Loop pile carpet, any recent purchases? (2008)

[Arne]

I'm getting ready to replace the carpet in my red 240Z. I want to stay with the original style loop pile carpet, rather than the more modern cut pile. So far, I've found at least three suppliers for the loop pile, MSA, Too Intense and Datsun Spirit. Has anyone bought any loop carpet from any of these vendors recently? If so, what was the quality of the carpet kit? Did it come with replacement jute?

[dkd021]

Well, I just ordered a 5-piece loop pile carpet set from Too Intense Restoration on Wednesday so I expect to get it sometime in the middle of next week. I can post a few pics if you want when I get it. If you'e a zcar member then he offers you 10% off.

[Arne]

Please do report back once you get it.

[V8-240Z]

I bought my loop pile from my 71 from 1A Auto. It has a rubber backing and was edge stitched and fit the Z well.
http://www.1aauto.com/1A/Carpets/Dat...CS02700/558226

[xray]

I bought my loop pile from my 71 from 1A Auto. It has a rubber backing and was edge stitched and fit the Z well.
http://www.1aauto.com/1A/Carpets/Dat...CS02700/558226

Pics? Detail of edge stitching? Presence of slots for luggage straps? Padding quality?

Thanks,
Steve

[V8-240Z]

Pics? Detail of edge stitching? Presence of slots for luggage straps? Padding quality?
Thanks,
Steve

It is edge stitched and padded with a thick jute padding. Its shape is perfect for the areas it covers. There were no luggage strap slots. The quality of what I got was really good.

[Montezuma]

I checked out Les' kit at Classic Datsun while I was there on Monday...he sells the modern cut pile, which I must say was a really nice kit. I too perfer the more original loop style. I asked about it but he said he used the cut pile in the cars he did for Nissan several years ago so he only sells that. The thing I noticed on his kit was there was no slots for on the or snaps on them. I had one of those cheaper loop kits in the car before without the slots and snaps the floor mat moved all the time...it sucked. I found a set of almost worn out original type with the snaps and slots....much better now.

[Arne]

Yeah, I know that Les' cut pile is nice, I would prefer the loop. Keep the comments coming...

[beandip]

Arne , send Scanlon a email. He recently bought some for his Roadster. Gary

[Bonzi Lon]

Just got my "Loop Pile" this week from MSA very good looking. It is edge stiched but no slots for the straps, which can be cut where needed. It came with padding but not the original rubber backing but a scrap thread/material type stuff about 1/2 inch thick glued to it. I would like to remove that and use my original jute but may be a mess removing it. It has a heavy rubber heel pad for the driver and came with a set of snaps to install where needed up front. Overall very pleased with it but won't have it installed for another month or so.
If I can get the camera to work I will post a few photos.

Bonzi Lon

[Bonzi Lon]

The first photo shows the difference in the backing, left is original with rubber backing, right is new, both have edge stiching but a little different. I think the jute would hold up better than the thread/cloth type backing on the new.

Second photo is the passenger side that DOES NOT have slits cut for the metal hold downs near the seat edge, original DOES have the slits and are edge wrapped. I will have to cut slits and edge them myself. The snaps that came with the kit will have to be installed where needed. I'll put snaps in first then cut the slits for the hold downs. Metal clips shown for reference.

The third photo shows the new hatch area carpet and there are quite a few differences from original. The original just has slits cut (no edging) for the luggage straps near the tool boxes but near the tail lights there are slits that HAVE BEEN edge wrapped for the straps. Also the original has semi-circle cut outs that fit neatly around the fuel evaporator hoses, the new one DOES NOT. When it comes to fitment time we will see if this needs to be trimmed or it might fit without cutting and edge wrapping, I doubt as it would be all bunched up under the interior rear panel.

Hope this helps clear things up.

Bonzi Lon

[Zup]

Bonzi---

Very helpful as I too am going to need carpet.
Thanks for the pictures and description----especially the mention of the metal carpet clips.
I have inquired about these clips with Arne and Charlie Osborne, but neither was familiar with them.
I have 2 but need 2 (or more) more.
If anyone reading this has a line on them I'd appreciate it if ya'd give me a shout.
Again Bonzi---thanks!
This is the kind of feedback that really helps in making decisions about where to buy and what to expect!

Jim D.
"Zup"

[Arne]

Yes, let's talk about the metal clips. Now that I see them in Bonzi's picture, it looks like they have one curved leg that would press up against the tab on the floor. A neat idea. Now I want some too, so if anyone has a source for these, or has a set of 4 they'd like to sell, I'm interested.

Close up pictures of these clips would be nice, as well.

[Arne]

Found the clips on the parts CD. The part number is 74995-E4100, the description is "CLIP - SPRING FRONT FLOOR TRIM".

[Bonzi Lon]

Here are 2 photos of the clips in question. My camera seems to be myopic today but you can see what they look like. They fit under the tab welded to the floor. They are 2 5/8" long by 1 7/8" wide and the lift is about 1/4" and were clad plate but a little rusty now. If they were bunnies I'd have them make some sets for you guys.

Bonzi Lon

[ktm]

Folks, the "jute" padding that comes with the MSA kit is utter crap. I replaced all of that padding with some nice 6 lb/sf material from Home Depot. I used the same 6 lb/sf material for the tranny tunnel vinyl after I ripped out all of the decrepit, smelly horsehair jute.

[xray]

Bo,

I heard that about the carpet padding, thanks for conifrming. I bought a set of carpet from CDM, forgetting it was cut pile. The padding looked similar to MSA's but was well-bonded to the carpet and was probably of better quality based on your report...

All the carpets look the same in photos, but with variable pricing...Is there a single vendor? That's what I want to know.

[Bonzi Lon]

The MSA kit DID NOT come with a true "jute" backing but a thread/material type stuff (as in dryer lint) as noted in post 11 and as Bo mentioned. The "ORIGINAL JUTE" that came with the car is of much better quality and heavier and appears more water resistant than the "stuff" that is on the new kit. Like I said I will try to remove the thread/material stuff and use my "Original Jute" as it is in excelent condition including the tranny tunnel.
When I first saw this type of backing I had a feeling it would not hold up as it just pulls away in pieces (like dryer lint) except where glued.

