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Thread: 1st gen seats

  1. #1
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    Default 1st gen seats

    How many different seat types came in the early Zs? Mine is a 1970 ( Nov 1969 production ) RHD Fairlady.

    My problem is the right seat was replaced at one time because it was torn

    The replacment seat has a different design around the head rest. Does anyone know what year seats would be correct?

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    Do it in a Z Mat M's Avatar
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    If I were you I would try eric@Zparts.com

    He has many seats, although not too cheap. But he want's to liquidate his stock now, so you may get lucky.
    Mat
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    Try Les Cannaday at Classic Datsun Motorsports.
    www.classicdatsun.com
    Bryan Pilati
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    Her Majesty the 26th 26th-Z's Avatar
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    Mike,

    The seats are all pretty much the same through the years. When you say the headrest design is different, do you mean the upholstery? Headrests are definitely oriented right and left, but the basic shape of them is constant. What does change is the hardware. The seats for my early cars do not flip forward or recline. They only adjust slightly via a round, hand turn knob on the inboard side. Now...you have a Fairlady and the seat hardware could be different from what was exported to America. I would doubt it, though. Have a look at Kats' site for some excellent pictures of seat restoration.

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    Mike, is the headrest on your original seat a lot thicker than the newer seat? I thought that the really early JDM cars had a thicker headrest than the 71-78 ones. Could you post some pics? Take care and good luck with the car. It's a keeper.
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    As I recall there's a difference somewhere along the line regarding the under-seat straps. Does anyone know what I'm talking about? I can't remember the details.
    -Mike
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    Yup. See below, but that doesn't affect the headrests.

    http://classiczcars.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19989
    Arne - Former owner, HLS30-37705, 7/71, 905 Red
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    Also, didn't the early seats have two little vents incorporated into the seat material, in the lumbar area?

    NovaSS, FYI I have a set of series one seats available for sale, including the slider assemblies. However, they have been recovered and have no little vents...the drivers seat has a little wear on the piping and the support webbing needs to be replaced.

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    Tom;

    Yes the original covers had metal vents in them. Took mine out in 77 when I recovered them also. They caught on your clothes and came loose. Replaced the center section with a breathable fabric instead of the vents. Like it much better. But, it is not stock if you are going that way.
    FWIW
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeW
    As I recall there's a difference somewhere along the line regarding the under-seat straps. Does anyone know what I'm talking about? I can't remember the details.
    Mike, I think the earlier seats came with a rubber type webbing that the foam seat core would rest on. Later with the 1972's (73's?) the rubber type webbing was replaced with springs so that the seat belt warning sensor would function properly.

    Another difference that Chris W. is probably aware of is that the very early seats came with a plastic shield that partially covered the front, lower, outward corner of both seats. Not too many of these exist any more. Katz has some pretty good pictures of these plastic shields.

    Steve M.

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    Her Majesty the 26th 26th-Z's Avatar
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    Yes! I am aware of the plastic seat cusion guards. Kats has the only car I have seen with them installed. I am a little seat impaired at the moment. I need whole seats as well as seat parts, but seats are way down on my list of appropriations as I focus on the body shell and suspension. I need to get a rolling chassis before I can think about sitting in it!

    Here is where I am headed, though. Original seats had metal vent grommets (4) in the seat back lumbar area. You can almost see one of them in the picture. They get very hot in the florida sun - believe me. My ex-wife has one of those cute lumbar tatoos from them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 26th-Z
    I need to get a rolling chassis before I can think about sitting in it!
    But wouldn't it be cool to be able to go sit in your car and pretend you're actually driving ...
    -Mike
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    When did Nissan stop making the seat with the vents? My early 260z came with the original seat covers before I installed replica seat covers (with the vents from too intense restoration) and they had the vents. I still have them in my closet.

    -Ben
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    Quote Originally Posted by v12horse
    When did Nissan stop making the seat with the vents? My early 260z came with the original seat covers before I installed replica seat covers (with the vents from too intense restoration) and they had the vents. I still have them in my closet.

    I was puzzled by those comments too. I pulled a seat out of a first-generation 280Z, at a yard, with the vents, and I'm pretty sure the 280 I used to own had them as well.

    Steve.

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    Still plays with cars kenz240z's Avatar
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    I just ran across a '76 280Z in a salvage yard, the seats in it still had the vents. I have a '73 and neither seat has the vents. So, I don't know if these are original or if they've been replaced/reupholstered by a PO.

