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Thread: Fan & Timing Belt both snapped, Coolant Host burst

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    Default Fan & Timing Belt both snapped, Coolant Host burst

    Hi everyone. I'm new and I have a 71 240z with a L28 block / L24 head. Tonight while I was driving my fan and timing belt both snapped, and the coolant hose running from the radiator back through the firewall sprung a leak (I believe it's the hose running coolant to the heater or A/C).

    Does anyone know the parts numbers or sizes for these belts & the coolant hose? I left my car in a safe place and will need to pick up parts tomorrow. I'd search more but after having pushed my car endlessly I'm seriously worn out.

    Any help would be appreciated. Thank you.
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    Registered User Gary in NJ's Avatar
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    Welcome to the forums.

    First off, your engine doesn't have a timing belt, it has a timing chain. I assume you are referring to the FAN BELT that is attached at the engine crank pulley and drives the water pump and alternator. You may have a second belt that runs the air pump and if installed, the AC compressor.

    It's possible that your water pump may have seized. It is a very simple bolt-on repair. You can confirm this by rotating the pump flange by hand. It should rotate freely. The part should be available at your local parts store. Same for the fan belt.

    "The coolant hose running from the radiator back through the firewall"

    The heater hoses that run through the firewall are attached to the engine, not the radiator. I believe these are generic 5/8" heater hose, no special part numbers. Just cut-off a small piece and bring it to the autoparts store.
    Last edited by Gary in NJ; 02-05-2011 at 06:36 AM.
    Gary
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    If your heater hose is leaking, you can simply cut the leaking hose and move it out of the way. Then cut the good hose near the firewall and loop it to the connection that the bad hose was on. That will allow you to drive the car home, if your fixing things on the side of the road. You can see the two heater hoses in the picture below {well at least part of the two heater hoses} Or you can buy enough new heater hose at the parts store to form a loop in the engine bay. Make sure you can get the old clamps off, or pick up a couple new clamps.

    Make sure you add water to the radiator!!! Take a gallon with you...

    Changing the heater hoses at the heater core is something that you will want to have some time to do. It's a tight fit up under the dash - and a job best done in your driveway. You may want to order all three hoses from your Nissan Dealer. Two run to/from the engine and one connects the heater valve to the heater core. All three are preformed with fairly tight bends.


    Heater Hoses to/from heater core
    regulator 27118-N3300
    Intake 27181-N3000
    Output 27181-N3300
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by Carl Beck; 02-05-2011 at 07:21 AM.

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    Thus endeth the lesson about why changing all those thingies on an old car is a good thing..... unless of course one enjoys standing along side the road looking for a safe place to stash ones ride.
    Bruce Palmer
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    I know what you mean, when my mother told me i could have Dad's 77' Z, i spent a small fortune replacing all the belts and hoses before i felt safe driving it past walking distance
    4/77 280Z
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    KJP

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    Quote Originally Posted by kjphilippona View Post
    I know what you mean, when my mother told me i could have Dad's 77' Z, i spent a small fortune replacing all the belts and hoses before i felt safe driving it past walking distance
    So even hoofing it in Alabama is no fun, huh? Could get smacked in the back of the head with a pick'm up truck mirror..... or worse.
    Bruce Palmer
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    Registered User LeonV's Avatar
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    If you loop the hoses to drive home, that's fine. However, do not keep the heater hoses looped! That creates a path of least resistance for the coolant which bypasses the radiator and will overheat your engine when driving hard. TonyD has engine dyno evidence of this over on HybridZ.

    When you get home either (1) put in new heater hoses, I've done this but it was a PITA or (2) plug the heater hoses/connections at both ends.

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    240Z Elec. Upgrade guy Zs-ondabrain's Avatar
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    I Looped the rear hoses for over a month straight, at over 90 degrees outside and hi RPM driving was involved on many days of that month. Never a problem. They were looped because the heater core failed on the freeway.

    I'm not trying to be Arguementive by any means, but Every day driving and Dyno testing are almost 2 different things for most people. Dyno testing is the essencial idea of Racing in one spot. So for daily driving, looping it is fine.

    Just speaking from experience,
    Dave
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    Quote Originally Posted by colbydc5 View Post
    Hi everyone. I'm new and I have a 71 240z with a L28 block / L24 head. Tonight while I was driving my fan and timing belt both snapped, and the coolant hose running from the radiator back through the firewall sprung a leak (I believe it's the hose running coolant to the heater or A/C).

