My Datsun Spirit L28 Build.

[Zedyone_kenobi]

My great rally adventure in my Z would not be complete without a healthy dose of drivable HP. When I decided to rebuild my engine, I had originally planned on doing it myself. I have build up many engines, but none of the 'L' variety. I had vast experience with V8's, but the L was a bit different. And there were some finesse items I had read about in all the rebuild books. I called around and not many people had experience near me in doing high quality L series head work and I just did not want to trust my original L24 to anybody.

So I took this opportunity to call around and find out who was who when it came to rebuilding L series engines. I started with Rebello of course, and the was all to happy to build me a 2.7, but what he really wanted to build me was a stroker. After several calls to Rebello, I ended up having a great phone conversation with Diseazd. (you remember the one) Well as hard as he tried to talk me into building it myself, he also pointed me to give this guy name Eiji a call at Datsun spirit. Now I had seen www.datsunspirit.com before, and was never that impressed with his website, but I kept it saved. I gave Eiji a call, and immediately we had a great conversation with him doing quite a lot of listening and not much talking. Then he made some generalizations about what he thought I had said. And we agreed on two very important things that every customer/engine builder need to understand:

1) He understood exactly what I wanted out of my engine
2) He understood exactly what my budget was

With those two things firmly established, he set out to make a couple of options that would fit my needs. He took he time to write me some VERY long emails describing his suggestions and how they fit within my established plans. Each part he recommended (and more importantly many he did not recommend) kept me on the tract to have the EXACT engine I first described. I discovered very quickly that Eiji was not out to retire on the profit he would make on building me an engine. He was out to make me a happy customer.


The result:
We decided on an L28 versus modifying my original L24. Bang for the buck the L28 would be the choice for me.

Why: What I wanted was a completely drivable engine that had a big fat meaty midrange torque curve. I wanted it to have a healthy smooth idle and not be temperamental beast. It had to survive houston heat and run on 91 to 93 octane. I wanted the engine to make usable power up to 7000 rpm, but have so much mid range that you would rarely need to go there. Most of all, I wanted an engine that could be driven 300 miles to an event. Then rack up 1000 miles of vintage road rally work, then drive 300 miles home. I wanted peak reliability over peak power. We did not even talk HP numbers, as I really do not care. I wanted drivability and mid range. The HP can fall where it does. Makes me no difference if the car feels right. I always thought my L24 felt pretty good, so any healthy L28 will be great.

It began with this:
[IMG][/IMG]
N42 block standard bore.

Well from here the process began. Eiji did a meticulous job of cleaning and inspecting the bores. He found an issue with one of them. It had some pitting that could be seen by not felt after a light hone. I am sure some builders would have just let this go and never told the customer, but Eiji was not happy with this. He cleaned and inspected three more L28's he had, and all had issues. We then decided to look for some overbore pistons and then machine the block for these. Well no OEM overbore pistons were readily available. We made the decision to go with ROSS forged pistons sold by MSA.

[IMG][/IMG]

The block was prepared and the pistons were assembled onto a set of OEM L28 rods that were cleaned and checked for weight. Here is the block honed and with the pistons installed:

[IMG][/IMG]

I want to point something out at this time. Every single time Eiji was about to install something, he took the time to photograph the part in the bag (so you could read the NISSAN part label with part number), the part out of the back and the part being installed in the engine itself. It is this level of detail that separates Eiji from any other vendor I have ever even heard of. His commitment to keeping me involved with the engine build was staggering.

You may be asking about the head. Well we talked and for my purposes an N42 head was selected. This is the head after assembly but before installation:

[IMG][/IMG]

This is the head after installation:

[IMG][/IMG]

When Eiji installed the cam we had an issue with it touching the pistons, which may have stuck out a bit more than other flat tops, but he told me he had to get the cam reground a slight lower lift. That has been done and he spent a couple of days examining the wipe patterns of each lobe on the rockers:

[IMG][/IMG]

I needed custom lash pads for the new 274 cam, so he ordered them from Japan and installed them. Next he test filled the engine with oil and water and looked for leaks. Then he emailed me and asked what oil I wanted to use so he could buy some and prime the oil pump for me (I used Valvoline VR1 10w-30)

Latesly Eiji helped me find a good shipper. My engine is complete and ready to run. I will need to add my triple webers and a dizzy, but other than that, it is ready. Here she is ready to be shipped. (note 9 lb flywheel is not shown) :

[IMG][/IMG]

Note the cad plated NEW hardware on every connection in the engine. Eiji used NEW NISSAN bolts, washers, nuts, etc throughout and photo documented every single time he measured anything.

I honestly feel better knowing he built this engine than if I had built it. I have never seen such attention to detail and caring about what MY opinion was.

