants HP or actual HP from a dyno readout ? I havent seen any real numbers yet from a dyno that shows a gain from the stock air cleaner box with a K & N filter.

I agree. Seat of the pants HP can often be infuenced by the wish of more HP. Real number do not lie and I do not think the difference can be felt between the stock and not stock set ups and if it does make more power at all then I bet it is no more than 2 HP which will not be felt with the a$$ dyno.

**e_racer1999** · 05-25-2005

seat of the pants, however, it REALLY can be felt. it's not just psychological, even though it sounds sooooooo good......

**jmark** · 05-25-2005

Got your pics Jason. Would the '72 stock air filter housing be the same as my car would have orginally had? It was built in 2/71 and is an early Series II.

**e_racer1999** · 05-25-2005

to my knowledge yes. i believe only the series 1 did not have the flapper...

quote from ztherapy: "Nissan came out with the original "non-flapper" in 1969. Late 1970, smog laws dictated a heat riser be added to preheat the incoming air for the winter. This is called the "Flapper" style air cleaner."

**jmark** · 05-25-2005

Originally Posted by e_racer1999

because the stock air cleaner doesn't flow well enough for me, and i don't want to cut holes in it since i don't plan on butchering it. also, the winter/summer flap keeps closing on me when i'm driving and it gets me al hot and bothered....

the ITG looks ok, but i'm afraid that it might have the same effect if my intake backfires. also, i don't believe that it filters as well....

Jason, Is the flapper working correctly?

**e_racer1999** · 05-25-2005

actually, what it was was some paint on the spring was inhibiting the stretch of the spring.... scraped off a wee bit o' paint and it feels much more solid!

**jmark** · 05-25-2005

Jason,

PM me what you want for it. I would like to buy a refurbished one from Z Therapy but $300! Does Z Therapy give any club discounts?

**mperdue** · 05-25-2005

aptfast.com also sells air horns, stub stacks and K&N filters. The HS6 SU flange is identical to the 240Z SU carbs. Here are the ram pipes (air horns) they sell ($31.75 each):

They also sell K&N Filters on a different page. May want to compare prices. Their tech support is very helpful.

MIchael

**240ZX** · 05-25-2005

Originally Posted by mperdue

aptfast.com also sells air horns, stub stacks and K&N filters. The HS6 SU flange is identical to the 240Z SU carbs. Here are the ram pipes (air horns) they sell ($31.75 each):

They also sell K&N Filters on a different page. May want to compare prices. Their tech support is very helpful.

MIchael

Damn, its almost a shame to cover up those beauties with K&Ns!

**Bambikiller240** · 05-25-2005

Originally Posted by beandip

is this seat of the pants HP or actual HP from a dyno readout ? I havent seen any real numbers yet from a dyno that shows a gain from the stock air cleaner box with a K & N filter.

I agree. I haven't seen any actual, factual numbers EVER to support claims of increased HP over the stock air cleaner w/ a K & N.

"Seat o' the pants" statements just don't prove anything. The crew chief for the 2001 & 2002 ITS National Champion (in a Z car) did back to back dyno runs with various air filter assemblies, and reported no gains over the stock set up with K&N's. His word and the word of Scott Bruning (original owner of ZTherapy) are plenty good enough for me.

Until I see Dyno charts that prove the claims otherwise, it's all Mexican food in those "seat o' the pants".

**240ZX** · 05-25-2005

So Carl, you did see some humor in my story about the Mexican food! Your a pal!

**mperdue** · 05-25-2005

Originally Posted by 240ZX

Damn, its almost a shame to cover up those beauties with K&Ns!

Aptfast didn't recommend using ram jets (air horns) with K&N filters. They are too long so the opening ends up close to the metal plate at the top of thefilter which restricts airflow. You'd be better off goign with a short stub stack with K&N's according to them. The ram jets are for a sock type filter. Anyone else feel free to chime in if this is totally off base - but it makes sense to me.

Stub stacks:

just noticed this thread is months old. Oh well..

michael

**0100** · 08-31-2005

Originally Posted by mperdue

aptfast.com also sells air horns, stub stacks and K&N filters. The HS6 SU flange is identical to the 240Z SU carbs. Here are the ram pipes (air horns) they sell ($31.75 each):

They also sell K&N Filters on a different page. May want to compare prices. Their tech support is very helpful.

MIchael

Where can I get a sock filter for these Ram Pipes?

**hls30.com** · 08-31-2005

Try calling K&N tech support.

**0100** · 08-31-2005

I don't think KN offers this type of filter.

I was thinking about getting 2 longflo replacement elements $5 each and zip tie 1 on each horn.

I could have sworn I seen a race car with a setup that looked like this.

Would this work?

**hls30.com** · 08-31-2005

If you call them, you will know!
I have had them get involved with a project simply bacuse the thought it was interesting(and they thought it would be marketable).
Will
P.S. probably!

**0100** · 08-31-2005

Before I call could someone first explain what exactly is a sock filter so I don't sound like an idiot.

I figured it was just a foam type filter that fit's over the horn. I didn't think KN made foam type filters. I willl call them.

I was thinking also this could work if I took the filter out of it's housing and zip tied it to the horn. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/HKS-3...QQcmdZViewItem

**hls30.com** · 08-31-2005

The sock can be made from their media as well(they use cotton gauze(cheese cloth) over a formed screen). It would need a wire(screen) frame to support it inside(keep it open and from being sucked into the carb), and a hose clamp/tiewrap to secure it to the ouside of the horn to keep all of the intake air flowing through, and not around, the filter.
Will

P.S. you are on the right track, but foam is quite restrictive

**0100** · 08-31-2005

Picture of a Filter sox I found online.

I think I'm going to order 2 ram stacks and then try to make something like this.
Some aluminum sheet metal and see if my old man can TIG something up. Slap a 3" universal KN on the end and I think this will be badass.

Going to be awhile have a 73 and just bought some SUs so still need to figure out how to rig this up.

**hls30.com** · 08-31-2005

What about putting a box around them and filtering the biggest side they aren't sticking through?
Will

**0100** · 08-31-2005

I'm trying to visualize this can you explain it different?

**hls30.com** · 08-31-2005

Like an oem 240Z airbox only sealed at the intake end and the "top" a filter.
Will

**0100** · 08-31-2005

Oh ok I see now. That just may work.

**hls30.com** · 08-31-2005

Glad to be of assistance-post pictures of what you do.
Will

**0100** · 08-31-2005

I will thanks! It's going to be a while, need to get the SUs on first.

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