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Thread: Custom Wiring Harnesses

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    Default Custom Wiring Harnesses

    Hello all!

    I have been going through my project car, attempting to document and plan all the work ahead of me. I have examined the body, interior, engine and last weekend finally took a good look at my Zed's wiring. It's in decent shape, but has been hacked a bit and painted over (possibly several times). I've done a few searches here and at Hybrid Z and have noticed that there are not many wiring/re-wiring options available to us (Painless aside).

    I work as an electronics technician and do wiring repairs and replacements quite frequently and, as such, have been considering re-doing the wiring on my car. I know many people swap engines, add fuel injection, aftermarket ignition...etc. Has anyone on this site re-wired thier car on thier own (or know of someone who has)? A post in the 'Wanted' section added fuel to the fire, so to speak, and really has me thinking.

    How many people would be interested in a replacement (for stock) or modified wiring harness? Possibly with a firewall disconnect so the wiring harness can be removed WITH the engine. I created a setup like this for my RX-7 Turbo II (gone now to fund my Z!) and could easily (with my harness as an example and a wiring diagram) produce something similar for Z owners.

    PLEASE understand that I am merely trying to gauge interest. I don't own a business and am not looking to profit greatly from this endeavor. I am going to do this for my car regardless and was just wondering if anyone else would be interested. Wiring/re-wiring is a skill I posses and it may be my chance to help out the Z-community, which has helped me a TON!

    Thanks for reading my long post!

    -Keith
    Last edited by ZHadMan; 12-03-2003 at 05:55 AM.
    1973 240z (HLS30-139984), Root Beer Brown, and all mine!

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    Registered User Victor Laury's Avatar
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    I've been looking for a good source for the AMP Faston-Fastoff plastic connector blocks as used in the original harnesses. If your research uncovers any info, I'd appreciate if you'd pass it on.

    If originality wasn't an issue, I would prefer to use the GM Weather-Pac connectors and terminals. They are a MUCH better connector
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    Keith. I am looking at the Painless alternative right now in my street-legal race car. You're welcome to come wire my car! I would like to simplify, simplify, simplify.

    steve77
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    I've been looking for a good source for the AMP Faston-Fastoff plastic connector blocks as used in the original harnesses.
    Victor,
    AMP still offers the Faston/Fastoff style connectors, but I would imagine that they have changed a bit over the past 30 years. Probably minor changes in design and materials, but changed none-the-less. The original connectors could always be re-used for originalities sake, but they would have to been in good condition and a source for the pins/sockets might have to be found.

    When I have a chance I will take a closer look at my harness and take an inventory (and pictures) of the various connectors. I can easily get my hands on AMP and other connectors.
    1973 240z (HLS30-139984), Root Beer Brown, and all mine!

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    You're welcome to come wire my car! I would like to simplify, simplify, simplify.
    Steve,
    I would be glad to help you re-wire your car! Just need to set aside time and figure out how far you live from me! E-mail me with your ideas/goals and we can come up with a game plan... get things rolling.

    -Keith
    1973 240z (HLS30-139984), Root Beer Brown, and all mine!

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    Default Source for Connectors

    Victor/Keith,

    One of our members on the email list posted a source for connectors a couple of weeks ago. Here is the link: http://www.mouser.com/catalog/615/606.pdf

    And here's another source: http://store.yahoo.com/eagleday/blco.html

    Hope this helps!

    Marty

    PS: Victor, I think you have a Roadster too, right? Here is an interesting parts source: http://www.datsunparts.com/

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    Default Re: Custom Wiring Harnesses

    Originally posted by ZHadMan
    How many people would be interested in a replacement (for stock) or modified wiring harness? Possibly with a firewall disconnect so the wiring harness can be removed WITH the engine. I created a setup like this for my RX-7 Turbo II (gone now to fund my Z!) and could easily (with my harness as an example and a wiring diagram) produce something similar for Z owners.
    Hiya!! Yes, I am interested in something like this. In fact, I think the market for a replacement harness will be good. If nothing else, the engine harness is a biggie because most are in pretty bad shape.

    This is my next project on my restoration. I would certainly like to talk with you more about a quick release harness for my engine compartment. How long do you think something like that would take to build? I have an extra harness I can send you if you have the capability to rebuild it.

    -- Mike
    Mike

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    I am definately interested. Count me in.
    Last edited by kitkos; 12-03-2003 at 08:36 AM.
    1971 240z HLS302667
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    How long do you think something like that would take to build? I have an extra harness I can send you if you have the capability to rebuild it.
    Mike,

    Well... it depends on a couple different factors. How original is your wiring? Are you running any aftermarket ignition equipment using the stock wiring (if applicable)? Are you running any other equipment that you would like, or potentially would want, wired into the harness?

    A quick disconnect system would be 2 seperate harnesses (in effect). One on the interior (under the dash, passenger side) running to the firewall. The second harness would be the actual engine harness, running from the firewall into the engine bay.

    I could re-build your spare harness and have it soldered up and ready to go. BUT... since I do not have access to the wiring under the dash I would have to provide to you detailed instructions on how to wire up the female side of the connector. I would have to assume that your wiring is un-molested and stock. Do you have the ability to solder up the in-car side of the harness?

    Now, if I had the wiring diagram for the car, and approximate routing distances I could wire both harnesses and ship them back to you. This would save you potential headaches when trying to re-install them into your Z. I would still supply detailed instructions, including drawings/diagrams, to help you out.

    I hope I wasn't confusing! I will definately help anyone with thier wiring issues/needs. I just want to ensure that any work I do is up to YOUR spec and that you are COMPLETELY satisfied when all is said and done. It would just take some communication on both parts to gaurantee this.

    Thanks!
    -Keith
    1973 240z (HLS30-139984), Root Beer Brown, and all mine!

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    ...do you have a rough estimate of the price for a full set of harnesses, mostly stock with maybe a few extras thrown in?
    At this point that would be a difficult question to answer. It would largely depend on the cost of materials. I would have to take a hard look at a complete wiring harness (including the in-car and engine wiring), examine the various types of connectors, wire types...etc.

    On newer cars there are many connectors that have to be sourced directly from the manufacturer (Ford, GM, Toyota...etc) and they are very pricey! Victor mentioned that the original harnesses used AMP Faston/Fastoff connectors. Those can still be found (if slightly different than original) and we use their products here at work... so I can get those quite easily.