    Chris, my 72 Chassis & Body Service Manual mentions changing from the standard seat to the reclining seat on page BF-27. At the top of the page it says, "The reclining seat back is furnished as an option. Reclining the seat can be made by attaching reclining device instead ofthe device for standard seat." It doesn't mention if the option is available for both seats. My car has a lever for reclining the seat on the drivers side, but not on the passengers side. Do you happen to know when the reclining option first became available?
    Kenny P.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kenz240z
    I just ran across a '76 280Z in a salvage yard, the seats in it still had the vents. I have a '73 and neither seat has the vents. So, I don't know if these are original or if they've been replaced/reupholstered by a PO.
    I'd be pretty sure they were reupholstered by a PO. There are/have been a lot of aftermarket covers that look about right, just no vents. See photo.

    Chris, my 72 Chassis & Body Service Manual mentions changing from the standard seat to the reclining seat on page BF-27. At the top of the page it says, "The reclining seat back is furnished as an option. Reclining the seat can be made by attaching reclining device instead ofthe device for standard seat." It doesn't mention if the option is available for both seats. My car has a lever for reclining the seat on the drivers side, but not on the passengers side. Do you happen to know when the reclining option first became available?
    Not Chris, but I always heard it was the '72 model year. --My 73 has the recline lever for the passenger side as well, as did my '72.

    Steve.
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    Her Majesty the 26th 26th-Z's Avatar
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    Shame on you guys for not getting out your parts books and looking this stuff up! Just comparing the black seats; the type 1 seat is listed up to 12/71 however the type 2 seat is listed up to 4/71 and from 5/71. I believe the type 2 seat was available as an domestic option, thus our import change around May of 71. They both came with four branding irons in the locations shown. The next seat change for the American market came in August 73. I found it interesting that the parts catalog doesn't say squat about the seat frame, springs, or webbing. Huh?

    Nova, your Fairlady could have a type 2 seat or a type 1. If you think it is a ZL model (I think we bantered it around some months ago, didn't we?) then the type 2 recliner seats would probably be correctest.

    Here are a couple of pictures of upholstery texture samples. The part number is in the file name.

    ZOOM-ZOOM
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    Last edited by 26th-Z; 01-14-2006 at 03:16 PM.
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    Chris, or anyone. Do you happen to know how long the plastic seat cushion guards were used on series 1 seats? Would they have been correct up through 12/70 cars?

    Dan

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    Dan,

    The seat cushion trim / guards are pretty, pretty rare. I think the only way to prove correctness would be be to research the parts manuals and see if they were included with a part reference. Kats has a very early parts book. I think HS30-H has early references also. I have never been able to come up with a part number for them. If you could find a dated parts catalog that references them, it would help determine their application.

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    Are there pictures of the plastic sheild guards in kats gallery somewhere? It seems to me my series one has a weird plasticky thing in the front corners under the seats...

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    Today's Horoscope for deadflo:

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    Just an interesting note--At one point, I'm sure my car's PO ran the front end into something, cause the seat mounts on the drivers side are 'chewed up' kinda broke from driver being thrown forward...car is fine now, and there wasn't really any damage other than bumper pushed in 1/2 inch in the center and this seat problem....

    anyways, one of my seats have the straps on the bottom, the other has a spring type matrix across the bottom.

    Believe it or not, the spring seat is more comfortable, plus I didn't have to spend any money on straps...by the way, I used bungy cords before I wanted to buy straps....bungies work real well, they seem to have been designed for the application.

    I'd really like to know what year the spring bottoms started...I'd like to get rid of the lower frame using straps and switch it with the spring bottom.
    Last edited by dogma420; 02-10-2006 at 09:00 AM.
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    See if this link to Kats' site doesn't take you to the seat part.

    http://www.geocities.jp/datsunz903/interior.html

    Here's the old thread

    http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/s...ead.php?t=9188
    Last edited by 26th-Z; 02-10-2006 at 09:06 AM.
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    Hi Guys:
    The Series II Datsun 240-Z's, aka "the Late Model 1971 Datsun 240-Z", which started production in Jan. of 1971 - came with the tilt/recline/flip forward seats. The reason being, that the tool storage was moved from the floor behind the seats, to the "tool bens" in the rear deck.

    The Factory Service Bulletin, Feb. 1971, Vol. 137 says:
    "The new 240Z features a 'Tilt" mechanism for its reclining seat. By this the seat can be tilted forward to permit easier access to the tools or baggage

    The switch was made to the spring supported seat - from the rubber strapping, about Jan. of 1972. As someone mentioned earlier - that was done so that the seat belt warning buzzer and it's seat based sensor would work.