    Does anyone know the parts numbers or sizes for these belts & the coolant hose? I left my car in a safe place and will need to pick up parts tomorrow. I'd search more but after having pushed my car endlessly I'm seriously worn out.

    Any help would be appreciated. Thank you.
    If I were you, I'd replace ALL my belts and hoses, so that this doesn't happen again. As pointed out, heater hoses are generic. You can get the formed radiator hoses from your local auto supply. They can look them up on their computers. Just remember to tell them it's a NISSAN 280Z, as their computers won't have "Datsun." They might have to order the hoses in. It should take a day or two. They can also look up your belts, and they should have those in stock.

    BTW, if you have an AutoZone in your area, you can use their website to find parts. You can register your car at www.autozone.com, and then when you do a parts search, you'll find parts specific to your car. Most auto parts stores can get you most routine items for your car. Just tell them year/make/model, and they'll find almost anything you need.
    Last edited by FastWoman; 02-05-2011 at 11:19 AM.
    My last three sports cars while I still owned all three:

    2001 BMW Z3 Roadster 3.0i soft/hard top (sold)
    1966 Ford Mustang Coupe (sold)
    1978 Datsun 280Z (enjoying very much )

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    PS I saw you blog at hungry4power.com. Any relation to smokingwheels?

    http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=18631

    It's just unusual for a California car to be in such bad shape that you'd have so much rotten rubber ripping and flying on the same drive. I'd think it wouldn't have passed inspection in the first place.
    Last edited by FastWoman; 02-05-2011 at 11:30 AM.
    My last three sports cars while I still owned all three:

    2001 BMW Z3 Roadster 3.0i soft/hard top (sold)
    1966 Ford Mustang Coupe (sold)
    1978 Datsun 280Z (enjoying very much )

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    There's the faint scent of 'troll/bot' in this thread.........
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    Thanks eveyone for your advice so far I purchased new belts and hoses today and have been working on the belts and will be doing the hoses next. Will update when things come together.
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    Z geek at large FastWoman's Avatar
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    Cool! Glad you could find them in stock.
    My last three sports cars while I still owned all three:

    2001 BMW Z3 Roadster 3.0i soft/hard top (sold)
    1966 Ford Mustang Coupe (sold)
    1978 Datsun 280Z (enjoying very much )

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    Quote Originally Posted by colbydc5 View Post
    Thanks eveyone for your advice so far I purchased new belts and hoses today and have been working on the belts and will be doing the hoses next. Will update when things come together.
    Next comes Brake and Clutch Hydraulics. Worst case get 'em all flushed well with new clean fluid.
    Bruce Palmer
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gary in NJ View Post
    Welcome to the forums.

    First off, your engine doesn't have a timing belt, it has a timing chain. I assume you are referring to the FAN BELT that is attached at the engine crank pulley and drives the water pump and alternator. You may have a second belt that runs the air pump and if installed, the AC compressor.

    It's possible that your water pump may have seized. It is a very simple bolt-on repair. You can confirm this by rotating the pump flange by hand. It should rotate freely. The part should be available at your local parts store. Same for the fan belt.

    "The coolant hose running from the radiator back through the firewall"

    The heater hoses that run through the firewall are attached to the engine, not the radiator. I believe these are generic 5/8" heater hose, no special part numbers. Just cut-off a small piece and bring it to the autoparts store.
    Hi Gary, I did purchase a new water pump, but have not yet installed it. I can't see the flange for the water pump... doesn't it lie behind the fan and fan clutch? Anyway if it had seized would the car start up as normal? After I replaced the belts and hoses in question, I started the car to make sure it was running ok. Anyway I just want to make sure that the water pump is in fact where I believe it to be...
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    Hi so I got the car back running again now, though I have not driven it - just idled it so far. After wrenching on the car all day I replaced every belt, and some of the hoses. I still have more hoses to replace but I just wanted to see if the car would run ok after those fixes.

    It is idling ok, though somewhat louder. Part of the loudness is the squeaking of what I believe are the belts seating themselves as they spin around the pulleys getting snugger. This is normal right? It is my first time changing belts myself. To be honest, I'm a big n00b when it comes to much more than basic fluid / filter type maintenance. I'm also very new to the Z, having not owned it long.