    Older cars (including ours) had simple electrical systems when compared to more modern vehicles. From my cursory examinations of my wiring harness I did not see anything that would be difficult to obtain or substitute. Later model Z cars, with fuel injection may be a bit different in this area.

    I do not have a digital camera, but if someone was able to take pictures of thier under-dash connectors (*hint hint* ) I would be better able to estimate a cost. More research must be done here, but I am not going to sit on this... I am very driven to see this accomplished.

    [edit]
    The Painless kit includes the fuse block and associated hardware, if I remember correctly. Many of us would not neccesarily need to replace ours... just the wiring. I could... depending on the condition of the part, re-furbish the Datsun original pieces in place of replacement. But that is a secondary matter.

    If I was gonna ball-park a price... hmmm... I could probably come in under or around the Painless price. My work, however, would not be for general or GM applications. It would be customized solely to the needs of the individual and thier Zed! lol
    Last edited by ZHadMan; 12-03-2003 at 11:33 AM.
    1973 240z (HLS30-139984), Root Beer Brown, and all mine!

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    Originally posted by ZHadMan
    Well... it depends on a couple different factors. How original is your wiring? Are you running any aftermarket ignition equipment using the stock wiring (if applicable)? Are you running any other equipment that you would like, or potentially would want, wired into the harness?
    Keith,

    I don't have any aftermarket items in the engine compartment. And, I'm thinking the quick disconnect will probably be more of a pain to install than it's worth. What about just a stock wire-for-wire replacement? The only pain in the ass will be getting the connectors for the ends of the wiring.

    If I sent you this wiring harness, could you simply copy it with new connectors and fittings?

    -- Mike
    Mike

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    If I sent you this wiring harness, could you simply copy it with new connectors and fittings?
    Mike,
    I sure could! Send me an E-mail or PM with your contact information and we'll work it all out. Is it possible for you to send me a picture of the harness, too? That way I can see how much of it is there and plan ahead for what may need to be replaced.

    -Keith
    1973 240z (HLS30-139984), Root Beer Brown, and all mine!

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    I'm going to have a similar situation with my restoration when I get to that point. I plan to at least re-wrap my harnesses. My engine bay harness is going to need some work as well. The direct wire for wire replacement is my direction.

    My source for connectors:
    http://store.yahoo.com/eagleday/blco.html

    I'm interested, but I'm not at that point of my project yet. Please keep me in mind as you get further into this.
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    Default Re: Source for Connectors

    Originally posted by Marty Rogan
    One of our members on the email list posted a source for connectors a couple of weeks ago. Here is the link: http://www.mouser.com/catalog/615/606.pdf

    And here's another source: http://store.yahoo.com/eagleday/blco.html

    PS: Victor, I think you have a Roadster too, right? Here is an interesting parts source: http://www.datsunparts.com/
    Marty, Those were the results of my first quest for these connectors- Here's the update.

    Mouser.com Does not have the spade style, Fastin-Faston connectors used by Nissan in either the 6.35 [.250] or 2.79 [.110] series (spade terminal width)

    http://store.yahoo.com/eagleday/ - Has .250 connectors very much like the AMP models used by Nissan, But only the 3 possition plug and socket fit (I bought one of each). The rest had differences in the pollarity assurances, so they won't work.

    http://www.datsunparts.com has most of the .250 size but not the .110 size. The roadster used bullet connectors instead.

    Tyco/AMP still manufactures all these connectors, exactly as used by Nissan 1965 on. Visiting the Tyco/amp pages, I was able to bring up the specs for every connector in our harnesses and all were listed as "Active". But finding a distributor that will bother to sell you 100 connectors and 600 terminal pieces is a different story.

    Inetesting, many of the blueprints on the Tyco/AMP site, for connectors used on our cars were labled "Yokohama, Japan". Obviously Nisssan didn't have to go very far to buy their connectors!
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    Newark is a great resource... probably my main one for this project. They will sell directly to the public and many times can get thier hands on parts not listed in their catalog. We order from them all the time, too!
    1973 240z (HLS30-139984), Root Beer Brown, and all mine!

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    Well, I'm easy. I want NOTHING stock. I am putting in a ZX motor (yes, FI) and ZX harness to ge the car sorted while my engine is being built and then plan on just simplifying it as the new motor (NOT FI) and 6AL requires. 240 harnesses SUCK. I don't like Car-B-Q. The ZX harness will provide all my lights and dash controls--including tach, pressure/temp, fuel--and also a fuse box that doesn melt and modern ignition. When my 'standard' motor is ready, my plan is to just eliminate the 'puter and engine sensors and wire the MSD in. Don't want to hijack this thread, as I think there is a great market for a 'restored' harness. Out.

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    The Nissan 240Z Restoration Program literature suggests re-wrapping all harnesses and mentions 3m Scotchbrand tape, p/n 054007-06130. I have yet to go looking for the tape to compare. My original tape is very thin and does not appear to have adhesive on one side.

    Thanks Victor and Marty for the references. This is exactly what makes this club great!
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    Thanks Victor and Marty for the references. This is exactly what makes this club great!
    I agree! This is by far one of the best forums I have ever been a member of. The members are quite mature, proffessional, and helpful!

    For those interested... here is my goals and plan for this project.

    At first I am going to concentrate on studying, measuring, and duplicating the 70-73 wiring harnesses. I am going to use my wiring as an example for the 73 models. I need to get my hands on the other model year pieces as well as applicable wiring diagrams of the car.

    I am also going to try and source out the original style connectors from a Tyco/Amp distributor. There are going to be several different types of connectors that I must obtain and if I have to buy in bulk quantities (100 or more) for each type I will have to front up some capital. Throw in model year differences and the issue is compounded. NOT impossible... just gonna take some time.

    For members interested in wiring harnesses where originality is NOT an issue (Zvoiture) this will happen much quicker. Tyco/Amp (and other companies) make many different types of connectors that will work just as well if not better and are easier to obtain (in smaller quantities). I still need to access a harness and diagram for specific model years, but that is a small matter.

    Second, I am going to try and work with some members who are local to me and have expressed interest in stock and custom wiring. This will give me a better idea of how difficult these harnesses will be to produce and to integrate into the Z. I am aiming for a simple installation, requiring minimal work on the members part when trying to install.

    My GOAL is to produce a more specific and user friendly alternative to kits offered by the likes of Painless. It will take some time and doing, but it is an undertaking I am serious about.