Funk & Wagnall's--jute, 1. A tall annual Asian herb of the linden family. 2. The soft, lusterous fiber obtained from the inner bark of this plant, (Corchorus capsularis or C. olitorius).

Therefore, the backing that is on the new kit CAN NOT be called "jute", but is really floor sweeps from a cloth factory.

Bonzi Lon

[ktm]

Dryer lint and floor sweeps from a cloth factory are apt descriptions of the "jute" that is attached to the MSA carpet kits.

[xray]

Don't knock MSA for that...It's pretty standard stuff for carpet padding. Not defending poor quality materials, just saying it's not limited to just one vendor.

This is as close as I could find to the definitive jute discussion:
http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/s...highlight=jute

No one commented on a good source, I wonder if there are any updates?

[zed2]

Unfortunately, the original "horse hair" jute was NLA many years ago. Nissan superseded the material with a compressed padding.

I believe this the jute is similar to the Nissan material.

http://www.lebaronbonney.com/osc/cat...roducts_id=191
Keith

[cunniwj]

I replaced mine with the MSA. My oringinal jute just flaked away after all the years. The MSA's might be different but if it lasts half the amount time my oringinal did that's fine with me. I'll be long gone by then.

[ktm]

Steven, I am not knocking MSA for the padding as they do not manufacture the kit. MSA is just a reseller. However, the padding itself is deserving of our scorn.

I'll also add, like others have said, that the MSA rear deck carpet piece did not come with the luggage strap slits. When I mentioned this to Sal one day (MSA is 1 mile from my office), he said that they were aware of the problem and looking for a new vendor. I doubt this went very far since his departure.

I cut slits in my carpet for the luggage straps as is shown below. Disregard the wrinkle in the carpet between the shock towers. When I put the spare tire back into the car, the tire cover was slightly warped and thus sticking up causing that wrinkle. I have since removed the tire and the carpet lies flat now.

[justinr54321]

I've been doing a little reading of jute material, and some vendors offer what's called a "MASS BACK" option, a black, rubberized backing that is thicker and a little more sound proofing than the original jute material. Does anyone have any experience with this? Just a though/suggestion of one of the options that could be used. Here is a link to one of the vendors that offer it. I don't know if its offered with our carpeting kit, have not had a chance to call them to find out.

http://www.1aauto.com/help_center/faq/carpet.html#q10

That is the FAQ section of the vendor, and they also offer a carpeting kit for our Zs.

Justin

[Arne]

Actually, my existing jute is in quite nice shape, and could easily be re-used. So the type and quality of the padding is a secondary concern. I'm more concerned with the fit, quality of the carpet itself and the bound edges, and whether the strap slots are pre-cut and bound (or not bound).

So far, the MSA kit looks acceptable. Yes, the padding is sub-optimal, and fit at the back of the cargo area is not as OE, but probably will work.

The kit that Dave got from 1A-Auto sounds OK as well, probably similar to the MSA kit. Definitely less money than any of the others, although price isn't really an issue since all are within $50 or so of each other. I'd love to see some pictures of this one.

I'm very interested to see what the kit from Too Intense looks like. The (admittedly very small) picture on their site appears to show a more involved shape to the cargo area carpet.

The Datsun Spirit kit seems to be an unknown, so far. They do have a nice, large picture, but the cut doesn't seem to be as detailed as the Too Intense pictures.

[Mike B]

Arne, I bought a set of loop carpet from Too Intense last summer. It looks and sounds to be the same as the MSA kit (bound edges, no cut outs for attachment points or cargo straps, same crappy threaded backing). This appears to the be same kit most places sell. So is the Classicdatsun pile carpet better quality? He also lists a wool carpet, but no prices listed for that.

-Mike

[Arne]

I've been doing a little reading of jute material, and some vendors offer what's called a "MASS BACK" option, a black, rubberized backing that is thicker and a little more sound proofing than the original jute material.

http://www.1aauto.com/help_center/faq/carpet.html#q10

The FAQ implies that the Mass Back option is only available on cut pile carpets, not loop pile. Worth looking into, but might not be an option for those of us who want loop pile carpet.

[Arne]

So is the Classicdatsun pile carpet better quality?

I can't say from personal experience. But Jim (a7dz) bought a kit from Les last Fall, and after working with Les a bit to get a better fit, he said he was very pleased with the carpet and fit. I'll send him an e-mail, maybe he'll chime in on this thread.

[Mike B]

...and after working with Les a bit to get a better fit...

How did he work with him to get a better fit? Was it custom made, or did Jim send it back and he trimmed it up and rebound it?

-Mike

[justinr54321]

Anyone have any experience with this site? Looks like they provide you with additional jute material for your vehicle.

http://www.auto-interior.com/datsun1.html

Justin

[Arne]

How did he work with him to get a better fit? Was it custom made, or did Jim send it back and he trimmed it up and rebound it?

-Mike

The first set Jim got did not cover the entire floor area, IIRC the front pieces were too narrow. I'm not sure if this was because of an error in manufacturing, or perhaps a side effect of the floor pan replacement in Jim's car. Jim returned the first set and included templates he made for the floor of his car, and Les sent him a replacement set in very short order cut to spec.

[a7dz]

The first set Jim got did not cover the entire floor area, IIRC the front pieces were too narrow. I'm not sure if this was because of an error in manufacturing, or perhaps a side effect of the floor pan replacement in Jim's car. Jim returned the first set and included templates he made for the floor of his car, and Les sent him a replacement set in very short order cut to spec.

The carpet was miss cut. The floor pans were the correct size. Yes, I was pleased with both the fit and the service provided.

[JROME]

Question on the carpeting. On my 71 there was loop cut pile from the factory. I've had had the car since 72. When did Nissan start using loop pile for the carpets?

[Arne]

Found the clips on the parts CD. The part number is 74995-E4100, the description is "CLIP - SPRING FRONT FLOOR TRIM".

My dealer told me these are NLA, and a dealer inventory search turned up NADA!

[240dkw]

Yes, let's talk about the metal clips. Now that I see them in Bonzi's picture, it looks like they have one curved leg that would press up against the tab on the floor. A neat idea. Now I want some too, so if anyone has a source for these, or has a set of 4 they'd like to sell, I'm interested.

