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Thread: Output flange of the transmission

  1. #1
    Supporting Member Zedyone_kenobi's Avatar
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    Default Output flange of the transmission

    Every since I put in this type B transmission I have and a clunking in reverse that corresponds to speed that I hear every single time I back up and it is by far worse when cold. Never fully goes away though. I was going to do a fluid change just for kicks today. drained the fluid, no signs of a leak anywhere, in fact it was very clean still. Keep in mind this was a rebuild from zcarsource I installed before my rally. IT shifts fine and drives fine. But it has always clunked when in reverse backing up. Clunk, clunk, clunk, clunk when I back up. The fast I back up the faster it clunks. Never had this issue ever with my old Type A transmission that came with the car.

    So, It made this clunking with the old OEM diff an the new STI diff.

    When I checked the drive shaft ujoints (same drive shaft I have always used) It feels great and solid. NO slack in the joints. But the output flange of the drive shaft that interfaces with the splines of the transmission moves up and down in my hand a bit. You can see it, feel it and hear it. I know the input shaft to the transmission has some movement, no worries there, but I am pretty sure the output shaft is not suppose to move, nor is there suppose to be any slop on the spline interface to my knowledge. When I move it up and down it sounds like the source of my clunk, clunk, clunk (nice onomatopoeia huh?)

    So In you guys memory, is this output flange suppose to have any movement?

    This is just a dandy excuse to get a 5 speed sooner...
    1971 240Z HLS30-38691
    93.9% done and getting better every day
    Now with 100% more DATSUN SPIRIT L28 Power
    1968 Datsun 2000 SRL311-03416

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    A couple of questions; Has the clunk gotten worse over time? Is there any high speed vibration? Is it difficult to shift into reverse?
    I don't recall any movement in mine but it has been close to 40 years since I had one apart.
    Mark in Portland

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    Supporting Member Zedyone_kenobi's Avatar
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    Great questions.

    It does seem to have gotten louder the last time I back it out. I have felt some vibration while driving it that I don't recall. I assumed a tire was giving me grief, but I had them rebalanced and they were fine, but a little under inflated. Still I can feel it in the chassis, but not the wheel. No shifting into reverse or any other gear has never been hard.
    1971 240Z HLS30-38691
    93.9% done and getting better every day
    Now with 100% more DATSUN SPIRIT L28 Power
    1968 Datsun 2000 SRL311-03416

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    The symptoms point to trouble in the trans tail-shaft & possibly the reverse idler gear if the u-joints look good. Since you already want a 5-speed this would be an excellant time for one. Otherwise you'll be opening up your 4-speed to find the trouble.
    Mark in Portland

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    Supporting Member Zedyone_kenobi's Avatar
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    Well I contacted the vendor I purchased the transmission from. It is LONG out of warranty, but I wanted to see what he would do with it. He agreed to fix it, at my cost, once I sent it to him. The car transmission is definitely NOT happy moving in reverse. I wonder if I could fix this myself. I have my original 4 speed unit that came with my car. It is a type A transmission with the wonky shifter feel, but it never let me down.

    I may put that one back in, and try to repair this one. That way I have two spares while I am looking for a proper 5 speed. Datsun parts LLC has a 5 speed right now but I have read reviews from other people here and it scares the crap out of me. I have already bought one bodged up transmission from one vendor, I do not need another.


    any anybody tell me if they have had any GOOD experience with Datsun parts LLC.

    Perhaps I should start another thread.
    1971 240Z HLS30-38691
    93.9% done and getting better every day
    Now with 100% more DATSUN SPIRIT L28 Power
    1968 Datsun 2000 SRL311-03416

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    Registered User Pop's Z's Avatar
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    Or you could hunt through the junk yards for a ZX 5 spd. We have found that they are around if you hunt for them. The ones we have found are actually in pretty good shape requiring only new seals. Just a thought. I like the 240SX idea also...they are fairly easy to find and require only seals and a bit of machining to adapt the Z bell housing.