    If anyone needs any type of help with thier wiring needs then I am most available and eager to lend assistance. I think, when all said and done, that this will have been a meaningful endeavor. I appreciate everyones interest and support! Member involvement makes this an easier and enjoyable effort.
    1973 240z (HLS30-139984), Root Beer Brown, and all mine!

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    Resident Wino Zvoiture's Avatar
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    Need a '73 harness?

    steve
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    Originally posted by Zvoiture
    Need a '73 harness?
    Steve, I'd be interested to see the differences between the '71 and '73 harness. Doesn't the '73 have an extra set of wires to run the electronic fuel pump? If so, I'd like to copy that harness instead of my '71..... I will be running Mikuni's and need an electric pump.

    -- MIke
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    Even my early 72 (71 according to Zhome.com) had the power for the electric pump ready, wrapped in the Nissan blue tape. Blue taped connectors were optional or connectors that were not used in certain models. Mike I'm willing to bet good money that if you look at your harness, at the fuel sender, you'll find teminals wrapped in blue tape, for the fuel pump. I have this harness at home and I'll take a photo when I get there.
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    Durr.. I didn't think about this at first. But, we are talking about the engine compartment harness at the moment... forgot that won't have anything to do with the harness going to the back of the car.

    But still... new harnesses for Z's are probably needed.
    Mike

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    keith - please forgive me for this question, i know the last thing you need right now is pressure. I know you are serious about this project and are going to be working on it but,
    I am about 8 to 10 weeks out from needing a full harness (71 240).
    What are you projecting as a finish date?

    If funding is an obsticle in your quest I would be willing to "front" money for my harness.

    clayton
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    I'm interested in getting a replacement for the entire front section on my 280Z. The headlights would probablly be twice as bright, and I could get the AFM calibrated properly. ( Corroded wires have extra resistance which screws up the signal from the AFM.)

    A whole new harness for the entire car is what I really need. You'd think that after so many years and so many people complaining about their headlights & such, there would be a company somewhere making new OEM-type wiring harnesses.
    Like MGs as exampiles.

    Otherwise I think I'd be satisfied with a source of wire with the original colors & gauges, but not the crappy insulation, so I can replace sections and still keep the original wiring map, in case I need repairs/debugging.

    Even my cousin's '64 Mustang has better wiring!
    yeesh.
    Last edited by TomoHawk; 12-07-2003 at 11:03 AM.

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    I am entirely interested in this. Whomever owned my Z before me must've loved scissors and electrical tape...as most all sections of my wiring harnesses are composed more of random splices and electrical tape than they are of original materials. The body and underdash harnesses are my main concerns at the moment, as my engine harness seems untouched. However, I am highly considering converting my dual SUs to FI, and would need connectors for any additional equipment. Let me know what I can do to help.

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    I would just like to add my interest in your custom wiring project. My electronics (stock '70 240) caught on fire a couple weeks ago, and I'm in the midst of redoing parts of the interior and wiring.

    I was just about to order a painless wiring kit, so if I could get a more custom set, and support a Z-specific enterprise, I'm all for it.

    If you need any pictures, my dash is out and I can get you a digital picture of anything back there that you are interested in.

    Let me know --

    Steve

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    Zhadman , count me as very interested in a new harness , thanks

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    Originally posted by ZHadMan

    I do not have a digital camera, but if someone was able to take pictures of thier under-dash connectors (*hint hint* ) I would be better able to estimate a cost.
    It's kind of hard to take good pictures under the dash but since my dash pad is off and most of the wiring is exposed I thought I'd give it a shot. You probably need better views of the connectors (i.e., disconnected). I'll be disconnecting them all soon when I pull the dash frame out again. I put these up on my web site since they're hi-res (1600x1200)

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    Wow! Thanks MikeW!
    Most, if not all, of those connectors will be fairly easy to replace. They may not be stock, but very close. Mike, from Oregon, is sending me his 71 engine harness and Clayton (kitkos) is providing me with the Body Electrical section from the 71 FSM. A special thanks goes out to those who are taking time to help me with this project... even from afar! I've been very busy with work and family lately and every small contribution means a great deal to me. I am convinced that it's the MEMBERS who make this club great!

    To those who have expressed interest:
    Stay tuned! It's taking some time to get all this setup but I am in it whole-heartedly and am listening to requests!
    Thanks all!

    Keith H
    1973 240z (HLS30-139984), Root Beer Brown, and all mine!

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    Instead of 'guessing,' why couldn't somebody just contact Nissan directly and find out the specs for the required connectors? Plain and simple- just ask!
    Since it looks like standard AMP connectors, we just need to know which one(s).

    Why don't we just as Nissan if they would make up so many wiring harnessses, or just certain sections (engine, front, body, rear).

    They might be impressed enough with Hybridz.org, 240z.org, et al, they they might do something nice.

    Couldn't hurt to ask. Ask the right questions to the right people.

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    Originally posted by TomoHawk
    Instead of 'guessing,' why couldn't somebody just contact Nissan directly and find out the specs for the required connectors?

    Why don't we just as Nissan if they would make up so many wiring harnessses, or just certain sections (engine, front, body, rear).

    Couldn't hurt to ask. Ask the right questions to the right people.
    Sounds like someone is volunteering to make the call!

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    I work for Nissan in the parts department. Any specific questions you can ask me...I'm even willing to break out the microfiche reader for you all. However, I'm 99.9% positive that Nissan won't make more wiring harnesses. And if they did, they'll be upwards of 700 bucks a piece. Pretty much, Nissan's philosophy on old parts is, "Once they're gone, they're gone." They don't stand to make any real money off of manufacturing new old parts for cars in an increasingly small number. Anyhow, full wiring harnesses aren't a very common need, so...I'm putting my money on ZHadMan =)

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    Instead of 'guessing,' why couldn't somebody just contact Nissan directly and find out the specs for the required connectors?
    It won't really be a guess. I have not had a chance to pull my harness out to check for sure, but if they ARE Tyco/Amp connectors then there will be a part number on the housing. The Tyco/AMP website has a search feature (by part number) that can be used to determine if they are still commercially or publicly available.
    If they are not available, or the price is too unreasonable, then a substitute will have to be found.
    You are right... it can't hurt to ask.
    1973 240z (HLS30-139984), Root Beer Brown, and all mine!

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    I'm sure there is a contemporary equivalent of what the original connector is. I think the only difference is that they are using the barrel contacts now, instead of the blade contacts.

