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Thread: rewiring the 240K

  1. #1
    www.project240k.com khughes's Avatar
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    Default rewiring the 240K

    Hi Guys,

    i have been thinking of completely stripping out the main body wiring harness in the 240k, and replacing it with a US universal kit such as this one (either 12 or 18 circuit):

    http://www.painlesswiring.com/webcat...versalharn.php


    I am pretty proficiant with soldering etc, and i was going to just run my own wiring, but as it seems hard (and very $$$) to find a decent fuse box here in Aus (and i really can't be bothered trying to get an used fusebox rewired), i figured i should just pay the ~$500 and buy a kit and install it myself (certainly cheaper than hacking the main loom, screwing it up and ahving to pay a pro to fix it).

    The only problems that i see could possibly be would be it being for LHD (which should simply be a case of re-routing), finding the right wires, and wiring in a dash dimmer (ADR?).

    anyone see any other issues with doing this? it looks like it will also sort out issues with the regulator wiring etc. too.. plus the engine harness from teh RB25DET is used, so no engine functions are used anyways.

    the kits seem to be very well recommended by the Z guys on hybridz.org
    07/74 Datsun 240K GL Hardtop KHGC110 - #5497 (longest 240k project in history?)
    1970 Datsun 240Z HS30 #212

    www.project240k.com - project details on all my cars

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    www.project240k.com khughes's Avatar
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    probably a good thing for me to note that i am planning on replacing all instrument guages with autometer ones anyway so most of my dash wiring requires work (i wonder if i can fit LED's while i am there ).
    07/74 Datsun 240K GL Hardtop KHGC110 - #5497 (longest 240k project in history?)
    1970 Datsun 240Z HS30 #212

    www.project240k.com - project details on all my cars

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    V8 convertible 240kconvertible's Avatar
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    I checked out the Rare spares site you directed me too, it has wiring harnesses there which are right hand drive. Is there any reason why you're going for a left one?

    I'm trying to keep as many of my stock gauges as possible but with led's as well. I have a guy in China who can change the standard lights to led but I don't really want to get it done over there. I'll post details on this thread if I find anyone over here.

    A mate who's doing all of my wiring ( it's all being replaced with new ) said that if your half intelligent, handy with a soldering iron and can read a wiring diagram you shouldn't have any problems with what your doing.

    I have my harness in 4 section now,

    the boot part,
    from the firewall to the boot part,
    under dash section,
    inside engine bay section.

    It all just clips together and comes apart quite easily (except for the two main harness clips they took me ages to get apart)

  4. #4
    www.project240k.com khughes's Avatar
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    i didn't realise anyone in australia sold painless.. damn they are $$$ compared to the states though! might do a quick search for another verndor here in oz
    07/74 Datsun 240K GL Hardtop KHGC110 - #5497 (longest 240k project in history?)
    1970 Datsun 240Z HS30 #212

    www.project240k.com - project details on all my cars

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    Registered User aarc240's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by khughes
    Hi Guys,

    i have been thinking of completely stripping out the main body wiring harness in the 240k, and replacing it with a US universal kit such as this one (either 12 or 18 circuit):

    http://www.painlesswiring.com/webcat...versalharn.php


    I am pretty proficiant with soldering etc, and i was going to just run my own wiring, but as it seems hard (and very $$$) to find a decent fuse box here in Aus (and i really can't be bothered trying to get an used fusebox rewired), i figured i should just pay the ~$500 and buy a kit and install it myself (certainly cheaper than hacking the main loom, screwing it up and ahving to pay a pro to fix it).