I have only included a few of my pictures. But he set up a photo bucket account for my build if you want to take a look: It is amazingly thorough:

http://s905.photobucket.com/albums/a...L28/?start=all

I am crazy excited to see this thing and start bolting on parts to it. I will put on my polished valve cover when it gets here, but I an extremely happy customer. I will document all my installation in this thread, and I will link this thread to my master TEXAS 1000 vintage rally thread.

Hope you enjoyed the read!

[Diseazd]

Sounds like a story book tale with a happy ending!

[26th-Z]

Best of luck with the engine. I have known Eiji for years and I'm not surprised with your praise. Love your valve cover. Polish off the raised lettering :-)

[Travel'n Man]

Looks great - what block did you use and did you change out the cam? I believe anybody doing this should not get caught up in those big horsepower numbers but more so on the torque numbers - be gentle with your break in and change out the oil frequently..............you're goin' to love this!

[Zedyone_kenobi]

N42/N42 block/head

Eiji said he has a recommended break in procedure, and assuredly I will follow that to the letter.

Yes, I am running a custom grind cam, but all I know now is the 274 number. That sounds more like a duration than a lift, but I will get all the specifics from Eiji with the engine. I am trusting him to pick a cam that will perform in the rpm band I am looking for.

[Lazeum]

It looks great!
I had to rebuild mine also with the same goals as yours in mind. I did it by myself at the end, it is a very long and precise process.

You're talking about budget, I'm surprised to see Ross forged pistons, Nissan hardware also on the engine. Those are pricey items. I went with ITM cast pistons & good 8.8 zinc plated bolts everywhere ($15 for hardware), the money went in the head instead.

I had a L28 10.5:1 cr, flat top pistons, N42 head and 274° cam by Schneider (MSA stage 2). The combo was full of fun but it was difficult to avoid ping

[Zedyone_kenobi]

I did not intend to use forged pistons, as I think it is overkill, but could not find the right oversize at the time.

Eiji chose to use OEM NISSAN bolts, which I was thrilled with of course. He has exceeded my expectations throughout this process.

Best part is I have spent well below what a Rebello stroker would have cost and I truly believe I got the perfect engine FOR ME. Which is all anybody can ask

[Blue]

Did you consider a P90 head? If so, what made you go with the N42?

[Travel'n Man]

Pistons look like flat tops.........hard to tell from the pics?

[Carl Beck]

The picture of the pistons in the block - look like flat tops to me.

[Lazeum]

The goal is to enjoy the process as well.
I know how much an engine could cost to build right. I'm glad if you're happy. Now you'll see how good the builder is with the miles you'll be able to do with it

One piece of advice, Change you first oil quick. I've run my engine 10 minutes first, flushed the oil & I removed the oil pan. I found a lot of metal chips in the pan afterwards.
I've done 400 miles so far, I expect to redo the same operation for next oil change.

[Zedyone_kenobi]

Blue I read many articles on the N42 and P90, and both seem to have great size valves but the P90 seems to have a larger combustion chamber. Eiji recommended an N42 to me, as he has an N42block/N42head combo in one of his current cars and was able to tell me exactly how it would work on todays fuels and ignitions.



The N42 is drilled for both carburated and injected engines, and that will bolt to my current triples manifold with ease. I have nothing against the P90 head, and really the biggest reason for going N42 was simply the availability of a good condition core to start the build.

Those are flattops? Did I say something to confuse that? I apologize if I did. They are ROSS forged flat tops from MSA.

[Diseazd]

The P90 or P79 head requires shaving .080 off the head, shimming the towers up .080 and using early L28 valves (.080) longer than the P79 valves to get C/R's up. It makes a lot of sense economically to use an N42 or N47 head .....it's a lot cheaper and almost as good.

[madkaw]

I'm a little surprised that the valves came close to the pistons- assuming the pistons are close to stock specs . That cam isn't very aggressive , but good thing he checked. Was the head milled much?
Looks like a runner.

[Zedyone_kenobi]

I will get all the details on cam duration and lift and machining specs when the engine is delivered. I can report back then. I am looking forward to what a healthy L28 sounds like with triples and a 9 lb flywheel!

[Diseazd]

Zedy....That is one beautiful motor.......can't wait to see how she runs. My 73 240Z fly cut pistons in an L24 block with early heads come out of the block .030 inches (too close for comfort), but I shave the pistons .020 inches for clearance....Eiji works it out with the cam grind. Interesting!

[GreenZZZ]

[IMG][/IMG]

Note the cad plated NEW hardware on every connection in the engine.

When I bring Nissan parts to my plating shop, they tell me that the plating is Gold Zinc, not Cadmium. Not sure what is correct. They put gold zinc on my parts and it looks great.

[Zedyone_kenobi]

Not sure it matters as long as its pretty and shiny!

[Gary in NJ]

Great write-up. How long until we get a run/ride report?

[Zedyone_kenobi]

Eiji said it will ship this saturday. So figure a week after that it will be in my garage on a stand getting the extras mounted to it.

