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Thread: Valve cover differences

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    Default Valve cover differences

    Are there any internal diff? Outside i know there was a 2400 on the early z but is there any reason you cant swap all of the covers as you please?

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    No! They all fit all of the Lseries inline 6s!
    Will
    A Z is beautiful from any angle, I just happen to prefer to view from the drivers' seat!

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    So how many different looking ones are out there?

    PS Since the original question has been answere i though I will change the topic slightly
    Last edited by blue_leaf; 03-18-2006 at 07:03 PM.

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    That is correct! The ONLY difference is the lettering on the top. There are 5 that I have seen and are as follows:

    "NISSAN OHC"
    "NISSAN 2400 OHC"
    "NISSAN 2000 OHC"
    "NISSAN"
    "TURBO"
    "BOB SHARP"
    "" <---------this one is blank on top, I believe this to be a modification (i.e. ground off letters)

    Furthermore, if you have the 2400 or NISSAN styles and wish to sell them to me for a fair price I'm always on the lookout for one of these.
    Last edited by texasz; 03-25-2006 at 07:54 AM.
    '70 240Z - HLS30-08215 - Production Date 8/70
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    '71 240Z - HLS30-018482 - Production Date 1/71,Corvette Yellow, driven under a 4Runner, bought for parts, hit lotto with parts on car, may fix and put back on road

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    These are the ones I have seen
    Nissan OHC
    Nissan 2400
    Nissan Turbo
    Nissan
    and A blank one with No script-was not polished, and did not appear to have been machined(casting marks on the top)


    (Oh sure TexasZ beat me to the punch while I was typing...again!)
    Last edited by hls30.com; 03-18-2006 at 06:32 PM.
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    [QUOTE=texasz]That is correct! The ONLY difference is the lettering on the top. There are 5 that I have seen and are as follows:

    "NISSAN OHC"
    "NISSAN 2400"
    "NISSAN"
    "TURBO"
    /QUOTE]

    Mine says: " NISSAN 2400 OHC "
    George

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    My '70 Series I also reads: " NISSAN 2400 OHC "
    '70 240Z - (HLS30-06521) restoring stock, owned since '78
    http://www.classiczcars.com/photopos...r=8626&cat=500

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    There is a difference on one of them.
    The cover that just says "NISSAN" in big letters is slightly taller. It is a JDM item, and if installed in a S-30 with new motor mounts, you cannot install several makes of strut bar. BTW I just sold my JDM "NISSAN" cam cover, or should say traded away. I have a new PDK Fabrication strut bar and could no longer use it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hls30.com
    (Oh sure TexasZ beat me to the punch while I was typing...again!)
    This seems to happen to the two of us rather frequently.

    Great minds....
    '70 240Z - HLS30-08215 - Production Date 8/70
    '70 240Z - HLS30-06293 - Rusty and has Identity Crisis (must have been wrecked and the back 1/2 sectioned in from a later car maybe even a 280Z)...PARTS CAR!
    '71 240Z - HLS30-018482 - Production Date 1/71,Corvette Yellow, driven under a 4Runner, bought for parts, hit lotto with parts on car, may fix and put back on road

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    This is what the Nissan 2400 OHC looks like.....
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    George

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    Actually, the Nissan L-series 6 cylinder engine debuted 5 years before the S30-series Z in the 1965 'Cedric Special Six'. Valve covers from the early six cylinder engines won't fit the 'late' heads ( ie E30 / E31 / E88 / N42 etc etc ) because the method of affixing them was different.

    Here's a pic of the top end of an L20A six from that 1965 'Cedric Special Six':
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    Thanks Alan,
    Looks like an awful lot like a longer version of a Sr311 cover...perhapse the L series evolved from the changes in its engine?(not to hijack the thread...)
    Will
    A Z is beautiful from any angle, I just happen to prefer to view from the drivers' seat!

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    What years had which covers? For example; what should an original 72 cover look like? Was there a difference for auto vs 4speed transmissions? I really like the polished look but am I correct in assuming that this is not an original look?
    Thanks,
    Greg

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    Is the coil mounted in that position normally on the L20A six?
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    Not on the S30-series Z.

    Bear in mind that the L20 I posted a pic of was the first Nissan L-series engine, and was fitted to the 1965 Cedric Special Six. There are lots of detail differences between that engine and the L20A that was first used in the 1969 S30-series Z.

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    Question What did I see?

    I'm sure I saw a cam cover with the script "HYPER 6" in raised letters from the rear to the front on an old Nissan 6 motor (it was old then) I was offered with a Prince...~ 20 (too many) years ago. At that time I thought it was the second one I had seen. Am I kidding myself? or has anybody else in their travels seen one of these? ...or any clues??
    Jim.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GregP
    What years had which covers? For example; what should an original 72 cover look like? Was there a difference for auto vs 4speed transmissions? I really like the polished look but am I correct in assuming that this is not an original look?
    Thanks,
    Greg
    Kinda of a trick question as the lines are quite blurry at times when you are talking about what part came stock on what car with the Z. In short here's what I know:

    "NISSAN 2400 OHC" came on '69-very early '71
    "NISSAN OHC" from '71 to '83 (non-turbo cars)
    "TURBO" on the '81 - '83 turbo 280ZX
    "NISSAN" is a JDM item and I do not know the years
    "BOB SHARP" is a custom item for the Bob Sharp race team
    "" I have no idea about these
    '70 240Z - HLS30-08215 - Production Date 8/70
    '70 240Z - HLS30-06293 - Rusty and has Identity Crisis (must have been wrecked and the back 1/2 sectioned in from a later car maybe even a 280Z)...PARTS CAR!
    '71 240Z - HLS30-018482 - Production Date 1/71,Corvette Yellow, driven under a 4Runner, bought for parts, hit lotto with parts on car, may fix and put back on road

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    Hi Texasz (everyone)
    As far as we have been able to determine to date, the switch from the NISSAN 2400 OHC valve cover to the NISSAN OHC valve cover, at least here in North America, took place with the beginning of production of the 240-Z equipped with an A/T. That would make it around 09/70 at about HLS30 089xx. For a brief time cars past that VIN arrived with either one, but we have found none with production dates later than 10/70 to have been equipped with the "2400" type. All of the A/T cars seem to have had the NISSAN OHC valve covers.

    FWIW,
    Carl B.

    Clearwater, FL USA
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    I saw a JDM (aftermarket I think) cover with the Large block lettered NISSAN. But this cover was plastic. Les Cannaday had it in his shop and was very excited over it. As to why he was so jazzed, I didn't catch the story.
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    If you removed the letters "ISSAN" from the top (later models, I think), it would just say


    "Z"

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    only if you looked at it cock-eyed

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    Quote Originally Posted by hls30.com
    Thanks Alan,
    Looks like an awful lot like a longer version of a Sr311 cover...perhapse the L series evolved from the changes in its engine?(not to hijack the thread...)
    Will
    Hi Will (everyone):
    Interesting point and based on everything I can find, it would seem to hold some truth.

    Lets continue the discussion a bit farther... and see if we can find out where the valve covers in question came from.....

    With the merger of Prince into Nissan starting in 1965 and being completed in early 66, the development of Nissan's racing program and engine development efforts were halted, and the Prince R-380 was advanced. Prince had far more experience in both competition and the design of OHC engines... so why not put it to use. Actually the Prince G7 of 1961 looks amazingly like the Nissan L20 of 1966. (picture below as used in the Skyline 2000 GT A & B from 64 thru 67) Both in turn reflect the M/B engine of the early 50's... with intake/exhaust and spark plugs swapping sides of the engine.

    One of the first design jobs the engineers from Prince (in addition to the Competition Development efforts), were assigned at Nissan, was the development of the overhead cam & associated head for the 2000 Roadster. The result was a new head with overhead cam, mounted on the older Austin derived block - aka the U20. With twin S.U's a 150HP 2.0L introduced in 67.

