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Thread: L24 L26 L28 Dyno results

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    Datsaholic Mr Camouflage's Avatar
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    Default L24 L26 L28 Dyno results

    Inspired by another thread asking about power output, Lets get this thread going as a reference to anyone asking the question "How much power can I get from my L series engine".

    Rules.
    Rule Number 1. If you have had your car on a Dyno post your power output here, Attach a image of the dyno result.

    Rule Number 2. List what series engine you have and any modification you have done to the engine ( eg L28 , .40 overbore, type of cam (durations ), induction, compression, exhaust) as much info as possible.

    Rule Number 3. Nissan L series 6 cylinders only.

    Rule Number 4. Dont post if you dont have a dyno reading and an image of the reading to attach. We want this to be factual readings. And dont post to say this is a dumb idea, or this is a good idea, or whatever. The only following posts should be dyno readings.

    So if you have had your Z car on a dyno, show us your results.
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    Take the cop in 3rd! Deus Ex's Avatar
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    L28 (F54) bored to 2.9
    200B Flatop Pistons
    balanced and blueprinted internals
    Linished Crank
    ported and polised P90
    matchported to manifold
    Triple weber 45 with 32mm Venturis
    Lightened Flywheel
    MSD 6a
    FJ gearbox
    8.75:1 cr
    .318/.318 Cam (ex .012, opens@66 closes@26)
    (in .010, opens@26 closes@66)

    runs 110Kw @ wheels, 160 old school bHP

    Hope this helps, im always on the lookout for these sorts of posts
    Last edited by Deus Ex; 12-04-2004 at 03:11 AM.
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    HP figures are already available from a number of sources. Dyno accuracy varies, weather conditions vary, not everyone really knows what has been done to their engine.

    Sunbelt and Rebello can tell you what various builds will net you.
    Last edited by Bambikiller240; 12-04-2004 at 10:45 AM.

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    Default HP results

    Can you tell me the email address for these figures? I am in the process of building a 280 motor and am interested their recommendations.

    Thanks

    Bob M

    Quote Originally Posted by Bambikiller240
    HP figures are already available from a number of sources. Dyno accuracy varies, weather conditions vary, not everyone really knows what has been done to their engine.

    Sunbelt and Rebello can tell you what various builds will net you.

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    Formerly Datto-Zed Murph's Avatar
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    Also that the american dynos are somewhat optimistic with their outputs.
    RS30-000756

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    Registered User 240ZX's Avatar
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    Interesting statement Justin!!?? What inspires you to suggest that American dynos are more or less than anyone elses dyno? Maybe we just have healthier engines.....most likely not. Besides, we're jacking up Mr. Camouflage's thread.

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    Dyno sheet here: http://www.classiczcars.com/photopos...sort=1&cat=500

    For some reason I couldn't get the image location...

    Anywho,
    255 rwhp (on that day, anyway...)
    NA 3.1 liter (KA24+.5mm pistons, LD28 crank)
    Sunbelt ported and cammed N42 head
    11:1 CR
    45mm OER racing 3x2 carbs, 39mm venturis
    Nismo 1 3/4" 6=>2 header, 3" exhaust

    That's about it...
    Dan Baldwin
    '71 240Z 3.1, 255 rwhp
    COMSCC #7, '02, '03 SPB class champion

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    That's more like it pretty similar to the motor I'll be building.

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    Take the cop in 3rd! Deus Ex's Avatar
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    for sure, cant wait till i find an LD crank
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    Block
    L28 F54 block with siamesed bores, bored 3mm (3.1 L)
    2.8 LD crank
    89 mm pistons
    240Z conrods
    Aluminium flywheel
    race type harmonic balancer
    flywheel, crank, harmonic balancer, pistons, rods all balanced
    Head
    Not sure - either N42 or P90 - will check when I get an opportunity
    Standard valves, ported
    72 degree cam (mild spec)
    Compression 9.5 to 1
    runs on premium unleaded fuel
    Ignition
    CDI
    Fuel system
    Throttle body fuel injection
    Wolf 3D Ver4 engine management
    Exhaust
    ? headers through to 2 1/2 inch mandrel bend exhaust

