F1 Race @ Indy

[240ZX]

Well, I'm guessing that every F1 fan is as pissed off as I am at MICHELIN's big tire F-up on Sunday's race (Ferrarri practice)! Six friggin car!!! Now thats a race.......right! Anyone care to share their thoughts on Sunday's big race???

[abas]

Apart from the understandably hacked off fans who were there and paid up for tickets/accomodation I wouldn't be surprised if this becomes old news fairly quickly as F1 supposedly barely registers in the US, the same as NASCAR and the like barely register in Europe. I am sure the lawsuits will be flying for a while to come though. It is not as if it was a money spinner for F1 as they were having to sell tickets at reduced rates to get the US public interested.

So there might not be a US grand prix next year? So? There are plenty of other countries and circuits who are gagging to get a place on the F1 calendar, and who knows what will happen in 2008 when the 'breakaway' F1 series starts.

But what a way to mess up the organisation of a grand prix. Whilst none of the possible solutions ( chicane, tyres from Spanish GP) would have been perfect within the rules ANY of them would have been better than what happened yesterday.

By the way I don't think it is good enough to blame Michelin. It is not as if they dumped this on the teams at one hours notice. There were a number of solutions that could have been tried that would have resulted in a race with a full grid but the politics got in the way.

[240ZX]

I tend to think that the entire "one set of tires rule" per race is pretty lame! Come on, this is supposed to be the top of the heap racing! Another point I've thought about is.....every time the FIA attempts to slow the cars down, the teams find a way to keep their speeds up (thanks to $$$ and technology) so, the way I see it, the only weak link in the chain are the old, too slow race tracks! How about building some tracks that can handle the latest and future speeds and technology. I'm quessing the fans would love to see, if only for a fraction of a second, cars whizzing by at 250mph +!!!

[ron carter]

Safety and politics never mix. I think that this will ruin the US F1 GP. People come from all over the world to see this race. I am sure that there will be plenty of fall out from this, although not necessarly in regards to F1 racing in the United States.

[jmanz6]

While not happy to see the outcome of the race (only six cars), I don't think the blame lies anywhere but on Michelin. The Bridgestone teams came with a tire that ran the track with no problems. Why should they make last minute changes to the track because one tire mfr didn't have a cometitive product. Had it been the Bridgestone tires that were failing, and there was a possibilty Ferrari would not be able to race, the "fans" (Schumacher haters) would have been happy to see those cars not there. I think it will be damaging to Michelin in their future with F1. They were right not "bend" any of the rules because the tires were failing. Obviously someone made a tire that would race all the way, so it can be done. This will probably spell the end of F1 at Indy, but there are other tracks in the US that would be much better for an F1 race anyway. Watkins Glenn would be awsome, Sears Point would be cool as well.

[ZCCOR#109]

Well, as was suggested on another site, just go to the Cleveland GP and register your choice of competition with your attendence at the most competitive road racing.

[Sweetpea]

I was at the race yesterday... I was disappointed for the first time with my favorite sport... I will continue to love it though. It just pisses me off, though.

Shame on Michelin for not testing/developing a tire that would perform at Indy... Bridgestone did their homework, no excuse for Michelin. No doubt, Michelin learned their lesson here...

Shame on the Michelin teams for trying to point fingers at the FIA and Ferrari... this further builds their "case" for a break-away series in 2008.

Shame on Bernie & Max for creating such turmoil in the sport through their back-door manipulation & strong-arm tactics. It will catch up with them soon... and yesterday may have been the beginning.

My question (and I am going out on a limb here)... has the one-tire-per-race rule actually fulfilled its intent? The cars aren't driving any slower. I would venture to say that tire changes would allow teams to keep fresher (hence safer) tires on their cars throughout the race.

[ZCCOR#109]

Big B owns the show, he make the $, then he has to take responsibility. Yes the tires failed. Then the ringmaster has to do something, cause the "show must go on".
It didn't.

B E is an A$%, the whole world knows it, and T George is his twin.

If you want to see real competition and real racing, go to the "Run-0ffs" in September. three days, 29 races, 29 champions. Get close to the action, walk the padock free, talk to the drivers and mechanics, all for $30.
See ya at Mid Ohio.

[Ricklandia]

HOLY....!!!!