    Otherwise, a simple replacement seems to be in order. But, I think I will try to 'vinegarize' the connectors a little first.

    BTW, are you sure it's plain vinegar, or some kind of weak acetic acid solution?
    thx.


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    Last edited by TomoHawk; 12-09-2003 at 10:45 AM.

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    Originally posted by TomoHawk

    BTW, are you sure it's plain vinegar, or some kind of weak acetic acid solution?

    Household vinegar IS a "weak acetic acid solution". Check the label.

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    We made vinegar in High school chem class once. It was like 1 drop acetic acid to a gallon of water. THAT'S weak. What I was referring to as weak acetic acid would be about 20 - 50 times stronger than vinegar.

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    OK, I stand corrected.

    Vinegar is a weak ACID solution. All you want to do is CLEAN the parts, not eat them. ACETIC acid would be inappropriate in the solution (much stronger than vinegar) that you now describe.

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    No problem.

    I just though a little stronger solution would work a little faster. Vinegar seems so weak that I think it would take forever to work.

    Of course, you use any chemical with caution.

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    Hey! You're hijacking my thread!
    Just kidding... it's good information.

    Keith
    1973 240z (HLS30-139984), Root Beer Brown, and all mine!

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    Keith,

    Any progress or needs? Just wondering if I can help out. I figure I might be of SOME use, having access to Nissan and such. Let me know, thanks.

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    Originally posted by gema
    Keith,

    Any progress or needs? Just wondering if I can help out. I figure I might be of SOME use, having access to Nissan and such. Let me know, thanks.
    Gema, can you get ANY of the old connectors ? Ie, if someone wanted to keep their existing harness and replace the connectors, are they even available from Nissan? What, in the form of wiring, *IS* available?
    Mike

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    From what I've seen, if you wanted to make a wiring harness all you'd need is:

    sheet(s) of plywood for jigs
    a working harness for pattern

    You just lay the harness on the plywood, hammer (nails) in where the wires bend or end, draw lines for the direction and document the places where each wire start/stops, including pin#, color, & guage.

    I've seen it done on DIY car restoration shows and video of commercial companies. Even OEM companies do it, but use better jigs. I bet the Painless people do it too.

    You would start with just a small section to get the process figured out.

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    You just lay the harness on the plywood, hammer (nails) in where the wires bend or end, draw lines for the direction and document the places where each wire start/stops, including pin#, color, & guage.
    Jigs are definately the way to go when doing large wiring projects. Before you cut any wire you can run string (of similar thickness) to double check wire lengths and bundling. You could even build a 'mock' harness with the string and 'install' it in the car to ensure everything is ready and accurate. Much more cost efficient than having to re-re-wire the harness later. Measure twice (or three, four, five times!), cut once.

    Keith, Any progress or needs? Just wondering if I can help out. I figure I might be of SOME use, having access to Nissan and such. Let me know, thanks.
    Gema,
    I am making progress, but slowly. I'm going to pull my full harness this weekend and make my supplies list. I had hoped to have done that by now, but I've been busy with work and family. Mike's question is a good one. Using your resources can you find any information on connector availability and price? IF they are available I would assume they would be pricy.
    Last edited by ZHadMan; 12-11-2003 at 12:17 PM.
    1973 240z (HLS30-139984), Root Beer Brown, and all mine!

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    I'll whip out the microfiche and see what's up tomorrow morning. More than likely I'd have to purchase a full wiring harness (if any are available) to get the included connectors. We can hope for the best, though. On that note...looks like I'll be needing a 280zxt style engine room harness, with 240z underdash and body. Crazy swapping ideas! Watch for a reply tomorrow.

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    The situation appears to be rather tricky. It seems I can get some parts labeled as "Connector," yet on different cars, selection varies. Obviously, if I purchased a wiring harness in full (If still available from Nissan), I'd get the connectors. However, I have no way of telling if they'd be labeled with a nonexistent Nissan part number, or labeled with whomever made the connectors' names. Let me know if there's anything else I can do.

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    The only reason I've been trying to find original style connectors is in case someone wants an 'original' harness. On older cars, like ours, most of the electrical equipment was connected using simple (and easily obtainable) PIDG FASTON terminals. They are (simply) the female end of a spade terminal. There are only a few areas on the car where a nylon 'terminal block' style connector is needed, i.e headlight/taillight pigtails. A MAJORITY of these nylon pieces were used merely to join area's of the harness together. Because the car was built on an assemply line the harnesses were sectioned to allow ease of installation at various points on said line. THESE connectors may not be available anymore, but that is by no means a show-stopper. 90% of these will be hidden by interior panels, or stuffed up under the dash... so using a non-original AMP style connector is acceptable.

    Even if headlight/taillight connectors are NOT available I have devised a plan to provide 'substitute' connectors pre-wired for easy installation. All the installer will have to do is cut off the old connector and crimp on the new one. Very simple to do.

    If an individual is leary of cutting their old connectors off then I am also working on a way to use FASTON connectors and heatshrink tubing as a substitue.
    1973 240z (HLS30-139984), Root Beer Brown, and all mine!

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    *eyes widen* Oooh, you're good. Well, let me know if you need anything else, and keep us posted. Take care.

    Edit: Just creating a budget for the next few months. What do you expect a new wiring harness to cost? By which I mean full harness. Thanks again.
    Last edited by gema; 12-12-2003 at 02:56 PM.

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    Hey ZHadMan I just wanted to know if YOUR personal preference for a new harness is updating it for better performance, better lighting, less weight, simplicity, etc. etc. Or just remaking a flawed harness new? I have thought many a time on stripping any of my Z's and ripping out every bit of wire from the cabin I could find. Then using what was left from the rear(updating the connectors) rewiring everything from the bulkhead foward and using current tech to have a nice ride with all it's light working. No Car B.Q. etc. etc. I run a relay for my headlights from a toggle switch from switched power. Sure would be nice if we could do everything we needed to do from the drivers seat with out all those high amps to melt your new combo switch or fuse block. Just asking. I don't think high performance is high. I think it just works. If you could come up with something like that in a harness, then Amen!!

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    Originally posted by frank13
    I run a relay for my headlights from a toggle switch from switched power. Sure would be nice if we could do everything we needed to do from the drivers seat with out all those high amps to melt your new combo switch or fuse block.
    There are several people on the net who've added the relays while still using the standard headlight switch on the stalk. Is this what you're talking about?