    The only problems that i see could possibly be would be it being for LHD (which should simply be a case of re-routing), finding the right wires, and wiring in a dash dimmer (ADR?).

    anyone see any other issues with doing this? it looks like it will also sort out issues with the regulator wiring etc. too.. plus the engine harness from teh RB25DET is used, so no engine functions are used anyways.

    the kits seem to be very well recommended by the Z guys on hybridz.org
    Having used several of these in rewiring 50's & 60's era lead sleds I can give you this much.
    The quality is really tops but....
    1. headlight wiring is 'conventional' with switched power to the light beam needed and common earth - not compatible with your C110 light/dip switch combo. Solutions are to use a GM product but then you have to fit that or use relays to run Datsun configuration for the switch with extra wiring.
    2. indicator wiring is configured for a GM switch unless you special order
    3. no provision is made for hazard flashers
    4. alternator wiring has to be modified to suit Australian integrated regulator units (not hard)
    5. LHD isn't an issue - just flop the harness over
    6. you won't have ANY means of separating harness sections 'cause it's all wired from the fuse box out as continuous wires

    Can't get a decent fuse box in Oz??
    There are some pretty good choices available from Hella, Bosch and Narva.
    Anyway, what's wrong with getting a 'shotgun method' unit from something like a VL Commodore or late model Nissan? Lots of fuses, all the relays you will need.
    Just shorten the wires, solder join to the stubs and use heat shrink sleeving for insulation and reinforcing.
    If you have doubts about soldering neatly, get some thin wall brass tube from your hobby shop.
    Tin the inside (heat and flow solder through), tin the wires, fit a short sleeve of tube and 'sweat' the joint to flow the solder inside. Then use the heat shrink tube.
    If your REALLY paranoid, use heat shrink that has low melting point glue on the inside for a totally environmentally sealed joint. Works for Antarctica!

    For a source of wire with lots of colour code options get a harness or two from an 'up-market' version from Nissan (smashed 350z's are good). Cars that have lots of optional **** like power windows aircon etc are good.
    Don't mix brands - they use different logic so colour coding gets real confusing.

    Don't bother using the original harness, it was only just adequate in the first place and has since suffered from heat, air, ozone, oil, adhesive and God knows what else.

    If you have or get a set of 'jewelers' screwdrivers you CAN remove the connectors from the housings. That means you CAN remove the original wires entirely. The original connectors clean up nicely with a slosh around in mild hydrochloric or oxalic acid (NOT nitric or sulphuric) and can then be reused with new wiring for a neat result.

    When 'looming' either use top grade tape (Nitto) or go for convoluted tube jacketing.

    hth!!

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    www.project240k.com khughes's Avatar
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    Thanks,

    that is some great advice (as usual!), i was already a little cautious about the kits as it seems that they have no brake warning lights etc., i hadn't noticed that they missed out on the hazards too... i don't quite understand how the supposed best of the universal wiring looms, can miss out on important features like that (i presume the american's need hazards and failure lights too..)

    I will pick up an R33 GTST body loom tomorrow (much cheaper at $100), and strip it down to what i need.. hopefully it will make pairing the engine loom to it very easy.

    When you say mild hydrocloric acid, what sort of concentration are you talking? should i use some type of degreaser beforehand to remove any grease / dirt buildup as well?

    can you fill me in on what the datsun configuration is for the headlights? i will probably need to modify this with the R33 loom as well i would imagine. i am really going to have to learn how to decipher wiring diagrams very quickly

    Kent
    07/74 Datsun 240K GL Hardtop KHGC110 - #5497 (longest 240k project in history?)
    1970 Datsun 240Z HS30 #212

    www.project240k.com - project details on all my cars

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    Registered User aarc240's Avatar
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    By all means use degreaser first followed by a water bath.
    Mild hydrochloric acid:
    start with 'spirits of salts' from any large hardware store (comes in a small black plastic bottle)
    about half a cup of distilled or demineralised water in a plastic or glass container
    add acid to water to approximately 20% by volume (ie 4 parts water plus 1 part acid)
    btw NEVER add water to acid - it can boil up into a small vapour explosion (nasty!!)

    after cleaning with acid give the parts a good long rinse in clean water

    apologies for the delay - we were out playing in the dirt!
    Last edited by aarc240; 10-01-2006 at 10:53 PM.

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    Registered User aarc240's Avatar
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    Headlight wiring is pretty basic as long as you understand that things are 'upside down'!
    Essentially power is applied through the fusible link to a dual relay and from there to the switches.
    The switches ground the appropriate part the relay which then grounds either high or low beam element(s) as required.
    Two more fusible links also supply power to the common terminal on the lamp(s).