Arne: I have a set of four if you want them, PM me. They are in about the same condition as the ones that Bonzi Lon has.
Dan

[dkd021]

I got my loop carpet kit from TIR about a week ago. It's um, ok...I guess. It's a little thin & the backing is glued on. I don't fault the seller, & it wasn't overly expensive. It just sounds like there's limited options when it comes to purchasing reproduction carpet for S30s. I'm guessing that maybe there's only one manufacturer of this repro carpet, with only a few more resellers.

[bpilati]

I'm getting ready to replace the carpet in my red 240Z. I want to stay with the original style loop pile carpet, rather than the more modern cut pile. So far, I've found at least three suppliers for the loop pile, MSA, Too Intense and Datsun Spirit. Has anyone bought any loop carpet from any of these vendors recently? If so, what was the quality of the carpet kit? Did it come with replacement jute?

I just purchased the black carpet kit from Classic Datsun Motorsports. It's OEM spec.

[xray]

I just purchased the black carpet kit from Classic Datsun Motorsports. It's OEM spec.

Hmm. When I bought a set 10 or so months ago it was cut pile, which is definitely not OEM. Have they begun selling loop pile now?

BTW, I contacted DatsunSpirit via email about their carpet set ($230). They state they use a different supplier than VB/MSA/TIR. No cutouts for luggage straps, and comes with a jute underpadding (which I presume to be similar to all the other underpadding and not a horsehair-type jute.) The pattern is not correct (based on the pics), so I'm not sure I'd spend the extra $$$ for it.

FWIW

[a7dz]

I just purchased the black carpet kit from Classic Datsun Motorsports. It's OEM spec.

The carpets in the kit I bought from CDM were not the loop that came in the 70. Do not have the snaps at the firewall and are missing the slots under the seats that keep these from sliding back and forth as you drive.

There is a Z clip under the front edge of the seat that gets broken or is not replaced with the floor pans. I replaced them in this car.

Note: I knew all of these things before I bought the carpet and I am happy with what I was shipped. I am happy with the look but, It is not OEM. I will use velcro on the bottom of the carpet to keep it in place.

[Arne]

Well, the carpet in my car is still original. Very faded and worn, but original. So when Danny mentioned above about the thinness of the TIR carpet I had to laugh. Because trust me, the original was not what I would call high quality in any way. I would also describe the original as, um, ok...I guess.

I will admit that I'm not thrilled about the idea of the backing being glued on. I may have to try the kit from Datsun Spirit just to see what the differences are.

[Mike B]

Hey Arne,

Can you post some pics of the front and back of your original carpet? I have a couple of different pieces that I am not sure if they are original or not. If they are not original, they seem to at least be a higher quality than what is available now.

-Mike

[Zup]

It is unbelievable that this is so difficult to get right.
All of these "restoration" suppliers should easily be able to demand proper pattern and type replacement carpet/floor mat sets from their suppliers.
There's nothing magical about loop carpet or getting the placement of cutouts right, or getting a proper surging of the edges.
It's not like we are tring to get these for extreme cheap----$235 for replacement isn't a wallet killer, but it isn't chickenfeed either.


What the hell is going on here?!?

Not that I am doing one, but how are people getting concours restorations done that meet the mark??
Has anyone talked to Mike McGinness at Banzai?
What has Charlie at Zeddfindings had to say? He's a judge for cris-ake!

Judging from the quality of the reproduction work that Bryan (LBO730) did on the shift boots and handbrake covers I 'd be up for asking him to do the work for me. I've got original carpets that are good enough as patterns with all the proper cutouts, etc. and he has demonstrated his ability!
Surely this carpet wouldn't be a limitation for a leatherworker/upholsterer that knows his stuff!!

Should this become a "group buy"??

Why don't we have these anyway????
Knowledgeable people use this site daily as reference for their "works in progress", yet we never have shown the organization and purchasing power shown on TT.net or HybridZ.com


My devalued 1/2 centavo/penny/rupee---

Jim D.
"Zup"

[xray]

Jim,

I'd participate in a group buy. Maybe there's a good upholstery shop near you where you can take the carpet pattern for replication...There's a shop here, but I don't have a reasonable carpet set to take with me.

Let me know if i can help.

[Montezuma]

It is unbelievable that this is so difficult to get right.
All of these "restoration" suppliers should easily be able to demand proper pattern and type replacement carpet/floor mat sets from their suppliers.
There's nothing magical about loop carpet or getting the placement of cutouts right, or getting a proper surging of the edges.
It's not like we are tring to get these for extreme cheap----$235 for replacement isn't a wallet killer, but it isn't chickenfeed either.


What the hell is going on here?!?

Not that I am doing one, but how are people getting concours restorations done that meet the mark??
Has anyone talked to Mike McGinness at Banzai?
What has Charlie at Zeddfindings had to say? He's a judge for cris-ake!

Judging from the quality of the reproduction work that Bryan (LBO730) did on the shift boots and handbrake covers I 'd be up for asking him to do the work for me. I've got original carpets that are good enough as patterns with all the proper cutouts, etc. and he has demonstrated his ability!
Surely this carpet wouldn't be a limitation for a leatherworker/upholsterer that knows his stuff!!

Should this become a "group buy"??

Why don't we have these anyway????
Knowledgeable people use this site daily as reference for their "works in progress", yet we never have shown the organization and purchasing power shown on TT.net or HybridZ.com


My devalued 1/2 centavo/penny/rupee---

Jim D.
"Zup"

This is what I was thinking too....I don't get it. Why can we not have exact knock-offs of the original style carpet for a 240? Are we asking for too much? Besides how can someone have a 100 pt car if you can't get the right carpet? All I want is a carpet kit with rear deck carpet that has the slots for the tool kits and carpets that do not have the jutting attached and have the snaps and hold done holes sewn open.

[Arne]

Hey Arne,

Can you post some pics of the front and back of your original carpet? I have a couple of different pieces that I am not sure if they are original or not. If they are not original, they seem to at least be a higher quality than what is available now.

I'll try to remember to do in a few days. Remind me if I forget, Mike. But also remember that my red car is a late Series 2, and so mine won't look like the carpet on #237.

