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Thread: Terrible Vendor--Datsun Parts

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    Angry Terrible Vendor--Datsun Parts

    I received the 240Z as advertised on E-bay:

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...%3D%26_fvi%3D1

    The car was not driveable. The springs in back were to short and rattled. The brakes would not stop the car. The car vibrated so badly that you could not go over 40MPH. The car was about 30% unrestored. The added paint job was awful. Paint drops were on the hood. The blue original color was showing thru. He said over 25000 in new parts, but could only come up with recipts for around 10000. I have reproted him to e-bay for asking me to pay him directly and not go thru e-bay. I have reported him to the FBI internet Fraud division. l have reported him to the Better Business Bureau in his home town. I have hired an attorney to sue him for fraud which should happen in about two weeks. I have taken the car to Asian automotive in Savannah to try to get the car fixed. Do not buy from this guy. He overstates what he is selling.

    Any questions, feel free to contact me by e-mail. lj_bryan@hargray.com
    Last edited by Arne; 02-13-2009 at 08:49 PM. Reason: Post cleaned by Arne

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    The following is a list of emails in chonological order, the text of Als emails has been edited in only two ways, Als comments(his exact and unedited written comments) are in red, and many blank spaces have been removed to shorten the post.

    From: Larry Bryan
    Subject: Re: 240Z car comments
    To: "Datsun Parts"
    Date: Monday, September 22, 2008, 1:06 PM


    I am sorry you feel that way. If you are truly interested, I have a very poor level of satisfaction. You stated in your ad that nothing was left undone, completely restored. I asked you what it would cost to do a great concourse paint job and you told me you could get it done for $2000.00 (no body work necessary). We agreed that you would remove the windshield and back glass. You did not. The paint is not good.

    Is the suspension stock. Has it been lowered. The car seemed to bottom out and hit the exhaust pipe. The brakes don't work right. What is wrong with them. They barely stop at all.

    Al I am not someone with little financial resources that you may usually deal with. I have just contacted the Police fraud department in your county and asked them how I should proceed. They told me to provide the info on the fraud, which I will have the report shortly and visually they will also be able to see, and to file a report with the local police. The local Blufftom police will contact them and they said they would proceed to contact you. I have also called my local attorney and he is ready to proceed. Pictures and verbiage will hit all of the forums to show them what was received versus described. I have a copy of your sales document. I will call E-bay and tell them what happened and that you asked me to pay you direct and provide them with pictures and verbiage as to what is wrong with the car. I can do all these things or you can work with me to take the car back or pay someone to put the car in the condition you described. If you will tell me your decision, then I will know what I will do over the next week.

    Al I don't know why you felt it necessary to overstate the condition of the car so much, but you did. You said the parts were new and genuine new old stock 240Z parts. You can look at the car and tell that not every nut and bolt was removed, re-plated and restored. You can just open the door and see where EACH part of the car is not brand new or restored to better than new condition. The radio did not work, the dash door was not restored, the seat adjustment on the passenger seat is not all there. the door attachment on the passenger door is broken, etc etc etc.


    Larry
    ----- Original Message -----
    From: Datsun Parts
    To: Larry Bryan
    Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 3:27 PM
    Subject: 240Z car comments

    My comments are irrelevant, all that matters are your and your satisfaction. I have learned how Will thinks and I am sure it impacted your perception. Your recent chosen words are offensive and your standards seem be that you are getting a Barrett Jackson car. This is a daily driver that I put a lot of time, money, effort and energy into.

    My description and words to you about the car are very true.

    Here are some suggestions on your comments since you asked...

    The wheels are the cause the of shaking, I never test drove it after I installed those and it was fine with the steel wheels. Double check the wheels bearing nut and lug nuts are tight.

    Every part of the suspension is new, so there is no problem there.

    The re-paint work was $2,000 and not $10,000 to $15,000 as most showroom cars get. That car and paint are beautiful and will win many shows for you. The thin paint on the hatch is my fault as I got some glue on it and the cleaner I used wore down the paint. I have included some touch up paint in your parts box which is on the way.

    This "report" you speak of has no validity to me. This car was sold to you as is based off our phone conversations and agreements. I never offered to make any additional changes and this transaction was considered complete once you took position of the car. I have fulfilled all of my statements about how this transaction would be completed.

    Trust me, I want you to be happy as I do every customer. I value your business and respect your opinion. I am sure once you realize what you have and compare that to what you paid you will be more then satisfied. I welcome your comments and will do what I can to assist you to resolve them.


    Datsun Parts
    Al Allen
    909-684-8814
    http://myworld.ebay.com/datsun-parts


    --- On Mon, 9/22/08, Larry Bryan wrote:

    From: Larry Bryan
    Subject: Re: 240Z car
    To: "Datsun Parts"
    Date: Monday, September 22, 2008, 11:33 AM


    Al no comments on the condition of the car?


    ----- Original Message -----
    From: Datsun Parts
    To: Larry Bryan
    Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 1:48 PM
    Subject: Re: 240Z car


    Incredible! I paid to have that shipment over-nighted, it has un-replaceable documents. Let me know when you get it.