    Cheers, Mike
    '73 240Z, 80,000 original miles, F54, N42 massaged and shaved (10.5-1 comp.), stage 2 cam, ZX ignition, Header, 2 1/2" exhaust w/ magnaflow muffler, 5 spd (Maxima), 4:11 R180 (200SX), 15" Rota RBs 205-60/15 Bridgestone Grid 109s, KYB struts, stock springs, rubber bushings, MSA sway bars and strut bars, HotRod Air hvac system, '90 300ZX seats, upgraded sound system, BRE-type spook and spoiler

  7. #7
    Supporting Member Zedyone_kenobi's Avatar
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    THe 240SX idea just sounds like more than I want to tackle right now. Perhap though after I get my OEM one back in, I will look and give it a whirl.
    1971 240Z HLS30-38691
    93.9% done and getting better every day
    Now with 100% more DATSUN SPIRIT L28 Power
    1968 Datsun 2000 SRL311-03416

  8. #8
    Registered User EuroDat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zedyone_kenobi View Post
    THe 240SX idea just sounds like more than I want to tackle right now. Perhap though after I get my OEM one back in, I will look and give it a whirl.
    After doing the STI diff swap, the 240SX tranny swap should be a sinch You will need the 71B front section, so going back to the 71A while you build the 71C is a good start. Keeps you mobile.

    Im not sure I understand what you mean by flange on the transmission. Does it have a flange like the diff?
    It shouldn't. They (71B) normally have a splined yoke that sides inside the transmission. If its flanged, like the roadster 5sp, then the splined section must be an integral part of the driveshaft.

    If you can feel any movement, specially if its clunking when you move it up and down, its not good.

    The movement in the input shaft, which is caused by the clearances in C3 bearings over a long distance, is removed by the spigot bearing in the back of the crankshaft. The driveshaft yoke does the same thing for the output shaft. The outside of the yoke slides into a white metal sleeve and its probably worn. The 5sp 71B has a replacable sleeve still available through Nissan, but the older 71B doesn't have the same sleeve as far as I know. Not having seen the inside of a 4sp 71B extension housing, it could be machined out of the housing. Maybe other members could confirm that.
    Chas
    Chas
    5/77 280Z HLS30 403100 with some modifications
    Original colour: 305 Light Blue. The PO changed it to Red

  9. #9
    Supporting Member Zedyone_kenobi's Avatar
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    Wow, that is a lot to digest, but it made sense, thanks for the education sir.

    This will be my first trip into manual transmissoin land. I have always treated transmissions like total replaceable units, so I am kind of looking forward to messing with one.
    What I meant by calling it a transmission output flange is the input flange from the drive shaft into the rear of the transmission. I can move that up and down.
    Last edited by Zedyone_kenobi; 03-10-2014 at 01:11 PM.
    1971 240Z HLS30-38691
    93.9% done and getting better every day
    Now with 100% more DATSUN SPIRIT L28 Power
    1968 Datsun 2000 SRL311-03416

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    what condition is the transmission mount in?

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    If I'm imagining this right, the front driveshaft yoke is loose in the tailshaft housing of the tranny? Have you pulled the driveshaft yet and looked at the yoke to see if the outside is worn. Also was the tranny ever run low on oil causing a lack of lubrication? Regardless, It's time for your 5 speed and probably a front yoke. The only thing I found tricky about the 4 speeds is the shifter check balls. A good manual will get you past that point. The rest is easy. Mark in Portland

  12. #12
    Registered User EuroDat's Avatar
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    What Mark is suggesting is probably right. The transmission doesn't seem to be in all that good condition. You probably have a badly worn extention house sleeve and maybe some wear on the yoke which is giving you that excessive vertical movement.
    The transmission could have run low on oil in its past life or it has a lot of miles on it. Either way it doesnt't sound like a good candidate for rebuilding.
    Chas
    Chas
    5/77 280Z HLS30 403100 with some modifications
    Original colour: 305 Light Blue. The PO changed it to Red

  13. #13
    Supporting Member Zedyone_kenobi's Avatar
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    I took a look at my old Type A transmission that ran quiet in reverse and every other gear except for a whine in 3rd, which I think all of these things do. The output shaft splines of that one (71k miles) moved far more than the one I just took out. So I think some movement is normal. With the driveshaft yoke inserted it moves much less.