It is unbelievable that this is so difficult to get right.
All of these "restoration" suppliers should easily be able to demand proper pattern and type replacement carpet/floor mat sets from their suppliers.
There's nothing magical about loop carpet or getting the placement of cutouts right, or getting a proper surging of the edges.
It's not like we are tring to get these for extreme cheap----$235 for replacement isn't a wallet killer, but it isn't chickenfeed either.

Very true. You'd think that one of these shops would demand the right stuff. But we apparently haven't seen it yet.

Not that I am doing one, but how are people getting concours restorations done that meet the mark??

Good question. I'm not particularly after concours, but I DO want as close as I can get to original.

Has anyone talked to Mike McGinness at Banzai?

Yup. He recommended I talk to Datsun SPirit, IIRC.

What has Charlie at Zeddfindings had to say? He's a judge for cris-ake!

Haven't tried Charlie.

Judging from the quality of the reproduction work that Bryan (LBO730) did on the shift boots and handbrake covers I 'd be up for asking him to do the work for me. I've got original carpets that are good enough as patterns with all the proper cutouts, etc. and he has demonstrated his ability!
Surely this carpet wouldn't be a limitation for a leatherworker/upholsterer that knows his stuff!!

Should this become a "group buy"??

I'm game...

[Montezuma]

Good question. I'm not particularly after concours, but I DO want as close as I can get to original.

Yup. He recommended I talk to Datsun SPirit, IIRC.

Speaking of Datsun Spirit, we got a kit coming in today from Datsun Spirit for a 1978. I will review the quality of it for you tonight or tomorrow. I really like dealing with Eiji, his communication was fantastic. Datsun Spirit was the only company offering the 9 piece replacement kit for the 78.

[xray]

I have an email in to Zedd Findings, so I'll post back when I hear something.

Here's the reply I got from Datsun Spirit:


"Steve


You would cut out the strap cutouts. There will be snaps to be attach to the floor mats. Carpets come with under jute paddings.
We go through our own manufacturer.

Datsun Spirit, Inc
----- Original Message -----

Dear Sir,

I am writing to ask about your five-piece sectional 240Z carpet set. Is it a more accurate replication with cutouts for luggage straps? does it have the snaps on the front seat sections? Is it from the same supplier that MSA and Too Intense Restorations get their carpet set? What is the type and appearance of the underpadding?

Thanks,
Steve"

[Alex 240Z]

For the people who have already purchased carpets has anyone tried to make the cut outs for the rear carpet cargo straps ? I definetly like to get some measurements to I could get the cuts out done so I could put the cargo straps where they belong

[AZ-240z]

It

. I've got original carpets that are good enough as patterns with all the proper cutouts, etc. and he has demonstrated his ability!
Surely this carpet wouldn't be a limitation for a leatherworker/upholsterer that knows his stuff!!


Jim D.
"Zup"

Jim,

I am thinking of reproducing the correct carpets for my 1/71 series 1 car but need to find good original carpet pieces for correct patterns. The carpet pieces that go behind the seats and around the black plastic tool and jack covers are particularly challenging as the pattern seems to have changed depending on whether the car was an early series 1 or late series 1.
What vin or build date car did your original pieces come from if you don't mind my asking? My car, also, has the two L shaped brackets just in front of the seats on both sides to secure the foot well carpets. The carpet there will have rectangular holes for these which need to be surge bound. Finding someone with a surging machine that car do closed openings like this is also challenging.

Dan

[Arne]

For the people who have already purchased carpets has anyone tried to make the cut outs for the rear carpet cargo straps ? I definetly like to get some measurements to I could get the cuts out done so I could put the cargo straps where they belong

Just to clarify here -- we ARE all talking about the pair of rectangular notches in the rear-most edge of the carpet where the luggage straps attach, are we not?

[Carl Beck]

- - - - - - - - - -
240-Z CARPET FASTENERS
Bulletin Number TS72-56, June 13,1972

Predelivery Service: To keep the front floor carpet in position, four fasterners are now included in each 240-Z. These fasteners are in the glove compartment of each car, and must be installed at the pre-delivery inspection according to the illustration.

Beginning Serial Number: HLS30-77533
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

That would be a build date of 04/72 and later....

Just an FYI...
FWIW,
Carl B.

[Arne]

Aha!! So the reason that none of us with earlier cars had the vaunted carpet clips was that Datsun didn't supply them until much later! Considering the history of my car, I thought it odd that all four of mine should be MIA.

[Carl Beck]

For the people who have already purchased carpets has anyone tried to make the cut outs for the rear carpet cargo straps ? I definetly like to get some measurements to I could get the cuts out done so I could put the cargo straps where they belong

I'm not certain when - but the early cars had cut-out's for the luggage straps, and later cars simply had holes for the mounting screws to go though, with the fasteners on top of the carpet. I noticed this on my early production 72 Z (11/71).

FWIW,
Carl B.

[Arne]

I'm not certain when - but the early cars had cut-out's for the luggage straps, and later cars simply had holes for the mounting screws to go though, with the fasteners on top of the carpet. I noticed this on my early production 72 Z (11/71).

FWIW,
Carl B.

My late production '71 (7/71) also just has holes for the screws at the front of the straps, not cut-outs. But there are also rectangular notches in the rear edge of the carpet for the straps at the rear. I notice that most pictures of replacement carpet do not have those notches.

[westpak]

FWIW here are pics of mine which I assume are original from 02/71, it is really faded but in decent enough shape I am going to try dying them

[xray]

Arne,

Yes, I'm talking about the notches cut into the rear edge of the deck carpet where the straps are attached. My original carpet was long gone when I got it, so I wasn't certain how the front straps were attached through the carpet (individual holes or a longer slot). Based on what was described, my 5/72 probably had holes for the front mounts but notches cut into the rear part of the carpet.

The photo of the carpet kit on MSA's website (and in the catalog) used to depict those notches, but the pic has been removed from the site.

Edit: Thanks for posting those pics, Westpak... How are those front clips attached to the carpet?

[westpak]

the front strap clips are held in by two phillips screws that go right in those two small holes and screw into the body

[Arne]

FWIW here are pics of mine which I assume are original from 02/71, it is really faded but in decent enough shape I am going to try dying them

Looks identical to mine (7/71), although mine may be slightly less faded.

[westpak]

Looks identical to mine (7/71), although mine may be slightly less faded.

when I took it out there was so much dust on it that I choked, I have been vacuuming it after that picture an swear it looks darker.

