Site CONSENSUS on early Z with V8 transplant
I ask to the well verse Z aficionados , I lately have seen some real clean early Z's with late LS1/LS2 GM engine transplant and ask , does this increase or decrease the value on this Japanese classic car .
The question cannot be answered. If the car is old and original and in good shape, a collector might place a high value on originality. So a V8 transplant would lower value. If the car is old and modified and rusty and beat up, a collector might not want it anyway, so a V8 transplant might add value, by turning it in to a fast car that's fun to drive.
Value is determined by the guy with the money.
1976 280Z, with some minor modifications
^^^ What about a real clean early Z, it has to have a solid foundation in order to do such modification ( engine,transmission, rear end, brake upgrade/suspension etc ) , not a rust bucket .
Last edited by Z fan; 07-23-2014 at 11:39 AM.
No change. It really is all about the guy with money. Plus, "V8" can mean almost anything. An old 80's era GM 305 would almost certainly lower value. A high performance LSX with proper engine management might increase the value just because the powertrain is worth more than the car.
I do know that I often see Z cars with V8's for sale on CL, for $10K or more and they sit there for months or even years. If it's not a top-notch,professional quality job, it's just somebody else's project, that they got tired of or realized was not as fun as they thought it would be. And the sellers always think the car is worth a lot of money because it has a V8, and they always describe how they've invested way more than the sale prices. A V8 swap is not a money-making investment.
Without a name and a reputation behind the transplant, any V8 swapped car is nothing special. They sell kits, anybody can do it. I would rather do a swap myself than buy someone else's work.
1976 280Z, with some minor modifications
^^^ So a well documented/sorted/professional transplanted work on an early Z , where does it seats on Z current values.
I considered an engine swap. Among those options were ford 5.0, LS1 and a VQ35. Realistically i was going for 250 to 300hp which a basic junkyard v8 could provide with minor effort. Ultimately i found it more cost effective and infinitely easier to buy a worked up inline 6 as a direct drop in replacement and meet the same power goals.
Early 1974 260z
https://sites.google.com/a/thecomputerrehab.com/260z/
With these cars - value is in the eye of the beholder.
Now if you were dropping a v8 in a Ferrari- then you might worry about values
Steve
71 240z,bw-5sp 2.4-40 over,balanced,e-88,big valves,ported&polished, stage2,header, triple Mikuni's 40's
3.90 Subaru STI LSD
Funny you mentioned a V8 in a Ferrari as I was driving a 348 ts yesterday. Sexy as hell from the outside, a pain in the azz to get in and out of and the amount of room they left over for the three pedals is really, really small. Then add a gated shifter and it becomes a problem all in itself.
if a little knowledge can make you dangerous, I'm a little dangerous
These are the type of Z's with a GM LS1/LS2 I am making a reference ===are they worth more or less in comparison to a stock early Z in similar condition.
Last edited by Z fan; 07-24-2014 at 06:39 PM.
Again it comes down to the person. For me they are worth less. All I see is money I would have to spend to remove the V8's and return everything to stock. But for other people it would be worth more money. As stated before if it is a very well done swap it would be worth more to a smaller group of people who understand what it would cost to do it and want a V8. I think there would be more demand for a stock car in that shape than a V8.
The "Rule of Thumb" tends to be that you NEVER get back what you put into a restoration either stock or restomod. Maybe 50 cents on the dollar if you're lucky. The finished product may be priceless to the owner, but not to potential buyers. Your query asks for a tangible answer to an intangible question. You'll get opinions, but no definitive answers, and as they say, "Opinions are like belly buttons. Everybody has one.".
Soooooo, while it's a thought and debate provoking question, there is no answer. You're comparing unequals with too many variables. In reference to the V8 Zs in the pictures above, the real answer to your question is that they may or may not be worth more than a nicely restored early Z. It's in the eye, and wallet, of the beholder.
Dennis
1971 240Z - Original Owner
2010 Infiniti G37 Convertible
Dennis,
Another pearl of wisdom; and
just when I thought the SoCal sun
might be getting the better of you.
Mike
Mike,
You're right about the sun, so I got out of the desert for the summer. Much cooler here in Lake Arrowhead and it helps the lucid thinking process
Dennis
1971 240Z - Original Owner
2010 Infiniti G37 Convertible
^^^ A modern engine transplant may or may not be a deterrent factor on value in an early Z , is a restomod clean early Z in the same league as a restomoded American Muscle Classic Car that at times commands more money than an original specimen . I ask.