I missed yesterday's race as our company had it's yearly Golf tournament (won it, BTW ). I am a long time F1 fan, having seen my first race some 30 years ago as a kid up in Watkins Glen, and look forward to watching them live no matter the time of day. I was hoping to avoid any press coverage (not hard to do here in the States) so that I could watch it's rebroadcast on Friday with the same enthusiasm I always do.

When I saw this thread, I couldn't resist taking a look. To be honest, I couldn't figure out WTF was going on, so I hit up F1's official website.

I still can't believe what I read.

I can appreciate Michelins position and concern for safety, but MAN did they screw up! And for the Michelin teams to even suggest adding a chicane is not only ridiculous, but also pretty selfish. None of them were shedding tears for Bridgestone/Ferrari earlier this year when they were struggling.

As for the fans blaming Ferrari, shut up and go back to watching NASCAR... please!

Some of the press were suggesting that this incident might kill F1 in the United States, and I honestly don't know why? The USGP has had some pretty good attendance since it's reinception at Indy. I'll admit it's not as good as some other countries/tracks, but OTOH, the IMS is collosal in size and has done a very good job filling seats. Dead? I don't think so. It's just sad that F1 in the US can't visit some of this country's truley great road circuits, but it's easy to understand why.

[Sweetpea]

If the race is held in Indy again (next year), there's going to be some really good seats available, for sweetheart prices I'm sure.

Michelin stock is down 7% today... doh!

[panchovisa]

The fans will vote on F1 with their wallets, and I can't imagine there was much of a line to buy 2006 tickets today (a huge line to get refunds though).

F1 is done at Indy and I can't imagine any other track promoter thinking that taking it's (Indy's) place is a good business decision.

[Ricklandia]

Not to toot my own horn here, but I've been suggesting the one tire rule for years (and gotten plenty of flames for it), and I'm glad it was adopted. I think it's exactly what F1 needed. Here's my logic:

1. We know that although F1 is considered by many to be the "pinnacle" of motor racing, a contest of the heavyweights where no-holds-barred is the norm, that's actually not true at all. If that were the case, F1 manufacturers would long ago have gotten rid of drivers completely and simply replaced them with computers, servos and the like. Think back to the early 90's and take the technology to it's logical end.

2. If you want to keep manufacturers interested in the sport (ie more makers, more teams) then you need to tailor the rules in such a way that they can actually benefit from them in the long run. In the days of old, it wasn't so hard for car makers to justify racing because things they learned on the track could and often did make thier way onto the production line. That includes the tire manufacturers. Now if you are asking the tire manufactuters to invest MILLIONS upon millions of dollars to develop the ultimate racing tire that only needs to last 20 laps, and is of virtually no practical value other than PR, it won't be long before they'll lose interest too. Now, ask them to compete in developing a tire that is not only fast but must LAST... see my point? THAT has real-world application.

3. In these days of super high downforce, super-goopy tires that are so tuned and specialized that they either work perfectly of not at all, what you end up with are 10-20 laps of racing followed by 50 laps of follow the leader because no one can risk racing "off-line". At some of these tracks, roadside marbles are so bad that even 1/2 carwidth offline and your spinning. What's the challenge in all that?

IMHO, the "One Tire" rule brings back the skill and strategy of racing that F1 has lacked for a long time. I'll give you a case in point:

Kimi Raikkonen's finish (or lack thereof) at the EuropeanGP just a few weeks ago. Raikkonen's last lap tire failure and subsequent loss was a direct result of flatspotting (badly) his tire mid-race. Driver error = Driver loss. Simple.

I think it would have been a true treat to see the likes of Ayrton Senna four wheel drifting a F1 car around. Or Schumaker for that matter. These drivers have skills most people can't comprehend, why not let us SEE them, instead of burying them inside of tens or even thousands of seconds on a laptime sheet.

If it were me (cough, cough) I'd give 'em just one set of tires, rain OR shine, every three races. Since when do YOU change your tires every time it rains? Hmmm?

One mans (humble) opinion, that's all.

[jmanz6]

It's sad, but pobably true. F1 may not be back at Indy and may be done in the US. There are other tracks it should be at instead of Indy that wold be better for F1. I hope this isn't the end of F1 in the US.