The backing is in rough shape and some small damages on the carpet itself, I am thinking of finding a place around here to see if they can fix it or maybe even using it for a mold to make new ones. Here in south florida you have a lot of good people with all of the south/central americans, no insult to anyone I am Colombian myself.

[Alex 240Z]

I also was talking about the front where the metal clips go too !! Did not realize that screws actually went through the carpet to install the clips thanks for clarifing that Carl and thanks for the photos of your original carpet Gus. Just have to check to the cut out in the rear of the car for the staps

[Z Speed]

Oops, sorry for the double post. Please see below;

[Z Speed]

Arne,

Yes, I'm talking about the notches cut into the rear edge of the deck carpet where the straps are attached. My original carpet was long gone when I got it, so I wasn't certain how the front straps were attached through the carpet (individual holes or a longer slot). Based on what was described, my 5/72 probably had holes for the front mounts but notches cut into the rear part of the carpet.

The photo of the carpet kit on MSA's website (and in the catalog) used to depict those notches, but the pic has been removed from the site.

Edit: Thanks for posting those pics, Westpak... How are those front clips attached to the carpet?

Steve, my "72" was also produced 5/72. I still have all the original carpet/jute in my car except for the drivers side front floor board. It isn't faded either. The carpet is the same style/mount as the photo's westpak posted. I pulled the car out of the garage this weekend and took some photos. I pulled all the carpet except the rear deck. I should post them sometime soon.....

P.S. My 5/72 has the (2) notches cut out in the rear (by the tail lights) of the carpet….

Here are 3 photos. Pardon the dirt. I never cleaned the inside and this is years of grime. You can see the screw mounts in the carpet:

[Zup]

My 7/70, 10/70, and 2/73 build date cars have the L shaped metal clips on the front floorpans just in front of the seat mounting brackets to hold the Metal Carpet CLIPS that I mentioned to Arne and that BonziLon provided pictures of. These protrude up through serged cutouts in the carpets and the clips installed under the L shaped floorpan clips to hold the carpet and keep it from sliding. The firewall end of the front carpet was fastened by 2 female snap halves clinched onto the carpet and 2 corresponding male snap halve studs that were mounted on the firewall insulator near the juncture of the firewall/floorpan.
Both the early cars had unsplit rear deck carpet (storage covers behind the seats----not pockets in the deck) with factory installed screw positions for the cargo straps in the rear deck metal. serged cutouts for this end, and notches cut and serged for the straps as shown by westpak at the rearmost end.
The 2/73, of course, had the split for access to the storage bins, cut outs in the carpet that were unserged (the metal end screwed directly to the deck), and the notches at the rear for the cargo straps which were serged.
The carpet pieces that went behind the front seats have a seam where it was cut and then resewn to make it conform to the rise in the floorpan as it meets the rear deck forward wall (riser).

AZ-240---I can't say that what I have is original to either of the early Series1 cars when it comes to the pieces around the storage bins. I do have some pieces that go there, but they may have come from later series 240's.
Surely someone out there has an early car that has the real deal from which patterns could be made. Surging shouldn't be a big deal if the upholsterer has the proper machine. It's just a side to side stitch, but it does have to be closely spaced to look original.
Sorry I can't provide pictures of all of this, as my camera isn't very good and most of the carpet is at my storage building across town.

I'm not buying any carpet until this is resolved. My next move is to get in touch with Bryan (LBO370) and see if he is equipped and willing to take the project on.

Thanks to all for the contributions to this thread as it may have stirred the interest for us to get the "right stuff" once and for ever!


Jim D.
"Zup"

[bpilati]

I'm not certain when - but the early cars had cut-out's for the luggage straps, and later cars simply had holes for the mounting screws to go though, with the fasteners on top of the carpet. I noticed this on my early production 72 Z (11/71).

FWIW,
Carl B.

I believe I had to take the screws loose to take the carpet out of mine. I couldn't get to the carpet because it's stored, but the rubber/foam backing is very dry and cracking.

[Mike B]

I am going to post some various carpet pics for comparision. This carpet is in my low mileage 5/72 (a series 3 car). It is in like new condition. Notice the more defined loops and the grey backing, which are different than what I have seen in earlier cars.

-Mike

[Mike B]

The are pictures of early carpet. The first three pics are from an 11/69 production car. The rubber mat is unique to some of the 69 cars. The other pics are from a 5/70 (this carpet is currently in my #237). Notice the clear backing and less defined loops (not just from wear) on both.

-Mike

[Mike B]

This is some very faded carpet from a 3/71 (an early series 2) parts car I got recently. It has the same clear backing as the earlier carpet, but the cargo straps are lower and there are flaps for the jack and tool storage compartments.

-Mike

[Mike B]

This is the carpet from Too Intense Restoration for the series 1 cars. Bound edges, but no cut outs for the cargo straps, it is much lighter (maybe because it doesn't have the spray on back coating), it has the back padding made of colored threads, and the pattern is not as accurate as the original.

-Mike

[Mike B]

These are the front floor mats from another 1972. I forgot to take pictures of the ones in my 5/72 before it got dark, but these are the same style. Note the brown backing.

-Mike

[Arne]

This is some very faded carpet from a 3/71 (an early series 2) parts car I got recently. It has the same clear backing as the earlier carpet, but the cargo straps are lower and there are flaps for the jack and tool storage compartments.

-Mike

I can confirm that the faded and worn carpet in my 7/71 cat is the same as the pictures Mike provided from the 3/71 car.

[Zup]

MikeB---

Thanks for posting those pictures. They are the same as what I had tried to clumsely convey in previous posts. In particular are pictures three and four of the first group--it shows the cut made and then resewn to get it to conform to the rise behind the seats toward the rear.
The carpet I have in storage is similar to both the styles of original you have shown.
Some is rubber backed from the later car and the other is the smoother, more like plastic backed from the early car. All of the cutouts and notches match up to what I remember. Thanks again!

I sent off a letter to Bryan Owens (LBO370) today asking if he could/would be interested in fashioning repro's. He's the guy that did the great job last year of fashioning the early style shift boots and handbrake covers that everyone liked so much.
It'll take a few days for it to get there and I'll post up his response for those that are interested.

Warmer weather-----YES!!!!!

