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Thread: I Give Up!

  1. #1
    Registered User mmagnus's Avatar
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    Angry I Give Up!

    I wrote a couple of weeks ago about not being able to start my '70. First I thought it was plugs so i cleaned but still wouldnt start. Fuel was getting into the carbs 'cause the needle were wet when I pulled them out. So, I started on an adventure to figure out why the car wont start. So I replaced the following:

    Battery
    plugs
    wires
    cap/rotor/points
    coil.

    Still the car wouldnt start . Starter is turning fine. So I decided maybe its not getting enough fuel pumped in. So, next goes on a new fuel pump.

    SO NOW I GIVE UP! ANY OF YOU ZSPERTS (short for z experts) can give me some advice before I shoot the car I would greatly appreciate it.

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    Admin Mike's Avatar
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    Are you getting spark? Take the lead off the distributor cap and lay it on the side (near a metal object). Crank the engine and watch to make sure sparks are jumping from the lead to the metal.

    Next, remove each spark plug (one at a time) and do the same (check for spark at the plug).

    Do you have spark? If so, let's move to the next idea.
    Mike

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    Well, I'm no expert but the obvious question to ask next is this. Have you checked to see if you have a spark? Take one plug out, and lay it on the top of the valve cover and turn it over. If you have no spark then the problem could be internal to the distributor, or you might have a loose or corroded connection somewhere either in the coil or distributor wiring. Of course the odd cause could be an ignition switch that has failed. If you are getting gas into the cylinders (wet plugs) then the problem has to be electrical (ignition somewhere) so don't give up yet. It may be something really simple, could you have forgotten a wire connection? Or possibly it is loose?

    Don't shoot it whatever you do. I sold one of mine, so I have room for another one. Take your time, sit back and just look at, sometimes the answer will come to you when you aren't concentrating so hard on all the possibilities.

    Well, it's obvious I'm a slower typist than Mike is.

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    Datsaholic Mr Camouflage's Avatar
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    Have you set the points gap correctly. it should be .45 to .55 millimeters on a no emission controll engine or I think .30 to .40 on cars with emission controll gear.

    Might be a problem with the balast restistor (i think Z's have them), check there's a circuit through it.

    Hmm, what else, fuses, voltage regulator??? anyone got any ideas.

    Probably would have been easier to take it to a mechanic to find out what was wrong first before spending the cahs on a new coil, battery, plugs wires, rotor...etc.

  5. #5
    Registered User Zed's Avatar
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    Change your condenser. (ignition)

  6. #6
    Registered User 72zcar's Avatar
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    check the firing order of the plug wires 15 too young 36 too old and 24 just right
    1972 350 chevyz www.72zcar.50megs.com/

    1973 L24 www.73zcar.50megs.com/

    1972 getting ready for a 68 327 www.327z.50megs.com/

    "Nothing better than a good slut"

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    Admin Mike's Avatar
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    check the firing order of the plug wires 15 too young 36 too old and 24 just right
    That is an AWESOME way to remember the order!! I'll have to remember that one. Thanks!
    Mike

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    Peon Phacade's Avatar
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    SO NOW I GIVE UP! ANY OF YOU ZSPERTS (short for z experts) can give me some advice before I shoot the car I would greatly appreciate it.
    Some advice before you shoot the car: make certain and stand at a significant angle facing the car; that way there is less of a chance of ricochet.

    Seriously though, there really is only so much that can be wrong with a Z. You said the starter is turning. You still need to make certain you have

    -air
    -fuel
    -spark

    You said there was fuel getting to the carbs. How much? Check your fuel filter and pump. Pull the gas line off. Are you pumping any significant fuel? There may be a blockage. Pull a plug out. Leave the wire on it, and place against the head. Check for spark. No spark? Check your dist and all leads to it.

    Believe it or not, there is a perfectly logical reason its not starting.
    "Go into emptiness, strike voids, bypass his defences; hit him where he does not expect you" -Lao Tzu

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    Registered User mmagnus's Avatar
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    Well I checked for spark and each wire is arcing. Balast resistor should be ok 'cause it was replaced with the coil.