    While all this was happening in 65/66, our friend Mr. K was lobbying Nissan Motors Ltd. for a 1600cc engine in the upcoming 510. As originally spec.'s the 510 was to be a 1300cc, but Mr. K felt that was too small an engine for his US Market. Not getting the support from the management chain in either the Design Department or the Export Department, he felt was critical to the success of the 510 in the Export market, he called on an older friend, whom he had known from MITI and who was then a high ranking Nissan Official... a Memo ordering the 1600cc engine for the 510 was drafted, signed by Mr. Matsumura and sent down the management chain in April 66. (there is a chapter about this in Halberstan's "The Reckoning". - and this is part of Mr. K's troubles with H.Q. over the years)

    The L16 was thus born in 67 and introduced in the 1968 510. This is the beginning of the "L Series" engines we all know and love today. It was in fact a complete new engine design. new block, new head, new "Valve Cover". One might call it the next generation of Nissan L Series engines at Nissan; where one Parent was Nissan and the other Prince, but it was not otherwise related to their previous "L" Type engines.

    In 67 when Mr, K ask for an L24 for the Datsun Z, the L16 In-line four, became an L24 In-line six. 1595cc/4=398.75cc x 6 = 2392.5 aka 2393cc. Same bore/stroke, valve train components etc. In effect the L16 with larger valves and two additional cylinders. (this kept parts inventory and mechanical training common to the two engines used in the export market). In this case the L24 might be viewed as simply the Grown Up version of the younger L16.

    In 68 the Cedric G130 received an L23, which would appear to be a shorter stroke version of the L24. (bore 83/ stroke 69.7). It would be interesting to see what the block casting numbers are on these engines. In 69 the Cedric G130-U received the L24.

    The L20A that by the end of 1969 was standard in the JDM Fairlady Z's. must have come into being some time after the L24 was specified and design started. Why would I think that???

    Mr. Matsuo tells us in his book "Fairlady Z Story", that he had concerns that the L24 specified for the Z (around Aug. of 1967) would meet with very high taxes in Japan, thus resulting in a model too expensive to sell in the domestic market. When he expressed these concerns to Nissan Management, he was told to use the Prince S20 for the JDM market version (this eventually became the famous Z432 model incidentally). So at least we know that in Aug. of 1967 the L24 with both Standard and Automatic transmissions were planned for the Z and that the S20 was specified for the JDM by Nissan Management. The L20A must not have been around at that time - otherwise Mr. Matsuo's concerns about engine size for the JDM market, would not have existed at that point.

    It would appear that by Oct. 69 the L20A had been conceived, and was already starting production, as it showed up in the spec. sheets, press packages etc. Of course in Oct. of 69 the spec. sheets/ sales brochure outlined an L24 with triple solex side drafts, 10:1 compression and 175HP for the Export Market at that time too. (sad we didn't get it as planned;-(

    So our L24 Valve Covers are simply streatched versions of the L13/16 valve covers. I think there was an L16 valve cover that said "DATSUN OHC" on it. Maybe I'll try to get one, and have to modified to fit an L24. That would be a conversation piece!


    FWIW,
    Carl B.


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    Wow Carl, it seems just like old times. You are spouting backward, revisionist - almost 'Creationist' - untruths and plain lies about Nissan history again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Beck
    With the merger of Prince into Nissan starting in 1965 and being completed in early 66, the development of Nissan's racing program and engine development efforts were halted, and the Prince R-380 was advanced. Prince had far more experience in both competition and the design of OHC engines... so why not put it to use. Actually the Prince G7 of 1961 looks amazingly like the Nissan L20 of 1966. (picture below as used in the Skyline 2000 GT A & B from 64 thru 67) Both in turn reflect the M/B engine of the early 50's...
    You're too late. The Nissan 'L-gata' engine had already been designed, tested, productionised and fitted in cars before Prince was merged with Nissan in 65/66.

    I'll just repeat a quote from you for emphasis:

    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Beck
    Actually the Prince G7 of 1961 looks amazingly like the Nissan L20 of 1966.
    Why did you choose 1966 Carl? Does that year's L20 have any special significance over and above the L20 of 1964 or 1965? Surely you are not saying that the L20 didn't exist before 1966?.......

    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Beck
    ......As originally spec.'s the 510 was to be a 1300cc, but Mr. K felt that was too small an engine for his US Market. ........
    You're still looking down the wrong end of that telescope, Carl.......

    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Beck
    ..... a memo ordering the 1600cc engine for the 510 was drafted, signed by Mr. Matsumura and sent down the management chain in April 66. (there is a chapter about this in Halberstan's "The Reckoning". - and this is part of Mr. K's troubles with H.Q. over the years)
    Oh dear, I can see where that is leading you:

    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Beck
    The L16 was thus born in 67 and introduced in the 1968 510. This is the beginning of the "L Series" engines we all know and love today.
    There it is. Total nonsense backed up with unrelated and irrelevant data. I find it distressing to think that people will read what you have written and treat it as historical fact, just because it comes from the keyboard of a known and trusted 'scholar' on the subject of the Z. They are being misled.

    Carl, the beginning of the Nissan 'L-Gata' engine came more than three years before that. Why are you perpetuating the myth that the L16 'begat' the L24 - when BOTH of them are simply evolutions of the L20 six that was already on the test bed in 1964, and in a production vehicle by 1965?

    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Beck
    It was in fact a complete new engine design. new block, new head, new "Valve Cover". One might call it the next generation of Nissan L Series engines at Nissan; where one Parent was Nissan and the other Prince, but it was not otherwise related to their previous "L" Type engines.
    Complete bullsh*t. This is the distortion of historical facts simply to suit the 'truth' as offered by Nissan Motor Co. USA's advertising copy - which you seem to have fallen hook, line and sinker for more than 35 years ago. How can you say that they were "unrelated"??!! This is complete nonsense. Its just laughable.

    Just how you seem to think you can draw an arbitrary line of demarcation across a clear timeline of evolutionary development - for the sole purpose of supporting a lie - is shocking and shameful. I thought you had learned some fresh history about the true evolution of the Nissan 'L-Gata' engine on this forum over the last few years, but it seems not. Now you are simply distorting the truth to make it fit other lies.

    And it goes on:

    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Beck
    The L20A that by the end of 1969 was standard in the JDM Fairlady Z's. must have come into being some time after the L24 was specified and design started. Why would I think that???
    Yes - indeed why?
    Would it perhaps be related to the fact that you obviously know next to nothing about the origin, design and production history of the Nissan 'L-Gata' engine? Would it possibly be related to the fact that your version of 'Z history' on zhome.com for some inexplicable reason completely ignores the Japanese home-market L20-engined cars? Is that a clue? Only you know the answer.

    I remember you telling me that you thought the Japanese L20-engined cars were "irrelevant" to the history of the '240Z'. A clear demonstration of the way you approach the history of the S30-series Z. Quite bizarre.

    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Beck
    Mr. Matsuo tells us in his book "Fairlady Z Story", that he had concerns that the L24 specified for the Z (around Aug. of 1967) would meet with very high taxes in Japan, thus resulting in a model too expensive to sell in the domestic market. When he expressed these concerns to Nissan Management, he was told to use the Prince S20 for the JDM market version (this eventually became the famous Z432 model incidentally). So at least we know that in Aug. of 1967 the L24 with both Standard and Automatic transmissions were planned for the Z and that the S20 was specified for the JDM by Nissan Management. The L20A must not have been around at that time - otherwise Mr. Matsuo's concerns about engine size for the JDM market, would not have existed at that point.
    You obviously misunderstand the situation here too. Matsuo was indeed worried about going above the 2 litre taxation class in the Japanese market ( and it wasn't just Matsuo of course....). However, what you don't seem to have grasped is that the S30-series Z was slated to have both the L20 and the L24 for the Japanese market at that point - with the L24 also being used for 'Export' versions and a Japanese home market 'peformance' model ( in fact, the decision to use the L20 engine in the Z predated the existence of the L24 engine ). This was quashed by higher management who wanted to make the 'performance' home market model use the S20 twin cam - which would give them a prestige high performance model that stayed within the 2 litre taxation class.