Jim D.
"Zup"

[Carl Beck]

-


I sent off a letter to Bryan Owens (LBO370) today asking if he could/would be interested in fashioning repro's.

Hi Jim:
repro's of what? or for which?


1. The early cars - Oct. 69 to who knows when.... These cars do not have the cross brace between the rear seat mounts on the floorboards. So the piece of carpet that goes under the seat is quite different than the later production cars. These cars do not have the tabs on the front floorboards that hold the front carpet in place either (ie keep it from bunching up under the brake and accel. pedals)

2. The Later Series I and II cars - with the brace across the the floorboard, behind the rear seat mounts, and the tool bins in the floor of the rear deck. . These car do have the tabs on the front floorboards...

Picture Below: later 70 carpet on the Left and 69 carpet on the right.

Also it is going to be hard to find the exact same loop pile today...it's out there and you can bet it would be $65.00 per yard. So with labor, binding, and the cost of materials - you might be able to get it done for under $600.00 per set.
FWIW,
Carl B.

[Montezuma]

Good question. I'm not particularly after concours, but I DO want as close as I can get to original.

Yup. He recommended I talk to Datsun SPirit, IIRC.

Speaking of Datsun Spirit, we got a kit coming in today from Datsun Spirit for a 1978. I will review the quality of it for you tonight or tomorrow. I really like dealing with Eiji, his communication was fantastic. Datsun Spirit was the only company offering the 9 piece replacement kit for the 78.

Yesterday we got the 9 piece kit from Datsun Spirit; it is a great kit, the material is just like the factory original, a real high quality kit. I know Arne is asking about 240 kits and the 9 piece kit we got is for a 280, I am just testifying to the workmanship, quality of product and customer service of Datsun Spirit. Eiji delivered a great product for the 280, I would recommend his 280 to anyone wanting the factory original look. I might get my 240 kit from him as well now that I see what his product is like.

[rhochisociety]

I have a 1977 280Z with brown carpet, I would be interested in your luck with dying the carpet, what you use etc. This brown carpet is not a common as the black and I want to get the color right.

[AZ-240z]

[QUOTE=Carl Beck;248193]Hi Jim:
repro's of what? or for which?


1. The early cars - Oct. 69 to who knows when.... These cars do not have the cross brace between the rear seat mounts on the floorboards. So the piece of carpet that goes under the seat is quite different than the later production cars. These cars do not have the tabs on the front floorboards that hold the front carpet in place either (ie keep it from bunching up under the brake and accel. pedals)

2. The Later Series I and II cars - with the brace across the the floorboard, behind the rear seat mounts, and the tool bins in the floor of the rear deck. . These car do have the tabs on the front floorboards...

Carl, this is exactly the information I have been looking for. I have been unsure as to the correct pattern for the carpet pieces both behind the seats, and in the foot wells, with cross braces behind rear seat mounts, and front floorboard tabs. From your attached picture, the carpet does go over that cross brace and partially under the seat.

It will be very hard to find the same loop pile without a good sample for comparison. Is there correct verbage to describe this loop pile as understood in the trade? By that I mean size of loop, number of loops per square inch, depth of pile, correct backing material for weave integrity, etc.? I hope, someday, to find an original piece of loop pile carpet to make a good comparison.

[Montezuma]

I have a 1977 280Z with brown carpet, I would be interested in your luck with dying the carpet, what you use etc. This brown carpet is not a common as the black and I want to get the color right.

Call Datsun Spirit, I bet he can get you the brown carpet you want.

[Arne]

It will be very hard to find the same loop pile without a good sample for comparison. Is there correct verbage to describe this loop pile as understood in the trade? By that I mean size of loop, number of loops per square inch, depth of pile, correct backing material for weave integrity, etc.? I hope, someday, to find an original piece of loop pile carpet to make a good comparison.

A complication is that there appears to have been a change in the loop pile as well. Go back and look at the pictures Mike B posted. The earliest cars had a loop pile that was very obvious as loop. Later cars (including mine) have a denser loop that almost appears (at first glance) to be cut pile. And who knows when that change was made.

As for me, I'm rather disappointed in the selection. The two problems that stand out for me are the lack of the cut and bound notches at the rear of the deck carpet for the straps, and the lack of bound slots in the front pieces for the retainers near the seats. I could put up with a difference in style of loop, and other small differences if these two major items were addressed.

The thing is, if we look back in time, it certainly appears as though the kits that MSA and TIR sold in the past were far more accurate. The pictures on TIR's website and in MSA'a catalog show a more detailed template was used. Note things like the slot for the accelerator stop, instead of a missing corner. Apparently that supplier went out of business. Both MSA and TIR had to find another supplier, quite probably the same one. In fact, judging from Dave's description early in this thread, it wouldn't surprise me a bit to find that both MSA and TIR get their kits from A1Auto Carpet.

Eiji says his kits are from a different supplier, but the template used appears to be the same. (Carpet may be better quality, I don't know.) I've also been in contact with Z Specialties, and it appears their kit is similar to these others, if not the same.

That seems to sum it up so far. I'm discouraged, but still looking.

[westpak]

OK I did a bunch of looking around and I found the following sites with carpets in addition to MSA, TIR, Datsun Spirit and A1Auto, I am a newbie so not sure if there is history/information about these I am not aware of that you guys may already now about.

http://classicdatsun.com/new/240Zcarpet.html
http://www.auto-interior.com/datsun1.html#240Z
http://qualitycarinterior.com/view-b...0z-carpet.html (no pics but descriptions and differentiate between model years)
http://www.datsunstore.com/index.php/cPath/1_19 (no pics either but very detailed explanation of carpet and options)

[Arne]

OK I did a bunch of looking around and I found the following sites with carpets in addition to MSA, TIR, Datsun Spirit and A1Auto, I am a newbie so not sure if there is history/information about these I am not aware of that you guys may already now about.

http://classicdatsun.com/new/240Zcarpet.html
http://www.auto-interior.com/datsun1.html#240Z
http://qualitycarinterior.com/view-b...0z-carpet.html (no pics but descriptions and differentiate between model years)
http://www.datsunstore.com/index.php/cPath/1_19 (no pics either but very detailed explanation of carpet and options)

Classic Datsun is CDM. Nice looking cut, not available in loop pile. Otherwise very nice, and may be what I end up with.

