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Thread: Anyone have a CAD drawing of an S30?

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    Registered User mdbrandy's Avatar
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    Default Anyone have a CAD drawing of an S30?

    Looking for essentially a surface shell drawing of an S30 chassis. All the talk of drag coefficients and such in one of the other current threads has made me want to see what would happen if I tried modeling one of our cars in one of the CFD (computational fluid dynamics) codes that I run every day. Might be fun in my "spare time" . Would need to be either a format that Pro/Engineer can read, or a generic IGES file exported from your CAD system that I can read into our finite element mesh generation code. Even a 2D elevation outline might be interesting. Our codes are 3D, but I can mock up a 2D slice around the car. I'm just not very good with CAD. Got other people to do that for me!

    Anyway, just a thought .
    Mark Brandyberry
    1970 240Z (11/69) HLS30 00215
    1978 280Z (05/78) HLS30 466356
    IZCC #802 & CZC#4028

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    Registered User Mat73GNZ's Avatar
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    I have chassis dimmensions you could use in my album here

    You were talking about drag coefficients, and I'm not sure which thread you are refering to, but have you seen this page ?

    !M!
    The original point and click interface was a Smith and Wesson.

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    Registered User mdbrandy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mat73GNZ
    I have chassis dimmensions you could use in my album here

    You were talking about drag coefficients, and I'm not sure which thread you are refering to, but have you seen this page ?

    !M!
    I've got many/most of those drawings, but that still makes me do the CAD myself, which I am not skilled at. Once I have a CAD representation, I can mesh it in a variety of ways.

    I tried the Aero URL but it can't be displayed for some reason. Sounds interesting, though .

    What I'd like to play with doing would be essentially calculating the entire flow field around the car. Might be interesting to see what kind of turbulence is predicted behind it with our codes. We're always looking to find new simulations to do. We normally do solid propellant rockets, but we've done airplane wings, shock tubes, and even flow in an artery. I'd essentially set it up like a virtual wind tunnel and flow 70 mph air over it to see what happens. Expensive computer toys .
    Mark Brandyberry
    1970 240Z (11/69) HLS30 00215
    1978 280Z (05/78) HLS30 466356
    IZCC #802 & CZC#4028

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    Registered User Schev's Avatar
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    I may be able to do a CAD drawing for you. Ill need a side view of the car with visible dimensions on it, the one Mat73 has dimensions that are unclear. Or i guess I could also use a side view of the car period, but it would be very time consuming that way. Something that would also be very neat, would be to draw an S30 up in something like SolidWorks. I think making an "exact" CAD drawing might be teadious, but definately do-able
    '73 240Z - HLS30-171979 *Under Construction*
    88' BMW 325is - E30

    "You can get what you want or you can just get old" - Billy Joel

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    Registered User Mat73GNZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mdbrandy
    I tried the Aero URL but it can't be displayed for some reason. Sounds interesting, though .
    Here it is without the hyperlink: http://zccw.org/Tech/Body/09-97EarlyZAerodynamics.html

    Schevets, the drawings are clear if you click on them again to enlarge to the full size picture.

    I, along with many others would love to see what you guys come up with!

    !M!
    The original point and click interface was a Smith and Wesson.

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    Registered User mdbrandy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mat73GNZ
    Here it is without the hyperlink: http://zccw.org/Tech/Body/09-97EarlyZAerodynamics.html

    Schevets, the drawings are clear if you click on them again to enlarge to the full size picture.

    I, along with many others would love to see what you guys come up with!

    !M!

    Hmm. Still can't be displayed. Acts like it is loading, but then dies. Maybe your post has a lot of people looking at it now . Although there were only 24 views on this thread when I looked before, so you wouldn't think that would tax any server...

    If anyone is interested in the kind of things I'm talking about, our website is www.csar.uiuc.edu. Kind of out of date right now, but still has some interesting stuff.
    Mark Brandyberry
    1970 240Z (11/69) HLS30 00215
    1978 280Z (05/78) HLS30 466356
    IZCC #802 & CZC#4028

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    Registered User mdbrandy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schevets
    I may be able to do a CAD drawing for you. Ill need a side view of the car with visible dimensions on it, the one Mat73 has dimensions that are unclear. Or i guess I could also use a side view of the car period, but it would be very time consuming that way. Something that would also be very neat, would be to draw an S30 up in something like SolidWorks. I think making an "exact" CAD drawing might be teadious, but definately do-able
    May73GNZ is right - if you click on them they get quite large and detailed.

