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Thread: Need ignition help

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    Default Need ignition help

    Hello I picked up a 9/70 Z and the previous owner said he put the battery terminals on wrong and fried something?
    The starter works and that fusible link is fine, I have lights gauges etc. but no spark.

    It has a magnetic pick up dist. with the numbers D6F4-03 7303 22100 N4301 marked on the side. It has vacuum advance and the wrong timing plate/base?

    The spark box is mounted on the firewall with HITACHI E12-12A marked on it.
    It has an 8140 Accel 12v Super stock coil.

    The previous owner said his brother put it on so I assume it's installed wrong or donít work?

    Here are some pic's of them maybe someone can identify them and suggest the correct installation or some test procedures.
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    Possible that the module (spark box) got fried. A friend of mine runs that distributor with a Chrysler module. He uses the Chrysler because the module is cheap, something like $12 at any auto parts store. I can't remember the year of the vehicle he asks for but mid 80's Dodge van with a 318 rings a bell. I understand wiring it up is pretty easy too. Power and ground then the two from the distributor.

    Just an alternative to buying a new Nissan module...

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    I believe you can also use the GM HEI module....about the same price. Doing a search should bring up the wiring diagram.

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    For one thing the dist looks rusty and in need of being cleaned, also check the air gap , looks like the rust there has reduced this to where there is none. Find out if the engine ever ran with the ignition that is in the car . It might be some sort of fix that some one has tried that dident work . Some history here will help . Other wise you just need to see if the stuff is hooked up properly . For one thing the tach must be connected to the ignition so it will fire . Others can tell you why , I just know that it is the case from my own experience .
    I'd rather die while I am living than live while I am dieing. CZC 1887 IZCC 12602 Member of NorthWest Z Car Club

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    I was hoping someone might know what year/car the Dist. and Spark box came from that way I can find some test info.
    I think the Dist. came from a early 280z (75-78?). The spark box I have no clue on and seems everyone one else is using the E12-80 as pictured below.

    I will search for the GM HEI set up on this site.

    The Black and white wire that goes to the Tach. was conected to the coil but I will check to see if it is conected to the Tach. I noticed that the Ignition key lock and the door switch's are also in line with the Tach/Coil loop. Any chance that a bad ground with one of those may be problem?

    The guy I bought the car from does not speak english very well and I dont speak Asian? So all I was able to make out from him was that it only stoped when he crossed the terminals and that his brother/freind installed the Dist/Box set up?

    I will head to the junk yard and try to find a E12-80 box since that is the cheapest.
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    The E12-80 might work, but it is actually really tiny, just a little bigger than a matchbox, and screws right onto the side of the distributor. Pretty much any module will work. All it does is sense the signal from the trigger wheel and tells the coil to fire. HEI, Chrysler, whatever.

    The air gap is a potential problem too, but if it was running before the guy hooked the battery up backwards and it isn't now, the air gap isn't the problem you're having now...

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    Just got done looking at the GM HEI conversion and it looks good.
    I noticed one person used a Accel brand one and since I have a Accel super stock coil I think I will look for one.

    Anyone have a part number for the GM/Accel part or just any GM HEI 4 pin mod. ? Also I read somewhere that the onlder 240z Tach's may not work with the HEI mod? Maybe that was for the ZX altenator swap I was also looking into? Bah! too much good info on here I get it all confused : )

    Any links to a site/write up that has clear wiring instructions?

    And thanks for the info/help.

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    The standard 4-6-8 cyl. 4 pin mod. Accel part number 35361 sells for $49.99 and the new high RPM mod. part number 35367 sells for $89.99 at the local Kragens.

    Anyone know what 74-95 GM car/trucks had the 4 pin mod's in them? I will look at the junk yard for one to see if that is the problem but dont know what car/truck to look for. Also anyone have a lead on how to test the 4 pin mod with a Multi Meter to make sure they are good?

    Thanks again.

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    THE 12-80 MODULE WILL NOT WORK WITH THIS SET UP !!! They are not cheap either , New from Nissan they are about $120.00 The cheepest I have seen them is $68.00 on line for a after market part . The 12-80 module is for a '79---83 ZX dist. and yes it does screw to the side of it. And no not just any module will work with any electronic ignition . Wrong advise . Sorry to be blunt here , but this stuff is costly and you don't want to waist the cash . Gary
    I'd rather die while I am living than live while I am dieing. CZC 1887 IZCC 12602 Member of NorthWest Z Car Club

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    Ok hate to be devils advocate here but -if I were you and dint wanna spend a lot of $$ I would get a good used set up -and a re-built stock dist. ( if you can swing it )and a good factory coil and module ect.. se where im going -accel coil is junk ,a fresh stock ignition will run a street car very very well. ive got 2 68 firebirds -with points -yes points !! and have seen some of my friends with problems using MSD stuff, accel ect.. If you buy the Gm hei and it doesnt work -youll be out some $$ and really frustrated.