    How you can imagine that the L20-engined Z didn't come into being until after the L24-engine had been specified for the Z just demonstrates that you always have the cart before the horse. I can't help thinking that this is further evidence of your desire to 'prove' that the HLS30U was some kind of Z genesis, and that you are prepared to distort the facts in order to 'prove' it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Beck
    It would appear that by Oct. 69 the L20A had been conceived, and was already starting production, as it showed up in the spec. sheets, press packages etc.
    Duh.......
    If you took the time to research it properly ( and that means from Japanese sources, you would see that the L20A was already powering many of the cars that were sitting in the car park at Nissan's Japanese press-preview event for the S30-series Z in October 1969! At that point, it had been around for the best part of five years..........




    Some recommended reading for people who are interested in the true history of the Nissan 'L-Gata' engine. Unfortunately, it is written in Japanese - but that should not be a surprise, surely?:

    *'Ten Years Of Japanese Engine History' - by Eizo Ikeda. Published in the February 1972 issue of 'Motor Fan' magazine ( Japan ).

    *'Secrets Of The Nissan 'L-Gata' Engine' - Published by Sankaido Motor Books ( Japan ) 2005.

    *'Interview With Mr Hiroshi Iida - Designer Of The L20-type engine' - written by Manabu Kumano. Published in issue no.102 of 'Nostalgic Hero' magazine ( Japan ) - April 2004.

    I'll just finish off by posting this picture, which depicts the L20 six as fitted to the 1965 H130 'Cedric Special Six'. THIS engine was the true evolutionary ancestor of 'our' Nissan L-series engines:

    Alan T.
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    Just came across this link which shows a new valve cover which I have never seen before, the "NISSAN 2000 OHC" http://www1.odn.ne.jp/yooopage/mysky...gin_cover.html
    '70 240Z - HLS30-08215 - Production Date 8/70
    '70 240Z - HLS30-06293 - Rusty and has Identity Crisis (must have been wrecked and the back 1/2 sectioned in from a later car maybe even a 280Z)...PARTS CAR!
    '71 240Z - HLS30-018482 - Production Date 1/71,Corvette Yellow, driven under a 4Runner, bought for parts, hit lotto with parts on car, may fix and put back on road

    My Photo Gallery

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    Yeah early valve covers had the engine size on them. 2000 for a 2 litre, 2400 for a 2.4.
    Last edited by Mr Camouflage; 05-09-2006 at 07:45 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by texasz
    Just came across this link which shows a new valve cover which I have never seen before, the "NISSAN 2000 OHC" http://www1.odn.ne.jp/yooopage/mysky...gin_cover.html
    Yes, and if you follow this link on the same site - you'll see the L20A under discussion in the 68 Skyline GC10/KGC10.

    Too bad there are no close-up's of the valve covers...

    http://www1.odn.ne.jp/yooopage/othermachine.html

    From: http://history.jbskyline.net/index2.php#4thgen

    Quote:
    The Skyline 2000GT (GC10 series)

    Just like all other derivatives of the C10 series, the GC10 (G standing for GT) was basically planned by Prince, although it was later badged Nissan Skyline 2000GT. It was introduced in 1968 (2 months after the 1500) and first came in 4-door sedan (GC10) and 5-door wagon versions and from 1970 on also with two doors (KGC10). The car was almost the same as the preceding S54 GT-A model, featuring a 6-cylinder engine instead of the previously common 4-cylinder. The Skyline 2000GT got the L20 engine, a 1998ccm OHC inline-6 with 105hp.... End Quote:


    Scrol down and check this valve cover:
    http://www1.odn.ne.jp/yooopage/A-san.html

    FWIW,
    Carl B.

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    Wasnt there a "NISSAN 2300" or "NISSAN 2300 OHC" valve cover from the Datsun Super 6 (P130) (on an L23 obviously). Think I remember seeing one of those too.
    www.nostalgictrio.com Skyline - Silvia - Fairlady Z
    www.ozdat.com The Australian Datsun site.
    www.cafepress.com/vintagedatsun

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Beck
    Scrol down and check this valve cover:
    http://www1.odn.ne.jp/yooopage/A-san.html

    FWIW,
    Carl B.
    You've never seen one of those before? Aftermarket, based on one of the 'Kakimoto Racing' originals.

    There's one sitting on top of my engine:
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Beck
    Yes, and if you follow this link on the same site - you'll see the L20A under discussion in the 68 Skyline GC10/KGC10.

    Too bad there are no close-up's of the valve covers...
    Carl,
    There was no KGC10 in 1968.

    Here's a scan from the 1968 Skyline 2000GT ( GC10 ) sales catalogue:
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    Two shots from the 1969 Tokyo Auto Show.

    'Cedric Special Six' engine bay and 'Fairlady Z-L' engine bay. Both 'NISSAN 2000 OHC' cam cover:
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    Quote Originally Posted by HS30-H
    You've never seen one of those before? Aftermarket, based on one of the 'Kakimoto Racing' originals.

    There's one sitting on top of my engine:
    Alan - you have aftermarket parts on YOUR Z!! and one's that say DATSUN.. yea gad!!

    regards,
    Carl B.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HS30-H
    Carl,
    There was no KGC10 in 1968.

    Here's a scan from the 1968 Skyline 2000GT ( GC10 ) sales catalogue:

    Hi Alan:
    Yes... and quoted site does say .."and from 1970 on also with two doors (KGC10).." sorry didn't mean to mislead anyone...

    regards,
    Carl

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Beck
    Alan - you have aftermarket parts on YOUR Z!! and one's that say DATSUN.. yea gad!!
    regards,
    Carl B.
    Sure I have. Why not? Its no 'concours' queen ( dread the thought ). That thing's had R.S.Watanabe 8-spokes and a Sanyo Sports Kit triple carb setup since time immemorial ( well, long before it came to the UK anyway......). Its got plenty of factory Sports Option parts on it too though.

    'Datsun'? What's wrong with that!?

    Actually, you probably know that many Japanese have a strong affection for the Datsun brand name ( just look at Kats for example ) and the name still gets used with a certain recherche du temps perdu.

    I often grin when I read people talking about their "Datsun" engine, when in fact it says 'NISSAN' in big letters along the cam cover. You could see my cam cover as Ying to that Yang; A Japanese company using the 'Datsun' name on a Nissan engine out of a kind of inverted snobbery.

    By the way - its not on the car anymore. Its sitting on a shelf in my garage. The organ transplant was rejected, so to speak.

    Alan T.

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    Come on Carl, play the game.
    I'd like to hear your justification for standing by some of the erroneous 'history' you have added to this thread - especially in light of my challenges to it, when I cited the words of the very man who designed the Nissan 'L-Gata' engine. That's not my take on it all - I'm just the messenger. The history comes from the mouth of one of the main protagonists. It completely contradicts your version of events.

    Here are two of the quotes that warrant further scrutiny and discussion:

    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Beck
    The L16 was thus born in 67 and introduced in the 1968 510. This is the beginning of the "L Series" engines we all know and love today.
    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Beck
    It was in fact a complete new engine design. new block, new head, new "Valve Cover". One might call it the next generation of Nissan L Series engines at Nissan; where one Parent was Nissan and the other Prince, but it was not otherwise related to their previous "L" Type engines.
    Both of these are clearly wrong according to historical evidence and the words of the designer of Nissan's 'L-Gata' engine. What's your reply to that?

    I think I need to start a new thread on the topic of the true evolutionary development of the Nissan 'L-Gata' / 'L-type' / 'L-series' engine.

    Alan T.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HS30-H

    I think I need to start a new thread on the topic of the true evolutionary development of the Nissan 'L-Gata' / 'L-type' / 'L-series' engine.

    Alan T.
    Please and pinch me too!

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    Quote Originally Posted by HS30-H
    You've never seen one of those before? Aftermarket, based on one of the 'Kakimoto Racing' originals.

    There's one sitting on top of my engine:
    alan, can you provide more information on this valve cover? How much is it worth, how rare is it?