    If you want to do it, that's great - I was just wondering if anyone already had. I know I've seen people making illustrations of various Z's, but that's probably in paint-type packages and not CAD. Since I need surface descriptions, pixel images aren't useful. Have you ever saved anything in iges format before? We use Pro/E here, although I don't know much about it. Our CAD modeler then saves in iges so I can read the model into a program called Gridgen. It doesn't understand native CAD formats unless you pay more money .
    Mark Brandyberry
    1970 240Z (11/69) HLS30 00215
    1978 280Z (05/78) HLS30 466356
    IZCC #802 & CZC#4028

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    Registered User Schev's Avatar
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    Oo, we have AutoCad and AccuCad. I can check tomorrow to see if it saves in IGES format. Although by the way you are speaking it does not sound like it will, I am not familiar with the IGES format, I can look into it though. Your job appears to be very interesting

    About those image sizes - I tried to save the regular sized ones to my desktop and zoom in and it didn't work. But when I clicked to make it larger it worked like you said
    Last edited by Schev; 06-02-2005 at 07:20 PM.
    '73 240Z - HLS30-171979 *Under Construction*
    88' BMW 325is - E30

    "You can get what you want or you can just get old" - Billy Joel

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    Registered User mdbrandy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schevets
    Oo, we have AutoCad and AccuCad. I can check tomorrow to see if it saves in IGES format. Although by the way you are speaking it does not sound like it will, I am not familiar with the IGES format, I can look into it though. Your job appears to be very interesting

    About those image sizes - I tried to save the regular sized ones to my desktop and zoom in and it didn't work. But when I clicked to make it larger it worked like you said
    IGES is a text-file generic CAD description specification that most CAD packages can save files in. HOWEVER, it is buggy, and iges files saved by one package may or may not work well in another. I've found that PRO/E can read iges files from most other packages, and then if I resave them from PRO/E, then Gridgen can read them. We also have Patran which can make, read, and save iges files, but not as well as PRO/Engineer.

    Anyway, don't put yourself out too much. If you like doing stuff like this, go for it! I'd love to have the CAD description...

    Thanks.
    Mark Brandyberry
    1970 240Z (11/69) HLS30 00215
    1978 280Z (05/78) HLS30 466356
    IZCC #802 & CZC#4028

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    Acts first, Thinks later speedyblue's Avatar
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    Sounds like an interesting idea. Once it is all off the ground it may be possible to run the car with a G-nose or a rear 'bre' spoiler to check the differences.
    I drive a Z because there simply weren't enough station wagons to go around.

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    Registered User mdbrandy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by speedyblue
    Sounds like an interesting idea. Once it is all off the ground it may be possible to run the car with a G-nose or a rear 'bre' spoiler to check the differences.
    Yup, especially if I use unstructured grids, they aren't too hard to change. The hardest part is getting the base description right.
    Mark Brandyberry
    1970 240Z (11/69) HLS30 00215
    1978 280Z (05/78) HLS30 466356
    IZCC #802 & CZC#4028

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    Known Zitus carrier! hls30.com's Avatar
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    Why not scan Line art in and use a scalar to vector converter?
    Swapping from jpg, gif, tip or even psd to DFX or anyother vector format is a very simple thing-I think R10 and newer have the converter as part of the package-if not there are shareware converters readily available.
    Will
    A Z is beautiful from any angle, I just happen to prefer to view from the drivers' seat!

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    Quote Originally Posted by hls30.com
    Why not scan Line art in and use a scalar to vector converter?
    Swapping from jpg, gif, tip or even psd to DFX or anyother vector format is a very simple thing-I think R10 and newer have the converter as part of the package-if not there are shareware converters readily available.
    Will
    Another thing I am not particularly familiar with. The only graphics package I have right now is JASC Paintshop Pro, and I was just trying to see if it had a raster to vector converter and I don't think so. Never had to do it before. I can save from Paintshop to .psd, .gif, .jpeg or whatever. Don't know what R10 is - is it a package or a format? Do you have a favorite shareware converter?
    Mark Brandyberry
    1970 240Z (11/69) HLS30 00215
    1978 280Z (05/78) HLS30 466356
    IZCC #802 & CZC#4028

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    Known Zitus carrier! hls30.com's Avatar
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    Autocad Revision 10.
    Designcad has a converter built in, The epson dot matrix Printhead scanner upgrade came with a converter.
    Most of the shareware libraries have a free converter in them.
    While I do not have a favorite-I use the one built into designcad- here is a list of a few available on TUCOWS.