    I think this mechanic is going to hang himself from the proverbial "shade tree" UGH.

    MARK

  10. #10
    Registered User 72zcar's Avatar
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    do what Timberwolf said to do for sure.... take the hose off the metal line on the out side of the fuel pump and stick it in a milk jug. make sure you remove the coil wire at the coil so it won't try and start... like thats going to happen, and see how much gas is being pumped. It should pump out pretty good.
    1972 350 chevyz www.72zcar.50megs.com/

    1973 L24 www.73zcar.50megs.com/

    1972 getting ready for a 68 327 www.327z.50megs.com/

    "Nothing better than a good slut"

  11. #11
    Registered User 240ZX's Avatar
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    Default I give up!

    mmagnus,

    I had a similar problem with my 240Z (w/L28). I had converted the old points distributor to an electronic nissan unit, a single pick-up magnetic unit. Well, to make a long story short, the problem was the mechanical advance in the distributor.

    The engine was very difficult to start, if at all, and when I could get it to run and the rpm was above full advance it ran perfect. Anyway I'm going to a Mallory Unlite. The bummer is, it took a month to get the distributor from Mallory...Oh well!!!

  12. #12
    Registered User mmagnus's Avatar
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    thanks for the responses. I am going to try some of these ideas when I get back from vacation at the end of the month. Will let you know what it was.

    Hopefully

    Mark

  13. #13
    philo "Z" opher Zedrally's Avatar
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    Did you solve the problem?
    My 260's is showing similar problems.
    Was country driving when it just died.
    Has spark, flows fuel and I'm bugggered as to why it has just stopped!
    Replaced filter, new dist cap & rotor, still no go.
    MN
    Mike of the Mire

    73 240Z Rally
    77 260Z Touring

    Bogged but not beaten

  14. #14
    Registered User mmagnus's Avatar
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    Never did get it started. I was just trying to get it started so I could turn the car around in my garage in order for me to pull the motor anyway. I finaly gave up and pulled the motor from where it sits. Now have motor at Rebello Racing for total Hot Rod rebuild and I decided to go with Mallory Unilite electronic ignition distributor. Probably wont have it up an running 'till next year 'cause rest of car is heading for body and paint. Will keep you posted.

    Good luck on yours.

    Mark

  15. #15
    Peon Phacade's Avatar
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    Well if the 2nd part of my advice didn't work, just make certain and follow the first part of my advice on how to properly shoot your car.
    "Go into emptiness, strike voids, bypass his defences; hit him where he does not expect you" -Lao Tzu

  16. #16
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    Mark,If your trying to start the same car as the hole in the floor.It won't.You must have a tach. A bad or disconnected tach=no go. Have fun!! Daniel

  17. #17
    philo "Z" opher Zedrally's Avatar
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    Default Capacitor!!!

    Originally posted by mmagnus
    Never did get it started. I was just trying to get it started so I could turn the car around in my garage in order for me to pull the motor anyway. I finaly gave up and pulled the motor from where it sits. Now have motor at Rebello Racing for total Hot Rod rebuild and I decided to go with Mallory Unilite electronic ignition distributor. Probably wont have it up an running 'till next year 'cause rest of car is heading for body and paint. Will keep you posted.

    Good luck on yours.

    Mark
    Well I finally solved it.

    It was so fustrating that I'm posting the solution that in the unlikely event it may happen to any other poor unfortunate member.

    It was all caused by the vacuum advance.
    Just to clarify the situation as all zeds are different, my 260 came with a 280z/x hitachi distributer, so this may not apply to 240's or other 260's with similar symptoms.
    The wire at the top of the capacitor had actually broken, even though the insulation was intact and a visible inspection showing all to be OK.

    The cause of this was the vacuum advance, which, when advanced moved the capacitor against the distributor case. This over time caused stress fatigue and eventual breaking of the wire.

    Very fustrating as a check for spark indicated all to be well [admitadly, the spark was weak] when cranking over but no spark when the engine starts.

    MN
    Mike of the Mire

    73 240Z Rally
    77 260Z Touring

    Bogged but not beaten

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