I have to disagree with your statement about it not being a good b usiness decision to bring F1 to a different track. It was not the track's fault. It was the tire mfr not having a tire that was able to compete. Bridgestone brought the right tire. If Michelin didn't bring the right equipment, oh well, they must suffer the results. It was bad show for the fans, and was bad for the teams to want to change the rules so they could race. You MUST play by the rules all the time, not just when it works out for you. If your equipment isn't right, then too bad. The teams running the Bridgestone tires made it thru the whole race on the same set of tires, as is within the rules. It was a true let down, and a horrible spectacle, but that happens sometimes. The guys from Minardi and Jordan were sure happy though. Good thing they were running Bridgestone.

[Sweetpea]

Ricklandia,
Thanks for responding... you've validated your opinion very well. I cannot disagree with you as I didn't take as much into consideration as I posed the question.

[240znz]

Food for thought. I'm not jumping to Michelin's defence here but....

Didn't the track get re laid after the 500?
I heard the new surface was too slick so they cut 1 to 2mm grooves in it combat the problem.
Doesn't Bridgestone supply the tyres for the entire Indy Car field. So they new what was required to change the side wall so it could handle the extra heat.

It was too late for Michelin when they found the problem on the Friday.

Internal bickering between the upper levels of F1 prevented the inclusion of a chicane that would have allowed the show to go on (slow down the entry speed to the banking and therefore side wall loading). The last qualifying was done and Michelin had no choice to do what they did.

Shame on F1 is correct. Complete blame on Michelin no.

[26th-Z]

A couple of good articles coming out today from Fox Sports.
http://msn.foxsports.com/motor/story/3704474
http://msn.foxsports.com/motor/story/3704212

[EricB]

Manufacturing defects do happen as stringent as QA is in F1. Maybe what happened to the Michelin tires could be traced to something like that. It's interesting to note that according to the Speed TV commentators the second emergency set of tires Michelin had made for Sunday's race also apparently exhibited the same problem.

I don't understand why faced with the possibility that 14 cars would not participate in the race Max and Bernie couldn't for once make an exception and institute some kind of "coned" chicane" before T13 to reduce speed through it as the 7 Michelin teams suggested. Making an exception to the FIA rules would surely have been less of a public relations snafu than to see 14 cars decide not to race making a mockery out of the whole event itself. I for one am completely on the side of the 7 Michelin teams.

What if they had raced and god forbid someone HAD had a bad accident, one even worse than RSchumacher's from last year.... I'm sure people would be hoping today that those teams would have chosen not to race as they did...

What amazes me though with the exception of the VIPs in the boxes with access to TV coverage and such it seems that no announcement was made to the fans in attendance as to why 14 cars peeled off the warmup lap as they did. No wonder they were so stunned and then pissed.... but still you figure someone could have made some kind of announcement??? I'm sure that had such an announcement been made people would have still been upset but at least they wouldn't have started throwing things at the 6 cars that WERE on the track and travelling in excess of 200mph... Can you imagine if one of those full water bottles of aluminum cans happened to hit Schumi in the head as he drove down the front straight??? Totally ridiculous and irresponsible on behalf of the fans in attendance.

I wouldn't be surprised if this kills the USGP for next year and several years into the future.

-e

[Bambikiller240]

Michelin should be fined and put on probation for coming to the USGP so ill prepared that it's tires were unsafe to compete.

The FIA should have allowed a chicane between T12 and T13, even if it meant that the race became a non-points paying event.

I disagree that the 1 set of tires per GP rule is good for the sport. In the example given in a previous post, if Kimi had trashed his tire and had to come in for an additional pit stop, his race would have been run anyway.

I was at the race yesterday... I was disappointed for the first time with my favorite sport... I will continue to love it though. It just pisses me off, though.

Shame on Michelin for not testing/developing a tire that would perform at Indy... Bridgestone did their homework, no excuse for Michelin. No doubt, Michelin learned their lesson here...

Shame on the Michelin teams for trying to point fingers at the FIA and Ferrari... this further builds their "case" for a break-away series in 2008.

Shame on Bernie & Max for creating such turmoil in the sport through their back-door manipulation & strong-arm tactics. It will catch up with them soon... and yesterday may have been the beginning.
............

Well, I agree with most of what you said, but Bernie and the FIA had an obligation to put on a show and they let it go all to hell. Michelin is not blameless, but there were options that could have been used to ensure a safe race for all drivers, and a show for the paying (and non-paying) fans

B E is an A$%, the whole world knows it, and T George is his twin.......

Amen!