    NovaSS - The original seats in HLS30 00020 (11/69), have a slightly courser grain to the vinyl used on them, and they do not have metal vents - also the head rest area is thicker, with softer padding. Next time I'm at the storage facility, I'll try to get a picture of them... The car only had two previous owners, before me and it only had about 65K miles on it... so I doubt the seat covers were every replaced... #20 also came from the Factory with no carpet - vinyl mats were used.


    FWIW,
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    Her Majesty the 26th 26th-Z's Avatar
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    Carl,

    If your seats do not have vents in them, they aren't original. You may recall that the seats had a tendency to rip on the side bolster. Many, many people complained about the vents. At two previous owners and 65k miles, I would suspect replacement. Original 1969 American import seats had vents.

    Chris
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    of the Silver Shield Soc. dogma420's Avatar
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    well, on the strap note being for early cars, I am not sure if the base is useable on a steel spring bottom (use straps on a steel for authenticity if needed to)....if they aren't interchangeable, I have a strap bottom I would trade for a steel bottom if someone needs the strap bottom for a show car, etc....

    doubt it, but you never know. I have the whole recline seat upper as well...I could break down to just metal and ship (strap clips that attach to square tube base would be included).

    Anybody have a steel bottom they want to sell me? It is a more comfortable, not to mention longer lasting original style seat solution.

    Thanks!
    --Dave aka Dogma420 My Gallery
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    Quote Originally Posted by 26th-Z
    Kats has a very early parts book. I think HS30-H has early references also. I have never been able to come up with a part number for them. If you could find a dated parts catalog that references them, it would help determine their application.
    Chris
    Just to follow this up - I have searched for the part numbers of the seat cushion 'guards' and I too drew a blank.

    The earliest Japanese parts lists I have ( dated November 1969 ) show them in the illustrations but don't give part numbers. This is surprising, as just about every other single nut, bolt and component of the seats is listed. Same situation with the RHD Export parts lists.

    The Japanese market 'Service Shuho' booklets ( issued to the dealers to clue them up on the new models ) also have illustrations that explain the seats and their workings. The seat guards can be seen, but are not mentioned.

    My *guess* is that they were already decided to be surplus to requirements by the time the parts catalogs, Service Shuho booklets and factory workshop manuals were being compiled.

    But I'll keep my eyes open.

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    Do it in a Z Mat M's Avatar
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    IF anyone's interested, there is a pair of '71 seats on Ebay for $50. The ad reads that they are stock, but they don't have the vents.
    http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1971-...QQcmdZViewItem
    Mat
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    on the subject of early Z seats, I have two seats in my 1970 Fairlady Z (JDM) that have vertical stitching I have not seen before.
    At this moment I dont' have good pictures of them. I can get some soon. The driver's seat is severely damaged so I'd like to replace it or get it fixed.
    I have a replacement passenger 240Z seat with horizontal stitching for right now.
    any thoughts on these?
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  30. #30
    1971 240Z for sale RolfSis's Avatar
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    Ours is a 1971 240Z, and only one of the seat elements was ruined from years in the California sun, and that was the bottom of the driver's seat. We had a lot of estimates and none was below $160 just for that one bottom cushion. Since we're selling our family jewel, didn't want to increase the selling price any further, so I spent the last two weeks 'fixing/patching' that original '71 seat. Here's a link to the work done, and it may not be the most prized of possessions, but then, the '71 is and we've managed to sit pretty/sit comfy and maintain the original seat set-up. It's been really interesting as well as challenging, but my hubby helped me through all this and it works for us. Environmentally sound to boot. .

    http://www.asta.bizhosting.com/image...Seat-fix42.JPG Here you see how the sun blasted the stitching on just that cushion

    Here you see the various steps to fix/patch/repair. Needless to say, it's a fix, not brand new, but is adjustable to height, and works well for us.

    http://www.asta.bizhosting.com/OctoberUpdates-2.htm

    I guess I'd ask, given the info learned from this thread, what does it take to keep the "original" validly called "original"? In my case, would it have been "original" if I had purchased replacement parts instead vs. patching up the originals to legitimately be called "original" ???