[jonathanrussell]

I met Eiji today for the first time while traveling for business. Setting aside the fact that he seems like a great guy and is really a great asset for owners of these cars, he genuinely lives and breathes and loves these cars. He showed me your engine. You and I have similar engine build goals. Your engine looks even better in person, fyi.

[Diseazd]

Nice bolt kit eh Jonathan?

[Zedyone_kenobi]

I got some more information from Eiji about my engine.

Target compression with the ROSS pistons (86.5mm) is about 10.5:1 -- sounds very healthy to me.

Datsun Spirit custom grind cam: 275 Duration/.480 lift with 108 lobe centers -- no idea what that would do in a L motor, but a 480 lift in a V8 is pretty nice without being to extreme.

9 lb flywheel

Really looking forward to this now. If anybody has any doubts about working with Eiji, stop and just talk to him. A more personable engine builder I have never met.

[Ben's Z]

Is that flywheel a ground down steel or aluminum? Contemplating a lightened flywheel for the turbo motor swap.

[Zedyone_kenobi]

It is a chromoly steel flywheel designed to be 9 lbs.

NO idea who the vendor is. Eiji has a vendor he likes. Again, he is running it on two of his cars, so obviously if it was good enough for him, it is good enough for me.

[LeonV]

Should be a really fun engine, although I would have some concerns about detonation with such high compression. You might be ok on 93 octane, depending on your advance curve. Basically, you won't get the engine's entire potential without advance being around 32-35 degrees (empirically determined by dyno testing). The open chamber heads (e.g. N42) tend to be at the higher end of that spectrum.

If you have to dial down spark advance because of detonation or preignition, you're losing power. The cam and advance curve have to be really well-matched to the engine in order to take advantage of the high compression. Hopefully you don't run into issues, but don't be surprised if you do. Good luck!

[Zed Head]

Compare the duration and lift of his cam to a stock cam. It's probably why there was initially some piston-valve conflict. Cylinder pressures probably a little lower than if he had 10.5:1 on a stock cam.

Will there be dyno tuning?

[LeonV]

Compare the duration and lift of his cam to a stock cam. It's probably why there was initially some piston-valve conflict. Cylinder pressures probably a little lower than if he had 10.5:1 on a stock cam.

Will there be dyno tuning?

With the longer-duration cam, cylinder pressure at low rpm will probably be lower. However, at high rpm, cylinder pressure will definitely be higher, otherwise you wouldn't be making any more power over a stock cam!

What a longer-duration cam does is it moves the peak cylinder pressure point to a higher rpm (where intake inertia and exhaust scavenging effects are stronger). The longer duration and overlap periods make for more reversion at lower rpm, thus dropping cylinder pressure where there is not enough intake inertia or exhaust scavenging to keep the mixture flowing into the cylinder.

EDIT: This relates to detonation and preignition because of the shift of peak cylinder pressures. By shifting peak pressure to higher rpm, you give the mixture less time to self-ignite. This is why longer-duration cams can be effective in suppressing detonation when compared to a stock cam at the same compression ratio.

Higher compression increases cylinder pressures at all points and the longer-duration cam drops cylinder pressures at low rpm. If the superposition of these is not much higher than the stock cam/compression combo (at "low" rpm), then you might be okay. This is starting to get into the details but I wanted to shine some light as to the physics of the phenomenon we're discussing.

[Zed Head]

So, with 10.5:1 calculated CR would you rather have a long duration or a short duration cam, to avoid detonation?

[Zedyone_kenobi]

Yes, in the simplest of terms. But another thing critical thing to look at is lobe separation and valve overlap. A longer overlap will also decrease cylinder pressure since you spend more time with both valves open. This all has effects on when the cam is in the sweet spot.

To be honest, I have to go with what Eiji recommends on this. He thinks I will be fine on 93 octane. I have no reason NOT to trust his word.

I was planning on running 10-15 deg initial advance and 33 max as a starting point.


The only dyno tuning will be with me on the road with my O2 sensor. Better than seat of the pants, but I may look for a local dyno shop near me. Most guys at dyno shops near me only want to deal with late model muscle cars with EFI.

[Zed Head]

I was just trying to get off the simple high CR needs less timing theme and get in to some details.

A good tune on the dynamometer would be interesting after the seat of the pants, to see how good your seat is, and just for some good information on a Datsun Spirit motor. Seems like one session might be worthwhile, considering the investment. On the other hand, it would be money that could be spent elsewhere.

[Zedyone_kenobi]

Well I will definitely call around to try to find an hour or two of dyno time.

But I have to be honest with you. If my AFR come in spot on, and it drives fine, I will be hard pressed to care. Sure I may be leaving some power on the table, but if temp is good, AFR is good, power feels good, not sure it will matter to me. I cannot emphasize how much I want drivability over peak HP. I think dyno tuning can drive you crazy trying to track down that last few HP. I have a feeling I am going to be quite happy.

But my only worry is what LeonV said. 10.5 is quite a bit of squish. So we will see what happens.