Shame on them all. Michelin, Bernie & Max, and the FIA.

[sopwith21]

Try this one:

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dl...0103/506200369

IMHO the blame lies squarely on the FIA. Michelin goofed up, but they had the decency to admit it. They asked the FIA to install the chicane which would allow their drivers to race and even offered to start Michelin-shod cars at the back of the field and surrender race points. The FIA still refused, and let race fans around the world watch six cars instead. That's pitiful.

F1 has burned every bridge they've crossed in the USA. They're unapproachable, arrogant and difficult in every possible manner, and have managed to convince themselves that we're lucky they're here. This is but an extension of the petty bickering they've done in Europe for years. As far as I'm concerned, they can go back where they came from. If F1 is the self-proclaimed "pinnacle" of the sport, I'd rather race go karts.

BTW, somewhere, somehow, this will end up being all Tony George's fault. You heard it here first.

[Bambikiller240]

BTW, somewhere, somehow, this will end up being all Tony George's fault. You heard it here first.

You won't hear that from my lips. I don't like him, period. But he's blameless on this issue, IMO. He and his Mum even had the decency to boycott the farcical trophy ceremony.

He should file suit against the FIA and Bernie in order to recoup funds to refund ticket sales.

[SJGREEN71]

I think Michelelin did the right thing. This isn't the 50's anymore where drivers were expected to die for the sport. 9 out of 10 teams agreed to a change in the track layout that would keep speeds to a safe level. FIA and Ferrari refused, and you end up with a dull race and guess who (Ferrari) taking first and second place.

No wonder F1 has so few fans in the US, however, if Danica Patrick had been in the race no one would have noticed that the field was down by 14 entries.

[panchovisa]

Well Sopwith and I finaly agree!
No it is not Tony George's fault. But that said, I do believe the ticket buyers entered into an agreement with the speedway as the promoter of the race. The ticket buyers had no such contract with F1, the FIA, Michelin, or as the FIA calls them now "the Michelin 7".

Tony and the Speedway had a contract with the "Almighties". It is TG who can directly recover his damages from them.

I belive it would be fitting of TG to give refunds for the tickets (much cheaper than the total cost paid by the fans), and to use that refunded amount as clear and proven damages against the "Almighties".

TG would come across as a hero to the racing public and he could use his "power" for good to hold the untouchables to justice.

The other option for the only damaged parties (the fans) would be a class action against the "almighties" AND THE SPEEDWAY. In this case Tony gets unfairly lumped with the guilty parties. Also, in a class action some legal beagle will be including hotel rooms, air fare, emotional hardship and probably beer and lap dances.

By the latest news it looks like Max and Bernie are already to PROFIT from their culpibility by fining the "Michelin 7" , who by the way will be M & B's competition in 2008.

[Ricklandia]

I still don't understand how anyone can blame Tony George or IMS for any of this? Believe you me, I an NOT a big supporter of TG although I do give him credit for bringing back F1 to the USA after a long and embarrassing abscence here. In fact, looking back on it, even when it WAS here, some of those races were pretty pathetic...Las Vegas parking lot???

Anyway, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this the EXACT track layout as last year? And aren't these the same teams that were here last year? Face it, Michelin blew it. I don't blame the teams for not fielding thier cars if they thought it was unsafe, but don't blame the FIA for not bending the rules just to fix your own errors. If the teams that refused to race have any beef, it's with Michelin, not the FIA or IMS.

I merely suggest that the "Michelin" teams grow some nads, and take responsibility for thier error, stop crying and DEAL WITH IT. This crybaby approach is what makes F1 so unappealing to so many.

The unfortunate participants in all of this are the fans, and unfortunately nothing will likely be done to compensate them for this debacle. If the FIA is truely intent on making Michelin and/or "the 7" pay for thier bellyaching, they should levy fines and send the collection to the ticketholders at IMS.

[ZCCOR#109]

It is racing without the fans, but it "don't make any money" so we have fans.

If the show is crappy, there won't be any fans. F1 and FIA will figure this out in the US next year.

NASCAR has figured it out. The rules are for the show.

So what if half the field is out. So what if I don't ever go.

I don't go to Indy at all any more because they don't race in the rain except F1, and I'm not wasting my time to come home again because it rained. Been there and done that.

I'll take showroom stock in the rain at Mid Ohio any day over Indy.