    With that being said, I found a local Z specialty shop in Houston that has lots of experience with these transmissions. He is going to look at it and give me a final diagnosis on reverse and every other gear. I am happy to report that, as all the guys in the local Z club give this company very high marks. So hopefully within a week I will get an answer.
    1971 240Z HLS30-38691
    93.9% done and getting better every day
    Now with 100% more DATSUN SPIRIT L28 Power
    1968 Datsun 2000 SRL311-03416

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    Be sure & let us know what they find, with pics if possible. Enquiring minds want to know.

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    Supporting Member Zedyone_kenobi's Avatar
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    Will do, Dropped it off at Awesome Z in Houston. Doug is going to take a look at it. He is probably one of if not the most knowledgeable guy in Houston on these cars.
    1971 240Z HLS30-38691
    93.9% done and getting better every day
    Now with 100% more DATSUN SPIRIT L28 Power
    1968 Datsun 2000 SRL311-03416

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    Supporting Member Zedyone_kenobi's Avatar
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    My rebuilt transmission is back. But not from Zcarsource. I did not send it to them. I let Doug at Awesome Z here in Houston take it apart and rebuild it again. He found several things wrong. One of the teeth was damaged in 4th, and some shims were incorrectly placed and the 4th gear shaft had way too much radial movement. So it was not in good shape. Doug fixed me up and I am ready to attempt to install it again with the engine in the car.

    Not looking forward to this.

    I am wondering if I should even call zcarsource who was expecting me to ship it to them, on my dime, pay for them to fix it, and then pay to ship it back. They were nice enough, as they owe me nothing since it was out of warranty. I like zcarsource and will order form them again, but I am pleased with the service I got at Awesome Z.
    1971 240Z HLS30-38691
    93.9% done and getting better every day
    Now with 100% more DATSUN SPIRIT L28 Power
    1968 Datsun 2000 SRL311-03416

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    Maybe they'll discount you what they would have paid to have it fixed if you had sent it back. That would be fair since they had planned to pay it anyway. Worth a shot. Everybody's happy.

    They'd probably like to know about the errors their rebuilder made also. Future customers...
    1976 280Z, with some minor modifications

  18. #18
    Supporting Member Zedyone_kenobi's Avatar
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    According to the guy who rebuilt it, the shaft that 4th gear rides on moved radially too much. 4th gear itself had something hard embedded into the root of one of the gear teeth that was causing a sticking point and that is what probably wore out the shaft. The other shaft apparently was shimmed incorrectly.

    I will contact them shortly.

    On a happy note, I was able to get the re-rebuilt transmission instaled in 41 minutes from when I started. It just sort of plopped on. I could not believe how easy it was. The last one I tried for hours with no avail. Then had to pull the engine to do it. Man, that feeling of 'clunk' when it just falls in place was as sweet as hearing my baby laugh for the first time!
    1971 240Z HLS30-38691
    93.9% done and getting better every day
    Now with 100% more DATSUN SPIRIT L28 Power
    1968 Datsun 2000 SRL311-03416

  19. #19
    Registered User EuroDat's Avatar
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    Good to hear the tranny went back in so easy. With a bit of luck your problem will be fix and ready for summer
    Chas
    Chas
    5/77 280Z HLS30 403100 with some modifications
    Original colour: 305 Light Blue. The PO changed it to Red

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    Thanks for the follow-up. I've had them clunk into place too. Sweet sound. My worst case was a 66 mustang 4 speed with a cast-iron case. Clutch disc spline had a burr on it. 3 hours!
    Enjoy your toy.

  21. #21
    Supporting Member Zedyone_kenobi's Avatar
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    Well if there was any doubt, I finished my transmission swap out Friday and went to the track Saturday! Car ran flawlessly. This is the best sounding and feeling transmission I have ever had in the car. Smooth in every gear, no whine in any gear accelerating or decelerating. Car is just quiet and smooth.











    I finally got to feel what my L28 feels like with 3.90 gears when driven in anger. My gosh that car flat out hustles. The mid and upper rpm torque is just nuts. I had some sticky throttle issues toward the end of each run, so I am going to design my own throttle linkage and have it machined. Enough nonsense. I will fix this forever.
    Last edited by Zedyone_kenobi; 03-31-2014 at 07:14 AM.
    1971 240Z HLS30-38691
    93.9% done and getting better every day
    Now with 100% more DATSUN SPIRIT L28 Power
    1968 Datsun 2000 SRL311-03416

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