Last edited by Z fan; 07-25-2014 at 04:52 AM.
Other than the thought that 8 is sexier than 6, why not a drive train from an Infiniti G35 or G37?
We routinely have totaled cars with reasonable mileage coming up for sale for around $3.5K. Find one with rear end damage and you have engine, rear wheel drive train, electronics and wire harness in a single package. A quick, easy way to get 300+ HP.
Oh, if 300 HP isn't enough, there are turbocharging or supercharging kits readily available.
Last edited by djwarner; 07-25-2014 at 06:12 AM.
1971 240Z HLS30A 17574 L24-021025
The GM V8 on a Z have been done from day one,lots of info on transplant plus there are kits for engine/transmission/rear differential swap on shelves .Originally Posted by djwarner
Last edited by Z fan; 07-25-2014 at 06:19 AM.
I guess you have forgotten or don't know about the Scarab. The earliest of V8 transplants. Today, Scarabs are worth very big bucks - in line with the finest of restored / original early cars. I don't think much of a V8 transplant, especially the more contemporary versions. Do an archive search for discussions about Scarabs.
Enjoy the Ride
HLS30-00026
HLS30-00027
http://home.earthlink.net/~cwenzel/index.html
Go Gators
Go Butler Bulldogs
@ 26th-z is that the for djwarner. The thread topic is clearly stated on the first post.
Last edited by Z fan; 07-25-2014 at 06:36 AM.
I don't understand what you are talking about.
Enjoy the Ride
HLS30-00026
HLS30-00027
http://home.earthlink.net/~cwenzel/index.html
Go Gators
Go Butler Bulldogs
I see the guy who built all the Scarabs in England at the VRG race events and I think Dan or someone should interview him.
if a little knowledge can make you dangerous, I'm a little dangerous
I would like to hear from him as well.
I am aware of the Scarab Z's. I don't disparage V8's in our cars, but the Nissan 3.5's and 3.7's are no slouches. Besides keeping the Z's pure Nissan, there are several advantages to these engines/transmissions with modern fuel injection, tunable ECUs, and modern fuel compatibility.
You can buy an LS crate engine, mate a transmission, drive shaft, and IRS for twice to three times the money. Just thought a factory designed drive train from front to back would be a less troubled installation.
Zfever here in Tampa does packaged conversions.
1971 240Z HLS30A 17574 L24-021025
That would be a neat package. My Infiniti G37 convertible has 325 HP and makes a great sound on acceleration. Converting an original 240Z to a 3.7 Nissan drivetrain would make it a modern 370Z with a much lighter vintage Z body. An interesting concept.
As for V8 conversions, I've always felt that if I had the desire for a "go fast" Corvette powered sports car, I'd buy a Corvette.
Dennis
1971 240Z - Original Owner
2010 Infiniti G37 Convertible
You're still either missing or avoiding the point of "value". If you put a new V8 in an old crappy Z you'll probably increase the value. If you put a V8 or any other engine at all in the car that Benton Performance is restoring, http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/o...tml#post460820 , you'll almost certainly decrease the value.
1976 280Z, with some minor modifications
In case nobody's noticed yet, Z fan is 72 OJ/Plata aka "Lee" trolling the site yet again for reassurance that his V8 Z is the greatest car on Earth.
2/74 260Z
I thought that style felt familiar. He got me on the identity switch, but still didn't hear what he wanted to hear. Must be frustrating. Maybe he'll go buy a Scarab now, then he could talk about it. He might have to sell his V8 Z first though to get the cash, and he'd probably have to take a loss to get someone to buy it. That would be illuminating.
1976 280Z, with some minor modifications
@ LeonV, OJ a former site member who was ban by a moderator that has is no longer with us , he my uncle Lee was ban because he did not like mud flaps on Z's , figure that one. It seems that you also had a few disputes with him , sorry for that, but envy on your part is evident. BTW his silver Z is a show piece.
Too funny. Apples and trees and brothers or sisters. Looks like it runs in the family.
1976 280Z, with some minor modifications
What was your first clue - weak English skills, V8 Z obsession, lives in MD, baits comments, makes no sense, doesn't listen to reason? I blocked OJ on this forum long ago. Then he moved to Hybridz and I blocked inane posts there. Now, I'll probably have to do it here, again. Forrest Gump was right.
