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Thread: msa performance exhaust, 6-1 header with pics

  1. #1
    Sportscars FTW! xray's Avatar
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    Default msa performance exhaust, 6-1 header with pics

    So I finally got around to buying/test fitting the exhaust on my 72 restoration...Seems like some folks in the past have had some issues with MSA's header flange not mating well at the cylinder head, not clearing the steering...exhaust stories are equally as prevalent. After talking with them and hearing about improved design I bought the 6-1 MSA header with ceramic coating along with their new "performance" 2.5" exhaust...

    As you can see from the pics, they seem to have cleared up a lot of issues. The header has a substantially thicker flange and comes with its own manifold gasket. Test fitting showed some slight warpage over the length of the flange (mine slightly bowed from the center about 3/32"), but this was easily overcome by tightening bolts in the proper order to allow the curvature to straighten out. All mounting holes lined up properly. The collector clears the steering and the trans bellhousing, and allows for the stock heat shield to be re-used (albeit with a little persuasion)

    The exhaust is 2.5" aluminized steel in two sections. All are flange-mounted and come with hardware and gaskets. The mid-pipe has a nice curve that follows the contour of the floor pan. The endpipe has a nice mandrel bend that 95% perfectly matches the stock mounting points. One mount on the exhaust is welded on and just barely misses perfect positioning by 1/2" or so, but easily is obscured by the rubber mount.

    Muffler is the standard Dynomax SuperTurbo, and it comes with a chrome tip that may be restrictive and will probably be replaced. Still working on proper fitment of the muffler--I think I may have to trim one of the mounts, so don't take the appearance in the pics for a final positioning.

    I'm no exhaust guru, but it looks like MSA did some good homework and re-engineered this exhaust to fit properly such that a DIY'er like myself can mount it in 2-3 hours by myself. Total cost around $550.
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    Steve

    HLS30-81167 restored, top to bottom.
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    Sportscars FTW! xray's Avatar
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    Default more pics

    I hope this helps some folks who may be considering buying an exhaust package in the future. Car is still undergoing reassembly, and will be several weeks before I can report on sound, performance, drone/resonance etc.

    Steve
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    Steve

    HLS30-81167 restored, top to bottom.
    2001 M roadster Gehen sie Schneller!
    1987 SpecE30 Trackster...welcome home!
    Making up for owning a minivan...
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    Biafra for President e_racer1999's Avatar
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    Default

    wow, looks like they did some NICE updating. fits a lot nicer than my aluminized setup (that came in 4 pieces :P) and that header flange is nice and thick, too.
    Jason King
    6/72 240Z / HLS30 89646 (Yellow)
    1996 Infiniti I30 *I finally have all Nissans again!*
    1971 510 4door (wife's car)
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    Quote Originally Posted by xray View Post
    As unfortunate as it may be, if you want to vintage race, go Euro....If you want to race for real, stick with the Z!

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    Registered User ta240's Avatar
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    Default

    great post! I muddled through a ton of posts with questions on different exhausts when I was looking at one for my Z and this would have been a very helpful one to have had then.
    New Site in the works!
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    Nice pics! It looks to be a good fitment all round. Most systems need some amount of tweaking. Are you going to port match the header to the head before final fitment? If you want the full benefit of the header with the least restriction, it is well worth the small amount of time it takes to do it.

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    Default

    man, now you're making me want that system more for my 78.
    I've been eye'ing that exhaust setup for the past month or so.

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    Biafra for President e_racer1999's Avatar
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    it sounds MEAN. especially with a stage IV cam
    Jason King
    6/72 240Z / HLS30 89646 (Yellow)
    1996 Infiniti I30 *I finally have all Nissans again!*
    1971 510 4door (wife's car)
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    Quote Originally Posted by xray View Post
    As unfortunate as it may be, if you want to vintage race, go Euro....If you want to race for real, stick with the Z!

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    Port match the header? Doubtful. I got the engine (remanufactured F54/P79) with about 30k on it, the last few thousand as a track car. It has a mild grind cam on it, and reportedly made 180 RWHP. Had compression in the 160s...Tough to portmatch the exhaust when there are liners in it...

    The P79 has a good combustion chamber design with an improved quench character. Some debate the disadvantage of the exhaust liners and suggest that shaving a P79 is better than prepping an E88, but not as good as the P90. So, I have been looking (not too hard) for a P90, and have considered prepping a spare E88 while the stock engine is rebuilt, but we'll see how this setup works out first.

    I am pleased with how easily the exhaust installed, and how nicely it is tucked into the space allocated. I would really dig having a premuffler with a pair of Ansa-like over/under glasspacks, but also that will wait until things have been sorted out.

    Steve
    Steve

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    Quote Originally Posted by xray View Post
    I hope this helps some folks who may be considering buying an exhaust package in the future. Car is still undergoing reassembly, and will be several weeks before I can report on sound, performance, drone/resonance etc.