The next two look similar to A1Auto, even to the description of the type of loop, and the availability of the heavier 'mass backing'. Since none of these three outfits claim to make them in-house, I wonder if they all use the same base supplier. No idea, but I strongly doubt that either of those would address the issues we've discussed here.

The last (www.datsunstore.com) is Z Specialties, as mentioned in my last post. Attached is a picture they sent of their kit.

[AZ-240z]

The are pictures of early carpet. The first three pics are from an 11/69 production car. The rubber mat is unique to some of the 69 cars. The other pics are from a 5/70 (this carpet is currently in my #237). Notice the clear backing and less defined loops (not just from wear) on both.

-Mike

Mike, great pictures of both the early carpet and later examples. You have been able to jar my old persons early memory of what my car had when new.
My car is a 1/71 series 1 and had the carpet with clear backing as you have shown.
I am a little confused by the comments of some as to how the luggage straps were secured at the forward edge just behind the luggage riser panel. I am quite certain that mine originally was secured with screws through the strap bracket and through the carpet. There were no holes , slits, or surged openings through which the straps ran to be secured to the bare deck surface.
Also, the forward most edge of the carpet was not surged, and extended up the back of the luggage riser panel and held in place by the plastic riser trim strip.

Dan

[bpilati]

I checked out Les' kit at Classic Datsun while I was there on Monday...he sells the modern cut pile, which I must say was a really nice kit. I too perfer the more original loop style. I asked about it but he said he used the cut pile in the cars he did for Nissan several years ago so he only sells that. The thing I noticed on his kit was there was no slots for on the or snaps on them. I had one of those cheaper loop kits in the car before without the slots and snaps the floor mat moved all the time...it sucked. I found a set of almost worn out original type with the snaps and slots....much better now.

I was unaware of this, because it does not say on the website. It says sewn to original specifications, which I mistakenly took to mean made like the original carpet. Apparently Nissan approved the change for the Z Store program.

[a7dz]

I was unaware of this, because it does not say on the website. It says sewn to original specifications, which I mistakenly took to mean made like the original carpet. Apparently Nissan approved the change for the Z Store program.

See post thirty nine it explains this.

[AZ-240z]

Found the clips on the parts CD. The part number is 74995-E4100, the description is "CLIP - SPRING FRONT FLOOR TRIM".

Arne,
Nice find on the part number of this clip. I noticed that the picture you attached from the parts CD shown it installed on the cargo deck in some way.
Is this the same part used for the carpet in front of the seats? Is the same part used somewhere on the rear cargo deck? I have noticed that sometimes the CD is not totally accurate as to where they shown parts.
Thanks, Arne for any thoughts.
Dan

[Arne]

Arne,
Nice find on the part number of this clip. I noticed that the picture you attached from the parts CD shown it installed on the cargo deck in some way.
Is this the same part used for the carpet in front of the seats? Is the same part used somewhere on the rear cargo deck? I have noticed that sometimes the CD is not totally accurate as to where they shown parts.
Thanks, Arne for any thoughts.
Dan

As best I can tell, the clips were only used in front of the seats, not on the deck at all. The illustration is ambiguous at best.

[AZ-240z]

As best I can tell, the clips were only used in front of the seats, not on the deck at all. The illustration is ambiguous at best.

Arne,
That's pretty much what I was thinking, but appreciate your confirming it.

Dan

[geezer]

I have been following this thread with interest and am in the same camp as Dan, looking for the closest to original as possible for my late "Series 1". I was a bit mystified with what is correct and found the examples helpful. I removed my original carpeting and saved it for later reference, but it has vanished, along with my original shift boot. It will turn up when I no longer need it. I do remember the luggage strap brackets were screwed down directly on top of the carpet. There was no slit and the forward edge was not surge bound, IIRC, only held by the plastic "U channel". Makes sense since access to the tool/jack storage wasn't from the top of the deck on a "Series 1". So, it seems we are divided, as too what is correct for us, depending on build date. That makes it all the more difficult to find someone to cut & edge bind carpeting to our specifications, although the "series 1" would be easier to do on the rear deck piece. I would like to get an idea of how many of us would be in the market for the correct loop pile for each of our particular "Series". That information would determine if it is economically feasible for someone to take on the task and produce them somewhat affordable or not. So far it seems most are willing to make do with what is available.

[Zup]

Ron---
to get the ball rolling I'd be up for 2 sets if done correctly with the details we are discussing. One for an early (7/70 with no splits on the rear deck) and one for a 71 with the splits.
If we don't try seriously, we can only then accept what is offered, not what we want.
We will find someone to do it.
There is only the questions of when and who.
The sourcing of the carpet is important, and anyone that finds the "right stuff"-- please let it be known.
Jot me down as a holdout.
A snippet from an e-mail that I sent Arne---

My granddad was an upholsterer, among many things, and his machine could do this. It wasn't cam operated and wouldn't mass produce anything. It did have his skill to operate it and could accept many weights of fabric. I'm hoping to find someone with his ability and with an old time machine that isn't made to do one thing.

Has anyone contacted Chester and Herod?

http://http://autockm.com/

They claim to have been in business since 1948 and have patterns for Datsun/Nissan. They appear to be an amalgam of automated machines and attention to hand done detail work.

Keep looking and posting!

Jim d.
"Zup"

[Arne]

No, I haven't contacted Chester & Herod, but have been exchanging e-mails with a Z vendor about this. Since I'm already in talks with one supplier, I'll leave it to someone else to contact C&H.

Regarding my talks, I now no longer believe that all these kits are made by the same manufacturer. The vendor I'm working with actually has two different suppliers that he deals with, depending on what kits you want. I don't want to name the vendor yet, until we figure out what the final kit will be like.

But I can say that the vendor and his supplier are open to suggestions, and that it appears almost certain that they will soon add the notches at the rear of the deck carpet to their 240Z loop pile kit. I believe that the padding material will remain the same as it is now, though. We are still looking at options for pre-cut slits for the front retainers by the seats. Those are currently not cut, although snaps for the front are included.

More details as I get them.