    Raster to Vector
    This stand-alone program converts scanned drawings, maps and raster... Shareware 98, NT, 2k, Me, XP, 95, 2003

    Vector Trance
    This screen saver shows mathematical visual display of vector based... Never Rated Freeware 98, NT, 2k, Me, XP, 95, 2003

    Algolab Photo Vector
    This is a vectorizer and image cleaner for CAD and CAM designers. Never Rated Shareware 98, NT, 2k, Me, XP, 95

    Vector
    This is a dark blue theme. Never Rated Freeware XP

    Vector Graphics ActiveX
    This graphics component can be used by other applications to process... Freeware 98, NT, 2k, Me, XP, 2003


    Will
    A Z is beautiful from any angle, I just happen to prefer to view from the drivers' seat!

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    I'm not sure if this would help but I'll be looking to build a model of a 240z in 3D studio Max It's been ages since I've modelled anything in MAX but I'm going to do a few tutorials and make it as accurate as possible following some technical drawings will help.

    I know it's not Autocad but would this be helpful?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gav240z
    I'm not sure if this would help but I'll be looking to build a model of a 240z in 3D studio Max It's been ages since I've modelled anything in MAX but I'm going to do a few tutorials and make it as accurate as possible following some technical drawings will help.

    I know it's not Autocad but would this be helpful?
    Depends on whether it is vector or rastor and whether it can output vector files I can do anything with. I'm playing with some raster to vector image conversion stuff like hls30 suggested, but having only mediocre sucess so far getting it into a format I can use. Unfortunately my grid software only accepts limited input formats. Anyway, see what formats it can save in.
    Mark Brandyberry
    1970 240Z (11/69) HLS30 00215
    1978 280Z (05/78) HLS30 466356
    IZCC #802 & CZC#4028

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    the QuackWacker GunnerRob's Avatar
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    I've spent 2 hrs trying to find a DWG (Autocad drawing), an IGES or even a DXF 3d model and came up empty. It looks like Gav240z is about your only hope, unless of course you have access to a 3d digitizer to scan a 1/24 scale model, or a really BIG one to digitize your Z car (maybe JPL in Pasadena has one you could use ).
    Last edited by GunnerRob; 06-02-2005 at 10:17 PM.

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    Registered User mdbrandy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GunnerRob
    I've spent 2 hrs trying to find a DWG (Autocad drawing), an IGES or even a DXF 3d model and came up empty. It looks like Gav240z is about your only hope, unless of course you have access to a 3d digitizer to scan a 1/24 scale model, or a really BIG one to digitize your Z car (maybe JPL in Pasadena has one you could use ).
    Bummer to hear! Oh well, maybe one of these guys will be industrious, or I'll see what kind of 2D/3D raster to vector sort of thing I can come up with. I was able to get a 2D vector outline (approximately), but I haven't gotten it into a form I can use yet. We'll see. Now it's off to the "real" job!
    Mark Brandyberry
    1970 240Z (11/69) HLS30 00215
    1978 280Z (05/78) HLS30 466356
    IZCC #802 & CZC#4028

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    Hi Mark (everyone):
    I'm rather surprised, given the pace of advancing technologies in related fields, that you couldn't simply find a service bureau that could scan one of the Franklin Mint's die cast models and output a 3D Model... for something close to $100.00. Gee, you can buy a Super Computer for your desktop today for a couple grand!

    I called a service bureau here in Clearwater, and the cost was estimated to be about $2K. YEIKS!! As I talked to the nice man, the cost driver was the manual work necessary to take the scanned image from the Point Cloud output by the laser scanner, to the finished model.

    He said that if one of you guys had the RINO S/W... then you could take the Point Cloud and do the work yourself.. which would save a lot of the costs.

    Looking on ebay.. there is a Roland LPX-250 3D Laser Scanner (Demo Model) Item number: 7520552715 with a Buy-it--now price of $7495.00

    The man I talked to here in Clearwater is a Roland Dealer.. he said that is a very low price for that model.. and that it could certainly be used to scan a die cast model of the Z. He said that the LPX-250 came with a pretty good software package.. and again at the price point nothing else on the market was close.. next step up is a $20K system.

