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Thread: Exhuast setup: Twice Pipes and 3into2 header.. any setbacks???

  1. #1
    mmm Z cars.. ohhh bbabyy PrOxLaMuS©'s Avatar
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    Default Exhuast setup: Twice Pipes and 3into2 header.. any setbacks???

    Well, I am all ready to buy my long awaited exhuast "package"

    I wanted to purchase MSA 3 into 2 headers, as well as the Twice Pipes exhuast setup.





    However, I wanted to see if there were any drawbacks or "cons" about purchasing the twice pipes exhuast. What is so special about glass-pack mufflers, and on average how long do they keep their "tone"?
    MSA also never specified if the twice-pipes exhuast was 2.5" or 2.25", does anyone know off hand?
    Another thing .... how will may cat converter fit with this piping?
    Would I go w/o a cat converter?

    Finally.... is there any performance differences between 6 into 1 headers and 3 into 2 headers?
    Last edited by PrOxLaMuS©; 08-15-2003 at 05:11 AM.

    1978 280Z Boring Mods :
    F54/P90a, Holset HY35W turbo, 3.75" downpipe, 3" exhuast, NPR intercooler, 440cc injectors, Innovate Wideband, Arizona Zcar springs, Tokico 5 ways, MSA sway bars
    www.putfile.com/proxlamus
    SEE my 280Z in ACTION! VIDEO!

  2. #2
    Zcarkrazy thefastestz's Avatar
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    Default

    If your 280z is not a CA model than it may not have a cat! Mine doesn't.

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    mmm Z cars.. ohhh bbabyy PrOxLaMuS©'s Avatar
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    Default

    I don't have an CA model...
    but I do have an 1978 280Z with an Cat converter...
    I dunno why or how it got there... but it's there....

    does anyone know if I have to cut the rear valence?

    1978 280Z Boring Mods :
    F54/P90a, Holset HY35W turbo, 3.75" downpipe, 3" exhuast, NPR intercooler, 440cc injectors, Innovate Wideband, Arizona Zcar springs, Tokico 5 ways, MSA sway bars
    www.putfile.com/proxlamus
    SEE my 280Z in ACTION! VIDEO!

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    Default

    Cutting the valence is not required... but you'll have to leave the pipes hanging a bit low to clear the valence...

    My advice is don't do it... in 6 months or less, the packing will be burned out of the mufflers and the noise will drive you nuts. Not only that, but the cops will just love you too...... I had the twice pipes on one Z, and will never do it again, once the packing burns out, you'll effectively have a straight exhaust.

    Best thing I can say is get the 2 1/4 or 2 1/2 "Turbo" exhaust with a good turbo muffler. Even then it can be a bit noisy with headers, you might want to look through the archives a bit, I think you'll find quite a few people who put a small bullet style muffler in the tunnel to quiet it down even more and get rids of some of the resonation.

    Dump the cat since you aren't in CA and required to have one, it's probably half plugged up by now anyways.
    "If it weren't for fools, the rest of us could not succeed." Mark Twain.

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    mmm Z cars.. ohhh bbabyy PrOxLaMuS©'s Avatar
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    hmm

    Is there any way I could get the twice pipes, and then when the glass-packs go out, I could use a normal muffler, like MagnaFLow for example?

    I thought that maybe muffler shop could do that....

    I have read however, that usually the glass-packs will last about 2 years or so, before they need to be replaced. So i figured every 2 years or so, replace them.

    BTW, does MSA sell 2.25" exhaust? I could only find that cheap Targa exhuast with 2.25".
    I would love to get the Turbo Exhuast system, but I don't see that they made it in 2.25"... only 2.5"

    1978 280Z Boring Mods :
    F54/P90a, Holset HY35W turbo, 3.75" downpipe, 3" exhuast, NPR intercooler, 440cc injectors, Innovate Wideband, Arizona Zcar springs, Tokico 5 ways, MSA sway bars
    www.putfile.com/proxlamus
    SEE my 280Z in ACTION! VIDEO!

  6. #6
    Registered User 1975yellowBSPZ's Avatar
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    Default I heard...

    I have a header thru big pipe to a 2 chamber flowmaster at the rear. Its really too loud for the street with my warmed over l28 (yeah the same one that needs a total rebuild ). I heard the way to go was to put a dynomax bullitt straght thru muffler before the rear wheels and use a tunable supertrapp at the rear (the ones with the disks). I was thinking on adding the disk unit directly to the outlet of my flowmaster, so I could quiet it a little for the street or open it up as needed, any thoughts?

    http://store.summitracing.com/partde...P%2D544%2D3003
    Last edited by 1975yellowBSPZ; 08-15-2003 at 10:38 AM.
    <<<<1975 280Z L28E header, flowmaster, 60mm TB, aftermarket fuel rail, custom cold air, aeromotive fuel regulator, corbeau buckets, front/rear strut bars, moto lita steering wheel, 5 point harness, 14 X 7 turbines w/ 235/60/14's, headlight covers, sidestripes, fender mount mirrors>>> SOLD AND MISSED

    Now have 2004 Subaru WRX Wagon - so is life

  7. #7
    Registered User ecp48's Avatar
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    Default Twice Pipes

    I have the twice pipes, they look the same, but were made by Thunderbird. The pipe size is 1 3/4".