    Datsun Parts
    Al Allen
    909-684-8814
    http://myworld.ebay.com/datsun-parts

    --- On Mon, 9/22/08, Larry Bryan wrote:

    From: Larry Bryan
    Subject: Re: 240Z car
    To: "Datsun Parts"
    Date: Monday, September 22, 2008, 10:36 AM


    Al I have not been to the mail box today to see if the documents arrived. I did get the car Sat. I was shocked when I got the car. It shook so bad trying to drive it home I could not go over 40MPH and the brakes don't work right. The suspension appears to have serious problems. Will just came over and looked at the car and documented which parts of the car were not restored as described. "Every last nut and bolt removed, re-plated and restored." "Overall every single part is brand new or restored to better than new condition." In addition, the paint has many flaws and the blue is showing thru in several places and the paint around the hatch, when up, shows blue in several places.

    It is obvious upon inspection that the statements you made are not even close to correct. Will came over to inspect the car and took pictures and is going to send me a detailed write up as to where your sales statements are not true.

    It saddened me to see what I got versus what you said I would get. When I get his report and pictures I will be back to you to determine what I want to ask you to do.

    Larry
    ----- Original Message -----
    From: Datsun Parts
    To: Larry Bryan
    Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 1:07 PM
    Subject: Re: 240Z car


    Did you get the car and the documents safe?


    Datsun Parts
    Al Allen
    909-684-8814
    http://myworld.ebay.com/datsun-parts

    --- On Sun, 9/14/08, Larry Bryan wrote:

    From: Larry Bryan
    Subject: Re: 240Z car
    To: "Datsun Parts"
    Date: Sunday, September 14, 2008, 4:23 PM


    Al thanks for the info, but I wish I had know many of the items below before now. I guess I am surprised. I will do my best to fisnish the car. The glove box looks old in the latest picture, and looked different in the e-bay pictures. Am I right.

    ----- Original Message -----
    From: Datsun Parts
    To: Larry Bryan
    Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 4:11 PM
    Subject: 240Z car

    Larry-

    I have recently learned you have have developed a relationship with my biggest credic Will Stokes. I also wanted to advise you the the Z is on the way and will arrive a week from today, Saturday the 21st. Here is a list of problems with the car.

    1. I lost the door key, it is a DT13 blank single sided which is hard to find. I ordered two and will send them to you so you can have it cut.
    2. There is not spare tire, or jack, I never had those. There is one in it now but it is part of the 4 steel wheel set, the driver has the other 3 and the hubcaps.
    3. There is a dent on the fuel tank, it was always there and has no effect on the functionality of the tank.
    4. I noticed one brake light was out when the driver was loading it in the tailer, may be just a bulb.
    5.Engine only has about 500 miles, you should change the oil soon.
    6. The A/C compressor switch is in the center console, it is direct power to the battery through a relay, so make sure the switch is off when you park it.
    7. The 10 cent spring clip on the passenger side door window crank is missing. You can get one at any autoparts. I removed it when I was trying to get a key made and lost it.
    8. The passenger side rear tire was a bit low on air, may have a valve stem leak, the tires have ZERO miles on them as I only istalled them just before the driver arrived.
    9. There is a bolt missing on the passenger side front bumper that is causing a 1/8' rubbing scratch, you may not notice it when you add the small bolt, but I will sent tocuh up paint in the package with the paperwork too.
    10. There are no horns. I had never found working ones. The horn button on the steering wheel is just popped on so if you want to add a horn or change the ugly steering wheel it is easy to do.
    11. There is a door latch spring mechanism that is missing on the drivers side, they are out of production now and I never found one. The door locks and closes fine without it.
    12. The is a 1/4 window rubber strip on the drivers side that I never installed, I have it and will send it to you.
    13. I have the OEM radio that I will ship to you.
    14. Please return the California license plate.
    15. The hatch has brown pop rivets on the panel, I wll send you a pack of black rivits as i was out of stock and forgot to order more in black.
    16. The windshield and hatch glass were not removed when it was repainted.

    Datsun Parts
    Al Allen
    909-684-8814
    http://myworld.ebay.com/datsun-parts

    End the email exchange.

    The Car was paid for on or about August 5th 2008.
    The Car was delivered on or about September 20th, 2008

    Please Note In the email exchange above, Al states, "My description and words to you about the car are very true."