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    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by beandip
    THE 12-80 MODULE WILL NOT WORK WITH THIS SET UP !!! They are not cheap either , New from Nissan they are about $120.00 The cheepest I have seen them is $68.00 on line for a after market part . The 12-80 module is for a '79---83 ZX dist. and yes it does screw to the side of it. And no not just any module will work with any electronic ignition . Wrong advise . Sorry to be blunt here , but this stuff is costly and you don't want to waist the cash . Gary
    Gary could you please explain why the signal that comes out of the distributor on a Ford or a GM or a Chrysler Hall sensor is any different from the one that comes out of a Datsun or Nissan hall sensor? Because I've SEEN the GM and Chrysler module fire a 280Z distributor and a modified L4 distributor. There is nothing "Nissan specific" about the voltage signal that the hall sensor puts out IME.

    The only problem that might come up would be a module which adjusts timing, like an E12-92. The problem with the E12-92 is that the module retards the timing, not that it won't fire the sparkplugs. I believe just about any module meant for a hall sensor that does not affect timing should work just fine.

    I'd bet $5 that if you plugged the output wires from the Z distributor into the E12-80 module and plugged it's leads into the + and - sides of the coil it would run just peachy. I do agree that the E12-80 might not be the way to go purely on a cost basis which is why I suggested the Chrysler module.

    I'm open to the idea that I'm wrong, but I'd like to know exactly WHY you think that I'm wrong on this subject.
    Last edited by jmortensen; 10-13-2005 at 07:21 PM.

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    My interest in the 12-80 mod was the fact that it has a timming curve suited to carb's or so I have heard. That and I live in Sacramento and we have one of the largest selections of dismantlers in the west. So I figured that if I could find one (12-80) cheap I could at least trouble shoot it by process of elimination.

    I like the idea of going solid state and the GM HEI rout vs points since I want to have a good daily driver and the HEI mod is easy to find at any parts store if I get stuck. If the HEI set up works well with the vacuum advance then I will just buy a new one and keep the used one for a spare but at least I will know it works.

    I am in the process of rebuilding the hydraulics since they turned to mud over the years and then I will go through the dist.

    Anyone have a good way of removing Black Widow's, webs and egg sacks from a car they dont seem to come off with a hose : )

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    Quote Originally Posted by jmortensen
    which is why I suggested the Chrysler module.
    What exact Chrysler module are you refering to? Is it the same 4 pin HEI that is used on GM's?

    If not do you have a part number or a year/make for it?

    Thanks.

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    The E12-80 module doesn't control the timing.

    The distributor that it comes on does, and it is SUPER easy to install. Basically it plugs right into your timing cover, then you jump the ballast resistor, and there are two wires. One goes to the + side of the coil, the other to the - side. That's it. If you're going to jump the ballast you'll need to upgrade the coil as well, but pretty much any aftermarket coil will work.

    You can usually get the ZX distributor with the module for ~$50 from a junkyard or ebay.

    Black widows... that's another story. I've tried Raid, carb and brake cleaner, nothing seems to slow those bitches down except a shoe. ;-)

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    Quote Originally Posted by 240zwinter
    What exact Chrysler module are you refering to? Is it the same 4 pin HEI that is used on GM's?

    If not do you have a part number or a year/make for it?

    Thanks.
    All of the early 80's V8 Chrysler products use the same module IIRC. I remember my friend asking for a module from an 83 Dodge van with a 318. But it's been years since I've talked to him and I can't remember for sure.
    Last edited by jmortensen; 10-14-2005 at 11:45 AM.

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    Ok thanks.
    I just got off the phone with the Accel tech department and found out a few things.

    The GM HEI Module (Accel 35361 and 35367) have NO RPM limit. The only difference is that the performance version (35367) that states a higher RPM range is due to the increased dwell. So a longer duration dwell is the only difference bewtween the two other than about $40.00 more.