    My 5/1978 280Z, bought in Virginia has no cat and according to the book, only the California cars had one.

    I am looking for a substitute muffler for the glass packs, but haven't found one. I want either a turbo type with dual inlet or two mufflers which can be stacked in that space.

    ecp48

  8. #8
    Registered User inline6's Avatar
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    Default Two mufflers stacked

    I've got two oval Magnaflow mufflers stacked in the back of my 240z. Magnaflow number on them is 11124. They are 2" inlet and 2" outlet. One side is centered and the other is offset. It was a little tricky, but if you use the centered as the inlets and the offset as the outlets, you can stack them so that the outlets are straight up and down coming out of the valence. This offsets the mufflers like this:

    --------------
    { O }
    ------------------------
    { O }
    ----------------

    This fits nicely where the rear quarter panel tucks in at the bottom. I'm sure Magnaflow makes this canister size with smaller inlet's and outlet's. Could be a good option for you.

    I also had to curve the upper outlet down and out to get the mufflers located so that they were tucked up where they look good-- just a slight S bend though.

    Garrrett
    Garrett

  9. #9
    Registered User inline6's Avatar
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    Default Picture evidently auto edited

    Sorry. Looks like the spaces were removed. I'll try one more thing. Visualize the below image with the x's replace by spaces.

    xxxxxxxx--------------
    xxxxxxxx{xxxxxxxxOx}
    xxxxxxxxx-----------------------
    xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx{xOxxxxxxxxx}
    xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx---------------

    G
    Garrett

  10. #10
    mmm Z cars.. ohhh bbabyy PrOxLaMuS©'s Avatar
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    Now that's interesting.... definatly different

    I grabbed a pic from your site..

    *edit - damn I can't post it because of tripod,
    but use his website, and scroll to the bottom.. and you can see the pics

    http://members.tripod.com/Trueweb/Zcar/
    Last edited by PrOxLaMuS©; 08-15-2003 at 07:01 PM.

    1978 280Z Boring Mods :
    F54/P90a, Holset HY35W turbo, 3.75" downpipe, 3" exhuast, NPR intercooler, 440cc injectors, Innovate Wideband, Arizona Zcar springs, Tokico 5 ways, MSA sway bars
    www.putfile.com/proxlamus
    SEE my 280Z in ACTION! VIDEO!

  11. #11
    Professional Nut carguyinok's Avatar
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    on average how long do they keep their "tone"?
    That is up to you If you run the car hard alot they will go out faster On the good side there cheap to replace.
    I have used glass packs alot and loved them. The thing to keep in mind is they take running time before you hear the true note.
    The way the twice pipes are set-up they (should) last longer being they are at the tail pipes. Most of the people running glass packs have them far to close to the motor. This puts more raw fuel and heat in the pack and makes it burn out much faster.
    With your cat. If you keep it (if its any good) The twice pipes should last longer. BUT with the cat on you will loose some of the sound and performance you are searching for from this system. Thats up to you.
    If I was looking for this type of set-up. I would make a trip to a
    exhuast shop. Take a photo of the twice pipes with and ask what they would charge to make it. It sould be less then what the twice pipes go for and installed on top of that. Another good thing about this is the shop can help you with the note or sound you are looking for with diff size packs. Oh yah plus your new system would be welded and not just clamped on.
    I reside in Oklahoma and live at the wheel of my 240Z

    gimmie the Z or he's toast






  12. #12
    mmm Z cars.. ohhh bbabyy PrOxLaMuS©'s Avatar
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    a shop can make me an "custom twice pipes exhaust" for under $139.95? MSA charges $139.95 for the entire exhuast setup (except the headers) and it would be $14.34 for shipping.

    Maybe I'll call around

    1978 280Z Boring Mods :
    F54/P90a, Holset HY35W turbo, 3.75" downpipe, 3" exhuast, NPR intercooler, 440cc injectors, Innovate Wideband, Arizona Zcar springs, Tokico 5 ways, MSA sway bars
    www.putfile.com/proxlamus
    SEE my 280Z in ACTION! VIDEO!

  13. #13
    Registered User Zedguy's Avatar
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    I've got to put my 2 cents in on this one. I read alot of posts on the Forum (including the archives) before finally deciding on my exhaust system last year. The biggest discussions were always 2 1/4" vs 2 1/2" pipe. (And some VERY strong opinions for and against each setup)

    In the end, I decided to buck the trends and be different. Bottom line is that everyone likes their setup for different reasons...and everyone has a different opinion on what's 'too loud'.