    Thanks bunches,
    ":0)
    Love the Z
    Ours is a 1971 240z with a 260z engine for sale (California native) VIN HLS3028499 Asta

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    Administrator bpilati's Avatar
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    I guess NovaSS lost interest in his question. Maybe we should stop answering. Carl, my seats are the non-reclining type with support straps under the cushions, obviously they had a large supply of these to last a long time.
    Bryan Pilati
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    1971 240Z for sale RolfSis's Avatar
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    Thank you for your response here, Bryan. I guess you're right on spot! Asker disappeared. Boo hoo. Not sure how I found this thread to reactivate it, but thought it to be worthy of checking out. Your '71 looks so good! Ours has a VIN# fairly close to yours with HLS30-28499 .... so guessing our '71 is a bit older than yours, no?
    ":0)
    Love the Z
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    Since this thread was revived, it got me thinking. So I checked my new Z, and I'll be damned if my passenger side seat doesn't have plastic guard everyone was talking about.

    In this case, I'd like to say that I am interested now in a drivers side guard, so if you have one, let me know.

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    ***PREVIOUSLY OWNED***
    1970 Datsun 240Z
    HLS30-01704
    71,000 Original Miles

    - Jon

  34. #34
    Mike B
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    Quote Originally Posted by JonnyRock View Post
    Since this thread was revived, it got me thinking. So I checked my new Z, and I'll be damned if my passenger side seat doesn't have plastic guard everyone was talking about.

    In this case, I'd like to say that I am interested now in a drivers side guard, so if you have one, let me know.

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    You must have a very early 1970 to have those seats guards. What is your VIN #? I think you will find that these seat guards are unobtainable, since they were on so few cars and were damaged fairly easily and discarded. We need someone to make good reproductions of a set, but the market would be so small that it would be difficult for someone to take that project on. I think Will (hls30.com) has talked about trying to make some, but he needs a set to make a mold from. I know I would be in for several sets if that ever happens.

    -Mike

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    mine was manufactured 02/70. it's #1704
    ***PREVIOUSLY OWNED***
    1970 Datsun 240Z
    HLS30-01704
    71,000 Original Miles

    - Jon

  36. #36
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    My 2/70 #1841 also has the seat guards.
    Steve Golik
    Huntsville, AL
    1970 240Z
    1974 260Z
    1979 810 Hardtop
    2008 G37S
    "35 years of Z car ownership"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike B View Post
    You must have a very early 1970 to have those seats guards. What is your VIN #? I think you will find that these seat guards are unobtainable, since they were on so few cars and were damaged fairly easily and discarded. We need someone to make good reproductions of a set, but the market would be so small that it would be difficult for someone to take that project on. I think Will (hls30.com) has talked about trying to make some, but he needs a set to make a mold from. I know I would be in for several sets if that ever happens.

    -Mike
    Yup! I am hoping to beg, borrow, temporarily appropriate at least one for use as a model. I have pictures and some measurements from Kats, but in making a truly faithful reproduction, nothing beat having an example to pattern from and to. If anyone has an example or set I can borrow, I'll send you a set of reproductions with the return of your originals, and put that project ahead of all others to make the turnaround fast.
    Will
    A Z is beautiful from any angle, I just happen to prefer to view from the drivers' seat!

  38. #38
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    William,
    I have a driver's side I would be willing to loan out. Do you have any experience manufacturing plastic trim? How long would you need my part?
    Thanks,
    Keith

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    and I'd be willing to lend you my passenger side. how serious are you about this?
    -jon
    ***PREVIOUSLY OWNED***
    1970 Datsun 240Z
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    71,000 Original Miles

    - Jon

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    Quote Originally Posted by 26th-Z View Post
    Yes! I am aware of the plastic seat cusion guards. Kats has the only car I have seen with them installed. I am a little seat impaired at the moment. I need whole seats as well as seat parts, but seats are way down on my list of appropriations as I focus on the body shell and suspension. I need to get a rolling chassis before I can think about sitting in it!

    Here is where I am headed, though. Original seats had metal vent grommets (4) in the seat back lumbar area. You can almost see one of them in the picture. They get very hot in the florida sun - believe me. My ex-wife has one of those cute lumbar tatoos from them.
    What plastic seat cushion guards, you mean the clear ones between vinyl and hardware? I have those on my seats.
    Last edited by bpilati; 11-28-2007 at 04:07 PM.
    Bryan Pilati
    1971 Datsun 240Z (8/71; 920 paint)
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    I'm never serious unless I should be.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bpilati View Post
    What plastic seat cushion guards, you mean the clear ones between vinyl and hardware? I have those on my seats.
    No, look at the pictures in post 33, Bryan. Only the very earliest cars came with these, neither your car nor any of mine are old enough to have come with what these guys are talking about.
    Arne - Former owner, HLS30-37705, 7/71, 905 Red
    Car blogs - 240Z - Porsche 911

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    I've both passenger and driver side units. The driver's side is cracked, but the passenger side is whole.