    Please Note Als Description of the car:"
    "Datsun Nissan Z 240Z Restored 1970 All New NOS Parts
    Up for bid is a Series 1 240Z. Production date of 3/70 it was one of the first 8500 made. This restoration includes over $25,000 in New and Genuine New Old Stock 240Z parts. Every last nut and bolt was removed, re-plated and restored. This Z was a personal project car that I took special pride in to make sure it was a true award winner. Nothing was left undone, completely restored interior includes and NEW Dash, New Door Panels, New Seats and New Carpet. All of the gauges including the clock work perfect.
    The factory spec rebuilt engine is a L24 block with a E31 head. Every part of the engine was disassembled and rebuilt to factory OEM specs. It has been professionally tuned and runs great. OEM 4 speed transmission is also rebuilt with all new parts.
    Overall every single part is brand new or restored to better then new condition.
    Please be advised that the paint work was not done to Concours requirements. If you wanted a true 100 point car you would need to have it repainted. During assembly it suffered a few bumps and bruises that will need to be fixed.
    "

    Please note In the Same Email exchange above, Al also states:"Your recent chosen words are offensive and your standards seem be that you are getting a Barrett Jackson car. This is a daily driver that I put a lot of time, money, effort and energy into."
    Last edited by hls30.com; 02-23-2009 at 10:21 PM.

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    Pictures of the car as it was delivered can be found here:
    http://www.classiczcars.com/photopos...y.php?cat=3526

    Will
    A Z is beautiful from any angle, I just happen to prefer to view from the drivers' seat!

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    Quote Originally Posted by ljbryan View Post
    I received the 240Z as advertised on E-bay:
    The added paint job was awful. Paint drops were on the hood. The blue original color was showing thru.
    Like everyone here, I'm sorry to hear that this turned out like it has. I can also say that your not the only one to have an experience like this.

    As I recall, in his original ad he said that the paint job would have to be redone if one wanted it to be show quality. Perhaps I don't understand your statement that "The added paint job was awful." Did you mean the paint job that was on the car as advertised, covering the original blue, that the seller said wasn't show quality?

    FWIW,
    Carl B.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Beck View Post
    Like everyone here, I'm sorry to hear that this turned out like it has. I can also say that your not the only one to have an experience like this.

    As I recall, in his original ad he said that the paint job would have to be redone if one wanted it to be show quality. Perhaps I don't understand your statement that "The added paint job was awful." Did you mean the paint job that was on the car as advertised, covering the original blue, that the seller said wasn't show quality?

    FWIW,
    Carl B.

    I paid Al extra to put the concourse paint job he said it needed. He was to take off the trim and the front and back windows out. The trim was not removed nor were the windows mentioned.

    Larry
    Last edited by hls30.com; 10-20-2008 at 06:58 PM.

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    I asked Al to take the car back. He would not do so. I made a stupid mistake here. I always buy new cars. I was not familiar with the Z. Al told me about his creditials, his past winners. I looked at his high rating and thru talking to him, I trusted him. While this money was not insignificant, it fortunately was not a really big deal to me. I am not worried about the money really, I just don't like being cheated. I am going to sue Al for the cost of getting the car to the condition he advertised. "Every part is new or restored to better than new". I am going to sue for the return of my money I paid to have a quality paint job put on the car. The attorney is planning to start this process next week.

    Larry
    Last edited by Arne; 02-13-2009 at 08:45 PM. Reason: Post cleaned by Arne

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    Here is another update,
    1)Larrys car has had the springs corrected( the ones on it were short to the point the rear suspension was resting on the bump stops and the springs rattleing anytime the car went over a bump-from no longer being under tension),
    2) One caliper replaced, as one was frozen, and there is still an issue with the car pulling hard to one side when braking-the pads will be replaced, they appear to be mismatched left to right(one pair of high performance-one set of run of the mill)
    3)Four proper sized tires put on it-the ones on it were too small-put there to allow more clearance to address the clearance issues from the severe lowering of the car.
    4) the Muffler was reinstalled(Al had put it on upside down and backwards),
    5)the check valve for the mastervac was re-installed correctly(it was installed backwards-meaning the car had no vacuum to power brake booster-and thereby no power brakes)
    6) There is still a shimmy in the front end, meaning the rack probably needs to be
    7) serious Dents in the floor from jacking the car in the wrong place to replace the wheels have been removed.


    Most of the issues left to correct are:
    a) restore the steering wheel,
    b) clam shell,
    c) restore/replace the turnsignal switch-only works one way,
    d) restore the hazzard switch and its hardware,
    e) Restore the original radio(completly dead, worn and broken face plate),
    f) correct the after market radio -lights up but no sound)
    g) Restore the scratched shifter, replace the torn shifter boot,
    h) restore the worn/missing/broken hardware for the ps door, seats, visors, mirror and seatbelts
    i) restore crazed/worn/broken console,
    j) cracked rear trims(all but one),
    k) cut shock tower upholstery,
    l) worn tunnel upholstery,
    m) scratched up gage lenses,
    n) cracked knob(s) on HCP,
    o) replace the mismatched fasteners through out the car,
    p) no key to the doors(ign Key only),
    q) several dash lights are out,
    r) replate the engine hardware that was painted instead of replated
    s) correct Fit of the PS headlight cover that was installed improperly(3/4" off)
    t) correct the core support damage
    u) Remove the dents in the car that was said to be ready for a concours paint job he was paid extra(exactly the amount he asked for) to do and did not.
    v) replacement of the hatch(raw bondo squished in all over the inside)
    w) replacement of the hood
    x) hatch shelf/corner replacement (slathered filler all over the swiss cheese)
    y) Strip the car, professionally repaint(Al was paid what he asked to remove the glass and paint the car properly-he did not)
    Z) Put the car back together in the condition AL chose to advertise it as being in-even though it was no where close:

    Quoting from ALs Ad: "Datsun Nissan Z 240Z Restored 1970 All New NOS Parts
    ... This restoration includes over $25,000 in New and Genuine New Old Stock 240Z parts. Every last nut and bolt was removed, re-plated and restored. This Z was a personal project car that I took special pride in to make sure it was a true award winner. Nothing was left undone, completely restored interior includes and NEW Dash, New Door Panels, New Seats and New Carpet. All of the gauges including the clock work perfect.
    ...
    Overall every single part is brand new or restored to better then new condition..."

    Photos of the car as delivered can be seen here:
    http://www.classiczcars.com/photopos...y.php?cat=3526
    More photos showing the difference between Als work and the correct way to restore a Datsun have been taken as the work has been done, I will see about adding them over the next week or so.
    The car was pretty, but it was not driveable as delivered, and it was far from the description Al gave it on ebay.
    Will
    PS,
    In Als version of "a true award winner", with "Nothing... left undone", and "completely restored..." car, There are a good many more issues to correct than I listed above, but in a project this size, it has to be taken in smaller bites so as not to be overwhelming.
    In fairness, Al does seem to have done a good job on the engine/drive train, the car runs well(though the shifter was sloppy-Al forgot to replace the shifter bushings in his rebuild-once that was corrected, the car shifts very well-too bad it wasn't safe to drive as delivered-no brakes(emergency or otherwise, and a steering wheel that was impossible to hold for a 240lb man(me) at 40 miles per hour.
    Last edited by Arne; 02-13-2009 at 08:39 PM. Reason: Post cleaned by Arne
    A Z is beautiful from any angle, I just happen to prefer to view from the drivers' seat!

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    Here is another update on The Car AL sent to South Carolina.

    I picked up the car from Asian Automotive/Carter Racing this morning. I spent the day with the car and drove it in all kinds of dry conditions while getting estimates for correcting Als version of award winning bodywork and Concourse paint(Every estimate included a replacement hood and a replacement hatch-those on the car were too full of poorly done previous repairs, filler and rust to economically repair at $44/hour. The lowest bid to correct the work so far is $4270.11 with the provision that hidden poor repairs will add to the cost of those that were exposed when the back sides of several repairs were examined(anyone know how to take a photo through a non-camera ready borescope?).

    1) Even though the car ran strong when I drove it before, it turns out Al tuned the car for idle-IDLE! The carbs were neither balanced nor adjusted for performance. Now that they are tuned really well, the muffler installed properly, the ride height corrected, proper tires installed, and the brakes functioning properly the car is still seriously too loud at and about 2000 rpm, but at least now it is a blast to drive-it is night and day different than the last time I drove it. At 4k you can feel the aftermarket cam come into its sweet spot.

    2) Only the headlights and one side of the emergency flashers work. No other lights(other than the one on the new Kenwood radio that AL installed so as to make no noise at all) actually light up! No turn signals, no markers, no running lights, map light dash light or engine light. Replacing the fuses-all of them-made no change!

    3) At any speed the exhaust fumes in the car are so bad that the only way it can be driven is with the windows up-since the AC was wired to be on if the car is on(NO THERMOSTATIC CONTROL), it is on all the time, but there is very little airflow through the car, and even less cooling-it was in the 50s here in Savannah today, and with the AC running full blast all the time it was still colder outside than in the car-almost no airflow through the system, and inoperative controls! A fine example of Als HVAC ability-he was paid extra to install a WORKING a/c unit! On a 50 degree afternoon holding any speed up to 70 miles per hour with the Ac blower on full blast and the compressor on continuously, the AC Al installed can't keep up...
    What about the heat you ask- the AC was wired to be on all the time!

    Will
    Last edited by hls30.com; 12-20-2008 at 08:39 PM.
    A Z is beautiful from any angle, I just happen to prefer to view from the drivers' seat!

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    A small and concise update.
    Out of 87 fasteners removed today 78 were coarse self-tapping sheetmetal screws-of those 64 were forced into locations with pre-cut threads. Six fasteners were correctly reused, and the balance were 10/24 threaded into metric threads.
    There were eighteen missing fasteners including the passenger side seat rear retainers-meaning the rear of the passenger seat was not bolted down-though the studs had been replaced.
    The door panels have cut lines and damage underneath, meaning they were probably not NOS, but a recovered set-though nicely done.
    The radio install included a dead Kicker Amp under the seat-not secured at all, and grounded with a self-drilling sheetmetal screw through the floor-it appears that the improperly prepared frayed ends of the 8g wires used shorted against the case blowing the underhood fuse, and the amp.
    For the fuel and vapor hoses in the back Al used heater hose, and made no attempt to seal the hoses where they passed through the floor. There are also several welding burn throughs at the back of the car-meaning more holes to the outside for fumes to pull through. Pictures will be posted later.
    Have a look at the speaker box-yes it is sagging when upside down.
    It was attatched at the bottom with a single self drilling sheet metal screw through the floor-right on top of the gas tank.
    Will
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    Last edited by Arne; 02-13-2009 at 08:26 PM. Reason: Post cleaned by Arne
    A Z is beautiful from any angle, I just happen to prefer to view from the drivers' seat!