    I went with a 3 into 2 header and twice pipes. On top of that, I customized it to 'true' dual exhaust by eliminating the 'collector' pipe and running 3 cylinders into each pipe. (Which, by the way, is 1 3/4")

    The result? A system that I think sounds spetacular and a very noticible power increase at the top end. (And NO resination) I have had no negative comments about the system....in fact, most people say either 'that's what that car SHOULD sound like' or inquiries about what is under the hood?

    As for the glasspacks 'burning out? Yeah, it's going to happen eventually....but, I also know people who have run several years without that happening. Plus, they are fairly inexpensive...and MSA assured me they could bring the muffler in seperate to the system. Further to that, someone once wrote on this forum, that an Austin Healy muffler (dual inlet, dual outlet) would fit as a 'quieter replacement. Don't know if this is true or not. as I never looked into it.

    I would suggest that if you want to go this route that you price out the glasspacks seperately and see if it's worthwhile getting the 'pipes' done custom. With the modifications I made, it WOULD have been much cheaper. (Live and Learn)

    Bottom line, have some fun with this. The exhaust is often a big part of your car's personality; what do YOU ultimately want?

    Of course there are performance advantages to each system.....and everyone thinks their's is better. 2 1/2 vs 2 1/4....header vs manifold.....chevy vs ford?????????

    Take it all in.....sleep on it.....dream about it.....take a deep breath and make your decision.

    Good Luck!!
    Zedguy
    Last edited by Zedguy; 08-18-2003 at 04:45 AM.

  14. #14
    mmm Z cars.. ohhh bbabyy PrOxLaMuS©'s Avatar
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    hmm...
    good write up Zedguy...
    your setup sounds sexy, i want

    1978 280Z Boring Mods :
    F54/P90a, Holset HY35W turbo, 3.75" downpipe, 3" exhuast, NPR intercooler, 440cc injectors, Innovate Wideband, Arizona Zcar springs, Tokico 5 ways, MSA sway bars
    www.putfile.com/proxlamus
    SEE my 280Z in ACTION! VIDEO!

  15. #15
    Professional Nut carguyinok's Avatar
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    a shop can make me an "custom twice pipes exhaust" for under $139.95? MSA charges $139.95 for the entire exhuast setup (except the headers) and it would be $14.34 for shipping.
    You would be around the same if not less by the time you put the + on there for getting your twice pipes installed.
    Sure you could clamp them on but I hope you didnt just pay over $150 just to clamp it on .
    With glass packs around $30 each X 2 = $60 now a Y pipe and chrome tips go $20 theres $80 labor and pipe shoud be maybe $50 - $80 so $130 - $160 . Sure I think they can and you can get sound, pipe size, and tip style choices
    I reside in Oklahoma and live at the wheel of my 240Z

    gimmie the Z or he's toast






  16. #16
    Resident Wino Zvoiture's Avatar
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    Zedguy is right. A true twice-pipes system will indeed eliminate the Y-pipe and use the double outlet (6-2) header. 'Standard' (1 3/4 or 1 7/8) pipe is more than adequate for this setup. And...bullet mufflers WILL wear out. How soon is debatable.

    Does anyone make a double inlet/double outlet muffler?

    And, just in case anyone is tempted, a TRUE twice-pipes system (ala works cars)--with three cylinders dumping into a pipe running straight out to the rear center of the car--IS SO UNTRUCKINGUNBELIEVABLEMINDNUMBING LOUD your teeth hurt. Don't try it--unless you trailer your car.

    steve77(well over 90 dBa)
    "Auto racing, bull fighting, and mountain climbing are the only real sports ... all others are games." -EH
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  17. #17
    Resident Wino Zvoiture's Avatar
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    Oh...and about the cost thing.....Yes, a decent muffler shop will fabricate you an awsome exhaust for 100-150$. Of course, that is welded and with those cool urethane mounts welded here and there.

    Home-made system? Let's do some word-association:

    Clamps
    Swages
    Pacesetter
    disposal of existing system
    existing mounts
    rust
    jackstands


    steve77
    "Auto racing, bull fighting, and mountain climbing are the only real sports ... all others are games." -EH
    HLS30-360728 Green Death Machine
    HLS30-137933 Team Midol
    Central Coast Z Car Club
    WestCoastZRacer

  18. #18
    Registered User ecp48's Avatar
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    Default Twice Pipes

    The one thing not being discussed, is that most muffler shops are incapable of producing mandrel bent piping.

    My system is welded and I am fabricating the segment from the header to the duals, cutting off the collecter which starts the duals like Zedguy. Just buy the prebent segments and weld it up.

    ecp48

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