I will say this...If I get it and it just feels weak and my AFR is spot on, I will want to know what is going on.

[madkaw]

For the small investment-compared to what he has spent-I would think it mandatory to spend the 150-250$ on dyno tune.
I learned so much about my motor in one 85$ session. All the timing talk gets verified on the dyno.

I was running too much advance according to the dyno. The last 3-4 degrees got me nothing for power, but probably benefits me on cruise considering I don't run a vacuum advance. I also learned that the butt dyno sucks and is very decieving. Like running SM needles on my car, when the stock would have made more power and used less fuel.

Once I get my Mikuni's dialed in I plan to make another trip to the dyno for comparison. My wideband should get me close, but these 200$ widebands aren't as good as the 2000$ ones they use at the dyno. The race car driver/dyno operator I worked with said that the widebands are frequently a point off, which could be leaving power on the table.

I was just trying to get off the simple high CR needs less timing theme and get in to some details.

A good tune on the dynamometer would be interesting after the seat of the pants, to see how good your seat is, and just for some good information on a Datsun Spirit motor. Seems like one session might be worthwhile, considering the investment. On the other hand, it would be money that could be spent elsewhere.

[Zedyone_kenobi]

Fair enough, I hear what your saying. It is not lack of outright desire to know, more of availability. Most of these new dyno shops around me only know EFI late model mustangs and camaros. I will try to find one though when it is all broken in.

[madkaw]

You make the comment about a lot of squish; makes me think that's why Eli went with reworking your cam instead of messing with the pistons. He was looking for that ideal squish zone for these motors and the piston to quench pad was there to help with detonation, so he opted to increase clearance in other ways.

Well I will definitely call around to try to find an hour or two of dyno time.

But I have to be honest with you. If my AFR come in spot on, and it drives fine, I will be hard pressed to care. Sure I may be leaving some power on the table, but if temp is good, AFR is good, power feels good, not sure it will matter to me. I cannot emphasize how much I want drivability over peak HP. I think dyno tuning can drive you crazy trying to track down that last few HP. I have a feeling I am going to be quite happy.

But my only worry is what LeonV said. 10.5 is quite a bit of squish. So we will see what happens.

I will say this...If I get it and it just feels weak and my AFR is spot on, I will want to know what is going on.

[madkaw]

I was just expressing my opinion, so please take it that way. I hear what your saying too, if your happy with the engine the way it runs, idles and performs and that's all the further you need to know then cool! I guess there is a point you get obsessed with this stuff-my wife thinks Im possessed.

Fair enough, I hear what your saying. It is not lack of outright desire to know, more of availability. Most of these new dyno shops around me only know EFI late model mustangs and camaros. I will try to find one though when it is all broken in.

[steve91tt]

I don't think you will have issues with detonation and you will still make lots of power if you control your AFR's and advance curve correctly. I have a L30 with an N42 head and 10.3:1 compression and it runs stong on 93 ocatane pump gas in Houston. Dave Rebello advised me to retard my advance curve until after 4500 rpm and keep my total advance around 31-33. I did this by playing with the springs on my Unilite distributor and the car pulls smooth and hard to redline. Your cam, porting, etc are likely different than mine but as you state above, I wouldn't worry about 10.5:1 CR on that motor if the engine builder says it will work.

[Zedyone_kenobi]

madkaw, I did not take any offense at all. You were just giving some very sound advice.

[Zed Head]

Did Eiji do port work on the head or is a stock N42 head?

Vicariously curious...

[LeonV]

So, with 10.5:1 calculated CR would you rather have a long duration or a short duration cam, to avoid detonation?

Longer.

You make the comment about a lot of squish; makes me think that's why Eli went with reworking your cam instead of messing with the pistons. He was looking for that ideal squish zone for these motors and the piston to quench pad was there to help with detonation, so he opted to increase clearance in other ways.

That does bring up a great point, however. How does such a mild cam manage to have valve-to-piston interference issues? I was very surprised when I saw this mentioned but refrained from posting. L-gatas have had much wilder cams put in (think .550" lift, over 300deg duration with 13-14:1 comp) without interference. That doesn't make sense to me, especially with relatively close lobe centers. I'm not saying he's wrong, but I would immediately think that the cam is timed incorrectly (too advanced) after having detected interference.

[madkaw]

Leon,
you see where I was going on that. That's a mild cam by any standards-it's also the cam I have in my car(at least close to it, Schneider 274). My head was shaved .12 and my block .005 and I have tons of room.

[Zedyone_kenobi]

I did some digging through Eiji's email. The cam was originally a .495 lift and 290 duration when it hit. He said the ROSS pistons were slightly different than the P79 pistons, an the .495 lift just barely touched.

also the cam was advanced 3 degrees on the cam sprocket (Nismo comp timing gear on cam) which leads some credence to LeonV's advanced statment, but I know as the cam sits in the car,

the IN is 105
the EX is 111
lobe separation is 108

Again, I am going to trust Eiji on this one.

