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Thread: Started fuel cell install...

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    Registered User hmsports's Avatar
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    Default Started fuel cell install...

    Started by cutting out the spare tire area. Will build the cell box this weekend...



    Rick Hanson
    HANSON Motorsports
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    rickh@dmrassociates.com

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    Registered User hmsports's Avatar
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    Default fuel cell

    Here's a picture of the one I'm installing...



    It's a rubber bladder inside of a metal case. There are foam blocks inside the bladder. The metal case helps to keep everything safe in case of an accident. If the metal case distorts or fails, the rubber bladder is supposed to keep the fuel inside. If it fails, the foam helps to keep the fuel from splashing about. ATL (Aero Tech Labs) which made my cell makes them for cars, planes and even space craft.
    Rick Hanson
    HANSON Motorsports
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    rickh@dmrassociates.com

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    Registered User tanny's Avatar
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    Default

    Yeah, I wonder how the Z would perform on some hydrogen? Might prevent people from squealing at me for removing my smog stuff. Victor.

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    Default

    By the look on your face Rick, I think you were having just a little too much fun with that torch....
    "If it weren't for fools, the rest of us could not succeed." Mark Twain.

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    Registered User hmsports's Avatar
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    Default darwin

    Usually the equation:

    Vehicle + Beer + Torch = Darwin Award Winner!

    Luckily I did remember to remove the fuel tank first
    Rick Hanson
    HANSON Motorsports
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    WESTCOASTZRACER Chino 240Z's Avatar
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    Default Here's one installed.

    Not a good picture but maybe it might give you an idea of the finished install? This one is a 12 Gal. unit. One line is fuel a line to the pump and the other is a vent line to the outside of the car. Fuel cells can be messy if you spill or drip fuel inside the car, but in a race application, usually door windows are removed for safety, and you don't get fumes buildup, but that High octane sure has a sweet smell . .

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    Default

    Hey Rick, thinking of doing the same application to my Z, how much did yours cost?
    Thanks
    If it ain't a Z, it ain't...............

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    Registered User hmsports's Avatar
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    Default Cost

    I purchased my cell from ATL about four years ago for around $360. I know you can get Fuel Safe brand from racer parts wholesale.

    One note on installing the cell for SCCA racing -- the rules state that you must have a metal bulkhead between the cell and the driver's compartment. My cell will hang below the deck where a single sheet of aluminum will completely cover the cell. I will be puting a flapper door so I can get to the filler.

    Another thing. Since the pick-ups in the cell and hoses are quite large diameter, you will need to get a Holley Blue pump (around $100) to get the fuel out and up to the carbs. The pump comes with a regulator to get things down to about 6 pounds which is what my carbs like. They have modified needles.
    Last edited by hmsports; 07-17-2003 at 12:30 PM.
    Rick Hanson
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    Registered User 26ounce's Avatar
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    Default

    Originally posted by tanny
    Yeah, I wonder how the Z would perform on some hydrogen? Might prevent people from squealing at me for removing my smog stuff. Victor.
    Hehehe, that was the first thing I thought when I saw "fuel cell".

    Looks good Rick, love to see a photo of the car after the installation.

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    Registered User hmsports's Avatar
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    Default UPDATE: Frame installed


    Measured, cut and ready to go


    Final setup before tacking


    Clamped in and ready to weld


    Installed. Ready to drill holes and bolt in.
    Rick Hanson
    HANSON Motorsports
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    rickh@dmrassociates.com

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    WESTCOASTZRACER Chino 240Z's Avatar
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    Default

    Your cell project is moving along good. Are you running the fuel line through the car or under the car through the tunnel? What is SCCA rule on fuel line through the car?

    I have been using the Holly Red pump (which I think is now colored silver or something but still called the Red pump?) and I can still see 5.5 to 6 psi up front, but I knock it down to 3.5 to 4 psi with the Holley Press. Reg., but I don't have custom needles either. I don't know for sure, but I recall the Blue Pump not recommended for continuous use or daily drivers. Short runs or drag racing and as high as 15 psi., so what is the life on a Blue pump anyways? Have you seen one go bad?

    Regards Craig
    Last edited by Chino 240Z; 07-23-2003 at 06:51 AM.

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    Registered User hmsports's Avatar
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    Default Lines and pumps

    Craig,

    I've used my Blue pump for about four years of racing. Each race lasts about 30-40 minutes. I guess there have been more than 25 races total. I have not had it fail or faulter. I do plan on running a second blue pump on this car that will be manually switched in case I do have a failure. This will require a T-fitting and some one way inline valves.

    I plan on running all my lines within the car -- including brake lines -- since my car will have limited ground clearance and I don't want to take a chance of pinching or tearing a line when I do any 'agriculture racing'.

    The SCCA states that any fuel, oil or brake lines that pass through the driver's compartment must be at minimum braided. They recommend, and this is what I will use, is solid metal line.
    Rick Hanson
    HANSON Motorsports
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    WESTCOASTZRACER ron carter's Avatar
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    Default

    HMS,

    that looks like a big cell for 30 to 40 min races? what is that, a 15 gallon? I would think that you would run a 8 or 12 gallon?? or am i mistaken..