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    As promised...
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    A Z is beautiful from any angle, I just happen to prefer to view from the drivers' seat!

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    and more...

    No pins on the vent grills-the pins align and secure the inner plenums-meaning without the pins they slide around with each turn of the car-installation hole filled-and not opened up before installation means the grills pins were broken before installation.

    Lots of openings in the rear of the car, incomplete and miss-aligned repairs, untreated rust...

    The Passenger door is a filler piece too, but because it is painted silver, I could not get the pictures to show the dents inside...
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    Last edited by hls30.com; 01-12-2009 at 07:15 PM.
    A Z is beautiful from any angle, I just happen to prefer to view from the drivers' seat!

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    and more...


    The aftermarket Kenwood radio was installed with all of the speaker wires cut off-using only the rca outs. In reviewing the proper owners/install manual downloaded from Kenwoods web site for the unit-this option is not listed at all-leading me to believe(not tested yet) that the amplifier in the radio was(is) probably dead when the unit was installed. Have a peek at the wiring on the license lamp-indicative of the radio install. Several cut wires(B+) cut not wrapped.
    Will
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    Last edited by hls30.com; 01-12-2009 at 07:19 PM.
    A Z is beautiful from any angle, I just happen to prefer to view from the drivers' seat!

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    I am very appreciative of the good work that Will is putting in making a good car out of the piece of over rated crap that Al sold as a fully restored car. When complete it will be an outstanding car. Can't wait to drive it and show it. You have to look under the covers to see the quality of work that Al does. He hides, short-cuts, and lies about the quality of what he has done. When complete, this car will look on the inside like it does on the outside. It will be what Al said it was---"a fully restored car, each and every part is either new or better than new"

    Larry
    Last edited by Arne; 02-13-2009 at 08:18 PM. Reason: Post cleaned by Arne

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    I went out today to check on the paint and body progress on Larry's car.
    The paint was chemically stripped to about 70% clean so as to show the type and quality of metal repair Al did in his restoration of the car.
    What was found was:

    1) More mismatched, un-restored, hardware-store fasteners securing everything-the Air conditioner condenser was held on with just two zip ties.

    2) A healthy amount of dent repair was done with filler on top of two or more layers of paint-1/8" in places-indicating that the only attempt at sheet metal repair was to call for less filler, and not to correct the shape of the metal.

    3) In many of the places where the layers of old paint were ground off, the metal was allowed to sit uncovered long enough to "brown" from exposure, and veins of rust had already started under the filler.

    4) As illustrated earlier, the car had been hit front and rear, under the filler at the roof seam at the passenger side quarter window was one of six kinks in the chassis caused by front and rear impact. The passenger side measures almost one inch shorter than the drivers side, explaining the fact AL could not get the front bumper to bolt up on that side no matter how much he tweaked it. The Kinks also explained the torn spot welds on the core support. One thing I did not catch was the fact that the repair to the rear of the car was so poor that the taillight panel is actually leaning inward-explaining the voids at its attachment to the rear floor, and the buckling in the spare well and on either side of it in the rear floor-the rear panel was manipulated under pressure and welded in to fit, the area was not trammed correctly then the panel replaced after properly fitting it to the cut out area.

    Some of my pictures did not come out well, I will retake and post them in the next few days.

    The Gentleman Restoring the paint and body work is no stranger to concours work, among his many awards for his work his cars have won awards at:
    1) Hilton Head Island Concours (Ferrari)
    2)Shelby American Automobile Club (289 COBRA DRAGONSNAKE and 289 COBRA USRRC)
    3) Pebble Beach Concours (1940 Continental Town car, made from a cabriolet, 1941 Continental Coupe-both restored for Director Joel Silver)
    4) Amelia Island Concours (Ferrari 250GTO)

    Currently in the Spa with Larrys 240Z are a big Healey, a series 1 Jag XKE, and a Ferarri Testarossa, when I dropped the car off last week, there was a Rolls Royce Silver Cloud, An Aston Marton DB9, and some American muscle.

    As a side note, the gentleman who handled the Mechanical correction to Larry's car
    Grew up working in a Savannah Z specific garage. He was an ASE certified Master Mechanic by his eighteenth birthday. He spent several years working for Winston Cup Racing teams, was the track manager at Roebling Road and has built countless champion cars for privateers and large companies. Among his many victories he has the distinction of winning the Pan American Road Race, La Carrera PanAmerica, in a car he designed and built.

    Will

    PS-Yup that is Larry's car checking out the fanny of the Testarossa through the doorway...
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    Last edited by hls30.com; 01-28-2009 at 07:13 PM.
    A Z is beautiful from any angle, I just happen to prefer to view from the drivers' seat!