    ...where can i get one? lol

    edit: just found the Kakimotoracing.co.jp website... $607(us)!!! and it doesn't even have a part number next to it.
    Last edited by olie05; 03-26-2006 at 12:27 AM.
    '77 280z

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    Hi Guys,

    I haven't posted for ages on here, hope the people I know are all well.

    Interesting discussion which is also going on at HybridZ.

    I am curious to know whether companies such as Kamikoto and Bob Sharp Racing etc.. adapted the standard valve cover (by shaving off the standard letters and glueing on their own design) or did they create a completely new casting? Can someone who has one please confirm.

    It doesn't seems economically feasable to create a completely new castings just for a logo yet they look cast to me.

    Below is the Bob Sharp cover, which I much prefer over the Kamikoto, if anyone has one for sale then please let me know!

    George
    1973 240Z -The Green Beast- L28 FI

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    Quote Originally Posted by olie05
    alan, can you provide more information on this valve cover? How much is it worth, how rare is it?
    ...where can i get one? lol
    Hi olie,
    Mine is at least 15 years old now, and I can't remember which company it was that had my version cast. I think I remember buying it from 'Escort', but I don't believe it was 'their' version.

    The 'original' casting pattern was paid for by Kakimoto Racing I believe, and the others are all taken from modified versions of that pattern - cast at the same foundry. Probably a case of the foundry keeping some ownership rights to the pattern and making their money back by letting other companies have their own versions that didn't infringe whatever rights Kakimoto still held. That's just an educated guess though.

    Kameari Engine Works in Yashio City, Saitama prefecture still sell the 'DATSUN 2400' version with 'OHC' on the front. Price is 50,400 JPY including sales tax. I know the company well and have been dealing with them for many years now.

    I haven't seen the 'DATSUN 3100' version on sale for some years now, and I presume they are fairly rare. This is probably due to the fact that they were cast in batches, and not enough demand for a new batch has held back production.

    Bound to show up on Yahoo auctions Japan eventually if you keep your eyes open........

    Sorry I can't be of more help.

    Alan T.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HS30-H
    You've never seen one of those before? Aftermarket, based on one of the 'Kakimoto Racing' originals.

    There's one sitting on top of my engine:
    What's this one say? I can only read part of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by olie05
    alan, can you provide more information on this valve cover? How much is it worth, how rare is it?

    ...where can i get one? lol

    edit: just found the Kakimotoracing.co.jp website... $607(us)!!! and it doesn't even have a part number next to it.
    And here's a whole nother thread on this topic: http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=20901
    Last edited by texasz; 03-26-2006 at 10:09 AM.
    '70 240Z - HLS30-08215 - Production Date 8/70
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    Quote Originally Posted by texasz
    What's this one say? I can only read part of it.


    And here's a whole nother thread on this topic: http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=20901
    Hope alan doesn't mind me answering this question... but it says "datsun 3100" and then "OHC" on the cam pulley hump.

    thanks for the link texasz
    '77 280z

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    Some comparison pics:
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    Quote Originally Posted by HS30-H
    Some comparison pics:
    Any real reason for it being so squared off compaired to the stock/original valve covers?
    '70 240Z - HLS30-08215 - Production Date 8/70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Beck

    Quote:
    The Skyline 2000GT (GC10 series)

    Just like all other derivatives of the C10 series, the GC10 (G standing for GT) was basically planned by Prince, although it was later badged Nissan Skyline 2000GT. It was introduced in 1968 (2 months after the 1500) and first came in 4-door sedan (GC10) and 5-door wagon versions and from 1970 on also with two doors (KGC10). The car was almost the same as the preceding S54 GT-A model, featuring a 6-cylinder engine instead of the previously common 4-cylinder. The Skyline 2000GT got the L20 engine, a 1998ccm OHC inline-6 with 105hp.... End Quote:
    The quote also implies that Nissan made GT versions of the wagon, which they did not. Nissan only made them as 2 door hardtops and 4 door sedans.

    Back to the discussion at hand, my 71 Skyline has the "Nissan OHC" cam cover; but I have seen the "Nissan 2000 OHC" cover. Since the basic engine is the same, L20, L24, L26 and L28 cam covers all interchange. The popular one here seems to be the JDM one with NISSAN in big block letters on it.
    Miles

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    Attached are some more photos of the Kakimoto style valve covers...
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    There was a BOB SHARP valve cover on a car on ebay a while back, George. Attached is a photo from that auction. Looks like they were $119 new.
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    Thanks for all the pictures! This thread has been quite informative for me. Who would-a thunk? Valve cover art has been popular throughout the development of the internal combustion engine. It is the best way to advertise and present one's name and business image. They are not all that difficult to make. The cost is in the pattern and for that reason, I would guess the Kameari type cover is squared. However, if you think about it, the placement of the oil spout does not have to be located at the front and the graphics could be anything.

    But now that we are talking about it, I know people who are looking for Nissan 2000 OHC, Bob Sharp Racing, and I'll have to ask Her Majesty if she would like to sport a Kameari cover. She might like that. If anyone wants to part with a 2000 OHC or BSR cover, PM me.
    Enjoy the Ride
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    Quote Originally Posted by texasz
    Any real reason for it being so squared off compaired to the stock/original valve covers?
    Yes, its to make more space for those "BIG" cams that we sometimes hear people talking about........









    26th-Z probably touched on the closest reason to the truth. Curves cost more money. Straighter lines are cheaper.

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    Default Paging Mr Carl Beck......

    Carl,
    I asked for your response to some questions I put to you. You seem to be ignoring this request so far.

    Do I take it that you have no answer?

    This topic is close to my heart. I think the Nissan 'L-Gata' engine was a great basic engine design that is pretty much World-renowned for its flexibility, reliability and durability - let alone the fact that it was able to be turned into a race winner. But ( just like the situation with the design of the S30-series Z ) almost nobody knows the name of the key designer behind it, and its true heritage and evolution is distorted by rogue data and advertising copy. I think this is a great shame.

    I'm going to embark on starting a new thread topic in the near future, as I think this subject warrants it. But I also think that the points raised in this thread need to be settled before it goes into the archives and gets used as reference material in the future.

    So Carl - I'm asking you politely - I think it requires further comment from you. In my opinion, that's what these forums are for.

    Alan T.

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    Well, we know what the next piece of "Club Merchandise" should be!
    Will
    A Z is beautiful from any angle, I just happen to prefer to view from the drivers' seat!

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    for what it's worth this is my "NISSAN" valve cover from my L28 with a P90 head. As far as I know the engine was not imported but cannot be sure. I've seen this valve cover before but with a slightly BIGGER "NISSAN" stamped onto it.
    http://www.classiczcars.com/photopos...camera_046.jpg sorry it's upside down can't take photos of it at the moment it's at the engine head shop.

    I have enjoyed reading this thread for the most part.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HS30-H
    Carl,
    I asked for your response to some questions I put to you. You seem to be ignoring this request so far.

    Do I take it that you have no answer?
    Alan T.
    Hello Alan:
    Actually I have now written about five answers...just haven't posted them. A couple of them just made me feel better after writing them, but they were ah... too... bluntly honest .. to send. Most would have seen them as "mean";-)

    A couple of them were as honest, as I could be and still not be outright flames... but then I thought the chances of getting you to settle down and hold an actual "discussion" were pretty low, you seem to so enjoy provocative debate and wining the debate becomes way to important to you. Then that turns into Posts and Replies that get way to complex and way to long.. and our fellow forum members grown in pain..

    The truth is Alan, there are many subject area's I'd love to "discuss" with you. But you simply must quit assigning evil intent to my statements, quite calling me a lair and understand that I really attempt to mislead no one.

    The ZCCA Historian, Dan Banks and I have spent hundreds of hours collecting source materials and doing extensive research on most subjects we write on. Where necessary or appropriate we reference them so others can read them for themselves. (I mention Dan because he has been a huge source of information related to the history of Nissan Motors as well as the Z Car).