Dennis
1971 240Z - Original Owner
2010 Infiniti G37 Convertible
Life is like a box of chocolates?
1976 280Z, with some minor modifications
No, the other one - Stupid is as stupid does.
1971 240Z - Original Owner
2010 Infiniti G37 Convertible
Can you please stop the STUPID comments, take that with him not me . Can we get back with the thread topic.
There is no real topic here.
1976 280Z, with some minor modifications
No problem. Have we reached consensus based on the responses so far? Do you feel we can reach consensus? How will we know when we reach consensus? Does diversity hinder consensus?
Dennis
1971 240Z - Original Owner
2010 Infiniti G37 Convertible
On the few informative responses, I get that a well sorted early Z with a modern GM swap may have more value than a run of the mill driver Z . I also sense that the early Z is not true classic car yet, that status is in the near future and I guess we all aspire that to be . So I ask for respect , my relation to the former member that was ban has noting to do with my participation on this site .
Why are you asking? Are you planning to buy one or modify one?
1976 280Z, with some minor modifications
Well to answer your question , my step son is in the hunt for a DONE 240Z and the LS1 mod is in the radar.
So you're trying to figure out how much to pay. Does he want a V8 240Z or is he looking for an investment? Or is he looking for a car to show? Asking other people how much something is worth rarely gets a common answer.
If you want opinions from people who've probably seen, built and driven more LSX powered Z cars, Hybridz is probably a better forum. But the overall "answer" will probably be about the same.
1976 280Z, with some minor modifications
I would think it would be hard to get a Z owner's estimate of such a Z sight unseen. Very few Z's are in original condition today and their value varies widely. A highly modified Z is even harder to value sight unseen.
Try http://collectorcarpricetracker.com/...ars/1970-1986/
also www.autotraderclassic.com
1971 240Z HLS30A 17574 L24-021025
I have visited the above sites from time to time and see that Z values are all over the board.
No to the above questions , my intent on this thread is to get opinions/answers to post #1 by members on this site who are well verse with early Z's. HybridZ is a site dedicated to hands on fabrication and Z's like in post #9 are rare at that level there.
Last edited by Z fan; 07-25-2014 at 08:44 PM.
What's your step son's budget? What's the most he's prepared to spend?
Dennis
1971 240Z - Original Owner
2010 Infiniti G37 Convertible
What does that have to do with my initial post, he owns a 370Z that he paid cash and wants another toy.
Let me expand on the site BAN to my uncle , he was severely attacked by a former site moderator that had severe health issues and has pass away. There are several posts on this site archives that reflect the confrontations they had. The one that tip the most is that my uncle does not like mud flaps on any car and the former moderator had them on his Z. Also the former moderator manipulated/edited my uncle's written quotes in order to insult him. ................. PS there are several notes by OJ that made contributions to this site, to bad that an ill person made him a target .
Last edited by Z fan; 07-25-2014 at 09:47 PM.
Is he banded for life. Let's not stay in the past to long. I say move forward. Let OJ come back to the site.
Ray
1974 Datson 260Z
RLS30-27748 Matching #'s
L26 Stock w/72 Round Tops
Interpart Front Spoiler
Addco Front & Rear Sway Bars
My Very First Car
Purchased 5/23/1974
I could care less about his current car or how he paid for it. Please stay on topic. Why I asked is because it is related to your initial post since he wants a V8 Z and you want to know the value of such a car. Values of such a car have a wide range based on type of engine, quality of installation, build quality of the Z. Your stepson's budget will determine the level of converted car he can consider buying.
Depending on the budget, it may be a very nice complete car or a hastily put together conversion with a fresh coat of paint.
Perhaps, it would be more appropriate for your stepson to be asking the questions on this forum.
Dennis
1971 240Z - Original Owner
2010 Infiniti G37 Convertible
@ psdenno, He lives in Costa Rica , a Bank Executive , and he has ask me to assist in the hunt here in the US . I repeat please read post #1 and stop the sabotage to my discovery.
That will be a sensible action by site administrators.
Last edited by Z fan; 07-26-2014 at 08:42 AM.