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    More details...
    The floor rear floor between the taillights and the riser behind the seats is seriously tweaked. There is not one level spot in it. The tirewell is not round, or level, as pointed out before the rear floor beside the tire well is bent upward on both sides, the floor in front of the tirewell is bowed up, what I originally thought were shrinkage cracks in the sound deadening have turned out to be stress cracks. The curve at the rear of the car is 1/2" inward from where it should be at the center of the panel-and it is all in the rear floor.
    The car will be trammed as per the Nissan Restoration Checklist over the next week, and I will get pictures with a straitedge across the area to show how distorted it is.

    In the meantime here are some more pictures of other impact damaged areas.
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    Last edited by hls30.com; 02-05-2009 at 09:55 PM.
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    And a few more...
    Notes:
    1) Rust in battery area-not treated-just painted over, and coming back-even though the car has not been stored outside since it came to the low country.
    2) The body steel extending down the hatch is 1/2" lower than the hatch-built up with filler.
    3) A dallop of filler in the top corner of the windshield channel?
    4) No attempt to bump any of the metal close to the right shape-every panel(except the roof) has shallow dents that will be worked out instead of filled.
    5) more than 1" of filler in several places
    6) The car shows absolutely no evidence of any attempt at chassis straightening.

    PS I shot a video of the Testarosa being backed past Larrys Z, you can feel the Z begging for a few more minutes...btw the a car that red, that wide, and attention getting should have a louder deeper growl!
    I'll post it later.
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    Last edited by hls30.com; 02-05-2009 at 10:42 PM.
    A Z is beautiful from any angle, I just happen to prefer to view from the drivers' seat!

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    Ok, looking at some of the pics of the dented rear end, and remembering the hood, and (i think) drivers side floor dent, im now asking....
    "is that car a good candidate for a restoration?"

    I've seen straighter bodies sitting around in the desert for $200-400. Maybe it would be better to buy one, and build it back up.

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    Default My thoughts exactly...

    Quote Originally Posted by Tarmac View Post
    Ok, looking at some of the pics of the dented rear end, and remembering the hood, and (i think) drivers side floor dent, im now asking....
    "is that car a good candidate for a restoration?"

    I've seen straighter bodies sitting around in the desert for $200-400. Maybe it would be better to buy one, and build it back up.

    There are much better, straighter shells out there for cheap just to start over with and transfer the good stuff. I got a really great one for $500. I couldn't imagine (or justify) the labor cost in getting that beat-up mess back into shape.
    Last edited by Arne; 02-13-2009 at 08:21 PM. Reason: Post cleaned by Arne
    '72 240Z

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    The final tally of sheet metal replacement is in, the hood, hatch, lower valence center panel, and passenger door will be replaced. Restoring them with metal bumping would cost more than replacing them.


    There are problems with replacing the chassis. In Ca they may well be $500 and findable, but then there is the shipping to get it here. Plus there could be legal ramifications later.

    Will
    Last edited by Arne; 02-13-2009 at 08:21 PM. Reason: Post cleaned by Arne
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    Leave it to me to say everything was pretty much done. The DS dog leg was repaired by bashing it in, closing it up with fiberglass, and filling the void with filler-visualize a baseball sized hole beaten in with a five pound hammer and rammed chock full of bog.. I am wondering where the reinforcement that should be under there is. I left the camera at home, and will post my cell pictures as soon as I find the cable.

    Looks like the most cost effective repair will be to replace the entire rear clip.
    Will
    Last edited by hls30.com; 02-12-2009 at 02:12 PM.
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    This Post contains ONLY Public Records, Better Business Bureau Records, for DatsunParts and DatsunPartsLLC, Whois records for datsunpartsllc.com. and ebay names. All posted records were freely available with out cost at the indicated sites at the indicated dates.


    All include the date they were captured.

    From The website of the California Secretary of State. 09/30/2008
    Permit Number 100933256 is Closed and is not valid after the closed date
    Owner Name: NEWELL GENE ALLEN, JR
    Business Name: DATSUN PARTS
    Address: 6268 FILLY CT
    RANCHO CUCAMONGA
    CA

    From the Beter Business Bureau as of 12/17/08
    The Better Business Bureau Rates DatsunParts a "D"
    " Our opinion of what this rating means:
    We have enough concerns about this company (for example, their offer, customer complaints, advertising, etc.) that we recommend caution in doing business with it. "


    From The website of the Nevada Secretary of State
    Business Entity Information
    Status: Active File Date: 10/1/2008 12:30:02 PM
    Type: Domestic Limited-Liability Company Corp Number: E0629462008-5
    Qualifying State: NV List of Officers Due: 10/31/2009
    Managed By: Managers Expiration Date:

    Registered Agent Information
    Name: NEVADA STATE CORPORATE NETWORK, INC.
    Address 1: 777 N RAINBOW BLVD STE 250
    Address 2: City: LAS VEGAS
    State: NV Zip Code: 89107
    Phone: Fax:
    Mailing Address 1: Mailing Address 2:
    Mailing City: Mailing State: NV
    Mailing Zip Code:
    Agent Type: Commercial Registered Agent - Corporation
    Jurisdiction: NEVADA Status: Active
    View all business entities under this registered agent

    Financial Information
    No Par Share Count: 0 Capital Amount: $ 0
    No stock records found for this company

    Officers Include Inactive Officers
    Manager - CHARLENE ALLEN
    Address 1: 777 N. RAINBOW BLVD. STE. 250 Address 2:
    City: LAS VEGAS State: NV
    Zip Code: 89107 Country: USA
    Status: Active Email:
    Manager - NEWELL ALLEN, JR.
    Address 1: 777 N. RAINBOW BLVD. Address 2: STE. 250
    City: LAS VEGAS State: NV
    Zip Code: 89107 Country: USA
    Status: Active Email:

    From Network Solutions Whois Search:

    Domain Name: DATSUNPARTSLLC.COM
    Registrar: ABACUS AMERICA, INC. DBA NAMES4EVER
    Whois Server: whois.names4ever.com
    Referral URL: http://www.names4ever.com
    Name Server: NS1.ABAC.COM
    Name Server: NS2.ABAC.COM
    Status: ok
    Updated Date: 05-feb-2009
    Creation Date: 05-feb-2009
    Expiration Date: 05-feb-2011

    >>> Last update of whois database: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 00:58:38 EST <<<

    DATSUN PARTS, LLC.
    From The BetterBusiness Bureau
    DATSUN PARTS LLC
    Number: 200830110001 Date Filed: 10/23/2008 Status: active
    Jurisdiction: NEVADA
    Address
    777 N RAINBOW BLVD
    LAS VEGAS, NV 89107
    Agent for Service of Process
    NEWELL ALLEN JR
    6268 FILLY CT.
    ETIWANDA, CA 91739


    From Ebay: Starting Date Ending Date
    datsun-parts 02-May-07 Present
    ur-gelis 22-Oct-04 02-May-07
    bad-mfr 13-May-03 22-Oct-04
    absolutely-ghetto 04-Mar-03 13-May-03
    2602nv 21-Mar-02 04-Mar-03
    Last edited by hls30.com; 02-23-2009 at 11:06 PM.
    A Z is beautiful from any angle, I just happen to prefer to view from the drivers' seat!

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    Did you happen to get any more pictures?
    John Thomas Bertrand
    Model: HLS30 STD CPE 2DR
    Color: 305 LIGHT BLUE
    Serial: HLS30-298085
    Engine: L28-081399
    Port of Entry: 34 JACKSONVILLE
    Method of Transport: TRUCK
    Dealer to whom delivered:
    Brown Datsun INC
    213 E Liberty ST
    Lyons, GA 30436


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    Ebay no longer has the ad.
    Here is the wording of the original ad exactly as AL posted it on ebay, and the original photos.


    "Datsun Nissan Z 240Z Restored 1970 All New NOS Parts
    Up for bid is a Series 1 240Z. Production date of 3/70 it was one of the first 8500 made. This restoration includes over $25,000 in New and Genuine New Old Stock 240Z parts. Every last nut and bolt was removed, re-plated and restored. This Z was a personal project car that I took special pride in to make sure it was a true award winner. Nothing was left undone, completely restored interior includes and NEW Dash, New Door Panels, New Seats and New Carpet. All of the gauges including the clock work perfect.
    The factory spec rebuilt engine is a L24 block with a E31 head. Every part of the engine was disassembled and rebuilt to factory OEM specs. It has been professionally tuned and runs great. OEM 4 speed transmission is also rebuilt with all new parts.
    Overall every single part is brand new or restored to better then new condition.
    Please be advised that the paint work was not done to Concours requirements. If you wanted a true 100 point car you would need to have it repainted. During assembly it suffered a few bumps and bruises that will need to be fixed."


    Will
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    Last edited by hls30.com; 02-14-2009 at 12:21 AM.
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    and the rest...
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    Last edited by hls30.com; 02-14-2009 at 12:20 AM.
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    The "as delivered" photographs are here:
    http://www.classiczcars.com/photopos...y.php?cat=3526

    Have a look at them after reading the explicit description Al chose to advertise the car with.
    Will
    Last edited by hls30.com; 02-14-2009 at 12:35 AM.
    A Z is beautiful from any angle, I just happen to prefer to view from the drivers' seat!

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    Thanks for the update on the car. I hope Larry can get this thing in proper running order.
    John Thomas Bertrand
    Model: HLS30 STD CPE 2DR
    Color: 305 LIGHT BLUE
    Serial: HLS30-298085
    Engine: L28-081399
    Port of Entry: 34 JACKSONVILLE
    Method of Transport: TRUCK
    Dealer to whom delivered:
    Brown Datsun INC
    213 E Liberty ST
    Lyons, GA 30436


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    As a way of further illustrating the difference between the advertised condition of the car, and the actual condition of the car, I will be placing one of the photographs used to advertise this car with, followed by several of the pictures that I took of the same area to show the the details.