    I will say up front that I do not believe that just because a magazine article or book is written in Japanese, or written by a Japanese writer - it somehow is to be given more credence than anything written English. I think we both have enough experience in that regard to know how badly mangled an interview or writing can get before it gets to print. I know that you and I can read the same article and come away with completely different perspectives of what was written.

    Secondly, since neither I not the vast majority of our fellow forum members can read the Japanese sources you site as references - to decide for themselves the true quality, content and meaning of the wittings in total.. I can't really respond to your interpretation or possible misinterpretation of them. if you read your source materials like you read my Posts... well....

    All that said - I'll try one more time... next Post....

    kind regards,
    Carl B.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HS30-H
    ....snipped...There it is. Total nonsense backed up with unrelated and irrelevant data. I find it distressing to think that people will read what you have written and treat it as historical fact, just because it comes from the keyboard of a known and trusted 'scholar' on the subject of the Z. They are being misled.

    .....snipped...

    I'll just finish off by posting this picture, which depicts the L20 six as fitted to the 1965 H130 'Cedric Special Six'. THIS engine was the true evolutionary ancestor of 'our' Nissan L-series engines:

    Alan T.
    Hello Alan:
    I don't believe I disputed that the old L20 may have been an "ancestor", just that it wasn't the parent.

    You and I, as usual, simply have a different perspective on this. In this case, I believe you are saying / insisting that the Nissan L20, as pictured by you circa 65/66, simply evolved into the L20A, you feel that they are one and the same and purely a Nissan design. You also seem to believe that the more modern L16, did not precede the more modern and differently named L20A in both development and production, or rather that since you believe that the L20/L20A are one and the same, then the L16 and L24 are simply detail changes to the 63/68 L20.

    I on the other hand see evolution as a distinct series of small incremental changes, leading from the origin to the current example. I see no such incremental progression between the L20 and L20A. Rather I see a completely different engine, unlike any that Nissan had ever produced before - pop up out of nowhere - with the appearance of the L16 in late 67 as specified for the PL510 in 1966.

    I do see clear incremental evolution from the L16 to the L13 (same block de-stroked & head) and then to the L24 (same block/head with two additional cylinders) and L20A (same block design / head design cast in a smaller bore, and in some cases with small main bearing supports) all sharing a visibly common design, quite different from the Mercedes looking L20 of 65.

    If your perspective is that the old Nissan L20 is the new L20A, with "minor detail" changes... then your time frames must be correct, and the new L20A engine was around for five or six years before the Z.

    If my perspective that the L16 was a clean slate design, with collaboration between Nissan and former Prince engineers is correct.. Then a completely new block was designed and cast, a completely new cylinder head with associated combustion chambers were designed and cast, a completely new valve train was designed etc etc - then the L24 was indeed evolved from the L16. In this case I do clearly see the small incremental changes that represent the evolution of a design. That new design however starts with the L16.

    How much change has to take place in one step - before the evolution of an old design is completely replaced with a new stating point? We simply differ on the answer to that question.

    Just as many view the evolutionary path from the Fairlady roadsters, to the Silvia, then to the Goertz Nissan 2000/Yamaha A550X and ending at the Z Car; I suppose they would view your perspective as correct. I however belive that the L16 was as completely revolutionary within Nissan Motors, as the Z Car was itself. About the only thing the Z and the L16 have in common with the Fairlady Roadsters and the old M/B style L20 - is the name of the company that produced them all.

    If you tell me that the engineer that designed Nissan's original L20 circa 63 (did you say), is the same person that designed L20A... then I would tell you that the metamorphosis (caterpillar to butterfly) in the design took place in his mind, but not in the physical world. I would hold that it was indeed a second clean slate design, not a further evolution of the first and that the L16 preceded the L24/L20A. The L13/16 and/or the L20A/24 could very well represent the evolution of the knowledge and experience the Design Engineer possessed.

    It may be all perspective and perception, but I believe that to understand where the Datsun 240-Z came from, and why it became so hugely successful - one has to look at the difference between evolution and revolution.

    I believe that it was revolution, and that was driven by Mr. K in America, Nissan Motors need to increase production by increasing Export Sales, the merger with Prince Motors and the restructuring of the in-house design department - all of which converged at Nissan in the 65/66 time frame and resulted in the creation of something totally new for Nissan. The first outcome of that revolution in Design and Engineering related to new engines was the U20, followed by the L16 in the PL510, and then the L24/L20A.

    As I said, I know we see things quite differently - I would sincerely encourage you to simply tell the story from your perspective of the subject, and I'll hope we can conduct a reasonable discussion.


    regards,
    Carl B.
    BTW - If anyone following this thread doesn't already have a copy of Brian Longs translation from the original Japanese, of "HOW I DEVELOPED DATSUN 240-Z STYLING", written by Mr. Matsuo... just send me an e-mail at beck@becksystems.com and I'll loan you my copy. (in MS-Word format).

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    Carl,
    Thanks for finally responding ( look what it took to get you to the table again ), and thanks for the free character assessment. I'll add it to my collection.

    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Beck
    The ZCCA Historian, Dan Banks and I have spent hundreds of hours collecting source materials and doing extensive research on most subjects we write on. Where necessary or appropriate we reference them so others can read them for themselves. (I mention Dan because he has been a huge source of information related to the history of Nissan Motors as well as the Z Car).
    Puzzlingly ( considering the subject is a Japanese car ) I don't see much in the way of Japanese sources in your bibliographies, either at zhome.com or here on classiczcars.com when you mention your 'sources'.

    Granted the language problem is a bit of a hindrance, but it appears to me ( with my "warped agenda" ) that you positively avoid Japanese data unless it backs up what you already believe. My personal experience is that I learned far more about the subject from Japanese sources than I did from English language sources, with one of the most important lessons being a sense of perspective on a Japanese industrial product.

    Wouldn't you expect a scholar of ancient Greece to learn a little about what was written in the ancient Greek language? Perhaps an extreme example - but do you take my point? I think this is not exactly rocket science, but it may be anathema to somebody who keeps calling the S30-series Z an "American Car, Made In Japan" ( that's a high-mileage quote these days, and I've put some miles on it myself ) and somebody who appears to pay more attention to sales jingles and advertising copy than the voices of the blue collar guys.

    Dan Banks - as far as I can tell through my contact with him - seems to me to be far more open-minded about the Japanese side of the story than you are, and perhaps a little more pragmatic. He certainly seems to respect Japanese source material, and I don't see that with you. But what do I know?

    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Beck
    I will say up front that I do not believe that just because a magazine article or book is written in Japanese, or written by a Japanese writer - it somehow is to be given more credence than anything written English.
    Maybe so ( and by the same token, just because it is written in English doesn't mean it is automatically correct ), but have you actually seen the articles / books that I have referenced in this thread? You appear to be damning or discounting them without even having knowledge of what they contain. In the case of the interview with Mr Hiroshi Iida ( the chief design engineer of the Nissan L-Series engine ) that would appear to be folly in the extreme. Where else are you expecting to see an interview with the man? If you want to know what is written in the piece ( which seems a good place to start if you want to give it "credence", or to discredit it ) then you will have to have it translated for you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Beck
    I don't believe I disputed that the old L20 may have been an "ancestor", just that it wasn't the parent.
    As far as I could tell, you were spending time trying to make a direct link to Prince. Viz:

    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Beck
    .....Actually the Prince G7 of 1961 looks amazingly like the Nissan L20 of 1966.
    .....and that's how you set out your stall. "1966" comes out of nowhere, and the Prince G7 is implied to have a direct engineering link with the L16 ( and therefore the L24 ). It does not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Beck
    You and I, as usual, simply have a different perspective on this. In this case, I believe you are saying / insisting that the Nissan L20, as pictured by you circa 65/66, simply evolved into the L20A, you feel that they are one and the same and purely a Nissan design. You also seem to believe that the more modern L16, did not precede the more modern and differently named L20A in both development and production, or rather that since you believe that the L20/L20A are one and the same, then the L16 and L24 are simply detail changes to the 63/68 L20.
    Carl, my "perspective" comes from reading the words of Mr Hiroshi Iida - the chief designer / engineer of Nissan's 'L-Gata' engine. I didn't have any kind of 'immaculate conception' and make anything up on my own. This is not my truth - it is the truth of the man that was responsible for the engine's creation.