[sopwith21]

I don't go to Indy at all any more because they don't race in the rain

I'm not sure we can make a sensible case for racing on an oval with walls at 200+ mph in the wet. I also refrain from faulting people for not jumping off tall buildings and playing Russian roulette.

I'll take showroom stock in the rain at Mid Ohio any day over Indy.

One way or another, we were bound to get there.

[26th-Z]

Another good article about the troubles within Formula One. See how Sunday's event relates to the big picture. I, frankly, would have liked to have been there. Formula One history is in the making. Read all about it.
http://www.cbs.sportsline.com/autoracing/story/8581180

[abas]

If the show is crappy, there won't be any fans. F1 and FIA will figure this out in the US next year.

I don't think any promoters in the US will want to take on the US GP next year, unless they are going to do it as a loss leader. They'll almost have to give tickets away

[sopwith21]

Rant mode "on."

F1 needs to reconsider its self-proclaimed title of "world championship."

They compete on only two types of surfaces, prepared road courses and a precious few street courses, so virtually no versatility is demanded of their drivers. Their drivers are primarily an assortment of filthy rich kids whose parents bought their rides, their governing body is so arrogant that they'd rather run six cars than make a minor track alteration, their cars are supposedly the most advanced on earth but they can't even handle one turn that Indycars make four times per lap, they constantly rewrite and re-interpret rules post facto, and they treat the mecca of American motorsports like their outhouse.

Sometimes they don't even show up, yet they still want to proclaim themselves as a "world championship." Of what, no one is really sure, but it can't have anything to do with racing.

I love racing, but the problem with Formula One is that they act so much like Formula One. By the time they get over their fascination with themselves and realize that they've destroyed their own sport it will be too late. Its a shame, too, because once every few years they'd put on a nice race.

[Inf]

I have to agree, that Michelin deserves most of the blame here. They didn't do their homework here, and as a result they put out an inadequate product.

However, Formula 1 is a spectator sport : they(F1, FIA) had an obligation to put on a valid show for all those people who took time off work and spent money on tickets, travel, and lodging. If they had indeed put in a chicane and ran the course, I would agree that it should be a no-points race. FIA should not sanction the race if the course was changed at the last second because some teams failed to have the proper equipment to race safely. That would hardly be fair.

Some teams might not race under non-sanctioned circumstances, if they were overly concerned with the overall championship - i.e. "why 'use up' the car for no reason other than showing our logos?" , but 6 or 7 teams would be better than 3.

I only watched for about 10 minutes before turning the TV off.

Time will tell what this does to F1 in the US. Normally a formula 1 event would never make headlines here in the US, but i've seen this debacle being reported on the front pages of many mainstream newswebsites. Certainly does not bode well.

[HS30-H]

F1 needs to reconsider its self-proclaimed title of "world championship."

Har har har har har.
So does the "World Championship" of baseball.

They compete on only two types of surfaces, prepared road courses and a precious few street courses, so virtually no versatility is demanded of their drivers.

Yeah. All of them are complete idiots. Send 'em out on coarse sand, dried up salt, crater-strewn lunar surface and wet snow. Then we'll see who can drive worth a damn, eh Sopwith? ( let's not mention rain though, in case those extremely talented oval drivers get antsy.... ).

Their drivers are primarily an assortment of filthy rich kids whose parents bought their rides..........

Yeah! Primarily. Like, er - two or three of them. Not like any other form of motorsport, eh?

....and they treat the mecca of American motorsports like their outhouse.

Whoa! Selling the "Motorsport Capital of the World" a bit short there aren't you? Those guys obviously never even realised they were in the capital of motorsport, in the capital of the World. The fools!

........ yet they still want to proclaim themselves as a "world championship." Of what, no one is really sure, but it can't have anything to do with racing.

It's obvious. What they need is sopwith21! Either that or Danica......

[serious head on] Sir, if this debacle hadn't taken place in the Capital Of The World then I'd bet you wouldn't even have noticed it. Meanwhile, the world still rotates around you.
Personally, I'm more interested in what went on at a rather more important and historic 24 hour race in France that I wasn't able to attend this year. I think you'll find the 'Vettes did quite well this time.........[/serious head on].

Loxahatchee over and out.

[abas]

As a 'European' you will forgive me for being at least a little partisan. I agree the FIA et al have made a major blunder here but the series is already in the process of being broken up with the breakaway series due to start in 2008. Perhaps that is what will really kick Bernie and Max into touch - if they are still around.