[LeonV]

I did some digging through Eiji's email. The cam was originally a .495 lift and 290 duration when it hit. He said the ROSS pistons were slightly different than the P79 pistons, an the .495 lift just barely touched.

also the cam was advanced 3 degrees on the cam sprocket (Nismo comp timing gear on cam) which leads some credence to LeonV's advanced statment, but I know as the cam sits in the car,

the IN is 105
the EX is 111
lobe separation is 108

Again, I am going to trust Eiji on this one.

Aha, there's the problem! I wonder why he set it up advanced and not straight up. Besides that, if it was truly 3 degrees at the cam sprocket, then that's 6 degrees at the crank. Holy cow! Way too much cam advance (unless you want to kill top-end), of course the exhaust valve is going to hit.

Again, I'm not denying the builder's ability, just seems like a strange series of decisions. I would've set the cam straight-up, and then slowly advanced it to see where I run out of clearance. Then, when you dial in the cam, don't dial in more advance than it physically allows.

In the end, it probably doesn't make a huge difference to you and you'll enjoy the engine either way. I was just curious as that statement really threw me off.

[Zedyone_kenobi]

I can answer that

Eiji mentioned something about the cam alignment pin being slightly off but that he was able to compensate for it

[madkaw]

Well that cam was originally bigger then I thought. That's a lot of duration combined with .020 more piston height.
Why advance the cam?-maybe looking to get Stephen more torque down low, even though he has the pistons to handle the rpm---interesting

[Zedyone_kenobi]

Could be it. I was willing to sacrifice some top end for mid range punch. I told Eiji that many times. Peak HP numbers are not what I asked for but for a vintage road rally engine. He said these cams like to be advanced a little.

I am thinking madkaw is right. With this setup, I am getting exactly what I asked for. An engine making great mid range power.

[Travel'n Man]

Stephen -
Your build is very similar to mine and mine is perfect for me - If I wanted a high horsepower motor I would have built a stroker with a wild cam - much like you I really enjoy my powerband (I typically don't drive in the 6500 - 7500 rpm range). My cam powerband is 2500-5500 rpm's. I believe you will really enjoy the money spent once you get finalized and one the road. What oil are going to use in this engine? Are you going to use a different formula for break in - I believe I changed mine about 4 times in the first 1000 miles...........I have been using a custom blend that Dave Rebello recommended and has been working fine for me since my install.

[jonathanrussell]

Very nice. Ordered L24 and L28 kits. Thanks for the tip Guy.

[jonathanrussell]

It is a chromoly steel flywheel designed to be 9 lbs.

NO idea who the vendor is. Eiji has a vendor he likes. Again, he is running it on two of his cars, so obviously if it was good enough for him, it is good enough for me.

It looks to me like the Kameari flywheel....or very similar. Very nice.

[Diseazd]

Eiji and I installed it in his 1983 280ZX on my lift. It's light!

[Zedyone_kenobi]

wait... hold the phone



you have a lift...

[Zedyone_kenobi]

Thanks Mitchell. I definitely an anxious to see what a healthy L28 can do. No way it will feel anything like my L24 I currently have.
The wait during the build has not been bad, but the wait to get it here, will be terrible.

OH as far as oil goes, I ordered a case of Valvoline VR1 10w30 conventional oil.

the VR1 has high Zinc content.

As for flywheel pics, here it is.

[IMG][/IMG]

[Blue]

Is teflon tape on the 90degree water inlet a fix or just a preventative measure or to prevent different metals touching?

[Zedyone_kenobi]

Doesn't matter.
I am going to transfer the one I have on my current engine over

[Zedyone_kenobi]

[IMG][/IMG]

Well the engine will get here Thursday or Friday of this week!

It is on a pallet and I will have them load it into the back of my truck. The only question is, how the hell do I get it out of the back of the truck. I would think an engine hoist would not be able to lift something that high! HAHAAH

Oh man, always a problem!

[madkaw]

You shouldn't have any problem reaching and lifting the engine with the hoist. Extend the arm all the way out. Think about how high you lift an engine to get it out of the car!

[Blue]

Switch to "Think like an Egyptian" mode.

[Captain Obvious]

Switch to "Think like an Egyptian" mode.

10000 slaves with ropes?

[kitran01]

Last time I did a pallet from a truck, I used 2x4s and slid it down and had the truck on the street/curb with the pallet going to the driveway. So instead of the normal 3 foot or so, I had under 2 feet to drop. Also had a friend to maintain resistance so it wouldn't slide too fast. Also would help being on the street or curb, if your Hoist is just not high enough to reach, would give you an extra bit of room to grab it. G'luck.

[Zedyone_kenobi]

The engine has landed. Now the real fun begins.

But before I do, I have many pictures to take and vids to make. I would really like to document this and dedicate it all to my dad who passed away this year.