    You seem to be setting great store by the difference between the 'L20' and the 'L20A' - almost to the extent of avoiding the idea that they are directly related. This is of course not historically accurate, and the L20A is recognised in Japan as an update to the basic L20 ( first ) design of "L-Gata Module" ( more on that later - maybe in its own thread ).

    You draw a line between the two, and it would appear that ( from other things you have written ) the main purpose of this is to delineate between the L24 and anything that might threaten its reputation as 'the' Z engine. That would appear to be why you wanted to deny that the L20 was slated for the S30-series Z before the L24 ( misinterpreting Matsuo ). You are it seems always in denial that the S30-series Z was a family of cars from the drawing board. The fact that the engineers at Nissan - headed by Hiroshi Iida on the 'L-Gata Module" - were also aware that they were designing a family of engines seems fitting answer to you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Beck
    ......I see no such incremental progression between the L20 and L20A. Rather I see a completely different engine, unlike any that Nissan had ever produced before - pop up out of nowhere - with the appearance of the L16 in late 67 as specified for the PL510 in 1966.
    With all due respect to you Carl, this is complete bullsh*t - and I wonder if you would be bold enough to stand in front of Hiroshi Iida and say such a thing. I'm not speaking for him - but I have to wonder whether he would believe you knew anything about the 'L-Gata Module' and the design brief that he and his team had been given in November 1964. Since he and his team designed the L20, the L20A and the L13 / L14 / L16 - I'd have to wonder what he would say to you......

    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Beck
    I do see clear incremental evolution from the L16 to the L13 (same block de-stroked & head)............
    There you are - doing it again. The L13 was designed at the same time as the L16! WHY are you implying that the L16 came before the L13? The only reason I can think of ( stop me if you've heard this one before ) is because it fits in more snugly with your preconception that the Export market was leading all design and engineering at that time. It was not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Beck
    .....and then to the L24 (same block/head with two additional cylinders) and L20A (same block design / head design cast in a smaller bore, and in some cases with small main bearing supports) all sharing a visibly common design, quite different from the Mercedes looking L20 of 65.
    And here once again. You seem to pay no heed to the fact that the 'L-Gata Module' was purposely given a bore spacing that would accommodate a large percentage of increase in piston diameter, and a deep enough block casting to accommodate a wide range of strokes. THIS is the whole point about the evolutionary link between the first production L-Gata engine and all the others that followed.

    And HOW can you state that the 1965 L20 ( as used on the H130 ) was so radically different in design and layout to the L13/L16/L20A/L24???!!! And especially to re-state that old 'Mercedes' chestnut - its a joke! Anybody who looks at that H130 L20 will see its obvious similarities to the L20A and L24 and indeed all the other L-series engines. In fact, the only significant visual difference would be the movement of the thermostat housing. Don't cite the cam cover attachment difference, as the first L20As also had this type. Sorry - but I don't know where you are coming from.

    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Beck
    If my perspective that the L16 was a clean slate design, with collaboration between Nissan and former Prince engineers is correct..
    But it is clear - you are NOT correct. In no way can the L16 ( there you go - citing the L16 as though it is of prime significance again ) be called a "clean slate" design. The 'L-Gata Module' was designed before Prince engineers were on the scene at Nissan, and the L16 is simply one of a family of engines that evolved from that 'Module'.

    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Beck
    I however belive that the L16 was as completely revolutionary within Nissan Motors, as the Z Car was itself.
    L16 on its own again. A reminder of your perspective.

    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Beck
    ......I believe that to understand where the Datsun 240-Z came from, and why it became so hugely successful - one has to look at the difference between evolution and revolution.
    And I believe that to understand where the '240Z' came from - and why so much of its design turned out like it did - one has to look at the WHOLE story. That includes thinking of the S30-series Z as a family of models from the drawing board, right through the engineering and production process and on to the showroom floor. Ignore ANY one of those models ( or more - as you are known to do in the case of the Fairlady Z and Fairlady Z-L ) and you will blind yourself to the whole story. This is the same mistake as ignoring Hiroshi Iida's 'L-Gata Module' and focussing primarily on the L16 as some kind of 'Year Zero' marker. Big mistake.

    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Beck
    BTW - If anyone following this thread doesn't already have a copy of Brian Longs translation from the original Japanese, of "HOW I DEVELOPED DATSUN 240-Z STYLING", written by Mr. Matsuo... just send me an e-mail at beck@becksystems.com and I'll loan you my copy. (in MS-Word format).
    And anybody who receives the translation might like to note that my translation of the original chapter title - written by Matsuo san - ( "Shodai Z Design Kaihatsu Shuki" ) would read: "Original Z Design Development Essay" - which might give you a little inkling about 'perspective'..........Matsuo san was writing about the whole Z family - as seen at the 1969 Tokyo Auto Show - and not just the 'Datsun 240-Z'.

    Alan T.

    PS - By way of a reminder, here's that photo of the L20 engine - as used in the H130-model Nissan 'Cedric Special Six' in 1965. Does anybody seriously think that this does not have a direct evolutionary link to 'our' L20A, L24, L26 and L28 engines?
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    I am with Alan on this one. Here in NZ we have a lot of JDM imports so we have S30,S31, skylines, etc plus we had a Prince assemble plant back in the day so we have some NZ new Prince Gloria's, then Skyline GTB both badged as Prince and later the new owner Nissan. There are few of the Super Six here also. And having seen under a few of the engine bays you can't ignore that these engines were the step stone to the L20a/L24/L16 = L series line of engines. I think you are kidding your self if you thing the L16 was a clean sheet of paper and the that 6 cylinder was not designed at the same time - remember that Nissan had the 2+2 shape almost sorted before the 2 seater that was released in the Export Markets as the 240z yet we did not see this for another 4 years. So I could be said that Nissan did the same with the L6 - designed and complete at the same time as the first L4 were released.

    Also if you think the L16 was a clean sheet then you must also have to think that the Z20/Z22/Z24 were a clean sheet (so therefore the L20B) as these differ from the original L4 in height and cross flow (except the L20B) but these engines were an evolution from the earlier L13/L14/L16/L18 designs. So with this in mind and looking at the picture Alan has provided you can clearly see the same principles in work when looking at this early L20 and comparing this to the L20a/L24/L26/L28's that were to follow. If you have seen any of these early engine in the flesh you know what I am talking about.

    We also have a number of different market cars that have been imported over the years (talking just the S30 series now but this does include other models/makes) we have Fairlady Z (S30 both L and S version), Fairlady Z (S31 both L and S version), Australian spec 240z/260z, JDM Fairlady 240z (aka the ZG), UK/Europe spec 240z/260z, US spec LHD 240z/260z and 280z. The list goes on. So here I think of the S30 as the family not just the 240z that was released to the US in 69. If you think like that then you fall under the "US we are the world mentality" which is just wrong.
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    here's an interesting valve cover up on Yahoo Japan.

    http://page7.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/g43294271
    Miles

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    Looks like someone modified that one.
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    Looks like somone glued on a "datsun" logo over the nissan part of nissan ohc.
    '77 280z

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    Quote Originally Posted by olie05
    Looks like somone glued on a "datsun" logo over the nissan part of nissan ohc.
    and painted/powdercoated it "Pimp My Ride Red"

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    I see someone mentioned the L4 rocker cover that had "Datsun OHC" on it - I have seen these here in NZ, I think I might have one. I know that I have one that has "Datsun 1600 OHC" next time I visit the garage were this is stored I will take a pic and post it here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Beck
    I do see clear incremental evolution from the L16 to the L13 (same block de-stroked & head) and then to the L24 (same block/head with two additional cylinders) and L20A (same block design / head design cast in a smaller bore, and in some cases with small main bearing supports) all sharing a visibly common design, quite different from the Mercedes looking L20 of 65.
    Re the comment on the L20A with the small main bearing supports - I know that from 79 onwards the L20aE (ie EFI) used the smaller big end journals and rods much like the L24E you got in the USA for the Maxima - again Nissan using the same rods in the L20a and L24 like they did in the earlier engines, difference stroke and bore. These smaller journaled cranks/rods are common as mud here in NZ, these can be found in a number of JDM imports with the L20E and the L20ET (to be correct that should read L20aE and L20aET).