    Here are the links I have bookmarked; I'm sure there are more:

    http://mywebpages.comcast.net/pparas..._Relay_pg1.htm

    http://www.zccne.addr.com/tech-docs/...ay-upgrade.pdf
    -Mike
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    Thumbs up Headlight relays.

    Hey Mike, that's pertty much what I have done. Except you mentioned going through the combo switch. I diddn't see any info on that in your attachments. But it is always nice to see what your doing instead of always having to stare at it while your trying to figure it out. I will eventually figure out how to run back at to combo switch OEM stlye without using the high current white/red feed wires, infact I whould like to run everything possible through low current/low voltage to relays. I always hated having to pull over and shut down the car while my electrical system cools off etc. etc.

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    Looking at the two diagrams, it seems like the 240 and 280 are wired differently. One says to ground the #30's. The other says that the #30's are the hot side. Are the two cars different? Am I reading these wrong? I'm so confused....

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    Default Relays

    zzstom I tried to respond to your question earlier with a nice little article I wrote just about relays but this damn F$^&#$G sight just keep sighning me out. so when I went to submit my response I had to log back in and lost what I had written for you. Sorry. Still love the sight though. The #30 terminal is the direct feed from B+ to power the headlights through the contacts inside when the coil circuit is complete.

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    I keep thinking...

    Is there some reason you can't use just one relay for the lights? Why not a SPDT relay? Cuts the # of connections in half.

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    Default relay(s)

    I do Only use one to start out with. But it's better to have the two, each one power only one headlight. This way you can use a five prong relay to power low/high beams and still have higher voltage at the bulbs. Not at the switch. The whole purpose of this is to keep the high current out of the frail electrics of the 30+ year old Z's.

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    Originally posted by TomoHawk
    Is there some reason you can't use just one relay for the lights? Why not a SPDT relay? Cuts the # of connections in half.
    Security. Two relays, two circuts, one for the low beam, one for the high. Blow one and you still get home.
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    Those relays are so cheap and easy to replace, I would just put a spare in the box with the fuses. I think it's also possible to set up your system so there is a failsafe switch or a shunt you can use to get yourself home.

    That's assuming you don't make things with a single relay as complicated as with two.

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    Those relays are so cheap and easy to replace, I would just put a spare in the box with the fuses. I think it's also possible to set up your system so there is a failsafe switch or a shunt you can use to get yourself home.

    That's assuming you don't make things with a single relay as complicated as with two.

    BTW, you'd need a SPDT relay with "center off." Is there such a thing? forgot to say that before.

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    Originally posted by frank13
    Hey ZHadMan I just wanted to know if YOUR personal preference for a new harness is updating it for better performance, better lighting, less weight, simplicity, etc. etc. Or just remaking a flawed harness new?
    Surprisingly I have had many requests for wire to wire replacements. I would definately like to produce a product that improves upon and works better than the original. I have been paying close attention to threads/write-ups/advice on how to improve the electrical system of the Z and I would like to work some of those improvements into my harness. What, reasonably, would people like to see changed, from stock, on the wiring harnesses?
    1973 240z (HLS30-139984), Root Beer Brown, and all mine!

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    I think that the original wiring system could be improved, but not by much. I have been looking for the grounding locations, but it seems that the only ground ( on my Miotchell's wiring diagram) is at or near the alternator. I believe this is why the wires all (corroded). No place for the oxidation charges to go to, easily.
    One the same note, the way the wiring goes from front to back, like for turn signals & parking lamps, makes debugging easier.

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    The only ground is near the alternator, you say?

    I need to check "all the grounds" on my Z, according to my mechanics. My electrical system seems possessed. After changing my bulbs in the taillight assemblies, the taillights no longer come on when I switch the headlamps on, but now the brake lights work, but when I press the brake pedal, the right reverse lamp comes on...etc. etc. That and interior lights that didn't work on Monday suddenly work on Tuesday. The wiring harness on my car is admittedly butchered, but appears as if it *should* function properly. Any suggestions? If there's only one ground, then hey...my "day-long project" was just drastically shortened in duration!

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    Wink Simple harness

    Hey ZHadMan, I just want a harness that IS NOT OEM!!! One that works. I don't care that it worked when new. I care that it works now. The OEM has short comings peroid. We should not have to put up with them with the kind of tech we have at our disposal. I want a clean ass harness with good juice and great grounds. When that branches off directly to where it has to and no where else. One that doesn't power the radio from a gauge. Simple, lightwieght, dependable, and easy to work with. As well as up to date connectors, e.g. GM weatherpak, Duesch( I don't remeber how to spell that). I could have already replaced the oem connectors with new ones, but why. The problems inherent to this electrical system will just melt them as well. A harness that works in a different way to do the things we need it to do is what I want. And little by little I will finds good ways to bypass or impove what hasn't already burnt up. But I always figured a simple harness with half as much wiring would cost less than a "Painless". More so if it was a Z lover just doing what he/she could instead of a big company just ripping you off. I don't know. I hate my Z

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    there should be a ground connection for each section; frontlights, engine, dash, interior, rear lights. One of my next things for my car is to add these.

    gema-

    I looked through my wiring Diagram ( pretty sure it's from Mitchels, got it in 1992, so I think it's correct) and everything electrical I've worked on so far is on there . And, on it, there is a BLACK wire going from the front to the back, with a spur for the engine & dash. Every ground wire from the gauges, lamps, etc. connects to it. After tracing for about an hour, I only found one (ring terminal symbol) between the starter symbol and the relays. This might not mean anything, but things on my wiring diagram are pretty much the same place on the car, front to back, left & right.

    Concerning your delemma, I suggest a test lamp, maybe a buzzer (radio Shack, 12V) and confirm the wires under the dash (brake light) first, then in the back. I did this when I spliced in a new lamp socket for the brake, to confirm wires were correctly marked and things worked as expected.

    Good luck if you chose to take on this mission. Secretary will disavow having any knowledge. This mess will self destruct...
    Last edited by TomoHawk; 12-22-2003 at 11:56 AM.

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    Default count me in

    I am glad you are so exited about this zhadman, because after trying to diagnose some of my cars electrical problems I wanted to rip ALL the wires out...

    I would most definantly buy a wiring harness that was fit for the z. I was knocked on my ass by msa's price for their blade fuse box, that is rediculous. I dont know much about wiring but heres the weather inside my brainstorm.