    148 Kw at the wheels (198 horsepower)

    There are two dyno results - before and after some considerable tweaking of fuel and ignition maps. The top curves (after ) are the current power and torque curves.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	260Z Dynamometer Result Nov 2003_sm.gif 
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    Quote Originally Posted by 240ZX
    Interesting statement Justin!!?? What inspires you to suggest that American dynos are more or less than anyone elses dyno? Maybe we just have healthier engines.....most likely not. Besides, we're jacking up Mr. Camouflage's thread.
    It is relatively common knowledge that US dyno's often produce optimistic numbers. The types of Dyno's are actually different from Australian, the differences were explained to me before, can't remember though.

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    Actually, I suspect that the difference isn't that U.S. dynos are "optimistic", just what they are measuring...SAE VS DIN VS BHP etc... for reference check out the following links:

    http://www.nsxprime.com/FAQ/Miscella...queHPSpeed.htm
    http://www.thepaty.plus.com/8v/top10/dyno.htm

    And I am sure there are others.
    '71 240Z, Because any fool can drive fast in a straight line.

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    240ZX: As san-maru was saying, it's quite well know that if you put a given car on an aussie dyno, then on an american dyno, you'll always get the higher figure on the american dyno. Really, remembering that a dyno should be a tuning tool, to compare powerouts as you change things on your car, then it doesn't matter. I mean you can even compare the figures between the aussie dynos. Eg, Dynodynamics will always read higher than the DynoLog by around 15% or more.

    Dynojet > Dynodynamics > DynoLog
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    Maybe it's just that the US Dynos are more accurate, and the Aussie dynos are inferior?

    (that ought to stir the pot!)

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    12345678910
    Last edited by datfreak; 12-23-2004 at 11:42 PM.
    71 240z -stock as a rock

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    Quote Originally Posted by datfreak
    Most amercians have the belief that ANYTHING that isnt made in the US is inferior. But believe it or not, the USA is NOT the center of the world........(stirring right back)
    That's why "foriegn" cars dominate the automobile market in the US.

    Neither is Australia.

    Seriously, I "could" believe the "It is relatively common knowledge that US dyno's often produce optimistic numbers." statements if they were made with something to back them up besides wind. Documentation? Published opinion of RESPECTED and NOTABLE members of the automotive industry? At this point in this thread, it's all chat, suppostion, and "my dyno is better than yours" posturing.

    Believe it or not, the point of my post was to incite someone (hell, anyone) to come up with a believable bit of PROOF one way or the other.

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    Registered User halz's Avatar
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    Default Get back on track

    Could everone please read the first post again.

    Mr.C, time to edit the thread and remove the irrelevant posts (this one included.)
    halz
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    New headers and 2.25" sports system: They say "loud doesn't mean fast"... I'm just testing the theory!

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    Rule # 4, which I am now guilty of breaking also, should have been bolded, italicized, underlined, or highlighted in some way. I don't think it would have mattered much on this site as we seem to spend more time off topic than on. Sorry, Craig.
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    This post can be deleted if need be.

    Carl: One point I was trying to get across in my post is that dynos should NOT be used for bragging rights. You simply can't compare the results of one dyno to another, even if it's the same model. Dynos are a tuning tool plain and simple. If they're used as a tuning tool then it really doesn't matter if one reads higher than another. All you should need to know if how a mod changed your cars power output.

    As for the american dynos reading higher, go do some searching, I don't have time. Shouldn't be too hard to find.
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    All Craig seemed to want was the results shown on the dyno slip. Not the whys and where fors of how a dyno works or which model is more accurate or which country had better ones. Sheesh! (You can delete this and my other post if you wish)
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    Quote Originally Posted by halz
    Could everone please read the first post again.

    Mr.C, time to edit the thread and remove the irrelevant posts (this one included.)
    I wish I could, only Mike has the power to do that. Or people he's allowed to be moderators, which I'm not.

    I dont mind the clairfication on the US Dynos fudging their power outputs.

    Hopefull Z-Kids link will settle the matter once and for all and people can get back to posting their HP output.

    I just held my tounge, so to speak, while idiots posted stuff like "This information is available elsewhere", but never bothers to post links to it. If it was available, where are the links, and why are people always posting how much power can i get from my L(insert engine capacity designation here)?