    These are Laser Scanners... but there are also other alternatives we could look into.. there are also scanner systems based on taking photo images and doing the conversion to a 3D model etc.

    So, can you find 10 people that would pay $200.00 each for a 3D model, that they could input to their modeling/analysis programs? Do you know anyone that uses/has the RHINO S/W? Maybe you could sell 100 240Z owners a 3D surface model of the 240Z.. that they could play with for $20.00 a copy, or maybe they would buy several different 2D views of the 240-Z that they could use in simple drawing packages or as vector based clip art?...

    Like I said, there simply has to be an economical way to get a die cast model scanned in 3D today.... We need to find that method, or that service...

    Maybe a new side business for you Mark? Do 74 scan jobs for $100.00 each and you'd own your own scanning system... Should be able to easily find 74 small items that people want scanned... with the power of the Internet today.. Maybe start an ebay business selling 3D surface models of items.. Porsche/Ferrari Owners Models etc...

    I'll keep looking... everyone keep thinking.. researching, this has got to be something simple and cheap to get done. Mark, how fine grain or high resolution a model do you need?

    FWIW,
    Carl


    Carl Beck
    Clearwater, FL USA
    http://ZHome.com

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    Registered User mdbrandy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Beck
    Hi Mark (everyone):
    I'm rather surprised, given the pace of advancing technologies in related fields, that you couldn't simply find a service bureau that could scan one of the Franklin Mint's die cast models and output a 3D Model... for something close to $100.00. Gee, you can buy a Super Computer for your desktop today for a couple grand!

    Like I said, there simply has to be an economical way to get a die cast model scanned in 3D today.... We need to find that method, or that service...

    Maybe a new side business for you Mark?

    I'll keep looking... everyone keep thinking.. researching, this has got to be something simple and cheap to get done. Mark, how fine grain or high resolution a model do you need?
    It's amazing what you don't think of. It wasn't a month ago that I was in a meeting here at UIUC with a professor doing surface laser scanning in the CS department.

    http://graphics.cs.uiuc.edu/~garland/papers.html

    I'll touch base with him and see what it might take to get my die cast model scanned...

    That would still leave the raster to vector conversion to do, but it would be a 3D model.

    In terms of resolution, as a vector description, there isn't a "pixel" resolution per se, so it comes down to what resolution of attributes is desired on the actual model to be calculated in the CFD simulation. For gross flow-field results, small details, and in fact, medium level details aren't needed. For more detailed boundary-layer turbulence studies, details at less that a cm scale can be important for a model as big as a car. We generally start at a gross level and refine as needed. Our models of the space shuttle RSRM boosters (which are 30+ meters) currently have a resolution in the 1 to 5 cm range for the grids, but we haven't moved into turbulence or particle tracking yet. Still trying to get the gross flow-field right.

    Anyway, good ideas!

    Mark
    Mark Brandyberry
    1970 240Z (11/69) HLS30 00215
    1978 280Z (05/78) HLS30 466356
    IZCC #802 & CZC#4028

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    another classic car guy EricB's Avatar
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    What you guys need is basically my services... that's exactly what I do...
    I am a digital modeler and build automotive surfaces from scan data and designer sketches here at the BMW design studio in Newbury Park (CA). Problem is that to surface a car correctly we're talking at least 60hrs of work... And of course for it to be accurate you need good data to start from... Using the side/front/rear view illustrations from say a Tamiya 1/12 box or the factory service manual will only get you so far.... To make it perfect I'd have to convince the guy running the laser scanner to at the very least scan all the major feature lines on the Z and some sections of the bodyside, roof, and hood on my Z for me to be able to build an accurate surface model of it. Basically a lot of work has to happen for an IGES model to be available to you all...

    I do have an unbuilt 1/12 Tamiya S30Z and maybe I could bring it in and see if he would scan that for me?? Don't hold your breath though as the guy's somewhat of a sourpuss.

    I wonder if some enterprising software programmer types couldn't (haven't already??) crack the code of GT4 and export the poly model of the S30Z and use that as a basis? Just a thought...