    1) Please note the fitament in the alignment of the PS headlight coveras the car was delivered.

    2) Please note the fitament of the front bumper, and the headlight Nacelle to the fender-the end of the bumper extends behind the pocket Nissan made for it in the sheet metal, the fender is not aligned to the Nacelle, and the end of the bumper is not attached as Nissan calls for in their undated Datsun Sports 240Z Factory Service Manual. The reason for this compound misfit will be shown later in the series on the engine compartment.

    3) Please note the incorrect windshield wipers, the artifacts under the paint around the windshield weatherstripping, and the drip rail trim, also note the condition of the stainless trim held by the weather strip. and the pits and scratches in the windshield-and the tape residue on the weatherstripping-extra was paid to remove all of the trim and the glass and repaint the car to Concours specification.

    4) Please note the condition of the door glass windlass, weatherstripping and the stainless trim holding it at the base of the window glass.

    5) Please note the artifacts under the paint around the quarter window opening, and the improper assembly and lack of restoration of the quarter window frame. The seals in the quarter windows were replaced, at reassembly, the left side and right side corner pieces were swapped, and hard water stains proving what was done-and not done were ignored.

    6) Please note the artifacts under the paint around the gas filler-this actually includes the two rubber bumpers that are there to cushion the door as it is closed. You can also not the tape line at the rear side marker-Extra was paid to remove all of the trim and the glass and repaint the car to Concours specification. The gas cap and attachment are silver instead of golden cad plate as they came from Nissan.

    One thing I could not get to show was a picture of the inside of the passenger door. The Concours winning Restoration shop handling the documentation and correction of this car determined that a correct repair to the door was not cost effective given that the structural reinforcement inside the door was compromised, the door was tweaked(as further evidenced by a broken hinge-to be pictured in another series) as well as seriously dented, and the number of hours required to correct the sheet metal properly was more expensive than finding a new door here South Georgia.

    The door is available for inspection and is being held.
    Will
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    Last edited by hls30.com; 02-15-2009 at 10:32 PM.
    A Z is beautiful from any angle, I just happen to prefer to view from the drivers' seat!

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    Will That sounds great would love to see side by side pictures of Al's work.
    John Thomas Bertrand
    Model: HLS30 STD CPE 2DR
    Color: 305 LIGHT BLUE
    Serial: HLS30-298085
    Engine: L28-081399
    Port of Entry: 34 JACKSONVILLE
    Method of Transport: TRUCK
    Dealer to whom delivered:
    Brown Datsun INC
    213 E Liberty ST
    Lyons, GA 30436


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    I guess the rule of letting this thread die does not apply to Will? Delete the posts from the ones that question, but not the ones that accuse?

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    It's not a court of law, merely an infomation thread for those who are familiar with Zs. I believe it is important in that it shows all Z owners and potential buyers (who use this site) the pitfalls of buying over the net (sight unseen).
    If there is more information in this story, I personally wish to read it and look forward to seeing all the stones overturned.
    Not too interested in seeing one of our more reputable members raked over the coals though.
    Cali 4/77
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    True as all of that may be, the point has long since been made.
    2004 Ford Ranger EDGE Supercab
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sailor Bob View Post
    I believe it is important in that it shows all Z owners and potential buyers (who use this site) the pitfalls of buying over the net (sight unseen).
    If there is more information in this story, I personally wish to read it and look forward to seeing all the stones overturned.
    I agree - the Subject of the thread is clearly marked and I fail to understand why people no longer interested in following the details - don't simply quit following the thread.

    The details are important to understand and educational for people new to the community. This is a very good example of what drives the "value" and the "costs" of different examples on the market.

    FWIW,
    Carl B.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stickerman View Post
    I guess the rule of letting this thread die does not apply to Will? Delete the posts from the ones that question, but not the ones that accuse?
    Letting a thread die due to a lack of interest, and killing it because someone else wants to - are two different situations.

    Personally, I agree with letting the thread die if and when everyone contributing to it, or wishing to follow it, does so.

    Honest questions as to the motivates of any Post or Reply should be allowed and answered. That should not be carried into personal arguments or individuals attempting to moderate the discussion when they weren't ask to do so. If honest questions were ask and answered - they shouldn't have been deleted.

    FWIW,
    Carl B.

  34. #34
    Registered User cunniwj's Avatar
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    I second Will but since Carl comment I guess I'll third.

  35. #35
    Admin Mike's Avatar
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    I'm a bit confused as to why this thread is such a huge problem... A classic Z was sold through Ebay. If the new owner wasn't happy with his purchase, he should be contacting Ebay or the proper facilities to get this resolved. Posting all of the "evidence" on this site and public bashing isn't something we want to be known to promote. I'm going to close this thread now. Thanks.

    Mike

    PS: The updates to the car do look great! Even if there is some purchase 'drama' I think the final product looks pretty awesome!
    Mike

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