    Why even have this website if you are gonna tell people to go somewhere else to get info on Z cars? Lets shut it all down an have a redirect page to zcar.com. Moron.

    Instead of telling people of F*#@-off and look somewhere else for the info, why not just post it here. And spot bitching about it. It's useless comments like that, that we just dont need.

    We all know that dyno results vary depending on enviromental factors.

    Reminds me of granpa Simpson prattling on about irrelevant stuff. "Like the time I took the ferry over to Shelbyville. I needed a new heel for my shoe, so I decided to go to Morganville, which is what they called Shelbyville in those days. So, I tied an onion to my belt, which was the style at the time. Now to ride the ferry cost a nickel, but in those days, nickels had pictures of bumblebees on them. 'Gimme 5 bees for a quarter,' you'd say. Now, where were we? Oh, yes.The important thing was, I had an onion on my belt, which was the style at the time. They didn't have white onions, because of the war. The only thing you could get was those big yellow ones..."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Camouflage
    ........"This information is available elsewhere", but never bothers to post links to it. If it was available, where are the links, and why are people always posting how much power can i get from my L(insert engine capacity designation here)?
    God helps those who help themselves. Use your little fingers to do a search for engine builders like Sunbelt or Rebello (or others knowledgable about L series engines) and ye shall be in touch with people who have the info.

    Why are people asking for info like this? Because some people aren't sufficiently motivated to do their own research, others are not really serious and others just want to ask questions. (curiousity)

    If Dyno results are are a tuning tool and "dynos should NOT be used for bragging rights. You simply can't compare the results of one dyno to another, even if it's the same model." then this thread is relatively meaningless.

    Meanwhile, perhaps it should be stated which countries have Dyno's who's results are considered trustworthy, since some countries have Dyno's that lie.
    Last edited by Bambikiller240; 12-25-2004 at 11:07 PM.

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    Datsaholic Mr Camouflage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bambikiller240
    God helps those who help themselves. Use your little fingers to do a search for engine builders like
    God forbid that you'd come to a Z car website expecting to find some information about the power output of a Z car engine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bambikiller240
    Why are people asking for info like this?
    Because this is a Z car forum for people to ask questions about Z cars. It's not like somebody was asking what the population of outer-mongolia was. If you can have threads about boobs, why not about z car dyno results.

    Why Have all this information here if people arent gonna read it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bambikiller240
    If Dyno results are are a tuning tool and "dynos should NOT be used for bragging rights. You simply can't compare the results of one dyno to another, even if it's the same model." then this thread is relatively meaningless.
    I didnt say anything about bragging rights. Maybe you inferred that because thats the type of person you are.

    This thread is not a competiton about who has the highest output. Is so that poeple can see what modification people have done to their engines and see a dyno result so the can make up their own minds as to what they want to do with their own engine.


    Good on ya to Dues eX, Ross260Z and Dan_Baldwin. Thans for the results. Keep them comming poeple.
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    I thought we were American here in OZ, we copy everything else you lot do after all.

    Maybe it's those weapons of mass deception at work again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bambikiller240
    If Dyno results are are a tuning tool and "dynos should NOT be used for bragging rights. You simply can't compare the results of one dyno to another, even if it's the same model." then this thread is relatively meaningless.
    That's purposely misinterpreting my comment.
    I think I need not explain.
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    Here's a revival but i revisted one of my favorite Z's sites and found the dyno results most distrubing but in a good way of course .

    I had already been told by Alan T that it was somewhere in the 300HP range but the Dyno has confirmed this and caused me to almost wet myself w00t .

    http://www5a.biglobe.ne.jp/~satotats/zhp/z20/index.htm

    It's in Japanese and I haven't babblefished it but i think i'll be buying as much Kameari parts as possible .

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    very interesting website..
    Is the cam tensioner adj on the outside of motor?
    Id love to know the specs on the pistons..
    power output is unreal-- but looks very "cammy" ie very little under 4000rpm(would be great for racing).

    I was quoted $77aus each for Kameari valves here in aust, which was out of my budget-
    but Kameari 46mm inlet valves and 38mm exhausts would have been very cool.

