Fog Lamps

[widget777]

I am thinking of putting driving/fog lamps on my 78 280Z that has stock front bumpers and body panels. I am open to the type of fog lamp but have been looking at the hella rectangular lamps in Black Dragon's catalog. I have 2 questions:
1) where should I mount them to keep them out of harm's way?
2) What lamps would you recommend if not the Hellas?

[ZIII]

There’s a difference between fog and driving lights…. Fog lights should be mounted as close to the ground as you can get. I hang mine down from the bumper and if I could get them lower I would. If you have a front spoiler, or you are thinking of getting one, you might want to consider putting them in there as some spoilers have slots for lights and these are usually well spaced apart which is good. For fog, low is best. Driving lights, on the other hand, are usually mounted higher, either above the bumper or inside the grill.

I lived in Belgium for seven years and fog is an almost daily occurrence in the country. As a matter of fact, EU law mandates that you have a proper rear fog light (red) as well as a First Aid kit, fire extinguisher and safety triangle. I went through Bosch lights (pretty mediocre) Cibie (better) and Hellas (pretty good at the top of their line). It wasn’t until I rode in a friend’s car one night when I realized what fog lights could do. His lights were PIAA. Next day I went out and bought a set and let me tell you they are absolutely fabulous. I put them on all my cars. The others pale in comparison and capabilities. Besides the obvious benefits of light projection, the PIAA’s come with a more substantial relay and wiring set-up. They are not dinky 18 gauge wires etc…commonly found on most other light sets. It is just a quality product. The one drawback is that they are a bit pricy but they are, IMO, the best and well worth the extra money.

I now have a set of PIAA driving lights (I now live in El Paso and there’s no fog here) that I placed in the same holes as the fogs underneath the bumper. Not the ideal place, but I wasn’t going to put any more holes in my bumpers. The PIAA driving lights are also phenomenal!!! So, I would recommend that you do some research. Some folks will jump in here and they will have their recommendations but do give PIAA a look and consider them. You will not regret it.

[widget777]

Gearge,
Thanks for the input. You sound like an expert. I will investigate teh PIAAs
Regards
Widget

[widget777]

George,
Do you pics of teh front end?

[26th-Z]

I have these - $100 - PM me.

[hls30.com]

Warren,
I'd jump all over those if I were you!
Will

[26th-Z]

I was (and still am) looking for these when I bought the ones I would sell. Chloe (remember her?) e-mailed me with a zcar.com ad and I bought them sight unseen. I think they are for the 280Z as a Datsun option. They are in pretty good shape but I do not know if the bulbs work. Metal and plastic housings. Glass lens. Plastic slip-on caps. I recall one of the caps has a scratch.

[70z4fun]

Does anyone have a good picture of the stock lights that are listed in my factory wiring diagram and is switched at the choke plate area. I can't say I have ever seen how this was done. I believe/ or led to believe this was a option on the overseas cars.

Thanks,
Bob

[hls30.com]

I think the lights that switch there are actually running lights that are individually switched(L or R side) for safety in pulling off the road, several threads have discussed this, and the fog light switch was actually on the dash in what lookes like a conventional cigarette lighter position. I'll try to find a thread and post it for you.
Will

[hls30.com]

Bob, here you go... there are more...
http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/s...ght=jdm+switch
Will

[70z4fun]

Thanks for the link, that clears it up. So, the early cars never had any kind of front driving light?

Enjoy the ride,
Bob

[Arne]

Hi, Bob. Nice to see yet another Oregonian here!

The early cars in other parts of the world could have fog lights as an option, but they were never offered on 240Zs here in the states. Escanlon (in Vancouver, WA) has one of the factory fog light switches, I believe. It went in the empty hole above the hazard switch on the early dashes.

[hls30.com]

26thZ pictured them earlier in his second post-they were available through Datsun Compettion parts.
Will

[kats]

Hello,

The fog lamp is very rare here in Japan.We acturely could buy them as an option listed in the brochure.

Mr.Matsuo gave me only one fog lamp which he managed to find from his old stock yards.Remember Mr.Matsuo owned a 1971 Fairlady-Z(type Z,standard) and he bought hubcaps,fog lamps and some other stuff.He wanted to buy Z as soon as posssible when he had done Z's designe because he really proud and loved his job for S30 series.But at that time Nissan had to ignore emproyee's parchase,due to huge waiting lists all over the world.

We can not see the part number of the fog lamp in the NOV 1969 U.S. & CANADA catalog.But we can see them in the 1969 R-DRIVE S30 parts catalog.