    The catch is the column switches. Do you have two switches on the right side of the column? If so, does the one closest to the dash switch the lights on/off plus do hi/lo beam and does the one closest to the s'wheel do indicators plus passing beam?
    I assume you do.
    If that is the case then you can't easily change the headlight operation to a more 'conventional' arrangement without losing some functionality.

    The best answer is to duplicate the factory arrangement out to but not including the relay. Use that wiring to switch relays and use the relays to drive the headlights in a conventional manner with earthed common and power applied to the beam when needed.

    This also allows you to put semi-sealed beam halogen headlamps in without frying wires.

    Get familiar with wiring diagrams by breaking it down into logical sections. Nissan even broke it down into smaller chunks already! Page BE-5 in the FSM is just the light wiring.

    If you are using C110 column with indicator switch plus combo switch I can help out with the wiring diagram for my modified harness (just the light bit as in BE-5).

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    www.project240k.com khughes's Avatar
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    yep, i have the 2 stalks, exactly as you mentioned. I am glad you brought this up, as i was planning to run semi-sealed beam's and was planning to upgrade the headlight wiring to something beefier anyways (but i hadn't started my research on it yet).

    i would love a copy of your diagram (maybe post here for future ref?)

    this is such a help!
    07/74 Datsun 240K GL Hardtop KHGC110 - #5497 (longest 240k project in history?)
    1970 Datsun 240Z HS30 #212

    www.project240k.com - project details on all my cars

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    Assuming an attachment means the same thing on this site!
    Dang, it worked!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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    Registered User aarc240's Avatar
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    If you want more lights on the front (like me!) then it's pretty easy to add wiring that satisfies the fuzz.
    Add a 25A relay for each pair of 100W lamps.
    Supply one side of the contacts in each relay from a new fusible link (a second assy from another K works nicely and can be fitted alongside the original for a 'stock' look).
    Run wires from the other side of the contacts to the front of the car and connect the lamps.
    ok, we'll assume two driving lights plus two fog lights.
    Working with the relay attached to the driving lights. Connect one side of the relay coil to hi beam at the output of the hi-beam relay. Run a wire from the other side of the coil back to a switch in the dash or console. Wire the other side of the switch to ground.
    Repeat this for the second (fog light) relay but this time connect to the lo-beam.

    You can leave the switches both on and the fogs will run with lo-beam but not with hi-beam, the driving lights will run with hi-beam but not with lo-beam.
    Switches off will kill the appropriate lamps regardless of beam selected.

    If you get a sticky cop who insists on only 6 white lights on the front use amber fogs and then modify the parking lamp circuit so that park is earthed THROUGH the driving lights. In other words, what should be an earth for the park lamp now connects to the supply side of the driving lamps.
    When the driving lamps come on with hi-beam the park lamps turn off ('cause there is now 12V on both sides of the globe) only to magically turn back on when the driving lamps are switched off!
    Last edited by aarc240; 10-03-2006 at 04:45 AM.

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    Registered User aarc240's Avatar
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    I didn't think to explain this before.
    If anyone wants to get a nice 'stock' look then a neat trick is to use that black steel cover stuffed in the corner behind the battery.
    Add a second fusible link block on the outside alongside the original.
    Inside, re-orient the regulator (if still in use) and chuck the original headlight relay.
    Enough room can be made to fit relay mount bases from Ford Fairlanes to accomodate 6 small 'cube' relays for headlights, driving lights, fog lights and horn.
    Do the wiring and looming neatly and even an expert won't detect that it isn't standard (until they lift that black housing!)

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    slightly off-topic, but my car's got a bit of a power drain situation: whenever the brake lights or turnsignals go on, the headlights dim accordingly. troubleshooting ideas?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mat Big Hat
    slightly off-topic, but my car's got a bit of a power drain situation: whenever the brake lights or turn signals go on, the headlights dim accordingly. troubleshooting ideas?
    Start by cleaning up every body earth point. As the brake lights are involved, pay particular attention to the rear light earths.

    Unscrew each fastener, lift the terminal, scrape/sand body and terminal to bright metal, apply a thin smear of grease (copper base if you've got it but not critical) to both.

    Remove all globes and clean. Check for corrosion inside the globe holder and if there is much carefully scrape/sand to bright metal and coat with a smear of grease.