    What is 338ps in howerpower or KW?
    71 240z -stock as a rock

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    Quote Originally Posted by datfreak

    What is 338ps in howerpower or KW?

    For all intents and purposes ps=hp. Someone will probably havethe EXACT value though....

    PS, pistons are WPC which appear to be a Moly alloy from what I can read.
    Last edited by san_maru_zed; 02-05-2005 at 01:32 AM.

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    From what I've read he's had a few issues with the motor and problems with valves and pistons hitting.

    The P90 has huge valves to begin with and my machine shop put in some slightly larger ones. PS = HP it's just the German abbreviation so i've read.

    Your right it looks a little rough under 4000rpm.

    You can tell by the dyno chart it's up and down until about 4000rpm and it's all on then on.

    I'm trying to keep my motor build up streetable but wouldn't mind a bit of coughing down low

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    1 Hp ~ 1.0139 Ps

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    You can trace the destruction of this thread back to deerboy,Iv'e seen him reply to questions in modified zcar forum with links to hybridz.com if you don't know anything about the specific question why bother with a long winded reply with a link to another site

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    Quote Originally Posted by US240Z
    You can trace the destruction of this thread back to deerboy,Iv'e seen him reply to questions in modified zcar forum with links to hybridz.com if you don't know anything about the specific question why bother with a long winded reply with a link to another site
    Ah, another invaluable post from the guy who provides nothing to any thread that he posts to.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alfadog
    1 Hp ~ 1.0139 Ps

    Thanks I tried typing in google to find the conversion rate but nothing came up.

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    I think it has to do with the "pull of the moon". 'Down there' is a looong way to go and the dyno's are upside down. That why they do not work as well. I remember coming home from Sidney and it took 14 1/2 hours. I would love to be in a racecar for 14 hours but never again in an airplane. GAWD it is a long trip! It is a lovely place, however, and the ride was worth it. G'Day
    Z Saint, the vintage racer! I've traveled a long way and some of the roads weren't paved.

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    well to dig up an old thread (i couldnt resist showing off) and to get back to the issue that this thread was started for i got my car tuned the other day. the guy's dyno doesnt do print-outs but the car has 180 RWHP.

    l28
    tripple side-draft 45 webers
    flat tops
    HUGE cam (70 degrees i think??)
    l26 head
    extractors
    2 1/4" exhaust
    10.something compression

    Tom.

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    what head work has been done?

    i'd say that's what is holding it back at the moment

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    holding it back? i thought 235 at the flywheel was a fairly good figure and the guy at the tuning shop said he loved how strong the motor was and he's been working on thiese things his whole life...

    anyway, the whole engine has been ported, polished and blue printed, so i'd say the works has been done on the head.

    Tom.
    Last edited by Tommo560; 03-03-2005 at 03:17 AM.

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    Sometimes port work is only a tickle it depends who did it and if it was bench tested etc..

    I'd say there more power to be got but it's a case of more money as always.

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    I dont know if there would be a whole lot more to get out of it. I have not built up nor dynoéd several L28s, but from what I have seen and experienced those numbers look about right(for a stree engine, not a full house race motor).

    Gav240z, what makes you think that there is something "holding it back¨ ?

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    For what's been done it seems very reasonable. I just think if you wanted more power you'd look at porting and camshaft profile that's all. It's a good results none the less don't get me wrong.

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    hmm interesting,

    thing is it is supposed to be a full-out race motor. that's what it's design purpose was for, the whole car for that matter.

    i dunno what you guys expected but i was told 200hp (i assume that means at the flywheel) was what to expect from other people in perth (australia) who have the same setup as this.

    i am quite happy and some of the figures i see from the us site's i do believe to be unrealistic.

    i dont know how to get any more power from it but let me know and i can find out if the car has had it done yet or not.

    Cheers,

    Tom.

  43. #43
    Registered User Tommo560's Avatar
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    BTW:

    the car's rev limit is set to 6500RPM and that is what it was left at for the tuning do maybe more power would be experianced by moving this to say 7000RPM? i'm not going to but the car does lag till about 4000RPM and then the motor hauls REAL hard till red line when the fuel cut stops acceleration.