    Steve
    I have that same exhaust, but with a 6-2-1 header. I had some trouble with the pipe rattling on the differential mount cross-member, but other than that it was easy enough to install.

    As for the sound... It is really loud. (A little too loud to suit me.) When I drive in town I tend to stay in the highest gear that the engine will pull just to keep the noise down. I guess that I could splice in a glasspack somewhere to take some of the edge off.

    Perhaps I will get used to it eventually.
    '71 240Z, Because any fool can drive fast in a straight line.

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    Hi Walter,

    This exhaust clears the trans and diff mount by about 3/4", so hopefully the rattle will not be much of an issue. As for loudness, well....so long as it sounds anything close the I6 3.2 in the M roadster with which it shares garage space, then I'll be happy!

    Steve
    Steve

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    1987 SpecE30 Trackster...welcome home!
    Making up for owning a minivan...
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    I like the look of the new flanged system. I just wish they offered it in a smaller diameter as well. The 2.5" is a bit much for an L24, IMO.

    But if they made it in say, 2.0" or 2.25", with a round DynoMax 17-741 instead of the oval muffler, I'd be really interested.
    Arne - Former owner, HLS30-37705, 7/71, 905 Red
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    Arne,

    You may want to give them a call. The 6-1 header comes with an adapter to mate it with the stock diameter exhaust. I didn't inquire about a smaller diameter "performance" alternative because I was shopping the 2.8. Since they offer such a performance item as the Stahl headers I would hazard a guess they have different exhaust diameters to match the appropriate configuration.

    Ditto on the oval muffler. But my 73Z I had years ago had Ansa glasspacks on it, and I pine for that sound....
    Last edited by xray; 10-14-2007 at 09:47 PM.
    Steve

    HLS30-81167 restored, top to bottom.
    2001 M roadster Gehen sie Schneller!
    1987 SpecE30 Trackster...welcome home!
    Making up for owning a minivan...
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    Sportscars FTW! xray's Avatar
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    Default stock "premium" MSA exhaust

    http://www.thezstore.com/page/TZS/PROD/PEC27/15-6302

    Don't know the exhaust diameter, I assume it is stock (duh), but may be worth calling about
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    Last edited by xray; 10-14-2007 at 09:57 PM.
    Steve

    HLS30-81167 restored, top to bottom.
    2001 M roadster Gehen sie Schneller!
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    Making up for owning a minivan...
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    Dunno. I talked to them a few weeks back about smaller than 2.5" and they recommended I find a local muffler shop. Looks to me like the system for stock manifolds is the same as yours, with the addition of a downpipe. But it looks good, I may yet try it on the yellow car, if I find a stock manifold for it.
    Arne - Former owner, HLS30-37705, 7/71, 905 Red
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    now that i'm looking at the options, i think i might go with the 6in1 header with the premium exhaust for it. i should be able to get it in a month or 2 if things go ok when i emission test my car next week (fingers crossed)

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    '71 240Z, '78 280Z jmark's Avatar
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    Thanks Xray. Sal told me that MSA had improved the fit. Now if the drone is gone it looks like a winner. Let us know. I really want to pop for one of the Stahl headers but it is just too $$$$. For a stock motor the Stahl header is available in a smaller diameter than 1 1/2".
    Mark
    '71 240Z White 904
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    '78 280Z Wine Red Metallic 611
    VIN HLS30468702
    IZCC #13834 CZC #5664
    '07 Nismo 350Z Silver Alloy Serial #0007
    VIN JN1BZ34E47M552354


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    Great pictures and commentary!

    That thicker flange on the header should fix the old problem of mismatch between the intake and exhaust manifolds at locations using the thick washers which are supposed to clamp down to secure both. Hopefully they toleranced the new flange to match the OEM flange thickness.
    Ron
    1971 240Z - Original Owner
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    Mfg Date: Dec, 1970

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    How much did it cost you for the headers and the ceramic coating?
    Mike

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    Hullo All

    As I progress slowly through the "refreshment" of my 1973 Fairlady 240Z, I am looking to renew the exhaust system. This information is helpful for thinking of options.

    I have made enquiries of HiTech Mufflers in Sydney recently and they suggested Ceramic extractors mated to a stainless steel exhaust. The exhaust would have to be crafted to suit car. Cost - AUD2000 approximately!!

    Obviously the MSA system that xray refers to is much less money, but a long way away! Would any Aussie people have any advice as to who/where to seek out a new system for the 240Z. I would appreciate any advice greatly.

    Thanks for your help.

    Regards, Jack

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    Kinfish,

    The flanges match just about dead-on for thickness between intake and exhaust. I put on an N36 intake with the header and used the OEMwashers to secure it in place--no other shims needed. I'll try taking a closer pic of it...Of course, we'll have to see when the engine fires up to be sure if there are no leaks, but hey--a guy can have some optimism once in a while, right?