I'm fairly new to the site, but I don't think this is true. Your uncle may have told you this, and may have even believed it, but I an familiar, through his posts here, with the person that you're talking about and I can't see him doing this. I'm also familiar with your uncle's postings, here and on other forums, and can say that he is a very self-absorbed person who would be much more likely to misconstrue honest opinions as attacks on his character.
If you want to start fresh, as yourself, you'd be best off to leave your uncle out of the discussion, and not take on any of his burden. You can't fix his past, and it won't help your efforts.
It's taken a lot of posts to get to the true purpose of your thread. Kind of disingenuous. Not really a good start.
1976 280Z, with some minor modifications
This thread has strayed so far from the original topic that it's neither informative nor pleasant to be a participant. It's dead to me and I'm moving on.
Dennis
1971 240Z - Original Owner
2010 Infiniti G37 Convertible
To me a Z with a V8 is no longer a Z but is nothing more than just another kit car. Kit cars can be valuable and desirable to some. But is NOT a Z. Too much has to be changed, and the car is a miss match of parts.
But the value is tough. You will certainly make more money keeping it OEM. Perfect car with a V8 value is probably less than Perfect car with an original engine. But again, if you find the right guy at the right time, anything can happen. Your odds are better with an original car if $$$$ is what you are seeking.
The only kit cars I have ever been able to stomach is the factory 5 cobras and the well done Porsche speedsters.
A V8 Z, nope, never liked it. Seen too many hacked up cars to waste time looking for one done right. I get zero goosebumps when I pop open the hood of a Z and see huge corvette plastic engine covers. I get far more weak in the knees when I see triple Webers/Mikuni's on a straight 6.
1971 240Z HLS30-38691
93.9% done and getting better every day
Now with 100% more DATSUN SPIRIT L28 Power
1968 Datsun 2000 SRL311-03416
Word by word of my initial post, this is the topic at hand. A simple question that has been transform into a cyber inane battle by some site members.
Last edited by Z fan; 07-26-2014 at 12:36 PM.
A friend has a 73 Scarab. Beautifully done inside & out with a 327, Given my choice, I'd take one with an inline 6. The power of the 327 is impressive but it changes the whole feel of the car. I don't think the exra weight up front helps much either. He won't drive it in the rain anymore, He says it's too squirrely, Even in the dry, if you're going for WOT, the car had better be pointed straight. Seems to me that something has been taken away from the Scarab, maybe just good old driveability. I love my Z in all weather, even snow. (should have kept those tire chains Geoff) and it is by far the most fun car you can drive year round. There is a limit, deep snow.
A quick look at Hemmings classifieds -- which typically represents the upper end of the "asking price" for 240Z's (you indicated in your post "clean early Z's) shows asking process from a low of $10,000 to a high of $ 16,000. one was recently listed at $25,000 but I do not know if it sold at that price. The same condition "clean early Z's with a GM LS1/LS2 conversion (most have automatics but some are standard) sell for between $ 15,000 and $20,000. so the answer to your query is YES. There was a fantastic Z from northern California that had EVERYTHING done to it with its LS conversion that was asked for $40,000 + and ultimately sold for $35,000.
Forget factory Scarabs (to be fair I own factory VIN # 155 Scarab) They START in the mid $20's and go up from there depending on the VIN #. You can do this mental comparison with US made "restomods". If the underlying car -- fully restored -- is worth upwards of $25,000 - $50,000 then a fully restomod might bring $ 35,000 -$75,000. I'm weatch9ng Mecum now and that seems to be the case. So early Z's do not have the same lift as a classic 60's car when each have been restomoded.
Good luck in your search -- keep in mind that to hold the power of an LS1/LS2 a WHOLE LOT -- and I mean A WHOLE LOT of suspension, unibnody/frame strengthening, brakes, steering and wheels/tires have to be done. If not you've got a straight line bottle rocket.
Could you post some links, or an image of the page data? I looked and only see six 240Z's for sale and a price range, but that's it. That would be a good resource and could answer his questions. I'd like to browse through it myself.
Datsun 240Z for Sale | Hemmings Motor News
Research Classic Car Pricing | Vehicle Price Guides | Hemmings Motor News
1976 280Z, with some minor modifications
This web site looks interesting. A few V8 Z's. Didn't see any LS1's but haven't made it through the pages.
240Z | Makes | Z CAR TRADER ? Free Datsun/Nissan Classified ADs
Last edited by Zed Head; 07-26-2014 at 03:39 PM.