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    Registered User mdbrandy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EricB
    What you guys need is basically my services... that's exactly what I do...
    I am a digital modeler and build automotive surfaces from scan data and designer sketches here at the BMW design studio in Newbury Park (CA). Problem is that to surface a car correctly we're talking at least 60hrs of work... And of course for it to be accurate you need good data to start from... Using the side/front/rear view illustrations from say a Tamiya 1/12 box or the factory service manual will only get you so far.... To make it perfect I'd have to convince the guy running the laser scanner to at the very least scan all the major feature lines on the Z and some sections of the bodyside, roof, and hood on my Z for me to be able to build an accurate surface model of it. Basically a lot of work has to happen for an IGES model to be available to you all...

    I do have an unbuilt 1/12 Tamiya S30Z and maybe I could bring it in and see if he would scan that for me?? Don't hold your breath though as the guy's somewhat of a sourpuss.

    I wonder if some enterprising software programmer types couldn't (haven't already??) crack the code of GT4 and export the poly model of the S30Z and use that as a basis? Just a thought...
    Yup. That sounds like what I'm trying to do! What is GT4? I'm much more an engineer/fluid dynamics/solid mechanics sort of guy than I am graphics. I build meshes to facilitate my engineering analyses, but I usually start from someone elses CAD work except in the simplest cases...
    Mark Brandyberry
    1970 240Z (11/69) HLS30 00215
    1978 280Z (05/78) HLS30 466356
    IZCC #802 & CZC#4028

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    another classic car guy EricB's Avatar
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    GT4 = Gran Turismo 4

    It will probably be a rough poly model though... I'll ask about scanning the 1/12 scale... Don't think it's a white light scanner so I wouldn't expect a point cloud or anything... probably only feature lines... we'll see though...

    -e

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    Default sample dwg from AutoDesk...

    Quote Originally Posted by mdbrandy
    Looking for essentially a surface shell drawing of an S30 chassis. All the talk of drag coefficients and such in one of the other current threads has made me want to see what would happen if I tried modeling one of our cars...(snipped) Would need to be either a format that Pro/Engineer can read, or a generic IGES file exported from your CAD system that I can read into our finite element mesh generation code. Even a 2D elevation outline might be interesting.
    Back in the day, AutoCad (IIRC, version 14) had what was I think a fully modeled drawing of a '57 Chevy supplied as a part of their sample drawings. Can you test your program with that to see if the programs would mesh?

    I will do some digging to see if I can find it at home.

    Just a thought...

    Wayne
    1977 280Z "Lucy" as of 4/05

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    the QuackWacker GunnerRob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mdbrandy
    It's amazing what you don't think of. It wasn't a month ago that I was in a meeting here at UIUC with a professor doing surface laser scanning in the CS department.

    http://graphics.cs.uiuc.edu/~garland/papers.html

    I'll touch base with him and see what it might take to get my die cast model scanned...

    That would still leave the raster to vector conversion to do, but it would be a 3D model.
    Mark, doesn't the laser scanner already read 3d points into the database in its native function? If so, then I would think its output is vector based and the person scanning the model could scan all the surfaces, then bring them into a vector based cad system such as Autocad and manipulate the meshes into position to form one model. From that point the assembled vector model can be exported to a DXF or IGES database for use in your program.

    BTW, I have the '57 Chevy 3d model on my hard drive as we speak, if you want it.

  26. #26
    another classic car guy EricB's Avatar
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    Rob

    Some scanners (white light) do the whole surface and yield a point cloud, others are manually handled and when the trigger is depressed register a point in space one after the next thus giving you a segmented line which is a representation of the section of what you're scanning. Most scanners I've seen save in their own proprietary format but will of course export into whatever you want be it IGES or whatever else.

    -e

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    Registered User mdbrandy's Avatar
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    I believe that the laser scanner that the CS department uses puts out the 'point cloud' sort of output that EricB mentions. Don't know a lot about it yet.