    Tom.

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    My car has dynoed at 255rwhp (see my post on page 1 for link), but only once. Two other dyno runs on different occasions (both before and after the 255 run) had me at 235 and 238 respectively. On the same day I did 238rwhp, stock 350Z's (factory rated at 287 at the flywheel) were doing 240rwhp (DANG!).

    Stuff to consider, anyway...
    Dan Baldwin
    '71 240Z 3.1, 255 rwhp
    COMSCC #7, '02, '03 SPB class champion

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    Tom,
    At what rpm were you making peak power? Mine peaks at ~6250-6500. I limit it to 7000, sometimes 7200.

    Anyway, if your peak torque in lb.-ft is less than your peak power in hp, there's definitely more hp to be had given a big cam, big carbs, and headwork, whatever the absolute NUMBERS are. My peak hp is ~15-18% greater than my torque in lb-ft.
    Dan Baldwin
    '71 240Z 3.1, 255 rwhp
    COMSCC #7, '02, '03 SPB class champion

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    Registered User Brett240's Avatar
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    Tom,

    thats very strong mate i wouldnt worry about more headwork/cam etc. A few guys in the Sydney Z club have similiar setups to yours and are getting about the same at the wheels.

    if you want more grunt than this from a half steetable engine then you will need to go bigger capacity.

    to move your power band you will need more compression. so thats new pistons or rods. and hell if your going to do that bore those cylinders out 3mm.

    what you have sounds pretty good to me.
    73 240z,
    sequential Fuel injected L28 3 Litre,
    152 KW @ wheels (6800RPM)
    300zx TT Brakes, R200 LSD
    Sydney Australia

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    i dont plan on doing any more work it all seems good to me, the power is about right and the tourque is good.

    i dont know what the peaks are thw tuner's dyno doesnt do a computer read out so when i get a run on a differant dyno i'll let you know.

    Tom.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tommo560
    BTW:

    the car's rev limit is set to 6500RPM and that is what it was left at for the tuning do maybe more power would be experianced by moving this to say 7000RPM? i'm not going to but the car does lag till about 4000RPM and then the motor hauls REAL hard till red line when the fuel cut stops acceleration.

    Tom.
    If you only rev it to 6500RPM and are running it on fuel from your local servo, than its not a purpose built racing engine. Just to give you some idea, There was a Japanese L28 engined drag car that made 330ps. Yes it was 3.1L, but it gives you some sort of perspective as to the potential (if you have $$) of a purpose built L series.

    But like everyone says, what you are getting sounds about right. I would be very happy if my L28 made anything near that.

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    Cheers San Maru ,

    the motor, like the rest of the car is a compromise. the motor has all the best stuff according to the datto engine builder, so i suppose it wouldn't take much to make it an all-out race motor. rev limit is set at 6500 for engine life.

    Tom.
    Last edited by Tommo560; 03-04-2005 at 09:02 PM.

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    Here is the dyno sheet for a motor I built with these specifications:

    Stock bore
    flat top pistons
    N47 head
    10:1 CR
    Stock cam, no port work
    port matched intake
    60mm throttle body
    Stock F54 short block (no balancing, etc.)
    6:1 header
    2.5" exhaust with supertrapp muffler
    stock 81' 280ZX distributor and coil
    Megasquirt fuel injection (fuel only)
    stock 280Z injectors


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    Default 260Z Dyno Plot (not mine)

    This dyno plot raised my eyebrows a few months back on improvedtouring.com. At the time, it was purported to be a 260Z running flat-top carbs on an engine dyno (data measured at the crank).

    Later, one of the owners posted that they now feel that the dyno run must have used round-top carbs, because they are SURE it doesn't make 235 hp at the crank. I will say here (I didn't chime in on the other board because everybody is so arrogant there and the owners have some other nice cars so I figured they knew what they were doing) that I immediately doubted their dyno plot.
    The sad part of this story is that these guys took their car to Carolina Motorsports Park last month and had some bad luck. Their carbs were cutting out (been there, experienced that!) so they worked on the floats in their hotel room the night before the race. They posted that their carbs ran well for 3-4 laps of the race, then a plug worked its way loose and they had a fire. Race Results
    You can read the discussion about it here

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    I find it hard to believe that an ITS L26 puts out 235 HP at the crank. Don't ITS cars have to run stock CR, and cam? an 8.5:1 L26 with a stock cam would be lucky to make 160HP at the crank.