Pics for posterity:

[Mike B]

Looks nice, but why the red valve cover?

-Mike

[Zedyone_kenobi]

That is how Eiji does all his motors. He tells me that it is his tribute to the BRE racing colors for DATSUN. red/white/blue

I am debating on if I will leave it on or put on my polished valve cover.

[Travel'n Man]

Great dedication to your Dad! I'm sure he would like what you go goin' on with the engine!

[Mike B]

That is how Eiji does all his motors. He tells me that it is his tribute to the BRE racing colors for DATSUN. red/white/blue

I am debating on if I will leave it on or put on my polished valve cover.

Cool, I didn't know that. I will have to remind Eiji the next time I see him that the BRE 240Z had a black valve cover though. I would probably go with the polished valve cover if it were my car, especially with it being silver, but I suppose other people may like the contrast of the red.

-Mike

[Zedyone_kenobi]

Well do not go by what I said verbatim. What he actually said was Datsun racing colors. I may have mistyped BRE in there to the fact that I am a BRE fanboy. HAHA

But I love that magazine cover!

[Captain Obvious]

Engine looks beautiful.

Hey, do me a favor? As mundane as it sounds, would you please take a pic of the wooden support that your motor is sitting on once you lift the motor up and off?

I've got a buddy who's going to pull the motor out of his Z and stuff it to the back of his garage for maybe a year. I suggested he build a little wooden structure like what you've got there and put a set of heavy duty casters on the bottom so he could roll it around the garage if he needed to. Lift the motor out of the car and set down on a rolling frame made out of wood?

And then... I see your pic with something similar to what I suggested to him!!

Yeah, I know... "A talking frog? Now THAT'S cool!"

[Blue]

An engine mount can be used to hold engine with flywheel.

3 short head bolts and 1 long head bolt with iron pipe nipples and washers works fine.

[Zedyone_kenobi]

You know blue, it is just scary how you knew I was fighting with this just 2 hours ago. I was going to go get some spacers at the hardware store to do just this.

Update. Hood is off today and I am getting ready to get her up on jack stands. WAAAY up on jackstands. Pics to follow.

I will get those pics of the wooden block and I will take some measurements for you Captain.

[Captain Obvious]

I will get those pics of the wooden block and I will take some measurements for you Captain.

Thanks much. Doesn't have to be too detailed. He's pretty handy with his table saw. Just something that I can point him to and say "Something kinda like this".

I'm going to be helping with the engine pull, and I'm going to be lobbying for a pull with the tranny attached, so whatever "dolly" he comes up with will have to account for the trans as well, but in any event, the overall concept is still the same.

[Zed Head]

The Harbor Freight 1,000 lb moving dollies are about perfect for holding an engine. Add a few boards cut to width on the bottom, and a couple of 2x4s to hold it upright. The wheels on mine don't swivel as easily as they could but I've had an engine on one for about 8 months now, just fine. Easily rolled around and in to corners for storage.

I got the wooden one when they were only $18.

http://www.harborfreight.com/materia...g/dollies.html

[rocket280z]

Whatever you do, don't put small chokes on your carbs. I know you said you wanted a lot of low end power. Power below 2500rpm is the same or less than stock once you put in a cam with more than 260 duration in one of these motors. So the only improvement you will see with the new motor is above 2500rpm. The cam you have, with apropriate head work, can make peak power around 6400rpm. Many folks put too small of a choke/venturi on DCOE carbs, 32mm, and limit that to less than 6000rpm. 32mm is an adaquate size for a totally stock l24, and ok for l28. Really the most you can make with the 32mm chokes on there is around 160whp, as they're literally choking the engine. You can make that with the stock 280z engine properly set up(ITS engine). You should put, at least, a 34mm choke in your side draft carbs. That should get your peak power above 6000rpm peak power(around 180whp) and only sacrifice 5-10 ft/lbs at the wheels below 4000rpm, compared to the 32mm choke. A 36mm choke would likely get peak power(190+whp) to the 6300rpm area, trading another 5ft/lb in the lower end. The length of your intake system is important, you appear to be on the right track with the timing, and naturally you need to have a decent exhaust system. Anyway, make sure you are using at least 34mm chokes, on that engine. I think you will find it's the best use of the engine he built you. Enjoy!

[Travel'n Man]

Whatever you do, don't put small chokes on your carbs. I know you said you wanted a lot of low end power. Power below 2500rpm is the same or less than stock once you put in a cam with more than 260 duration in one of these motors. So the only improvement you will see with the new motor is above 2500rpm. The cam you have, with apropriate head work, can make peak power around 6400rpm. Many folks put too small of a choke/venturi on DCOE carbs, 32mm, and limit that to less than 6000rpm. 32mm is an adaquate size for a totally stock l24, and ok for l28. Really the most you can make with the 32mm chokes on there is around 160whp, as they're literally choking the engine. You can make that with the stock 280z engine properly set up(ITS engine). You should put, at least, a 34mm choke in your side draft carbs. That should get your peak power above 6000rpm peak power(around 180whp) and only sacrifice 5-10 ft/lbs at the wheels below 4000rpm, compared to the 32mm choke. A 36mm choke would likely get peak power(190+whp) to the 6300rpm area, trading another 5ft/lb in the lower end. The length of your intake system is important, you appear to be on the right track with the timing, and naturally you need to have a decent exhaust system. Anyway, make sure you are using at least 34mm chokes, on that engine. I think you will find it's the best use of the engine he built you. Enjoy!

