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Thread: Macau 240Z - Could this be the real deal??

  1. #1
    Registered User Marty Rogan's Avatar
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    Default Macau 240Z - Could this be the real deal??

    I just saw this listing:
    1970 Datsun 240 Z Race Car WR Showroom

    It claims to be the Macau Grand Prix car. The back ground story appears correct. The listed VIN number is also correct.

    Interesting car, but is it really worth $70K?

    Marty

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    Her Majesty the 26th 26th-Z's Avatar
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    It's also listed on Ebay Datsun Z Series Historical Race Car | eBay

    I saw this car at the Mitty several years ago. Personally, I think the Macau story is more hype than fact, but it very well could have Japanese racing history / provenance; for what ever that's worth. It's a very nice clean car.
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    ++++++++ HS30-H's Avatar
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    Over the years there's been quite a lot of nonsense talked about that car. Some of it innocently mistaken, but also some of it carelessly so...

    Case in point: I notice the ad says that the car took part in the 1970 Macau Grand Prix. In fact it took part in the 1971 Macau Grand Prix. Typo or just poor research? Who knows.

    I researched the car with quite a lot of effort some years ago. If the vendor or a new owner wants to find out some more about it, they are welcome to ask me.

    And $70k USD? Sure, why not?

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    ++++++++ HS30-H's Avatar
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    I'll just leave this here:
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    The yellow front tow hook looks pretty authentic, doesn't it? 70's era?

    There's a video. You might lose your lunch on the drive-over, be careful.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJu9z_dexFA
    1976 280Z, with some minor modifications

  6. #6
    Her Majesty the 26th 26th-Z's Avatar
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    Hey Alan great photo! You never cease to amaze me.

    Is that the roll hoop I see? If so, does that resemble the layout for the Nissan competition hoop?
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    The car in Post #4 looks very different than the car in Post #6. And the car in Post #6 looks like the car for sale.

    So, is it the real car, just heavily modified from the Post #4 picture? Or not? The caption in Post #4 says 2010, not so long ago. I took it as 2010 is the original and the for sale car is not.
    1976 280Z, with some minor modifications

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    ++++++++ HS30-H's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 26th-Z View Post
    Is that the roll hoop I see? If so, does that resemble the layout for the Nissan competition hoop?
    Hi Chris,
    The two diagonal bars behind the driver that are visible in the photo I posted are nothing like the 4-point Nissan Sports Option 'Safety Bar' kit, and nothing like the Works cars used either. Like a lot of other details on the car, I think it was a (local) private fabrication.

    However, the car - in its original guise - did have a lot of Nissan Sports and Race Option parts attached to it. It still has a few left now, but it probably lost most of it when it was restored and updated to (then) current regs and safety standards in 1991.

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    ++++++++ HS30-H's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zed Head View Post
    So, is it the real car, just heavily modified from the Post #4 picture? Or not? The caption in Post #4 says 2010, not so long ago. I took it as 2010 is the original and the for sale car is not.
    I believe the car for sale is the same one that raced in Macau in 1971, but it has been heavily modified over the years.

    That 'Alan Thomas 2010' watermark on the photo I posted relates to when I captured the still image from a film. I put it there. It has nothing to do with the date of what is happening in the photo. The event is the start of the 1971 Macau 'Grand Prix' race.

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    Registered User Marty Rogan's Avatar
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    So how significant of a race was the Macau Grand Prix? And how significant was the driver? The story does not even say how the car did in the race.

    Sure it has an interesting racing provenance, but it is not a BRE Team car or driven by Newman or Morton, to justify a price like that. The EBay auction ended at $25K. To me, in my opinion, that seems like a more realistic price.

    Marty

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    ++++++++ HS30-H's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marty Rogan View Post
    So how significant of a race was the Macau Grand Prix?
    The 1971 Macau 'Grand Prix' was the auto racing equivalent of the bar scene from the first Star Wars movie. I think the photo I posted helps to illustrate just what a hotchpotch of classes and styles it was.

    In the grand scheme of things it wasn't a very significant race, but Macau has a long and fairly rich history of racing and in more recent years it has become more important. Many interesting cars have raced there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marty Rogan
    And how significant was the driver?
    Not very, but again he was interesting. He either raced under a pseudonym in Japan or in Macau (more on that anon perhaps), but he did race in Japan and actually won a race or two in Clubman classes, whilst also - apparently - having a career in the US Air Force. I tip my hat to him.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marty Rogan
    Sure it has an interesting racing provenance, but it is not a BRE Team car or driven by Newman or Morton, to justify a price like that. The EBay auction ended at $25K. To me, in my opinion, that seems like a more realistic price.
    I think you're damning it with very faint praise, Marty. I think there are not many early 240Zs with period (international) race history out there, and this car - with some mods - would be eligible for some interesting events. You certainly couldn't build it for $25k US and at that price I'd buy it in an instant and turn it back into what it was in 1970 when it was racing in Japan.The S30-series Z was about more than BRE, Morton and Newman. In fact, there's a very good chance that this particular car was racing before BRE had even built their first Z.

    To be honest, the $65k US asking price sounds realistic bordering on undervalued to me.



    It's stuff like this that frustrates me about the 'scene' around the S30-series Z sometimes. People "ooh" and "ahh" and virtually wet themselves at the most abominably adorned and superannuated engine-swapped pieces of junk, and can't see the pearls that are right in front of their faces. Sad.

  12. #12
    Her Majesty the 26th 26th-Z's Avatar
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    Alan,
    John Morton won the SCCA C Production national championship on Sunday, November 29, 1970. I don't have any record of wins for the BRE car (s) or Bob Sharp's efforts prior to that date however this would be the significant race / date to compare. I think you will find that there was far more S30 racing activity (and success?) in Japan by that late date in November 1970.

    Marty, I also want to comment about the reference you made to Paul Newman, in the context of the early racing S30s and their drivers. Paul Newman won the C Production national championship in 1979 - in a 280ZX. C Production championships won in S30 machines belong to John Morton, Bob Sharp, Walt Mass, Elliot Forbes-Robinson, Logan Blackburn and Frank Leary.
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