    Anyway I apologize for this sort of introduction, in the help me section. I was pretty desperate after last night. I appreciate the help very much.

    FastWoman, I'm glad you checked out my blog. I'm too busy to update it regularly but I try. I'm not related to SmokingWheels, I don't know anyone on this forum yet.
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    No, your belts should not squeal. That indicates they are too loose. You must do more than hand tighten them, a pry bar is required. There should be about an inch and half of belt slack in the center of the open space between spinning things when the engine is off. Squealing is slipping. Too loose wont keep the battery charged on the alternator.
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    Quote Originally Posted by colbydc5 View Post
    Part of the loudness is the squeaking of what I believe are the belts seating themselves as they spin around the pulleys getting snugger. This is normal right?
    No. This is a very good indication of a failed water pump. The water pump is behind the fan/clutch/pulley. If you remove the fan and pulley the next step is to remove the pump. It should be replaced if the vanes are corroded and/or the bearings are making noise or if you feel the bearings drag.
    Gary
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    Lots of good advice. Sounds like your doing the right things. I can't add anything without repeating what has already been said.

    To remove the water pump, you must first remove the fan and fan clutch, then the water pump pulley. Before you remove the pulley, check to see if it spins freely and check for bearing wear. Even if it seems good, it might be prudent to change it anyway.

    The belts are squealing because they are not tight enough or because the water pump failed. I suspect a failed water pump because you said BOTH belts broke. Seldom does more than one belt fail unless there are other issues besides old belts.

    The heater hose burst because the system overheated. The system overheated because the pump failed.

    After you get this sorted out and fixed, and you know your done, replace the plain water with anti-freeze. You need the anti-freeze because it works as a water pump lubricant as well as a rust inhibitor. It is more than just anti-freeze.

    Check the engine oil too. Over heating can burn/consume oil.

    After you get it back together, run it without the radiator cap. Wait for the thermostat to open. The water level will drop as air purges itself out of the system. After you top it off, cap it. After this you need to check the reservoir each morning for a few days and add accordingly.

    Last edited by Racer_Z_; 02-06-2011 at 10:15 AM. Reason: forgot to include something

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zs-ondabrain View Post
    I Looped the rear hoses for over a month straight, at over 90 degrees outside and hi RPM driving was involved on many days of that month. Never a problem. They were looped because the heater core failed on the freeway.

    I'm not trying to be Arguementive by any means, but Every day driving and Dyno testing are almost 2 different things for most people. Dyno testing is the essencial idea of Racing in one spot. So for daily driving, looping it is fine.
    Tony's point was to show that looping the heater hose does result in a significant temperature differential between the back of the head and the thermostat. That's it. Too many people read words that are never spoken.

    For a carburreted, normally-aspirated car that is fine. For those of us running EFI and forced induction it is another matter.
    -Bo

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    I would offer a word of caution if you ever attempt to change the water pump yourself.
    Sounds like you may not have done too much wrenching and it can be costly.
    One or two of the bolts securing the waterpump are fairly fragil (long and slim). It is very easy, with a little corrosion, to snap one of these bolts off in the head.
    I would highly recommend having your mechanic doing this which may save a lot of money and aggravation for what it's worth.

    Dan

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    Thanks for the continual advice everyone. I did end up dropping the car off with my mechanic for the water pump, and they're going to check the belt tension as well. I'm going to flush all fluids and refill. Hopefully all will be well soon... I hope.
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    Let us know if the water pump was, in fact, frozen up....
    Bruce Palmer
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    I'll definitely get back to you on that.
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    So, turns out the culprit was the smog pump. My water pump is ok. I went out to purchase a new water pump but don't need it. I figure I'll keep it around since it too may someday stop. But for now, we're alright. I just removed the smog pump belt for now since it would cost more to fix that.

    Thanks for your assistance everyone! I'll get around to posting pics of the car one of these days.
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    240Z Elec. Upgrade guy Zs-ondabrain's Avatar
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    It's all in the details. you gotta remember that a lot of us don't have a smog pump. They've been disconnected or tossed years ago, or even recently.

    Glad you found the issue. I too have a new Water Pump in the box, bought it and the motor kinda died befoer I was able to instal it.

    But I'll keep it juust in case.
    Dave
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