Chris,you put the picture of yellow classic fog lamps they are 26150/26155-E4100 I think that picture came from a Yahoo Japan auction some years ago?Because I too was watching them for bidding.But I failed,my friend won for them.I also have saved that image in my computer when I was watching.

I put pictures of my only one fog lamp from Mr.Matsuo and a fog lamp switch of Jan 1970 Z432(PS30-00088) now restoration in progress.This switch's picture was taken by mobile phone camera so it is not good.

I need one more fog lamp.

kats

[70z4fun]

Kats,

Thanks for the information. Can you let me know roughly what size those factory fog lights are? Also, where did they mount? I assume to the bumper.

Your web site is a wealth of great information.

Thanks so much for sharing. Love the blue car. My first experience was with a blue care with the white racing stripe. When I went to buy my early z, I just missed out on a blue car and ended up with a silver one on my way home.....

Thanks,
Bob

[26th-Z]

As usual, Kats, you make me jealous.

[hls30.com]

Thanks Kats, I had researched the threads looking for exactly the pictures you just posted-a front and rear shot!
Can you tell what manufacturere made them?
Thanks!
Will

[ZIII]

Warren,

Thank you for the compliment. I can assure you that I am not an expert on fog lights. I am, however, the beneficiary of my own experience. If you live in a geographical area that really requires fog lights then you should get a proper set. While in Belgium, I went through a successive series of lights with water getting in the housing, lenses getting fogged over, rust developing in the reflectors and little light cutting thru fog. Like many other folks, my motto was how little can I pay to get an acceptable outcome. Wrong thought process. But it seems like I always have to re-learn this lesson.

Most folks are not confronted with such adverse weather conditions and put lights out in front because they look cool or make the car go faster. In Europe you can get a ticket for running your fog lights when there’s no fog. Imagine that here? Anyway, I digress. Fact is PIAA are great lights and well worth your consideration. Jump on corvette forum and do a search and you shall find many more praises for such lights in both fog and driving format. My vette lights set me back $240 but on many a night driving through the Belgium countryside I would have happily paid double and would have been thankful for it.

On another note, there is really no such thing as a driving/fog light. It is one or the other. There are some sets made that are both but they have two housings/reflectors and two different bulbs.

Attached are my current PIAA driving lights… as I mentioned, they are not mounted in the ideal spot but have replaced my fogs which were mounted on the underside of the bumper. Also, I have included a pic of the relay, which is in white. The two black relays on the left of the PIAA are from Dave’s headlight wiring harness.

[widget777]

26th Z<
what are the dimensions of teh light sets? I presume that you are selling both sets. If so , how much for the fog lamps. I am concerned that I will not be able to get replacement bulbs for the lights. Do you know what bulbs they use and the wattage?

[widget777]

George,
What model PIAA are they?

[ZIII]

Warren,

The driving lights on the Z are PIAA 60 XT series, model 6252.

George

[26th-Z]

I need to go out to the shop and get the lamps. I'll measure them and post some answers. I have two lamps = one set. I believe they were 280Z vintage Datsun options and I don't know if they are fog or driving lamps. They come with the Datsun covers.

Yes, fog lamps are made for a different lighting pattern than driving lamps. Driving lamps illuminate distance and cannot pierce the fog. Fog lamps illuminate the ground in front of the car and although they do not pierce the fog either, they are great for a wide range of illumination directly in front of the car.

[Arne]

I believe they were 280Z vintage Datsun options and I don't know if they are fog or driving lamps.

Chris, the ones you pictured are fogs, not driving. The heavily fluted lenses widen out the beam. Driving light lenses are very mildly patterned, if at all.

Yours look like Datsun-badged Bosch lights to me.

[kats]

Hi,

The OEM fog was manufactured by KOITO,it is about 5.7 X 3.1 inch.
I attached a picture of installing the fog illustrated in the service bulletin Nov 1969.

kats

[26th-Z]

Thanks for the picture!

[hls30.com]

Yes, Thanks for the scan, te measurements, and the manufacturer confirmation!
Will

[geezer]

Great information Kats! Can you confirm something for us? In the Nov 1969 Service Bulletin the mounting brackets are pictured. Is that a continuous rubber strip bonded to the bracket acting as vibration isolators?

[kats]

Hi,
geezer,I am not for sure about bracket,I have never seen it in my hand.But hopefuly I can tell you soon,the original fog lamp set with bracket is coming to my home.I will post its pictures.

I post two pictures of the fog lamp which is never seen in the U.S. & CANADA catalog.
The first one is a DEC 1970 RHD DATSUN SPORTS 240Z catalog.The second one is a late 1972 Fairlady-Z catalog.

kats

[geezer]

Thank you Kats for taking the time to post these pictures. Looking forward to seeing pictures of the fog lamp set with brackets.