    Someone said something about many people wanting different things depending on originality of the car, and other such factors. It seems simple (although probably is not). You can have one fuse block with everything most cars would need, and then just sell the Pieces of the harness. Like everyone would need the engine, and lights, etc. but you could then just sell airconditioning and heating harnesses, that would plug into the rest of the base harness. A separate piece for eletronic ignition.... Anyway like I said I dont know much about wiring, and this is probably just wishful thinking, but maybe it could work?

    Anyway I am behind you all the way on the harness, I am just glad There may be hope for the birdnest in my car. I also will enjoy tearing that son of a ***** out...

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    I am looking seriously at the Painless 12-circuit 'pro' harness for my race car. Sounds pretty ...um...painless. I'm guessing it comes with everything but switches and possibly end connectors. For $289, sounds pretty hard to beat. I really only need the 8-circuit, but this car IS current on its registration, and if anyone ever wanted turn signals and such, it would be easy... not really looking forward to this part of the project. I have NO CLUE what I am doing.

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    Originally posted by Zvoiture
    I am looking seriously at the Painless 12-circuit 'pro' harness for my race car. Sounds pretty ...um...painless. .............. not really looking forward to this part of the project. I have NO CLUE what I am doing. steve
    That is not a good sign, might want to pick up TWO kits, just in case the first one goes up in smoke!

    just kidding, I understand the feeling as I am not electrically skilled.

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    I don't think the painless kits would work well in a Z car. It has fuel injection, & electronic ignition, how do you wire that stuff in? You'd have to get new wiring harnesses for those, which there aren't. Then you'd have to figure out where to splice it in.
    Not so painless now, huh? Unless you want to use an engine from a new chevy. The Painless stuff just doesn't work on the original Z.

    Zhadman--

    I went o the library the other day, and the Mitchell's book for 1978 imports had the complete wiring diagram. The only thing about that was I couldn't get it to lay flat enough to get a really good copy.

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    I think the painless wiring is a good choice if your existing wiring is a mess. True...you will have to keep the Z specific wiring and figure out how to incorporate it but that should not be too difficult if you take the time and study the wiring schematic. I used a painless wiring harness in my Camaro and I love it. It will definitely make things work when they are suppose to! Best of luck

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    Thumbs down Original FI Z???

    The ORIGINAL DATSUN 240Z was not fuel injected nor did they have electronic ignition. Jeez! Not everybody drives 280's. I thought this site was more for the 240Z. If you had a 240 before, then went and bought something that came after I guess that's cool. But when always making refrences to the 280Z/ZX models when talking about the 240 model, IMO I think it throws the thread off into a little chaos. Did you even read the thread from the start???
    [B[I]]"Remember. Wherever you go, there you are."[/[/I]B]

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    Originally posted by ROOPZ
    I think the painless wiring is a good choice if your existing wiring is a mess... I used a painless wiring harness in my Camaro and I love it.
    You sound like an AD for Painless! lol Seriously, I doubt the painless system will work in a Z unless you do a LOT of custom stuff because of the Wiper switch, light switch, hazards, etc. I've studied the wiring for over a year now, and it makes sense from the Datsun point of view, and the only new wiring I would put in there is to replace ONLY certain current-carrying wires wit the exact same colors and gauges as the original.

    TIMO, he painless stuff will only work
    for new installations on newer, American cars.

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    I (IMHO) feel that TomoHawk is correct. I looked into the Painless system before I even entertained the idea of creating new harnesses. While I feel their system is comprehensive, I do not feel it is completely... ahem... painless. It would require modification in order to integrate effectively with the Z car's electrical components. I am not going to put down, nor degrade, thier product any because many individuals, with the time and tools, have successfully used them in thier cars.
    That being said... MY harness will also require some modifications to install. I am merely attempting to minimize the amount of work, time, and tools it takes to do so. Naturally, my opinion is a bit biased ().

    Cheers,
    Keith H
    1973 240z (HLS30-139984), Root Beer Brown, and all mine!

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    What you guys are forgetting is that the painless wiring will NOT replace all of your existing wiring. It mainly replaces the power to the sub-systems or accesories. The wiring for the wiper switch is retained but the power from the fuse box to the wiper motor is replaced by painless. There are lots of sub harnesses that you would not have to re-build unless they are screwed up. I forunately do not need a new harness but I sure as heck would go painless before I spent thousands on a nissan harness...unless of course I was restoring a one of a kind car. To each their own I guess!

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    You are correct, the sub-harnesses will still be in-place. These pigtails (wiper motor, headlights, taillights...etc) cannot be easily replaced with new... unless you can open them up and re-solder pieces in their stead. The Painless system will NOT replace them. You will, however, need to integrate the two. The stock connectors will not be able to be retained unless you splice into the existing (30+ y/o) wiring or find new terminals. Many of these old connectors are brittle or, in some cases, melted.... and therefore unusable. Substitute connectors would have to be used.

    There is nothing WRONG with the Painless harness... it's just GENERIC and therefore not tailored to the Z car. There are not many wiring options available to the Z owner. Nissan does not have 'new' harnesses and a Painless, or custom, setup is all there is. Hence the purpose of this thread. A specific, easy to install, 240Z wiring harness... that does not cost thousands of dollars.

    K
    1973 240z (HLS30-139984), Root Beer Brown, and all mine!

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    1978 280Z (stock) TomoHawk's Avatar
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    Originally posted by ROOPZ
    .... The wiring for the wiper switch is retained but the power from the fuse box to the wiper motor is replaced by painless.
    I believe what roopZ said was incorrect.
    This is the big issue I have about the painless stuff. The power for the wiper motor AND pump (on the 280Z) goes through the 'wiper moter amplifier' which looks like a relay, and probably contains the electronics for the low/high speeds, so you don't just go from the battery to the wiper motor, although that's what I'd like to try.

    I believe that there is a direct feed from the fusebox to the wiper motor amp, tho, which is what roopZ suggests, and another wire from the switch to change functions.

    BTW, I think the 'wiper motor amplifier' might be all or part of the reason that the wipers are so slow (on the 280Z).
    Last edited by TomoHawk; 01-06-2004 at 12:35 PM.