1976 280Z, with some minor modifications
@Scarab155, thanks good info .
[Quote: "As for V8 conversions, I've always felt that if I had the desire for a "go fast" Corvette powered sports car, I'd buy a Corvette.
Dennis"]
I consider V-8 conversions to be a matter of personal taste, though personally, I'm with Dennis on this one. __ The L-Series drive trains just seem "right" in these cars.
To answer the original question, as far as value goes, I think it's very much dependent on the quality of the build. A high-end, professional quality V-8 conversion will be more valuable than a typical garage-built car. The majority of garage-built V-8 conversions seen on eBay or Craig's list seem to sell for relatively low money. __ Also, a "real" Scarab is not the same as a modern V-8 conversion in terms of collector desirability and value. __
If we believe the articles suggesting that our 240Z's will be increasing in collector / $ value, it "might" be wisest to build an 100% stock restoration, or a well done (and reversible) resto-mode with the original drive train.
Many of us have invested far more into our Z's than their current market value, and suspect it will be at least five years before my Z will "might" worth what I have spent on it...
__ My impression is most of the people on this site don't consider their classic Z's as "investments". I certainly feel that way, and pending a fiscal or health issue forcing me to sell it, I plan to be driving my Z for many years to come.
Julio
1972 240Z (in-progress, 95% complete)
CZC# 15388
I agree with post # 50 and # 57.When you replace the motor with a V8 it's no longer a Z. Love my SU's and 25-27 mpg on the highway.
1974 Datson 260Z
RLS30-27748 Matching #'s
L26 Stock w/72 Round Tops
Interpart Front Spoiler
Addco Front & Rear Sway Bars
My Very First Car
Purchased 5/23/1974
Let's face it - 'Beauty is in the eye of the Beer holder'
For me I go with in period modifications rather than the V8 or turbo rice-power transplant.
Magical beer!
1972 240Z #918 New Sight Orange
1977 280Z #305 Light Blue Metallic
1972 240Z #110 Persimmons Red
The old 327 is a heavy iron block, the GM LS1 is an all aluminum block , in fact it weights less than the original inline 6 Datsun motor. I think that engine swaps done with proper engineering on a Z are an attractive option , the ageless design that is exotic in my eyes makes a Z a canvas for a master piece .
Last edited by Z fan; 07-28-2014 at 09:02 AM.
Good points made here, the syndrome of spending money on this car is an illness, but what a wonderful toy .
Sounding more and more like 72OJ. You've already decided that the LS1 swap adds "value". You're really just here to find people who agree with you. Nothing wrong with that, at least you're not randomly posting in other people's threads about how great your car is. I think that that is the real reason 72OJ got banned.
It will be interesting to see what your step-son ends up with and how much he pays.
1976 280Z, with some minor modifications
@ Zed Head, he is a very cool person , you should check out his girlfriend , a true Victoria Secret type model just as sexy as his Z. We have made no decision on the type of Z to be considered , lots of variables on the table .
Last edited by Z fan; 07-28-2014 at 02:09 PM.
I'm thinking this really is 72OJ, under a different name. Couldn't stop talking about how sexy his car was then, now he has to talk about his sexy girlfriend. Somehow, sex always enters the discussion.
I've looked and I can't find any confirmation that the LS1 is much lighter than the L6. Most people consider the transmission as part of the package. When you do that the car gets heavier apparently.
Here's a thread that he (you) might remember. Post #9. - Weight of an LS1 and an L24 - Gen III & IV Chevy V8Z Tech Board - HybridZ See how the discussion devolved, then died.
I predict that there will be an LS engine of some kind in this car, if this thread is really about finding a nice Z for a step-son.
1976 280Z, with some minor modifications
@ Zed Head, please stop the the OJ comparison , like a stated before , my participation on this site should not be link to my uncle , if you had an issue with him take that with him. The HybridZ thread in your post ended with a scale picture that proofed the point . As for your prediction it will be a clean done California Z with an engine upgrade maybe like this<< click to enlarge or
.
Last edited by Z fan; 07-28-2014 at 05:42 PM.
It wouldn't be the first time...
2/74 260Z
@ LeonV, Please move on , what ever obsession you have with OJ let it go. I repeat my relation with him has no relevance in my participation on this site .
Last edited by Z fan; 07-29-2014 at 05:00 AM.
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