[Kerrigan]

This is an old thread but I'd like to ask about the wires on the fog lights. The harness has two wires for each light, as shown in the diagram. The replica fog lights being made now have one wire, just the "hot lead".

When installing a replica set, what does one do for the common/ground? Should the "ground wire" in the harness be fastened to the fog light bolt or ?

Thank you.

[grannyknot]

I don't know the replica fog light kit you speak of but if it only has a hot wire then its mounting bolt is its ground. Attach the harness hot wire to the light and leave the grnd wire hanging, just be sure the mounting bolt is well grounded.

[TomoHawk]

When I mounted my driving lamps, I was able to use the bumper as the earth leg. I checked for a good connection from the bumper to the chassis first. I put an eyelet connector on the ground wire and that went on the attachment bolt under the nut. the 'hot' wire was carefully routed to the cigarette lighter inside (which is temporary until I get a relay setup installed.)

[mjr45]

When I put the "El Cheapo" driving lights on my Z, I did as suggested by TomoHawk put a relay into the driving light circuit to put less stress on the overall circuitry of the car.

[TomoHawk]

Where did you get the power feed for the relay? Not from the wiring, I hope. I mounted a terminal post on the side near the starter, then a heavy wire to the battery feed to the starter. You can get many feeds off the post then.

[Kerrigan]

Does the original Z wiring which contains the leads for the fog lights come from the dash switch? I have the toggle, with long handle, above the hazard light switch. I like the long toggle for flipping the lights on or off with hand on the wheel.

[mjr45]

Tomo, I attached the power feed directly to the battery, was that a bad thing to do?

[SteveJ]

Not as long as you have an alternator that will keep up.

[TomoHawk]

That's the way you should do it, basically, just not by splicing into the car's old cruddy wires. I suppose if you use the factory wiring (on a240Z for example) to power lamps the way it was done at the factory, then it ought to work fine. IMO, new wiring should be added to the car in a way to protect the integrity of the factory wiring, while looking like factory wiring.

Maybe you should dirty up the new wires to make them look like all the rest?

As I mentioned, I took a wire from the starter battery post to a terminal I mounted in the fender, then I run wires to wherever I need power.

Like Steve says, the alternator is what really powers things. the battery is just there for power storage between the times the engine is running (to restart the engine.)

[Kerrigan]

I'm thinking the battery is the primary power source; the alternator attempts to keep the battery fully charged, but all the power actually flows from the battery.

That's the way you should do it, basically, just not by splicing into the car's old cruddy wires. I suppose if you use the factory wiring (on a240Z for example) to power lamps the way it was done at the factory, then it ought to work fine. IMO, new wiring should be added to the car in a way to protect the integrity of the factory wiring, while looking like factory wiring.

Maybe you should dirty up the new wires to make them look like all the rest?

As I mentioned, I took a wire from the starter battery post to a terminal I mounted in the fender, then I run wires to wherever I need power.

Like Steve says, the alternator is what really powers things. the battery is just there for power storage between the times the engine is running (to restart the engine.)

[SteveJ]

I'm thinking the battery is the primary power source; the alternator attempts to keep the battery fully charged, but all the power actually flows from the battery.

Think of the battery as a water tower. The water pressure is a function of the height of the water in the tower (This translates to your voltage or potential.). As water flows out of the tower, you have to pump more water into the tower (This is your alternator.). If the pipes are too small from the pump (wiring) or if the pump is undersized, you will have problems.

The argument of whether the alternator or battery is supplying the power is not really relevant. What matters is sizing the components (battery, alternator, wiring, switches, and fuses) for the demands of the system.

[rocketdog]

I put Cibie Series 95 driving lights above the bumper way back in the late 70's when I lived in the boonies of Wyoming. They are halogen.....fairly new lights back then... so I could see the "prairie goats" (antelope). They are wired with a relay direct to the + of the battery but with the switch tied into the high beam switch so they'd only have power if the high beams are on. I put a rocker switch into the dash heater duct trim so they can be on or off with the high beams. The front bumper is the ground so there's only the hot wire to them. The plastic covers got weather-beaten so I've "bondo'd" and patched them and repainted because I cannot find replacements and the car is also a show car now. Everything still works.

[TomoHawk]

Is it OK to wire driving lamps to always turn on with the high beams? I know some people have an extra switch to disable fog or driving lamps, but driving lamps should only go on with the high beams, and it would simplify the wiring.