[xray]

Arne,

Thanks for making contact...I'm waiting with cash in hand for a decent carpet set. In re padding/jute material--weren't they placed separately (non-glued) for the floors and rear deck? If we have just the carpet, without any underpadding, we can add the padding on our own as we see fit..ostensibly waiting for a supplier to surface with near-correct horsehair style jute.

Might make things easier with you your supplier


Zup,

That link doesn't work...too many https

http://autockm.com/

[bpilati]

Les at CDM told me that these are the same kits they used in the Z Store restoration program for Nissan. Why would Nissan approve kits that are not loop pile and do not have the rear slots for the metal floor tabs or the front snaps? I guess I could take the kit to an upholstery shop and have them sew in the slots, and I could add the snaps. Looks like the Datsun Spirit kits covers even the vinyl portions of the interior floor.

[Arne]

Les at CDM told me that these are the same kits they used in the Z Store restoration program for Nissan. Why would Nissan approve kits that are not loop pile and do not have the rear slots for the metal floor tabs or the front snaps?

Because the Z Store program was never about originality, it was about marketing. If they were concerned with originality that would have kept the original engines matched to the cars.

[Oiluj]

I appreciate those who are building cars to be as close to original stock as possible. Years ago I helped a co-worker build a 66 Mustang for show. It's insane how much detail and expense is involved in producing a competitive car, right down to the level of orange peel in the paint and over-spray in the engine compartment. It's a real challenge to get those last few points...

My take is that unless you are building a car "for show", it's more important to have good looking, durable carpet it is than being 100% correct.

On my previous Z what I did was use indoor-outdoor loop carpet. It had a nice backing and did a good job at helping to deaden sound & vibration, but it was a bit heavier.

I cut it out myself using the old carpet as a pattern, improving the fit where required. I then had a local upholstery guy bind the edges. I plan to do the same on my current car. It won't be "show" stock, but then I'm not building a show car... While it will be mostly stock, I'm building a "the way I want it" car...

[Carl Beck]

Because the Z Store program was never about originality, it was about marketing. If they were concerned with originality that would have kept the original engines matched to the cars.

Hi Arne:
Of the cars we've found - only a couple do not have their original engines. That is because the original engine from them had some problems that prevented proper overhaul.. ie cracked block, scared cylinder wall etc.

Since we haven't Registered all 38 of them - I don't know what the exact percentage will turn out to be... but it would seem that every reasonable effort was made to keep the original engines in the cars.

FWIW,
Carl B.

[Oiluj]

There were only 38 factory Z program restorations? I thought there would have been more. Lack of sales demand or just loss of interest at Nissan?

[dkd021]

Lack of quality shells, cost to actually do the jobs was too high, etc. from what I've read.

[bpilati]

A 2003 240Z would have sold millions, but they didn't listen.

[Zup]

Got into the storage unit and pulled out an old carpet from the 7/70.
Shown are examples of the serged cutouts, etc.
The label has an original Japanese character and reads 46.10.1 (poor resolution camera )

The heel pad and cutouts for the carpet clips were sewn before the jute was applied, then the jute backing was sewn together with the carpet as the carpet was serged on the outside edges.
As can be seen, the carpet was a loop type pile.

I am sendng a sample to Bryan Owens (LBO370) so he can source the carpet and determine if he can serge the openings, etc.

Stay tuned if you have interest.

Jim D.
"Zup"

[bpilati]

Okay I had a talk with Les. He says that it wasn't so straight forward in the beginning as people might think. During the Z Store restorations, Nissan went out and bought the best Z's they could find, and apparently these were very original in their condition. Some came with loop pile and some with cut pile. The first Z's imported came with rubber mats only, and Mr K had carpet kits made by Chester & Herod using the rubber mats as templates. Apparently most loop pile was found on the east coast and but pile on the west coast. Loop pile is consider cheaper carpet. Now back in Japan they made the carpet kits using what they had available and wool carpets were showing up. I think Les said wool carpets are cut pile. Anyway, this is how I remember it, so don't shoot the messenger.

[Arne]

Okay I had a talk with Les. He says that it wasn't so straight forward in the beginning as people might think. During the Z Store restorations, Nissan went out and bought the best Z's they could find, and apparently these were very original in their condition. Some came with loop pile and some with cut pile. The first Z's imported came with rubber mats only, and Mr K had carpet kits made by Chester & Herod using the rubber mats as templates. Apparently most loop pile was found on the east coast and but pile on the west coast. Loop pile is consider cheaper carpet. Now back in Japan they made the carpet kits using what they had available and wool carpets were showing up. I think Les said wool carpets are cut pile. Anyway, this is how I remember it, so don't shoot the messenger.

Shoot the messenger? Not hardly, Bryan. What you posted here makes huge sense. After all, why should we think there would be any consistency in the carpet style and materials in 240Zs? Nothing else was consistent.

Shoot, everyone always says that 240Zs should have loop pile carpet. But there are obviously varying degrees of "loop-ness" to the carpet. The pictures of the different carpets posted in this thread show that clearly. Look at the pictures Jim posted just above -- very "loopy". The pictures from Mike's '72 look to have pretty defined loops too. Yet some of the '71s (like mine) show some loop-effect, yet the overall effect is almost that of plush cut pile. Heck, I had thought for months after I bought the car that mine were replacements, simply because it wasn't an obvious loop pile carpet. Only recently did it become apparent that mine are still original as well. This certainly supports Les' statement that "...back in Japan they made the carpet kits using what they had available..." as we are seeing the direct evidence in pictures here.

This truly complicates my choice of replacement carpet. If I want to maintain the original style of my car as close as possible (and I do), loop carpet may not be my best choice. I may want to go with cut pile on mine to be as close as possible to what it came with. Because cut pile may look closer to my original than loop. Pictures of mine are attached.

The heel pad and cutouts for the carpet clips were sewn before the jute was applied, then the jute backing was sewn together with the carpet as the carpet was serged on the outside edges.
As can be seen, the carpet was a loop type pile.

Not only does the pile on mine not match yours, Jim, the jute is not stitched to the carpet at all, but is separate. I can remove my carpet and the jute still lays in the car.

The label has an original Japanese character and reads 46.10.1 (poor resolution camera )

I'm thinking of selling my current camera to get a new one, Jim. Le tme know and I'll make you a deal!

[rtaylor]

Arne, my jute is not attached to the carpet either. This on a 2/71 car.