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    Thanks for al the helpful conversation, but, again, perhaps I should have started a different thread, as I think we are having two different conversations. I am preparing to wire a RACE CAR. There is no stalk controls, no key, only switches in a fabricated dash. Painless claims (although I have never held one in my hands) to have all the wiring and relays and fuse panels for what I need to power necessary controls. I am not looking to replicate any existing wiring--the car has none. The only tie-in to existing Z items that I forsee is the tailights and headlights (if I decide to install them--the headlights, that is). So I BELIEVE the Painless 8 or 12 circuit GENERIC RACE CAR HARNESS (Summit PRF-50001 or 2) will be adequate. All I need is:

    Engine power/ignition (switch & starter button)
    Brakes
    Electric fuel pump (or two)
    Gauges (Tach is fed by ignition control box but I assume it has a power lead, H2o temp is mechanical, Oil pressure and temp is mechanical, brake bias is mechanical, perhaps a speedo, voltage, ...um...what am I forgetting?)
    Electric fan
    Am I forgetting something?

    I am assuming I can figure out how to wire in the MSD/HI-6 and
    I don't know what the allowances are in this kit are for battery/starter/power supply--but relocating the battery to the rear deck will require modification/tie-in somewhere (and a shut-off cock)anyway.

    Then there is just a bunch of optional street-legal stuff that all are provided circuits for in the Painless unit:
    Headlights
    Tailights
    Wipers
    Horn
    Dome(no)
    Emergency flashers(no)
    Electric water pump
    Trans brake (no)
    Radio (no)

    See? Painless!!! NOT! The thing is, I am a licensed electrician, but automotive is Greek to me. Someone who knows how to do this need their house wired?

    steve
    "Auto racing, bull fighting, and mountain climbing are the only real sports ... all others are games." -EH
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    1978 280Z (stock) TomoHawk's Avatar
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    You should include a 20,000 watt radio. Instead, pint the kicker tube out the back so you'll get an extra 5 mph!

    No problem with the relocated battery. Just mount that where you want it and run a 1 gauge stranded wire to the battery connection on the painless part.

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    Default EVERYONE>>JUST CALM DOWN!!!

    Geez! I didnt realize I would have my intentions or intellect attacked here! All I am saying is the harness will work for what it is and it is not painless but it is not difficult either. I had never wired a car and I dont care much for wiring but it was pretty damned easy for me.
    OK...back to your regularly scheduled argument...

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    Dude,

    YOu happened to hit a very good reason why I don't like the painless wiring stuff. No problem with you. We need as many different points of view to develop the bestest conclusions.

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    Geez! I didnt realize I would have my intentions or intellect attacked here!
    Whoa there! I don't think anyone was trying to attack your intentions or intellect. I apologize if I came across that way. I was more trying to point out why I have chosen not to go with Painless, not berate you for your standpoint. Once again, no harm, nor ill will, intended.

    Keith H
    1973 240z (HLS30-139984), Root Beer Brown, and all mine!

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    Keith:

    I've been lurking on this thread since the beginning. Haven't bothered to post much in it, but I'm interested.

    I'm wondering what harness(es) you are interested in developing? 240Z (any particular year?), 260Z, 280Z? The harnesses and connectors are very different between all of these. My understanding at the beginning was that it for 240Z, but the discussion now seems directed to 280Z and Fuel Injection issues.

    If a response isn't deemed appropriate to the thread, you're welcome to PM me.

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    BambiKiller,
    My intent was, and still is, to offer a product for each year of the 240Z. Complexity of the FI harnesses, coupled with limited availability of required components, forces me to concentrate on carb'd vehicles. Many people, however, run the L28 with carbs and I can, where neccessary, adapt a harness to suit. I am in the Research and Development phase right now, trying to sort out all the differences between the various model years.

    Perhaps, at some later date, when things are up and running I can work on an FI solution. I just don't have the time or resources to do so now.

    I encourage people to post or PM me any questions they may have about what I plan to offer.

    Thanks!

    Keith H
    1973 240z (HLS30-139984), Root Beer Brown, and all mine!

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    Race car wiring is a piece of cake. I did mine in a day. After gutting the car it was easier to rip out all the old wiring and rewire it than try and figure all the old stuff out and splice it. Plus the old stuff under the hood was was nasty .....

    My setup isn't fancy. Just cheap, simple and reliable.

    Starter switch
    Ignition switch,
    Electric fan switch
    alternator switch
    fuel pump switch
    voltmeter switch

    all wired through a $5 6 circuit fuse block.

    Bought a few rolls of wire and some spade connectors at the electronics store. Some 8 gauge for the starter to the fuse box run, some thinner stuff for the runs from the fuse box to the coil, etc, fuse box to switches, ground runs. A good 50 amp or so circuit breaker and a relay for the electric fans is a good idea. Then just fuse the circuit that energizes the relay ....

    Get you one of those automatic wire strippers at home depot for $12 (doesn't need to be the best one they have), they are worth it. Get a good 45 watt Weller soldering iron and stand and some good rosin core solder, an assortment of long shrink tubing that you can cut to size and some of that slit convoluted tubing for putting the wires in to protect them from chafing, a metal/rubber few wire holders that you can screw down and fasten your harness to the body in strategic areas and a handful of nylon wire ties to neaten things up. A heat gun is best for shinking the heat shink tubing.

    Couldn't find any cheap, long battery cables for relocating the battery so I bought a good set of fine stranded jumper cables and used that wire for the battery to starter run and battery to ground run.


    I had rewired a some other cars before and have always been real handy with a soldering iron, but it really isn't to hard. Total cost was maybe $120, not including all new gauges.


    I'm still using the old alternator/external voltage regulator so figuring out the wiring for that was probably the most difficult part. I tried following the schematic to duplicate that wiring, but it didn't work, so I just unwrapped the old harness and copied the connections that way.
    --John B
    '73 FP 240Z

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    Default '72 240Z

    I'm interested in a '72. Let me know the details when you are done. Thanks for the work.

    Ken

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    Any updates on the status of these? Can't wait!!! =D

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    Well, here's an update on my headlight harness manufacturing ambition - - - - - - F! Bloody F!

    A box with $300 in terminals, housings and relay bases were in my car, when it was stolen! needless to say, The box wasn't there (along with everything else) when I picked her up at the police impound!

    Well, I don't know if I have the heart to buy all that stuff again!
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    Sorry, I haven't been on too much lately. I have been extremely busy with work and have had a few financial (and time) setbacks. I'm still gung ho, though... and progressing... slowly. This is a pretty big job and I don't want to rush it too much. Stay tuned though, I should have a bit more free time (in the upcoming months) to dedicate to this endeavor
    1973 240z (HLS30-139984), Root Beer Brown, and all mine!