Rant mode "on."

F1 needs to reconsider its self-proclaimed title of "world championship."

Well the series does still race on 18 circuits in 16 countries ( I think). I doubt many other series have a better claim to the title 'world championship' in that respect.

They compete on only two types of surfaces, prepared road courses and a precious few street courses, so virtually no versatility is demanded of their drivers.

And driving round and round an oval does demand lots of versatility does it?

Their drivers are primarily an assortment of filthy rich kids whose parents bought their rides

I would guess the percentage number of rich kids in formula 1 is probably not much different to the number of rich kids in Nascar and the like

their governing body is so arrogant that they'd rather run six cars than make a minor track alteration

Yep I'd agree with that!!!! Anything is better than the blanket suggestion that Michelin are responsible for the whole debacle on Sunday.

I have to say I don't really think that F1 and the US market has ever mixed very well. You have your own series' over there and F1 is just one of many. In Europe and a lot of the rest of the world F1 is the premier series.

[Brett240]

Here are the charges the 7 michie teams are on trial for:


The FIA informed each team individually that they had committed the following transgressions:

* “Failed to ensure that you had a supply of suitable tyres for the race."

* "Wrongfully refused to allow your cars to start the race."

* "Wrongfully refused to allow your cars to race subject to a speed restriction at one corner, which was safe for such tyres as you had available."
* "Combined with other teams to make a demonstration damaging to the image of Formula 1 by pulling into the pits immediately before the start of the race."

* "Failed to notify the stewards of your intention not to race.”

check out charge 3. does this mean that the teams refused to race even if there was a chicane??? this would point out it was not the FIA to blame here but the teams themselves....

[Inf]

I believe the "speed restriction" refers to having the drivers on Michelin tires just slow down before turn 13 - utterly retarded.

That would cause all sorts of problems, i.e. if a Bridgestone driver was just behind a Michelin driver who suddenly started to brake.

Drivers will do what it takes to try and get a win, and if they see a chance to pass they will likely take the risk. I think much of the racing comes down to instinct of the driver, which cannot typically change 5 minutes before the race starts.

The whole thing is really stupid, and i'm hoping this future breakaway from formula 1 puts an end to the retarded way the championship is actually run.

[sopwith21]

Well the series does still race on 18 circuits in 16 countries

I thought a world champion meant that someone was, overall, the best at what they did, not merely an observation of where they did it.

One would think that a world driving champion would be tested on road courses, short ovals, high banked ovals, street courses as well as large ovals. The CART series reflected this pretty well in the mid to late 90's and was probably closer to a genuine world driving championship than anything seen recently. Now that the IRL is adding both street and road courses, it may soon challenge for the title as well.

Regardless, the point is that F1 is imploding and it didn't start last weekend in Indy... that was just the latest episode of a sad, ongoing soap opera. The one thing that could save the series is the one thing that seems most beyond their grasp... humility.

[sopwith21]

Send 'em out on coarse sand, dried up salt, crater-strewn lunar surface and wet snow. Then we'll see who can drive worth a damn, eh Sopwith?

Think they'd show up?

[26th-Z]

OR a woman driver! A woman driver would save Formula One! She saved Indy!

[Walter Moore]

If the Indianapolis Motor Speedway drops the USGP, then I believe that F1 is finished in the United States. Look at the history:

1. When Tony George brought the FIA to Indy in 2000, it had been nearly a decade since there had been a USGP.

2. Every other promoter who tried to run a F1 event in the United States essentially went bankrupt trying.

3. Many (if not most) of the fans at the USGP were not Americans. They traveled here from all over the world, because it was one of the lowest cost F1 races.

Ticket prices for the USGP start at $75 (US) for the cheap seats, and with only 1/5 as many fans as either the Indianapolis 500, or the Brickyard 400, hotel rooms are easy to get. Yesterday morning on the radio there was an interview with a couple who came here from Poland, because they said it was the only F1 race on the schedule that they could afford to attend.

I could be wrong. I have been before. But I still believe that if the F1 has truly failed in Indianapolis, it is dead so far as the United States is concerned.

[abas]

* "Wrongfully refused to allow your cars to race subject to a speed restriction at one corner, which was safe for such tyres as you had available."

check out charge 3. does this mean that the teams refused to race even if there was a chicane??? this would point out it was not the FIA to blame here but the teams themselves....