I agree totally - Dave Rebello and I had a conversation last week and stated the exact same thing - I am currently looking for some 36mm venturi's to put on my 40 Mikuni's. No need to not tap on horsepower if it is there. If anybody has any 36's for Mikuni's send me a PM -

[Montezuma]

The Harbor Freight 1,000 lb moving dollies are about perfect for holding an engine. Add a few boards cut to width on the bottom, and a couple of 2x4s to hold it upright. The wheels on mine don't swivel as easily as they could but I've had an engine on one for about 8 months now, just fine. Easily rolled around and in to corners for storage.

I got the wooden one when they were only $18.

http://www.harborfreight.com/materia...g/dollies.html

This what I use for my motors as well. They work perfect.

[Lazeum]

For information regarding discussions about choke size in triple carbs.
I let you go over the topic in the following link.

40mm carbs with 36mm get almost no venturi effect whereas 45mm caarbs with 36mm venturi get some, making driveability better with 45mm.

[Zedyone_kenobi]

Well increasing the choke size will also decrease your throttle response. While the volume of air is unchanged, with a larger choke the air is moving slower through the intake. This effects fuel atomization and I would think transition from progression to main circuit.

I currently run 30mm chokes in my webers, and plan to use those when I bolt them up to my L28 N42 head. If I start running out of juice at the high end, I will make appropriate corrections. I have a wide band, so if I start richening up at the top end, I know I have reached a flow limit. I personally think it will be fine. I would rather have throttle response over max HP.

[Zedyone_kenobi]

Okay we got down to business last night.

I got the car up on jack stands and drained all the fluids. Then I drained the radiator, followed immediately by cussing and mopping up all the fluid that I completely overshot my bucket. 20 minutes of sweet smelling mopping later, I took pulled the radiator, and removed the alternator. Prior to doing all of this I took detailed photos and made drawings on the white board in the garage of where everything went. Naturally many sandwich baggies were used to collect parts, and a new bolt purchase list has been started to replace worn and tired looking nuts and bolts.

But on to the pics!

Before I removed anything:



As she sits now:


Old radiator. Debating if I should get it fixed or just source a new shiny aluminum one from MSA.



The "to be cleaned" parts counter:

[madkaw]

You know- if you plan on doing a big project like this you should try and get more organized

[olzed]

You know- if you plan on doing a big project like this you should try and get more organized

I agree. So untidy!!

[Zedyone_kenobi]

Well had to take a brake from car stuff for a couple of days, just found out that my wife and I are expecting for the second time!

We are 7.5 weeks in and we have an ultrasound of a lima bean! HA HA



So I am thrilled. Back to the less important topic of Datsun Z cars!

Made some headway last night. I disconnected the starter and all the water lines from the passenger side of the engine, after making diagrams of where the wires go and bagging and tagging all the bolts. Then I removed the slave cylinder and just left it dangling.

Next up was the distributor wiring, and then the carb fuel rail and the three webers. I managed to lose one of the springs for the carbs so I am going to order some replacements today.

Next up is the O2 sensor and the driveshaft, and intake manifold. After that, just mounts and pull that bad boy. THIS IS CRAZY FUN!







And now for the mystery. I found this on the floor after working on the passenger side of the engine. I am not sure what it is. It looks like a shim of some kind. Possibly from the slave cylinder? I do not really remember seeing it. Any ideas?



IF you have any ideas that would be great.

So the pull continues. I need to order some anciliaries today. New cap and rotor, new spark plugs, etc. After I get the engine out, I will have to start sanding and painting the engine bay. I mean you sort of have to do that when you have the engine out. I think it is a Datsun Law or something.

[madkaw]

That part is too rusty and nasty to come from your car- might check your other vehicles

[Zedyone_kenobi]

Well I managed to get most of the work done. The entire engine is unhooked. Motormount bolts removed, and exhaust taken out. I think I will use this opportunity to replace my old header. It has always had a bad height difference compared to my manifold. And I have thoroughly HATED my smog ports since day one. So my next set will NOT have a set of smog ports. So far the list of parts to be replaced is growing. And the to be cleaned table is also getting filled.

[Diseazd]

Zedy....Re the mystery piece. I'm pretty sure that is a shim for a fender or door. You loosen up the bolt holding the body part and slide those shims in from the side till the panel lines up. Then tighten the bolt or bolts. By the way.....isn't that radiator from an automatic tranny car? The outlets at the bottom are to cool the tranny fluid on an automatic car I believe.