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    I am also collecting parts to rewire/update portions of my 240Z electrical system. Fuse box, Headlight circuit, LED side-markers and tail lights, instrument lights, Radio, etc...
    I am using a blade type fuse box and circuit breakers from Waytekwire. The box is similar in size, shape, and # of circuits to the original and runs about $30. Check it out at:
    http://order.waytekwire.com/IMAGES/M37/catalog/216_63
    I will also be using weatherpack connectors for the engine compartment-updating to a GM Managed L28ET All new engine harness needless to say!
    A Z is beautiful from any angle, I just happen to prefer to view from the drivers' seat!

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    For my soon to be started 240Z Restoration, I chose the lead plated-solid brass solder-in (Use a torch-a soldering iron can't touch this) battery terminals found here:
    http://order.waytekwire.com/IMAGES/M37/catalog/216_36

    with the color coded stainless steel battery bolts found here:
    http://order.waytekwire.com/IMAGES/M37/catalog/216_37

    with the wire from West Marine-it is less prone to corrosion because the entire length of each strand is tinned. Waytek has great wire at a great price, but it is not tinned. I want to do this once. I will also wire in a high amperage relay to keep the under hood amperage too low to start the car unless a hidden switch is triggered(It only takes OSG with a quarter and the knowledge to use it to take our cars)

    I also am using a battery picked to fit a Volvo S80, the terminal locations are correct as is the size, and the battery has a vent fitting built in-run a piece of tubing out the bottom of the car, no fumes or fluid on the sheet metal to cause cancer.
    A Z is beautiful from any angle, I just happen to prefer to view from the drivers' seat!

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    the tinned wire sounds like a good idea from the corrosion point of view, but if you need a wire for current, you should use a plain stranded copper wire. As you know, the electrons in the wire move along the surface, so the tin would decrease the current capacity.

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    Yes, I believe you are correct, the tin will lower the current capacity, but I seriously doubt that, short of using a vey sensitive meter to prove your point, I would ever see a difference between 2 gage tinned and 2 gage in the operation of the gear reduction starter.
    A Z is beautiful from any angle, I just happen to prefer to view from the drivers' seat!

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    I usually use 3mm, 1000- strand wires on my radio boat batteries. In that situation, you can see a difference to the ordinary 60-strand wires. The wires are cool to the touch, meaning less resistance.

    Pure copper, of course.

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    I would not use that kind (a 2 gage wire with 60 strands)of wire-it is household wiring, All of what I would buy would be type 3 or better(1040 strands or more)-now I understand your thoughts, and hope this makes this situation clear:
    Even the best wire will get hot if it has a bad connection due to corosion, but a clean, well connected 2 gage wire made up of 1,040 tin plated strands should have absolutely no trouble carying the Starter current for a Z (less than 60 amps) for 5 feet without heating up noticeably.
    A Z is beautiful from any angle, I just happen to prefer to view from the drivers' seat!

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    This post is just to get the two threads together to lower confusion.
    A Z is beautiful from any angle, I just happen to prefer to view from the drivers' seat!

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    zhadman,

    I will say I must agree with mike, Kitkos, and others... I think with a good clean product, a wiring harness for the ealry Z's, would probubly put you on the map!!

    No other company to my knowledge has this (unless custom made)..

    Giving much thought into this would be pretty exciting... It would be ideal to make a harness that can be used "generally" throughout the early Z's. (Excluding the F.I. of course).. general car harness!! lights, accessories...

    Another idea for you!!!!..........FUSE PANEL REPLACEMENTS FOR ALL YEARS!
    Besides the 240Z, there aren't to my knowledge, any replacement fuse panels ( ready to wire) other than custom for the 280Z's.
    I know I, and many others in my area would be interested in all these ideas.

    Brian K.
    aka: aZcarbum

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    This project is definately do-able. It just takes quite a bit of time to determine commonality/differences between years and will require even more time to map out a plan of action for production (fixturing, jigs, wire lengths...etc.).

    I just don't have much free time anymore. I barely have time for my GF, let alone my car (I can't sleep WITH my car! )

    I also dropped my plans for the L24 and am installing an SR20 instead. I will keep my OE harness intact, but re-producing it has become a secondary priority.

    Another big concern is liability. If I produce a wiring harness for Mr. X and Mr. X installs it incorrectly and his car burns to the ground with him trapped inside I could be held liable. Gruesome, yes. Probable, No. But there is always that chance and I'm not quite prepared to deal with that issue yet. In the future I will likely set myself up an LLC before I start selling anything.

    This subject is still on my mind and I come up with new ideas all the time. I just gotta get some things sorted out first.
    1973 240z (HLS30-139984), Root Beer Brown, and all mine!

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    ok.................Great concept .... I did not read all the previous post but here goes.
    I will make it simple.



    I need a 100% complete wiring harnes for a 72 240z.

    Taillights to headlights (including attenna)



    The only question I have is................................................

    How long and do you have a Paypal account?

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    Said it before and I'll say it again...anything I can do to help, let me know. I plan on redoing all the wiring in my Z if/when I do a turbo swap, and I imagine with one huge sheet of plywood and a lot of time on the wiring diagram it could be done. I don't know where to source connectors, but I'm sure some here do. This, for me, however, is a project that has to lie dormant for a decent while. I have the time/energy, but I'd much rather kill rust first.
    '72 in perpetual progress.

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    Jeff-

    It's going to take more than a Papypal account can handle, IF it can be done at all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff1216
    I will make it simple.

    I need a 100% complete wiring harnes for a 72 240z.

    Taillights to headlights (including attenna)
    If you are in need of a complete wiring harness for your 240Z, your best bet currently is to contact one of the Z Specialist Salvage yards for what you need.

    Z Specialites in Snohomish, Wa.

    Danny's Datsuns in Roseburg, OR

    Z Parts in Richmond, CA

    CyberSanford in Michigan

    Z Car Source of AZ in Phoenix, AZ

    Z Barn in Maryville, TN
    Last edited by Bambikiller240; 09-30-2004 at 09:13 AM.

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    Carl,
    Thanks for the list, I had a few of the entries, but not all! Maybe that elusive auto tranny shifter plate will turn up form one of them-I have a line on one, but I need two.

    Will
    A Z is beautiful from any angle, I just happen to prefer to view from the drivers' seat!

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    Will i have a auto tranny shifter plate. (i think) Pm me if your interestead
    HLS30-217804 6/75 "The Unnatural One"

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