    Mike,
    The header was $320 (coated) and exhaust $240. Including shipping and a Z Club discount it was somewhere in the neighborhood of $520-$550. I'll know for sure when my AmEx statement comes...
    Last edited by xray; 10-15-2007 at 04:41 PM.
    Steve

    HLS30-81167 restored, top to bottom.
    2001 M roadster Gehen sie Schneller!
    1987 SpecE30 Trackster...welcome home!
    Making up for owning a minivan...
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    Loud Pipes Saves Lives
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    '71 240Z, '78 280Z jmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xray View Post
    Kinfish,

    The flanges match just about dead-on for thickness between intake and exhaust. I put on an N36 intake with the header and used the OEMwashers to secure it in place--no other shims needed. I'll try taking a closer pic of it...Of course, we'll have to see when the engine fires up to be sure if there are no leaks, but hey--a guy can have some optimism once in a while, right?

    Mike,
    The header was $320 (coated) and exhaust $240. Including shipping and a Z Club discount it was somewhere in the neighborhood of $520-$550. I'll know for sure when my AmEx statement comes...
    Any updates?
    Mark
    '71 240Z White 904
    VIN HLS3022975
    '78 280Z Wine Red Metallic 611
    VIN HLS30468702
    IZCC #13834 CZC #5664
    '07 Nismo 350Z Silver Alloy Serial #0007
    VIN JN1BZ34E47M552354


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    Hi Mark,

    In a word---rumble. As in :"rumblerumblerumblerumblerumble--WHOOOM! rumblerumblerumblerumble..." Sounds great IMO. Nice lope fromt he camshaft quick brappy revs from the light flywheel--but it's still not well-tuned as it sounds a little too V8ish for my taste.

    I can feel the exhaust note in my chest standing near it from 2-3 feet away at idle, and I can't detect significant resonance to speak of (but I've only had it around the neighborhood, so haven't assessed highway speed yet.) In tyhe cabin it's a great low-mid tone up to 35 mph, but I'll know more once I troubleshoot some other areas.

    I'm still sorting it out, and figuring out a good way to record it without distortion, but I'm very happy with my choice.

    Steve
    Steve

    HLS30-81167 restored, top to bottom.
    2001 M roadster Gehen sie Schneller!
    1987 SpecE30 Trackster...welcome home!
    Making up for owning a minivan...
    http://picasaweb.google.com/srcartermd

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    Default new better tip installed

    The tip that comes with the kit fits inside the muffler tip, and narrows its ID to about 2". I've been looking around for a suitable replacement that also has the length to get it out from under the car so exhaust fumes aren't sucked back into the cabin, and found this one at PepBoys, of all places. It's 3.5" OD with a resonator built in, but ID remains 2.5". It is 8" long, and extends about 2" past the bumper after installation. COsts about $25.

    JC Whitney offers a similar-sized one by Pacesetter, as part of their Monza lineup, but it costs a little more at $36 plus shipping.

    After install it quiets the muffler a little but still maintains an agressive tone. My wife thinks it sounds a little louder than my M roadster (stock exhaust) but has no "ricer" sound at all. My neighbor (not a car guy) thought it sounded "Awesome--the sound of accomplishment!"
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    Steve

    HLS30-81167 restored, top to bottom.
    2001 M roadster Gehen sie Schneller!
    1987 SpecE30 Trackster...welcome home!
    Making up for owning a minivan...
    http://picasaweb.google.com/srcartermd

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    I really like the idea of this system, but I don't think I could handle the look of that oval muffler hanging down so low and at an odd angle. Why, oh why couldn't they have built this system around a better fitting muffler? If they made the same system in 2 1/4" using a Dynomax 17-741 (a 6" round muffler), I'd have my credit card out in a flash.
    Arne - Former owner, HLS30-37705, 7/71, 905 Red
    Car blogs - 240Z - Porsche 911

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    Biafra for President e_racer1999's Avatar
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    i mounted my muffler reverse to the way that one's mounted; it pushes the bottom up considerably, but it sits at a bit of an angle to get it close to the hole in the valence

    EDIT - it's the same as how it's mocked up in the first post
    Last edited by e_racer1999; 11-18-2007 at 01:59 PM.
    Jason King
    6/72 240Z / HLS30 89646 (Yellow)
    1996 Infiniti I30 *I finally have all Nissans again!*
    1971 510 4door (wife's car)
    IZCC Member #14186

    Quote Originally Posted by xray View Post
    As unfortunate as it may be, if you want to vintage race, go Euro....If you want to race for real, stick with the Z!