[Montezuma]

In the aftermarket and later year cars the radiators were all the same. If you had an automatic you used the fluid lines, if it has a 4/5 speed then the outlets are plugged off. This a little experience/a little guess.

[Zedyone_kenobi]

Well I know the radiator is not original as it is a three core. The PO told me he upgraded the radiator when the dealer put in the AC

[d240zx2]

Lima bean. We called my grandson "Peanut" at that stage of his life. Congrats, Sir!

[Zedyone_kenobi]

Thanks Frank. Everything is poised for the 'big pull' this weekend.

I painted the front of the radiator support with POR chassis black. May need another coat. Not sure yet. I built another engine cradle out of wood and gave it some Z speed rated castors (that was a joke)

Pulled the center console, removed the speedo cable, disconnected the reverse indicator (question about that in a few) and broke lose all the bolts to the transmission cross member.

Nothing left to do but move the lift over and crank out the engine/tranny!

New engine cradle:



Plans dimensions for engine cradle.. You need a 2x6 8 feet long. You should cut it up into 2-18" boards, and 2-30" boards. One 30" board needs to have a notch cut in it 2.5" from one side. The notch should be 2.0" deep by 4.5" wide. Nail or screw the boards together with the 30" boards running length wise alongside the engine spaced 8.5" apart. This will sit on the oil pan flange nicely.

crude drawings of plans for cradle...


Before and after pictures of my painted front radiator support:
Before:


After:

[cygnusx1]

Very clean shop builds a very clean car! Awesome.

[Captain Obvious]

Thanks for the info on the cradle.

Forgot to ask before... Does the engine on that cradle have an oil pan installed?

[Zedyone_kenobi]

Yes it does. It slots neatly in between the cradle.

[Ben's Z]

Your fellow Z Enthusiast here on the northside of Houston is also 8-9 weeks in to being a father again. Congratulations to you! Not nearly as nervous about it this time. Watching this swap closely as I will be doing the same job here in the next 60 to 90 days. I am going to respray my engine bay while the old engine is out. I would feel obliged to take my shoes off before walking in your garage.

[Zedyone_kenobi]

I only ask people do that when I mop it first.! HAHAHAHA

Oh and Congrats. Yes, the second time is far more relaxing!

[Zedyone_kenobi]

My little one decided to give me a break and watch a movie, so I ran out to the garage to drop the tranny crossmember and pull the engine out.

It was actually quite easy. From start to finish, it only took 14 minutes. Chalk that one up to having the right tools.




and presto...



Now the new one sits and waits until I get the engine pay painted. They sit side by side like two acquaintances that share a common friend.

[Travel'n Man]

Great looking project - you will be surprised with the upgrade engine and triples - it will have much more torque and instant response once you get your triples dialed in. I have been buying jets from Wolf Creek over the past couple weeks (currently I have 3 different pilots / 4 airs / 5 fuels) surprising enough after 6 or 7 different jet settings I have came full circle to my original one for the best WOT AFR reading. I am still looking for a 6pack of venturi's that I can have for more air inlet - I would like to have two sets (one for street purpose driving) and (one for dyno pulls to see the max horsepower that my engine is capable of). My thought process is much like yours - I can never use all the horsepower that my engine can produce but I can enjoy the low end torque at any time on the street. Dave Rebello says I am losing 40 horsepower by not using the 36mm venturi's but I do not track my car. Just a weekend mountain road carver.

Keep the pics flowing - your going to love the first time you spark it up - don't forget to set your timing up based on your crusing rpm's........I worked off of 3000 RPM's for my baseline.

From my understanding you will be looking for:

• 12.7-13.0 :1 air fuel ratio at WOT at load-
• 13.2:1 being the peak high under load

Since I have no interstates near me (the closest one is 1 hour away) I have been working off 2nd gear @ 6000RPM's.

Where did you install your AFR gauge?

[Zedyone_kenobi]

Where my header goes from 6 into 2, then into one, My AFR is in the 2 into 1 section.



I will have to get a new exhaust adapter to put into this one, as my old header looks like hell.

[d240zx2]

Uh, Oh! I see an OSHA violation in the next to last pic of those you posted last..... ;-)

[Willoughby Z]

Socks on a glossy floor?
Kinda like Kammy's World famous maintenance photos wearing flip-flops...

Uh, Oh! I see an OSHA violation in the next to last pic of those you posted last..... ;-)

[siteunseen]

White ones too! That's like putting a Swifter on your baby's bottom.

[Diseazd]

However, they are Haynes steel toed tube socks. OSHA approved!

[ol'red70]

I have to ask what product / proceedure did you use on your floor? How recently was it done. It looks awsome.

[d240zx2]

I'll bet he used white socks to polish it...

I have to ask what product / proceedure did you use on your floor? How recently was it done. It looks awsome.