    Alan/Carl others can anyone shed some light on the Mercedes comment - I know it has been discussed before but I have been told that Nissan paid Mercedes a license fee much like Mikuni did when it licensed its carb technology from Solex (they then evolved the product to a number of different carbs designs - I guess much like Engine builders do aka the Nissan A Series engine was a licensed copy of the Austin OHV engine that was improved on by Nissan)

    Has anyone else heard that an RB torque plate can be bolted onto a L6 block? I have been told that if your engine builder does not have a torque plate for your L6 boring then ask them if they an RB unit as it will work also
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    Quote Originally Posted by NZeder
    Alan/Carl others can anyone shed some light on the Mercedes comment - I know it has been discussed before but I have been told that Nissan paid Mercedes a license fee much like Mikuni did when it licensed its carb technology from Solex..........
    As far as I understand it, the truth is that PMC ( Prince Motor Co. ) licensed some Mercedes-patented design details ( not a whole engine design ) for their 'G7' engine - which debuted in June 1963.

    Hiroshi Iida and his team at Nissan designed the new 'L-gata' engine 'module' during 1964 as a direct response to arch-competitor Toyota's new 'M' series OHC sixes. Iida himself admits to having been influenced by the Mercedes engine design, and says that they used this as a "reference". However, they did not license any Mercedes patents......

    I think it would be fair for us to expect Iida san and his team to have been influenced by the Prince 'G7' engine design details ( even if he is too proud to admit it ), but Prince was not merged with Nissan until well after the Nissan 'L-gata' engine module was designed and in production. There was no direct 'inheritance' of Mercedes-licensed patents transferring from Prince to Nissan in relation to the 'L-gata' module.

    We quite often see the history of the Nissan engine reported as a smooth sequence along the lines of 'Mercedes patents to Prince, and Prince taken over by Nissan' - but this is well wide of the mark. The situation was far more complex than that.

    Quote Originally Posted by NZeder
    Has anyone else heard that an RB torque plate can be bolted onto a L6 block? I have been told that if your engine builder does not have a torque plate for your L6 boring then ask them if they an RB unit as it will work also
    When Dr Shinichiro Sakurai and his largely ex-Prince team at Nissan were designing the new 'RB' engine module during 1982 & 1983, they purposely used the bore spacing and head bolt pattern of the 'L' series engine as part of the design. Sakurai has been quoted as saying that they wanted the 'RB' to be a worthy successor to the long and diverse history of the 'L' series. Higher management were pushing Sakurai and his team to drop the straight six and concentrate solely on 'V' configurations, but Sakurai and many of his team wanted to preserve the Prince / Nissan straight six lineage and history, and keep the straight six layout for the Skyline and Laurel models in particular.

    We can draw many parallels between the 'RB' module and the 'L' module. Both of them were designed specifically to accommodate both long and short strokes, and small and large bore sizings. Both were designed to accommodate the possibility of 'high' performance and more sedate uses.

    So yes, an RB torque plate can be used on an 'L' series six - and it is not just a happy accident.

    Alan T.

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    Alan,
    Thanks for clearing the air with regard to the L-series engine design. I am curious to know more. Where would one find information regarding the design history of the L-series engines as well as the RB-series engines?
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    Quote Originally Posted by daddz
    I am curious to know more. Where would one find information regarding the design history of the L-series engines as well as the RB-series engines?
    Hi daddz,
    I'm afraid the best sources of information about such subjects are almost always written in Japanese.......

    There have been a number of good articles on the L-series engine published in 'Nostalgic Hero' since it was first launched. 'Old Timer' magazine has had some good articles too. There was a really good one in 'Car' magazine a few years back, and there have also been a couple of good books covering the subject too.

    Period Japanese magazine and press articles from the Sixties and Seventies are also a good source ( I have quoted from them in this thread ) and give a nice glimpse of the zeitgeist of the times. Japanese car magazines of that period were ( I find ) quite intellectual, and covered subjects in great depth. Publications such as 'Car Graphic', 'Motor Fan', 'Play Drive', 'Auto Technic'. 'Autosport', 'Motor Magazine' etc etc are a mine of useful and interesting data.

    As for the 'RB' engine - well, we are talking about the mid 1980s here and articles from contemporary books on the Skyline range in particular are a great source, but so are most of the mags mentioned above.

    To be honest, you have to collect a lot of reference material and piece it together for yourself. That means getting accurate technical translations too I'm afraid.





    If all that seems like too much bother, you could always take the option of believing that 'Year Zero' for Nissan's L-series engines was when Katayama 'designed' the L16 over the telephone, and that the L24 was just an L16 with two extra pots. It certainly saves a whole lot of hard work.........



    Oh yeah, and then there's this kind of attitude to contend with:

    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Beck
    I will say up front that I do not believe that just because a magazine article or book is written in Japanese, or written by a Japanese writer - it somehow is to be given more credence than anything written English.I think we both have enough experience in that regard to know how badly mangled an interview or writing can get before it gets to print. I know that you and I can read the same article and come away with completely different perspectives of what was written.

    Secondly, since neither I not the vast majority of our fellow forum members can read the Japanese sources you site as references - to decide for themselves the true quality, content and meaning of the wittings in total.. I can't really respond to your interpretation or possible misinterpretation of them. if you read your source materials like you read my Posts... well....
    So remember, be careful not to misinterpret the "quality, content and meaning" of those Japanese "wittings"......

    Alan T.

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    Alan,

    Thanks for info on the Mercedes-patented design/License. I thought it was interesting how the RB torque plate was the same - that info helps explain why. It was a shame Nissan dropped the IL6 (In-Line 6) as no doubt a lot of Skyline enthusiast will agree that the current Skyline R35, with the V6 is just not the same as the R34 and those before it.

    Just a personal thing I guess but I do love the sound of a IL6 on song. I guess this is why I like S30 family of cars, even Dad's L20aE powered Fairlady (now that it has my old headers and exhaust on) sound great.

    Shame Dr Shinichiro Sakurai and his team did not make it so we could put an RB head on the our L6 bottom ends water and oil paths the same also
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    Alan,
    Thanks for the response. My next mountain to climb is learning to read and write Japanese although this promises to be a long road as there are three(?) alphabets. My Japanese history course is winding down and it has proven to be a real charmer (about 400pp of reading per week as of late) and it has sparked yet more interest so now it makes sense to learn the language.

    While reading this thread it came to mind the design of the LY28 engine (cylinder head)? Have you any information on the history of this unique variation on the L-series. A Japanese friend of mine recently allowed me to see some pictures that he took of a rare Silvia (S11) Rally car that maybe only four or so were produced and if I recall they too used the LY type cylinder head?

    Thanks as always.
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    Quote Originally Posted by daddz
    Thanks for the response. My next mountain to climb is learning to read and write Japanese although this promises to be a long road as there are three(?) alphabets.
    Learning Japanese is a lifetime's work - even for the Japanese. One of the doubtful joys being that - even if you become fairly proficient at spoken Japanese - you will always come across Japanese people who tell you that you don't really understand what you are saying, "because you are not Japanese......".
    I've never tried saying that about the English language - but one day I might.

    Quote Originally Posted by daddz
    While reading this thread it came to mind the design of the LY28 engine (cylinder head)? Have you any information on the history of this unique variation on the L-series. A Japanese friend of mine recently allowed me to see some pictures that he took of a rare Silvia (S11) Rally car that maybe only four or so were produced and if I recall they too used the LY type cylinder head?
    No, the 'LY' was never fitted to a Works car other than the S30-series Z. I wonder if you are getting it confused with the FJ24 engine that was used in the BS110 '240RS' model?