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    Jason--

    I tried it both ways, then realized from the graphic on the box that Dynomax recorded airflow rates with inflow through the off-center opening and outflow through the center one. No idea if it makers a difference. Plus, the muffler exit sits more concentric within its opening, as you alluded to in your post.
    Steve

    HLS30-81167 restored, top to bottom.
    2001 M roadster Gehen sie Schneller!
    1987 SpecE30 Trackster...welcome home!
    Making up for owning a minivan...
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    indeed. i attempted to look at the box for reference for mine, but my drawing has it offset on both sides. when i mounted mine i wanted it has high up as possible, but i have considered switching it around. eventually when i get dyno time i will test it both ways and let you know what i find

    Jason
    Jason King
    6/72 240Z / HLS30 89646 (Yellow)
    1996 Infiniti I30 *I finally have all Nissans again!*
    1971 510 4door (wife's car)
    IZCC Member #14186

    Quote Originally Posted by xray View Post
    As unfortunate as it may be, if you want to vintage race, go Euro....If you want to race for real, stick with the Z!

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    i have the prem msa on my z too

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    As do I on my 280z I love the sound it puts out. Though I have a rattle somewhere that I will deal with at a later date.
    1978 Datsun 280z: The Wiz

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    I installed the MSA 6-1 CH header this weekend. Everything went relatively well, considering this is the first time I have really worked on these cars. Replaced all fuel lines, fuel injectors, and injector harnesses at the same time. I guess it took me 12 hours total.

    The header fit very well. The gasket which came from MSA was damaged and old, so I bought a new Felpro gasket. It should be noted that the header must be installed from ABOVE, not from below, and that it should be hung on the block first, followed by the intake manifold. This knowledge would have saved me some time. ( I removed the stock exhaust from below
    before removing the intake). The stock washers and bolts fit well with the header. Mine had no warping.

    I elected not to replace the heat shield because in theory the header should not get as not as the stock iron exhaust. Does anyone think this will lead to vapor lock? I could replace the shield, but it wouldn't be as pretty.

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    I used to have the Dynomax. I did not like the way it looks. I switched to a Sebring muffler, it has a straight through design, 2'5 in, and is perfect fit for a 240z. It was chrome plated and sounds really good.

    I bought it for $129...
    take a look at this link on what it looks like...
    http://www.2002haus.com/sebring_exhaust.htm

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    i just put the 3/2 coated header on and couldn't be happier. well, i wussed out and let my buddy's shop put it on. great sound and looks good. i bought the aluminized exhaust kit (with the dynomax) and was sorely disappointed by it. the muffler was big and looked awful and the kit drug over every speed bump and my driveway. took it down to a muffler shop and had him run a whole new exhaust set up with a smaller turbo muffler. the exhaust system the shop made me hugs a lot better than the kit from msa, hasn't scraped on anything yet. the muffler shop charged the same as the kit from msa, so i'd suggest passing on it.

    it's still pretty loud but sounds better than the rotted out twice pipes system that was on it.
    Last edited by kelman81; 12-17-2007 at 10:18 PM. Reason: additional info

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    Based on my personal experience and photos at the top of the thread, I'm not sure how it dragged on anything unless your car is seriously lowered or the system not correctly installed. Post some pics maybe? Might be moot though if you already paid to have someone do it over again...

    The Superturbo Dynomax MSA provides with the system clearly is not the best option... but there's so much space in that area of the car, there are a myriad of options for better fit/sound.
    Steve

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    i was amazed at how poorly it fit too, should have taken pictures when it was on the rack before i had i removed. there was maybe a 1-1/2" gap between the mounting point under the rear suspension and the exhaust pipe. the u clamps were also positioned poorly with the threads pointing down. i am wondering about my suspension being lowered, this car (240) rides a hole lot lower than my 260 did with the same size tires and all. had this car only for a few months and haven't had a chance to look around it much. i did think that the supplied dynomax was a little too large though for looks. yeah it fit, but it was too wide of an oval (it mounts vertically) and the bottom of the oval hung down too much for my liking.

    Chris

    '70 240z HLS30-00797 white on blue

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    Any new updates on this thread? Comments on sound (volume and tone)? Pictures of how the muffler finally fits?
    Arne - Former owner, HLS30-37705, 7/71, 905 Red
    Car blogs - 240Z - Porsche 911

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    Hi Arne,

    The muffler fit is still suboptimal. Nothing new since my pics of 11/18. I sorta like the sound...a bit of a grumble with a nice deep tone in the 2000-3500 range. Nothing ricey at all. The exhaust sound resonates in my chest when I check the rear brakes/wheels etc..a nice bonus, IMO. I installed a tip extension that has a small resonator in it which I think has toned down the noise level. My wife likes it--says it's distinctive but not overbearing. As I stated before, the muffler is the weak spot in the system, and I am sure better options are out there. As soon as I get some other issues taken care of, I'll do some more research.

    I'd love a midpipe resonator with an over/under Ansa-type setup, but everything I've found is for the stock exhaust diameter (admittedly I've not been looking too hard.)