    I know my grid software will read in iges format vector files, or surface mesh files, although I'm not sure what format of surface mesh it needs. I suspect that any fully-triangulated surface file could be manipulated into a format that I could read. I don't have access to anything like AutoCAD here right now, as far as I know...
    Mark Brandyberry
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    Quote Originally Posted by GunnerRob
    BTW, I have the '57 Chevy 3d model on my hard drive as we speak, if you want it.
    What format is the file in? Can you save it in iges? I'd be happy to try to read it in and see what I get if so...
    Mark Brandyberry
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    Quote Originally Posted by mdbrandy
    What format is the file in? Can you save it in iges? I'd be happy to try to read it in and see what I get if so...
    Right now it's in .dwg cad file format. I can save it directly to .dxf, .3ds (3d Studio), and .sat (ACIS). If those won't work for you, I could try and find an IGES translator for Autocad 14.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GunnerRob
    Right now it's in .dwg cad file format. I can save it directly to .dxf, .3ds (3d Studio), and .sat (ACIS). If those won't work for you, I could try and find an IGES translator for Autocad 14.
    Gridgen won't read any of those formats, but I'm looking for an iges translator anyway. Would be nice to have the ability to do these types of translations...
    Mark Brandyberry
    1970 240Z (11/69) HLS30 00215
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    Well what do ya know? Where'd you get that Chris? Did you draw it? Happen to have an elevation view?
    Mark Brandyberry
    1970 240Z (11/69) HLS30 00215
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    Default new in 2002....

    Quote Originally Posted by GunnerRob
    BTW, I have the '57 Chevy 3d model on my hard drive as we speak, if you want it.
    I didn't find that drawing, but R2002 has a semi-truck 3d model in the sample directory. It appears most of the work (the blocks, ie headlights, tires) could be resized for the S30. Who's volunteering? I'm going to play around with it, but offer no hopeful solutions.

    Off-topic, but still related, what version did you like the best (and your specialty, i.e., civil, electrical, mechanical, etc..) My all time favorite has been R14 w/ Softdesk 8 working w/ Civil (surveying)

    Wayne
    1977 280Z "Lucy" as of 4/05

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    I think it'll be great if you get the CFD analysis of an S30 done! I have been tempted to solid model a 240Z for ages for just this purpose, but since I had no contacts in the industry prepared to do the CFD on a contra-deal never put the effort in.

    Perhaps Mr Camouflage in Perth can help you with the 3D model.

    Check out his comment in this thread from a while back, where he mentioned he was working on a 3D model, and had used it to create an animated GIF for his avatar.

    http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/s...ead.php?t=7405

    Mark

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    Quote Originally Posted by wal280z
    Off-topic, but still related, what version did you like the best (and your specialty, i.e., civil, electrical, mechanical, etc..) My all time favorite has been R14 w/ Softdesk 8 working w/ Civil (surveying)

    Wayne
    Hi Wayne,

    I assume I'm the person you were directing this question at. To start with, I've used "DCA/Softdesk AutoArchitect" with Autocad starting with ver. 10/386 and used the two together up to ver. 14 in a facilities engineering environment (architecture, electrical, power distribution, HVAC, piping and utilities, client presentations, rendering) in 3d. I've also used the standalone version of Autocad up to 2000i for mechanical (piping design, HVAC) & structural design. I've also had the frustrating misfortune of having to use Microstation J and V8. What a turd in the punchbowl that turned out to be. I'd have to say 2000i was my favorite version of Autocad. I especially liked the Design Center feature in it. The only "civil" work I've done with cad (Microstation) has been for domestic water and fire main underground distribution systems.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GunnerRob
    Hi Wayne,

    I assume I'm the person you were directing this question at.
    Nope, is was directed to all us CAD guys/gals. Thanks for sharing!

    ::edit:: maybe time to start a new thread in the off-topic so Mark may get a possible answer from the orig. post:: GunnerRob, ya wanna cut 'n paste?
    Wayne
    Last edited by wal280z; 06-03-2005 at 05:15 PM.
    1977 280Z "Lucy" as of 4/05

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    Well, hopefully my reply was an icebreaker for everyone. I'd like to here from everyone else as well.

    BTW, did I get the job?

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    Sorry to just post the link to my drawing and blow town. I drew that picture in AutoCad when I did a garage for Carl Beck. He never built the garage.

    That drawing is by no means accurate enough to model. I just drew it - like a CAD hand drawing, if there is such a thing. I have drawings of all kinds of cars, F1 racers, motorcycles, boats. I use them for presentation architectural plans. Send me your e-mail address and I'll copy some .dwg files to you AutoCad buffs. I picked up AutoCad v.2 when I was using VersiCAD in a UCSD Pascal P-system environment. I am a retired DOS-Meister. Bet you guys didn't know that. These days, I just surf porn sites and pay some young kid to service the computer network.