    You may need to clean each multi-way plug/socket too.

    It's a peculiarity of early Datsun's that when earths are not really good you get some weird interaction which is most noticable in the headlights!

    There could still be a real power drain so if earth cleanup doesn't fix it pull the globes from the rear lights and see if the headlights dim then.
    Last edited by aarc240; 10-03-2006 at 04:38 PM.

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    www.project240k.com khughes's Avatar
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    thank you so much! that makes a lot of sense.

    i just have to find the time to sort through the rather large box full of wiring now
    07/74 Datsun 240K GL Hardtop KHGC110 - #5497 (longest 240k project in history?)
    1970 Datsun 240Z HS30 #212

    www.project240k.com - project details on all my cars

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    www.project240k.com khughes's Avatar
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    oh man.. i have a massive mess of wires now! and just my luck, i can't find an R33 GTST full body wiring diagram anywere (engine diagrams are no problem).. i have a LOT of tracing and guessing to do.. i also don't have any body control modules etc. so not sure if that will affect me,
    07/74 Datsun 240K GL Hardtop KHGC110 - #5497 (longest 240k project in history?)
    1970 Datsun 240Z HS30 #212

    www.project240k.com - project details on all my cars

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    OK, you have what you need in the R33 engine diag, the RB25DET (source car) engine diag and the C110 diag.

    First off, in the body you only need to replicate the C110 plus any desired extras and with addition of any RB25DET related wiring you wish to make integral to the finished harness.
    I wouldn't be inclined to do that myself, preferring to keep the engine to ECU harness with all sensor wiring etc as a completely seperate unit with ONLY the essential interconnections for 'ignition on' signal etc.
    Have a browse on http://www.msefi.com/ forums for ideas on creating a good engine harness.

    On the body side of things, make out a list of the 'extras' you want like driving lights, electric fuel pumps etc.
    Work out how you need these to operate and where any interconnections need to be (electrically).

    If you have a decent size shed floor to work on it will be easier to draw out the C110 profile full size.
    Mark in the postions of components (fuse box, lights, pumps etc etc). At each position add info for distance above car floor.

    Start laying out your colour coded wires on that 'plan' and you will be surprised how quickly you will see what is needed. Remember to allow for the height above your car floor reference plane - it's a three dimensional thing.
    It's a good idea to leave extra wire at each termination point, that way you can tape the harness together at say 300mm intervals (and every branch point) and trial fit it in the car to determine just where you want to cut the wires.

    While laying out the wires, use a photocopy of the source diagrams (enlarged if need be) and mark off each wire with a pencil as you do it.

    With a first time harness, just break the job down into smaller chunks. Say the front light wiring as one task, the rear body wiring as another, etc.

    When it all seems too hard, remember that people wire things like Space Shuttles successfully. And do ask for help.

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    Registered User aarc240's Avatar
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    Some additional things to make life a bit easier.

    For mounting 2 or 3 relays in some spot, get the mount plates, screws, relay bases and a chunk of harness from a junked 1985 onwards Ford Fairlane.

    For relays in those, collect some from VL and later Commodores. The ones you want have the 'internals' diag molded into the side and on that diag you can see a small rectangular block in parallel to the coil. It's a 'snubber' resistor which suppresses the back EMF pulse which normally occurs when a relay switches off. Very good when ECU's get into the car!

    Watch the terminal configuration - there are a few variants in those supposedly standard relays! It's a good idea to source the relays from one make & model but not always feasible. If any differences are necessary, document it in your own wiring manual for future reference.

    If you solder any terminals, use heatshrink tubing for strain relief to at least 15mm down the wire. Otherwise you WILL get vibration breakage where the solder ends and plain copper strands start.

    Make sure you source from the battery as direct as reasonably possible for electronics.

    Use a common earth ('chassis') point for everything you can. Obviously front and rear lights etc don't have this but at each end of the car make a good solid connection to chassis and use it. Scraping a circular patch to bare metal and then 'tinning' that gives a good long term solution, but a clean bright patch of metal with a thin smear of grease is nearly as good. Any terminals bolted to either of those will make good connection.
    Last edited by aarc240; 10-16-2006 at 05:34 AM.

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