    Steve
    Steve

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    Figures. I'd like a smaller diameter system both to keep the noise level down and because a bone-stock L24 doesn't need a 2 1/2" exhaust. And I'm trying to avoid the over-under Ansa look.

    I was looking at the specs on Dynomax's web site - the muffler MSA provides has side and center outlets? Would it make things easier to fit the muffler if it had side outlets on both ends? (Not both on the same side, but staggered.)
    Arne - Former owner, HLS30-37705, 7/71, 905 Red
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    Arne, MSA's muffler has a center inlet and an offset outlet. If you do not mind spending a little bit extra, just get a custom exhaust fabricated for your car with your muffler of choice. I would get a 2-1/2 in. exhaust system and add a resonator to quiet it down.
    -Bo

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    "Something wicked this way comes...."

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    Quote Originally Posted by ktm View Post
    If you do not mind spending a little bit extra, just get a custom exhaust fabricated for your car with your muffler of choice. I would get a 2-1/2 in. exhaust system and add a resonator to quiet it down.
    I'm almost certain that I will end up having it built locally. Problem is that - in my neck of the woods - doing it the way I want is not just a little more, but quite a lot more. I've only got one shop around here that does mandrel bending, and they are quite proud of their work. They've quoted me $400-500 to do what I want: aluminized 2" or maybe 2 1/4" with a resonator and a round Dynomax in the rear. (I don't need 2 1/2" for a bone-stock L24.) I keep hoping I'll find something mass-produced that would be close enough to what I want. But I don't think it's going to happen.
    Arne - Former owner, HLS30-37705, 7/71, 905 Red
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    Default exhaust system

    Hi Arne, If you are bone stock, do you really need mandrel bends? The reason I ask is I had my system re-done by a local (not national) shop and I paid $258 for a 2 1/4" system: flange on the down pipe, squash tube bends (actually a lot less squashed than I had expected), an 18" glass pac (subsequently removed as not necessary), a Walker round Dyno muffler #17741, and a chrome tip. I had them reuse my Nissan mounts and rubber parts and they tucked it up nicely exactly the way I wanted it. I also got to stand there and watch/supervise. It was a tremendous improvement over the stock system and it was so quiet that I had them remove the glass pac and replace it with a section of pipe. It's still pretty quiet with NO drone in the 2,000-3,000 rpm range, or any range for that matter which is OK with my older sensibilities. FWIWIMHO I really think that mandrel bends are for aesthetics and not really necessary on a stock 2.4litre. Everything I've read tells me that the smooth pipes are for that last bit of HP from a seriously modified system, both intake and exhaust. I found my shop by chatting up the local hot rod guys at the car shows, same way I found my body/paint guy. Cheers, Mike
    ps: the system is all aluminized. I have pics I can send to your email.
    Last edited by Pop's Z; 01-08-2008 at 02:54 PM. Reason: adding

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    You know, Mike? I have also thought that mandrel bends might not be necessary for my application as well. You're right, it does look nicer, but what you described would still be far better than the 1 3/4" squash bent system now on the car. I'll PM you my address, I'd love to see some pictures. Or you could just post them here for all to see.
    Arne - Former owner, HLS30-37705, 7/71, 905 Red
    Car blogs - 240Z - Porsche 911

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    The price you were quoted is consistent for a mandrel bent exhaust. I paid $400 (not including the muffler) for my 3-in. mandrel bent exhaust. I was quoted over $600 from some places.

    Considering the fact that an MSA premium system is around $200, shelling out another $200 for a custom fit exhaust is not unreasonable. However, it all depends on the individual. I ran the MSA exhaust on my car when I had the L24 because I did not want to spend $400 on an exhaust for the car. I **had** to spend the money on my recent build though.

    Pops'z has a great suggestion regarding the crush bent exhaust. You could still go a little larger in diameter if you so chose to counter-act the effects (negligible though) of the crushed bends.

    Everyone talks about mandrel bent exhausts as if they were the only way to go, but given the horsepower of a stock L24, crush bent systems are fine.
    -Bo

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    I have had a little bit of an education with the MSA 6-1 system. Once I got everything secure, I installed a Borla S-type round muffler. It was expensive, and when I started the car I thought it was a Civic. I hated the sound. Too high-pitched and loud.

    I went back to the Dynomax muffler that came with the car and thought it sounded good, but better without the tip extension. Problem was an interior-buzzing drone between 3000-4000 rpm.

    After looking for awhile, I got a 2.5 in Vibrant Performance resonator from www.verociousmotorsports.com The workmanship on this piece is amazing (like 10x better than the Borla), and it solved the drone. Of course this needed to be cut and welded in, so so much for the bolt-on stuff.

    I am still looking for a tip extension that I like, and I will need to paint the muffler black because I can't stand looking at it.

    I will post pictures, websites and recordings when I am happy with it.