    I have a fair bit of 'LY'-specific information and data, and it would probably be easier to send this direct to you rather than add it to this thread - which started out talking about rocker covers, and grew like topsy.

    Alan T.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HS30-H
    Learning Japanese is a lifetime's work - even for the Japanese. One of the doubtful joys being that - even if you become fairly proficient at spoken Japanese - you will always come across Japanese people who tell you that you don't really understand what you are saying, "because you are not Japanese......".
    Alan T.
    Oh Alan, how true! Even I have been told that . . . . and I'm Japanese . . . Japanese-American, that is . . . . Ha Ha Ha. . . . .
    Miles

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    Registered User daddz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HS30-H
    Learning Japanese is a lifetime's work - even for the Japanese. One of the doubtful joys being that - even if you become fairly proficient at spoken Japanese - you will always come across Japanese people who tell you that you don't really understand what you are saying, "because you are not Japanese......".
    I've never tried saying that about the English language - but one day I might.



    No, the 'LY' was never fitted to a Works car other than the S30-series Z. I wonder if you are getting it confused with the FJ24 engine that was used in the BS110 '240RS' model?

    I have a fair bit of 'LY'-specific information and data, and it would probably be easier to send this direct to you rather than add it to this thread - which started out talking about rocker covers, and grew like topsy.

    Alan T.
    Too funny regarding the language comment. I wouldn't dare try that statement here in the United States.

    In fact I was getting the 'LY' confused with the FJ24 engine as used in the BS110 '240RS' model. I think I meant to say that there is a four cylinder engine (possibly the LZ series) which has a valve cover similar in design to the LY's and as it was told to me was designed by the same person?

    I am not sure if you can confirm that or not but nonetheless it would be interesting to know.
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    According to a heated discussion going on in a thread about someones 240K, one of the members there states that there was a L6 DATSUN OHC valve cover:

    Quote Originally Posted by aarc240
    Part number 13264-E3100 is a DATSUN cam cover for an L24. Part number 13264-P0100 is a NISSAN cam cover for an L24 or L26. At least that was what they were when I had to replace a cover back in '72 after a cam gear bolt came loose (and initially got the wrong, E3100, cover).
    Can anybody verify this via the parts cd, or microfiche etc?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor Laury
    I saw a JDM (aftermarket I think) cover with the Large block lettered NISSAN. But this cover was plastic. Les Cannaday had it in his shop and was very excited over it. As to why he was so jazzed, I didn't catch the story.
    Was the plastic valve cover like this one Victor?
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    1970 240Z - 7/70 HLS30-07273
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    Quote Originally Posted by Go240Zags
    Was the plastic valve cover like this one Victor?
    http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Datsu...QQcmdZViewItem
    Is there any advantage to getting one of those for a L24 block, or is that something mainly just for looks?

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    The only advantage would go to the seller as he puts the buyers money in his pocket.
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    Default NISSAN Valve Cover Differences

    Hi Everyone,
    I find it interesting that there are two versions of the NISSAN cover. I recently sent one to a friend in the US. I kept the one that I'm half finished polishing with the larger FONT.

    Is anyone else interested in such covers?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gav240z
    Hi Everyone,
    I find it interesting that there are two versions of the NISSAN cover. I recently sent one to a friend in the US. I kept the one that I'm half finished polishing with the larger FONT.

    Is anyone else interested in such covers?
    So there is a big NISSAN font cover and a big, big NISSAN font cover.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Camouflage
    According to a heated discussion going on in a thread about someones 240K, one of the members there states that there was a L6 DATSUN OHC valve cover:



    Can anybody verify this via the parts cd, or microfiche etc?
    The 13264-E3100 cover says 'Nissan 2400' and the 13264-P0100 says 'Nissan OHC' at least in the North American catalog. Since we didn't get the L20A here, I'm also curious as to what it said on the valve cover. I remember something about that in a thread sometime back, but I can't seem to find it. Maybe Alan T. would know.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sblake01
    The 13264-E3100 cover says 'Nissan 2400' and the 13264-P0100 says 'Nissan OHC' at least in the North American catalog. Since we didn't get the L20A here, I'm also curious as to what it said on the valve cover. I remember something about that in a thread sometime back, but I can't seem to find it. Maybe Alan T. would know.
    Actually, it was in this very same thread, on page two. Here's a link to the picture, they apparently did say "Nissan 2000 OHC".

    http://classiczcars.com/forums/attac...1&d=1143315711
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    Default Hello Alan

    Hi Alan,great informations,they are very interesting.

    I just want to tell everybody here,Alan's explanation is perfect.I always get frustrated with my poor english.What a good thing is Alan can explain perfectly which I want to say in english.His understanding of Japanese Z community and Japanese books and more are just like ordinary Japanese people,like me and my friends.

    And I must say this,I and my all Japanese Z friends are so impressed with Alan's amazing knowledge about hole Z, not only Z, skyline and Prince etc...
    I have never seen such a amazing knowledge in Japanese Z enthusiast.

    Thank you,

    kats

    P.S.Alan,I tried to send PM but it was rejected.Did you get my PM in your another adress?
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    Kats,
    Thank you very much indeed for your kind words.

    I have received your e-mail message, and will reply to it.



    Alan T.

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    Mike B
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    Default Has anyone seen this cover before?

    I've never seen this type of valve cover before, has anyone else? I assume it is aftermarket?

    -Mike
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    It's looks like another varation of the ones made by Kakimoto Racing mentioned earlier in this thread.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sblake01 View Post
    It's looks like another varation of the ones made by Kakimoto Racing mentioned earlier in this thread.
    Yeah, I guess I didn't read back far enough. There is a picture of one for a 260Z in this post.

    http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/s...0&postcount=44

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    Default Summary of Most OEM Cam Covers

    I think this pretty much sums up the OEM (not aftermarket or special mfg.) cam covers found on the L24, L26, and L28, except for the 'larger' large "NISSAN"....

    Anything else missing to your knowledge? Please let me know if so.

    Note: The paint details on these are not claimed to be original configurations in all cases. I took some creative liberties to suit my tastes. Your comments and suggestions are welcome. There are other pictures of cam covers in my gallery (see link below).

    Here's a group.....
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    Here's a closer look at each plus one on my car....
    Click image for larger version. 

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    See my Gallery .....
    http://www.classiczcars.com/photopos...00&ppuser=9676

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    John,
    Those valve covers are beautiful!

    You have given me some inspiration.
    Thanks,
    Fred

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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Beck View Post
    Hi Texasz (everyone)
    As far as we have been able to determine to date, the switch from the NISSAN 2400 OHC valve cover to the NISSAN OHC valve cover, at least here in North America, took place with the beginning of production of the 240-Z equipped with an A/T. That would make it around 09/70 at about HLS30 089xx. For a brief time cars past that VIN arrived with either one, but we have found none with production dates later than 10/70 to have been equipped with the "2400" type. All of the A/T cars seem to have had the NISSAN OHC valve covers.

    FWIW,
    Carl B.

    Clearwater, FL USA
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    I realize this is an old thread; however, it's very interesting. So from what Carl and others have been able to determine, there were only about 9000 NISSAN OHC 2400 valve covers manufactured (at least when you're talking about the North American market). That is not very many when you consider probably close to half of covers may not even exist any longer. I remember a couple of years ago, these valve covers in fair condition were selling on Ebay for only around $100.00. Recently, one sold for almost $200.00 on Ebay (see link below). Even in a bad economy, some 240Z parts still seem to rise in value.
    http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...K%3AMEWAX%3AIT
    Steve

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    Hi,
    I'm looking to buy an JDM big letter NISSAN valve cover.

    Did anyone how where I could find one of these.
    Any Condition.

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    On a late model 280ZX.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Camouflage View Post
    On a late model 280ZX.
    Not in the North American market......
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