    Pete

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    L Series EFI/Turbo whiz skyline_stu's Avatar
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    Smile Can anyone top this one?? 465RWHP L28

    Been building the ultimate L series for a few years now. Here's the last 2 combo's. I did the lot, except for some precision machining. First one (blue line) was a high compression low boost effort with a different gearbox. made about 280hp. The monster red line was my last combo. Went 465hp @ tyres, which is atleast 550hp at the motor. 4 people in the boot couldn't stop it wheelspining either.
    Consists of
    F54 Block + 1.5mm o/s pistons
    Forged pistons/total seal rings
    billet rods
    modified l28 crank
    welded up and reshaped chambers/ports N42 head
    custom exhaust, intake and intercooler
    MoTeC M48PRO ecu + suitable fuel system

    New one being built now.I want 700hp or more at motor this time round.
    Stu.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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    Hi Stu are you in Australia? I think I heard about that motor being up for sale at some point.

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    L Series EFI/Turbo whiz skyline_stu's Avatar
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    Default Motor

    Yeah, i'm in Queensland. No, I hadn't offered it for sale before. I've slowly developed it over about 8 or 9 years. had a lot of crankshaft failures early on with the LD28 crank. used to spit out the keyways and chuck a balancer. been using a modified l28 crank with ok results. the power is fairly brutal. makes boost at about 2500rpm, but it's not usable. wastegate starts to control boost at around 3500rpm. from 4000 to 7200 hang on. The blue line was what I ran at the townsville auto show in 2002. but i've done a lot since then.

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    Thought this thread was dead, unsure as to the validaty of comparing data from such varying sources but well might as well contribute.

    2.8 N54 block (no over bore)
    Custom height Flat tops producing 48thou quench
    Gapless rings
    N42 head, ported flow benched specifically for this injection project.
    Steel 1 mm head gasket
    Stainless valves
    310 degree cam
    Triple Jenvey 40mm throttle bodies
    Emerald 32 bit ECU
    252 cc injectors
    Carbon fibre 65 mm air horns
    Nismo 1 5/8 header and custom collector
    Electric water pump, fan etc


    250 Hp @ the flywheel
    205 @ the wheels
    Produced on a dyno owned by a guy who writes a column in several mainstream performance magazines for what its worth.

    13.72 on the 1/4 mile
    Quickest NA L6 engined Z in the UK 13.19@102.02 mph for the 1/4....on a non bored/stroked 2.8

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    Registered User jackboxxx's Avatar
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    I wanted something I could give all those local kids in the "fast & furious" crowd a run for thier money with.

    N-42 Block -Boiled, Bored, Honed
    89MM flattop Pistons
    New 5.25" rods w/ARP Bolts
    Worked E-88 Head w/ Race Porting
    LD28 Crank, Magnafluxed & Polished
    BHJ Custom Street Balancer/Dampener
    478 Lift / 275 Duration Rebello Cam
    New Rod & main Bearings
    New Intake & Exhaust Valves
    All New Timing Chain Kit, Water Pump, Turbo Oil Pump
    "Big Bore" Dual SU Carb Mod 50mm
    Recurved Distributor w/ Pertronix Electronic Ign Upgrade
    MSD BLASTER 2 Ignition Coil Setup (45,000 volt)
    Nissan Motorsports Chrome 3into2 Comp. Header 1.5/8" Tubing
    2 1/2" Aluminized Exhaust w/ Stainless Steel Magnaflow Muffler
    Lightened Aluminum Flywheel 13.5 LB.
    Centerforce 2 Clutch & Pressure Plate
    280ZX Turbo 5 Speed Transmission


    Dyno tuning 1
    This pic is several runs combined for fine tuning purposes.

    Bar Chart Readout 1
    Tried to catch the readout right at peak HP output...i missed slightly.

    4500-7300 RPM Readout
    Then a complete printout through the RPM range.
    NOT Empty Anymore...

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