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    I've been looking at these headers also, however, how would one make these work with a turbo set up? My 240z has the L28 engine in it, with N42 head with 2 SU carbs and stck exhaust manifold from a 240z. I will be upgrading to a P90 head, and I have a turbo intake already. Slowly getting my car to the way I want it.

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    Justin, you need a special turbo exhaust manifold. Can't use an off-the-shelf header. Puts the turbo too far downstream.
    Arne - Former owner, HLS30-37705, 7/71, 905 Red
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    Default 2.5 inch MSA 6-1

    Sorry about the quality of the photos. Camera phone, no flash. But this is the final exhaust. Described as above. Pilot Resonator tip, and I painted the couplings with high-heat silver so they would match the "aluminized" exhaust. Sounds close to stock at idle, but much louder above 2500 RPM. I will record it and post media file...
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    iufan993,

    I like that resonator! I see you had to angle the muffler to give it a more "tucked in" look...Excited to hear the media file.

    Thanks,
    Steve
    Steve

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    Arne, there are turbo headers out there, but it would have to be custom made. However, with what I'm wanting to do, I'm just going to use the a stock turbo exhaust manifold, which I have, and port it out. I'm not wanting to push any more than 300 to 350 RWHP at the moment.

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    You really need to do more reading justin. I am pushing that much horsepower and torque through a stock head, stock N42 non-egr intake, and stock exhaust manifold. There are people pushing over 400 whp on the stock exhaust manifold.
    -Bo

    1972 240z - Not original and still not done.
    "Something wicked this way comes...."

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    Default install question

    First, thanks for posting such through pictures of your exhaust. I just got the same exhaust system, but am having a few problems installing it and was wondering if you ran accross this.

    I have a 73 240z with the MSA Aerospace Thermal Coated Headers. If I bolt the exhaust pipe onto the header tightly, it misses the exhaust tunnel completely and ends up pointing under the differential.

    It appears I can bolt all pipes very loosely together and attach to the hangers, and everything will be in the correct place, so then I could tighten the exhaust flanges to force the exhaust into the tunnel. I'm afraid though that with that much leverage (the length of the exhaust pipe), I might be putting too much stress on the exhaust studs in the head and risk them popping out.

    Is this a valid concern?

    Thanks for any input.

    Mike

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    I know this is an old thread but for those of you who have installed a header, do you remember what you torqued the nuts to? Also I wonder if there would be any problem with using stainless nuts and washers on the factory exhaust manifold studs?

    Thanks for any input!

    Byan

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    I know I've posted the page number before from the FSM but I remember the torque spec being 7-9 ft lb's on the intake/exhaust studs

    On my car I have better luck using 1/4 drive sockets and extensions (also use 1 universal) for accessibility. I have used an inch-pound torque wrench in 1/4 drive and I've also used a 3/8 drive torque wrench with a 1/4 adapter.

    Take your time and don't skimp on the anti-seize. I re-used my original washers and used the nuts that came in the MSA stud kit. Stainless hardware would be up to you

    -Andy
    1973 HLS30-166105
    RB20DET swap, HKS GT2530 turbo, HKS Actuator, Hallman MBC, ebay intake manifold, ebay dump pipe, straight pipe, 14 psi boost

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    Does anyone have an audio clip of the MSA 6 into one header + exhaust?
    Ideally it would be nice to hear idle, under load, at high rpm and backing off throttle.

    I remember seeing a video clip somewhere of multiple z's with their exhaust (can't find it now) but it did not state which car had which exhaust.

    Thanks.

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    Well, I just got this system (MSA 6 into 1) onto my '73 w/ L28. For any of you considering it, I was actually pretty impressed by the fit. I was concerned based upon comments I'd read that the muffler would be hanging low or wouldn't clear-no such issues.

    The only conflict I had was that the header was touching one of the [unused] tranny bosses at the bottom of the bell housing-so I shaved the tranny down to give be about 1/4" clearance. I took the car around the block yesterday and for the first time since I've owned the car I got the tach up to 6,000. My old pipe was around 1.5" in diameter, the new pipe is 2.5" or almost 3x the cross sectional area.

    I'll try to post pics once I get the car up on a rack.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tlorber View Post
    Well, I just got this system (MSA 6 into 1) onto my '73 w/ L28.
    What head is on the L28?

    Quote Originally Posted by tlorber View Post
    I took the car around the block yesterday and for the first time since I've owned the car I got the tach up to 6,000.
    Did the car not want to rev to 6000rpm before this?
    '78 280Z - HLS30-456750

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    Head is an N47. The motor did not want to get up there. Now it pulls hard through 6k. Has a peak between 3800 & 4400 and another btw 5000 and 5600.

    However, I also noticed when I pulled the carbs that the gaskets on both had "slumped" into the airway and were blocking around 10% of it on both carbs.

    This probably contributed to the condition.