    I am getting ready to do the same proceedure on my race car, with a 12 gallon ATL. I have heard that the new tire well cells fit in a 240Z.. any thoughts..I am sure weight distribution would be a consideration, shifting the cell to the passenger side etc..

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    Registered User hmsports's Avatar
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    Default cell

    It is actually a 12 gallon ATL cell. A local ITA Civic racer here uses the new well-cell and seems to like it. Doing it the way I did allow you to drop the weight down and more to the right side which will offset the driver as well as keep the roll-center lower.

    I went with the 12 gallon in anticiapation of running some enduro races some day. For the local ITS races, I usually run around 6-8 gallons.
    Rick Hanson
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    Resident Wino Zvoiture's Avatar
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    Default

    A friend of mine said, "Don't install the Summit cell. They are not SCCA legal." He didn't elaborate, but perhaps now I understand. SCCA wants a layer of metal between you and the gas. The polyethylene tank does not provide this. Is this the reason? Or am I missing something else?

    Does this 'bulkhead' have to be steel? Can it be aluminum? I noticed some other brands in the Summit catalogue, one of which is a 11 gallon Aluminum.

    steve
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    Resident Wino Zvoiture's Avatar
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    Default

    Oh...and Fuel Safe lists a round 'wheel well cell'. Pretty cool, but their REGULAR cell is listed at $746...I can't imagine what one of their 'specialty' cells would cost!!!!!!

    steve77
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    Registered User hmsports's Avatar
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    Default Cells

    A friend of mine just installed the ATL well-cell into his ITA Civic (about $360). The only thing with that is you can't move the center of gravity down like you can with a 'standard' style box cell.

    As far as the legality... all the GCR says is that a fuel cell that is exposed to the driver's compartment must have a metal bulkhead separating them. Most of the guys I know use aluminum for weight savings. That's what I plan on using.

    Another requirement is that it be mounted where the lowest part of the cell is no lower than six inches from the ground.
    Rick Hanson
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    WESTCOASTZRACER ron carter's Avatar
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    The ATL cells are very nice I just purchased a 12 gallon "well-cell" for my 240Z and it was $499.00. The guys at ATL were very helpful.

    I would suggest contacting them for a fuel cell.

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    Default 'bout time!

    Its about time you started putting your car together Rick!!! Now that mine is on hold, I will have to watch you in order to keep my sanity!

    p
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    78 280Z ITS Being pieced together from the ground up.
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    Registered User hmsports's Avatar
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    Talking Close...

    My son's soccer season is over this Saturday (I'm the manager/head coach) so I've got until Thanksgiving to get the final gutting complete and the cage built. I'm working on a sponsorship proposal now also. The plans in place! I'll be posting pictures and all the details on my web site at E-Production 240Z Build. The link also includes my estimated cost calculator
    Rick Hanson
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    Master of Weaponry Dtsnlvrs's Avatar
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    Default

    Well good luck in the next season
    Russell A. Buckwalter
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    She now lives on a showroom floor.....I WILL BUILD ANOTHER ONE

    If Nissan Motorsports is NISMO, is Honda Motorsports HOMO?

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    Registered User phi22b@ck's Avatar
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    Not too bad of a cost estimate -- I think your doing really well!

    p
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    02 F-150 SuperCrew for recovery
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  23. #23
    Registered User hmsports's Avatar
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    Default estimate

    That of course if because I'm reusing some stuff from my IT car such as:

    Engine and carbs
    Old header and exhaust
    Gauges and senders

    and I'm not going with fiberglass parts -- which saves another $1200 or so.

    The major cost savings come from not having to build a $12,000 competative EProd engine. I figure I'll spend a year or so getting used to racing slicks and also making the car handle well before I put more power to the ground.
    Rick Hanson
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    Default

    Err, Rick, you have noticed in the rules you can't use the 5 speed right? You can only run 4 forward gears, as stock. Of course, there is nothing that says you can't mix and match the gears as long as they fit in the stock case.

    This is only my opinion, but I'd save the money for the Tilton pedal assemblies the first year and go for a fiberglass hood and front fenders and work on getting the car down to minimum weight first. Then the second year go for a Quaiffe diff and the Tilton pedals,and maybe a dry sump, and, and, and......
    Since with the ZX calipers the 15/16th master ought to do the trick you could cut one little corner until you get more seat time and HP to play with...

    Just as an example, Mike Unger ran his 240 at Summit this year in EP for 2 races, and with nothing more than an IT motor, mildly hopped up, and bolting on a set of slicks, he ran within 2 seconds of the race leader with his Full Prep RX-7's..... not bad for a SVRA vintage car with steel fenders, hood, and stock brakes (IT prepped).....
    Actually, he equalled the winners fastest lap and was gaining on
    him at the end of the race. I think you'll find the regional EP cars usually run about 2 seconds slower than Nationally prepped cars...
    "If it weren't for fools, the rest of us could not succeed." Mark Twain.

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