    They stated that a Accel (8140) super stock coil is ok to use but recomemd a (8145C) coil since it is meant for point'less aplications and will deliver a higher and more accurate spark at RPM. It does get hotter and they do recomend mounting it verticaly since it is oil filled and with better air flow for a longer life. Both coils are about the same price $30.00 bucks or so?

    Note they DO NOT recomend a ballast in the coil/module/pick up loop.

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    Default pertronix ignitor

    240zwinter,
    I sent you a pm about a pertronix setup.

    -Ty

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    use a bigger hose.

    ditto on the pertronix. works like a charm.
    Bart

    5/71 240z, HLS30-31306, mostly stock, ZTherapy SU's, Pertronix, Eibach ProKit, KYB, Poly bushings, 60 amp alternator w/Dave's plug bypass, headlight and parking light harness upgrades.

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    Found that a old toilet brush grabs the webs but also found out that Black Widows can jump!!!!

    Anyway finnished the hydraulics and have the Dist. out and cleaned up a bit. Looking at the specs it seems this 280z dist has about half the advance cures of the 240z. Also it looks like it might have been peiced together as I see what appears to be point loabs on the shaft? I dont know if Datsun just carried over the same shaft and added a reluctor or what? See pic.

    The Mitches book/site only shows the 79 Dist. with the module that is attached and the stator and reluctor are different than mine so its no help. I may go and see if I can find a complete unmolested Dist. with the numbers 30100 634 673 on it since that one almost matches the good 240z Dist. advance curves and should have the newer pick up and hopefully the IC module on it as well.

    If I can not find a good Dist. anyone have a good site/link to a rebuild of a early 280z Dist.?
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmortensen
    Black widows... that's another story. I've tried Raid, carb and brake cleaner, nothing seems to slow those bitches down except a shoe. ;-)

    WD-40 with a straw and a lighter. Just spray sparingly and on target.
    Mat
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    Just got back from all 3 pick-n-pulls in my area since it was 1/2 price day : )

    I looked at every 280z, 280zx, maxima I could and almost every module was gone save for a few E12-92's that plug into the FI box.

    I found a 83 ZX Turbo that I took the almost new re-manufactured 60 amp altenator and since it was a automatic I pulled the oil pump as well. Then I found a real clean Dist. from a 81 manual trans federal ZX with only 82k on it as well as the OEM replacement coil that was on it : )

    The last thing was to find a elusive E12-80 module so the hunt began and I found one on of all cars a 1978 B210 carberated 4 cyl. car?

    So it looks like I am set for the ignition system hopefully it all works.

    I also pulled a set of headers from the same 81ZX and they are very thick steel and not rusted out. They have round ports but they should work on my E31 head?

    So a good day for me and all for under $60.00.

    A bit sore from helping my buddy take an entire front and rear drive train and suspension from a Miata for his A Mod car project.

    I will see if she will fire soon and wanted to say thanks to all who offered parts and help/info.

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    Just wanted to say that she fired up and runs real good with 5 year old gas : )

    Followed a wireing diagram from Z car home for the 280zx E12-80 set up and it works but it shows bridging the Ballast resistor rather than removing it?
    Since the ZX Dist. and coil are 12 volt why would I need to leave the resistor in the system If I am not going back to points? Is there something else that needs the resistor to be in the loop even though it is bypassed by the bridge?

    Just want to make sure before I remove it.

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    If the coil isn't originally designed for a full 12V you'll burn it out faster. If you're not sure just get an aftermarket coil and you'll be good to go. I just jumped my ballast, no reason to remove it entirely.
    Last edited by jmortensen; 10-17-2005 at 09:56 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 240zwinter
    Just wanted to say that she fired up and runs real good with 5 year old gas : )

    Followed a wireing diagram from Z car home for the 280zx E12-80 set up and it works but it shows bridging the Ballast resistor rather than removing it?
    Since the ZX Dist. and coil are 12 volt why would I need to leave the resistor in the system If I am not going back to points? Is there something else that needs the resistor to be in the loop even though it is bypassed by the bridge?

    Just want to make sure before I remove it.
    The coil form the ZX is made to have a 12v supply , nothing else uses the lower voltage . Just remove he resister and connect the two wires together. Gary
    I'd rather die while I am living than live while I am dieing. CZC 1887 IZCC 12602 Member of NorthWest Z Car Club

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    The coil is a big fat 12volt one so I will just remove the Resistor.

    Again thanks for the ignition help : )

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