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    Just to throw in:

    I printed out and brought in the description for MSAs Premium Exhaust System (For Stock Manifold) to the best of the local muffler shops and asked them what it would cost me for them to come up with something similar. They said it was a "super" price and that I should order it and they'd do in the install for $100.

    Having done enough exhaust systems to know that this seemingly trivially simple job is usually not, I agreed. Ordered it on Monday, arrived Wednesday via cheapest shipment option (to be fair, an in-state, maybe 350 mile ship), took the shop an hour to install. Sure sounds tougher, perhaps a bit tougher than my Z really is. It is definitely louder, even under low engine speed steady-state speed conditions, as my wife can hear me coming whereas before she could not. Adds a bit of a rumble at 70 mph (3000 rpm -- very long legged gearing on my beastie) but hardly objectionable. What I really love about it is the sound of killer bees that swarms in at 3000 rpm when accelerating flat-out. Power? Honestly, can't tell. I don't have a timing trap and didn't do a top speed before / after comparison at the time. Probably not much on my stock, no severe problems, but also understandably tired (200,000+ miles) engine, but this upgrade was made with an eye for the future (rebuild and headers) as well as the present. My only real knock is the shape of the muffler itself, as has been pointed out by others, a comparable round one would look and fit better. 2 months in, everything is still together, no bumps or creaks or leaks and I am one satisfied puppy.

    Chris

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    200K miles on an L Series Nissan motor is not "tired" unless it has been abused.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Powerglide View Post
    200K miles on an L Series Nissan motor is not "tired" unless it has been abused.
    It had 160K on it when I bought it two and 1/2 years ago so I can't say whether or not it was abused up to that point. Compression was a little low (5-10 lbs) but even across the cylinders and there are odd scratch-like marks on the cam that can be seen but not felt by hand. Goes through a quart of oil every 500 - 800 miles, depending on season and type of driving. Speaking for myself, I'm pretty easy on cars. A mis-spent (or well-spent, take your choice) youth of nursing left-for-dead hulks around for months, even years, with no more than oil and grease taught me how to keep stress low on cars.

    Not that I don't know what the pedal on the right does.

    Chris

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    Question (Don't laugh - I just want input to do it right) - I am fixin' to install my 6 into 1 header and noticed the front and rear stud holes are larger than the rest. This can be seen in the photos of the original post. So, is just a large flat washer adequate to use when mounting such as what appears to be used in this installation?
    Thanks
    1971 240Z - HLS30-23305 2/71
    1971 240Z - HLS30-30855 5/71

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    Hi Arnie,
    On my 1971 Z I've got a 2.5'' system that finishes up with a nicely tucked in (out of sight) oval Dynomax. As is, the intake is centered and the output is offset. By way of mention,the system starts with a full header and was quite loud and with a bit of drone. I since have added a 'Cherrybomb' about mid-length to the system; it removed the drone and made a deeper (more pleasing ) sound to the system.

    Regards,

    George

    Quote Originally Posted by Arne View Post
    I really like the idea of this system, but I don't think I could handle the look of that oval muffler hanging down so low and at an odd angle. Why, oh why couldn't they have built this system around a better fitting muffler? If they made the same system in 2 1/4" using a Dynomax 17-741 (a 6" round muffler), I'd have my credit card out in a flash.
    Original Registration and Warranty Card

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    Hey George, you answered a question that was asked almost six years ago. Arne doesn't even own a Z any more.
    Jeff
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    Thanks, Jeff...You are correct....I screwed up - not the first time - most likely won't be the last!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff G 78 View Post
    Hey George, you answered a question that was asked almost six years ago. Arne doesn't even own a Z any more.
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    Zombie thread claims another victim. hee hee. It happens to all of us.
    Jeff
    Northville, Michigan
    IZCC #1285
    '78 280 10:1 CR, Arizona Z Car header, urethane bushings, Tokico springs, Illumina struts, Panasports w/Hankook R-S2 225/50R16 tires, Maxima 105 amp alternator
    http://www.classiczcars.com/photopos...00&ppuser=7975
    '74 260Z BRE look-alike crap can for Optima Batteries ChumpCar World Series Racing racing
    https://www.facebook.com/Jeff.Grauer

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    Nova Scotia,Canada,Earth Blue's Avatar
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    I liked seeing this old thread as the pics on the first page are beauties.
    There is scarcely anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse, and sell a little more cheaply.
    The person who buys on price alone is this man's lawful prey.