    So....I suggest the easiest thing might be to draw plans and elevations from the design drawings in the Factory Service Manuals. Mark, your idea has some great merit to it. I don't think anyone is going to come up with any earth shattering aerodynamic discovery, but it sounds like a fun project and if pictures can be posted, they would be fun to see and discuss. I think we pretty much know all about the aerodynamics of the S30. Perhaps the information that has been published has now become collector's items. I think a new discussion would be appropriate. I'll warn you all, though. You're going to find out that the S30 is an aerodynamic...what was that?....turd in a punchbowl? TOO FUNNY! I don't think there is any need to expend a bunch of time and energy on "laser 3D profile dynamic surveys". The information you might get from all that accuracy isn't going to have any application value. If you want an aerodynamicly efficient Zcar, buy a 350.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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    The Nissan book, 280ZX, stated the drag coefficients of the 240Z t0 be .467
    Will
    A Z is beautiful from any angle, I just happen to prefer to view from the drivers' seat!

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    Quote Originally Posted by 26th-Z
    I don't think anyone is going to come up with any earth shattering aerodynamic discovery, but it sounds like a fun project and if pictures can be posted, they would be fun to see and discuss. I think we pretty much know all about the aerodynamics of the S30. Perhaps the information that has been published has now become collector's items. I think a new discussion would be appropriate. I'll warn you all, though. You're going to find out that the S30 is an aerodynamic...what was that?....turd in a punchbowl? TOO FUNNY! I don't think there is any need to expend a bunch of time and energy on "laser 3D profile dynamic surveys". The information you might get from all that accuracy isn't going to have any application value. If you want an aerodynamicly efficient Zcar, buy a 350.
    Not looking to make any great improvements in the aerodynamics - it's just fun. I'm essentially the software engineering manager for our group, and push a lot of "verification and validation" of our codes. Modeling things where the answers are already known from either analytical solutions or experimental results actually gives us nice cases to "prove that our codes work". An S30 model would be half "fun" and half "hmm, I wonder if we'll get the same results that everyone already seems to know?"
    Mark Brandyberry
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    I'm the networking engineer at an architecture firm...I have a buddy that is head of the Autocad department, and uses ACAD 2002 and 2005....I can run this thread by him and I'm sure he can do a drawing for us...let me know if this is of interest and what you'd want...I was thinking a cad of what 26th Z just posted...what formats? Let me know...I know networks, don't know much ACAD....but a buddy will probably say....'that'd be fun!'....let me know
    --Dave aka Dogma420 My Gallery
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    26thZ....do you have a better version of that jpeg you posted? I can't read any of the numbers....
    --Dave aka Dogma420 My Gallery
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    Quote Originally Posted by dogma420
    I'm the networking engineer at an architecture firm...I have a buddy that is head of the Autocad department, and uses ACAD 2002 and 2005....I can run this thread by him and I'm sure he can do a drawing for us...let me know if this is of interest and what you'd want...I was thinking a cad of what 26th Z just posted...what formats? Let me know...I know networks, don't know much ACAD....but a buddy will probably say....'that'd be fun!'....let me know
    Since I started this thread off, I'll chime in here and say that while 26th-Z's drawing is cool, it isn't much good for what I am interested in doing. If I put together a pseudo-2D CFD model, it would have to be of a profile from the side. I don't think we'd be as interested in the flow around the sides of the car, as we are of the flow over and under the car. So if not a full 3D CAD model, then I'd need an elevation view from the side. I'm playing with trying to figure out the raster to vector type conversions of the line drawings that are already available, but I haven't had 100% luck yet.
    Mark Brandyberry
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    1978 280Z (05/78) HLS30 466356
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    When I drew the drawing in my gallery, I imported the .jpg and scaled it to approximatley the metric dimensions shown by laying out the size in Cad with construction lines. Then I traced over the lines using the curve and line command. Once I got the basic curves and lines drawn, I edited the lines to make the endpoints meet. I didn't spend a lot of time accurately tracing the picture or making sure the picture was a matching scale. It's close, but it could be better. Lets see if this replacement picture will load. Its nice and large.
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    Hi 26th-Z,

    You mentioned you could provide a copy of the 2D ACAD drawing you did to those who wanted it. (.dwg or .dxf is fine)

    Could you send me a copy to my email address? Many Thanks.