Brett240 I think this refers to the ridiculous suggestion put forward by the FIA that the cars should drive 'slower' through turn 13 to save their tyres without a chicane having to be put in

[abas]

2. Every other promoter who tried to run a F1 event in the United States essentially went bankrupt trying.

I could be wrong. I have been before. But I still believe that if the F1 has truly failed in Indianapolis, it is dead so far as the United States is concerned.

I am sure there will be pressure on the teams/FIA to at least try to run a US GP next year from the sponsors, some/all of whom are in F1 for exposure based on where the races are run. If all of a sudden there is no US GP surely some of the sponsors will be unhappy.

Whether someone will throw shedloads of money at this to try and rescue it will be interesting to see.

Perhaps the way to rescue this one will be for the breakaway series to try and run a GP in 2008. OK it may not be 'F1' as such but it will incorporate some/most of the existing teams and drivers, and hopefully be without the bureaucratic management and baggage of the old F1.

[panchovisa]

After all the arguments I've read about how the "rules must be followed" comes this excerpt from the first class action lawsuit against the "Almighties" + the Speedway:

QUOTE: "'The alleged 'race' participated by just three teams did not constitute a true grand prix race under FIA and Formula One rules in that the race was started with an insufficient number of participants,' the lawsuit declared"

So much for Max staking out the "My hands were tied", "rules are rules", "they were warned about durability requirements", (add nauseum) territory. The race should never have gotten a green flag as the lack of entries made it inelegible for World Championship status.

[panchovisa]

Please think back (old timers are at an advantage here) about all the "classic" race tracks that the FIA/F1 Drivers Association/Others have insisted that needed chicanes to be used again for racing.

Spa, LeMans, Monza, Daytona, and now turn one at Indy.

Why was it so impossible?

Unfair to Bridgestone, Ferarri, etc., but not mentioned with any substance prior to the fallout of stupidity were the fans in attendence, the television audiance, or the sponsers who foot the outragous bills!

But NOBODY is happy now, including those that could have changed the events!!!!

All the big shots remind me of small time pimps. Makes Cliff Claven seem a real man!

[ZCCOR#109]

Spa, LeMans, Monza, Daytona, and now turn one at Indy.>

Very good point.
As I stated, you do what it takes to put on the show. FIA...F1 FAILED!!! let the court room confrontation commence.

[panchovisa]

Please read this interview with Paul Stoddard whose Minardi's took part in the race. Very, very interesting reading!

http://www.planet-f1.com/features/ra...ry_20035.shtml

[abas]

Please read this interview with Paul Stoddard whose Minardi's took part in the race. Very, very interesting reading!

http://www.planet-f1.com/features/ra...ry_20035.shtml

Interesting reading indeed. Thanks for posting that. Perhaps we will seeing history repeating itself like when Jean Marie Balestre was booted out of the presidency of the FIA because a lot of the big players in the sport had lost confidence in him, and replaced with Max Mosely.

[Bambikiller240]

Michelin to Refund ALL 120,000 (2005) Indy F1 Tickets

[ecp48]

Sorry guys, I came late to this thread, but a couple of thoughts.

Michelin's offer to repay the fans is the smart move by the company at fault!
It is a good PR decision.

FIA has continually stepped on their putz in this matter.

The regulating body should have stopped the race due to the safety issue, it shouldn't have had to fall to the Teams. The chicane was the logical fix, but FIA has lost track of the ball. They still think they own the game!

[sopwith21]

Very true. At some point someone needed to step back and look at the big picture... F1's failing reputation worldwide, its failure to capture the American marketplace and one hundred thousand or so fans and millions worldwide who expected a show.

The fact that no one associated with F1 could get past their own personal agenda long enough to consider the big picture is indicative of the root cause behind the decline of the entire series. Its sad that the party that started the problem - Michelin - is also the only one who seemed truly committed to finding a solution.

[panchovisa]

Good for Michelin to be the first to put money back into the fans picked pockets.

Latest I read is that 7 of the 10 teams and Max and Bernie have offered to run again in the fall. The three teams that did run would not perform again for free (I'm sooo suprised!).

Thank goodness Tony gave a flat no answer.

Let's see now, two half-assed races make a whole?

Sounds like pre-court manuvering by the FIA, F1, and Michelin 7.