    Regards,
    First & Third owner of HLS30-00721
    B. 01/70 D. 03/12

    New owner of HLS30-15653
    B. 12/70 D.

    Frank in Houston, Texas

  43. #43
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    Well hopefully we'll get together to get these replicated and you can get a new one for the drivers seat Frank.

    BTW, I'm amazed that you bought back the same car 30 years later. Did you sell it to someone you knew?
    ***PREVIOUSLY OWNED***
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    - Jon

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    Oh I see. I have guard envy.
    Bryan Pilati
    1971 Datsun 240Z (8/71; 920 paint)
    IZCC #583; TZCC #16; CZC #110
    I'm never serious unless I should be.

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    JonnyRock...yes, I did. He was about my age, too, which makes it nice. He really treasured the car for 30 years. Only saw one wet road during that time. Garaged constantly.

    I had the opportunity to give him a couple of parade laps at a track day event two weeks ago. He commented that this was only the second time he'd ever ridden in the right seat, and the first time, I was driving, too. If you want to read more, see the category just above "Misc." and look for a subject called "First Z and Last". The whole scene is laid out there.

    Update: See "Z stories" category

    Regards,
    Last edited by d240zx2; 11-29-2007 at 04:53 PM. Reason: Updated information
    First & Third owner of HLS30-00721
    B. 01/70 D. 03/12

    New owner of HLS30-15653
    B. 12/70 D.

    Frank in Houston, Texas

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    Some how I managed to miss the questions. Thanks To MikeB for pointing that out to me this morning.
    I have several years of molding experience as a hobbiest. I have done a healthy number of lost wax castings, green sand castings, ceramic, and even a few styrofoam castings. I have made over 40 molds of small plastic parts, and simply not found a suitable material to cast them with-if they can't survive the South Ga. sun, without chalking or deforming I haven't considered the material to be the right one. Having said that, I have found what I believe to be the "right" material, and am waiting on a delivery of it early next week.
    The materials I use to make molds leave no trace, residue, and unless there is damage in shipment. When you get your part back, you will not be able to tell anything (except maybe a good cleaning) was done to it-unless it was a damaged example. and you want it repaired in the process.
    I am planning a marathon mold making effort starting Monday(12/16/07) and hope to get most if not all of my plastic parts cleaned, repaired-if necessary-and take a mold from them. In addition I am hoping to make several molds for the metal parts I have been holding. I am going to spend the majority of the week on this.

    I am also in negotiation for having an overseas company cast several of the metal parts from the molds I am making. Many of you know the story on the first round of having the headlight covers made, the molds were the problem. If I make and prove them by casting a single example locally(EXPENSIVE), then I can ship them overseas and have them cast in the same material for unbelievably less, and have part of them made in Ohio, they could be available soon!
    Will
    Will

    PS,
    I will be showing off the results at the end of the week, in a thread, and hopefully in a video.
    Last edited by hls30.com; 12-16-2007 at 01:23 PM.
    A Z is beautiful from any angle, I just happen to prefer to view from the drivers' seat!

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    Default first gen seats

    i am looking for 1st gen seats color blue thank you carl h havertown,pa

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    I forgot to address the question on the length of time I would need the parts-no more than one week-This is not nearly as intensive as copying manuals, and then verifying them and correcting issues.
    My process is as follows.
    1) Evaluate the original item to be reproduced
    2) Clean the original
    3) Repair Original if the owner wants it repaired-then start again with #1
    3A) If the owner didn't want the original repaired, make a mold of the part as is...
    3B) Cast a copy of the damaged original and repair the copy and start again with #1
    4) Bed up the part and make a one, two, three or four part mold-depending entirely on the relief in the part. Most parts require a two part mold, larger parts(a console, large trim panel) are much easier to de-mold in multi part molds.
    The mold material I use sets up in 24 hours, so there is one full day in making and demolding a single part mold, add another day for each additional part required to complete the mold.
    5) When the mold is complete and the original de-molded, I verify the success of the mold by casting two or three parts in a quick cure material to make 100% certian there are no issues with the mold-this takes a couple/three hours.
    6) If there are issues with the mold, I start again, if not, box up the original part and return it to its owner-along with a pair of reproductions!

    It all boils down to it takes from two days to a week to make and verify a mold, but several can be made at the same time by bedding several parts requiring the same type of molds together...
    WIll
    Last edited by hls30.com; 12-16-2007 at 01:26 PM.
    A Z is beautiful from any angle, I just happen to prefer to view from the drivers' seat!

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