    Hi mdbrandy,

    As mentioned before, I've looked into doing a 3D solid/surface model of an HS30 in the past; there's a company here in Sydney that I know (I'm a self employed mech eng working with industrial design firms) that can do EXACTLY what you're after; check their website:

    New Dawn 3D -> http://www.nd3d.com/

    I'll give 'em a call next week and see if I can't call in a few favours. I'm pretty sure their scanner can handle things as large as a car. As my car has a front air dam and rear spoiler (check my Avatar) it may not be the best subject for a "baseline" scan, but I'm sure I could get one of the guys in our club (Z Car Club of Sydney) with a HS30 std body to offer it up for scanning! If not maybe a model might be an alternative (eg 1/24th scale Fujimi plastic model). Wadayathink?

    Will let you know how I go.

    Mark

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    Hi guys, I wanted to re-open this thread from 2005! Did anyone find a CAD drawing or (better) a 3D model of the 240z ? If someone wants to digitize or scan my Franklin Mint model I can send it to you.
    Mike

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    Quote Originally Posted by Schev View Post
    I may be able to do a CAD drawing for you. Ill need a side view of the car with visible dimensions on it, the one Mat73 has dimensions that are unclear. Or i guess I could also use a side view of the car period, but it would be very time consuming that way. Something that would also be very neat, would be to draw an S30 up in something like SolidWorks. I think making an "exact" CAD drawing might be teadious, but definately do-able
    That won't give you any curvature though. If someone take a scale model and does a 3D scan of it, you might be able to work from there.
    Last edited by bpilati; 08-23-2007 at 12:52 PM.
    Bryan Pilati
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    I found this pretty basic 3D model for Google Sketchup. It's very rough and looks like it was created after the 280ZX.

    http://sketchup.google.com/3dwarehou...e66278f4022455
    Mike

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    Here's THE BEST model I have ever seen of a Datsun Roadster. This is EXACTLY what I am looking for in the 240z.

    http://www.turbosquid.com/FullPrevie....cfm/ID/222046

    I contacted this guy about building us a model, but, his price is in the thousands.
    Mike

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    Mark,

    With regards to Z aerodynamics, you may want to check in over at HybridZ! They have been doing some wind tunnel testing on our favorite cars. Just thought it could be helpful to find out what they have discovered.

    Tom

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    Here's THE BEST model I have ever seen of a Datsun Roadster. This is EXACTLY what I am looking for in the 240z.

    http://www.turbosquid.com/FullPrevie....cfm/ID/222046

    I contacted this guy about building us a model, but, his price is in the thousands.
    Hi Mike,
    I have been wanting to create one for over a year but can't justify the time involved yet. I studied this field at Uni but didn't get to develop my skills too much further. I'd really like to be good at this stuff but it requires alot of research tutorials and texture creation.

    Perhaps ask one of the guys here: http://www.cg-cars.com/ in the forums if they would like to model a 240z? I know someone created a C10. You never know one of those guys might do it just for the challenge?

    One day I'll get around to doing this as I'd like to experiment with different designs to see how my own vision of the perfect Zcar would look.

    Cheers,

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    I've seen 3 or 4 really good looking S30 3d models on various 3d forums a while ago, but cant remember where. I'll have to go looking for them again.
    www.nostalgictrio.com Skyline - Silvia - Fairlady Z
    www.ozdat.com The Australian Datsun site.
    www.cafepress.com/vintagedatsun

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    A member here was working on a 240Z model,

    http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthre...9&page=2&pp=15

    Thead got closed after being inactive for 12 months. Don't know what happened to it.

    His homepage is at http://www.geocities.com/jasonparuta/ maybe someon could send him an email and ask about it.
    www.nostalgictrio.com Skyline - Silvia - Fairlady Z
    www.ozdat.com The Australian Datsun site.
    www.cafepress.com/vintagedatsun

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    Oh, I know Jason. I'll send him an email. Thanks for the connection!
    Mike

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    Any luck?

    Dave
    Last edited by thehelix112; 11-09-2007 at 12:07 PM.
    Dave Andrews

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    No luck at all... I sent Jason two emails and he hasn't responded. I'd really like to create a car in 2nd Life...
    Mike

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    This is an old thread but in case anyone else runs across it I notice sketchup drawings are now available for the Z car. Google finds them with 240Z sketchup. There is a blue one and a red one, I don't know how they might be different other than color and I don't know if sketchup is considered cad. I can't edit either the blue or red one but I can add to them, I think that is because they were saved as models.
    Mike
    Last edited by Mikes Z car; 07-05-2009 at 05:25 PM. Reason: clarify

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