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  67. #67
    Registered User LeonV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue View Post
    I liked seeing this old thread as the pics on the first page are beauties.
    Same here. I got a new MSA 6-1 with MSA's old-style Premium exhaust (slip fit instead of flanged) with a Z I got recently and have been thinking about what I want to do with it. Good read!
    2/74 260Z

  68. #68
    Registered User Jeff G 78's Avatar
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    Their new flanged exhaust sure is purdy. I might have to buy one for my street 280 and then add a flex coupling and resonator up front.
    Jeff
    Northville, Michigan
    IZCC #1285
    '78 280 10:1 CR, Arizona Z Car header, urethane bushings, Tokico springs, Illumina struts, Panasports w/Hankook R-S2 225/50R16 tires, Maxima 105 amp alternator
    http://www.classiczcars.com/photopos...00&ppuser=7975
    '74 260Z BRE look-alike crap can for Optima Batteries ChumpCar World Series Racing racing
    https://www.facebook.com/Jeff.Grauer

  69. #69
    Registered User warcmalla's Avatar
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    I just installed this exhaust system into my z yesterday. Added the 6 to 1 ceramic coated header and premium exhaust all at once. Header install was a quick task since I just had my intake and exhaust off recently so I didn't have to fight any stuck fasteners. The pipe portion of the installation also went smoothly with minimal wrestling of the hangers. A couple things that trouble me with the installation are the clearances in two spots. Under the differential is very tight and may contact under vibration and the clearance between the last bend going into the muffler is quite close to the rear tire. I'm running 16x8" +10 offset rims with 225s so I'm sure that is why I have such a tight clearance. I plan on crawling under there again to see if I can wiggle it over a little bit more, but ultimately I'm thinking that I will have to take it to a exhaust shop and have them tweak it a little. I might have 3/8" between the tire and exhaust pipe.
    Marc Wallace
    Kelso, WA
    1973 240z HLS30-150729
    Triple Weber 40 DCOEs
    R200 3.90
    ZX 5 speed
    GC Camber Plates and adjustable Coil-Overs.

  70. #70
    Registered User 78sid's Avatar
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    I thought mine was a little close to the tire, but I have 4 to 6 inches between the tire and pipe. Are you using the center or the corner (for lack of better description) inlet on the muffler? I believe the center is the intended inlet, but I'm not sure how you could get it that close to the tire using the center. I ended up suing a Borla muffler just to get it to fit better. Same design but slightly smaller dimensions.

  71. #71
    Registered User warcmalla's Avatar
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    I'm using the the offset side as the inlet. I fiddled around with it both ways and the offset side seemed to fit the best. I just rotated the muffler a little and it doesn't stick down that much. Either way the last bend is only a finger width from the tire. After just now crawling around underneath it I also realized that the r200 is getting in the way of the pipe and preventing it from moving away from the tire. I ground the little edge off the diff that was contacting the pipe and gained a minute amount of clearance. Now it's closer to a half inch away, but it is still touching or darn close to the differential.
    Marc Wallace
    Kelso, WA
    1973 240z HLS30-150729
    Triple Weber 40 DCOEs
    R200 3.90
    ZX 5 speed
    GC Camber Plates and adjustable Coil-Overs.

  72. #72
    Registered User Jeff G 78's Avatar
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    I just bought MSA's slip fit system for my race car. My header is an unknown brand, so I figured I would have more adjustability with the slip fit system. There is about a 4" gap between the MSA exhaust and my header collector, so I'm going to weld a short stub onto the collector and put a 3 bolt flange on the outlet. I will then add a 2.5" SS braided flex pipe with a flange on the inlet. That way, I will relieve the stress on my manifold studs and have a system that I can quickly remove if I need to pull the engine. This will also allow the system to mate up even if the collector and exhaust pipe aren't perfectly aligned.

    I'm currently in the process of getting it all mocked-up so I can buy and attach the flex pipe. I had a heck of a time getting all of the pipes to fit properly without hitting the R200, the suspension, and my modified tunnel for a lowered seat. I tried and tried to get the muffler to tuck in nicely, but no matter how I rotated it or which end I used as the inlet, it just doesn't fit that great. At least it's just my race car and I don't care if it is perfectly aligned with the valence cutout or if the pipe touches the diff from time to time. I ended up using the offset as the inlet and the center hole as the outlet. Otherwise, it fit much worse. Some instructions would have been really helpful rather than the trial and error method I used.
    Jeff
    Northville, Michigan
    IZCC #1285
    '78 280 10:1 CR, Arizona Z Car header, urethane bushings, Tokico springs, Illumina struts, Panasports w/Hankook R-S2 225/50R16 tires, Maxima 105 amp alternator
    http://www.classiczcars.com/photopos...00&ppuser=7975
    '74 260Z BRE look-alike crap can for Optima Batteries ChumpCar World Series Racing racing
    https://www.facebook.com/Jeff.Grauer

  73. #73
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    If you get tired of the look, the Borla 40659 fits like a champ.

  74. #74
    Supporting Member Diseazd's Avatar
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    Wonder what happened to X-ray anyway? He started the thread 6 years ago. I remember one thread he did where he taped a camera under his car aimed at the diff. It showed the movement of the diff under load as he rammed through the gears. I was impressed!
    Last edited by Diseazd; 06-30-2013 at 03:25 PM.
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    90 300zx and a 1996 Acura NSX.....but who's counting?

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